Is it time?

[Nathan_Bell]

I know from most of the folk I knopw who have served in the military in the past twenty years, the idea of reinstating the draft is anathema, but is it time to revisit the idea? American thinker has a thoughtprovoking article on it.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5794

ETA fix a spelling error

[Bulldog1967]

I wouldn't want someone in the trenches with me who didn't want to be there.

Not gonna happen.

[Boom]

No I don't think so. Maybe if the war was to increase in size but not over the current conditions or state of the war.

[Submariner]

Nope. Freedom isn't free; however, freedom isn't slavery, either. (Unless it is 1984.) The Supreme Court declared that the draft did not violate the Thirteenth Amendment prohibition against slavery and involuntary servitude. Jimmy Carter effectively negated that decision by pardoning those who refused the draft during Vietnam.


I wouldn't want someone in the trenches with me who didn't want to be there.

Excellent point.

[Voodoochild]

If they did reinstae the draft I would not look at it as a bad thing. I only wish I had joined the Corps when I graduated High School. If they only invented time machines...

[Business_Casual]

I think the fact that the sponsors of draft legislation since the start of the GWOT have all been raging liberals tells one exactly what they need to know about the idea.

Here are some interesting facts from "Americas Victories" by Larry Schweikart:

* Only one third of Vietnam vets had to be drafted
* Volunteers accounted for 77% of combat deaths
* Just 101 eighteen year-old draftees died in combat (less than 1%)
* Some 97% of the eighteen year-olds killed had volunteered
* Focusing on the 10,000 USA draft dodgers ignores the 30,000 Canadians who volunteered for and join the US Armed Forces during the war
* The Army's desertion rate was actually 55% higher in WWII than Vietnam

Very different picture from the one projected by TV and movies, huh? Anyway, a lot of food for thought when looking at today's situation.

M_P

[Nathan_Bell]

No I don't think so. Maybe if the war was to increase in size but not over the current conditions or state of the war.


Ok, we are in a war whose outcome will be either the destruction of the western world or the destruction of approximately 250,000,000 Muslims worldwide. And the war needs to increase in size for the draft to be palatable?

[Kyrinn]

[misunderstood your presentation math. deleted my comment.]

[baffle Stack]

Well, before I tell you about what I think about a draft let me tell you a little about myself because I think it makes a difference when it comes to my opinion.

My name is Anthony and I am 21 years old. Being 21 I know that I am quite ignorant about the world and I have taken a lot of things for granted, but one thing I have never taken for granted is living in America were I have the RIGHT to live life however I see fit. I for one would take pride in fighting if I was called up to destroy Radical Islam.

The way I see it, Radical Islam is the modern day Nazi Party, by which I mean neither had the insight to see the good in anothers’ ideas, beliefs, customs, and technologies. The Nazis hated the Jews just as Radical Islam despises American Capitalism (or whatever it is they hate). They are set in their beliefs and they are not going to back down without serious physical force being a factor.

Then I think of all the great insights in technologies etc. that these parties have been a factor in. The very 1st that come to mind is Albert Einstein. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t this man a Jew? And I don’t know a lot about the Muslim people but I know that if I was dying or a loved one was I wouldn’t deny service to them if the Dr. was Muslim. In fact I would be nothing but grateful… But I am also not blind. I can see that Radical Islam is a cancer to Earth just as the Nazis were.

So bottom line is that I am cozy here in The States just loving life, but I would not dodge the draft if one came along, and in fact I would take pride in ridding the world of Radical Islam. Take it for what it is worth. I don’t pre-judge much but like I said before, I am not blind and I can see that this BS is coming from the Mid-East and I ****ing tired of it. I am all ears if someone has a better idea besides (more) force.

[Cyclic240B]

I wouldn't want someone in the trenches with me who didn't want to be there.

Not gonna happen.


Agreed, could not have said it any better.

[HAMMERDROP]

it is time for the Draft to be reinstated there are too many momma's boys still
swinging from the nipple at an age when they should be developing into men.
Those young men should not be drafted because we have troops in faraway
places but because many, many teenagers have no discipline and no hope.
Disenfranchised my ass they have been taught to be lazy and shiftless and
cowardice by parent(s) who know nothing else because those parents have
learned to take for granted what Hitler would have denied them had he been able to.
So therefore those parents who feel this is not a necessary war are ignorantly denying
the only chance to teach their male children to be men on their own two feet in their
lifetime, this society is not capable of doing that. I work with a guy (a cowardice parent)
and we were talking about this the other day and he said he would become a
Canadien citizen if the draft happened. He said he would take his son to Canada so he
would be forced into the military. I find this train of thought to be treasonous to the American way.
I mentioned a while back that if the lines outside the recruiting depots looked like the lines
for an American Idol audition the enemy would crawl under a rock and cry.
My $8.00 worth its just my opinion but think about it next time your watching the news
and they talk about senseless killings and who is committing it ... those same class cutters
and dope smokers in the 70's I could have related to except my name was in the Draft-lottery
and I didn't buy a Glock with my lunch money.

[persona non grata]

Ok, we are in a war whose outcome will be either the destruction of the western world or the destruction of approximately 250,000,000 Muslims worldwide. And the war needs to increase in size for the draft to be palatable?

+1. We need to be proactive, not reactive.

Chaina has a 20-year plan. Most Americans are hard pressed to plan 20 days ahead.

[baffle Stack]

it is time for the Draft to be reinstated there are too many momma's boys still
swinging from the nipple at an age when they should be developing into men.
Those young men should not be drafted because we have troops in faraway
places but because many, many teenagers have no discipline and no hope.
Disenfranchised my ass they have been taught to be lazy and shiftless and
cowardice by parent(s) who know nothing else because those parents have
learned to take for granted what Hitler would have denied them had he been able to.
So therefore those parents who feel this is not a necessary war are ignorantly denying
the only chance to teach their male children to be men on their own two feet in their
lifetime, this society is not capable of doing that. I work with a guy (a cowardice parent)
and we were talking about this the other day and he said he would become a
Canadien citizen if the draft happened. He said he would take his son to Canada so he
would be forced into the military. I find this train of thought to be treasonous to the American way.
I mentioned a while back that if the lines outside the recruiting depots looked like the lines
for an American Idol audition the enemy would crawl under a rock and cry.
My $8.00 worth its just my opinion but think about it next time your watching the news
and they talk about senseless killings and who is committing it ... those same class cutters
and dope smokers in the 70's I could have related to except my name was in the Draft-lottery
and I didn't buy a Glock with my lunch money.

Agreed. I am ashamed by the reactions I get from my peers when I mention my views of the world. It seems almost all my peers take their freedoms for granted and they have no desire to fight for it. It's sad really. They look at me like I'm the radical one when I mention that I feel a draft could be an answer. Not only that but then they start talking about their reactions to a potential draft, and guess what, I am surrounded by a bunch of dodgers. :mad:

I grew up with a parent like you describe (the kind that think this war is about oil or Bush finishing what his father started), so I have had plenty of this ungrateful philosophy shoved down my throat. I see how my peers can get their opinions, what I can’t see is why they can’t make up their own minds. Can they not see that Radical Islam is a cancer of the Earth? Or maybe they’re scared of what could be asked of them if they came to that realization. The realization that Radical Islam isn’t going away without force.

How many ships are going to be attacked? How many Embassies are going to be bombed? How many WTCs are going to come down before we see a need for more military force?

[baffle Stack]

I think the fact that the sponsors of draft legislation since the start of the GWOT have all been raging liberals tells one exactly what they need to know about the idea.

Here are some interesting facts from "Americas Victories" by Larry Schweikart:

* Only one third of Vietnam vets had to be drafted
* Volunteers accounted for 77% of combat deaths
* Just 101 eighteen year-old draftees died in combat (less than 1%)
* Some 97% of the eighteen year-olds killed had volunteered
* Focusing on the 10,000 USA draft dodgers ignores the 30,000 Canadians who volunteered for and join the US Armed Forces during the war
* The Army's desertion rate was actually 55% higher in WWII than Vietnam

Very different picture from the one projected by TV and movies, huh? Anyway, a lot of food for thought when looking at today's situation.

M_P

They are playing on peoples' fears. A sad, yet very effective way of getting votes.

[HAMMERDROP]

I for one am proud to share boardspace with a young man such as yourself. You present the views of an older more experienced individual and reardless of what your peers think in the end (pray God we can avoid it) they will be looking back at themselves in the mirror wishing they had half the backbone you do. Fighting for freedoms or not is not a matter of being a pussy or not. Todays youth is acting in a manner which I interpret as simply a matter of not protecting what is theirs because they do not know it is theirs. So much emphasis is placed by parents on ownership of tangible items (ie cars bikes ipods clothes etc) and who bought it or who it belongs to that if you were able to package and shrink wrap freedoms many young people today would act like an Iraqi dog if you got near it. Again I am proud to hear your thoughts it is both refreshing and encouraging- be strong my young brother do what is in your heart - which sounds like courage to me. Thank you
Michael

[Submariner]

it is time for the Draft to be reinstated there are too many momma's boys still swinging from the nipple at an age when they should be developing into men.
...except my name was in the Draft-lottery

Thank you for your service. What year were you drafted?

Anthony-Parents don't know anything, do they? You are 21 and have these convictions that there ought be a draft. What are you waiting for? Lead by example, enlist!

ETA: My draft number was 362 in 1972 and I did.;)

[HAMMERDROP]

I think its great that a 21 year old has his own viewpoints ? Not peer pressure opinions or that he's a member of the herd being railroaded by the media?
I would only qualify your inquiry by stating that you and I are probably just a few years apart in age so take that for what its worth. Anthony is only beating his chest for the Red White and Blue which he has a right to do besides it reminded me of my mother in law verbally posturing over Christmas dinner with a question that she will never get an answer to because it is none of her business! And she gets small case type...always.

[Submariner]

A draft is all about imposing service on someone else. And somehow, some folks never seem to serve. Take VP Dick Cheney, for instance: five draft deferments because he had more important things to do. Or former President Clinton who somehow managed to skate and receive a pardon. They beat their chests over the Red, White and Blue, too, because, as you say, it is their right. A right paid for by someone else's blood.


And she gets small case type...always.

Like me?;)

[HAMMERDROP]

No your better looking I'm sure LOL
I meant no disrespect but perhaps we need many young men like Anthony who are still within the civilian population - after Viet Nam look at the way servicemen were treated by the civvys ... I can only think that if more freedom minded people remain stateside for whatever reason the subversive element will not take hold as tightly.
And our very exsistance is based on the blood of a hero, my Father a WWII vet was brought up during the depression and all I heard growing up was how he didn't have squat - a historical fact but that was not my generations concern but I/we heard about it why should we carry that guilt ? Guilt is Guilt and in todays society you either are or are made to feel that way for one reason or another.
I realize I type at home this morning in relative safety provided by the hard men who have made and make that possible. And I Thank them all and I Thank You Submariner for your service to our country but my observation of the draft issue was just that my .2 cents not a challenge.
Anthony should be lauded for his patriotism not everybody was born to be a soldier and maybe a soldier is in us all at some time it just takes that time to make that soldier emerge. But at least we are all Patriots in the USA ...
Michael

[atrum]

if it became necessary i would have no problem going to war to destroy radical islamic terrorists. but as it stands now i hear too much crap about being PC.
if they said "heres your shit now go burn that town to the ground" i would already be over there.

[baffle Stack]

if it became necessary i would have no problem going to war to destroy radical islamic terrorists. but as it stands now i hear too much crap about being PC.
if they said "heres your shit now go burn that town to the ground" i would already be over there.

Well blind faith doesn't do much good, but I think I know what you mean.

War is a frightening thing and anyone with half a brain would want to avoid it. Myself, I do not enlist because I, like many, am frightened of the physical harm that goes along with it etc. However, American freedoms are worth the risk and I will be there fast when needed. I hope it doesn't come to that but I am comfortable with the fact that it may.

I see it as a duty to every American to be ready to fight physically for their way of life because there is always some group who is going to try to take your freedoms away from you. These groups historically are too retarded to effectively use diplomacy. Does a country (USA) have another viable choice besides force when diplomacy doesn’t work? Terrorists are savages. Their intelligence is low, so I ask you this... What would a savage better understand, force or diplomacy? I think the 1st.

p.s. Thanks for the kind works Hammer. They’re appreciated.

[Kravin Moorehead]

I am in the military now, after spending eight months in Iraq, I would not want anyone watching my back who does not want to be there. The things we went through while there, I would not wish on any one, but I'll be damned if I am going to bust into a Hadji's mudhut with a man whos focus and desire is not on par with everyone else on the team. There are no front lines in Iraq, rounds come from every direction at anytime, you have to know you can depend on the men around you or you WILL DIE! The draft would raise the numbers over there, but would also raise the numbers KIA. But this is just the opinion of a person whos seen the horrors of war.

[RockRiver_5.56]

I'm 33, working on 34. I'd give ANYTHING for another chance at the military but I've got some old legal "black marks" that don't permit an easy re-entry into the ARMY but... if the draft ever started up again, I'd be the first in line, my 20" RockRiver AR slung over my shoulder, asking where to sign. The Govmt should try to lift the age limit first, to see who wants to come back on their own. I know several guys, right now, that could make it through boot again and would gladly do it. Myself included.

Lets hope the draft is never needed again because that means were in for hard times. If the military big-wigs could just offer the kids something worth risking their lives for, because the whole "freedom and democracy" thing hasn't really gotten the front page coverage that it needs lately, for the kids to read and understand. Its all taken for granted by them and everyones too comfortable with their lives to open thier eye's and ears to the truth of the situation around us.

Enough ranting... I probably didnt make a lick of sense.. it's 3:44 am here. Jeez.

[HAMMERDROP]

or here in the United States of America, I think when shit hits the fan , I feel the US citizens will be the most fearsome and ruthless homeland defenders the world has ever seen. Those who wish us harm would learn how pissed off US citizens deal with threats to their families their homes and their way of life even those without the advantage of military training would step up and defend our homeland like no other citizens in any other country at any other time in history and those who commit acts of terrorism on US soil would be dealt with like rabid dogs, no mercy.
And I personally would want Al-Jezeerah and Rueters journalists there to shock the Islamic world back to the dark ages with the unedited footage they capture. Because those visuals may be the only way to make terrorists, or those who wish me and you harm, realize that ...
YOU DO NOT **** WITH AMERICANS ANYMORE ...EVER AGAIN .

[Submariner]

I'm 33, working on 34. I'd give ANYTHING for another chance at the military but I've got some old legal "black marks" that don't permit an easy re-entry into the ARMY but... if the draft ever started up again, I'd be the first in line, my 20" RockRiver AR slung over my shoulder, asking where to sign. .

The marks can't be too black; you [legally] possess a 20" RR Ar. Recruiters can get waivers for all sorts of things and was these things white as snow...