View Full Version : Lower Parts Kits - brand differences?
Looking at LPKs (the next piece of my own AR build I'm getting), I see a difference in price between kits from Colt, DPMS, CMT/Stag, LMT, Rock River Arms, etc., but I don't really see why. Would someone mind explaining the differences between the kits? Do some companies use better/stronger materials, or is this a paying-for-brand thing?
Thanks,
-B
Do some companies use better/stronger materials, or is this a paying-for-brand thing?
Thanks,
-B
A little of both. While many manufacturers get their parts from the same vendors the higher quality companies subject the parts to further testing to ensure reliability. Example: Colt and Bushmaster might get their bolts from the same vendor, but Colt subjects the part to shot peening, High Pressure test shot, and Magnetic Particle inspection before the rifle goes out the door. Bushmaster might only batch test it.
For what it's worth, I've had great luck with LMT or CMT parts kits.
Stephen
Razorhunter
04-21-08, 17:56
Who sells LMT LPK's? I know LMT will not sell them directly. Anyone know?
How about Colt LPK's? Other than SAW, who sells them? Does Brownells have the TRUE Milspec LPK's that would come in a 6920??
Failure2Stop
04-21-08, 19:15
Who sells LMT LPK's? I know LMT will not sell them directly. Anyone know?
How about Colt LPK's? Other than SAW, who sells them? Does Brownells have the TRUE Milspec LPK's that would come in a 6920??
LMT- G&R Tactical, see HERE (http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=852)
Only know about SAW for Colt LPK, see thread HERE (http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5316&highlight=lower+parts).
Thanks Stephen. I kinda had that in mind, but didn't know if the components in the parts kits were one of those three companies make them, twenty sell them sorta deals (ala lower receivers). That's good to know. CMT were cheaper than RRA LPKs, so if they're good to go then they're good to go.
Paul, Failure2Stop listed both of the ones I know, and they're the only ones I know. I like the LMT kits at G&R; they're pricey but you can swap out what you don't want for what you want. I think my first AR build is going to go budget and get the CMT/Stag kit, and save my pennies for the Noveske build later.
-B
ADCO has suggested WOA LPK ($40 w/o trigger) for use with the new Geissele SSA, so you don't have to modify the CMT LPK.
I don't think I'll be messing with anything else for this current build (a tinker gun to learn more about the AR, since I can't keep anything mechanical in front of me for long before taking it apart :rolleyes:), but when I finally have enough to start really turning my plans to projects I'll keep that in mind for my SPR. Thanks carbinero.
-B
losbronces
04-22-08, 00:11
LMT- G&R Tactical, see HERE (http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=852)
Only know about SAW for Colt LPK, see thread HERE (http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5316&highlight=lower+parts).
While Browells doesn't have the Colt LPK as such, I order the individual Colt lower components from them and then add the trigger I want.
i generally judge LPKs by the bolt catch. Some of the lesser brands (such as dpms) have a bolt catch with a casting seam right down the middle of the paddle....
others do not.
so in my mind, (whether true or not, i dont know) whenever i see a catch with a seam up the middle, i try to avoid that lpk.
like i said, i have no idea if my theory holds any water whatsoever:confused:
i generally try to stick with CMT/STAG lpks. their quality seems consistently good.
although, i could have sworn i saw recently a factory LMT with a seam on the catch......so really, i have no clue.
i bet grant can shed some light on this.....he has probably seen them all.
I rank LPK's in this order:
Colt
LMT
CMT
DPMS
LMT is starting to make a good many things in house and to prove it, they are marking them. I have yet to have any issues with Colt or LMT LPK's.
C4
Any idea how many outfits actually manufacture the components in the LPK?
I was wondering that myself.
-B
Grant, do you figure the LMT LPK would accomodate Geissele's SSA without modification?
Also, where would you place WOA on your list?
RRA isnt a decent quality kit?
Razorhunter
04-22-08, 19:32
Well Grant,
I would have figured that, and most people "in the know" would probably agree.
I do have one question however. HOW do you figure Colt is one step above LMT? Is there something that specifically deems it necessary, to put Colt above LMT? Just wondering the difference between the two LPK's? Thanks.
Grant, do you figure the LMT LPK would accomodate Geissele's SSA without modification?
Also, where would you place WOA on your list?
Yes.
C4
RRA isnt a decent quality kit?
Not my first choice. Most likely ranks with DPMS.
C4
Well Grant,
I would have figured that, and most people "in the know" would probably agree.
I do have one question however. HOW do you figure Colt is one step above LMT? Is there something that specifically deems it necessary, to put Colt above LMT? Just wondering the difference between the two LPK's? Thanks.
I always rank Colt above anyone as they has a TDP to follow. The other companies do not have this req to follow.
C4
Just to chime in I like my RRA LPK trigger a lot better than my Stag LPK trigger. :D
I always rank Colt above anyone as they has a TDP to follow. The other companies do not have this req to follow.
C4
What is the TDP on the LPK?
Razorhunter
04-23-08, 07:42
Someone refresh me on what TDP stands for.
Someone refresh me on what TDP stands for.
Technical data package.
Supplied by.gov to vendors as specs to follow when manufacturing items.
What is the TDP on the LPK?
It would give all dimensions on them and hold to a known standard.
C4
It would give all dimensions on them and hold to a know standard.
C4
Including - material specs, tolerances, surface finish requirements, surface treatments, hardness....
Including - material specs, tolerances, surface finish requirements, surface treatments, hardness....
Correct you are.
C4
Just to chime in I like my RRA LPK trigger a lot better than my Stag LPK trigger. :D
Please state why you like the RRA better than the Stag LPK your above statement does not refer to quality.
hillmillenia
04-23-08, 23:12
In my experience...I assembled a LPK using CMT and got continual grief in the form of FTF and trigger slap. I changed out the hammer,trigger,diconnector and the catch with RRA parts and the problems seemed to clear up. I'm not saying one manufacturer is neccessarily better than another but you get out of spec parts across the spectrum.
What is the TDP on the LPK?
It defines such things a dimensions, hardness, etc.
C4
lauwer custom weaponry makes a very nice lpk.:)
lauwer custom weaponry makes a very nice lpk.:)
I somehow doubt they "make" it. Sell it maybe?
At that price (http://www.lauerweaponry.com/index.cfm?Category=128&Subcat=Lower%20Parts%20Set) I'd be concerned that it was a DPMS kit.
I somehow doubt they "make" it. Sell it maybe?
At that price (http://www.lauerweaponry.com/index.cfm?Category=128&Subcat=Lower%20Parts%20Set) I'd be concerned that it was a DPMS kit.
Could be I don't know . Brother in law said it was better than his DPMS lpk.
I somehow doubt they "make" it. Sell it maybe?
At that price (http://www.lauerweaponry.com/index.cfm?Category=128&Subcat=Lower%20Parts%20Set) I'd be concerned that it was a DPMS kit.
Agree.
C4
Any opinions on the Armalite LPK?
spamsammich
07-18-08, 11:12
Not my first choice. Most likely ranks with DPMS.
C4
I've found RRA kits to have much less creep to the trigger and than DPMS. Also, roll pins in the RRA kits are parkerized, DPMS werent and deburr on parts like the disconnector, hammer, and bolt catch were notably better on the RRA.
AnimalMother556
07-19-08, 02:20
Any opinions on the Armalite LPK?
I use them exclusively, and they are top notch stuff. No problems here, and the bolt catch looks cool.
30 cal slut
05-08-09, 11:45
BUMP cuz this is such an awesome thread.
Anyone know what brand LPK is used for the bulk of this kit at Spikes Tactical?
http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=41_23&products_id=228
Of course a truly awesome thread needs pics, see here:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=10093
When I went to build a few lowers, I noted the discos from both MI LPKs had quite noticeable tooling marks along the edges. Not as bad as that CMT, but certainly not as clean as the Colt or the one I bought from G&R.
Then I compared it to my WOA, then to a friend's CMMG, then to a build from AZ Armory. The tooling marks on these disco's were identical.
Grant, any idea when the G&R part kits will be up again?
Grant, any idea when the G&R part kits will be up again?
I have taken Magpul's advice and no longer give dates.
We do have them in stock, but are using them on our custom lowers.
C4
I have taken Magpul's advice and no longer give dates.
We do have them in stock, but are using them on our custom lowers.
C4
Ahhh, probably a prudent course of action. I just get tired of all the leftover trigger guards and triggers after making substitutions for other, better parts.
I have taken Magpul's advice and no longer give dates.
We do have them in stock, but are using them on our custom lowers.
C4
Hey Grant, where are those custom lowers listed? Just checked the sight and wasn't sure where or which they would be.
Also, in the thread linked above, there is an old post where you confirmed at that time that CMT was making Noveske lowers. If that's still the case, why are they charging almost double for them? is it just for the name on the side, or is there really a difference in them over say the $150 CD lower on your sight? Just curious.
Hey Grant, where are those custom lowers listed? Just checked the sight and wasn't sure where or which they would be.
Check out the thread here (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=27834).
G34Shooter
05-08-09, 15:40
I have taken Magpul's advice and no longer give dates.
We do have them in stock, but are using them on our custom lowers.
C4
I have your LPK, is it compatible with a Geissele SSA? I assume it is :o
Check out the thread here (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=27834).
Cool, thanks. Didn't even think to check here on the forum as I was looking on the GandR sight for them.
Hey Grant - I think I seen a post once where you talked about getting the components for you LPK's from diff manuf that you felt had the best of that component. If that is true, where do you get your triggers? I see on your website that they have an "S" on them in 2 locations and I have a few LPK's that have the same trigger - just trying to piece together where the LPK's I have were actually produced.
Thanks.
...........
Cool, thanks. Didn't even think to check here on the forum as I was looking on the GandR sight for them.
We almost never put rare or hard to get items up on our website (FYI). So you always want to check out our dealer forum.
C4
Hey Grant - I think I seen a post once where you talked about getting the components for you LPK's from diff manuf that you felt had the best of that component. If that is true, where do you get your triggers? I see on your website that they have an "S" on them in 2 locations and I have a few LPK's that have the same trigger - just trying to piece together where the LPK's I have were actually produced.
Thanks.
...........
We do not share info as to where we get our parts (sorry).
C4
We do not share info as to where we get our parts (sorry).
C4
Ah, right, sorry for asking. I guess I didn't recall correctly. That's cool.
I've been searching on this "S" stamped trigger some more - actually my LPK's also have "S" stamps on the hammer too - and found a thread on TOS where guys were saying their RRA LPK's were like that and a guy chimed in and said.......
Just looked at my new 6940 (.154" pins) and my hammer has the two "S"s but not the circles. Whoever "S" "S" is, Colt is using their hammers in their .154" FCG lowers.
Larry
Seems like I remember a thread where someone linked to a machine shop website somewhere that were reported to make the "S" stamped hammers and triggers for various manuf's. I'll see if I can find that.
........
Ah, right, sorry for asking. I guess I didn't recall correctly. That's cool.
I've been searching on this "S" stamped trigger some more - actually my LPK's also have "S" stamps on the hammer too - and found a thread on TOS where guys were saying their RRA LPK's were like that and a guy chimed in and said.......
Seems like I remember a thread where someone linked to a machine shop website somewhere that were reported to make the "S" stamped hammers and triggers for various manuf's. I'll see if I can find that.
........
A lot of companies use the "S" marked hammers. The thing to remember is that a lot of companies buy semi-finished parts, finish them in house, re-badge them as theirs and mark them again.
C4
A lot of companies use the "S" marked hammers. The thing to remember is that a lot of companies buy semi-finished parts, finish them in house, re-badge them as theirs and mark them again.
C4
Riiight. Got it. Thanks again Grant.
.....
tweakmeister
05-08-09, 18:46
SS = www.lwschneider.com
How does LW Schneider stack up against other brands?
-B
urbankaos04
06-11-09, 02:44
ADCO has suggested WOA LPK ($40 w/o trigger) for use with the new Geissele SSA, so you don't have to modify the CMT LPK.
What modification to the CMT/Stag LPK needs to be made for the SSA trigger? My SSA trigger works fine with the CMT/Stag LPK I used for the lower that sports my GTS Operator upper build.
What modification to the CMT/Stag LPK needs to be made for the SSA trigger? My SSA trigger works fine with the CMT/Stag LPK I used for the lower that sports my GTS Operator upper build.
By modification, I think he meant deleting the FCG from the Stag/CMT kit.
Grant, which LPK would you think that is higher shelf than the other, J&T Dist/Double Star or CMT/STAG since you don't have any LMT LPK in stock for sell?
Grant, which LPK would you think that is higher shelf than the other, J&T Dist/Double Star or CMT/STAG since you don't have any LMT LPK in stock for sell?
We LMT LPK's for sale IF you buy a lower from us.
C4
Well Grant, I have a new stripped LAR made Noveske Lower in bad need of your LMT LPK. Can you help me out?
spamsammich
06-13-09, 03:17
Well Grant, I have a new stripped LAR made Noveske Lower in bad need of your LMT LPK. Can you help me out?
I built up one of those lowers with a G&R LPK last year and it is by far my favorite lower and lightest/cleanest trigger.
Well Grant, I have a new stripped LAR made Noveske Lower in bad need of your LMT LPK. Can you help me out?
Only if you bought the lower from us. ;)
C4
Bobert0989
11-18-09, 15:39
Just to chime in I like my RRA LPK trigger a lot better than my Stag LPK trigger. :D
Match 2-Stage? Lol... mine is. No problems from my RRA kit so far. But I don't put my life on my rifle everyday either...
GRANT~ Ever run into your groundhog's comrades?
BravoWhiskey
11-19-09, 00:02
When it comes to AR building I am the greenist cherry. I do like quaility and I like to understand why something is better then something else. I also install a lot of commercial door hardware for a living and, although I am not a millwright, I am more versed then your average carpenter/door hanger. I have picked up several different stripped lowers and I scrounged the matching LPK'S. RRA & STAG feel & look the same. The Stag/CMT kit weighs 148 grams the RRA comes in @ 136 grams. I have not compared pcs, just the whole kit. the pcs felt identical.
I borrowed a friends DPMS kit and (I did not record the grams) and I think it was
20 grams lighter +/_ then the RRA. The Dpms kit had that plastic feel and heft to some of the parts.
All that aside I use RRA parts in the RRA lowers & Stag/CMT parts in their Lowers.
Differences can be ease of installation, finish, durability, and how they feel when installed. I buy a pile of parts and mix and match until I find something I like.
There can be a wide difference in lower parts, and certain specific parts have wider ranges of quality. Most anything you'd be able to tell just by looking will be cosmetic differences, unless you get a really mangled part.
For what it's worth, some small parts from different manufacturers will (sometimes) be indistinguishable even with a magnifying glass. When I got some Colt small parts from SAW a few years back, the selectors were virtually identical (as in, made on the same tooling) to my Stag selectors. Other parts, though, like the roll pins, were obviously of higher quality on the Colt side and were easier to use.
I got a LPK from... I'm pretty sure it was Bravo Co. .... a couple of years ago around the same time... they told me over the phone that they assembled their own kits from various suppliers. Some of the nicest examples of specific parts I've found came from those kits.
eternal24k
11-19-09, 08:22
Where would you put Armalite in the mix Grant?
vBulletin® v3.7.2, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.