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Breadstick
09-12-12, 21:37
I just recently aquired a K98 Mauser BCD 4, but am confused on the exact caliber....I didn't purchase this as I inherited it from my father-inlaw (also my best friend) whom lost his battle with brain cancer at a ripe age of 52.....Sold most of his collection to pay medical bills.

After a little google-foo, it can be either 7.92...or actual 8mm.

I looked over the rifle and didnt see any caliber type markings.

Would any of you have an idea, or point me to a good resource for K98'ers?

Most of what I've come across is gun auctions sites and other crap...but nothing really hardcore about k98's

Clint
09-12-12, 22:10
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.92×57mm_Mauser

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karabiner_98k

Deputy Dan
09-13-12, 14:07
It was manufactured in caliber 7.92X57

It may not be in that caliber now... many K98s were rechambered in 8mm '06 to make use of plentiful '06 brass.

It is probably still in 7.92X57... the only way to be positive is to do a chamber cast.

gsxr-fan
09-13-12, 21:58
One of the best references you will find is “Backbone of the Wehrmacht The German K98K Rifle, 1934 -1945” by Richard Law and published by Collector Grade Publications. In it, he covers the k98k in depth: the inter war period, pre world war 2, the world war 2 years, productions totals, telescopes, accessories and more. The presentation of the materials and quality of the photographs is just outstanding! Anyone looking for any information on the k98k will be well served to start here as the material is throughly researched and documented.

Just my .02

rojocorsa
09-14-12, 01:34
Caliber 7.92x57 aka 8mm Mauser.


If any further doubt, we're talking about the 8mm Mauser with the .323" bullet, not the earlier one.


Make sure you clean out the corrosive if the ammo you shoot is corrosive. Don't forget about this!


The only K-98s off the top of my head that I know that are 30/06 are the Norwegian rifles.


To remove any doubt, the importer probably stamped the caliber somewhere on the firearm. Look on the receiver or right in front of the bayonet lug.

Deputy Dan
09-14-12, 11:45
To clarify my earlier post...

There was a time when bulk 8mm Mauser/7.92x57 wasn't very common for the average shooter (especially in the pre-internet age). Some enterprising gunplumbers (this was popular post WW2) ran a 30-06 chamber ream into Kar 98s to produce 8mm-06 (the rifle had 30-06 chamber with .323 bore)so folks could use cheap 30-06 brass... they just bumped the neck of the case to .323 and use a .323 projectile and they were back in the shooting business.

In the post WW-1 era many Mausers were rechambered to 8x60 to comply with the disarmament provisions of the Versailles Treaty and the numerous other treaties between the belligerent parties... the changing of calibers for the Mauser 98 has been going on for a long time.

The most commonly encountered 7,92x57mm ammunition is the sS type(sS for Schweres Spitzgeschoss meaning heavy pointed bullet) with the 197.5 gr projectile.

If there is ANY question as to what caliber the rifle is chambered in, you will need to do a cerrosafe chamber casting.

P.S. If the rifle is a RC or other recent import, it is most likely still in 7.92mm. My previous statement stands as to proof positive.

Army Chief
09-14-12, 11:56
Shows what I know ... I've got a G.33/40-based hunting carbine chambered in the same caliber, and the German Buchsenmachermeister that built it for me told me that 7.92x57 was the original/technically correct European designation for the cartridge, while 8mm Mauser JS (IS) is simply the commercial/SAAMI designation for the same round.

AC

Deputy Dan
09-14-12, 13:05
Chief

8X57 IS is the Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes ŕ Feu Portatives (C.I.P.) designation of the cartridge, meaning Infanterie Spitzgeschoß or Infantry Pointed Bullet.

The majority of 7.92x57 on the market is 7.92×57mm Mauser s.S. Patrone with the 198 gr projectile... i would venture to guess that it accounts for 85% or more of the surplus 8x57.

Breadstick
09-14-12, 23:59
thanks


I think I found the marking on the top, right before the reciever.

7.9 so I think I just might grab a box of 8mm mauser an see how she works but...i'm still having smith look it over first.

brickboy240
09-20-12, 14:11
Yes, the K-98 and most later 98 Mausers in 8x57 shoot better with the European made ammo...not the US made "8mm Mauser" stuff.

Why?

Well, many US ammo makers were nervous about lawsuits if someone blew up an early 1888 Mauser, so they loaded the domestic 8mm Mauser with bullets that were .320 in diameter. They also backed the charge down and put a 170gr bullet in their offerings. This actually puts the US made 8mm Mauser loads in the 300 Savage/30-40 Krag power class...not in the 308/30-06 power class that the European 7.92 Mauser was originally.

This also means that your K98 will not be nearly as accurate or hit where the sights read. Basically, US made 8mm Mauser ammo is the wrong size bullet, underloaded.

Thats ok, because Sellier & Belliot and other Euro ammo makers still make quality 8x57 Mauser ammo with the proper .323 diameter bullet in 196 grain weight and with the proper charge.

I only run European made 196g ammo in my K-98, G33-40 and Czech VZ-24 and so should you. Unless you dig inaccuracy and lower power.

-brickboy240

Breadstick
09-21-12, 13:21
Thanks for that detail!!

brickboy240
09-24-12, 17:58
No problemo!

Most people do not know anything about the various "8mm Mauser" ammo types floating around.

I found most of it out while paying around with several K98s, VZ-24s and a G33-40.

-brickboy240

Breadstick
09-24-12, 21:24
Well,

I got it totally cleaned out, reassembled. What a solid action. It's smooth, clean and more solid than some brand new modern day bolt action rifles!

Looking at really buying ammo now:

http://www.ammunitionstore.com/products/8mm-mauser-ammo-196gr-sp-wolf-gold-20-round-box.html

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/100rds-8mm-mauser-prvi-partizan-196gr-soft-point-ammo/cName/8mm-mauser-soft-point

OR as recommened
http://www.cabelas.com/rifle-ammunition-sellier-bellot-8mm-mauser-bulk-ammo-dry-storage-box.shtml

I do plan to SHOOT the gun!


this is the rifle:
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/Breadstick360/K98.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/Breadstick360/K98III.jpg

brickboy240
09-25-12, 12:16
All of those are fine choices.

You might also check for some of the 1970s Yugo surplus ammo that is floating around. It is corrosive but shoots great. Unfortunately, gone are the heydays of the cheap and good surplus like the Austrian Hirtenberger stuff or the FN Belgian surplus 8mm. Stay away from the Turkish 8mm surplus from the 40s....it is cheap but lots of duds, hangfires and it is not very accurate.

That is a very nice looking K98 Mauser! Does the serial number on the bolt match the one on the receiver? If so...your headspace should be GTG. If not, you might want to have a smith check the rifle's headspace.

Also, if you DO ever shoot US made 8mm Mauser with the .320 diameter 170gr bullet that is loaded lightly....don't be surprised if you see your primers backed out slightly after shooting. It is not dangerous....just what happens when your ammo is underloaded.

Stick to the Euro made 8x57 and you will never see that problem. The US made 8mm Mauser is the wrong sized, wrong weighted bullet, underloaded.

-brickboy240

Breadstick
09-25-12, 18:06
Yes all numbers are matching.

From the front band, to the mag plate, bolt handle,reciver, safety etc.etc all the same number.

Just ordered the Sellier & Bellot 8mm Mauser Bulk Ammo 100

SO It's now just a waiting game until it arrives.;)


Here is another I just got cleaned up....the 1909 Argentine 7.65 mauser...
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/Breadstick360/765Mauser.jpg

brickboy240
09-26-12, 17:13
Do you have a Swedish Mauser?

I swear...the M1896 Swedish Mauser Long Rifle in 6.5x55mm has got to be the nicest shooting military bolt gun out there. Very well made and very accurate.

I have two of them and they are my favorite Mausers..no doubt.

The 6.5x55 also kills whitetails like lightning while not tearing up your shoulder.

-brickboy240

rojocorsa
09-29-12, 02:36
FWIW, I've tried some 1949 Turk 8mm out of mine and it was fine. Kind of on the hotter side, but it wasn't a problem.

Here is a pic of mine:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/295111_2270829147769_842789275_n.jpg

bnz45 "kriegsmodell" that was reconfigured by the Russians to the normal wartime style/layout. There is no RC mark or crappy finish on the wood, but there is electropenciling. This one still has all the eagles and stuff on it. Nice gun.

Unfortunately, being a last year of production, the chamber is rough and leaves concentric burrs all over extracted casings. (It will be polished soon). Also, the receiver has been filed on someplaces just to get the action smoothed out. It also got a trigger job. Once I put a decent front sight on it, it will be a very good shooter.

I have only shot surplus 8mm through it thus far, but I think I will learn to handload for it soon. Sierra makes .323" bullets....I'm thinking a 200gr pill would sound about right for this bad boy. (twist is 1:9.4").

MichaelZWilliamson
10-12-12, 19:43
To be pedantic, the Gewehr 88 is not a Mauser. It was designed by a military commission, stealing liberally from Mauser (bolt), Mannlicher (magazine feed) and Lebel (Barrel).

The Gew 88 changed cartridges and barrels several times, and was still in use by the Turks in the 1950s.

It is true that the pressure specs for the original ones are 2/3 that of the later Mausers. This is due to a combination of chamber size predominantly, barrel wall thickness, and weapon design. The bore diameter is the same for most, at .311. The groove diameter changed from .318 to .323, but there are other variations as well. The bore on MOST variations is not nearly as significant as the chamber, but there are some Czech barrels that are down around .314.

And yes, that's the reason US ammo is loaded so lightly. Just in case.

Here's my new Commission Sporter
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh119/mzmadmike/guns/Haenel%202/Haenel5.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh119/mzmadmike/guns/Haenel%202/Haenel1.jpg

My Steyr contract military
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh119/mzmadmike/guns/NewCommish.jpg

An oddball Haenel Karbine in 7mm
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh119/mzmadmike/guns/Haenel/HaenelOAL2.jpg

and a Turkish 1938 rearsenal that will shoot almost anything
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh119/mzmadmike/guns/Gewoverall.jpg

/hijack and back to the awesomeness of Mausers.

rojocorsa
11-09-12, 23:58
Reading through this thread makes me want to go shoot my Mauser. Sadly, I have not had the chance to upgrade it like I want/need to.

wintermute
11-20-12, 11:55
In the post WW-1 era many Mausers were rechambered to 8x60 to comply with the disarmament provisions of the Versailles Treaty and the numerous other treaties between the belligerent parties... the changing of calibers for the Mauser 98 has been going on for a long time.

I just want to say thank you for this post. I inherited a sporterized Gewehr 98 from my grandfather. The bore diameter is .323 (and barrel stamped with an "S"), so I thought I was good to go with 8x57 IS ammo. If I hadn't read this, I could have been in for a surprise. Gotta get me some Cerrosafe!

brickboy240
11-20-12, 17:23
A WWI Gewher 98 should have a .323 bore and should be totally safe to run modern European 7.92x57mmm Mauser ammo like the rounds sold by S&B, Norma and Privi Partisan.

-brickboy240

MichaelZWilliamson
11-20-12, 17:38
I just want to say thank you for this post. I inherited a sporterized Gewehr 98 from my grandfather. The bore diameter is .323 (and barrel stamped with an "S"), so I thought I was good to go with 8x57 IS ammo. If I hadn't read this, I could have been in for a surprise. Gotta get me some Cerrosafe!


The Germans would almost certainly have restamped if there was a caliber change, and marked the barrel for proof pressure.

Deputy Dan
11-20-12, 19:32
Maybe.

A factory sporter built post WW I might be stamped with the caliber... Have seen more than a few that were not.

A gunsmith built sporter might also be stamped. A hunter or enthusiast built sporter? All bets are off. A chamber cast is easy enough to do and inexpensive enough... and will absolutely answer the question of what cartridge is the rifle chambered in.

MichaelZWilliamson
11-20-12, 21:35
Yes, with any gun of unknown provenance it's a good idea to check.

wintermute
11-21-12, 09:49
Maybe.

A factory sporter built post WW I might be stamped with the caliber... Have seen more than a few that were not.

A gunsmith built sporter might also be stamped. A hunter or enthusiast built sporter? All bets are off. A chamber cast is easy enough to do and inexpensive enough... and will absolutely answer the question of what cartridge is the rifle chambered in.

Yes this is what I plan to do. The receiver is marked "Danzig 1916", so clearly this rifle was sporterized after the fact. As I understand it, all rifles in Germany after the end of WWI were required to be re-chambered for non-military ammo. As I understand it, the only way to determine if this rifle is chambered for 8x57IS and not 8x60 is to do a chamber casting. What dimensions should I pay particular attention to? Also, does anyone have any tips on how to get the cerrosafe into the chamber without spilling it all over the place?

MichaelZWilliamson
11-21-12, 09:56
You might see how deep a .30-06 (7.62X63) fits, and compare depth in a known 8X57 chamber. That'll tell you relative depth. The cases have the same base and diameter.

Do not, of course, attempt to fire the .30.

Yes, this is guerrilla gunsmithing.

El Pistolero
11-21-12, 10:55
A few years back I got a great deal on a case of 1950s Yugo surplus and a few hundred rounds into it I had kabooms. After some research I learned the brass had deteriorated after so many years, making it weak and causing case head failures. IIRC the '52-56 lots were more affected but needless to say I quit shooting the stuff and sold the remainder to a reloader that wanted to pull the bullets. The 98 Mauser is a great design and the saftey features worked as intended after 60+ years through two painful kabooms. If I had been shooting an 8mm autoloader like a Hakim or FN-49 things would not have ended well. The rifle was taken to a gunsmith to check headspace and damage and everything was found to be normal and it's now one of my favorite shooters along with my Finnish M39. I now shoot only 70s or later Yugo surplus, along with a big stash of Yugo M75 and Portuguese 8mm.

brickboy240
11-21-12, 12:38
I had a WWI Gew98 that was made in Danzig in 1915 and it was a .323 bore and shot regular 8x57mm Mauser ammo with no problems at all.

-brickboy240