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WARRIOR84
09-05-13, 09:45
I am considering stippling some pistols and have a friend that thinks it will weaken the frame. I am wanting to see if anyone has long term info with moderate to hard use. I have done PMAGS and not noticed any compromise in the integrity of the PMAG. I did search and could not find anything about any failures.

William B.
09-05-13, 09:50
I think you will be fine in that regard. I would estimate that I've put about 2,000 rounds through my G19 since stippling it earlier this year and have had no issues with it.

sammage
09-05-13, 09:51
I did search and could not find anything about any failures.

Therein lies a clue. Have been rotating a couple of stippled Glocks through my carry rotation for over two years, with no issues.

WARRIOR84
09-05-13, 10:12
I figured that would be the answer but I was just curious about what everyone had to say about it.

BBS
09-05-13, 10:16
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfdn8bjYQno

ericl
09-05-13, 10:17
Have stippled my G17 and G19, as well as a couple of Glocks for some friends. No issues. Tons of online instruction on how to do it and suggestions to get the results you want (aggressive vs. mild). The hardest part is that first touch of the tool you are using (I used a soldering iron) to the frame.....it is like jumping in the deep end for the first time!

Firecop203
09-05-13, 13:38
Stippling can be a good thing. My son customized a Glock 21SF for me. It turned out really well.

I wanted fine stippling on mine cause I shoot quite a bit and the aggressive stippling cuts into my hands.

As far as compromising the integrity of the frame, I don't see it happening unless you do a reduction and more or less rebuild it.

okie john
09-05-13, 15:18
As far as compromising the integrity of the frame, I don't see it happening unless you do a reduction and more or less rebuild it.

This.

You'd have to start out with malicious intent to weaken the frame.


Okie John

B Cart
09-05-13, 15:21
I've stippled a bunch of mags and a couple Walther PPQs, including my EDC gun, and I haven't ever felt like it was weakening the frame. I just started stippling recently so I've only put 500 or so rounds through my PPQ since the stippling, but no issues at all.

I will say, I much prefer the grip of the stippled PPQ to the original, especially with sweaty or wet hands. As for Pmags, It's fun to stipple a few here and there but I don't feel like it really adds much value for the time involved. YMMV

Averageman
09-05-13, 19:08
I've done two of mine and haven't had an issue.
The G17 round count is appx. 6K.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r263/Averageman1/016.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/Averageman1/media/016.jpg.html)
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r263/Averageman1/011.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/Averageman1/media/011.jpg.html)
No issues at all.

Gutshot John
09-05-13, 19:15
I am considering stippling some pistols and have a friend that thinks it will weaken the frame.

Seen it happen to people who don't know what they're doing. A buddy of mine ruined a Glock 34 that way.

Those that say it can't happen are deluding themselves. Just because it's never happened to them, doesn't mean it can't happen. Can you do it? Sure, for myself I'd rather have a pro take that risk. Even if you do it without weakening the frame, its likely to look like shit. I've never seen a homemade stipple job that didn't look like it was done by monkeys with a soldering iron.

What's it going to cost you? ~$100? Maybe $200?

Good luck.

Gutshot John
09-05-13, 19:15
nevermind

Campbell
09-05-13, 19:31
The monkey would really have to have an attitude with plastic weapons to ruin one. Unless your wanting a portrait of yourself stippled on the side, you should be able to execute a usable texture with no problem. If its not a keeper, or you worried about resale, I would opt out as many people don't seem to care for it, seems to run about 50/50 in my shop. Get a pmag and practice, it really not a big deal.

Gutshot John
09-05-13, 19:53
The monkey would really have to have an attitude with plastic weapons to ruin one.

Or just incompetent...like most people who do this crap at home.

Use too much heat and see what happens to your frame.

86 slo-vo
09-05-13, 19:55
I've done about 10-12 now, have never heard of any problems with it.

Campbell
09-05-13, 20:03
Or just incompetent...like most people who do this crap at home.

Use too much heat and see what happens to your frame.


I have at times been guilty of thinking average people can do average things, but yes, a big fat dose of stupid could ruin a frame.:(

m4brian
09-05-13, 21:10
If you are truly stippling your frame (which means you are using a Light touch from a fine point of a soldering iron or woodburning kit) You would have to be an 800 pound gorilla after a lobotomy to weaken the frame. Yes you can ruin it asthenically and you can find examples of it all over the web. Weaken it? No.

Practice on a P mag and move on to the frame - it is a cinch. With an M and P do it first on a backstrap you don't want and lose nothing if you make a mistake. It is pretty hard to screw up a random pattern.

okie john
09-05-13, 22:48
See the Glock picture thread for great and horrible examples of home stippling jobs. A stippled Glock will probably never be elegant, but it doesn't have to look like Aqua Man, either.


Okie John

tom frost
09-06-13, 07:06
Or just incompetent...like most people who do this crap at home.

Use too much heat and see what happens to your frame.

I think this is a little misleading... if you exercise a small amount of patience and pay attention, with a little foresight stippling is REALLY easy. Opinions vary on aesthetics, but I will say that you would have to be REALLY misguided to structurally damage a frame.... like using an acetylene torch to do your stippling, or falling asleep with your soldering iron resting on the frame... something along those lines.

There is no apprenticeship or school available for stippling polymer firearms... so the only difference between you and a "pro" is how much time you have into it, and how much you charge. They started the same way.

Wake27
09-06-13, 07:33
I just gave it a shot on my extra GFA. Not real pretty but that thing is pretty thin and it doesn't seem to be compromised at all. If you were careless and impatient you could probably burn a little whole in a frame, but I doubt it'd really weaken it unless you kept doing it over and over. But that's just stupid anyways.

vaglocker
09-06-13, 07:48
Seen it happen to people who don't know what they're doing. A buddy of mine ruined a Glock 34 that way.
Good luck.

I'm legitimately curious. What did he do exactly and how was the gun ruined?

MistWolf
09-06-13, 08:01
Stippling- A quick way to ruin, or has no affect at all? As usual, the answer lies somewhere in between. As soon as you start removing material, you weaken the object. As long as you don't go too deep or use too much heat and burn or crystalize the polymer, the loss of structural integrity will not be enough to make a practical difference

vaglocker
09-06-13, 08:32
Stippling- A quick way to ruin, or has no affect at all? As usual, the answer lies somewhere in between. As soon as you start removing material, you weaken the object. As long as you don't go too deep or use too much heat and burn or crystalize the polymer, the loss of structural integrity will not be enough to make a practical difference

Stippling doesn't remove material it just changes the shape of it.

Watrdawg
09-06-13, 09:13
If you take your time it can easily be done. I've only stippled 3 handguns and all of them came out great. My latest is my G19. The other 2 were a G17 and a S&W M&P 45 Midsize.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/h2odog/stipple_zps259daf26.jpg

Gutshot John
09-06-13, 12:27
I'm legitimately curious. What did he do exactly and how was the gun ruined?

He went a little overboard with the heat gun. Two things: First you could actually torque the frame in your hand so mags wouldn't drop free...than he developed a nice crack in it while firing.

Amazingly Glock didn't honor the warranty. Their response at the time was something like excessive heat alters the molecular integrity of the plastic. It's been a while so I'm paraphrasing.

Gutshot John
09-06-13, 12:33
I think this is a little misleading...

Why is it misleading if I've seen it happen?

For $100-200, I'll let someone else (a professional gunsmith) take the risk, and the financial hit if he screws it up.


Opinions vary on aesthetics, but I will say that you would have to be REALLY misguided to structurally damage a frame.... like using an acetylene torch to do your stippling, or falling asleep with your soldering iron resting on the frame... something along those lines

Wrong (perhaps misleading) in its totality. A heat gun will certainly ruin a frame...but as you say if you're patient and careful, the home gunsmith can certainly do a nice job...assuming he knows what he's doing.

You know what they say about assumptions?

tom frost
09-06-13, 12:45
Why is it misleading if I've seen it happen?

For $100-200, I'll let someone else (a professional gunsmith) take the risk, and the financial hit if he screws it up.



Wrong (perhaps misleading) in its totality. A heat gun will certainly ruin a frame...but as you say if you're patient and careful, the home gunsmith can certainly do a nice job...assuming he knows what he's doing.

You know what they say about assumptions?

I've never heard of a heat gun being used for stippling, maybe that's the disconnect in our conversation....

tom frost
09-06-13, 13:21
I've never heard of a heat gun being used for stippling, maybe that's the disconnect in our conversation....

Are you maybe talking about grip reductions or manipulation? Because my statement that you quoted earlier is definitely not wrong. Regarding stippling: you would have to be completely over the top negligent to do any damage other than aesthetic, to the frame. If you heat the mag well with a heat gun... that is it's own problem and doesn't have anything to do with stippling as I see it. Maybe frame reductions are done this way?

Gutshot John
09-06-13, 13:58
If you heat the mag well with a heat gun... that is it's own problem and doesn't have anything to do with stippling as I see it. Maybe frame reductions are done this way?

The frame reductions I've seen involve cutting actual material from the grip. I've never seen it as a heat-only process.

tom frost
09-06-13, 14:04
The frame reductions I've seen involve cutting actual material from the grip. I've never seen it as a heat-only process.
That is what I'm familiar with as well.
So where does the heat gun come into the stippling process?

Gutshot John
09-06-13, 14:55
That is what I'm familiar with as well.
So where does the heat gun come into the stippling process?

Softening the poly material.

In the right hands it's a safer way than a soldering gun as you get finer control of the temperature...assuming you know what you're doing.

Watch the fumes.

Tzook
09-06-13, 15:05
Stippled G34 working great for me.

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab245/tzmanbball/7250D519-5127-4C78-9C6A-A9C76E1C8343-5560-000003C8CC0B0CD6_zps5cc15b9c.jpg

tom frost
09-06-13, 15:37
Softening the poly material.

In the right hands it's a safer way than a soldering gun as you get finer control of the temperature...assuming you know what you're doing.

Watch the fumes.

So you get better temperature control by blowing hot air that is usually not adjustable and drastically affected by ambient conditions than with a soldering iron, which is either set at a predetermined heat level, or even available with a calibrated pot to adjust temperature?

I don't see how that is possible.

There is no way you could ever heat the part ( in this case the pistol) as consistently and controllably as you can the tool ( soldering iron).

I do however agree that it sounds like a really easy way to wreck a pistol.

Moose-Knuckle
09-06-13, 17:15
I think this is a little misleading... if you exercise a small amount of patience and pay attention, with a little foresight stippling is REALLY easy. Opinions vary on aesthetics, but I will say that you would have to be REALLY misguided to structurally damage a frame.... like using an acetylene torch to do your stippling, or falling asleep with your soldering iron resting on the frame... something along those lines.

There is no apprenticeship or school available for stippling polymer firearms... so the only difference between you and a "pro" is how much time you have into it, and how much you charge. They started the same way.

Bingo.

It’s amazing the skills one can obtain when practicing on one of the many discarded A2 grips they have laying around.

m4brian
09-06-13, 18:15
http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/8e925bcd8ffc102f9116520d56e2d1a13d80bfd.jpg

I practiced once with a Pmag. I used the smallest cone shaped tip. Yes, there seems to be dark spots in the photo on the front of the grip. To the eye they really barely there - its the lighting. On FDE the darkening of the plastic is a tad visible from the heat applied - its actually kinda cool. In black you don't notice it albeit the texture seems a bit darker in contrast.

Easiest mod I've ever done to a gun, and for me it looks fine and is better than grip tape. BTW - On a S&W grip tape is HARD to use on the backstrap. In any case, its a good deal. On a Glock you have to be judicious on HOW MUCH you do, and the pattern you use. On the M&P it is straight forward.

Texaspoff
09-06-13, 19:54
I have been working with Glocks for many years. I have never had an issue with any of the Glocks I have done as far as heat affecting the frame integrity. There are temperature parameters that I do observe to avoid any overheating issues. There are some quirky things that pop up from time to time in dealing with specific models of Glocks, mostly 36's as far as texturing, or stippling with heat. My personal Glocks have been reduced, textured and have thousands of rounds through them without a single issue or failure.

FWIW years back I had a G22 done up by Robar. Had an issue with the pistol that required replacement of the entire firearm, and Glock never blinked, and yes they knew it had a reduction done. Typically Glocks stand on warranty work is as long as the modification is not the cause of, or contributed to the failure, your GTG. Again this is from my personal experiences with Glock and their warranty department. YMMV when/if you have dealings with them.

As far as reductions go, the two most popular ways to do them is the heat and fill and grind. One uses heat, to remold the grip, the other involves filling the grip channel and grinding away material from the frame. I use the heat method and prefer it as I believe it has a few advantages over the fill and grind method.

Either one will work and provide the same end result.

Here are a few "monkeyfied" Glock that I have done.

Two G19's with my "E" mod, extended back straps flush with the magazines.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/Texaspoff/DSC_0003_zps55a1d7fb.jpg

4th gen G19 with a full work up..
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/Texaspoff/DSC_0462-2.jpg

G19 chopped to G26 dimensions.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/Texaspoff/DSC_0463.jpg

4th gen G22 chopped to G23 Dimensions, customer wanted the gun to set up like Travis Haley's chopped 17.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/Texaspoff/IMG_1128.jpg

OD G17 chopped to 19 dimensions.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/Texaspoff/DSC_0228.jpg

TXPO

Tzook
09-06-13, 21:57
That old school dillo is legit!!

tom frost
09-07-13, 05:25
...I'm still extremely curious about using a heat gun for stippling. Has anyone else ever heard of this method (as discussed earlier in this thread)?

Averageman
09-07-13, 06:00
I researched it quite a bit before I did my two Glocks and No, I haven't used or heard of anyone using a Heat Gun to stipple a Glock.
Has anyone else used or heard of using a Heat Gun to Stipple?

Gutshot John
09-07-13, 19:53
doubletap

Gutshot John
09-07-13, 19:56
So you get better temperature control by blowing hot air that is usually not adjustable and drastically affected by ambient conditions than with a soldering iron, which is either set at a predetermined heat level, or even available with a calibrated pot to adjust temperature?

That was my understanding from the gunsmith who did mine. His comment was that rather than applying direct heated metal to the frame, you apply indirect heated air, affecting only the surface which he then works. Of course he doesn't call it "stippling" he calls it "texturing."

Would you like to take it up with him? I'm happy to give you his name.

Texaspoff
09-07-13, 20:04
I researched it quite a bit before I did my two Glocks and No, I haven't used or heard of anyone using a Heat Gun to stipple a Glock.
Has anyone else used or heard of using a Heat Gun to Stipple?

The Glocks in my previous post were textured with a heat tool. The above described procedure of using a heat gun to bring the polymer frame to a pliable state and then texturing would work also, but I don't believe would be very efficient. Unless you heated the area and then applied a stencil or pattern using a large medium, Using a heat tool, like a soldering iron allows more control over the heat applied to a smaller area. This method also makes blending texturing much easier.

TXPO

tom frost
09-07-13, 21:03
That was my understanding from the gunsmith who did mine. His comment was that rather than applying direct heated metal to the frame, you apply indirect heated air, affecting only the surface which he then works. Of course he doesn't call it "stippling" he calls it "texturing."

Would you like to take it up with him? I'm happy to give you his name.

I have no real desire to take it up with your gunsmith, he can work on pistols however he sees fit.

I think that his assessment (as relayed by you) of the effect of using a heat gun vs. soldering iron is incorrect, but without a thermal camera and a pistol I'd be willing to destroy I couldn't prove it.

I feel pretty certain that by the time heated air has raised the temperature of a poly frame enough to texture the surface, the heat has also radiated around and through to the extent that you could get the condition of a moldable ( or crushable mag well ). The fact that you have mentioned seeing this happen (or hearing about it) kind of supports this theory. This could NEVER occur while using a soldering iron, you couldn't move the tip fast enough to heat a large enough surface to change the internal shape of the frame. You only actually heat the very small divot of plastic that you're displacing at any given moment.... by the time you've moved on from one spot to the next, things are already cooling...

In the interest of giving the OP good info it stands to be noted that the process your gunsmith described to you is potentially harmful to hardware, but not what people generally mean when they say "stippling". The process of modifying (stippling) a pistol with a soldering iron is safe as milk.

tom frost
09-07-13, 21:09
The Glocks in my previous post were textured with a heat tool. The above described procedure of using a heat gun to bring the polymer frame to a pliable state and then texturing would work also, but I don't believe would be very efficient. Unless you heated the area and then applied a stencil or pattern using a large medium, Using a heat tool, like a soldering iron allows more control over the heat applied to a smaller area. This method also makes blending texturing much easier.

TXPO

In your earlier post, the top pic, with the two G19s with your "e" mods, what generation are each of them, is the left s gen3 with modded finger grooves, and the left s gen2?

Either way those are stellar looking pistols. Very nice work!

Gutshot John
09-07-13, 22:07
I have no real desire to take it up with your gunsmith, he can work on pistols however he sees fit.

Ok, you and others seemed rather insistent that you had never heard of anyone using a heat gun, and of course I don't claim to be an authoritative source on proper stippling techniques so I thought you might like to take it up with someone who does it for a living.

I can only relate on what I saw someone else do properly and improperly.

I've done a good bit of homegunsmithing, lord knows I've screwed up enough things with a dremel, but it's worth stating the obvious, I try not to screw with things that are going to render my gun worthless.

Of course, I've acquired at least one Glock slide/barrel assembly that came off of a botched frame job and I'm always in the market for another...so solder away my friends. No skin off my teeth. :D


I feel pretty certain that by the time heated air has raised the temperature of a poly frame enough to texture the surface, the heat has also radiated around and through to the extent that you could get the condition of a moldable ( or crushable mag well ).

Well you don't know what you don't know.

thopkins22
09-07-13, 22:09
I think that his assessment (as relayed by you) of the effect of using a heat gun vs. soldering iron is incorrect, but without a thermal camera and a pistol I'd be willing to destroy I couldn't prove it.

I feel pretty certain that by the time heated air has raised the temperature of a poly frame enough to texture the surface, the heat has also radiated around and through to the extent that you could get the condition of a moldable ( or crushable mag well ).

I gotta agree.

Look, stippling DOES weaken the frame of polymer pistols no matter how it's done. The surface contributes to the strength and we then burn little holes in it and do things like grind off finger grooves. But you'd have to get REALLY aggressive to actually weaken it enough to ever matter. I doubt the damage is measurable shy of lab tests.

Putting a bunch of little pock marks with a soldering iron or wood burner? Never going to be an issue if you have any sense, but does have a dramatic impact on your ability to hold onto the gun. I hate shooting IDPA here in the summer because even with aggressive grip tape the gun starts swimming in your hands. Stippling is a good thing, as long as you apply common sense and practice on something cheap first.

A low wattage soldering iron or wood burner is the way to roll.


Of course, I've acquired at least one Glock slide/barrel assembly that came off of a botched frame job
Frame job how? Grip reductions? Yeah I have no doubt that you could ruin a Glock frame with a quickness when you start down that path.

Gutshot John
09-07-13, 22:16
Frame job how? Grip reductions? Yeah I have no doubt that you could ruin a Glock frame with a quickness when you start down that path.

Nope not a reduction.

Texaspoff
09-08-13, 04:33
In your earlier post, the top pic, with the two G19s with your "e" mods, what generation are each of them, is the left s gen3 with modded finger grooves, and the left s gen2?

Either way those are stellar looking pistols. Very nice work!

Both of them are 3rd gen 19's. One is my duty weapon, the other is a customer/friends 19 . I have not modified a 4th gen with the extension yet. As soon as testing is completed on these two examples, I will do up a 4th gen. I don't forsee any issues with the 4th gen either, but being a slightly different design on the backstrap, I need to be 100% before I offer it to customers.

TXPO

tom frost
09-08-13, 09:09
Ok, you and others seemed rather insistent that you had never heard of anyone using a heat gun, and of course I don't claim to be an authoritative source on proper stippling techniques so I thought you might like to take it up with someone who does it for a living.

I wasn't trying to call you out. I am also not an authorative source on proper stippling techniques, but I do know what I do know.


Doing something for a living is not necessarily a badge of authority, I work in the skilled trades and have had occasion to see several examples of people who did something for a living that held horribly wrong ideals about how things should be done, or simply didn't care whether something was done correctly or not. I have seen even more still who are very happy to B.S. a customer about methods and results either way.



Of course, I've acquired at least one Glock slide/barrel assembly that came off of a botched frame job and I'm always in the market for another... :D



I would keep in close contact with your gunsmith for such opportunities regarding polymer pistols. ;)



Well you don't know what you don't know.

Well, that is certainly true. In the matter of heating plastic however, I do know that what I said is correct. Heating the surface to "workable temperatures" will certainly heat the plastic below the surface and around the immediate work area to potentially harm the pistol. I was trying to be polite and reasonable by not being overbearing, but maybe that was not the best way to make the point.

my responses in bold above

tom frost
09-08-13, 09:15
Thank you for the info Cold Bore, I really like the looks of the one on the right with no finger grooves!

Surf
09-08-13, 13:00
I do a lot of Glocks. Nothing like what is done by Texaspoff, but I do enough on a regular basis that I believe I have a good understanding of the various techniques and have used pretty much all of the techniques that I am aware of. Here are some of my thoughts.

What I would consider "normal" stipple jobs while they may affect some of the polymer structure, I have yet to see a frame actually fail because of a "normal" stipple job. Of course there are those who can manage to find ways of screwing things up pretty bad but "normal" stipple job using a heat tool like a wood burner or similar really is simple to accomplish from a practical standpoint. Now the pattern, texture or overall design is where the skill or talent of the person doing the work comes into play but this is usually cosmetic or aesthetics and not related to integrity of the material. So I have seen some gawd aweful looking stipple jobs, but they tend to work.

Of course when we start removing material, like undercutting or removal of finger groves or reshaping of the frame in various area's this is where problems can more easily arise than a simple stipple job. Again as with stippling not only does the artistic talent come into play, but the skill and experience in working with removal, or addition of material is more critical. Not saying someone new to it can't be successful as everyone who does it on a regular basis was new at one time, however this is definitely where someone new to this can screw up.

I have attempted to use the method of heating an area on various polymer pieces and applying a "texture" with a home made "stamp" or other tools. I also use a heat reduction method and I am very experienced in applying heat. IME the heat type of method for applying a texture on a Glock would be the least desirable given the other highly effective methods available. Heating an area to the point of adding texture would definitely have a much greater chance of affect the materials structure more so than using a pin point tool applying heat only to the area being stippled. When using a heat reduction method the temps are kept low enough just to shape the material with a good amount of pressure on the area, but would not be enough heat to add texture. IME to apply texture even with a pointed object one pin at a time, you would need to apply quite a bit of heat to the overall area to get it pliable enough. Not a good idea IMO.

I do a flared magwell with a heat and shape method. I know of others who have attempted it after seeing my work. They applied too much heat, too much pressure, too much torque on the grip and created magazine related issues. The bottom line, when heating a large area you have more chance of changing the polymer structure and really screwing things up. IMO, you are much safer with controlled heat in a pin point area when applying texture. More complicated things such as removing material, adding material, or heat shaping may be best left to those with experience. However there are some true genius gunsmiths out there who may accomplish things that most people cannot hope to replicate on their own.

Gutshot John
09-08-13, 14:36
I have seen everything I've described and I'm pretty confident in my assessment. It makes no difference to me whether you believe me or not, but I do think people need to hear countervailing opinions if they are going to be informed. I don't give a rip what they actually do, so long as they are informed of the risks.

The gunsmith in question is listed as one of the top 100 gunsmiths in the country by American Handgunner...he has forgotten more than you and I will ever know, so you'll forgive me if I'm underwhelmed by your response.

From a chemistry perspective, area of heat would be less of an issue than absolute temperature. Larger area with less heat will do less damage than smaller area with more heat which would potentially create a weak spot. Likewise surface area would disapate that temperature, like a heat sink.

jpmuscle
09-08-13, 14:47
Surf,

I will still pay you to flare the magwell on my glock(s). Just a reminder lol :D


/ end of thread derailment.

ChadF
09-08-13, 14:50
Durability will depend on depth and density of stippling. From a materials standpoint, the polymer has no memory, so it will a question of weakened one hit breakage. With this said, I think mst stippling jobs are just fine.

tom frost
09-08-13, 15:25
I have seen everything I've described and I'm pretty confident in my assessment. It makes no difference to me whether you believe me or not, but I do think people need to hear countervailing opinions if they are going to be informed. I don't give a rip what they actually do, so long as they are informed of the risks.

Fair enough, I agree 100%




The gunsmith in question is listed as one of the top 100 gunsmiths in the country by American Handgunner...he has forgotten more than you and I will ever know

Perhaps this is true, perhaps not. I'm not really into hero worship, or sycophantic behavior, so forgive me as well for being underwhelmed.


, so you'll forgive me if I'm underwhelmed by your response.

You can be as underwhelmed as you like. I'm not trying to impress you, just illustrate a point, and have a conversation. I am not trying to talk down your gunsmith, but by the same token, no credentials, or magazine endorsements turn wrong into right, that was what I was trying to say.




From a chemistry perspective, area of heat would be less of an issue than absolute temperature. Larger area with less heat will do less damage than smaller area with more heat which would potentially create a weak spot. Likewise surface area would disapate that temperature, like a heat sink.



I completely disagree, the surface area cannot simultaneously absorb the heat in order to be manipulated and dissipate heat to prevent overheating.

...anyhow, we have certainly gone over it, and offered the OP a couple of different points to consider. Thanks for the conversation, I think I'll stop here.

On a side note, judging from a thread in the tactical gear section, we do share some similar taste in knives (Bark River).

Thanks for the engaging conversation.
Cheers

MistWolf
09-08-13, 15:52
Stippling doesn't remove material it just changes the shape of it.

Material is lost through stringing and sticking to the tool. Some is also lost because, while it's still part of the whole, it's no longer able to add to the structual strength of the part

Wake27
09-08-13, 16:20
Do most of you guys that stipple with a soldering iron have to sand it down once done? I didn't think I would have to after watching a video on YouTube but mine came out much more rough. Maybe I'm going to deep ;)?

Averageman
09-08-13, 16:53
Do most of you guys that stipple with a soldering iron have to sand it down once done? I didn't think I would have to after watching a video on YouTube but mine came out much more rough. Maybe I'm going to deep ;)?

Mine was a bit uncomfortable at first but with use the sharp edges wear down and it becomes more comfortable with use.

tom frost
09-08-13, 16:54
Do most of you guys that stipple with a soldering iron have to sand it down once done? I didn't think I would have to after watching a video on YouTube but mine came out much more rough. Maybe I'm going to deep ;)?

In my experience using a very fine, pointed tip seems to turn out quite aggressive results, even at reasonable depths. Using amore rounded tip can mellow that out a bit.

Wake27
09-08-13, 17:44
In my experience using a very fine, pointed tip seems to turn out quite aggressive results, even at reasonable depths. Using amore rounded tip can mellow that out a bit.

Maybe that's what it is, the only tip mine came with is very fine. Thanks.

tom frost
09-08-13, 17:46
Maybe that's what it is, the only tip mine came with is very fine. Thanks.

Your welcome. Good luck.

uwe1
09-08-13, 21:41
Remember that once you start removing material that you can change the way the gun naturally points in your hands.

Also, stippling creates indentation, but it also causes elevations when the indented material rises at the edges of each depression. It is possible to very slightly increase the circumference of the grip you are working on.

Gutshot John
09-09-13, 14:11
Perhaps this is true, perhaps not. I'm not really into hero worship, or sycophantic behavior, so forgive me as well for being underwhelmed.

Talk about a pyromaniac in a field of straw men.

Well since you decided to get personal...

He is a nationally known gunsmith with a reputation as a world class pistol competitor.

You're just another 'idiot' on the interwebz.

Forgive me if I don't give your statements the same credibility. Of course that explains why you're afraid to talk to him, it might shatter that fragile ego and all that emotional investment when you discover you're wrong. Your complete inability to acknowledge that you might not know something only further serves to discredit you.

PS. I don't think "sycophant" means what you think it means.

tom frost
09-09-13, 16:33
Talk about a pyromaniac in a field of straw men.

I don't know what that means.



Well since you decided to get personal....

It's not my intention to "get personal" at all.


He is a nationally known gunsmith with a reputation as a world class pistol competitor.

You're just another 'idiot' on the interwebz.

You and I don't know each other at all. Is everyone who is not a celebrity of note "just another idiot"? I've cleary stated my thoughts on this issue. Anyone can read them and form their own opinion.


Forgive me if I don't give your statements the same credibility. Of course that explains why you're afraid to talk to him, it might shatter that fragile ego and all that emotional investment when you discover you're wrong. Your complete inability to acknowledge that you might not know something only further serves to discredit you..


Again, you and I don't even know each other. The things I have said have been directly related to your posts in this thread, and I never personally insulted you.


There are buckets full of things I don't know, I never said there weren't.

At no point in any discussion, ever, is "why don't you call (insert name here)' helpful, if you don't have something to contribute... feel free to say so, or go call him yourself and come back and school all of us internet idiots. I get that you are citing his information as your contribution, but it makes no real difference to me, as I feel the same way about the methodology of stippling a pistol, whether you say it, or anyone else is saying it. Maybe heating a pistol with a heat gun is the absolute best way to stipple a pistol ever.


Your ragged insistence that this gunsmith has anything to do with this conversation is tiring. Consequently that persistence combined with your elevation of his status to having likely "forgotten more than you or I will ever know' prompted my use of the word 'sycophant'. ... and yes, I know exactly what it means.


PS. I don't think "sycophant" means what you think it means.

This has gotten ridiculous.

Gutshot John
09-09-13, 17:09
This has gotten ridiculous.

On that we agree.

Don't call me a sycophant and than tell me you don't want to get personal. It's completely passive-aggressive, disingenuous, not to mention chickensh!^.

You're clearly not interested in a good faith discussion and so welcome to my ignore list.

tom frost
09-09-13, 18:31
On that we agree.

Don't call me a sycophant and than tell me you don't want to get personal. It's completely passive-aggressive, disingenuous, not to mention chickensh!^.

You're clearly not interested in a good faith discussion and so welcome to my ignore list.

Your personal attacks are a pathetic, and your reading comprehension could use work. All I said was that I was not interested in hero worship or sycophantic behavior, then later, identified the specific behavior that prompted my use of the word . If you identify with those qualities, that's on you.


As an example of discussion: I clearly explained why I thought your idea of material being heated to be molded and acting as a heat sink simultaneously was mistaken, you never addressed that, or any other point i made... except that I didn't care about talking to your gunsmith.

..and then you call me chiickensh**t? It's easy to see who is emotionally involved in this exchange.

Your "good faith discussion" basically boiled down to you telling me to call a gunsmith, and that I don't know what I don't know. If that's what your looking for, then no, I'm not interested.

Good day.

lowbar
09-09-13, 19:41
The stippling may hurt any resale value, IF you plan on selling any of the firearms in the future.

tom frost
09-10-13, 05:13
I should have let that whole conversation drop much much earlier. For what it's worth I apologize for my half of the bickering.

None of this is really that important.

jpmuscle
09-10-13, 05:38
Are you guys really arguing over stippling? .... REALLY?

jesuvuah
09-10-13, 06:38
All I can say is that I have stippled 2 of my glocks and it is a huge improvement. I removed the finger graves, undercut the trigger guard slightly, and stippled the frame. Did lots of research before hand. Practiced on an a2 grip and on pmags. Easiest mod I have ever done with the most return.

Could an incompetent person destroy a gun....sure. But then again in my experience, incompetent people tend to never even try to do something for themselves.

Gutshot John
09-10-13, 08:27
But then again in my experience, incompetent people tend to never even try to do something for themselves.

By definition, this would mean they're not incompetent.

Incompetent means you're not capable of doing the job you're doing.

See the Peter Principle.

jesuvuah
09-10-13, 09:26
By definition, this would mean they're not incompetent.

Incompetent means you're not capable of doing the job you're doing.

See the Peter Principle.

Ok Mr. dictionary...but how do you know until you try. That is why your practice first, and once you have practiced you will find how easy it really is.

Gutshot John
09-10-13, 10:12
Ok Mr. dictionary...but how do you know until you try. That is why your practice first, and once you have practiced you will find how easy it really is.

Your opinion means precisely f@*kall to me.

jesuvuah
09-10-13, 10:21
Your opinion means precisely f@*kall to me.

Fine by me. My opinion is not for you, but for the OP. My advice to the OP would be to go for it. One of the better upgrades I ever did and it cost me nothing.

You seem to be getting pretty worked up over other peoples opinions but don't seem to be holding back on yours at all.

But I think I will go back to doing more meaningful things.

SWATcop556
09-10-13, 11:41
Ok that is ENOUGH. If your next response in this thread isn't related to stippling, texturing, or firearms modifications you're taking a vacation. I can't believe we have a whole page of nonsense and back and forth in a thread like this. This IS NOT GD. Keep it technical or hit the bricks. Only warning.

(This is not directed at one specific poster but to several who have completely jump off the deep end)

William B.
09-10-13, 12:04
Also, stippling creates indentation, but it also causes elevations when the indented material rises at the edges of each depression. It is possible to very slightly increase the circumference of the grip you are working on.

Great point. I thought I noticed a slight circumference difference recently when I went to carrying my non-stippled G19 for a little while. The difference on mine, though, was so slight that it didn't outweigh the benefits of the stippling. YMMV.

Moose-Knuckle
09-10-13, 16:47
Ok that is ENOUGH. If your next response in this thread isn't related to stippling, texturing, or firearms modifications you're taking a vacation. I can't believe we have a whole page of nonsense and back and forth in a thread like this. This IS NOT GD. Keep it technical or hit the bricks. Only warning.

(This is not directed at one specific poster but to several who have completely jump off the deep end)

THANK YOU!

A usual suspect in particular at work here . . .





BTT, none of my GLOCKs that have been stippled have KB'ed. Keep shoot'n . . .