PDA

View Full Version : Buying first handgun - HK45?



ColtM4Carbine
09-02-13, 21:15
I recently purchased my first AR and now looking into getting a handgun. I've done some research and it appears that I can't go wrong with an HK45. I found one for sale on this website:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/52296

I have never purchased a weapon online before and am a little skeptical. Is the website reliable? Is the price decent? Is this the preferred HK45 variant or should I reconsider?

I found some others for sale here but are priced higher:

http://www.eurooptic.com/hk45-pistols.aspx

foxtrotx1
09-02-13, 21:26
Since it's your first handgun, if you are not set on the .45, I would recommend a 9mm. It will be much cheaper in the long run to get in the volume of practice required to become proficient with the pistol.

You will find most of the shooters on this board are 9mm shooters.

Have you held the 45c in person? It's a good idea to shoot a few pistols before buying one. Also, knowing which trigger mod you want with the HK is important too. They vary quite a bit and you should try each for yourself. We can't tell you which one is the best. It's personal preference.

The extra 500 on an HK pistol over a SW, Glock etc. will not be worth the ammo you could be spending the cash on. Practice is always better than gear.

AJD
09-02-13, 21:28
I'd go with a 9mm over a .45 ACP for if your only going to have one handgun. The HK45 is a soft shooter but a 9mm will be easier to shoot well and significantly less expensive to shoot.

Lot's of shooters like the LEM but it can be an acquired taste. The V1 trigger in the HK45 is probably the safest best as you can have DA/SA or carry it cocked and locked.

Until Glock solves their extraction issues or S&W fixes their accuracy issues with the full size M&P I certainly wouldn't recommend what could become a "project" pistol to someone who is buying their first handgun. Having hot brass thrown into your face isn't exactly going to get things off on the right foot for a new shooter.

ColtM4Carbine
09-02-13, 21:33
Thanks for the responses. I have not had a chance to physically hold an HK45, however I have put many rounds through a friend's Sig P220 and would prefer a .45 ACP. I have no intentions of carrying the HK45, I would just be using it as a recreational shooter and possibly home defense. It would be my only current handgun, but I would like to get a 1911 at some point in the future.

straterman
09-02-13, 21:50
I think you should check out the hk p30 in 9mm. Check prices and availability of 9mm in your area, in my town 9 and 45 are a few dallers apart so I only shoot 45 now. But 9 is deffenitely the way to go to start off better recoil more ammo and last year ammo was half the price of 45. If your planing on getting a 1911 later than you will have a 45. I carry a 9mm and feel very confident in it. If 9 ammo is cheap and available I would get some sort of 9 in a heart beat. Anything hk is just going to run perfect out of the box. If set on hk get v1 or v3. Take a look at m&p 45 they are awesome I think they shoot better than hk45 and half the price the mags are also half the price.

Kchen986
09-02-13, 21:52
Buds is Good to Go. I purchased a couple of handguns from them and shipped them to my FFL w/o issue. Just be aware the prices reflected are cash prices, and their CC prices bump up the price.

As far as the Hk45 goes, you can do worse than the Hk45. It's laser accurate, good SA trigger, smooth DA pull. Great ergos.

On the other hand, it's limited in capacity--10 rounds. A 1911 w/ an extended mag could do the same. It's a large, full sized pistol, so it will be hard to carry if you ever change your mind and want to carry. Mag prices are also somewhere in the stratosphere. Finally--.45ACP is expensive and hard to find, so you will notice that you're paying closer to $25/50 rds instead of something like $17/50 for 9mm. You might also want night sights instead of the asinine glow in the dark shits that come w/ Hk45s.

For a first pistol, it should set you up to become a life-long shooter. Everytime I drill the bulls-eye at 15yards with my Hk45, I get an impish grin. You'll also find that these guns keep their value well.

Cylinder Head
09-02-13, 21:55
My first handgun was an HK45. V3 I believe. Buy with confidence it is a very soft shooter and an excellent excellent excellent gun.

Coal Dragger
09-02-13, 22:20
While I would probably recommend a 9mm as a first centerfire handgun if a semi-auto is what you want, I can heartily recommend HK pistols as I had a USP45 that I still kick myself for ever letting go of.

If you can afford HK and the magazines, and ammo etc then go for it.

mrvip27
09-02-13, 22:43
If you are set on the HK45, go with that. It is an excellent handgun. Shoots great!

But if you want a cheaper alternative and something in 9mm, check out the Walther ppq.

SkiDevil
09-02-13, 23:22
If I were going to have only 1 pistol then it would definitely be an HK. That said, without knowing your background, shooting experience, or ammo budget I would concur that a 9mm pistol may be a better choice. However, if you want a .45 and can afford to shoot it buy one.

The HK 45 is an excellent pistol, but as someone else said it may be worthwhile to check-out the other .45 ACP models like the HK 45C, HK USP 45 full size and compact.

Lastly, if it is possible then I would spend the time to find a shooting range and shoot the models that you are interested in before spending your hard earned cash on a pistol.

Of all the brands available right now HK is one of the most reliable and trouble free that you can buy.

SteyrSSG
09-02-13, 23:25
You will get a different answer from everyone. There is not an HK made that you can go wrong with. I have an HK USP Custom Combat in .40, and an OD Green USP Tactical in .45, a USP Compact in 9mm, and a USP Expert and it is not going to be any harder learning on a .45 than a 9mm. The 9mm will have more velocity and hardly any less ft. lbs. of energy than the 9mm, which is why I have drop in barrels for most all or some type of conversion. My Glock 30SF .45 now has a drop in .40 Rowland barrel which is real close to a .44 Magnum as far as stats. I also like 10mm, 9x25 Dillon, .40 Super, 5.7x28mm, and just acquired a .224S for my Beretta that screams. If I were you I wouldn't start out with a 10mm or anything like that, but a .45 is nothing to learn brother. I have an FN Herstal FDE FNX 45 Tactical I am getting rid of. Take care man.

ColtM4Carbine
09-02-13, 23:36
Would just like to thank everyone for taking the time to share their opinions. I am leaning towards the HK45 V1. The other variants appeared to be compact models or had a threaded barrel extension for a silencer which I would have no interest in. I was mainly concerned with the website I was looking into and if the price was fairly decent. I also have no experience with buying weapons online so I don't really know what to expect in having one shipped to an FFL.


Edit: What is a LEM conversion?

Timbonez
09-02-13, 23:40
Bud's is an interesting seller. They're a reliable dealer, they have some of the best prices online on most of the firearms they sell, and their shipping is free. That being said, they will change their prices on their firearms almost instantly after one or two have been purchased earlier in the day. I just placed an order earlier today for an HK45 on their website and it was priced at $965. Now it's $1015.

I couldn't care less that they typically market to the uninformed shooter, and that they like to push bargain priced, garbage firearms. They still sell quality firearms at a good price, and I haven't had an issue with purchasing a S&W 325 Thunder Ranch, Arsenal SGL-31, and HK USP 9 from them in the past.

slappy
09-02-13, 23:44
Take my input lightly as there are far more experienced shooters on this forum. However, being a relatively new handgun shooter as well maybe this will help.

I started with an M&P 45 full size and have over the last year acquired an M&P 9 compact, 2 M&P 9 full size and an HK P30 v3. I've rented glocks of all calibers and they just don't agree with me. The M&P lineup has never batted an eye with several thousand rounds down all. I struggled with the HK trigger and shelved it for some time. Recently dug it out and am beginning to blend with the trigger better. It's far more accurate in my hand than the M&P 9's are though I cannot shoot it as fast. Now the M&P 45 is pushing 5k rounds and I shoot that gun head and shoulders above anything else I've shot, this could very well be due to the larger frame fitting my hand better. In my town 9mm is still near impossible to find, 45 is readily available and not too high compared to 9. I'd advise shooting a few different models before you settle on one. Not everything works for everyone.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

Sensei
09-02-13, 23:57
Thanks for the responses. I have not had a chance to physically hold an HK45, however I have put many rounds through a friend's Sig P220 and would prefer a .45 ACP. I have no intentions of carrying the HK45, I would just be using it as a recreational shooter and possibly home defense. It would be my only current handgun, but I would like to get a 1911 at some point in the future.

The bolded statements lead me to believe you are making an impulse purchase. My suggestion is to slow down and heed the advice of those telling you to consider a 9mm for your first handgun purchase. It is hard to go wrong with a P30, Glock 17/19, Sig P228, PPQ, or M&P9.

You should at lease lay hands on, and preferably shoot, any handgun that you plan to purchase for anything other than collection purposes. Feel free to disregard my feedback if you income is such that $1000 purchases are an afterthought.

foxtrotx1
09-03-13, 00:01
Buying any handgun sight unseen is just silly. Unless of course you have played with one before.

Coal Dragger
09-03-13, 01:56
Buying any handgun sight unseen is just silly. Unless of course you have played with one before.

This is very very true.

On the other hand, of all the brands of pistols one could buy sight unseen and trust to run right out of the box no muss no fuss I'll bet any of us would be hard pressed to come up with any better pistol than an HK. I don't even own one right now (need to fix that), and kick myself for selling the one I had. I love many other types of handguns, but if I could have only one semi-auto pistol it would be an HK.

Dead Man
09-03-13, 02:08
Buying any handgun sight unseen is just silly. Unless of course you have played with one before.

I'll never believe dry-firing a pistol at a wooden indian with a picture of Bin Laden taped to the head offers the new gun buyer any insight into how it will work for him.

These poly guns are plug-and-play. Unless you have child hands and you can't get a decent grip on a Glock, they're all going to put bullets down range reliably. They're all going to work fine for anyone on the firing line. Better to look at accessory and peripheral existence and availability. Holsters that fit your need, magazines, parts, etc.

Coal Dragger
09-03-13, 02:47
Dry fire is useful to me, and so is inspecting the overall machining and fitting quality so handling in person is a plus. However I really only need to do it with an example of the brand or model. After that I'll order a gun sight unseen no problem.

foxtrotx1
09-03-13, 03:10
I'll never believe dry-firing a pistol at a wooden indian with a picture of Bin Laden taped to the head offers the new gun buyer any insight into how it will work for him.

These poly guns are plug-and-play. Unless you have child hands and you can't get a decent grip on a Glock, they're all going to put bullets down range reliably. They're all going to work fine for anyone on the firing line. Better to look at accessory and peripheral existence and availability. Holsters that fit your need, magazines, parts, etc.

Not true at all IME. Grip shape varies alot, you have to work hard to overcome a grip that doesn't jive with your hands.

Reliability isn't the question here. It's the marriage between your hand and the gun. That's my ten cents. It's up to the OP to take it or leave it.

RHINOWSO
09-03-13, 07:55
Lots of people survive shooting a 45 as their first handgun, me included (German P220).

HK45 is a fine pistol, go for it.

RHINOWSO
09-03-13, 07:57
Bud's is an interesting seller. They're a reliable dealer, they have some of the best prices online on most of the firearms they sell, and their shipping is free. That being said, they will change their prices on their firearms almost instantly after one or two have been purchased earlier in the day. I just placed an order earlier today for an HK45 on their website and it was priced at $965. Now it's $1015.
Yes, I noticed this too when I bought a SCAR 16 FDE back in 2011. They'd list price as $2071 for a day, then it would jump to $2299, then back down. I jumped and got one at $2071 and received it as described.

High Tower
09-03-13, 17:10
I'll never believe dry-firing a pistol at a wooden indian with a picture of Bin Laden taped to the head offers the new gun buyer any insight into how it will work for him.



This gave me a much needed laugh :D

94% of the time I would disagree with this, but not in this case.

OP, I say go for it. The HK45 is an excellent piece and you will enjoy it I'm sure.

SiGfever
09-03-13, 17:37
That is a fine pistol that you are considering. Also look at the HK45c in Variant 1. With this model CCW is a little more possible and even though you state you will not be carrying it, things do change and it would serve you well. As already stated the HK USP 45 and USP 45c are also great choices and can be had for quite a bit less. My USP 40c V1 is one that I will not let go. just my $.015

iLift45s
09-03-13, 20:14
Hk 45 and 45C are some of the finest pistols made! Combine a Bruce Gray work over and it's almost perfection. I absolutely love mine! The full size literally has the recoil of a 9mm! They are so accurate. Plus a 45 punches big holes in things.

Timbonez
09-03-13, 20:50
Yes, I noticed this too when I bought a SCAR 16 FDE back in 2011. They'd list price as $2071 for a day, then it would jump to $2299, then back down. I jumped and got one at $2071 and received it as described.

The same thing happened to me when I bought the SGL-31. I just thought the OP should be aware.

I also agree with RHINOWSO that a .45 ACP handgun is a perfectly acceptable first handgun to own. You could do a lot worse than a HK45 for a first handgun.

Craiger
09-03-13, 21:51
Well I'm a new shooter too. I started with an FNS9 and recently purchased a FNX45. I find the grip angle, da/sa trigger and overall weight of the FNX (like a 1911) much easier to shoot accurately. The FNX is also a soft shooter and will be selling my 9mm soon. From my experience I wish I started with a 45.

I would recommend the HK as it has a lot of the same characteristics as my FNX.

It's time for another 45 for me, fired a 1911 at the range a couple of weeks ago. I must have one, at least one to start with anyway. Talk about an easy shooter, wow!

I went from never owning a gun in February, to now having 2 handguns, a 12 gauge and ready to buy my first AR on Thursday. The gun industry should thank Uncle Sam, they are the best gun salesmen ever.

montrala
09-04-13, 03:49
I am leaning towards the HK45 V1.

Edit: What is a LEM conversion?

For a start V1 seems to be best choice. Later on you can convert your pistol to any trigger variant you like with swapping just few, drop-in parts.

LEM conversion is a kit of parts that can convert any trigger variant of HK45 (and HK45C, USP or USP Compact) into one of LEM (Law Enforcement Modification) variants. This is sort of light DA trigger with long first shot trigger pull and relatively short reset for following shots. There are people who like this trigger type very much, but there are also people that hate it from bottom of their hearts. There are also some that had kind of love-hate relationship with LEM (for example myself - but now we are old marriage). :smile:

You will find several topic on LEM, with description how it works and how to do conversion on HKPro forum. There is also nice and fresh piece on LEM advantages here (by Darryl "nyeti" Bolke) (http://pistol-training.com/archives/8549).

chadb
09-04-13, 07:56
I have never shot a HK45 but I can tell you that over the years I have fired and owned many 45's, 40's and 9's. One thing I've learned is that a quality pistol is key. If I don't like the trigger pull/ reset I'll shoot it once and it will then sit on the self for a few years and then I'll sell it at a loss. Same goes for the way the slide operates and felt recoil. I have found that 9 mm works best for me. I have a Sig Sauer that has the short reset trigger(SRT) and I love that trigger. I also like the Smith and Wesson M&P pistols. I have however read a lot of reviews where a common thyme seems to be complaints about the trigger, but I have no issue with it. With whatever pistol you get you can always drop in an apex kit if you don't like the factory trigger. A few things to take into consideration before buying is availability of ammo ( right now all is hard to find), cost of ammo is a factor for me, what fits best in YOUR hand, and for what purpose you will be using this pistol.

BoringGuy45
09-04-13, 10:24
Lots of people survive shooting a 45 as their first handgun, me included (German P220).

HK45 is a fine pistol, go for it.

Same here (Kimber 1911 Full Size). When I took my safety course for my carry permit, the instructor was a huge Glockaphile. He might as well have been Gaston Glock himself. He told us that he recommended only the Glock 17. If we really wanted, a Glock 19 would be okay but the small size could lead to bad shooting habits such as flinching and he strongly recommended against any new shooters using anything except full sized 9mm guns.

He went around the room and asked what each of us were planning on buying for our first pistol. Most said Glock. I said 1911. He gave me that look that said, "Maybe you should just stick to Call of Duty and leave the real shooting to me." He told me that the 1911 was WAY too complex and difficult for a beginner to handle safely and I should have many years of experience before I even consider one. But by the time I have enough expertise to safely own a 1911, I would be educated enough to know what an unnecessarily elaborate abortion of a design the 1911 actually is and I wouldn't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole and would stick with Glock. Also, .45 would cause me to flinch and make me into a dangerous shooter. Save the .45 for after a few years of shooting, when I could purchase a Glock 21. How about Sig or HK? Good, but too elaborate and complex for a beginner to use safely. M&P? XD? Cheaply Glock knock off garbage. Will jam if you do something like...shooting it. Glock, Glock, and only Glock. If I don't want a Glock, get a Glock. If I the Glock doesn't feel right, get a Glock instead. It was really annoying.

I made a point to get a 1911 as my first gun. No regrets. No flinching, no ADs. I found I shoot .45 a lot better than 9mm.

Get what fits your hand. Try different designs in each of the big 3 calibers and pick which one you like best.

SteveS
09-04-13, 10:34
The first pistol I shot was when I was 10 years old [1963]and it was my cousins Ruger single six. When I was 19 years old the first pistol I bought was a college roomies 1911 acp . I would recommend a 9mm because it is cheaper to shoot. Reload or store bought ammo. Though the 45 acp is nice to shoot. Now lets start you thinking about getting started on reloading.

SmokinSigs357
09-04-13, 12:23
If you are set on the HK45, go with that. It is an excellent handgun. Shoots great!

But if you want a cheaper alternative and something in 9mm, check out the Walther ppq.

This.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

okie john
09-05-13, 11:52
I recently purchased my first AR and now looking into getting a handgun. I've done some research and it appears that I can't go wrong with an HK45.

I'm not sure that you're asking the right question, so I'm going to buck the trend and suggest a 22. You haven't mentioned concealed carry, hunting, or home defense, which leads me to believe that this will be mostly a range gun, so there's no need for your new pistol to chamber a centerfire cartridge.

I've been shooting handguns for over 40 years, including lots of time competing with them, hunting deer with them, teaching people to shoot them in classroom and informal settings, using them in conventional military units, and using them in special operations units. In that time, I've learned that shooting a handgun well is much harder than shooting a long gun well. The key to mastering it is shooting, and the more you shoot the better you'll get. The less the gun kicks, the longer you can shoot in a given session, and the longer you can train on the essentials. So for a first handgun, I'd take a long, hard look at a Ruger or Browning 22 auto. You can get either one for the cost of 10-12 boxes of 45 ACP ammo, and with light maintenance, it will last for the rest of your life.

Speaking of the cost of 45 ACP ammo, I'd steer away from that cartridge for a first pistol purely for financial reasons. In my area, 45 FMJ training ammo runs about $28/box, while 9mm is about $18/box. (We don't know whether those figures will rise or fall over the next year, but the difference will probably hold steady at about $10/box.) It's one thing to pay the extra money here and there if you only shoot a little. But remember that to become a good pistol shot, you need to shoot a LOT. $10/box over 10k rounds--which is about a year's worth of shooting for a lot of people on this site--is $2,000. That would buy you an additional 6,000 rounds of 9mm at current prices, and more if prices drop. Over ten years, that's $20,000 you could have used for training, travel, range dues, ancillary gear, matches, a down payment on a house, shiny objects to keep your wife off your ass, etc. If you already have that stuff covered, then you could have bought 60,000 more rounds of 9mm ammo and shot that much more...

So for a first pistol, get a 22. The question of your first centerfire pistol should be another thread entirely.


Okie John

Coal Dragger
09-05-13, 14:17
I'm not sure that you're asking the right question, so I'm going to buck the trend and suggest a 22. You haven't mentioned concealed carry, hunting, or home defense, which leads me to believe that this will be mostly a range gun, so there's no need for your new pistol to chamber a centerfire cartridge.

I've been shooting handguns for over 40 years, including lots of time competing with them, hunting deer with them, teaching people to shoot them in classroom and informal settings, using them in conventional military units, and using them in special operations units. In that time, I've learned that shooting a handgun well is much harder than shooting a long gun well. The key to mastering it is shooting, and the more you shoot the better you'll get. The less the gun kicks, the longer you can shoot in a given session, and the longer you can train on the essentials. So for a first handgun, I'd take a long, hard look at a Ruger or Browning 22 auto. You can get either one for the cost of 10-12 boxes of 45 ACP ammo, and with light maintenance, it will last for the rest of your life.

Speaking of the cost of 45 ACP ammo, I'd steer away from that cartridge for a first pistol purely for financial reasons. In my area, 45 FMJ training ammo runs about $28/box, while 9mm is about $18/box. (We don't know whether those figures will rise or fall over the next year, but the difference will probably hold steady at about $10/box.) It's one thing to pay the extra money here and there if you only shoot a little. But remember that to become a good pistol shot, you need to shoot a LOT. $10/box over 10k rounds--which is about a year's worth of shooting for a lot of people on this site--is $2,000. That would buy you an additional 6,000 rounds of 9mm at current prices, and more if prices drop. Over ten years, that's $20,000 you could have used for training, travel, range dues, ancillary gear, matches, a down payment on a house, shiny objects to keep your wife off your ass, etc. If you already have that stuff covered, then you could have bought 60,000 more rounds of 9mm ammo and shot that much more...

So for a first pistol, get a 22. The question of your first centerfire pistol should be another thread entirely.


Okie John

+ 100,000,000,000,000

Can't agree more. I am a rimfire nut.

While I was in the Marines I transferred into the reserves, and was able to shoot competitively for Southwest Missouri State University my senior year. I shot bullseye, and bought my own equipment (Benelli MP95E) so I had access to it at all times for league shooting outside of school. I got free .22LR to shoot, as much as I wanted (which was a lot!). There is no replacement for trigger time and being able to train on basic fundamentals of trigger control, sight alignment/sight picture, and administrative handling of the pistol. You can get a hell of a lot more of that invaluable training with a .22LR than you can anything else for the same $$$ spent. Plus the training you will get as a new shooter is the best kind, that is to say low recoil, low noise, low cost. That way you can focus on actually hitting things instead of trying to control a centerfire pistol that may give you some bad habits like anticipating recoil and flinching.

I do enjoy shooting centerfire, and I am a big fan of the .45ACP (I just shoot them well for some reason). However I reload, so my ammo costs are far far lower than those buying factory ammo or even factory reloaded ammo. I have a lot of .45ACP brass on hand, and no shortage of powder or primers. My biggest expense is the cost of actual projectiles, but I shoot a lot of cast lead or plated stuff for practice and that is still pretty cheap to shoot.

Metal_Mania
09-05-13, 15:17
Like others have said, it wouldn't hurt to go to a gun store handle the different models H&K has to offer. You might find that you like how the a different model feels better or vice versa. An other thing to consider is that H&K offers other .45 models that have 12 round mags.

Once you feel comfortable with a certain model, I wouldn't worry about buying through Bud's. Their a big reliable online vendor that deals with FFL's, their not about to get in trouble with the government. I've bought all of my AR lower receivers online and had them shipped to an FFL without problems.

Like you, once I get enough cash, I'm dead set on getting an H&K .45 handgun. I'm leaning towards the USP .45 tactical...

Guilty
09-06-13, 14:07
HK45 is an excellent .45 ACP handgun, buy with confidence. The HK45 can be used as a conceal carry, you just have to wear the right clothes. The HK45 is obviously easier to conceal in cooler weather months.
The HK P30 or P30L is an excellent all-weather conceal carry handgun and makes a great complimentary handgun to own along with the HK45.
I suggest that you buy the HK45 since you want a .45 caliber handgun and don't look back. Realize that owning HK's can be addictive, and you will eventually buy the HK P30 or P30L.

Tzook
09-06-13, 14:15
Honestly, for a first gun I'd skip the HK45 and get a P30 instead, if you're set on Hk. Practice makes perfect, and you can get a hell of a lot more practice for your money with 9mm.

Failure2Stop
09-06-13, 16:57
There are significant advantages in buying a 9mm as a first pistol (unless you want to hone traditional marksmanship via .22).

Lower cost of ammo, lower recoil, higher capacity and effective ballistic performance in comparison to .45.

Nothing wrong with getting an HK45 if that's what you want, it is indeed a very nice pistol.

In my observation, those that buy a decent 9mm can shoot more, longer, and faster than other service caliber pistols, which is the best way to gain high-level performance.

Andrewsky
09-06-13, 22:50
I recently purchased my first AR and now looking into getting a handgun. I've done some research and it appears that I can't go wrong with an HK45. I found one for sale on this website:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/52296

I have never purchased a weapon online before and am a little skeptical. Is the website reliable? Is the price decent? Is this the preferred HK45 variant or should I reconsider?

I found some others for sale here but are priced higher:

http://www.eurooptic.com/hk45-pistols.aspx

It is hard to justify the additional cost of an HK45 versus other common service pistols.

Get a service pistol in the $500 to $600 range and spend the rest of the money on a good set of leather gear (belt, holster, and magazine pouch).

jc000
09-07-13, 07:01
OP: if you do some hunting, I'll wager you could find a HK USP (in .45) for +/- $700 used. It's a great pistol and has a very solid 12+1 capacity.

I have a few thousand rounds through my LEM 9mm HK and its been a tricky trigger for me. I'd def try to shoot LEM against DA/SA if you could.

The Dumb Gun Collector
09-07-13, 07:39
There is no harm in going with the best. The HK45 is probably the best combat .45 available.

tom frost
09-07-13, 10:57
There is no harm in going with the best. The HK45 is probably the best combat .45 available.

In all fairness, there is a level of subjective opinion in that assertion. How do you quantify best?

ralph
09-07-13, 12:15
It is hard to justify the additional cost of an HK45 versus other common service pistols.

Get a service pistol in the $500 to $600 range and spend the rest of the money on a good set of leather gear (belt, holster, and magazine pouch).

Not really, A good 1911 will start at about $1000 and go up from there.. Considering all one needs with a HK45,45c, is the trigger variant you want, and your choice of night sights, it is a bargain for what it offers. Utter reliability, and accuracy right out of the box... In the past I've owned XD, Glock, M&P, SA 1911's Kimber, Got rid of all of them, and have been buying HK's. Recently bought a HK45ct..after shooting it,I'll have to admit, out of the box it shoots better than my Mid size M&P45 that has a Apex trigger....

Cylinder Head
09-07-13, 13:33
In all fairness, there is a level of subjective opinion in that assertion. How do you quantify best?

The people involved in its development, the quality of manufacture, the amalgam of weapons it evolved from (the USP and the 1911), and of course ToddG's torture test.

tom frost
09-07-13, 14:49
The people involved in its development, the quality of manufacture, the amalgam of weapons it evolved from (the USP and the 1911), and of course ToddG's torture test.

Frankly I don't know if any of those things make it objectively "the best". I'm not familiar with the torture test you reference, but unless it was administered to multiple examples of several different pistols it probably doesn't conclusively prove the superiority of HKs product.

I'm not sure if the people involved in it's development need to be considered either, if John Moses Browning arose and designed a Hi-Point (or whatever those are) clon would it be great by default, likewise if Pee-Wee Herman had designed the 1911 (nevermind the timeline) would it be any less amazing?

There are many firearms that feature a high quality of manufacture.

The 1911 and the USP don't have anything to do with anything but themselves. If someone made me an ice cream and pork burrito, it probably wouldn't be very great, even though I like both pork burritos and ice cream.



Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's a fine pistol, I just think calling it the best might be hard to prove... but ultimately it doesn't really matter, I'm just presenting a different viewpoint.

HKGuns
09-07-13, 15:16
The HK45 series are wonderful and reliable pistols.

However, for Pete's sake, please go to the range and shoot a variety of pistols before you plunk down a grand on something you've never shot before.

After doing so and you still want to buy the HK try to determine in advance what variant you want. If you can't find the variant you think you want / need ask on HKPro if the model you buy is convertible to the model you want. (Parts to do the conversions are usually readily available and the process, if you're nimbler than a monkey, takes roughly 15 minutes.)

Hunter Rose
09-07-13, 15:23
The HK45 series are wonderful and reliable pistols.

However, for Pete's sake, please go to the range and shoot a variety of pistols before you plunk down a grand on something you've never shot before.

After doing so and you still want to buy the HK try to determine in advance what variant you want. If you can't find the variant you think you want / need ask on HKPro if the model you buy is convertible to the model you want. (Parts to do the conversions are usually readily available and the process, if you're nimbler than a monkey, takes roughly 15 minutes.)

The HK45 series is convertible to any Variant or LEM configuration you want.

HKGuns
09-07-13, 15:35
The HK45 series is convertible to any Variant or LEM configuration you want.

Are you 100% certain of that? There are conversion gaps in other HK models....Not saying you're wrong. I've not looked that closely at any HK45 conversion recently. (Most first time buyers aren't even aware that versions are available.)

AJD
09-07-13, 16:16
I don't think any other .45 ACP combines reliability, durability and mechanical accuracy better than the HK45.

That said I would go for the HK45 Compact having owned both and now only having the Compact.

MountainRaven
09-07-13, 16:38
In all fairness, there is a level of subjective opinion in that assertion. How do you quantify best?

Ergonomics, reliability, durability, and accuracy.

Plus all the reasons why the HK45C was chosen to replace the Mk23 and not, say, an M&P or a Px4.


Are you 100% certain of that? There are conversion gaps in other HK models....Not saying you're wrong. I've not looked that closely at any HK45 conversion recently. (Most first time buyers aren't even aware that versions are available.)

I'm not aware of any gaps in converting the HK45/HK45C.


I don't think any other .45 ACP combines reliability, durability and mechanical accuracy better than the HK45.

That said I would go for the HK45 Compact having owned both and now only having the Compact.

I concur with this advice.

Hunter Rose
09-07-13, 18:06
Are you 100% certain of that? There are conversion gaps in other HK models....Not saying you're wrong. I've not looked that closely at any HK45 conversion recently. (Most first time buyers aren't even aware that versions are available.)

Yes I am 100% sure. The HK45 is based off the USP Series and is convertible to any trigger variation or LEM.

The P30 is the one that HK states has gaps. I.e. P30 S or LS models cannot be converted to LEM according to HK although it appears possible based on recent user feedback.

MountainRaven
09-07-13, 19:57
Yes I am 100% sure. The HK45 is based off the USP Series and is convertible to any trigger variation or LEM.

The P30 is the one that HK states has gaps. I.e. P30 S or LS models cannot be converted to LEM according to HK although it appears possible based on recent user feedback.

Picking nits, but...

H&K is selling factory models of the S and LS that have the LEM installed. In fact, the entire reason the P30L exists, or at least the primary one (Norwegian Police Service contract), involves the LEM trigger.

No, the P30 and P2000 both have gaps, but it's not based on L and to a lesser extent on S.

If you want an H&K P30 with a safety, you have to buy a P30S or P30LS. If you want an H&K P30 or P2000 with a DA/SA trigger, you have to buy it with the DA/SA trigger (unless, presumably, you want a de facto SAO P30S). If you want an H&K P30 or P2000 with a LEM trigger it is best (though not thoroughly required) that you buy one with a LEM trigger.

Averageman
09-08-13, 09:35
I would have to suggest a .22 for your first handgun. A nice Ruger will last a lifetime and provide you with plenty of training at a very nice price.
I would suggest some steel challange matches with that .22 and you'll find it a nice way to start.
As for the H&K in .45ACP.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r263/Averageman1/HKUSPc45.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/Averageman1/media/HKUSPc45.jpg.html)
I like mine.

Andrewsky
09-08-13, 12:29
Not really, A good 1911 will start at about $1000 and go up from there.. Considering all one needs with a HK45,45c, is the trigger variant you want, and your choice of night sights, it is a bargain for what it offers. Utter reliability, and accuracy right out of the box... In the past I've owned XD, Glock, M&P, SA 1911's Kimber, Got rid of all of them, and have been buying HK's. Recently bought a HK45ct..after shooting it,I'll have to admit, out of the box it shoots better than my Mid size M&P45 that has a Apex trigger....

I like the HK45 series as pistols. They are definitely near the top.

However, I see the following scenario a lot with friends (most of this probably does not apply to the OP, since he's on a site like this):

They decide they want to get a pistol. They spend a lot of time and money finding the perfect pistol for them. They take it to the range once or twice and find it satisfactory.

They have no further desire to support their new investment.

Given a budget of about $1000, I'd rather see someone buy a CZ-75 and spend the rest of the $700 on good cleaning gear, a good pistol safe, spare magazines, target and JHP ammunition, and premium leather gear so that it is easy to carry (set aside $150 to $200 for a good holster, magazine pouch, and belt) than spend $1000 on the pistol and have nothing left over for accessories.

The gun itself is not as important as the setup supporting it.

DreadPirateMoyer
09-08-13, 13:09
My perspective:

1. The HK45/HK45C are, without a doubt, the best .45 duty pistols on the market today. They've got a MRBS of approximately 10 times the industry average, are as accurate as a custom 1911 that costs 3x as much, and require fewer parts replacements, have a much more spread out maintenance schedule, and come out of the box with better QC than any of their competitors (Glock, M&P, Sig, etc.). Hands down the best .45 you can buy, I think.

2. With that said, I'd buy the HK45C, not the standard HK45. The HK45 is one big pistol, and has a few ergonomic disadvantages as compared to the C. I think the C is a much better pistol for 95% of people, especially civilians who won't always have the option or need to wear their gun in a drop-leg holster. :)

3. And finally, if this is your first handgun, regardless of what you think you know, I'd buy a .22 or 9mm to start. The reason I say this is because back when I had my first handguns and was learning on them, I too purchased a high-end .45 to start. Because of the .45's ammo cost, I severely retarded my training and competency, only being able to get in 10-50% of what I could have been doing with a quality .22 or 9mm. I'd say it takes a lot more time to become proficient with a pistol than a rifle, so being able to at least double your training density will go a long way. On top of that, you don't want to learn to tinker and care for a pistol with an HK45, because if you do something wrong and damage the pistol, you'll feel like absolute shit. You'll still feel like shit if you bonk up a .22, but less so. :P

If I were you, OP, I'd get an FN FNS9 (too many persisting issues with Glocks and M&Ps, IMO) or Ruger SR22. I'd buy the HK45C once you have more experience under your belt. I'd buy it as the second pistol in your collection.

BUT if you do go with an HK45C, you just made a stupendous purchase. Check it: http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027

ChadF
09-08-13, 14:53
No doubt, HK45 is awesome. I've owned two. I'd suggest handling one before you buy, better yet, shoot it and many others before you buy. My first HK was a USPc in 9mm- which proved to be wise. I'd suggest that very pistol for a first.

ralph
09-08-13, 17:17
I like the HK45 series as pistols. They are definitely near the top.

However, I see the following scenario a lot with friends (most of this probably does not apply to the OP, since he's on a site like this):

They decide they want to get a pistol. They spend a lot of time and money finding the perfect pistol for them. They take it to the range once or twice and find it satisfactory.

They have no further desire to support their new investment.

Given a budget of about $1000, I'd rather see someone buy a CZ-75 and spend the rest of the $700 on good cleaning gear, a good pistol safe, spare magazines, target and JHP ammunition, and premium leather gear so that it is easy to carry (set aside $150 to $200 for a good holster, magazine pouch, and belt) than spend $1000 on the pistol and have nothing left over for accessories.

The gun itself is not as important as the setup supporting it.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree.. I can't see spending $700 on cleaning supplys, targets, holster....extra mags? yeah sure, I myself figure that in when buying a pistol. JHP ammo? a couple boxes will do for self defense/home defense, more can be picked up later. Practice ammo is more important here. Accessories themselves are not as important as learning how to shoot the gun well, and for the most part, can be picked up on a as needed basis..

Andrewsky
09-08-13, 19:21
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree.. I can't see spending $700 on cleaning supplys, targets, holster....extra mags? yeah sure, I myself figure that in when buying a pistol. JHP ammo? a couple boxes will do for self defense/home defense, more can be picked up later. Practice ammo is more important here. Accessories themselves are not as important as learning how to shoot the gun well, and for the most part, can be picked up on a as needed basis..

I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about.:) I just wanted to point out to the OP that he should keep in mind that he'll need to have a budget larger than the cost of the gun itself to get set up.

Sensei
09-09-13, 01:53
Owning both an HK45 and Hk45C, I see two big problems with the pistol. Both of these issues deal with the trigger. First, many people with larger than average hands will experience trigger bite primarily with the fullsize model. This is due to the molding of the trigger guard combined with excessive overtravel of the trigger that pinches the finger particularly if too much of the distal phalanx is in contact. You will only notice this when you actually fire the weapon (you can't feel it on dryfire) since small amounts of torque are needed to produce the pinch. This can be corrected by the "Vickers Modification" made available by Bowie Tactical. It's not a huge deal since the modification cost less than shipping, but it is a significant screw-up on HK's part.

The seconds is the DA trigger pull. The weight on my HK45C approaches 13lbs and it stacks throughout the long pull. While I appreciate that one can overcome this DA pull with training, 13lbs is ridiculous and there is little that can be done to improve it. This means that most shooters are left with carrying the weapon cocked and locked, or switching to the LEM version unless they want to invest the time to master the industry's worst DA trigger pull in a combat worthy weapon. I chose the first option since I grew up a 1911 shooter and the SA trigger best lends itself to other platforms in my hands (LEM is its own beast).

While these 2 points are not fatal flaws, they are enough of a concern that any prospective buyer should do their due diligence and shoot the damn thing before they commit to the platform. When I say shoot it, I don't mean a couple of boxes of ammo at the 7 yard line. Take a timer and try a FAST drill with an HK45. The results may surprise you when you compare against another combat worthy pistol such as a Glock 21, M&P45, Sig P220/227, or quality 1911.

ralph
09-09-13, 03:45
I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about.:) I just wanted to point out to the OP that he should keep in mind that he'll need to have a budget larger than the cost of the gun itself to get set up.

That's pretty much a given with any new pistol purchase, isn't?

Andrewsky
09-13-13, 20:29
That's pretty much a given with any new pistol purchase, isn't?

Yes, but sometimes first-time buyers don't anticipate it.