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Nick504
09-02-13, 17:03
Hello all,

As the title states, I'm debating between a Sig P229 or a Walther PPQ (both in 9mm) for my next handgun purchase. I just sold off my concealed carry piece, so I'm looking for something to replace it with. I already have a Sig P226 (in .40) and I love it, but it's a little big for comfortable concealed carry. I'm more of a fan of the DA/SA platform, but I've heard such great things about the PPQ trigger, I was thinking of giving it a shot.

It's obvious that the Sig will be more $, but if I upgrade the white dot sights and plastic guide rod of the PPQ, the cost disparity shrinks considerably. I have really been intrigued by the PPQ ever since they came out in 2011. And part of me thinks that since I already have a P226, I shouldn't go with the P229 because it's basically just a compact P226. After all, variety is the spice of life. :cool: Although, the Sig P229 will probably be a softer shooter, which is a big plus in my book. And I don't yet have a Sig in 9mm.

But, what do you guys think? Please, no other pistol recommendations. These are the only two pistols on my radar right now. I need some advice. Help!

Tzed250
09-02-13, 17:13
I really liked my 229 and there are days that I wish I hadn't let it go down the road. That being said, I am liking the striker fired platform of my PPS and Steyr M40-A1. I think in a self defense situation that the consistent trigger pull will help.

Don Robison
09-02-13, 17:24
I've had both, still have a PPQ. For me the PPQ conceals easier AIWB where I carry and it has the nicest stock trigger I've shot on a polymer gun.
I don't dislike the 229 and like yourself I still have a 226; I just prefer the PPQ over the 229.

DanjojoUSMC
09-02-13, 18:08
P99AS would be a little of both worlds if you can find one. Preference and roles it will play decide between the other two. Both really good - best triggers for their respective categories.

Depending on how/where you carry, the 226 can be about as easy as a 229 even with a flush-ish 18rd Mec-Gar.

Hmac
09-02-13, 20:47
I've had a P229 .40 since about 1997. Great gun but it's a beast. I have about 5000 rounds through my PPQ 9...I never shoot the P229 anymore. I'd go PPQ if I were in the midst of your dilemma.

Nick504
09-02-13, 21:09
Thanks you guys for the comments. Awesome info here.

.XL
09-02-13, 22:41
Win + Win situation, however, I like the Sig Sauer P229/Walther P99AS pair combination better.

Sensei
09-02-13, 23:01
First, why are you considering a P229 in 9mm? The P228 in both railed and non-railed varieties can be found online:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=363451969#PIC

Although they are dimensionally similar, the P229 is a bit more nose heavy due to its milled SS slide (a little more beef is needed for the 40/357). The P228 has a folded carbon steel slide that is lighter and more ergonomic in most people's hand.

NV Ranger
09-02-13, 23:46
Have you considered the P6/P225? You can pick them up for around $400. The P6 in an IWB holster disappears under a t-shirt during the summer.

My duty belt gun is a P226 in .40, my plain clothes gun is a P229 in .40, and off-duty concealed is the aforementioned P6 in 9mm loaded with Ranger 124gr +P. Have them all set up the same way so the trigger is just about 100% the same from gun to gun.

Don Robison
09-02-13, 23:54
Have you considered the P6/P225? You can pick them up for around $400. The P6 in an IWB holster disappears under a t-shirt during the summer.

My duty belt gun is a P226 in .40, my plain clothes gun is a P229 in .40, and off-duty concealed is the aforementioned P6 in 9mm loaded with Ranger 124gr +P. Have them all set up the same way so the trigger is just about 100% the same from gun to gun.


That's actually not a bad idea. If I want/need a slimmer 9mm but don't want pocket carry I too go for my P6, plus it fits all of my old 228 holsters.

Nick504
09-03-13, 00:32
Have you considered the P6/P225? You can pick them up for around $400. The P6 in an IWB holster disappears under a t-shirt during the summer.

My duty belt gun is a P226 in .40, my plain clothes gun is a P229 in .40, and off-duty concealed is the aforementioned P6 in 9mm loaded with Ranger 124gr +P. Have them all set up the same way so the trigger is just about 100% the same from gun to gun.

No, I haven't really considered it. It does seem like a good option though. But, I don't think I like the idea of a single stack 9mm.

Nick504
09-03-13, 00:41
First, why are you considering a P229 in 9mm? The P228 in both railed and non-railed varieties can be found online:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=363451969#PIC

Although they are dimensionally similar, the P229 is a bit more nose heavy due to its milled SS slide (a little more beef is needed for the 40/357). The P228 has a folded carbon steel slide that is lighter and more ergonomic in most people's hand.

I do like the idea of the P228R. But you can't really find any new. I would rather not buy a used gun if I can help it. I also like the increased mag capacity of the P229 (15 vs 13). They have a used P228R right now on gun broker that one could "buy now" for $800. I know they're great guns, but it's not for me.

Hmac
09-03-13, 02:13
The older German versions of the P229 (some questions apparently linger about current US versions) were truly excellent firearms, but owning and having carried both, the size, weight, grip, trigger, price, and lack of DA makes the PPQ a better choice for me.

Sensei
09-03-13, 06:42
I do like the idea of the P228R. But you can't really find any new. I would rather not buy a used gun if I can help it. I also like the increased mag capacity of the P229 (15 vs 13). They have a used P228R right now on gun broker that one could "buy now" for $800. I know they're great guns, but it's not for me.

Mec-Gar make 15-round mags for the 228. These are factory quality since Mec-Gar is the exclusive manufacturer of Sig's OEM mags. The P228 can also use P226 mags which increases capacity to 20 rounds when using Mec-Gar extended baseplate mags.

Of the guns we have discussed, I have a PPQ, P228R, M11-A1 (essentially a 229 in 9mm), and a circa 1997 P229 in 40SW. All have either the factory SRT enhancement or Bruce Gray's reduced reset package. The P228R is the most comfortable of the lot to carry and shoot. The PPQ is nice, but comparing alloy DA/SA and polymer striker guns is apples to oranges. Thus, you might want to go to a range and rent the PPQ and a P229 to see which best fulfills your expectations.

WillBrink
09-03-13, 09:08
Hello all,

As the title states, I'm debating between a Sig P229 or a Walther PPQ (both in 9mm) for my next handgun purchase. I just sold off my concealed carry piece, so I'm looking for something to replace it with. I already have a Sig P226 (in .40) and I love it, but it's a little big for comfortable concealed carry. I'm more of a fan of the DA/SA platform, but I've heard such great things about the PPQ trigger, I was thinking of giving it a shot.

It's obvious that the Sig will be more $, but if I upgrade the white dot sights and plastic guide rod of the PPQ, the cost disparity shrinks considerably. I have really been intrigued by the PPQ ever since they came out in 2011. And part of me thinks that since I already have a P226, I shouldn't go with the P229 because it's basically just a compact P226. After all, variety is the spice of life. :cool: Although, the Sig P229 will probably be a softer shooter, which is a big plus in my book. And I don't yet have a Sig in 9mm.

But, what do you guys think? Please, no other pistol recommendations. These are the only two pistols on my radar right now. I need some advice. Help!


Seems too apples/oranges to me to answer easily. Personally, I can shoot DA or SA, but I don't like it at all in one gun. That alone would put me with the PPQ, but add the better ergos of the PPQ and (subjectively) better balance, solid rep from shooters, etc, PPQ all day for me personally if those were my only two choices.

Nick504
09-03-13, 12:00
Just to add a little bit more background on why I'm considering the PPQ:

I'm not a big fan of typical striker fired guns like Glocks, M&Ps, Xdm and all of the others due to the double action nature of them. The PPQ, from what I understand, is a different animal altogether in that it is essentially a SAO striker design (fully pre-cocked mechanism). This definitely perks my interest. I'm all about good triggers. I have a SRT kit on my P226 and I love my 1911 trigger. I also find it interesting that a lot of 1911 guys own a PPQ. A lot of them say "the Walther PPQ is the only poly pistol I will ever own." It seems like there is a good reason for 1911 snobs to have a Walther PPQ posing next to their Les Baers and Wilson Combats in picture threads.

Nick504
09-03-13, 12:06
Mec-Gar make 15-round mags for the 228. These are factory quality since Mec-Gar is the exclusive manufacturer of Sig's OEM mags. The P228 can also use P226 mags which increases capacity to 20 rounds when using Mec-Gar extended baseplate mags.

Of the guns we have discussed, I have a PPQ, P228R, M11-A1 (essentially a 229 in 9mm), and a circa 1997 P229 in 40SW. All have either the factory SRT enhancement or Bruce Gray's reduced reset package. The P228R is the most comfortable of the lot to carry and shoot. The PPQ is nice, but comparing alloy DA/SA and polymer striker guns is apples to oranges. Thus, you might want to go to a range and rent the PPQ and a P229 to see which best fulfills your expectations.

I know that I would like the way a P229 in 9mm shoots. I've shot a newer P226 in 9mm and it felt really nice. I couldn't imagine it being much different shooting the P229. The PPQ is foreign to me though. About the closest thing I have to compare it with is an XDm 3.8 in 9mm, which shot great by the way. The spongy trigger turned me off of it though.

veteran-USMC
09-03-13, 12:18
I own & shoot a Sig 229 in 40 caliber and like everything about this finely machined handgun but the DA/SA trigger. A friend loaned me a Walther PPQ 9mm to shoot at the range and all I can say is this handgun is striker fired and what a sweet trigger this handgun is to shoot--it's trigger is light and has a short reset for your follow-up shot.
And I have noticed a slight ring around the fired ammo case which seems to indicate a tight barrel to ammo fitting allowing for a bit more
accuracy. Here's a few links to the Walther PPQ 9mm-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJaJmNPJpf8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzvALwhUbjQ&list=PL3E8B60DDAA0BA907

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzvALwhUbjQ&list=PL3E8B60DDAA0BA9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrILu-FdsUI&list=PL3E8B60DDAA0BA907

Noodles
09-03-13, 12:44
PPQ M2 no doubt. Walther really has something on their hands. I'm curious if they are going to handle it properly, but that's another matter.

Sig is nice gun, but it's time is pretty much over. The way I look at the SA/DA is you pretty much need to train twice as much on it. If you can swing that and don't mind the weight and ergonomics, cool, do it. But if you have your choice and can handle both, I'm not sure how anyone would chose the Sig except for familiarity. They have a lot of the same flaws, but the Walther makes up for them imo.

WillBrink
09-03-13, 12:45
Just to add a little bit more background on why I'm considering the PPQ:

I'm not a big fan of typical striker fired guns like Glocks, M&Ps, Xdm and all of the others due to the double action nature of them. The PPQ, from what I understand, is a different animal altogether in that it is essentially a SAO striker design (fully pre-cocked mechanism). This definitely perks my interest. I'm all about good triggers. I have a SRT kit on my P226 and I love my 1911 trigger. I also find it interesting that a lot of 1911 guys own a PPQ. A lot of them say "the Walther PPQ is the only poly pistol I will ever own." It seems like there is a good reason for 1911 snobs to have a Walther PPQ posing next to their Les Baers and Wilson Combats in picture threads.

I bet a lot more 1911 guys (including yours truly) own a M&P with Apex trigger set up. It's the only combo that took me away from my beloved 1911s and that's what I have seen/heard from many others. You get very 1911-like ergo, high capacity, and excellent trigger.

But, if one loves the 1911 trigger and that's a deal breaker, then one needs a 1911 in my view.

B Cart
09-03-13, 12:51
I carried a Sig P229 for almost 6 years before I switched to the Walther PPQ, and I have never looked back.

I wanted a lighter gun with a non DA/SA trigger, and I looked really hard at the Glock 19 and M&P 9. I didn't love the Glock, even though I really wanted to, and the M&P seemed really nice, but the stock trigger wasn't the best. Then I got my hands on a PPQ and it seemed the perfect combination of ergonomics, accuracy, and amazing out-of-the-box trigger. I have carried one now for the last year or so, and I love it.

I really like the Sig, and it has been perfectly reliable for me over the years, but if you are choosing between the two for a carry gun, get the PPQ. ;)

Sensei
09-03-13, 13:30
I bet a lot more 1911 guys (including yours truly) own a M&P with Apex trigger set up. It's the only combo that took me away from my beloved 1911s and that's what I have seen/heard from many others. You get very 1911-like ergo, high capacity, and excellent trigger.

But, if one loves the 1911 trigger and that's a deal breaker, then one needs a 1911 in my view.

Agreed. If you want a polymer / striker fired pistol that shoots like a 1911, then an M&P45 with an APEX Forward Set Sear and Trigger Kit is as close as you can get without going over $1K. The next closest polymer pistol would be an HK45 Varient 9 that has Bruce Gray's Reduced Reset Carry Package, but now you're talking about investing $1500 in a polymer pistol when you include shipping.

I'm not seeing how the PPQ's trigger is anything like a 1911's. I say this owning a PPQ, M&P45 Apex FSST, HK45, and a couple of Ed Browns / Springfield PRO's.

Nick504
09-03-13, 13:42
I bet a lot more 1911 guys (including yours truly) own a M&P with Apex trigger set up. It's the only combo that took me away from my beloved 1911s and that's what I have seen/heard from many others. You get very 1911-like ergo, high capacity, and excellent trigger.

But, if one loves the 1911 trigger and that's a deal breaker, then one needs a 1911 in my view.

Let me clarify. I don't need a trigger as good as a 1911 for my carry gun. I have a 1911 already, but I only use it for the range/home defense. But, a good trigger with a short reset is important to me in a carry gun. I think it's hard to say which poly gun more 1911 enthusiasts own, it was simply my experience that a lot of them do own and really enjoy the PPQ. Stock for stock though, minus any aftermarket parts, it seems as though it is hard to beat the PPQ's trigger in the category of non 1911 pistols.

McNulty
09-03-13, 14:24
I carry the P229 for duty and the PPQ as my off duty. The PPQ is easier for me to carry concealed and I prefer the PPQ trigger. My P229 has the DAK and pre travel is very long. Both are very accurate and I have not had a malfunction with either that wasn't operator induced. With that in mind, if I could have only one, it would be the PPQ.

Aries144
09-03-13, 14:46
The only real question is: Do you want the original PPQ with lever mag release or the new PPQ M2 with button release?

My vote is for the lever release.

;)

B Cart
09-03-13, 14:58
The only real question is: Do you want the original PPQ with lever mag release or the new PPQ M2 with button release?

My vote is for the lever release.

;)

I second this ^^.

From the first time I shot and bought a PPQ, I fell in love with the lever mag release on the trigger guard. My mag changes are faster, and I don't have to roll the gun to hit the mag release with my thumb, so getting back on target is quicker. It took a slight training change to mentally switch styles, but now I much prefer the lever release over a button release. YMMV

Noodles
09-03-13, 15:06
I second this ^^.

From the first time I shot and bought a PPQ, I fell in love with the lever mag release on the trigger guard. My mag changes are faster, and I don't have to roll the gun to hit the mag release with my thumb, so getting back on target is quicker. It took a slight training change to mentally switch styles, but now I much prefer the lever release over a button release. YMMV

100% complete opposite. I'm faster with the M2, less grip shifting, better control of the gun during mag changes - BUT - I was using middle finger and not trigger finger, things would be different if I could use trigger finger.

I have a PPQ FE/Threaded for sale if you're looking for another M1 ;)

Alaskapopo
09-03-13, 15:08
Hello all,

As the title states, I'm debating between a Sig P229 or a Walther PPQ (both in 9mm) for my next handgun purchase. I just sold off my concealed carry piece, so I'm looking for something to replace it with. I already have a Sig P226 (in .40) and I love it, but it's a little big for comfortable concealed carry. I'm more of a fan of the DA/SA platform, but I've heard such great things about the PPQ trigger, I was thinking of giving it a shot.

It's obvious that the Sig will be more $, but if I upgrade the white dot sights and plastic guide rod of the PPQ, the cost disparity shrinks considerably. I have really been intrigued by the PPQ ever since they came out in 2011. And part of me thinks that since I already have a P226, I shouldn't go with the P229 because it's basically just a compact P226. After all, variety is the spice of life. :cool: Although, the Sig P229 will probably be a softer shooter, which is a big plus in my book. And I don't yet have a Sig in 9mm.

But, what do you guys think? Please, no other pistol recommendations. These are the only two pistols on my radar right now. I need some advice. Help!
The PPQ has a better trigger and is more ergonomic. The P229 was my favorate Sig before their quality went to crap. I bought a PPQ for a friend of mine and I had a chance to shoot it with him and its an nice pistol with excellent ergonomics and a great trigger pull.
Pat

WillBrink
09-03-13, 15:13
Let me clarify. I don't need a trigger as good as a 1911 for my carry gun. I have a 1911 already, but I only use it for the range/home defense. But, a good trigger with a short reset is important to me in a carry gun. I think it's hard to say which poly gun more 1911 enthusiasts own, it was simply my experience that a lot of them do own and really enjoy the PPQ. Stock for stock though, minus any aftermarket parts, it seems as though it is hard to beat the PPQ's trigger in the category of non 1911 pistols.

Well, you only allowed two choices, choices that were very apples/oranges. Of the two, the PPQ seems easily the way to go from what I know and the PPQ would be on the short list if I were looking for a new polymer high cap CCW.

I think that will be the majority opinion here if I had to guess.

B Cart
09-03-13, 15:42
100% complete opposite. I'm faster with the M2, less grip shifting, better control of the gun during mag changes - BUT - I was using middle finger and not trigger finger, things would be different if I could use trigger finger.

I have a PPQ FE/Threaded for sale if you're looking for another M1 ;)

I have a couple PPQs already (including a First Gen threaded) or I might take you up on that;)

As for the mag release, I have never used the middle finger, but it seems like that would be awkward. I use the trigger finger, and that is why I like the paddle because there is no grip shifting at all, and full control of the gun during mag changes. It's just a quick movement of the trigger finger only, and doesn't disrupt the grip at all.

But obviously a lot of people like the side button release since Walther switched their PPQ production to those on the M2. Either way, it's a nice gun. And I just stippled my grip, and like it even more :)

BBS
09-03-13, 16:41
The PPQ has to be the worlds most underrated handgun.

Hmac
09-03-13, 18:19
I have a couple PPQs already (including a First Gen threaded) or I might take you up on that;)

As for the mag release, I have never used the middle finger, but it seems like that would be awkward. I use the trigger finger, and that is why I like the paddle because there is no grip shifting at all, and full control of the gun during mag changes. It's just a quick movement of the trigger finger only, and doesn't disrupt the grip at all.

But obviously a lot of people like the side button release since Walther switched their PPQ production to those on the M2. Either way, it's a nice gun. And I just stippled my grip, and like it even more :)

I'm completely ambivalent on the mag release. I like the lever release on my PPQ...I prefer middle finger to work it because I don't have to shift my grip at all but I'd have been ok with the button release.

Nick504
09-03-13, 20:17
Agreed. If you want a polymer / striker fired pistol that shoots like a 1911, then an M&P45 with an APEX Forward Set Sear and Trigger Kit is as close as you can get without going over $1K. The next closest polymer pistol would be an HK45 Varient 9 that has Bruce Gray's Reduced Reset Carry Package, but now you're talking about investing $1500 in a polymer pistol when you include shipping.

I'm not seeing how the PPQ's trigger is anything like a 1911's. I say this owning a PPQ, M&P45 Apex FSST, HK45, and a couple of Ed Browns / Springfield PRO's.
I never said the PPQ trigger was anything like a 1911 trigger. My point was that 1911 enthusiasts appreciate good triggers and it appears that a lot of them own a PPQ because of the nice trigger on it. (Nice for a striker fired pistol of course)

Nick504
09-03-13, 23:18
I carried a Sig P229 for almost 6 years before I switched to the Walther PPQ, and I have never looked back.

I wanted a lighter gun with a non DA/SA trigger, and I looked really hard at the Glock 19 and M&P 9. I didn't love the Glock, even though I really wanted to, and the M&P seemed really nice, but the stock trigger wasn't the best. Then I got my hands on a PPQ and it seemed the perfect combination of ergonomics, accuracy, and amazing out-of-the-box trigger. I have carried one now for the last year or so, and I love it.

I really like the Sig, and it has been perfectly reliable for me over the years, but if you are choosing between the two for a carry gun, get the PPQ. ;)

Thanks for sharing. How do you like the PPQ in terms of shootability?

Captain D
09-03-13, 23:46
A friend of mine just bought a Sig 229....very nice gun, handles and shoots very accurate....

FAB45
09-04-13, 04:08
I would go with a striker fired firearm. The PPQ has an excellent track record, see if you can shoot both. Weigh out your pros and cons like, ammo capacity, price, availability of after market parts, etc. Do your research, write it all down and the right choice for you will pop out clearly. When I doubt....buy both!

FAB45
09-04-13, 04:10
The PPQ has to be the worlds most underrated handgun.

This is true! I wonder why they have marketed it so lightly, my guess is that because S&W owns Walther now and they are focusing on the M&P line...just my guess.

Hmac
09-04-13, 06:49
This is true! I wonder why they have marketed it so lightly, my guess is that because S&W owns Walther now and they are focusing on the M&P line...just my guess.

Huh? Smith & Wesson has nothing to do with Walther. They used to be Walther's importer but that relationship has been done since January.

walker2713
09-04-13, 07:49
Based on weight and trigger, I'd go PPQ....which is what I have....

MistWolf
09-04-13, 08:00
PPQ all the way. I did consider the Sig 229 when the 40 S&W first came out but I don't really like the DA/SA trigger in any pistol.

The PPQ is very natural shooter. I shoot it better than any other pistol and almost have to work to make it miss. Everyone I've let shoot it has liked it. I've been carrying and shooting the PPQ for over a year and it's still one of my very favorite handguns.

The thread I started when I first got it, warts and all-
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=105812

MistWolf
09-04-13, 08:14
...I'm not seeing how the PPQ's trigger is anything like a 1911's. I say this owning a PPQ, M&P45 Apex FSST, HK45, and a couple of Ed Browns / Springfield PRO's.

The PPQ and 1911 are similar in that both have a fairly crisp single action break and short reset. The difference is that the PPQ is a two stage and uses a hinged trigger. As a 1911 user, the PPQ is the only other centerfire pistol that I really like. Glocks are too clunky, grip is at the wrong angle and I don't like the feel of the trigger. Never cared for DA/SA self loaders and don't like upside down safeties.

The three improvements the PPQ has over the 1911 is the lack of the manual thumb safety, relocating the grip safety to the trigger and striker fired. I think the PPQ is what the self loading handgun would have evolved into without interference from the bureaucrats

Trivia- John Browning originally designed the Hi-Power to be striker fired

Sensei
09-04-13, 10:00
The PPQ and 1911 are similar in that both have a fairly crisp single action break and short reset. The difference is that the PPQ is a two stage and uses a hinged trigger. As a 1911 user, the PPQ is the only other centerfire pistol that I really like. Glocks are too clunky, grip is at the wrong angle and I don't like the feel of the trigger. Never cared for DA/SA self loaders and don't like upside down safeties.

The three improvements the PPQ has over the 1911 is the lack of the manual thumb safety, relocating the grip safety to the trigger and striker fired. I think the PPQ is what the self loading handgun would have evolved into without interference from the bureaucrats

Trivia- John Browning originally designed the Hi-Power to be striker fired

Again, I own a PPQ and multiple 1911s and I'm not seeing the comparison. The PPQ's high bore axis and low grip (hence the muzzle flip that many notice) is nothing like a 1911. Yes, the PPQ trigger has a crisp break and positive reset, but that is where the similarity ends given the pre-travel and hinge. It should be known that an M&P trigger has a similar weight and reset to a PPQ with an APEX DCAEK and RAM installed ($100 upgrade). If he wants a similarly priced polymer pistol that feels like a 1911, then the OP should buy a M&P and upgrade it with an APEX FSST. The FSST has almost no pretravel, less reset than a PPQ, and a weight of about 4-5 lbs - almost identical to a 1911. The M&P also has ergonomics and a bore axis that is more like a 1911. If he wants a traditional striker fired pistol that needs no tweaks, the PPQ is an excellent out of the box choice now that mags and reasonable sights are becoming readily available.

Having said that, the original question was PPQ vs P229 and we had no criteria going into the discussion for our advice. Now, it seems he favors the PPQ mainly because of its trigger which is lighter than the Sig's 12 lb double action pull (a Sig with a factory SRT has a shorter reset than a PPQ). This is a perfectly reasonable position, but we could have come to it much faster had we known that he did not want a trigger heavier than 5-7 lbs.

FWIW, I am a noticeably faster on my first shots with my PPQ (and Glock, and M&P, and 1911, etc.) than with my P228 or M11-A1. However, my follow-up shots with the Sigs are a hair faster. This is attributed to a little less muzzle flip with the Sig, its lighter SA trigger, and my overall familiarity with the platform.

MistWolf
09-04-13, 11:09
I don't know how to explain it any better, Sensei. To me, the PPQ feels like a natural progression from a 1911. I don't think muzzle rise of the PPQ is any more than other pistols but it's recoil is quick by comparison. After taking up the first stage, the PPQ trigger feels much like a 1911 trigger to me. The two stage feels normal to me after years of shooting Garands and M14s.

Strangely, many experienced gunfighters in the early 1900s made the transition from the Colt SAA to the 1911 because, despite their differences, the 1911 felt familiar. After shooting the two weapons, I can see why.

I've not fired the M&P yet. But when I went looking for a 9mm, I started by looking for a BHP. I started hearing good things about the M&P so I went and checked them out as well. It felt better in the hand than the BHP. I had no interest at all in the Walther because the trigger had too many modes and I wanted to keep it simple. When a local gunshop talked me into looking at the PPQ, it felt better in my hand than the M&P, the trigger was almost perfect, the reset was short and the pistol was bone simple with no mag disconnects, decockers or manual safeties.

After shooting Glocks and dry firing the M&P, it's not that I find the triggers unacceptable, just that I like the PPQ trigger much better. At first, I didn't like the lack of feel of reset with the M&P but I've found with fast shooting the PPQ (and the AR), I'm releasing the trigger before the reset can be felt

B Cart
09-04-13, 11:48
Thanks for sharing. How do you like the PPQ in terms of shootability?

It has been very accurate and shoots very well. The ergonomics are awesome (similar to the H&K P30), and the recoil is very manageable. I ended up stippling the grip on mine to give a little better grip when shooting in wet weather or with sweaty hands, but the stock grip does a great job on its own.

All in all, the PPQ is a very well thought out pistol, and the perfect combination of features, accuracy, and price, making it a stellar out of the box choice for a carry gun.

Here is mine stippled. I carry it with a TLR-1s.18044

Nick504
09-04-13, 12:11
Again, I own a PPQ and multiple 1911s and I'm not seeing the comparison. The PPQ's high bore axis and low grip (hence the muzzle flip that many notice) is nothing like a 1911. Yes, the PPQ trigger has a crisp break and positive reset, but that is where the similarity ends given the pre-travel and hinge. It should be known that an M&P trigger has a similar weight and reset to a PPQ with an APEX DCAEK and RAM installed ($100 upgrade). If he wants a similarly priced polymer pistol that feels like a 1911, then the OP should buy a M&P and upgrade it with an APEX FSST. The FSST has almost no pretravel, less reset than a PPQ, and a weight of about 4-5 lbs - almost identical to a 1911. The M&P also has ergonomics and a bore axis that is more like a 1911. If he wants a traditional striker fired pistol that needs no tweaks, the PPQ is an excellent out of the box choice now that mags and reasonable sights are becoming readily available.

Having said that, the original question was PPQ vs P229 and we had no criteria going into the discussion for our advice. Now, it seems he favors the PPQ mainly because of its trigger which is lighter than the Sig's 12 lb double action pull (a Sig with a factory SRT has a shorter reset than a PPQ). This is a perfectly reasonable position, but we could have come to it much faster had we known that he did not want a trigger heavier than 5-7 lbs.

FWIW, I am a noticeably faster on my first shots with my PPQ (and Glock, and M&P, and 1911, etc.) than with my P228 or M11-A1. However, my follow-up shots with the Sigs are a hair faster. This is attributed to a little less muzzle flip with the Sig, its lighter SA trigger, and my overall familiarity with the platform.

As I said in my original post, I prefer the DA/SA platform and I am a big fan of Sig. I was only considering the PPQ because of three reasons. The first being the awesome reviews it gets on its reliability, trigger, and ergonomics. Second, it's considerably less expensive than the Sig. And lastly, part of me wants to have something different than the other guns that I already have. (DA/SA and SAO hammer fired weapons)

There are also three reasons why I'm considering the P229. First reason is familiarity since I already have a P226. Second is I prefer all metal, hammer fired guns. And lastly, the Sig will more than likely be the softer shooter.

And I don't actually need something that feels or shoots like a 1911 for my carry gun, just something with a good trigger, reliable track record, and comfortable to carry. Thanks for your advice. You make some good points.

SmokinSigs357
09-04-13, 12:19
I have both and will tell you that if I had to choose a gun to shoot all day, it would be my P229 only because of the weight/recoil factor.

That being said, since this is going to be your ccw, I'd recommend the PPQ because it is lighter. The Q is dead nuts accurate and I have noticed no increased muzzle flip over my other polymer guns.

I also think you may prefer the grip on the PPQ as well.

Good luck...two totally different but excellent firearms!

Sensei
09-04-13, 13:00
As I said in my original post, I prefer the DA/SA platform and I am a big fan of Sig. I was only considering the PPQ because of three reasons. The first being the awesome reviews it gets on its reliability, trigger, and ergonomics. Second, it's considerably less expensive than the Sig. And lastly, part of me wants to have something different than the other guns that I already have. (DA/SA and SAO hammer fired weapons)

There are also three reasons why I'm considering the P229. First reason is familiarity since I already have a P226. Second is I prefer all metal, hammer fired guns. And lastly, the Sig will more than likely be the softer shooter.

And I don't actually need something that feels or shoots like a 1911 for my carry gun, just something with a good trigger, reliable track record, and comfortable to carry. Thanks for your advice. You make some good points.

Now that I know more about your preferences, I can give you better advice. If your primary purpose is deep CCW, the PPQ would be my first choice between the two. This is especially true if you are going to carry in a hot environment with shorts and a short sleeved shirt. The P229 is a heavy enough gun to affect concealment in many people wearing light clothes. I also recommend the PPQ if you mainly shoot striker pistols.

Assuming that you want a Sig but will not consider a P228, my next choice would be the M11-A1 if you are committed to a P229 in 9mm. Keep in mind that a M11-A1 IS NOT at 228 although it may say this on the grips. It is really a 229 (milled stainless slide) with some "upgrades" such as the SRT and coated internals. Most of the upgrades are marketing gimmick, but the factory SRT could be important to you since it significantly reduces reset and does help with follow-up shots. Again, my recommendation on the Sig platform should you go this route would be a P228, but the M11-A1 would be my choice in a 9mm P229. I found mine new online and paid $795 including shipping.