Controlled Chaos Arms Training

[benw315]

Hey,

Last Sunday I took the Basic Rifle training course from Controlled Chaos Arms in Iowa.
www.controlledchaosarms.com
I figured I would tell you all my experience with them. I'm not an expert so take this review how you want.

First, the instructors were Keith and Rick. Both were very helpful and friendly. They both seemed very knowledgeable with firearms. They have also both taken several training courses with people such as Larry Vickers. Keith is regionally endorsed as an instructor by Larry Vickers.

The first thing we did was to get an introduction to the AR platform and safety, followed by Keith lubing all of our rifles. We then obtained an approximate zero set up for 100 yards. I prefer the 50/2XX zero myself, but the class prefers the 100 yard zero. They then taught us proper trigger control and breathing while shooting. They explained four different shooting positions: prone, kneeling, sitting, and standing. We practiced these positions throughout the day. Once this was done, we backed up to the 100 yard line and shot at man sized targets in an attempt to get all 30 shots in the target and this was timed. It's the same test LEOs around there have to pass. We had to utilize all of our shooting positions and a reload through this test. The last thing we did for the day was the 1-5 drill. Overall we shot probably around 300 rounds (my estimate, could be wrong). They taught more marksmanship instead of the tactical aspect. The tactical part comes later in their more advanced carbine courses.

Overall, I thought this course was very beneficial for me. I got to shoot some rounds down range and also learned a few things.
I was always under the impression we were to use the large peep aperature for most shooting, and the small aperature for long distance shots. Is this correct? They said we are to use the small peep for almost everything, and the large in low light situations.

Pros: Very knowledgeable instructors, very good set up for a basic rifle course to learn, anybody can take the class from someone who hasn't shot a rifle before to an experienced shooter, I improved my knowledge and skills.
Disagree: 100 yard zero, didn't shoot as much as I would have liked, not as many drills as I wanted.

Would I take another class with these guys? Yes.

[Ned Christiansen]

They're kind of a new name to me but I've been hearing good things. Started getting their newsletter and it is very good.

[sboza]

I was always under the impression we were to use the large peep aperature for most shooting, and the small aperature for long distance shots. Is this correct? They said we are to use the small peep for almost everything, and the large in low light situations.

I think this is the wrong subforum for an aar but I will address this. I use the large aperture for all cqb distance shooting (inside 25 yards) or on any contact until I have the time and preferably cover to consider flipping to the small aperture if it is appropriate under the circumstances. That's my preference.

I will say that how far you extend the buttstock an where you place your cheek weld matter in This discussion. if you're a nose to charging handle kind of guy, the small aperture may be a better fit for you as that small circle is going to seem about the same size as a large aperture when compared to someone who has the stock fully extended and is not drivin their head forward.

As for the zero, I really don't see how anyone disagrees with a 100yd zero but to each their own. I prefer 100 to 50/200 and I disagree with the 25/300 but a long as you know your holdovers/holdunders, you can get good hits with any of these.

ETA - Of course I would likely be using an optic but I'm limiting the scope to irons here since that is what you are askin about.

[SOWT]

Curious that they would clean and lube all the rifles? What lube are they running and does it mix well with other lubes students may already have on their weapons (i.e. FrogLube).

[benw315]

Curious that they would clean and lube all the rifles? What lube are they running and does it mix well with other lubes students may already have on their weapons (i.e. FrogLube).

Sorry, I must have put "clean and lube" together by accident out of habit... I don't think he cleaned the guns (although he may have done something of the sort), just lubed them up well. Someone asked him what he used but can't remember exactly what he said. I believe he did this because he said a rifle works best when it is good and wet.

I already had Slip 2000 EWL on mine and I didn't notice any problems with mixing or operation or anything.

[bpw]

Hi,
I took the basic rifle class from Controlled Chaos last year. I found the most helpful thing I learned was figuring out what I was not good at. It made later range sessions on my own more productive. It was also helpful to see how equipment performs in a higher round count setting. (we shot only ~250 rounds all day and some of that was "fun time" at the end of class).

I also took the Tactical rifle I class. Round count was around 750 rifle and 50 pistol over 2 days. We spent a great deal of time on the fundamentals of loading, reloading, selector use, and malfunction clearing. Then we did all that again while on the move. We shot from multiple positions at multiple distances. Again very helpful on figuring out how equipment performed in a more intense setting.

I also took the basic pistol class from the same instructors.

I thought the classes were all professionally done. The people taking the classes were "ordinary" individuals who wanted to learn how to use the pistol/rifle better and the instructors understood that and made sure everyone was able to master all the skills they felt were important before moving on.

Overall pretty good training for being out in the middle of the cornfields! The range used for the classes is owned by Brownells and very nice as well.

b

[ROMPER]

Curious that they would clean and lube all the rifles? What lube are they running and does it mix well with other lubes students may already have on their weapons (i.e. FrogLube).

Hey all,

I am one of the instructors with CCA. As far as the class, it is a basic introduction to running a carbine. How to run your carbine using the 4 basic shooting positions, your sling, trigger reset, and natural point of aim.
In addition we teach the difference between mechanical zero and a personal zero, and give them the tools to do this with any rifle they own on their own after the class, as well as teach how to care for their carbines and keep them up and running on their own.
As to the question of why do I lube students carbines, I do this because most of our carbine students are pretty new to the weapon system and either have not, or do not understand where to add lubrication. And putting a lot of information out to a group is slowed down when guns break down.
I also ask who assembled their carbines and take a look at them prior to shooting.
I do this to keep everyones carbine up and running so no time is taken on breakdowns.
And yes, I am a Colt Certified Armorer and in my full time job I keep patrol rifles, entry rifles, and marksman/observer rifles up and running for a merged tactical unit between the two largest law enforcement agencies in Iowa, as well as run training for both agencies.
I would love to add more drills during this class, but with time constraints and the amount of information put out in this class in addition to the learning curve we try to teach good basics that all students can understand and build into solid skills.
Both Rick and I enjoy shooting, and teaching and decided to add carbine classes because so many people we knew owned one but did not have a venue to learn good basics.
Thanks for the postive comments, and we look forward to seeing more folks out on the range.

Romper

[benw315]

Hey all,

I am one of the instructors with CCA. As far as the class, it is a basic introduction to running a carbine. How to run your carbine using the 4 basic shooting positions, your sling, trigger reset, and natural point of aim.
In addition we teach the difference between mechanical zero and a personal zero, and give them the tools to do this with any rifle they own on their own after the class, as well as teach how to care for their carbines and keep them up and running on their own.
As to the question of why do I lube students carbines, I do this because most of our carbine students are pretty new to the weapon system and either have not, or do not understand where to add lubrication. And putting a lot of information out to a group is slowed down when guns break down.
I also ask who assembled their carbines and take a look at them prior to shooting.
I do this to keep everyones carbine up and running so no time is taken on breakdowns.
And yes, I am a Colt Certified Armorer and in my full time job I keep patrol rifles, entry rifles, and marksman/observer rifles up and running for a merged tactical unit between the two largest law enforcement agencies in Iowa, as well as run training for both agencies.
I would love to add more drills during this class, but with time constraints and the amount of information put out in this class in addition to the learning curve we try to teach good basics that all students can understand and build into solid skills.
Both Rick and I enjoy shooting, and teaching and decided to add carbine classes because so many people we knew owned one but did not have a venue to learn good basics.
Thanks for the postive comments, and we look forward to seeing more folks out on the range.

Romper

Thanks for posting! Didn't know you were on here... that clarifies the couple things I couldn't answer well. I'm hoping to come to your tactical carbine course as long as I can swing it.

Thanks for the great course.

[Shokr21]

any possibility of adding more dates for your basic classes? All of your current class dates are on guard drill weekends for me!

Heard lots of great things about your classes from several guys shooting USPSA around the DSM area.

[ROMPER]

Thanks for the kind words. Yes, been a member here for some time.

As for more dates, we should be adding classes for the rest of the year here pretty soon.