View Full Version : When did civilian AR15s get popular?
Caskalefan
03-27-12, 15:28
I presume that back in the 1960's citizens were buying AR15s for personal use. I doubt they were as popular then as they are now though?
How much did they cost compared to bolt action rifles of the time?
crusader377
03-27-12, 22:48
Although I think the AR15 was relatively popular in the civilian market in the 1980s and 1990s, I think there popularity really exploded in the last 5-6 years particularly since 2008-09 timeframe when they truly became mainstream.
I think the trend really began in the late 1990's or early 2000's, with the expiration of the federal assault weapons ban in 2004 really adding fuel to the fire. Simply looking at historical (public) ATF production numbers for known AR manufactures would give you a pretty good idea of how many guns are being made now compared to 10, 20, 30+ years ago. It's not perfect since only calibers are specified, not model names, but it's something.
Edited to add: I bought my first ban-era AR15 when I was 18 years old. I brought it to my buddy's house to show his father, who is big into hunting and sport shooting. He took one look at the rifle and told me, "get that piece of shit out of my house." Fast forward to today and he's calling me for advice on which new AR or accessories to buy... :lol:
It seems to me their popularity first jumped just AFTER the 1994 AWB. I bought an Olympic Arms (hey I lived in Olympia) in about 1991 (?). After the ban I sold it for a small profit as I wasn't into the AR so much then and bought my second Garand. But the AWB definitely increased its popularity. Sort of a thumb our nose at the attempted ban.
I think the second big jump was after the 2004 sunset of the ban and many more young men had military exposure to the M16/M4 and prices for near mil spec came way down.
The AWB boosted sales and interest in virtually all "assault rifles". Shops that had been sitting on guns like G3s, FALs, AKs, and ARs suddenly had them flying off the shelves. Nobody had ever thought those guns might be restricted and everyone just assumed that if they ever needed or wanted one they'd just trot down to the gunshop and buy one.
Enter the ban, and virtually everyone assumed that not only would it be renewed at the end but that it would be made WORSE, and people started buying everything they could get their hands on. I worked at a gunshop from '97-'00 (I think, definitely worked through y2k) and saw this firsthand as we were doing steady business in neutered "assault rifles" and you were big king dingaling if you had a preban.
Just like Obama getting elected did more for the gun bidness nearly 4 years ago than any other factor, the AWB is really what laid the groundwork for that and put the idea of "I may not always be able to buy this" into people's minds (much of which is simply an excuse to accumulate more shit, but that's another thread I'm sure).
y2k didn't help either. I was selling guns to guys that would come in and say things like "well, I don't really believe in guns, but if something happens I want to have one". Much like today's paranoia, "preppers", etc. is fueling gun sales. A friend at work just asked me yesterday what it would take for him to get two ARs and associated accessories. He's the furthest thing from a "gun guy" you'd ever meet. Not an anti, just not interested, and here he is wanting two ARs.
I think it's great, as it's what fuels the market. If Larue, Daniel Defense, BCM, etc. didn't have a commercial market to fuel them along with their desire to make money, we wouldn't see 1/10 the innovation we see from these guys. They need to come out with New-Hotness so they can get you to buy it and replace Old-Busted. It's capitalism at it's best, with the desire to make money fueling innovation. Every jagoff that buys the latest and greatest to stick in his safe is encouraging those companies to make more and better so the 1% will have better products when they actually go to the range.
I bought my first one in 02 when I turned 18. They were not very popular in my area at the time. I had a hard time getting my hands on one, and most poeple thought I was crazy for buying one. Now of course, they have them on the shelves at walmart.
The AWB boosted sales and interest in virtually all "assault rifles". Shops that had been sitting on guns like G3s, FALs, AKs, and ARs suddenly had them flying off the shelves. Nobody had ever thought those guns might be restricted and everyone just assumed that if they ever needed or wanted one they'd just trot down to the gunshop and buy one.
Enter the ban, and virtually everyone assumed that not only would it be renewed at the end but that it would be made WORSE, and people started buying everything they could get their hands on. I worked at a gunshop from '97-'00 (I think, definitely worked through y2k) and saw this firsthand as we were doing steady business in neutered "assault rifles" and you were big king dingaling if you had a preban.
Just like Obama getting elected did more for the gun bidness nearly 4 years ago than any other factor, the AWB is really what laid the groundwork for that and put the idea of "I may not always be able to buy this" into people's minds (much of which is simply an excuse to accumulate more shit, but that's another thread I'm sure).
y2k didn't help either. I was selling guns to guys that would come in and say things like "well, I don't really believe in guns, but if something happens I want to have one". Much like today's paranoia, "preppers", etc. is fueling gun sales. A friend at work just asked me yesterday what it would take for him to get two ARs and associated accessories. He's the furthest thing from a "gun guy" you'd ever meet. Not an anti, just not interested, and here he is wanting two ARs.
I think it's great, as it's what fuels the market. If Larue, Daniel Defense, BCM, etc. didn't have a commercial market to fuel them along with their desire to make money, we wouldn't see 1/10 the innovation we see from these guys. They need to come out with New-Hotness so they can get you to buy it and replace Old-Busted. It's capitalism at it's best, with the desire to make money fueling innovation. Every jagoff that buys the latest and greatest to stick in his safe is encouraging those companies to make more and better so the 1% will have better products when they actually go to the range.
This report corroborates many of your assumptions: http://nssf.org/share/PDF/MSR_Consumer_Report%202010.pdf
Let me offer a little "older" perspective. I graduated HS (California) in 1986 (I was 17) and I enlisted into the Army. Some of my friends (like minded military types) had Colt AR15's, some had shotguns and a few had pistols given to them by relatives. "Assault weapons" were not considered a big deal. One could go to the local store and purchase a long gun (any flavor) of the shelf with no waiting period.
In fact some of the best gun shows on the west coast were located in California and the show at Pomona was one of the largest.
Back then a new HK91 could be purchased for around 650.00 dollars. AK's were still in their infancy so to speak and were often times "oohed and ahhed" over. FN FAL's were also in abundance as were Springfield M1A's, and lots of other goodies.
At this time the infamous machine gun ban was about 3 months old and prices were definitely affected (no big deal as they were not legal in California).
The next major disaster that hit was the Stockton Schoolyard Massacre. Legislators did their usual and reacted by passing the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act in 1989. This was one of the first attacks on a state level against firearms and they went after them by name and features. It also proved to be a later model of the 1994 Clinton AWB.
In 1999 (as I recall) California modified some of the existing laws to attack even more firearms.
Once these various bans started taking place I believe that the awareness level went up and assault weapons in general became more and more in demand. You then had the GWB senior 1989 Assault Weapons Import Ban signed under executive order.
As the 1990's progressed we then see the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban. People are now fully aware that they better buy it now or forget it if this law passes. Prices increased and sales were very brisk as I recall. The media did a great job of highlighting several shootings and demonizing firearms.
For a good ten years the entire industry went stagnant (IMO) and there was alot of emphasis being placed on compact pistols for CCW. During the years after the 1994 AWB concealed carry advocates and lobbying groups fought hard to strengthen and pass more and more CCW laws across the country. Obviously nothing was going to happen on the assault weapons front until the sunset.
Fast forward to 2001 and the U.S now finds itself in a war in Afghanistan. Several small companies are popping up and the increase in tactical gear, gizmos and accessories starts to take off. Then a few years later we find ourselves in combat in Iraq and shortly thereafter the AWB sunsets. Things really start to take off in all directions. We have numerous AR manufacturers coming online, accessories, military/tactical gear, you name it. Between the sunset and the 2 wars it was probably the best thing for the gun industry in decades.
The one constant during all of this is this. There were always those that had their so-called "evil black rifles" and were always believers of the 2nd Amendment. We just weren't in the limelight for everyone to see.
The_War_Wagon
03-29-12, 08:20
The KLIN - TON I AWB really accelerated interest in it, since it was AMERICAN made.
To refresh my memory, when did the Colt patent expire? Multiple manufacturers definitely helped sales climb.
I think There was a big jump in interest in 2008
Interesting read.
I never got into guns till 2006, and I hadn't even thought of AR's till 2008.
I owned my first AR in 1989 won in a poker game, the same year I bought a pair of HK91's for $400 a piece. Fast forward to 1995. The AWB raised the prices on all of these firearms in the Alaska market to about 5 times their initial purchase price. I was sitting on $6000.00 of firearms that I barely used, just got married, had a kid on the way, and needed to build a house. Liquidating these rifles (for cash) resulted in paying for the foundation of my current house.
In my neighborhood the HK's were all the rage in the late 80's. We live in an area the is frequented by bears and a semi-auto .308 was considered a good personal protection firearm by many. In fact, I packed mine for 5 years for that specific purpose while working in the woods. The AR15 was considered a pop-gun in a time when few folks worried about SHTF or home defense uses. I liked my Colt well enough at the time, but really didn't have the connection with it that I had with my HK. Also, at that time you could buy NATO surplus 7.62 ammo for the same price as 5.56. The AR was also considered inferior when it came to reliability. We didn't have the internet at that time to learn more about it, and that really is a big reason I didn't learn much about the AR-15 system until recently.
I agree with Iraqgunz, even in Alaska the semi-auto rifle market was stagnant from 1995-2005. I went through most of my handgun training and CCW training in this time.
Right after the sunset of the AWB in 2004 we saw a wave of cheap AK's and SKS's hit the Alaska market. I never could wrap my head around these rifles, so I stayed in my handgun/hunting rifle world.
In 2011, I joined the "craze" after taking a Redback One pistol class. There was a lot of carbine talk during the down times and it really brought back my interest in semi-auto rifles. I spent several months learning all I could through the internet (mostly here) and personal contacts that knew the rifles (brother-in-law is active duty Army). I chose a decent M-4 type rifle (DDM4 V7) and am learning more about it every day.
Barry in IN
04-24-12, 23:17
I bought my first AR in 1984 (for $412.90). I had to order it because nobody stocked them back then except a couple of really big stores. They just didnt sell, and the typical shop couldn't tie up that much in a gun that wouldn't move. The few wanting a rifle like that wanted HK91s because that is what Mel Tappan said to get (they were $515). eir
That is how it stayed for a while. There were a couple of ARs around, but not many.
For an example: I went to a big gun show in late 85 or early 86 and spent all my money early. At the last table was a guy selling used 20-rd AR mags. The price was 50 cents each or 3/$1.00. Seriously. I dug through my change and came up with enough to buy four. He was thrilled. That was the only item he had, and he said I was his biggest sale of the day. Can you imagine 3/$1 AR mags moving slow? They did.
In late 1987, I bought an M1A. It wasn't unheard of, but not a real common purchase. It was one of the few I had seen new in the rack for sale, again because of lack of demand. Aside from Highpower snooters, there weren't many around.
In 1989, after the Stockton CA shooting, the first ban talk started.
Sales jumped...for a while.
People I knew who had completely ignored them were buying. I had a pair of Eagle Arms lowers that I bought when Mark Westrom set up a table at the Indy 1500 show, and soon after that I couldn't find parts in stock to complete them. Quality Parts (pre-Bushmaster) had a toll-free number for legislative updates.
I may remember it wrong, but it seemed like although there was a new ban rumor almost daily, when the ban talk ended, it ended kinda quick. Sales dropped off too.
They weren't quite as unpopular as before, maybe because every gun magazine (who ignored them for 25 years) had been running cover stories on how great they were. It was right in here when we really started seeing goodies for them. There were accessories before, but now there were things for every need and not just for Dr John Rourke wannabees. I was active in Highpower then, and this was when they started taking hold there, largely from the availabilty of better barrels, free float handguards, and other things. I remember around 1990, the Highoower league I shot in was still giving a special award to the high AR shooter, just to encourage people to use them (I recall just two who did). I took a couple years off from HP after 1991, and when I came back, half the line was ARs and growing.
So the seed was planted. When the 1994 "Crime Bill" passed, it was the final kick in the butt. People had been more aware and accustomed to them after the 1889 scare, accessories were available, they were getting attention from even the old fudds by winning in Highpower, so the1994 law really made people see how much they "needed" one. While all you need to do to sell anything is tell people they can't have it, the AR sold itself after people really started buying them and trying them out.
So yeah, the 89 and 94 ban scares are what made the AR in my view.
Things went crazy as soon as the AWB expired.
RogerinTPA
04-25-12, 13:41
I presume that back in the 1960's citizens were buying AR15s for personal use. I doubt they were as popular then as they are now though?
How much did they cost compared to bolt action rifles of the time?
Agreed. My Dad, was in SF during that time period, as an "advisor" and carried one of the first M-16/AR-15s in VN, sporting camos courtesy of Sears and Roebuck department store. He bought one, and several other VN Vets and Civies on the block, bought them after they went shooting with him. During the 70's, ARs, AKs, and FALS were all the rage, and was mostly fueled by SOF magazine (I read as a kid) or all the other Merc movies, the Wild Geese, Dark of the Sun, Dogs of War, with exploits of Mercs in VN, Rhodesia, and other places in Africa or in Central America. In the 80s around military bases, you could rarely find a military person who didn't own an AR-15, Mini-14 (ala the A-Team TV series) or a SPAS-12 shotty.
Regardless of the era, civilians will always want what the military is currently using and/or, the next great hotness in firearms.
Things went crazy as soon as the AWB expired.
This, combined with the upcoming election at the time. There seemed to be a huge jump in interest between late 2003 and late 2004.
I bought my first Colt in 1990. I lived in a small town in Arkansas, The shop owner had to order it. I think the cost was $830. Their were not a lot of AR in the Ozarks back then (at least no one talked a bout them). Now, I think everybody and thier brother has at least one.
The AWB was the catalyst for the popularity explosion in AR rifles. Nothing makes people want something like having someone else tell them that they can't have it. :nono:
Robb Jensen
04-27-12, 00:01
I assembled my first AR in 1987. It was with a Essential Arms cast lower and many parts from "Quality Parts" which later became 'Bushmaster'. I used a blackened 1x9 SS 20" HBAR which I believe was made by Olympic.
I passed up buying a Galil and HK 93 to assemble my own AR.
I really noticed ARs getting really popular after the Assault Weapons ban expired in 2004. With 3gun being shown on TV and everything they've gotten even more popular than ever.
Phillygunguy
04-27-12, 11:15
I got into shooting late 30s in 2005, 2007 bought my first Ak and my first AR in 2008the after Obozo won the election I have to say I spent more money on guns and Ammo these past 3 years than the 7 years combined
Beat Trash
04-27-12, 20:38
I can remember reading through the Colt catalogue from the late 1970's, looking at the AR15. There were a grand total of two to choose from. The 20" SP1 and the 16" with a collapsable stock. The add was trying to push these as rifles for Ranchers.
I bought my first AR, an SP1, when I got out of the Marine Corps in 1987. When stationed in the west coast, I attended my first gun show at Pomona during the summer of 1985. It was huge!
The AR platform always had a following among veterans who wanted a bit of nostalgia. But I agree with Rob, in that it really didn't take off until the AWB ban started. Want to create an instant demand for an item? Tell people they can't have it. But this was still limited to "gun people".
Y2K is what brought on an interest for defensive firearms from a section of non-gun owning society that prior to, would have never given any thought to owning a gun. If it's good enough for the military, if it's effective enough that many want to ban it, then it's exactly what I want to defend my family with if things go bad.
The lifting of the AWB brought forth those too young to buy prior to the ban. Fighting an extended war on two fronts added a new generation of Veterans wanting a piece of nostalgia. These young vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan had enough first hand experience to just smile and roll their eyes at the M-14 crowd. The BS about the AR being an unreliable POS, and that the 5.56mm wasn't up to the task. I spent all of the 1980's - 1990's listening to old men tell me if it wasn't an M-14 and shooting 7.62, then I was a fool for owning one. A rifle without a wood stock! The really old guys thought if it wasn't an M1 shooting an '06, then it why bother? Like every generation, people tend to fall back on what is familiar. And a lot of people returned to civilian life familiar with the M4 carbine.
The world watched the aftermath of Katrina and Rita on the Gulf coast. Many suburbanites started to ask themselves, "What if that were to happen here?". Non-gun people along the coast started adding an AR to their "hurricane preps".
Then along came Obama...
To answer the OP's question, I feel that the popularity and acceptance of the AR platform came in stages.
"During the 70's, ARs, AKs, and FALS were all the rage, and was mostly fueled by SOF magazine (I read as a kid) or all the other Merc movies, the Wild Geese, Dark of the Sun, Dogs of War, with exploits of Mercs in VN, Rhodesia, and other places in Africa or in Central America. In the 80s around military bases, you could rarely find a military person who didn't own an AR-15, Mini-14 (ala the A-Team TV series) or a SPAS-12 shotty."
You brought back some memories!
I used to go to the "paper store" on the way from school to baseball practice. I'd buy some gum, candy and always the new SOF when it came out. Lots of cool stuff there for a grade school kid.
Back in the early 80's I was stationed at Ft Riley, KS. Right outside the gate was a little town called Ogden. Pat's Pawn & Gun had a HK 91 and an AR15 Sporter..$500.00 for each. I finially saved up enough money and went to get the HK but it was already sold so I bought the Colt SP-1 Sporter. No magazine fence or forward assist, Car style stock and long pencil barrel. I had the unit Armorer remove the flash hider and I installed a set-back Car 15 look-alike. It looked cool. I think 5.56 ammo was like $1.50 to 2.00 a box then. Being left handed I had trouble with the "missing" magazine fence since when I wore it slung across my front the mag release would hit my belt buckle and drop my mag. I never had an issue with brass hitting me in the face with the carbine like it did with the M16A1 but I had a GI brass deflector anyway. Had that rifle for several years and let it go.
During the assault rifle ban era I wanted another AR. Couldn't find a flat top anywhere and ended up getting a Bushmaster AR 15 with the pinned stock, A2 upper, and mini tri-y comp. It was loud as hell but very little recoil. As soon as the ban lifted I got a real M4 stock and eventually had the comp cut off and replaced with an extented A2 FH and replaced the BCG with a BCM unit.
I presume that back in the 1960's citizens were buying AR15s for personal use. I doubt they were as popular then as they are now though?
How much did they cost compared to bolt action rifles of the time?
I built my first AR15 in the mid 1980's after returning home from the Marines. Quality parts were hard to find Back then . "Shotgun News Magazine" was the best source and of course Bushmaster quality parts. There was alot of junk on the market back in those days. Mostly military rejects. There were NO AR15 parts at gun shows. Mostly shotguns and hunting rifles . Assualt weapons and parts were unheard of and should I dare say, looked down on. I think on the first kit guns I assembled 1980's from ----- parts Kit ?....I spent roughly $250.00 and $35.00 Essential Arms lower receiver. It was a POS but it shot well after alot of fine gunsmithing. You should have seen the look on the guys face when I asked for a stripped lower receiver for an AR15 back in the 1980's. I went into our local Hardware store that carried an FFL. Told him what I wanted to order. Handed him the ad , that I cut out of some magazine. He looked at me like I was some kind of terrorist and then asked me if it was legal to own. It seemed like it took forever but I finally got it. Back in those days seems like everything had to be custom fit , nothing just went right together. It was best to take some tools with you on the first time out , with your freshly built weapon. More likely than not it , it would have to be tweeked in. From that day to this , I have built so many , I Lost count. Todays build go so much smoother thanks to closer tollarences and the popularity of the AR. There are lots of good parts out there these days. Pretty much anyone can build a nice shooting rifle now.
I bought my first AR [Colt that is all there was]in the early 70s then bought another . Them sold them both during the first Calif. black gun ban . Then bought 2 colt H bars and sold them at the second Calif. black gun ban. They have always been popular, just now more people are into guns.
My opinion only...
I was first issued the M16 A1 back in 1982. Around this time, the black rifle still had a bit of a cloud hanging over it from Vietnam, which had ended less than ten years earlier. My experience with the rifle was great. I never had a stoppage that was not operator error. Think dirt in the mag...
Fast forward three years. I bought my first civilian Colt AR-15 A1 (SP1). Most of my friends said that I should have gotten an AK, as the ARs suck... Always jamming, small round, not as cool ect...
IMHO, it was not until the A2 came out, that the opinions started to change. Somehow, the new version was much better. People started looking. The Gulf War came and went with no bad press about the M16, so this helped. The watershed event if you ask me, was the proliferation of CHEAP generic ARs... No name mentioned, but once these things started hitting the street, and one could buy one for HALF the price of a Colt... There you go. Since the price was dropping, popularity exploded.
Then Bill Clinton came along, and the rest is history...
Another factor that help propel the popularity of the AR was the introduction of the A3 and M4 flattops. And later the intro of handguard rails. Being able to easily mount a variety of sights, optics, lights, grips etc opened up a lot if opportunities.
Suwannee Tim
05-05-12, 20:30
Duplicate.
Suwannee Tim
05-05-12, 20:38
I can tell you almost to the minute when I became keenly interested in black guns. About 5:30 a.m. Wednesday November 5, 2008. I am in high hopes that come Wednesday, November 6, 2012 my interest will abate somewhat, at least enough so I can see my way clear to buy something made of walnut and blued steel. Something or two or three.
Another factor that help propel the popularity of the AR was the introduction of the A3 and M4 flattops. And later the intro of handguard rails. Being able to easily mount a variety of sights, optics, lights, grips etc opened up a lot if opportunities.
I bought a Colt with a carry handle just before the last AWB and at the time I thought it would be a much better rifle without the carry handle. I don't know if Mr. Picatinny had yet invented his wonderful rail and installed it on a handleless AR.
shootist1970
05-06-12, 15:26
In the days of our fathers the Mid 1970's early 80's, you had vietnam vets who wanted as close as they could get to what they carried in "Nam" just a veteran thing, but yea also a big survivalist movement waiting for the nuclear fire and post apocalyptic scenario who seeketh out items of self preservation.
And then it came to pass in 1994, Paranoid rulers of the land were sore afraid of people owning such things and they proceedeth forth to bar them from ownership and in the days of our fathers sons, the rulers decreed, that the peasants within their land could no longer own such things and thousands of peasants rushed forth to purchase a much needed but forbidden item!!
But behold, the rulers in their zeal to control the people but not raise the peoples ire against them had compromise and offer an expiration date which bringeth us to our current dispensation, whence alas in 2004 a great and joyous shout arose from the people as items of great worth in self preservation were again allowed to prosper amongst the land, But behold the world becometh a much changed place by the current dipensation, evil doers had smote the land causing great pain and suffering and the land riseth up for war and people again sore afraid for their welfare hath returned to the items of great worth in self preservation. Also the youth of the land having been introduced to the worth of the items of self preservation via unholy video gameth system have sprang forth to purchase them.
Industry repondeth in a great manner to provide the people of the land these items as again there are veterans and people concernest about the future and also unable to trust the current rulers of the land who seeketh out these items of great worth in self preservation.
And thus it goeth in cycles.............AMEN.
A few years ago I saw a reproduced Colt ad from 1964 marketing the SP-1 style rifle. It was in a "camping" type background with a lantern and other stuff. I always wondered just how rare it was to see one NOT in military hands circa 1964 or shortly thereafter. I'd guess VERY uncommon.
As an aside, I remember seeing a pic of one of the SS cars in Kennedy's Dallas motorcade and you could see the end of an AR sticking up. That would've been late '63. Granted, gubment as opposed to civvie users but still kind of nostalgic.
I bought my first AR in 1980 when I turned 18. They were readily available, but not really that common. HKs had more cachet at the time.
shootist1970
05-14-12, 14:07
ABNAK, a lot of people don't realize TWO of the first civilian AR's were owned by the John F. Kennedy, they were given to him as gifts when Colt was lobbying for military adoption of the M-16. You have a keen eye indeed.
ABNAK, a lot of people don't realize TWO of the first civilian AR's were owned by John F. Kennedy, they were given to him as gifts when Colt was lobbying for military adoption of the M-16. You have a keen eye indeed.
Yeah, back before Democrats were mostly anti-gun!
Although I think the AR15 was relatively popular in the civilian market in the 1980s and 1990s, I think there popularity really exploded in the last 5-6 years particularly since 2008-09 timeframe when they truly became mainstream.
Uhhhh...???
They were mainsteam in the very early 2k's at the very latest.
I bought a Colt with a carry handle just before the last AWB and at the time I thought it would be a much better rifle without the carry handle. I don't know if Mr. Picatinny had yet invented his wonderful rail and installed it on a handleless AR.
A shop around here was selling them flat top in the 80's.
Started off as handle milled off and two scope ring screwed diectly to it, then two scope ring notches cut in to allow for more range of choice, then that evolved to a full Weaver rail.
Still, built in mount rail wasn't a new to the platform idea.
Vietnam era Model 656
http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~wcchang/M16/M656.jpg
madcratebuilder
05-23-12, 09:42
After I got out of the service in 69 I was strictly a hand gun guy. A buddy bought a Colt in 73-74. I bought one a month later, $400 seems to stick in my mind as the price. Reload all week to shoot all weekend.
They were not at all popular in the 60's but there were a few Colts (SP 1's) out there. During the 70's there began to be a few manufacturers besides Colt and Colt started selling the carbine version of the SP1 in the 70's, and others began making barrels and lower receivers and such. Olympia/Scheutzen Gun Works (Maybe 'Werks') and Old Sarge in Texas are examples as well as others.
In the 80's they became more popular and then really seemed to take off in the 90's.
The Colt SP1 when first introduced was expensive and most people wouldn't spend the money on the "Mattel" gun. Plus it had some very critical reviews in the gun publications of the '60's.
Dirk Williams
05-24-12, 16:46
Had my first Colt AR in 83. Prior to that it was 91's AR 180's" Costa Mesa". FN's, Valmets etc etc.
I still have some of those AR 180's, FN's, 91"s and a Valmet to this day. The early Colts are long gone
DW
My first was a Colt AR15 A2 around 1987 or 88.
I bought my first SP1 in 1975 for the outrageous sum of $225 U.S. I put a Colt Scope on it and took the little bent up block in the magazine out and I have been hooked ever since. :D
Everyone may have a different awareness of when it happened due to where they lived at the time. In Houston, I was well aware of the rise in the late 80's and early 90's. I was definitely seeing more at the gun shows and saw them going for mid $400's up to $600 for the H-Bar. At the time Colt was the major player and dominated the market. Some dealers would bring in pallets of AK47's as their booth. I considered that a poor mans AR, since they were sub $300 guns at the time. The AK's are functional, but their finish next to an AR, they looked like a cheaper gun.
They were pretty popular in the early 80's, remember all the Rambo and Terminator movies. The guns were popular before these movies came out but surged afterwards. These movies are what caused all the bans, made it look like you could just pick up full auto at any gunshop.
Nightvisionary
06-15-12, 22:15
Aside from news footage from the Vietnam war Im gonna say the earliest interest in the AR15 was generated by the television show SWAT in 1975. As a kid I remeber being facinated by the opening sequence which showed officers grabbing M-16's from the ready racks as they ran out to the SWAT van:D Back then police with assault rifles and body armor was cutting edge.
You can check it out here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sss51tFfsW4
I remember when the newly released Colt Delta HBAR was all the rage with it's accurized match 20 inch barrel, cheek piece, and rubber encased Tasco 3x9 scope.
Back then there was not much variety in AR's or any modern military rifles. The cold war was in full swing so imports from combloc countries was almost non-existant. It was pretty much just Colt AR's, AR-180's, FN FAL's, FNC's, and HK-91's. Before Clayco first began importing Chicom AKS and SKS carbines the only AK's available were a handful of papered Vietnam war captures and imported Egyptian Maddi AKM's. At the time you could purchase nearly 3 HK-91's for the price of one Maddi AK.
Circa 1979 a standard SP1 could be had in my area for $325. A factory full-auto capable Colt ran you $300.
I assume this now backwards pricing was a supply/demand issue due to the additional NFA $200 (:eek:) required for the FA version.
I graduated college a few months before 08 election and wanted to buy an AR. The prices had started to get out of hand at that point so I waited until 2010. I would say the '08 election really increased the popularity of these rifles.
My first AR was a 20" Colt SP1 with triangular handguards that I bought in the early 1980s. This gave me a gun similar to what I trained with in ROTC.
I next got a 16" barrelled Colt AR-15a2 with a 2 position collapsable stock in 1989. I ultimately replaced this gun with a 6920, but before I did I ran it through a Jeff Gonzales Carbine class. I used a gooseneck mounted Aimpoint that held the Aimpoint over the handguard and had exactly one malfunction in about 1600 rounds fired in the two-day class. Not too shabby :cool:. Of course I was using modern lubrication techniques--lubricating it heavily. I don't remember the specifics af what I was taught with regards to lubrication, but it definitely wasn't to do it heavily.
My first AR was a 20" Colt SP1 with triangular handguards that I bought in the early 1980s. This gave me a gun similar to what I trained with in ROTC.
I next got a 16" barrelled Colt AR-15a2 with a 2 position collapsable stock in 1989. I ultimately replaced this gun with a 6920, but before I did I ran it through a Jeff Gonzales Carbine class. I used a gooseneck mounted Aimpoint that held the Aimpoint over the handguard and had exactly one malfunction in about 1600 rounds fired in the two-day class. Not too shabby :cool:. Of course I was using modern lubrication techniques--lubricating it heavily. I don't remember the specifics af what I was taught with regards to lubrication, but it definitely wasn't to do it heavily.
I had those same Colts at about the same time. Should have kept them.
Around 1975. And this TV show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Iwp1d7eKbA
That show is probably what did it for me.
Many years ago I had one of the actors on the show email me and I told him that I credited the show with me liking ARs. He did not seem pleased that the show may have made me like guns.
Also TAPs had an effect on me.
That show is probably what did it for me.
Many years ago I had one of the actors on the show email me and I told him that I credited the show with me liking ARs. He did not seem pleased that the show may have made me like guns.
Also TAPs had an effect on me.
Ah, TAPs. Thanks for bringing that up. I forgot about that movie but it was great flick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob2DIURBXts
I bought one in 1983 for $500.00.Secret service had them in the
early 1960s.
Aside from news footage from the Vietnam war Im gonna say the earliest interest in the AR15 was generated by the television show SWAT in 1975. As a kid I remeber being facinated by the opening sequence which showed officers grabbing M-16's from the ready racks as they ran out to the SWAT van:D Back then police with assault rifles and body armor was cutting edge.
You can check it out here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sss51tFfsW4
I remember when the newly released Colt Delta HBAR was all the rage with it's accurized match 20 inch barrel, cheek piece, and rubber encased Tasco 3x9 scope.
Back then there was not much variety in AR's or any modern military rifles. The cold war was in full swing so imports from combloc countries was almost non-existant. It was pretty much just Colt AR's, AR-180's, FN FAL's, FNC's, and HK-91's. Before Clayco first began importing Chicom AKS and SKS carbines the only AK's available were a handful of papered Vietnam war captures and imported Egyptian Maddi AKM's. At the time you could purchase nearly 3 HK-91's for the price of one Maddi AK.
Whoa!, they used the carry handle to . . . carry the rifle!
Never seen anyone do that.
:)
Lone_Ranger
12-04-12, 19:20
"During the 70's, ARs, AKs, and FALS were all the rage, and was mostly fueled by SOF magazine (I read as a kid) or all the other Merc movies, the Wild Geese, Dark of the Sun, Dogs of War, with exploits of Mercs in VN, Rhodesia, and other places in Africa or in Central America. In the 80s around military bases, you could rarely find a military person who didn't own an AR-15, Mini-14 (ala the A-Team TV series) or a SPAS-12 shotty."
You brought back some memories!
Ah yes! http://youtu.be/YT1sG9Nmz3w
CleverNickname
12-04-12, 19:48
Whoa!, they used the carry handle to . . . carry the rifle!
Never seen anyone do that.
:)
Well, those are actors. They probably heard "carry handle" and assumed that meant they should actually carry the gun with it.
I had my first one in 1985, it was a Colt SP1 carbine. I can say at that time they were not to popular as every time I was at the range I never seen anyone else shooting anything but bolts, pumps or lever actions, always got funny looks when I was shooting it:D.
I'm gonna guess they started to get popular right before the 94 AWB and then exploded in popularity at the expiration of it in 04.
too old for this
12-04-12, 23:16
I traded a Weatherby Mark V for an A2 Car-15 in 1985. I was hooked. Took a carbine class at Gunsite in '93 with an sp1. One of the instructors had a rifle that I liked so when I got home I started on building my first: an eagle arms flat-top with a cobra circle-dot (made by swarovski) in weaver mounts and a surefire light w/ pressure switch velcroed to the handguard. Since then it has been more Colt's, an LMT and a BCM middy. I got rid of the Eagle long ago.
The politics of gun control certainly played a part but so did television, movies, video games and the internet. My 32 year old son and many of the boys he grew up with in California are now shooters.
A square 10
12-05-12, 10:31
i didnt have the cash in the day but my best friend did , it was 1972 that i first got to shoot his , he was working with a local police department at the time ,
The Ar15 really exploded when the AWB expired in Sep 2004. For the first time large quantities of M4 style rifles with collapsable stocks, flash hiders, etc were available at normal prices. It has been the M4 style rifles that have driven the AR15 to its current popularity. Then you combine that with more optics, accessories and gear for the AR15 and the rest is history. Things like the 2008 election only add to it but its popularity has crossed over and isn't limited to tactical shooting anymore and the AR has now become Americas sporting rifle of choice.
too old for this
12-05-12, 12:20
The increase in popularity of the AR15 and related accessories, the plethora of relatively new companies that offer them, is directly related to the rise of and now ubiquity of the internet. The combination of sites like this one with its masthead of companies, the number of online outfits like G&R that make purchasing very easy, and the ability of companies like IWC, Magpul and BCM (to name a few), to find almost instant name recognition and success is due to the internet. Back in the '80's and '90's before the internet (BI) when a new company offering a product came along the job of gaining recognition through brick and mortar stores and advertising solely through magazines was slow and tedious. The Internet was a game changer of epic proportions, changing retail sales in gun related things the way the Gutenberg press changed the flow of information. I purchased an LMT rifle after discovering and researching it online. Same with my BCM. I purchased a Larue optic/mount combo online after being directed to the site via M4carbine,net. In fact, I can't think of one firearms related item I haven't purchased in the last ten years that wasn't found, researched, priced and purchased online. The fact that people are reading this is proof. And it isn't just the Black Rifle. The 1911, in this same time period, went from a good pistol, to the Holy Grail with a plethora of companies competing for an ever expanding market, to where almost everyone makes a 1911 now, just as nearly every gun company now markets an Mforgery. When I purchased my first 1911 and AR15 in the 1980's, the choice for both was Colt and a few lesser known brands, but Colt was the go-to for both. To list all of the companies now marketing 1911's and AR15's today would be tedious but the majority of them would have either started post internet or realized their success post internet.
BCM-Rainier Arms-G&R Tactical-Operation Parts-Larue-IWC-Blue Force Gear-Clyde Armory, even Gunbroker.com...these are sites that I have used. Others use different ones, but they are all online businesses that facilitate the popularity and ease of purchase of firearms and firearms related items.
Notlongago
12-06-12, 23:01
Don't forget the explosion of video games like COD. Just heard today that that specific franchise has outsold star wars and Harry potter. People want the real life toys.
I'm old enough to remember the early 1980's, and IIRC the old AR-15 variants with the triangular handguard and A1 sights (aka the Colt SP-1) were never too popular. Modern military-style semi autos were only just starting to catch on, and they were all very expensive. Most folks wanting a .223 semi auto bought a Ruger Mini-14 due to the lower cost and more traditional looks. A lot of folks still viewed the M16A1/AR-15 as a futuristic plastic toy.
That changed when the military adopted the M16A2, and the civilian counterpart AR-15A2 hit the market around 1984 or so. With the new heavier barrel, rounded handguard, longer stock and excellent A2 sights the weapon was at last a decent rifle for varmint hunting and ranch predator control, as well as competition. I believe that's when the popularity of the AR finally took hold with civilian consumers, and as shooters using the new A2 rifles began winning matches at Camp Perry things just got better and better. I remember having a Bushmaster equivalent with the 20" HBAR barrel, and that thing was the most accurate out-of-the-box rifle I ever owned. When the AWB hit that only increased interest in the Black Rifle, and like the others have said the expiration of the AWB and resulting drop in prices opened the floodgates. By then the M4 Carbine had been developed, and with that we finally had what was pretty close to the ideal carbine-length tactical rifle.
Unfortunately the events of 2012 are going to prove another milestone in the civilian history of the AR, and with any luck they won't signal the beginning of the end. The AR is a great rifle for all sorts of legitimate commercial use, from hunting to competition to defense. Our enemies don't see it that way, as they tend to wet their pants at the sight of anything that holds more than five rounds at a time. Keep up the fight and don't let them castrate us.
I bought my first ar in 76 or 77. Sp1. There was a show on tv named swat and it seemed like the coolest rifle ever to me at 15. That rifle went everywhere with me till I upgraded many times over.
i too bought my first two sp1 back in those days. i still ha ve them i have a couple of others also but i carried a varfiant in vietnam so i was familier with them
Nostalgia aside.....I'd say when Barry O' got in office. He's been responsible for the sale of more AR's to Americans (and Mexicans) than any other president in history!!!
Nothing makes people want something like having someone else tell them that they can't have it. :nono:
the entire thread summed-up in one sentence.
OkieOutlaw
04-06-13, 20:12
I also bought my very first personally owned ar way back in 75 right after returning from VN. It was a SP1 that I paid a grand total of $310 in a gun store in San Diego Cal. and it still holds a valuable space in my heart as well as the safe. I remember the first time my step dad saw the rifle. I had just returned from two long tours and was still really edgy as my mom called it. I had the ar and an M1A1 and I always kept them in traditional soft gun cases. Well the old man was prowling around in my gear and came across the ar and had a fit. I had to prove to him that it was indeed a semi auto as he was convinced that I had smuggled home a genuine M16 Machine gun. Things got tough and I ended up having to sell the M1, but just couldn't bring myself to get rid of the ar as it just kind of took the place of an old reliable friend.
whiskey lake
04-10-13, 01:49
Heck, I used to shoot my grandpa's m16 full auto back in the early '80s but we didn't like it because it was so "loose" compared to our Ruger bolt action rifles.
As someone born in the 80's, I don't really see the appeal of traditional guns, because I live in suburbia where I don't see myself shooting past 200m. To me, the AR-15 is the logical choice.
Sent from my HTC Sensation
Retiredbroke
04-10-13, 22:03
I bought an SP-1 in 79, think it was $320 out the door. Wish I had it back!
Heck, I used to shoot my grandpa's m16 full auto back in the early '80s but we didn't like it because it was so "loose" compared to our Ruger bolt action rifles.
Is your grandfather's M16 still in the family?
My first intro to black rifles was in the mid-80s when I was about 8yo. My dad and I had our Sunday afternoon outing each week to the range where we belonged. Not many semiauto ARs that I recall, but I was introduced to some privately owned M16s, an American 180, and an UZI at the time. This was in Southeast FL in the 80s and it seemed MGs were more common than semis.
Fordtough25
04-30-13, 10:09
I picked up my first AR in 2006, a nice Rock River Arms carbine. Built my first carbine in 2006 as well, the whole process is a lot of fun! I currently own an M4 clone and a M16a4 clone. Both shoot great and honestly do anything i need a rifle to do! I love 'em!
Got my first AR 15 Colt back in 1976 for around $150, used. Bought it from a black powder dealer in NE Ohio, who thought he'd never sell it!
Not a bad start, but I had no access to accessories, parts or whatever at that time, and lost interest a year or so later. Later a guy sold me a Colt rework/ slap-together of an XM 177E2, and from that day forward it's been EBR fun and games ever since!
Mr. Greene
05-18-13, 22:33
i think they got real popular in the early 90's and really took off in sales after the North Hollywood shooting with more PD's arming thier officers with them. now look everybody is making one.
I presume that back in the 1960's citizens were buying AR15s for personal use. I doubt they were as popular then as they are now though?
How much did they cost compared to bolt action rifles of the time?
Greetings Caskalefan,
This entire thread has been a great walk down 'memory lane' for me. I would agree, that based upon historical events, particularly the North Hollywood Shootout, AWB, Gulf War, 9/11, Hurricane Katrina (and others), Elections, etc., that each of these events (and the others mentioned) has caused a rachet-up in popularity of the AR pattern rifles. Their popularity is no longer linear like in the 60s/70's/80's, but has gone exponential! I see kids out of high school to 70 years plus old men buying them in gun stores now. People do not like being told that they cannot have something!
In the Midwest, I purchased a Colt SP-1 in ~1980 for $300. A bolt action Remington 700 BDL was selling for about $250 at the same time. A Colt Python could be purchased for $395 and a Springfield National Match M1A was selling for about $650. I would also agree that AR-15 pattern rifles were not very popular even back in 1980, let alone the 60's and 70's.
At a couple of the Army-Navy Surplus stores in my area, I could sort through 55 gallon drums (literally) full of used Colt 30 round GI magazines, picking out those that looked brand new, for about $4 each (5 mags for $20). Now . . . if I would have only purchased HK 91/93 rifles and magazines when they were readily available!
For 1980 that kind of money sounds like 'chump change' today, but based upon the Consumer Price Index (http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm), and after 33 years of inflation, the equivalent dollars today (2013) would be:
1980 2013
$1 $2.82
$4 $11 (Colt 30 Round Magazine)
$250 $705 (700 BDL Bolt rifle)
$300 $847 (Colt SP-1 AR-15)
$395 $1115 (Colt Python)
$650 $1834 (Springfield National Match M1A)
In short, with this 'simplistic cost comparison'. . . any one of these weapons purchased today are worth more in 2013 dollars. The only one that is 'somewhat consistent' today (price-wise), relative to the 1980 prices would be a bolt action sporter/hunting rifle.
Thanks to all for posting your comments. :cool:
I especially like those comments on the A2 rifle being a factor in EBR mania. Prior to that point, my interest was rather limited to the shorty Carbines, and that was limited by what was, or wasn't, available. The Alpha Deuce changed all that, especially with the Colt R6550 Gov't Model. I was not too happy with the A1 slickside lower, but the rest of the piece was outstanding. ASAP, I swapped on an A2 lower from Bushie, and then proceeded to build an all Bushie A2 with FHBAR upper. Life was good and it still is. Still building A2s, with all Colt parts and extra 6929/6520 lowers. Oh, joy ! :smile:
Around year 1970, we were buying Colt AR15 rifles for $219 each in lots of ten. Single units were $229 from the wholesalers.
Those were basically obsolete early government Hartford made Colt M16s with semi-auto components installed. Some people were going to the local gun show and purchasing full auto fire control group pieces and either installing the parts or keeping those items on hand for a "rainy day".
A cat and mouse game started between the full auto M16 parts hot shot crowd and the ATF. Eventually, the G had Colt modify the commercial AR15 rifles lower receiver interior contours so to not accept the full auto parts.
The big popularity of the AR15 rifle seems to have coincided with each partial ban or attempt to outlaw that specie of firearm. Seems that when you tell people they can't have something, they automatically want it more. What central control minded liberal leftist fanatics never seem to learn is that it is impossible to stop human nature.
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