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STATES
09-26-12, 01:12
So I've heard and read a lot about Froglube, and was recently introduced to FIREclean, which is an even newer product with similar claims to Froglube. They are both non-toxic, biodegradable, non-flammable, low odor, and made in the USA; Froglube is also a "USDA certified biobased product - 98%."



Seeing as how they sound so similar, and are both new(ish) products, I have decided to test them in an apples to apples comparison, with the apples being gen 3 Glock 19s. I have one brand new G19, and I am about to acquire another Wi(hopefully this weekend). My plan is to clean both very thoroughly, then lube one with FIREclean and the other with Froglube, per their respective directions. I will then proceed to shoot the exact same quantity and type of ammo through each, follow the exact same maintenance and cleaning schedule for each, alternate evenly between using them as my carry gun, and take lots of pictures. I plan to start as soon as I get the second G19. Besides testing several varieties of defense ammunition and firing several hundred rounds through each gun, I am taking a three day, high round count handgun class next month, and will shoot several hundred rounds through each pistol over the course of the class, that should be a good test. Also, I understand that Glocks, being reliable, run-on-anything firearms aren't the best test vehicle; however, they are what I have, so they are what I'll use.



Does anyone have any suggestions before I begin? I unfortunately do not have a chrono, so I won't be able to do any muzzle velocity comparisons (not that that is too big of a deal). Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated

AKDoug
09-26-12, 01:26
I honestly doubt you will find a visible difference. I have run Fireclean in a class and the result really wasn't any different than the Mobil1 I was running before. I was ready to switch to Fireclean until I saw the cost. I simply refuse to spend the kind of money that Fireclean and Froglube want when I have no carbon or wear issues with my DDM4 or my semiauto handguns running plain old Mobil1 at 1/16th the cost.

STATES
09-26-12, 01:48
AKDoug: I already have the FIREclean and Froglube on hand, so I'll use them until they're gone; figured I might be able to learn something and possibly contribute here in a meaningful way while I'm at it.

I also think you're right, I probably won't see much of a difference; that's what the side by side comparison will do (I'm hoping). My thought process was that since they both work, I probably won't be able to see much of a difference, so by maintaining the same course of fire through each, I can catalog the malfunctions and such, with an eye toward anything that could have been caused by lube (or lack thereof). After 10,000 rounds or so I think I'll have a decent sample size to point to which might be superior. Then again, I could be completely wrong, and my quasi-scientific test won't show anything of worth

skyugo
09-26-12, 01:59
maybe try and measure wear. nothing tenifered will wear appreciably, but you might be able to take a micrometer to the frame rails and see a bit of wear.

honestly i've never found a lube situation that could choke a glock.

not to be a wiseass, but this would be a better test to run on a 1911.

STATES
09-26-12, 11:27
Skyugo: I will try that, worse case, it won't show any useful data. Also, I know, Glocks aren't the best choice ... but I am a poor youngin' who doesn't have any suppressed AR's or 1911's. So unless someone wants to chip in and buy me a pair of something better, Glocks it will be :p

Noodles
09-26-12, 14:08
I honestly doubt you will find a visible difference. I have run Fireclean in a class and the result really wasn't any different than the Mobil1 I was running before. I was ready to switch to Fireclean until I saw the cost. I simply refuse to spend the kind of money that Fireclean and Froglube want when I have no carbon or wear issues with my DDM4 or my semiauto handguns running plain old Mobil1 at 1/16th the cost.

Personally... I would put a price on not breathing oil fumes, but to be honest just because Froglube is 98% bio doesn't mean it's much or any better to breathe. I can think of a handful of organic compounds that will kill you right quick. But... I am trying to not purposely breath in oil fumes. Do as you please.

AKDoug
09-27-12, 01:05
While I'm at it I'll also try not to breath in burning gun powder, lead particles and copper particles. Frankly, hot Mobil1 doesn't concern me. Temps in a bolt carrier do not exceed temps in an engine and are far lower than the combustion temperature of engine oil. I've yet to smell any fumes.

orionz06
09-27-12, 08:56
I am not sure that there is anything you will be able to determine other than go/no-go and if it is exceptionally harder to clean or not. Most lube threads are over thought because someone clings to the idea that they can drink their lube or that they won't get breath bad fumes if they lube in a phone booth.

Use a good lube and use it often and you will be fine.

Failure2Stop
09-27-12, 09:38
I have used both FrogLube and FIREclean.

I find that the FIREclean is a better cleaner and makes cleaning easier while still being a good lubricant. Works really well as a carbon barrier on WMLs.

FrogLube has an advantage on carry pistols as it sets up when cool and spreads as a liquid when hot, which keeps the lube from running out the front of your holster when doing the daily carry thing.

I like these two due to their non-toxic nature, as I spend a lot of time with gun gunk on my hands.

nineteenkilo
09-27-12, 09:53
FrogLube has an advantage on carry pistols as it sets up when cool and spreads as a liquid when hot, which keeps the lube from running out the front of your holster when doing the daily carry thing.


I have not used FireClean, but I made the switch to Froglube for the reasons stated above. It seems to do a good job for me and it smells pretty pleasant which has made the wife happier since I clean weapons in the house fairly often.

markm
09-27-12, 10:03
To me the bennies of Froglube aren't as critical on a pistol. The AR is wear it shines like a mofo.

motoduck
09-27-12, 14:55
I have been using the FireClean on several guns for a couple of months. As Jack said above, its a good cleaner and acts as a fine lube. On Supressed rifles and supressed subguns it has cut down on my cleaning times considerably. In addition, it does not "burn" off as quickly as the other lubes did on the suppresesd guns. I have also used it to remove/prevent the carbon build up from muzzel blast on my weapons lights.

DocDorle
09-27-12, 16:20
I prefer SnakeOil for all of my gun cleaning.:rolleyes:

DBR
09-27-12, 19:21
STATES: Do your Glocks a favor and don't remove the copper grease. It is an anti seize lube that helps the rails to seat without galling. Follow Glock's advice and shoot the pistol around 500 rounds before you do any cleaning or lube changes.

In the limited experience I have had with FrogLube it doesn't appear to be a very good extreme pressure lube. The copper grease is an EP lube and better for break in.

STATES
09-28-12, 08:23
DBR: thanks, I read that in the Glock manual, didn't know how worthwhile it was. I'll do that

I also figured Froglube would better in a carry gun because iy wouldn't drip off, so it's good to hear that.

Robb Jensen
09-29-12, 08:50
FIREclean works as advertised. Makes carbon just wipe off. Works better than anything I've ever used on suppressed ARs and doesn't burn off even with fast hot heat cycles (like a few hundred rounds in 30 minutes).

ggammell
09-29-12, 09:25
I'be never seen lube leak off my carry guns. I see the benefit of it on an M4 but not on a Glock.

ggammell
09-29-12, 09:32
Sorry for the duplicate. Browser hung up

kwesi
09-29-12, 10:01
Thanks for the heads up on these products. I'm currently using a new product but had not heard of these.

STATES
09-29-12, 18:52
Robb, I actually picked up the Fireclean from Virginia Arms :D I had heard you really like it.

A friend of mine suggested buying a .22 conversion instead of another Glock, and using it as the test vehicle (because it gets much dirtier, is WAY cheaper to shoot, etc). What about that?

Robb Jensen
09-29-12, 20:05
It works very well with .22s. So for I've used it on my GSG-1911 .22 which has 2K through it now and I haven't cleaned it yet and I also use it on my S&W M&P15-22. Makes cleaning it take 5min.

McNulty
09-29-12, 22:38
I shot a northern red carbine class this weekend and used fireclean. Ate carbon up like no product I've ever seen. Highly recommend it.

AKDoug
11-26-12, 19:54
Time to eat some crow. Rather than start a new thread, I might as well man up in the one I made comments in.

Sometime back I "liked" Fireclean on Facebook. Most likely to try and win some prize or another. I messaged them a link to one of the lube corrosion threads here on M4C. We then struck up a conversation about the fact I live in Alaska and they were interested in sending me a bottle for some cold weather testing. In the interest of full disclosure I informed them of my previous comments in this thread.

Also, I had the chance to try some Fireclean at a Redback1 carbine class just days after making my previous comments in this thread.

1) Upon receiving my bottle my son and I cleaned our rifles with our normal procedure of a combination of brake clean and Hoppes #9. We then applied the Fireclean. There was your normal level of carbon build up on the tail end of our bolts that we didn't scrape off.
2) We went to the range and fired about 200 rounds per rifle. As normal with pretty much any lube I have used, the bolt carrier was still coated in oil. The good part was that the carbon on the bolt tail was loosened by the Fireclean and basically wiped off. Not just the carbon from this shooting session, but carbon built up from before.

Time for cold weather testing. Temps are dropping to -20F at my house and that makes it possible for me to cold sink my guns to that temp easily. My first Fireclean test was to just put a drop on a piece of metal and stick it outside overnight. To my disappointment, it froze to a solid wax like blob. However, that blob was still extremely slick. In contrast, a motor oil like I used in the past gets "sticky" for lack of a better term at those temps.

I decided at that point that I would put light coatings on my XDm, Glock 17, and the two AR's and stick them outside. I honestly figured that they would be all glued shut by morning. Surprisingly, all cycled smoothly, and dry fired just fine. With a thin coat, the Fireclean didn't take on a waxy coating at all.

Last night/this morning was the big test. I absolutely soaked each firearm in Fireclean and immediately stuck them outside. Temps dropped to only -12F last night, but the Fireclean that had dribbled out of the actions had formed lines of frozen waxy Fireclean. I really figured then that they'd all be locked up. I put them in a box, loaded them in the back of my cold truck and took them to a place safe to shoot this morning. All of them cycled a round into the chamber with no issue, fired, cycled and fired 5 rounds each. By this point they'd warmed up enough to ooze Fireclean. My prior conversations with Fireclean revealed that they too thought that too much lube might stop the guns at those cold temps. It's cool that they were wrong.

As temps drop more as winter progresses I hope to get testing in the -40F range temps. These super cold temps are the real test of a gun lube in my country. Most of us just run dry or with graphite at those temps. It'll be interesting to see what happens then.

As an aside, Fireclean says the will be able to do their own cold weather testing soon.

I really like the no smell aspects of the Fireclean in addition to it's non-toxic nature. A 2 ox bottle goes a long way too. I guess it might be worth the price after all ;)

Heavy Metal
11-26-12, 20:06
I was told you have to strip all the old lube off the BCG with either Brake Cleaner or Mineral Spirits first or Fireclean would not work as advertised. BCG must be stripped and cleaned to the bare metal.


I honestly doubt you will find a visible difference. I have run Fireclean in a class and the result really wasn't any different than the Mobil1 I was running before. I was ready to switch to Fireclean until I saw the cost. I simply refuse to spend the kind of money that Fireclean and Froglube want when I have no carbon or wear issues with my DDM4 or my semiauto handguns running plain old Mobil1 at 1/16th the cost.

AKDoug
11-26-12, 20:08
That's what I did with this latest test, except that I didn't scrape the carbon off the bolt tail. Fireclean loosened this carbon after one range session. If it does this, I imagine that carbon build up from here on out will be a non issue.

VIP3R 237
11-26-12, 20:20
Thanks for the info AKDoug. Fireclean asked me for a shipping address 2 months ago but I still havent seen anything so it must be lost in the mail right?

AKDoug
11-27-12, 02:36
I have no clue. I don't even know the guy's name. I just contact them through their Facebook account.


I was told you have to strip all the old lube off the BCG with either Brake Cleaner or Mineral Spirits first or Fireclean would not work as advertised. BCG must be stripped and cleaned to the bare metal.


Looking at their website and contacting them revealed that you only need to clean the weapon with Fireclean and nothing else. Wipe it clean, then reapply Fireclean to treat.

C45P312
11-27-12, 07:09
Looking at their website and contacting them revealed that you only need to clean the weapon with Fireclean and nothing else. Wipe it clean, then reapply Fireclean to treat.
That's what I basically do. After a range session with a suppressed Noveske SBR, I field strip, wipe clean, and reapply fireclean before packing her up and putting her back in the same. Typical range session for me is about 200-300 rounds within a week consisting of zero confirmation, RB1 standards, reload practice, shooting on the move, and injury drills. I haven't used Hoppes #9 in awhile which makes my wife happy. happy wife, happy life right? lol

bluecanary
03-26-13, 19:42
Time to eat some crow. Rather than start a new thread, I might as well man up in the one I made comments in.

As temps drop more as winter progresses I hope to get testing in the -40F range temps. These super cold temps are the real test of a gun lube in my country. Most of us just run dry or with graphite at those temps. It'll be interesting to see what happens then.

As an aside, Fireclean says the will be able to do their own cold weather testing soon.

I really like the no smell aspects of the Fireclean in addition to it's non-toxic nature. A 2 ox bottle goes a long way too. I guess it might be worth the price after all ;)


Any more cold weather test results?

AKDoug
03-26-13, 21:18
That was the coldest it got this winter. I haven't had an issue all winter. I packed that rifle all over hunting this winter without an issue. I've packed the gun with blowing snow, got it wet and let it freeze, basically abused the hell out of it and not a single issue when it came time to shoot. Ditto for my son's rifle and my daughter's 6.8 SPC. In fact, we are headed out again this weekend with our AR's for a caribou hunt, but the temps aren't expected to drop below 15F at the coldest.

I'm running Fireclean in my Glocks and carry Kahr. Smooth as can be and clean up with just a rag.

Is it the end all to lubes? It's good enough that I don't foresee myself changing any time soon.

Michael2007
03-26-13, 23:40
I just applied frog lube for the first time on my dept glock. We will see how it handles 300-400 rds tomorrow. Smells awesome in the house.

johnny00
03-26-13, 23:49
I've been pretty impressed with Froglube. Plus it doesn't smell.

AKDoug
03-26-13, 23:56
I've been pretty impressed with Froglube. Plus it doesn't smell. Did they change the formulation? The Froglube I've seen smells minty...not unpleasant but it smells.

Brian Brazier
03-27-13, 00:39
I have had excellent results with Fireclean, never heard you have to strip the bolt carrier to bare metal, I applied it to a recently cleand BCG, put 1,000rds through the day after, and the carbon just wiped away. I run it on al my guns, I perchased 2 bottles straight from Fireclean for $33, and I have been using the 1st bottle for almost 6 months. Fireclean has no smell, it bonds to all metals, but it bonds to aluminum the fastest, and doesnt burn off as quickly as Frog Lube. Fireclean has produced the best results I have seen yet, I havent tried everything, but quite a few.

kantstudien
03-27-13, 04:52
Get a third Glock 19 and use KY Jelly for lube.

I doubt you will see any difference among the Glocks assuming all things being equal. Would be interested to hear the results though.

PLCedeno
03-27-13, 05:26
Get a third Glock 19 and use KY Jelly for lube.

I doubt you will see any difference among the Glocks assuming all things being equal. Would be interested to hear the results though.

First chuckle of the day.:laugh: Seriously though if you want the gun to make it to the 100000 round mark, lube it with oil.

Heavy Metal
03-30-13, 23:08
I used it on my S&W M&P15-22 today and it worked flawless.

Never had better performance out of that rifle. I am sold.

Michael2007
03-30-13, 23:16
After 1000 rds and 3 days it takes me about 2 minutes to clear the carbon off the breach face barrel etc. a toothpick dipped in the liquid and it ran flawlessly.
I'm sold. I enjoy the minty smell.

Magsz
03-30-13, 23:29
I cant believe you people buy into this garbage...

A fool and his money...

cdvanns
04-07-13, 01:06
I cant believe you people buy into this garbage...

A fool and his money...

Seriously, frogs are really hard to catch let alone lube anything with!:lol:

panzerr
04-07-13, 07:24
I cant believe you people buy into this garbage...

A fool and his money...

Agreed. Fireclean is snake oil.

T2C
04-07-13, 07:34
I picked up some Frog Lube and haven't formed an opinion yet. I'll run it on my pistols for a while. Time will tell.

I still keep Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil and wheel bearing grease on the reloading bench for my rifles. I just use Mobil 1 oil when the temperatures stay in the single digits and haven't seen an AR bolt carrier slow down due to cold weather. The carbon cleans off easier than when I used Break Free CLP.

NoveskeFan
04-07-13, 09:03
I cant believe you people buy into this garbage...

A fool and his money...

Have you used either product? What do you use?

Vulture38
04-07-13, 09:12
I prefer SnakeOil for all of my gun cleaning.:rolleyes:

Hey, that's what the Veep uses..

Magsz
04-07-13, 18:55
Have you used either product? What do you use?

Remember the earlier comment about the fool? Im pretty dumb but im no fool...

I have used Froglube by way of my easily swayed, loose "walleted" buddy.

It looked like lube, it smelled like lube and it worked like lube. My gun even went bang.

I then proceeded to back to the same quart of mobil 1 ive been using for the past five years of HEAVY shooting...

Im all for progressive development but the AR is an internal combustion engine masquerading as a gun. If a damned Indy car can get by on Mobil 1 i am pretty sure my gun will be ok without Navy Seal Jizz liberally spooged all over it...

steyrman13
04-07-13, 19:05
Remember the earlier comment about the fool? Im pretty dumb but im no fool...

I have used Froglube by way of my easily swayed, loose "walleted" buddy.

It looked like lube, it smelled like lube and it worked like lube. My gun even went bang.

I then proceeded to back to the same quart of mobil 1 ive been using for the past five years of HEAVY shooting...

Im all for progressive development but the AR is an internal combustion engine masquerading as a gun. If a damned Indy car can get by on Mobil 1 i am pretty sure my gun will be ok without Navy Seal Jizz liberally spooged all over it...
Do you see the comments from AKDoug in this thread? He was for hard Mobil 1 and then found where FC out preformed in extreme cold.... As well as removing built up carbon. If your not in extreme cold, Mobil 1 is great

Magsz
04-07-13, 19:24
Do you see the comments from AKDoug in this thread? He was for hard Mobil 1 and then found where FC out preformed in extreme cold.... As well as removing built up carbon. If your not in extreme cold, Mobil 1 is great

The coldest ive shot was 31 degrees in Georgia. I had zero issues with Mobil 1.

Rags remove carbon too.

There's a whole lot of "I feel" and "I heard" and "it smells nice" in this thread instead of a whole lot of actual data...

Until someone figures out a way to TEST these lubricants in some quantifiable way i will continue laughing my ass off at the people that shell out money for this shit. I just think its horrifically sad that these companies prey on the inability of the consumer to actually quantify this stuff. Instead, they happily bandy buzz words, marketing speak and allow the market to buy into it.

markm
04-08-13, 15:57
Never tried FireClean... but I can tell you Froglube is a shitload better than Mobil1. I converted after diggin in my cynical heels for a LONG time.

There's no one quicker to call horse shit on a new lube than me. And Froglube is much better at staying put/staying wet in the BCG than Mobil1 ever was for me.

Failure2Stop
04-08-13, 16:02
Never tried FireClean... but I can tell you Froglube is a shitload better than Mobil1. I converted after diggin in my cynical heels for a LONG time.

There's no one quicker to call horse shit on a new lube than me. And Froglube is much better at staying put/staying wet in the BCG than Mobil1 ever was for me.

I've seen FireClean stick around in some pretty challenging areas.
If you get a chance, give the girl a squirt and see how she likes it.

mtdawg169
04-08-13, 16:06
If you get a chance, give the girl a squirt and see how she likes it.

Sigline material :D

markm
04-08-13, 16:08
I'll have to get ahold of some.

sboza
04-08-13, 21:42
Remember the earlier comment about the fool? Im pretty dumb but im no fool...

I have used Froglube by way of my easily swayed, loose "walleted" buddy.

It looked like lube, it smelled like lube and it worked like lube. My gun even went bang.

I then proceeded to back to the same quart of mobil 1 ive been using for the past five years of HEAVY shooting...

Im all for progressive development but the AR is an internal combustion engine masquerading as a gun. If a damned Indy car can get by on Mobil 1 i am pretty sure my gun will be ok without Navy Seal Jizz liberally spooged all over it...

If you're gonna do a closed minded rant over something, at least give it a fair go. My understanding is that froglube is applied for the first time after your weapon is degreased. Then, and this is why I didn't ever switch to froglube, application with heat is required (direct sunlight will supposedly suffice). And the more frequently the product is used, the better the results. It sounds pretty clear that you did not use the product as stated. That aside, since you are such a "HEAVY shooter," you have no doubt dealt with burnt on carbon, particularly on the ar platform. The ease of removal is one of the major claims with froglube and from everything I have heard from end users, the claim holds true ... that is if applied correctly which you apparently were not able to handle.

As for me, I stuck with plain old clp for pistol and m4 platforms for the longest time and it never failed me despite some really crappy environments because I maintained my weapon systems well. I finally switched to m-pro 7 products and my cleaning time went down (easier carbon removal but still a good deal of scraping with a CAT tool). In addition, their oil lasted longer and didn't run quite as much and reapplication was not as frequent. I added in TW-25B greese on some parts that are exposed to high heat or that I want to stay extra smooth (bolt and carrier on m4, where trigger bar meets the connector on a glock as examples). This worked well as the TW-25B doesn't run and I could always add oil if necessary.

I just recently upgraded to fireclean and it has lived up to it's promise. Cleaning is a breeze and I can shoot high volume rapid fire drills for several hundred rounds and still not have a dry bolt. Also, the stuff doesn't run if applied properly (big plus). That's tough for any other oil I have used in the past to match. But that isn't the selling point for me, it's the ease of cleaning after shooting. It is pretty much wipe down and reapply a light coat as instructed (yes, you need to be able to read instructions as fireclean is applied slightly differently from traditional lubes). Cleaning time is now a quarter of what it was. That makes it worth it for me. There is also feedback coming back from folks using it operationally and it is positive so far. Time will tell as far as that goes but in my current usage, it is a great product.

I'm not trying to upsell products here, give me a bottle of clp and I'll be just fine. But there are better products out there today and your closed minded, half assed rants based on improper application of the product and a lack of understanding of what the product is intended to do make your posts useless. As for cost, a little bottle will last for a very, very long time. Use whatever you like to but don't waste people's time with this drivel. It's embarrassing.

foxjordan22
04-08-13, 22:31
Tried both and I like Fireclean. Cleaning is so much easier now and I can feel a difference with and without Fireclean instantly. Use it in my suppressed rifles and handguns.

Magsz
04-09-13, 01:34
Sboza,

Try not to take it so personally. Also, do yourself a favor and don't assume. I made no mention of application process so you know dick all about whether or not I used this lube "correctly".

If you like it, drive on. If you don't like my opinions or the fact that I'm calling out a product that has not been qualified in a quantitative method as "better" yet is hailed as such, I have beach front property to sell you in Chicago.

sboza
04-09-13, 10:53
Sboza,

Try not to take it so personally. Also, do yourself a favor and don't assume. I made no mention of application process so you know dick all about whether or not I used this lube "correctly".

If you like it, drive on. If you don't like my opinions or the fact that I'm calling out a product that has not been qualified in a quantitative method as "better" yet is hailed as such, I have beach front property to sell you in Chicago.

Nothing taken personally guy. Unqualified opinion posts, as yours is, are useless in advancing a conversation. Your input suggested that you used it and your gun went bang. That was your objective criteria to compare to Mobil 1. WTF? If you applied it properly (still doesn't sound like it), good for you. But your test criteria is absurd. If all that is important to you is that "gun goes bang" then by all means do your thing. Like I said, I could do, and did for a very long time, just fine with a bottle of clp.

The reason your input is useless is that it doesn't take into consideration the other benefits of the newer products: stays in place for extended time without running off (verifiable true and reduces maintainance times for some of us who need our weapons for work/daily use), stays "wet" for extended times without reapplication (more subjective but it does for me compared to past products), and most importantly (for those who train/teach a lot), it makes burnt on carbon build-up a thing of the past (if you follow instructions).

Qualified quantitative methods are fine and hopefully mil or some other independent resource will field test these products at some point in time. For those of us that live in the real world, testing out a product for ourselves based on input from others who have used it operationally allows us to improve our capability rather than waiting on a slow moving train. I don't have a problem with those of you that live in the university world of objective proof for everything. But you have to understand that everyone can not live there.

At the end of the day I like fireclean because after initial application process (including degreasing), it makes cleaning faster and crud does not need to be picked/scraped off. I use the amount recommended and at 5-10 drops per gun per cleaning, that $15 bottle seems reasonable to me given that it saves ME a lot of cleaning time.

Your disparaging remarks towards the decisions of other members (many of them with vast knowledge/experience) are what annoy me. And for such a high volume shooter (I think I read a claim of 200000 rounds in three years), why the nasty rants on a $15 product?

Like I said, I have no issue with your use of Mobil 1 or any other lube. My issue is with your attitude and why you felt the need to interject in this thread and belittle the decisions of others? For someone demanding objective analysis for credibility, your rants fell far from that standard you hold others to. Maybe take a step off of that pedestal.

Littlelebowski
04-09-13, 10:58
I haven't had a chance to try it on a gun for a high range count session yet but it sucked out loud compared to FL on my new Spyderco. That being said, I'm dead certain either lube will work fine.

Magsz
04-09-13, 18:02
Sboza,

If i insisted that the sky was always the color red without providing any evidence, what would you say to that assertion?

I am all for free markets and people spending their money however they see fit, however, i take issue with people making unsubstantiated, entirely subjective claims on an internet forum that is supposed to be governed by hard facts. This is an open forum and everyone is free to read and digest however they see fit. I, personally, would rather see someone read a suggestion to buy a quart of motor oil and spend the remaining 10 bucks on 50 rounds of 9mm to go practice.

So far, as i have said before, not a single person in here has actually ascertained WHY frog lube is such a "great" lubricant. If you read past the basic human nature in regard to the purchase, ie the reassurance of the expenditure you see a bunch of guys offering up subjective opinions on a lubricant and essentially stroking their own ego by justifying the purchase.

Everyone wants to believe they are just, that they spent their money wisely and that they have the "best". Very few people are willing to ask questions, or in my case, be a detractor. Challenging the status quo is never easy. As i said prior, i am all for the continued development of weapons technology, i am however, not interested in subjective ideals or feelings. I will repeat myself, no one here has actually proven as to why Frog Lube is so wonderful or why motor oil is inadequate. So far the ONLY person here that has mentioned anything in the way of an issue with motor oil was the one gent that said he had issues in cold temperatures.

My motor oil doesnt run, it doesnt cook off and it has worked as a lubricant in every situation that i have asked it to.

I would like to see some science based research as to why FL is so great instead of a bunch of people simply saying "it works!". So does vagisil...

Jaykayyy
04-09-13, 22:54
Sboza,

I, personally, would rather see someone read a suggestion to buy a quart of motor oil and spend the remaining 10 bucks on 50 rounds of 9mm to go practice.


Where the hell can I find 50rd boxes of 9mm for 10 bucks?

Magsz
04-09-13, 23:59
Where the hell can I find 50rd boxes of 9mm for 10 bucks?

November of 2012, or Walmart if you're obscenely lucky.

Littlelebowski
04-10-13, 07:33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3dAsxzJlug&feature=youtu.be

WS6
04-10-13, 08:23
I haven't had a chance to try it on a gun for a high range count session yet but it sucked out loud compared to FL on my new Spyderco. That being said, I'm dead certain either lube will work fine.

What did you use it for on the knife?

Littlelebowski
04-10-13, 08:27
What did you use it for on the knife?

Not protection as it's a Salt (pretty much impervious to corrosion) but for lubing the contact points on the blade/frame and locking mechanism. Noticeable improvement over FireClean. I'll prolly use FireClean this weekend for a carbine shoot with my 5.45 if the targets are 5.45 friendly.

WS6
04-10-13, 08:30
Not protection as it's a Salt (pretty much impervious to corrosion) but for lubing the contact points on the blade/frame and locking mechanism. Noticeable improvement over FireClean. I'll prolly use FireClean this weekend for a carbine shoot with my 5.45 if the targets are 5.45 friendly.

Gotcha. Fireclean/Froglube prevents simply have not met my demands in a product for corrosion resistance. Clean appropriately. I've had Froglube rust stuff up overnight in the real world (shooting, not nails in the kitchen). Fireclean did worse than Froglube "in the kitchen". So be careful with it. I would like to note, though---and this is entirely subjective---that I bought a new RAPTOR Charging handle and lubed one side with FireClean, and one side with MPro7LPX, and cycled it a dozen or so times with each hand, as evenly as I could. The FireClean treated side showed MUCH less wear. Hardly scientific, but I was impressed. If your requirements place lubrication ahead of corrosion resistance, I think FireClean is a definite consideration.

Trajan
04-10-13, 08:53
Remember the earlier comment about the fool? Im pretty dumb but im no fool...

I have used Froglube by way of my easily swayed, loose "walleted" buddy.

It looked like lube, it smelled like lube and it worked like lube. My gun even went bang.

I then proceeded to back to the same quart of mobil 1 ive been using for the past five years of HEAVY shooting...

Im all for progressive development but the AR is an internal combustion engine masquerading as a gun. If a damned Indy car can get by on Mobil 1 i am pretty sure my gun will be ok without Navy Seal Jizz liberally spooged all over it...

I've been using Buzzy's Slick Honey, which is a bike fork grease. $20 for 16 oz, essentially a lifetime supply. It works similar to how I hear Frog lube described; aka its a grease, heats up and gets "wetter" then cools back down to a grease.

The fact that that stuff works so well for me makes me want to think that the whole lubrication thing is way over thought. Just keep your gun lubed up and it'll be good.

Failure2Stop
04-10-13, 09:17
I've been using Buzzy's Slick Honey, which is a bike fork grease. $20 for 16 oz, essentially a lifetime supply. It works similar to how I hear Frog lube described; aka its a grease, heats up and gets "wetter" then cools back down to a grease.

The fact that that stuff works so well for me makes me want to think that the whole lubrication thing is way over thought. Just keep your gun lubed up and it'll be good.

And it's non-toxic?

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

Trajan
04-10-13, 09:50
And it's non-toxic?

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

I'm going to guess no by the "Keep out of reach of children" and "In case of swallowing, consult a physician".

It doesn't have any fumes or anything if that's what you're asking. Just can't eat it or put it in your eyes.

mtdawg169
04-10-13, 10:04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3dAsxzJlug&feature=youtu.be

I can't get any audio on that video. What are we looking at?

Littlelebowski
04-10-13, 10:18
I can't get any audio on that video. What are we looking at?

Reading is fundamental :D

From the link:


LaRue MG Lube (far left) vs. Weapon Shield (middle) vs. Froglube Paste


This is a test WS6 did.

SPQR476
04-10-13, 10:20
We're running FireClean on the Dynamics side. Been so happy with it that we're going to switch to using it on all our testing guns at Industries. Saving on cleaning time is a pretty big thing when testing 10 suppressed rifle combinations in a day.

Failure2Stop
04-10-13, 10:29
I'm going to guess no by the "Keep out of reach of children" and "In case of swallowing, consult a physician".

It doesn't have any fumes or anything if that's what you're asking. Just can't eat it or put it in your eyes.

My question was socratic.
Non toxicity is one of the main thrusts of these new lubricants.


Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

mtdawg169
04-10-13, 10:39
Reading is fundamental :D

From the link:



This is a test WS6 did.

Thanks LL. I'll go back to read the description.

PLCedeno
04-10-13, 17:53
Gotcha. Fireclean/Froglube prevents rust slightly better than spit. Clean appropriately. I've had Froglube rust stuff up overnight in the real world (shooting, not nails in the kitchen). Fireclean did worse than Froglube "in the kitchen". So be careful with it.

I'm usually quick on the up-take but what does any of this mean? Is this comedy or does it mean FireClean/Frog Lube are only good as a lubricants but do not protect agaist corrosion?

mayonaise
04-10-13, 18:08
I use Froglube carbon cutter to remove the anti-sieze lube in Glocks daily. It's great for that. Then a blast of gun scrubber to get the water out of the slide.

If it weren't supplied at work, I wouldn't use it. Way overpriced for what it does IMO.

VIP3R 237
04-10-13, 18:13
Gotcha. Fireclean/Froglube prevents rust slightly better than spit. Clean appropriately. I've had Froglube rust stuff up overnight in the real world (shooting, not nails in the kitchen). Fireclean did worse than Froglube "in the kitchen". So be careful with it.

Same here with the Froglube. I live in the desert and had rust show up with Froglube. Combine that with the tedious application and i don't think its worth it to me.

Lamented
04-10-13, 22:46
Not to hi jack the thread. But has any one here used Gunzilla?
I have heard it works way better than Frog Lube or anything else on the market. I would like to see a comparison between Gunzilla and Fire Clean

VIP3R 237
04-10-13, 23:07
Not to hi jack the thread. But has any one here used Gunzilla?
I have heard it works way better than Frog Lube or anything else on the market. I would like to see a comparison between Gunzilla and Fire Clean

Gunzilla is good with clean up, but it is way too fluid and runs and burns off very fast to really care about it as a lubricant.

I'm still a SL!P 2000 fan myself, especially the EWL.

WS6
04-10-13, 23:10
I'm usually quick on the up-take but what does any of this mean? Is this comedy or does it mean FireClean/Frog Lube are only good as a lubricants but do not protect agaist corrosion?

It means I dumped froglube after my bolt-carrier both got rust on them after I switched to it. Since going to a different product, and maintaining things much less meticulously even, I have no more rust-speckles. When I tested FireClean vs. Froglube with saltwater, it did much worse than FL. I never ran it on a weapon to say, but if FL failed me, I can't imagine FC working.

Short story?

-Lubed the shit out of my Noveske with FL and left for Arkansas (I live in Louisiana) .
-Went and shot 120 rounds of MK318 SOST suppressed in humid (but no rain) NW AR.
-Drove from range to a friend's house where I took the rifle down, wiped everything with a microfiber cloth, leaving a wet "sheen" instead of the caking that was on the parts.
-Set the rifle in a corner and went and had supper, hung out, etc.
-Put the rifle back in the zip-up case and drive home the next morning.
-Cleaned it that night. Orange rust speckles on the bolt tail. Removed them with rubbing and more FL. Dark stains remained. The Froglube felt like Elmer's glue a week later. Stripped it out with heat, alcohol, etc. and transitioned to another product and haven't looked back.

Failure2Stop
04-10-13, 23:22
Something I have noticed with all lubricants/protectants is that they need to be clean and dry when the product is applied, otherwise they simply trap the contaminant under the product in contact with metal. Kinda like painting over rust.
I wipe the parts clean with a good carbon cutter, hit it with some non-chlorinated brake cleaner, and chase with pressurized air and/or a heat gun, and then apply the product.
I have left guns that were treated this way in wet pelican cases for days with no rust appearing on the treated parts. It seems that non-toxic/non-petroleum products need a little more prep-work for anti-corrosion.

WS6
04-10-13, 23:24
Something I have noticed with all lubricants/protectants is that they need to be clean and dry when the product is applied, otherwise they simply trap the contaminant under the product in contact with metal. Kinda like painting over rust.
I wipe the parts clean with a good carbon cutter, hit it with some non-chlorinated brake cleaner, and chase with pressurized air and/or a heat gun, and then apply the product.
I have left guns that were treated this way in wet pelican cases for days with no rust appearing on the treated parts. It seems that non-toxic/non-petroleum products need a little more prep-work for anti-corrosion.

Would chemical de-greasing with 91% ISA and then heating in an oven before applying count? That's what I did. Maybe I needed to chemically de-grease and re-heat immediately after shooting the weapon, too, instead of just wiping. Screw that. Give me my petro-products!

VIP3R 237
04-10-13, 23:27
and chase with pressurized air and/or a heat gun, and then apply the product.


F2S, i think you hit upon a good point with the heat gun. My thoughts are that heating up the parts first may allow the pores to open up in the material to allow the product to penetrate better. At least it sounds good in my mind.

Failure2Stop
04-10-13, 23:29
Would chemical de-greasing with 91% ISA and then heating in an oven before applying count? That's what I did. Maybe I needed to chemically de-grease and re-heat immediately after shooting the weapon, too, instead of just wiping. Screw that. Give me my petro-products!

HA, yeah, I would think that would count.

I wish there was a well funded, non-biased, company/organization that could really test these products under applicable controlled conditions to determine actual performance.

WS6
04-10-13, 23:36
HA, yeah, I would think that would count.

I wish there was a well funded, non-biased, company/organization that could really test these products under applicable controlled conditions to determine actual performance.

I agree. However, in the real world, under heavy combat, and in adverse conditions, Froglube failed me.

Wait...that's not exactly true.

Slow-firing 120 rounds at a WMA range from a bench under a covered awning and then cleaning the rifle immediately after, Froglube failed me.

I guess I'm just seriously against any product that shits the bed under such circumstances in my own personal experience. I gave all of it away except a small bottle for future messing with and now run MPro7-LPX, which has yet to fail me in any way, whether it's a 3-day 1500+ round carbine course with no re-lubing or cleaning, or just keeping things preserved while they sit.

Failure2Stop
04-10-13, 23:36
F2S, i think you hit upon a good point with the heat gun. My thoughts are that heating up the parts first may allow the pores to open up in the material to allow the product to penetrate better. At least it sounds good in my mind.

From what I know about materials used in firearm manufacturing I am highly skeptical about opening pores at temperatures that are conducive to handling.

I mostly like heat because it dries left over cleaner, softens residual carbon fouling, and makes the product flow into nooks and crannies faster then when at room temperature (evaporation of brake cleaner/carbon blaster/etc cools the metal).

Failure2Stop
04-10-13, 23:38
I agree. However, in the real world, under heavy combat, and in adverse conditions, Froglube failed me.


I had FrogLube fail as well, which is one of the reasons that I started using FireClean exclusively.

WS6
04-10-13, 23:43
I had FrogLube fail as well, which is one of the reasons that I started using FireClean exclusively.

You used to be all about it. Did I miss where it failed? I have some Fireclean myself. It seems like a great lube, but very poor for corrosion just in my *kitchen testing*

Failure2Stop
04-11-13, 00:09
You used to be all about it. Did I miss where it failed? I have some Fireclean myself. It seems like a great lube, but very poor for corrosion just in my *kitchen testing*

I started using FL right after it came to market, as it was "the" non-toxic solution, so I shared my experience as it was gained.

It failed under a unique condition, and I won't throw anybody under the bus for a single issue that I have not tested or attempted to replicate. FireClean takes a different approach than FrogLube, and it has been working very well under all conditions I have exposed it to as far as functional lubricant on a variety of systems.

I kinda feel like I'm being perceived as touting these products as cures to all ails, which I really am not intentionally doing. I use a specific product for deep carbon cleaning, another for copper removal, and another for anti-corrosion (really, I use CLP the most for exposed metal that doesn't need to be lubricated, not because it's the best but because I have plenty of it on hand). I have had handgun sights rust that continued to rust after using everything I could put my paws on. In the end I realized that I would just have to be more meticulous in timely maintenance if they were exposed to corrosive conditions.

One thing that I really like FL for is to give a good coating to mounted light lenses to make clean-up easier. Well, that, and I like the paste on handguns since it stays in place, and Glocks aren't highly lube-dependent to start with. Yes, FC does a good job on light lenses as well, but it's easier to just smear some on the lens when I dab it on the rest of the pistol with the FL paste.

At the end of the day, it's lube. Anything is better than nothing, and to me, non-toxic is better than toxic even if I have to use it more often (unless discussing long-term storage). There are few topics that I find less productive than arguing about lubricants.

VIP3R 237
04-11-13, 00:11
From what I know about materials used in firearm manufacturing I am highly skeptical about opening pores at temperatures that are conducive to handling.

I mostly like heat because it dries left over cleaner, softens residual carbon fouling, and makes the product flow into nooks and crannies faster then when at room temperature (evaporation of brake cleaner/carbon blaster/etc cools the metal).

Yeah it was just a theory. Thanks for the clarification.

PLCedeno
04-11-13, 07:01
It means I dumped froglube after my bolt-carrier both got rust on them after I switched to it. Since going to a different product, and maintaining things much less meticulously even, I have no more rust-speckles. When I tested FireClean vs. Froglube with saltwater, it did much worse than FL. I never ran it on a weapon to say, but if FL failed me, I can't imagine FC working.

Short story?

-Lubed the shit out of my Noveske with FL and left for Arkansas (I live in Louisiana) .
-Went and shot 120 rounds of MK318 SOST suppressed in humid (but no rain) NW AR.
-Drove from range to a friend's house where I took the rifle down, wiped everything with a microfiber cloth, leaving a wet "sheen" instead of the caking that was on the parts.
-Set the rifle in a corner and went and had supper, hung out, etc.
-Put the rifle back in the zip-up case and drive home the next morning.
-Cleaned it that night. Orange rust speckles on the bolt tail. Removed them with rubbing and more FL. Dark stains remained. The Froglube felt like Elmer's glue a week later. Stripped it out with heat, alcohol, etc. and transitioned to another product and haven't looked back.
Gotcha. This experience should settle it. Weapons Shield for me.

Boss Hogg
04-11-13, 07:01
It means I dumped froglube after my bolt-carrier both got rust on them after I switched to it. Since going to a different product, and maintaining things much less meticulously even, I have no more rust-speckles. When I tested FireClean vs. Froglube with saltwater, it did much worse than FL. I never ran it on a weapon to say, but if FL failed me, I can't imagine FC working.

Short story?

-Lubed the shit out of my Noveske with FL and left for Arkansas (I live in Louisiana) .
-Went and shot 120 rounds of MK318 SOST suppressed in humid (but no rain) NW AR.
-Drove from range to a friend's house where I took the rifle down, wiped everything with a microfiber cloth, leaving a wet "sheen" instead of the caking that was on the parts.
-Set the rifle in a corner and went and had supper, hung out, etc.
-Put the rifle back in the zip-up case and drive home the next morning.
-Cleaned it that night. Orange rust speckles on the bolt tail. Removed them with rubbing and more FL. Dark stains remained. The Froglube felt like Elmer's glue a week later. Stripped it out with heat, alcohol, etc. and transitioned to another product and haven't looked back.

WS6- what was your saltwater test?

WS6
04-11-13, 07:21
WS6- what was your saltwater test?

Nothing special. Random concentration of salt-water saturating toilet-tissue laid across a "treated" (with various lubricants) allen-wrench with the surface sanded shiny.

Repeatedly my results were, from best to worst

Gunslick foaming gun oil (This stuff is just absurd. Flat out insane rust prevention.)

_______
CLP (Very very good.)
MPro7-LPX (Very good. No worries)
______________________
Weaponshield (Good, about what you expect. No surprises either way from an oil. Better than motor oil.)
Froglube (Excellent when layered thick as a paste as a "barrier" rust preventative. Pretty crappy as a "film" wiped on.)
______________________
Fireclean (It might work better than spitting on it.)

Separated into "tiers" of performance I observed.

Boss Hogg
04-11-13, 07:47
Nothing special. Random concentration of salt-water saturating toilet-tissue laid across a "treated" (with various lubricants) allen-wrench with the surface sanded shiny.

Repeatedly my results were, from best to worst

Gunslick foaming gun oil (This stuff is just absurd. Flat out insane rust prevention.)

_______
CLP (Very very good.)
MPro7-LPX (Very good. No worries)
______________________
Weaponshield (Good, about what you expect. No surprises either way from an oil. Better than motor oil.)
Froglube (Excellent when layered thick as a paste as a "barrier" rust preventative. Pretty crappy as a "film" wiped on.)
______________________
Fireclean (It might work better than spitting on it.)

Separated into "tiers" of performance I observed.

Toilet paper on an Allen wrench?

http://www.boomershooter.com/forums/index.php/topic/11116-gun-oil-corrosion-test/page-3

WS6
04-11-13, 08:10
Toilet paper on an Allen wrench?

http://www.boomershooter.com/forums/index.php/topic/11116-gun-oil-corrosion-test/page-3

Rust tests are funny like that, but my real-world usage has backed up my personal results, with Froglube allowing my weapon to rust, and CLP and LPX preventing it.

TP slowly dried, holding the salt-water on the substrate longer and through varying humidity conditions until dry. It's brutal.

223to45
04-11-13, 19:04
So if someone is not putting 10,000 rds a year through their gun, can one really tell the difference between FrogLube , FireClean , and Mpro7??

WS6
04-11-13, 19:16
So if someone is not putting 10,000 rds a year through their gun, can one really tell the difference between FrogLube , FireClean , and Mpro7??

Well for someone putting a few thousand a year through their gun, it doesn't rust up with Mpro7 like it does with Froglube. That's my observation, anyway. Corrosion on the bolt and carrier is no bueno.

Littlelebowski
04-11-13, 19:30
I live in a humid environment and oddly enough haven't had any problems with FL. I don't doubt F2S or WS6 but I haven't had any rust problems with FL on 5.56 guns. I've had corrosion from every lube I've tried on my 5.45. So I rinse it with water and add more. Problem solved.

223to45
04-11-13, 19:42
I live in a humid environment and oddly enough haven't had any problems with FL. I don't doubt F2S or WS6 but I haven't had any rust problems with FL on 5.56 guns. I've had corrosion from every lube I've tried on my 5.45. So I rinse it with water and add more. Problem solved.


I live on the wet side of WA state and never had corrosion problems. I had weapons before I really got into them, never lubed and stored for years at a time no corrosion problems.

So far no corrosion from my 5.45, but mine has only seen Silver Bear so far.

So WS6 what area are you from??

T2C
04-11-13, 20:32
I view Frog Lube like the foaming bore cleaners that came onto the market. I tried the foaming bore cleaners and went back to my old cleaning regimen after using them for one year. I picked up Frog Lube after reading another thread on this site and thought I would give it a try. It doesn't seem to do any more than some of the other lubricants I tried. I will use it until it runs out and I do not plan on buying any more of it.

Based on my own experience I am going back to Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil and wheel bearing grease for weapons lube. I used motor oil when I worked in a very humid environment in the early 1980s and it worked just as well if not better than the CLP I was issued. I started using synthetic motor oil when it came on the market and have been using it for years. I have participated in high round count training evolutions and never had an AR-15, M-14 or 1911 weapon platform fail me because of lube.

WS6
04-11-13, 22:58
I live on the wet side of WA state and never had corrosion problems. I had weapons before I really got into them, never lubed and stored for years at a time no corrosion problems.

So far no corrosion from my 5.45, but mine has only seen Silver Bear so far.

So WS6 what area are you from??

Louisiana. My firearms stay in 45-55% hum. Range. The rust occurred in fayetteville, ar, and home.

WS6
04-20-13, 20:26
Day two of streetfighter my MPro7 LPX is still doing its job, but feels gritty. Felt gritty day one. Few guys are running fireclean and their guns are like glass. Gonna have to clean and relube with fireclean for day.three.

VA_Dinger
04-21-13, 00:25
I have no personal experience with FrogLube, but I've used FIREclean for the past year and it's simply outstanding.

Best lube/cleaner I've used yet.

223to45
04-22-13, 16:52
So what happen on day 3 ??

Tuukka
04-30-13, 03:48
Dave from FIREClean stopped by at our stand during the IWA expo in Germany. He introduced the product and left several samples to us to try out.

I had a HK416 that needed a cleanup. I did not even follow their instructions properly, just wanted to clean it quickly before going home that day.

Applied the FIREClean on all of the fouled parts and let them sit for a few minutes.

Then just wiped the fouling off. The HK416 / HK417 have been really user friendly with regards to ease of cleaning, but this really did the trick the easiest that I have seen.

The rifle had c. 2-3K rounds through it after the last proper clean ( estimate as I don’t run an exact log book on this particular one )

http://www.aseutra.fi/assets/images/Ase_Utra_test_HK416_cleaned.jpg

Looks to work well, I have now applied the lube to my competition Glock also.

I am usually doubtful, as many here probably are, about something new that "does it all", whether that is in lubes or anything else related to firearms. I will see how it performs in the long run.

Regards!

Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors

WS6
04-30-13, 04:24
So what happen on day 3 ??

Nothing special, really. Carbine feels about the same as it did with LPX, nothing rusted, worked fine. It wasn't rougher, wasn't smoother. There was, however, more carbon build up on the bolt tail. Everything else seemed identical to the LPX product.

I removed this information from this forum because one of the manufacturers of the products contacted me and was not pleased with my test method.

WS6
04-30-13, 05:21
I removed this information from this forum because one of the manufacturers of the products contacted me and was not pleased with my test methodology.

sinlessorrow
05-01-13, 14:19
[QUOTE=WS6;1628602]Little test I'm doing, take it FWIW to you.
-Sanded/bare allen wrench
-Saltwater laden 4-plies of toilet tissue (2 ply, folded)
-Heat-gun (Froglube side of allen wrench was heated).
-Time

[

I don't see that as a good way to show rust prevention. The cloth will negatively affect alot of lubricants and I cannot remember the last time I wrapped my rifle in a salt water cloth. A better way would be to spray it with salt water mist.

markm
05-01-13, 14:39
So what happen on day 3 ??

Jesus rose in fulfillment of the Scriptures.

Moltke
05-01-13, 14:46
Just find something that works well, make sure you can afford it and that it's available, and move on.

cqbdoc10
05-01-13, 14:51
Another nice thing is the published coefficient of friction. Very very low. Lowest, ever, they claim...I googled really fast and couldn't find one lower (other than air/magnet bearings), so who knows?

Easy to find:

Coefficient of Friction of Ice on Steel: 0.03
Coefficient of Friction of Ice on Ice: 0.02
Coefficient of Friction of Rand CLP (Ball Bearings): 0.017
Coefficient of Friction of Synovial Fluid (Cartilage): 0.0044-0.0057
Coefficient of Friction of Tendon-Tendon Sheath Interface: 0.0013 (lubricated with Synovial Fluid)

WS6
05-01-13, 18:30
Easy to find:

Coefficient of Friction of Ice on Steel: 0.03
Coefficient of Friction of Ice on Ice: 0.02
Coefficient of Friction of Rand CLP (Ball Bearings): 0.017
Coefficient of Friction of Synovial Fluid (Cartilage): 0.0044-0.0057
Coefficient of Friction of Tendon-Tendon Sheath Interface: 0.0013 (lubricated with Synovial Fluid)

Rand CLP is 0.008. Maybe not the best, then, but pretty darn good!

Littlelebowski
05-01-13, 20:36
Just looked at Rand CLP. They lost me at "nano infused."

WS6
05-01-13, 22:08
Just looked at Rand CLP. They lost me at "nano infused."

Whatever works. I love the stuff, and the lab data backs it. I agree that the catch-phrase is over-used, but what else would you call it? It's a technical description. "Nanoparticle" is a scientific term for a particle 1-100nanometers in size. "Infused" goes without needing definition. If a product contains a base oil ("vegetable" is what Rand claims, dunno which veggie...) that has a certain percentage by weight of particles in this size added to it, then what else should it be called? I get what you mean about the negative connotation, but it really is an accurate term if factual, and Rand Innovations does exactly what the name implies.

Littlelebowski
05-02-13, 12:16
Whatever works. I love the stuff, and the lab data backs it. I agree that the catch-phrase is over-used, but what else would you call it? It's a technical description. "Nanoparticle" is a scientific term for a particle 1-100nanometers in size. "Infused" goes without needing definition. If a product contains a base oil ("vegetable" is what Rand claims, dunno which veggie...) that has a certain percentage by weight of particles in this size added to it, then what else should it be called? I get what you mean about the negative connotation, but it really is an accurate term if factual, and Rand Innovations does exactly what the name implies.

You're probably right but the marketing term....it burns.

AKDoug
05-03-13, 00:04
Lets face it, the best rust preventative for guns is cosmonline..but it's lousy lube. Because of where I live I value my gun lubes in a different order than somebody in LA or FL. Storage moisture generally isn't an issue here, so rust preventative is low on my list. If it provides good lubricity, ease of carbon cleanup, and good cold weather performance; those are the most important things to me. I certainly can understand why rust prevention would be a huge issue in some areas.

WS6
05-03-13, 01:29
Lets face it, the best rust preventative for guns is cosmonline..but it's lousy lube. Because of where I live I value my gun lubes in a different order than somebody in LA or FL. Storage moisture generally isn't an issue here, so rust preventative is low on my list. If it provides good lubricity, ease of carbon cleanup, and good cold weather performance; those are the most important things to me. I certainly can understand why rust prevention would be a huge issue in some areas.

I would think due to condensation, Alaska would make corrosion prevention an important factor, as well.

AKDoug
05-03-13, 21:00
Depends where you are at. Since our land mass is 1/5 of the U.S. you can imagine that there are many different areas of the state. I pulled a 1917 Enfield barreled action out of my shed the other day that was just tossed onto the top of some boxes 18 years ago . A couple tiny specs of rust that I don't even know if they were there before I threw it in there. I have guns projects that are in the top of my closet for that long also without any preservative (oil or anything else) that haven't rusted a bit.

I've been using Fireclean since the beginning of the winter and I haven't had an issue with rust. However, you can see by the other guns I have, rust never is an issue where I live. They get wet all the time, but overall the humidity is so low that once dried and in storage they really don't have a problem anyway. Condensation can be an issue. I've brought guns in from the cold and have them condensate badly. However, I've yet to have one rust because of it. Especially any AR with proper military phosphate coating on it's steel parts.

WS6
05-03-13, 22:53
Depends where you are at. Since our land mass is 1/5 of the U.S. you can imagine that there are many different areas of the state. I pulled a 1917 Enfield barreled action out of my shed the other day that was just tossed onto the top of some boxes 18 years ago . A couple tiny specs of rust that I don't even know if they were there before I threw it in there. I have guns projects that are in the top of my closet for that long also without any preservative (oil or anything else) that haven't rusted a bit.

I've been using Fireclean since the beginning of the winter and I haven't had an issue with rust. However, you can see by the other guns I have, rust never is an issue where I live. They get wet all the time, but overall the humidity is so low that once dried and in storage they really don't have a problem anyway. Condensation can be an issue. I've brought guns in from the cold and have them condensate badly. However, I've yet to have one rust because of it. Especially any AR with proper military phosphate coating on it's steel parts.
I always figured all of Alaska got cold during the winter. I guess kindof how people think all of la is a swamp.

Hawaiianbro10
09-20-13, 16:03
I have used both and I will say after shooting 500 rounds some rapid some paced that fireclean fends to be a little cleaner looking than frog lube though I don't see much of a difference. I usually tend to buy which ever is cheapest when I need gun lube.


I am curious about the mobile1 idea what weight do u use? 0w/20 5w/20?

BoringGuy45
09-20-13, 23:19
Fireclean intrigues me, but I've got everything covered in Froglube. I don't know if I should clean them all off and start over, or just keep using FL...

*Sigh* every time I get something cool, something cooler comes out...

walker2713
09-22-13, 15:41
Great thread....good info!

hunt_ak
09-23-13, 02:08
Over two years into using FIREClean, here are my thoughts on the subject...

http://www.thealaskalife.com/guns/fireclean-gun-oil/

PLCedeno
09-23-13, 07:16
Over two years into using FIREClean, here are my thoughts on the subject...

http://www.thealaskalife.com/guns/fireclean-gun-oil/

Well written. Seems like the only question mark may be its ability as a rust preventer in the parts of the country with high humidity. My basement requires a de-humidifier and one in the safe. As such, Weapons Shield works for me. Considering I only have a couple of ounces left in the bottle this topic is becoming very important.

hunt_ak
09-23-13, 08:18
Thanks. Regarding prevention, I haven't done anything 'real world' that can lead you to believe it can fill the shoes you're looking for. Regarding rust removal, it seems to eat it right up. A dab and a bit of rubbing has been all that was needed for many small parts that needed attention (been coating firearms for over 3 years now...I've seen lots of rust), and its all been done off that same tester bottle.

Psalms144.1
09-23-13, 08:58
Hunt AK - is Fireclean a "only use this product" product like Froglube? I really like FL as a lubricant, but have found it to be well below average on rust prevention. If FC can be used as a lube in conjuction with a proven rust preventer externally, that would be ideal for me...

Thanks for your review!

Regards,

Kevin

hunt_ak
09-23-13, 09:03
I could speculate on the topic but won't since I don't want to give misleading information. I do know that it has been used in applications such as a lubricant for fishing reels (where rust prevention would be needed) successfully. I'll try and bend Ed's ear and see what he says.....

hunt_ak
09-24-13, 01:22
From the FIREClean guys:

"FC works well as a rust preventative, also as a rust remover (use #0000 steel wool to start). For best results don't mix FC with other products. Hope this helps!"

So they echo my statements as a rust remover, and I haven't seen any rust issues since I've been using it, but as always YMMV...

WS6
09-24-13, 02:20
From the FIREClean guys:

"FC works well as a rust preventative, also as a rust remover (use #0000 steel wool to start). For best results don't mix FC with other products. Hope this helps!"

So they echo my statements as a rust remover, and I haven't seen any rust issues since I've been using it, but as always YMMV...

Initially when I tested it with solution approximating 50mmol NaCl, as found in sweat (CCW on a hot day simulated), it performed poorly.

However, in a "clean" environment with high humidity (100% at times), it has performed VERY well. Taking it inside/outside/inside and the accompanying condensation should not harm a FireClean lubed weapon component.

hunt_ak
09-24-13, 03:09
Good to know. Thanks...

T2C
09-24-13, 06:33
I have used both and I will say after shooting 500 rounds some rapid some paced that fireclean fends to be a little cleaner looking than frog lube though I don't see much of a difference. I usually tend to buy which ever is cheapest when I need gun lube.


I am curious about the mobile1 idea what weight do u use? 0w/20 5w/20?

I have used Mobil 1 10W30 and 5W30 motor oil with good results. I typically shoot 300-500 rounds when I take my AR carbine to the range. On a few occasions when I fired 1,000+ rounds in one day, I put a few drops of oil on the bolt and carrier during my lunch break.

For applications where I don't want the lube to fling off, such as the op rod on a M1A or M1 Garand, I use wheel bearing grease. Once my tub of Pennzoil wheel bearing grease is used up, I am going to buy some synthetic wheel bearing grease and give it a try.

I tried Frog Lube and out of curiosity I am considering giving Fireclean a try on one of my carbines and my Glock 19.

Christopher
09-25-13, 03:58
What about Break Free CLP?

WS6
09-25-13, 04:05
What about Break Free CLP?

It tends to burn off a LOT faster, and contains a lot of junk that you don't want in your lungs or on your hands. It kindof doesn't belong in this discussion as it differs so much from the other two being discussed.

Seal 1
Rand CLP
Ballistol

Those are product alternatives, IMO.

Christopher
09-25-13, 04:54
It tends to burn off a LOT faster, and contains a lot of junk that you don't want in your lungs or on your hands. It kindof doesn't belong in this discussion as it differs so much from the other two being discussed.

Seal 1
Rand CLP
Ballistol

Those are product alternatives, IMO.


Ok then, how does Ballistol compare to the other 2 being discussed? :help::D

ruchik
09-26-13, 21:19
Fireclean does indeed live up to its claims. So does Froglube. I find both to be basically identical, except that one smells minty fresh. The solution I have come up with is to simply use both. I use the Froglube paste on anything that needs to be stored for a long time, and I use Fireclean on anything that I plan to use immediately. A word of caution, however; Fireclean, being an oil, WILL run out of the gun eventually, especially if it's hot outside. There's no way around it.

PLCedeno
09-27-13, 01:33
Do you mean flow out or evaporate?

ruchik
09-27-13, 02:15
Evaporate would be the better term. After a while in my car, I'll notice that the liquid itself isn't there anymore, but there's definitely an oily residue left.

Failure2Stop
09-27-13, 09:10
Evaporate would be the better term. After a while in my car, I'll notice that the liquid itself isn't there anymore, but there's definitely an oily residue left.

I use FC on muzzle devices, stored muzzle up in racks. Still wet months later.


Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

ruchik
09-27-13, 15:31
*scratches head* Am I doing something wrong then? I can't see how I'm doing anything different. Just wipe it on with a brush, leave it in my car when its hot, or just leave it for a week or so in my room, and the stuff is definitely not there anymore.

Failure2Stop
09-27-13, 21:21
*scratches head* Am I doing something wrong then? I can't see how I'm doing anything different. Just wipe it on with a brush, leave it in my car when its hot, or just leave it for a week or so in my room, and the stuff is definitely not there anymore.

Sorry if I came across brashly, was in the middle of a long road trip (playing navigator).

I think we may be at odds due to perception of "wet", or possibly due to your gun's finish.

Let me start anew:
On degreased finishes that are work-worn, after applying a generous (but not dripping) coat with a fingertip, there will still be a visually and physically identifiable "wetness" to the surface even after months of storage.

What is the surface that you are applying to?



Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

denn1911
09-27-13, 23:29
After reading this thread and outside research, I bought a bottle of FC today. I plan to put it to use this weekend. I'll post a short follow up with my results.

ruchik
09-28-13, 00:08
Sorry if I came across brashly, was in the middle of a long road trip (playing navigator).

I think we may be at odds due to perception of "wet", or possibly due to your gun's finish.

Let me start anew:
On degreased finishes that are work-worn, after applying a generous (but not dripping) coat with a fingertip, there will still be a visually and physically identifiable "wetness" to the surface even after months of storage.

What is the surface that you are applying to?



Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

I've applied it to my handguns, on every surface I can see. They have been cleaned and de-greased. On every handgun I've applied this stuff too, after 2-3 weeks, there will be a really odd smell coming from the gun, along with a physically dry surface. There will be some sort of residual film left on the gun, but it's definitely not "wet" in any way. More like a dry film.

Abraham
09-30-13, 16:20
Are there different variations of FC, i.e., oil and grease?

Or, is there only one FC?

samuse
09-30-13, 21:52
What about Break Free CLP?

The original gov't issued BF CLP was pretty good stuff. It's all I used to use.
A few years back, they changed it and it I never even tried it because I heard it sucked.

I switched to Slip 200 EWL after I tried a bottle that came as swag from BCM.

I like it. It's supposedly non-toxic and it does not let any smut stick to anything. Just wipe the upper or whatever out with a paper shop towel and dump more lube in.

Christopher
10-01-13, 00:04
The original gov't issued BF CLP was pretty good stuff. It's all I used to use.
A few years back, they changed it and it I never even tried it because I heard it sucked.

I switched to Slip 200 EWL after I tried a bottle that came as swag from BCM.

I like it. It's supposedly non-toxic and it does not let any smut stick to anything. Just wipe the upper or whatever out with a paper shop towel and dump more lube in.


Awesome thanks.

BTL BRN
10-01-13, 13:03
Are there different variations of FC, i.e., oil and grease?

Or, is there only one FC?

Oil is all I have ever seen, if you are familiar with Slip 2000 it is very similiar both in initial viscosity and color; however it doesn't seem to "run" nearly as much.

steyrman13
12-02-13, 11:36
Update on FL. On my friends NHC that was treated 100% by the book with Froglube, after firing only 50 rounds and then sitting in a safe/ CCW for around 6 months. It was so sticky that you could drop the slide on empty chamber and it would not even hurt your finger if you stuck it in the chamber while doing so. It was difficult to rack the slide period. The SS barrel on the outside looked IDENTICAL to the residue on my deep frier pot. Brown bubbly sticky residue. After a treatment of alcohol wipes removing all the frog line and using regular clp, back to the originally beauty of a NHC.
Has anyone else experienced that?

mtdawg169
12-02-13, 12:10
Update on FL. On my friends NHC that was treated 100% by the book with Froglube, after firing only 50 rounds and then sitting in a safe/ CCW for around 6 months. It was so sticky that you could drop the slide on empty chamber and it would not even hurt your finger if you stuck it in the chamber while doing so. It was difficult to rack the slide period. The SS barrel on the outside looked IDENTICAL to the residue on my deep frier pot. Brown bubbly sticky residue. After a treatment of alcohol wipes removing all the frog line and using regular clp, back to the originally beauty of a NHC.
Has anyone else experienced that?

Yes. I ran into that issue on three different AR's. Fired them on multiple occasions and was left with a very sticky residue after a few weeks. I had a spare bolt that I treated and stuck in a small zip lock baggie. I pulled it out last night and it was the same thing. Very sticky, no longer slick at all. I tried to wipe the unfired bolt down with a paper towel and it would not wipe off. Actually tore the paper towel it was so sticky. All parts were stripped with brake cleaner and FL applied with a heat gun. One of my guns was short stroking because of the sticky residue. It may have slicked up after getting the gun warm, but after 60 rounds, it was still not as viscous as it should have been and would not lock back on an empty mag. It ran fine after stripping with MPro7 and applying weaponshield. I can only imagine how bad it would be in cold weather.

Detmongo
12-02-13, 17:57
I had treated the bore of my hunting rifle with FL last year took it out this year and found the bore had a pretty good bit of rust in it. scrubbed the bore with clp and got most it it out.

hatidua
12-02-13, 18:04
When motor oil quits working, I'll have to give one of these new flavor of the week gun lubes a try. However, after decades in various climates, the motor oil seems to be doing just fine other than lacking celebrity firearms instructor endorsement.

Psalms144.1
12-02-13, 18:15
I had treated the bore of my hunting rifle with FL last year took it out this year and found the bore had a pretty good bit of rust in it. scrubbed the bore with clp and got most it it out.I too have been completely underwhelmed with the rust prevention of FL, and, have pretty much stopped using it. I'm now using Fireclean to clean and lube, and Corrosion-X for external rust protection.

Dakota Glock Guy
12-02-13, 19:03
I too have been completely underwhelmed with the rust prevention of FL, and, have pretty much stopped using it. I'm now using Fireclean to clean and lube, and Corrosion-X for external rust protection.


I have been completely underwhelmed with Frog Lube period...

DBR
12-02-13, 22:31
What would you expect to happen to a "biodegradable" material as it sits and oxidizes?

ruchik
12-03-13, 01:16
Update on FL. On my friends NHC that was treated 100% by the book with Froglube, after firing only 50 rounds and then sitting in a safe/ CCW for around 6 months. It was so sticky that you could drop the slide on empty chamber and it would not even hurt your finger if you stuck it in the chamber while doing so. It was difficult to rack the slide period. The SS barrel on the outside looked IDENTICAL to the residue on my deep frier pot. Brown bubbly sticky residue. After a treatment of alcohol wipes removing all the frog line and using regular clp, back to the originally beauty of a NHC.
Has anyone else experienced that?

I've experienced the same thing. Gave up and now only use it to coat blades and tools. Works fantastic for those applications.

ruchik
12-03-13, 01:16
Update on FL. On my friends NHC that was treated 100% by the book with Froglube, after firing only 50 rounds and then sitting in a safe/ CCW for around 6 months. It was so sticky that you could drop the slide on empty chamber and it would not even hurt your finger if you stuck it in the chamber while doing so. It was difficult to rack the slide period. The SS barrel on the outside looked IDENTICAL to the residue on my deep frier pot. Brown bubbly sticky residue. After a treatment of alcohol wipes removing all the frog line and using regular clp, back to the originally beauty of a NHC.
Has anyone else experienced that?

I've experienced the same thing. Gave up and now only use it to coat blades and tools. Works fantastic for those applications.

WS6
12-03-13, 01:23
Yes. I ran into that issue on three different AR's. Fired them on multiple occasions and was left with a very sticky residue after a few weeks. I had a spare bolt that I treated and stuck in a small zip lock baggie. I pulled it out last night and it was the same thing. Very sticky, no longer slick at all. I tried to wipe the unfired bolt down with a paper towel and it would not wipe off. Actually tore the paper towel it was so sticky. All parts were stripped with brake cleaner and FL applied with a heat gun. One of my guns was short stroking because of the sticky residue. It may have slicked up after getting the gun warm, but after 60 rounds, it was still not as viscous as it should have been and would not lock back on an empty mag. It ran fine after stripping with MPro7 and applying weaponshield. I can only imagine how bad it would be in cold weather.
I have not experienced this to this degree. I had a BCG that I put in a bag for about a year, and it came out looking the same as it went in. However, I had a rifle I shot and left for a few weeks, and it had began to get a bit sticky. I think air is the factor, here.

WS6
12-03-13, 01:29
This whole thread makes me LOL so damn hard after I ragged on Froglube about 1-2 years ago and everyone told me I was wrong to ask questions and to just use it because it was amazing.

T2C
12-03-13, 09:45
When motor oil quits working, I'll have to give one of these new flavor of the week gun lubes a try. However, after decades in various climates, the motor oil seems to be doing just fine other than lacking celebrity firearms instructor endorsement.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

G woody
12-03-13, 17:35
That (FL) remind me of WD-40. Many years ago hell I'm old) all of my shooting group used & swore by the stuff. Well it probably did retard rust but it turned so gummy after setting for months on a firearm the gun would get so gummy, THEN hard, that, for example you could not rotate the cylinder on a revolver.

09fatbob
12-04-13, 19:44
Have used Mobil 1 syn for years rifles handguns shotguns and per volume ....cheaper

jonconsiglio
12-04-13, 20:16
On Glocks, it doesn't matter much to me. I use FireClean because it's my preferred lube, but is use anything on a Glock.

Frog Lube slowed the action on my 1911 in 48 degree weather to the point that it barely chambered a round. I'll try to link the video.

PalmettoPrecision
12-04-13, 21:28
On Glocks, it doesn't matter much to me. I use FireClean because it's my preferred lube, but is use anything on a Glock.

Frog Lube slowed the action on my 1911 in 48 degree weather to the point that it barely chambered a round. I'll try to link the video.

I would like to see this... I have heard of similar issues.

jonconsiglio
12-04-13, 21:48
I would like to see this... I have heard of similar issues.

I uploaded the video to my flickr but can't link it from my phone. I'll try in a few from the computer or iPad.

To be clear, this is the liquid Frog Lube. Maybe a drop or two on the rails, a drop on the locking lugs and one down into the hammer and sear.

I guess I can just direct link it - http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/24925870@N00/11214693923/

Here's a Glock 19 for an apples to oranges comparison. I'm just linking it to show what a slide should look like on video. I'll eventually take another of the 1911 with FireClean for a fair comparison.

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/24925870@N00/11215176815/

kevN
12-04-13, 22:12
I uploaded the video to my flickr but can't link it from my phone. I'll try in a few from the computer or iPad.

To be clear, this is the liquid Frog Lube. Maybe a drop or two on the rails, a drop on the locking lugs and one down into the hammer and sear.

I guess I can just direct link it - http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/24925870@N00/11214693923/

Here's a Glock 19 for an apples to oranges comparison. I'm just linking it to show what a slide should look like on video. I'll eventually take another of the 1911 with FireClean for a fair comparison.

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/24925870@N00/11215176815/

And the G19 was no lubricated with Froglub but something else?

jonconsiglio
12-04-13, 22:18
And the G19 was no lubricated with Froglub but something else?

My fault, I thought I posted that. It was with FireClean.

Please note, I DID NOT add the Glock video to compare it to the 1911. I only posted it so there was some idea of how general slide velocity should look on video.

I'm also not saying this is definitive proof that all firearms with frog lube will now be sluggish. It was just to show what a little frog lube liquid applied earlier that day did to my Garthwaite Colt in 48 degree weather. So far, it's the only lube that's slowed down the slide or BCG of any of my guns.

I've used a few different kinds of grease and have not had these results.

NoveskeFan
12-04-13, 22:22
And the G19 was no lubricated with Froglub but something else?

I believe he used Fireclean on the Glock. Using Frog Lube, I have had two BCG's get "sticky" or "tacky" after a few months storage in my safe (which is inside my climate controlled house)...one inside a ziploc bag and the other installed in an upper. I've got some Fireclean heading my way to see how it does.

Pat.c
12-04-13, 23:47
Jon I have had the same problem with frog lube on my Sig P220. Usually heating it up helps the gun loosen back up, but even when shooting it tacky the weapon cycles like crap.

PalmettoPrecision
12-04-13, 23:58
I uploaded the video to my flickr but can't link it from my phone. I'll try in a few from the computer or iPad.

To be clear, this is the liquid Frog Lube. Maybe a drop or two on the rails, a drop on the locking lugs and one down into the hammer and sear.

I guess I can just direct link it - http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/24925870@N00/11214693923/

Here's a Glock 19 for an apples to oranges comparison. I'm just linking it to show what a slide should look like on video. I'll eventually take another of the 1911 with FireClean for a fair comparison.

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/24925870@N00/11215176815/

Wow. I had no idea it was going to be that bad. It's like watching it off a high speed camera...:p

Nice 1911, btw.

Clay
12-05-13, 15:48
I have to say that I'm surprised by this. I thought Froglube was tested in cold weather and approved by all sorts of HSLD folks.

I try all the latest and greatest, but I keep coming back to Weaponshield CLP and a few other synthetic and conventional petroleum products.

I will say that using a biodegradable product to protect metal is probably a bad idea, IMHO. I mean, it's made to break down. What's the shelf life of these products? Just a few years I would guess, maybe a bit longer if sealed in an airtight container.

mtdawg169
12-05-13, 17:40
I have to say that I'm surprised by this. I thought Froglube was tested in cold weather and approved by all sorts of HSLD folks.

I try all the latest and greatest, but I keep coming back to Weaponshield CLP and a few other synthetic and conventional petroleum products.

I will say that using a biodegradable product to protect metal is probably a bad idea, IMHO. I mean, it's made to break down. What's the shelf life of these products? Just a few years I would guess, maybe a bit longer if sealed in an airtight container.

Not as surprised as I was when I discovered it had turned into an almost glue like substance on the BCG and spare bolt. Before stripping mine, I had noticed that it was somewhat tacky about a month ago. I sprayed some the liquid into the action and went shooting. A couple of weeks later, tacky again.

samuse
12-06-13, 10:49
This whole thread makes me LOL so damn hard after I ragged on Froglube about 1-2 years ago and everyone told me I was wrong to ask questions and to just use it because it was amazing.

Yup. I called it too.

The stupid claims of the stuff soaking into metal and only coming out when the gun gets hot and the bs involved in application was all I needed to hear to know it was some retarded shit. Still have never seen the stuff and will continue to bash...

Dragun
12-06-13, 11:21
Another wonder lube designed to make a quick buck. I wasted my money.

gman556
12-06-13, 12:02
Even if froglube work outstandingly awesome, I still wouldn't use the shit because who the frig wants to heat all the friggen parts every time they clean their dam weapon:mad:

Wake27
12-06-13, 12:46
Even if froglube work outstandingly awesome, I still wouldn't use the shit because who the frig wants to heat all the friggen parts every time they clean their dam weapon:mad:

I was very curious initially, but the application process kept me from wanting to give it a shot. Glad I didn't.

jonconsiglio
12-06-13, 13:35
I have to say that I've always been skeptical of new lubes at first and the only thing I ever really used after clp and mobile 1 was Slip EWL, which was very good. I've talked to IG a few times about it and he's a big fan of Frog Lube, and I believe it's working well for him. To be honest, it worked ok for me on my ARs and Glock, but I only used light amounts of the liquid. 1911's on the cold, it doesn't work well. For me at least.

The frog lube I finally tried was a free kit given to me, and at first it seemed fine. Otherwise, I wouldn't have tried it as slip had been working.

Now, I got some free FireClean and after reading Kevin's reviews on Lightfighter, I figured I'd give that a try. It has worked really well for me. My Colt 6921 with vltor A5 (one of the first batches of A5's so it feels rougher than the new ones) also felt a little rougher than the carbine RE, but it's been 100% reliable, so I don't care one bit. I noticed after the second or third application of FireClean, it's now slicker than it's ever been even when I was using the carbine RE and Slip. I can't even imagine how many rounds are through that a5 extension.

So, of course I applied it to the same 1911. It's as slick as Slip. BUT, I noticed something different. Normally, the Slip would see about stuff around the trigger, but it would just be the clean lube, or a little dirty once it got going. I had detail stripped the gun, and lubed it with Slip as usual. When I got the FireClean, I decided to use that as they instructed on the 1911. So, I detail stripped it again, and removed all the slip. Lubed it with FireClean. The only reason I detail stripped it was to get the frog lube out, then get the slip out so I could lube it with FireClean. Otherwise, it would have just gotten wiped down. I dry fired as I do every single day for about 20 to 30 minutes.

I noticed instead of lube seeping out around the trigger, this time it was carbon, even though it had been detail stripped twice since last firing. It seemed that the FireClean was pulling carbon out that wasn't showing when using Slip.

I'm very impressed with FireClean and will continue to use it on my guns. I really don't care what I use on my Glocks, but I can say that a very light coat over the internals makes it a good bit easier to clean. My cleaning consists of a towel wiping down what I can reach.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7297/9593808293_f44cfa3c51_c.jpg

steyrman13
12-06-13, 13:43
What if Fireclean actually had a chemical that when exposed to the atmosphere or other materials over time turns black and what actually only a die instead of carbon like seen in the post above?? That would be wild huh! I don't think it is. However, FC claims to be odorless, but it definitely produces a smell similar to older FL (Like Used/heated vegetable oil) after time. I have not seen it produce the sticky substance I mentioned above from FL yet. It seems to keep my parts cleaner/easier to clean so far. We shall see over time.

jonconsiglio
12-06-13, 14:11
Frog Lube would smell up the whole room. For me, I can't even notice FireClean. I never liked the FL mint.

I think there was some carbon I just didn't see or clean inside the frame around the trigger and the FireClean just broke it loose.

For me, FireClean works as well as Slip with the added benefit of making it easier to clean. I never really do more than wipe it down with a towel, and now that method seems to get my rifles cleaner than before.

mtdawg169
12-06-13, 14:13
What if Fireclean actually had a chemical that when exposed to the atmosphere or other materials over time turns black and what actually only a die instead of carbon like seen in the post above?? That would be wild huh!

I seriously doubt that is the case.

I was digging through a spare parts box this morning and found a spare complete BCG that I had previously treated with FL. It was recently replaced by an LMT enhanced BCG and I pulled the BCG out of an upper and dropped it into a sealed zip lock bag. It was cleaned and coated with the liquid FL before storage. Like the spare bolt I referred to earlier, the FL had become very tacky. It did not slick up at all when rubbed vigorously with my thumb. It's just tacky, like used, dried up cooking oil in a frying pan.

steyrman13
12-06-13, 14:20
Frog Lube would smell up the whole room. For me, I can't even notice FireClean. I never liked the FL mint.
I was referring to the oily stinch not the mint part.


I seriously doubt that is the case.

I was digging through a spare parts box this morning and found a spare complete BCG that I had previously treated with FL. It was recently replaced by an LMT enhanced BCG and I pulled the BCG out of an upper and dropped it into a sealed zip lock bag. It was cleaned and coated with the liquid FL before storage. Like the spare bolt I referred to earlier, the FL had become very tacky. It did not slick up at all when rubbed vigorously with my thumb. It's just tacky, like used, dried up cooking oil in a frying pan.

Haha I don't really believe it is. I was just playing into the snake oil posts about FC.

Yep that used cooking oil is exactly how the NHC I just cleaned look and felt.

jonconsiglio
12-06-13, 15:08
Gotcha.

Wake27
12-06-13, 15:40
I started with Militec-1 on all of my guns and was pleased with it. When I started running low, I switched some of them over to Slip since I had two bottles from BCM uppers. Has not seen nearly the extensive testing from me that Militec did, but I have had good results with it, also. I couldn't help but buy a bottle of Fireclean after seeing so much good stuff about it though. I haven't really had a difficult time removing any carbon from any of my weapons yet, probably because I get a little OCD and feel the need to do some type of cleaning and re-lubing after most firing sessions. I look forward to trying it out, but will wait until I'm out of both of my other lubes.

ruchik
12-06-13, 16:41
Fireclean definitely does give off a smell after a while. As others have said, it's like that stale cooking oil smell. I refer to it as the dining commons smell, or DC smell, because it smells exactly like the dining commons in my college days.

I've only ever noticed this type of smell on Fireclean and Froglube, not on any other lube. Could it maybe have something to do with the fact that both are biodegradable?

mtdawg169
12-06-13, 17:18
I've only ever noticed this type of smell on Fireclean and Froglube, not on any other lube. Could it maybe have something to do with the fact that both are biodegradable?
Maybe so. Being biodegradable, it certainly makes you wonder if they are some sort of vegetable oil derivatives or some other natural oil.

steyrman13
12-06-13, 17:30
Maybe so. Being biodegradable, it certainly makes you wonder if they are some sort of vegetable oil derivatives or some other natural oil.

Especially since FL states it is "Food Grade Biodegradable"

Clay
12-06-13, 18:13
Most of these bio-based products are soy or corn oil based I would imagine. They've been making them for years, but they have some pretty big drawbacks, including a very limited shelf life which results in rancidity. IIRC Froglube changed their formula to address this to some degree, because several people had mold issues. I'd hate to spend a bunch of money for a wonderlube only to have it go bad before I could use it all. Most petrol and synthetic products have a very long shelf life. Break-Free CLP, Ballistol, and TW-25B are good examples of this.

I'll stick with Weaponshield, Ballistol, TW-25B, MPRo7, Hoppes, and Slip 2000 products. They are safe and non-toxic, and very effective. If I get to where I can't or won't spend the money on gun-specific products, I would use products from the automotive and hardware section at Wally World and drive on.

misanthropist
12-06-13, 18:48
I'll say this...up here in Canada Froglube has a terrible reputation. I could not possibly count the number of people who've told me that their guns don't run in the cold when lubed with FL. The slowed down slide is probably the least surprising thing I've encountered today...and I was at a Starbucks this morning at which I encountered a snarky, self-involved middle-management type wearing moderately priced dress clothes, treating people as though he was Donald Trump. So that video has some stiff competition for unsurprising encounters.

Personally I mostly just use synthetic motor oil. It seems to work fine and definitely works better than FL in the cold.

mtdawg169
12-06-13, 18:58
This whole thread makes me LOL so damn hard after I ragged on Froglube about 1-2 years ago and everyone told me I was wrong to ask questions and to just use it because it was amazing.

It is pretty ironic. I avoided FL for a long time simply because the application process seemed too tedious. Earlier this year I was convinced to give it a shot by a friend. So, I set out to try it over the summer and applied it to 3 different guns. I gave it a fair shot, just didn't work out.

Then, just as I swore off these wonderlubes, a friend here sent me half a bottle of Fireclean. I applied it to my SBR, which sees more rounds than any of my other guns. The other two are back to weaponshield unless Fireclean convinces me otherwise. I'll run it for a few months and see how it goes.

mattexass
12-06-13, 20:19
After being away from my firearms for an extended amount of time I arrived home and fondled my PPS for the first time in a long time. It was lubed up with fresh FL when I left. Upon returning home it had turned into some sort of yellow/black gunk. A dehumidifier was used the entire time. All I know is that this happened and I am just here to share my experience. I have since stripped all my firearms of FL, which also had turned into the yellow/black gunk , reapplying some Mobile1 from my garage.