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LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-08-13, 18:03
I carry a G17 w/X300 as my duty pistol. It has the Apex Extractor because I had problems with it extracting reliably at first. Over maybe 1000 rounds (800 after the extractor change) I have witnessed it stovepipe twice in the hands of other shooters, but never my own (just don't trust it as much as I would like to). I also have medium sized hands, and find the block grip to be bothersome, thus leading me to consider having an expensive grip reduction done. Beyond all of that, the esteemed Colorado leaders have deemed that NO ONE (including LEO's) can buy magazines over 15 rounds, which means I can't find mags anywhere anymore (and you ****ers won't send them to me either, thanks :rolleyes:). With all that said, I shoot Glocks fairly well, have trained with them for quite some time, and have plenty of magazines, duty gear, and holsters for them.

In January I will have the opportunity to switch duty firearms to one of my choice. My agency issues the M&P 9MM, but I have never been enthused with it, especially since you can't find magazines for them anywhere. They also allow Glock, Springfield XD/M, Colt, Ruger, and HK. Not being happy with my Glocks lately, and seeing nothing but utter reliability out of the HK line, Ive started to set my sights on the HK P30 9MM.

I went down to the LGS where that had a P30L V3 and P30S V3, each for $999. Holding the pistol was almost euphoric as I had never gripped a firearm that fit me as well as P30 did. It pointed naturally as well, something that I never felt like my Glocks did as well as my old P220. AND THEN I TRIED THE TRIGGER OUT...and was disappointed to say the least. The DA pull was pretty bad, smooth, but just really long and heavy. The SA pull after the reset was crisp on the break but had quite a bit of pre travel. I did like the ability to carry cocked and locked with the safety on, however the LGS employee in his infinite wisdom said it was ill advised and dangerous to do so (how true his statement was I do not know, but I can't see any other reason to have a safety on a DA/SA pistol with a decocker). I wish they had a V1 in stock so I could try out the "light" LEM, but alas they did not, and no range stocks them meaning if do make a purchase I will have never actually shot one more than a few dry fires.

So, long story short:

am I gaining more reliability out of the P30 than I am the Glock?
are there viable Level III duty holster options for the P30/S/L?
is the trigger that bad or do I just need time behind it?
Will the P30S fit in a standard P30 holster?
Is the V1 similar to a "glock" trigger, or is the V3 the better option?
Is carrying it cocked and locked a bad idea or a valid way to carry?

Would you make this trade if money were not an option?

Kyohte
09-08-13, 18:15
am I gaining more reliability out of the P30 than I am the Glock?
are there viable Level III duty holster options for the P30/S/L?
is the trigger that bad or do I just need time behind it?
Will the P30S fit in a standard P30 holster?
Is the V1 similar to a "glock" trigger, or is the V3 the better option?
Is carrying it cocked and locked a bad idea or a valid way to carry?

Would you make this trade if money were not an option?

My P30s (plural, no S model) have been completely reliable. Of course, my Glock Gen 3 19 made in May 13 has been equally reliable (though through a less than half the number of rounds so far).

See Safariland, I think they have a level III.

The trigger isn't bad, but if you're not used to a traditional double action or LEM then it will take getting used to.

Depends. The P30S safety lever will interfere with holsters that have a sweat guard or similar.

I have V1 and V2 LEM triggers and a V3. I would like something between the two (V4) but haven't set one up yet. Between V1 and V3, I find V1 the better option.

Carrying the P30S cocked and locked is fine.

As for the last part, I am not an LEO, so consider that with everything I've said.

DanjojoUSMC
09-08-13, 18:20
You will probably be best with a V1 if all you have been shooting the past few years is Glock. If you do a google search for "nyeti LEM street trigger" you can find a pretty good write up on it's merits. I like them right after traditional DA/SA as favorites.

I doubt I would do well in a real world situation with an injured strong hand trying to instinctively activate the p30's thumb safety and get off rounds. LEM lighter set ups are basically SA anyways, you just have the long trigger return spring take-up initially and ability to holster/administrative handle with hammer down and thumb on hammer.

walkin' trails
09-08-13, 18:58
I had good experiences with Glock and the M&Ps, but I am also a proponent of an officer carrying a pistol they are comfortable and confident with. If the P30 fits you, then that's a good start. As you are used to the Glock-trigger, the LEM might be your best bet, however, the traditional DA/SA is not that hard to getused to if you're going to train. I went from Glocks to a SIG P228 years ago and had no trouble. I couldn't shoot the 228 as well, but it was the shape of the grip and the way it fit my hand rather than the action. Since you are going to train with this pistol, including a dry fire regiment, you can get used to it if that's what you're planning to live with. Find out of H&K has any LE sales program and you may not have to pay all that money. As far as being more reliable; again you have to have confidence with your pistol. If a P30 is more reliable for you than anything else you've used, then it's worth it. I still haven't experiences the Glock problems you described, and someone else having a stove pipe with my pistol is not a concern as long as it doesn't happen to me. Anyway, hope it works out for you.

mrvip27
09-08-13, 19:05
Good read here. Straight from a guy with experience as an LEO.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/8549

arcticlightfighter
09-08-13, 19:27
I am heavily considering a 9mm P30 Light LEM for my new duty pistol.

I have not fired one yet however, handling the it and dry firing I have been very impressed. Subjective only at this point, but with the reviews written by Nyeti and TLG, I am convinced that with the appropriate amount of transition training, I would be happy with it.

DanjojoUSMC
09-08-13, 19:45
Walkin' trails, personally I would have issues with someone else shooting my pistol and having it not function right. Rushed grip or injured grip situation you have no promises of a pistol functioning that doesn't tolerate a poor grip noobie. This is well known, seldom admitted characteristic for Glocks but they sell enough that most don't seem to mind. Always wonder why it's not part of LE T&E protocals.

Psalms144.1
09-08-13, 21:01
LSHD - I had a similar conundrum back in early 2012, after my fifth G19 crapped the bed straight out of the box. I picked up a P30 with the "heavy" (then standard) LEM, in 9mm, as a replacement. Shortly thereafter, I fell into a lightly used P2000 9mm LEM. I changed the FPBS on both to get the "TLG" version of the LEM - lighter pull weight, but stronger reset. Unfortunately, to date, I have not had the opportunity to test the "Light" LEM - though I'm tempted. Around the same time, my old team started transitioning from issued G19s to issued HK 45CTs, with the DA/SA/Decock only trigger (can't keep the version numbers straight, sorry about that!) These are my observations:

1. The P30's ergonomics are exceptional - best of any pistol I've ever owned or held, and the ability to mix & match grip elements really lets you customize your grip exactly how you like it.

2. The P30 is not terribly size efficient - the grip is G17 length, but holds 2 fewer rounds, and the barrel/sight radius are shortish. As an open-carry "duty" pistol, I would DEFINITELY opt for the P30L, which can be found at any number of decent LE dealers (and commercial dealers) for less than the price you listed. You don't NEED the extra barrel and sight radius, but there's no reason not to have them, given the longish grip length.

3. The P30's slide release levers are ridiculously long, so you WILL have to adjust your grip to avoid accidentally activating them, leading to a slide-forward-on-empty-chamber scenario. You can replace them with the slide release levers on the P30S, which are shorter, but they're still "in the way," IMHO.

4. The LEM trigger on the P30 is the "worst" execution of the LEM, IMHO. The take up is smooth, light, and long (though not excessively so), but then it hits a SIGNIFICANT "wall." This wall causes a lot of new LEM shooters, including myself, to "stage" the trigger - pulling quickly through the takeup to the "wall" and then "snatching" when the sight picture is perfect - leading to sub-optimal results. Please note, I have NOT, tried the "light" LEM, so this might be a whole different ball of wax. The reset on the LEM is long-ish - if you're a long time Glock shooter, you may be disappointed in how long - but you can definitely train through it. I did, and my split times with the standard LEM are, for all intents and purposes, indistinguishable now with what I could do with the Glock that I carried for over seven years.

5. The DA/SA on the HK45CT was atrocious - the DA pull on mine had to be AT LEAST 14 pounds, and gritty. The reset was reasonable, with minimal pre-travel before the SA trigger broke, which it did relatively cleanly. Because these were issued weapons, we were not allowed to alter them, or I would have swapped that decock-only lever to a safety only or safety-decock; and carried the pistol cocked & locked.

6. Reliability - all of the HKs I've handled have been dead-nuts reliable; boringly, predictably reliable - despite thousands of rounds with no cleaning or lube, being fed a variety of crappy (sometimes foreign produced) ammunition, etc.

7. Accuracy - this is where the HKs TRULY shine. I'm a pretty good pistol shot - nowhere near the ability of some of the top competitive shooters, but I'm no slouch. I've also had the pleasure of having the government pay to send me to NUMEROUS high-end "name" firearms training courses with my G19s, which have really "polished" my skills. In the four years leading up to 2012, I shot an average of 7-10K rounds per year through my G19s in training. Having said all that, I can shoot rings around my Glocks with any of my HKs - a difference which REALLY becomes noticeable at extended ranges or on "low probability" targets. The accuracy difference STILL surprises the heck out of me, even after a year of dedicated carry with the HK. This accuracy has greatly increased my confidence in my shooting skills - 25 yard off hand head shots are now any "easy day" as opposed to a "I think I can" moment...

8. Overall - I work primarily in plain clothes, so, for me, the P2000 (which I actually shoot slightly better than my P30, for no reason I can determine) has become my "go to" pistol. Were I in your shoes, I would opt for the P30L, and I would get the light LEM. As stated above, the LEM isn't a perfect trigger, and, if you're going to shoot standing flat-footed at a large target at close range against a good Glock shooter, he'll probably outdo your splits by .02-.03 seconds per shot; but when you're trying to make your shots COUNT, the P30's accuracy is going to bring home the bacon. You just have to know going in that you'll need to get on the horn to HK USA and get a set of "S" slide release levers; and invest in some snap caps and start dry firing the crap out of the pistol before you take it on the street. It took me about two weeks of dry-firing 30-60 minutes per day to train myself into making the LEM pull a continuous, smooth stroke instead of a "stack and jerk" - and if I can figure it out, any competent pistoleer can...

9. Options - the standard "luminova" sights blow chunks - get set to drop some coin on decent NS and the 'smith to install them. Unlike a year or two ago, there are plenty of decent options out there - though, sadly, Ameriglo STILL refuses to make "CAP" sights for the P30 or P2000. Magazines are usually fairly easy to find, and, while more expensive than Glock mags, still not ridiculous. There should be any number of holster makes who should be able to meet your needs; Safariland in particular makes a light-mounted version for the P30L.

Hope this helps, feel free to ask any follow-ups you need...

Regards,

Kevin

mrvip27
09-08-13, 21:14
I think its important to note that the P30 Lem trigger is quite different feeling/functioning than the HK45/c and USP lem variants. (reset length, etc.) I believe the HK45 and USP are modular.

Correct me if I am wrong.

YVK
09-08-13, 21:14
am I gaining more reliability out of the P30 than I am the Glock?
are there viable Level III duty holster options for the P30/S/L?
is the trigger that bad or do I just need time behind it?
Will the P30S fit in a standard P30 holster?
Is the V1 similar to a "glock" trigger, or is the V3 the better option?
Is carrying it cocked and locked a bad idea or a valid way to carry?

Would you make this trade if money were not an option?

No. You're shooting Glock well, you have gear and support for it and it has been reliable in your hands. What else do you need?

Gun feeling great in your hands is pleasant, but not indicative of how well or poorly you're going to shoot it.

Reliability, I would say even between the two based on personal experience. My P30 broke a trigger return spring well below recommended maintenance interval. Twice. I know of many others who had this happen. Some P30 guns had issue with ejection and have been suggested to have a break in period, something I personally consider a nonsense. So, despite a negative rep that Glocks have received recently, I don't think this is a decisive win for P30.

Potential negatives: quite a few very good shooters couldn't get to their expected level of performance with LEM and gave up, you'll likely have issues with slide stop interference if you went non-S option (be sure your agency allows for firearms modifications), expensive mags, less sights options, suboptimal DA/SA.

I think that two valid reasons to switch would be if you wanted to learn a new system and don't mind time and performance decline for a bit, or if you wanted a higher safety margin with longer trigger pull and hammer down design, and benefit of self-decocking with LEM.

C4IGrant
09-08-13, 21:57
I won't get into which gun you should get, but if you go with HK, we have LE versions in stock with 3 mags!


C4

LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-08-13, 22:49
Guys,

I appreciate all the input, I'm too tired to reply individually and have to hit the rack.

One question though: If I test out different versions of USP's, will that be similar to testing out the triggers of a P30? My local range has all sorts of USP's for rent.

Tzook
09-08-13, 23:08
Personally, I have tried to do this exact same thing my entire shooting career and I would up back at a Glock 17.

I shot it very, very well and it was just natural for me. I first tried Sig, hated it, then USPs, didn't like it much, then a P30, hated it and finally M&Ps. I do still shoot M&Ps and I feel they are the second best offering on the market.

I didn't own an LEM P30, but the trigger on the V3 is just a joke. It is an ergonomically pleasing gun, but I simply could not overcome how bad the trigger was. I think it truly did bring me down as a shooter

I would advise you to keep shooting what is already working well for you, in the end when you go back to it you'll be money ahead.

YVK
09-08-13, 23:26
I didn't own an LEM P30, but the trigger on the V1 is just a joke.

I thought V1 was LEM..

High Tower
09-08-13, 23:34
P30 LEM is V2. ETA - disregard apparently there is no V2 in the P30 series.

OP, my vote is for the P30S.

DreadPirateMoyer
09-08-13, 23:37
No. You're shooting Glock well, you have gear and support for it and it has been reliable in your hands. What else do you need?

...

Reliability, I would say even between the two based on personal experience. My P30 broke a trigger return spring well below recommended maintenance interval. Twice. I know of many others who had this happen. Some P30 guns had issue with ejection and have been suggested to have a break in period, something I personally consider a nonsense. So, despite a negative rep that Glocks have received recently, I don't think this is a decisive win for P30...

The only problem with the "reliable in your hands" thing is Glocks have been exhibiting all manners of ejection and stovepipe problems as of late. In fact, it's been happening so much, I'd be willing to bet that the stovepipes LSHD's gun experienced were the fault of the Glock, not the people. I say this because 1) all of the corroborating evidence people have posted recently about this problem in modern-production Glocks and 2) every single Glock I've purchased recently has exhibited these problems as well. My recent-purchase Glocks were so unreliable with regards to ejection and stovepiping (1 every 400 rounds or so; roughly the same interval as LSHD's) that I ditched them all for HKs. LSHD has good reason to doubt his gun's reliability, especially when his life may be on the line. Quite frankly, I won't purchase another Glock for years because of these experiences.

With regards to the second, I'd say that's an anomaly. Unlike Glock ejection problems, HK parts breakages are not often reported. No gun is perfect, but there's not much out there to suggest the same would happen to LSHD. Not to mention that I'm sure for every problem like yours found in an HK, I'm sure you could find at least and equal number in Glocks. In reality, it's much less likely for an HK to have such issues due to their higher material standards and higher QC/QA.

Overall, LSHD, since I can't sell you mags, let me proffer this advice: buy the P30 in DA/SA with a safety/decocker so you can carry it cocked/locked and never look back. I've put roughly 10,000 rounds through multiple recent-production Glocks and have kept abreast of the situation, and you are perfectly righteous in your questioning of yours. It required the Apex extractor, so something was wrong to begin with, and so far it has a MRBS of 400-500: 400% worse than the industry average (2500).

Tzook
09-08-13, 23:45
I thought V1 was LEM..

Whoops sorry you're right, I meant V3. Edited to reflect such

wilco423
09-08-13, 23:51
I thought V1 was LEM..


P30 LEM is V2.

V1 is the "light" LEM, V2 is "heavy" (4.5# vs. 7.3#).

High Tower
09-08-13, 23:55
V2 is "heavy" (4.5# vs. 7.3#).

That's what I thought. Then I went to double check on their website and they didn't list a variant 2.

rathos
09-08-13, 23:55
If you want a standard P30 I don't know of any level 3 duty holsters that support a light. Safariland does make a 6280 (the SLS only) for the P30L and a light. The ALS only or als/SLS combo is only made for the P30 without a light.

YVK
09-09-13, 00:08
With regards to the second, I'd say that's an anomaly. Unlike Glock ejection problems, HK parts breakages are not often reported. No gun is perfect, but there's not much out there to suggest the same would happen to LSHD. Not to mention that I'm sure for every problem like yours found in an HK, I'm sure you could find at least and equal number in Glocks. In reality, it's much less likely for an HK to have such issues due to their higher material standards and higher QC/QA..

Well reported occurrence, the TRS failure. Lots of folks have decreased their interval for replacement to 7500, and just everybody recommends counting dry fire count into replacement interval. Not a biggy, but not an anomaly.

My own late production Gen4 17 had one FTE so far, at 750 rounds or so.

DreadPirateMoyer
09-09-13, 00:58
But below the maintenance interval? I've never heard of that until today, in fact.

gtmtnbiker98
09-09-13, 07:19
My department just transitioned from the Sig P229R .40 to the P30 V1 9mm. Safariland makes a Level 1 and 2 holster (SLS) for the P30 V1 9mm. Also, for those wanting a light attached, we've found that our Safariland P229R holsters for the TLR-1 also fits the P30 V1 with TLR-1 attached.

As for a true Level 3, the only option we found was the Blackhawk and we didn't consider the Blackhawk as a viable option.

As for after market support, both Trijicon and Meprolight make suitable night sights for the P30 (even HD's) and numerous holster makers abound that support the model. If you have any specific questions, feel free to send me a PM.

As for magazines, we can get 15-round magazines for $25.00 a piece, so magazines are not an issue.

Truth be told, IMO, the V1 LEM is the better option followed by perhaps the traditional V3. Choosing a model with the manual safety may prove problematic depending upon how the holster locking mechanism engages the pistol.

Javelin
09-09-13, 07:23
I'm a Glock fan but I think my P30 is an amazing pistol and probably now my favorite.

19852
09-09-13, 07:31
Yes, the DA trigger on my P-30 was heavy and gritty when I got it. Now it's just heavy as it has smoothed out over time. The long heavy pull has not been a hindrance to good shooting. I do practice regularly with a DA revolver. The reset is long too, but I've gotten used to it.
It is reliable and accurate with loads my other pistols don't like. Never had problems getting mags, usually in the $30-35 range.

Swamp Yankee
09-09-13, 08:10
Blade-Tech makes a Level 3 Duty Holster for the P30 with X300.

http://shop.blade-tech.com/level-duty-holster-wtaclight-c-1_4_10.html#.Ui3I3sakpWE

sadmin
09-09-13, 08:30
OP- can you just seek out a Gen3 H-K series glock 17? I believe those were still considered reliable as Glock used to be. I was in similar shoes, but in the end just stayed with Glock locating gen2s and early Gen 3s on the used market.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m/)

YVK
09-09-13, 08:46
But below the maintenance interval? I've never heard of that until today, in fact.

I was initially told the maintenance for the TRS was 12.5k. My first one broke at 5200 live + uncertain number of dry, in a middle of a match, out of all times. I replaced a second at around 10k. My third broke at just under 8k live + dry. Once I found that other people had similar experiences, I decided my interval is going to be 7.5k, except for the one I have now. When we discussed this elsewhere, a question was raised whether even small micro-damage to a TRS during installation could compromise longevity. So, my last one I installed super-carefully, and I am going to shoot it till failure just for my own curiosity. That said, since this is far from a singular event, I am going with 7.5k.
All mine were heavy TRS.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-10-13, 22:08
Gentlemen,

thank you so much for the replies. I am VERY interested in the P30L V1, the price is rough, but that can be overcome with saving. I wish I could find one and try the trigger before making a purchase though. The fact of the matter is that I do not trust my G17, and am ready for something more trust worthy. My agency requires at least a level 2 holster in basketweave, and that is not an option yet. I will have to debate on whether or not I want to get a black Bladetech for now and risk the wrath of a Commander, or just get a P30 and get the SF ALS.

Would shooting a USP be similar in the way the trigger feels of the P30?

montrala
09-11-13, 04:32
Would shooting a USP be similar in the way the trigger feels of the P30?

Pistols with USP series triggers (USP, USP Compact, HK45, HK45C) has slightly shorter trigger reset distance than pistols with P series triggers (P2000/SK, P30/L/S). Also, in my experience P30S/LS has very slightly longer reset than P30/L version (result of allowances made to fit manual safety in S version).

With that taken into account there is not much difference in trigger feel between P30 and USP (or HK45) unless one looks for this differences. There are of course trigger pull weight differences that are factors of different springs used on different variants or years of manufacture (hammer spring, firing pin block spring, sear spring, trigger return spring).

For LEM trigger there is new version (not yet available in US, but any P30 variant can be modified to it per HK Gmbh from Oberndorf) called V4 CH or V4.1. This version was made up to requirements of Swiss Police, who wanted to have shorter pre-travel (and overall trigger travel) for LEM trigger. This version does not reduce trigger reset distance.

To have trigger reset reduced only external gunsmith modification is available (for example Grayguns).

Swamp Yankee
09-11-13, 07:10
Level 2 Safariland in Basketweave:

http://copquest.com/23-1060_safariland-6280-mid-ride-level-2-holster-tac-light.htm

You can order the model for the P30L or HK45 and they should be interchangeable. My P30LS fits in HK45 duty holsters. Check it out.

The P30 seems to really be shaking things up in the LEO world and is proving to be the best overall choice for a duty weapon. I myself am attempting to become a disciple of the Cult of LEM.





Gentlemen,

thank you so much for the replies. I am VERY interested in the P30L V1, the price is rough, but that can be overcome with saving. I wish I could find one and try the trigger before making a purchase though. The fact of the matter is that I do not trust my G17, and am ready for something more trust worthy. My agency requires at least a level 2 holster in basketweave, and that is not an option yet. I will have to debate on whether or not I want to get a black Bladetech for now and risk the wrath of a Commander, or just get a P30 and get the SF ALS.

Would shooting a USP be similar in the way the trigger feels of the P30?

arcticlightfighter
09-11-13, 08:30
I just picked up a NIB P30 V1 (LITE LEM) 9mm with standard sights and an additional 4 mags that the LGS had in stock.

I dumped a M&P .40 and Beretta .40 to help pay for it. Definately not an affordable pistol. I will have to say that I am not disappointed in the typical overall quality of the HK pistol.

The range time was as expected. I only had time to run 200 rds of AE 115 gr. through it. I will definately have to work on this trigger. I am used to the M&P and GLOCK triggers and I found myself really pulling it to the left. Also, I need to configure the grip to the largest size. I think that also contributed to the results.

Overall, very happy with it. Now I need to find night sights and a duty holster.

As an aside, I located a LNIB USP 9C that Ill pick up tomorrow as an off duty gun. If I like the LEM, Ill prolly reconfigure that one as well.

AJD
09-11-13, 10:43
Would shooting a USP be similar in the way the trigger feels of the P30?

If your talking DA/SA then yes they feel pretty similar. The USP DA pull is going to be shorter and the reset is also a little shorter. Much like the CZ the USP decock's to the half cock position which makes for a shorter DA pull vs. the P30 which drops all the way down similar to a SIG.

arcticlightfighter
09-13-13, 08:00
Another quick 200 rds through the P30. I switched to the large grip panels and this really helped. I will definitely need alot more trigger time to get used to the LEM though.

When I started running reload drills (fire 3, reload fire 2) , my shot group opened way up.

I shoot the USPC 9mm I picked up as a companion piece more consistently then the P30. Aside from the ridiculously heavy initial DA pull, the reset is quite good and consistent with what I remember from my USP's 9 years or so ago. Ill be converting it to LEM LITE as well for consistency.

Both pistols will need night sights.

Overall, Im very satisfied with the P30. I think it will be worth the transition.

MountainRaven
09-13-13, 08:45
10-8 and Heinie also make sights for the P30/P30L.

Safariland makes but does not list an ALS holster for the P30L (with no light) in the 6378 (fit code 395). But it's only available in STX Plain Black and STX Tactical Black. And you'd need one of the UBLs and it's still just a Level I.

I have owned a three P30s (two P30Ls one P30), two with LEMs and one V3. And I heart my P30L V1.

jcwallace
09-13-13, 22:09
I haven't read all the posts in this thread. But I am a P30L owner of several years. As soon as I bought it I sent it to Bill Springfield (I guess there are some mixed reviews of his AR work) and the trigger came back 100% better and has functioned perfectly for almost 2k rounds. The problem is my PPQ's trigger is about 300% better and that's factory! So P30 + trigger work is a good thing. Its a fantastic pistol, with mediocre to poor trigger from the factory.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-14-13, 11:59
I had P30L plans today, but this ****ing flood has ruined em. Fantastic.

Thanks for all the great info gents.

MountainRaven
09-14-13, 12:02
I had P30L plans today, but this ****ing flood has ruined em. Fantastic.

Thanks for all the great info gents.

Savings get wiped out by flood damage or too busy rescuing people stranded by the floods?

LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-14-13, 12:06
Savings get wiped out by flood damage or too busy rescuing people stranded by the floods?

I personally havent had any property damage yet, however the flood from the Poudre River is now 6 miles away and growing, and the town over was evac'ed last night. I'm on standby now but haven't been called up yet as I am on vacation (but can't get to the airport!). The reason the plans were dashed is that the only store carrying what I need is playing submarine right now.

MountainRaven
09-14-13, 12:59
I personally havent had any property damage yet, however the flood from the Poudre River is now 6 miles away and growing, and the town over was evac'ed last night. I'm on standby now but haven't been called up yet as I am on vacation (but can't get to the airport!). The reason the plans were dashed is that the only store carrying what I need is playing submarine right now.

Well, the goods news is that it is an H&K and you might be able to get it with some sort of flood damage discount.

:)

LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-14-13, 18:05
Made it across the Poudre River today and braved flood waters to test the only P30 V1 in the area. I think the trigger is fine, and I actually really like the mag release levers and they almost make more sense than traditional thumb releases. In talks with Grant now about a P30L V1.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-15-13, 22:07
Update:

Starting to see no reasons to pay the extra price of the P30L over the P30. The P30 actually has ALS Level III Basket Weave Holsters, which is a gigantic plus. Our last On Duty Death was a Deputy that was killed with his own handgun during a struggle (RIP). A level III holster is very important to me, and I don't want to hear anything about retention training as it wouldn't have helped in that situation.

I can get a P30 V1 from Top Gun Shooter Supply for around 870 shipped, plus another mag from CDNN shipped for around 50, which puts me at 3 mags and a gun for less than anywhere else. I simply can't do that with the P30L. I don't see how the extra inch of barrel is worth the hassle of not finding holsters and another $100.

Hogsgunwild
09-16-13, 00:05
The shorter barrel is also plenty accurate, a fast draw and lighter weight. What is there not to love?

45C
09-16-13, 00:56
I agree about the standard barrel. I have a V1 and a V3 P30 and can hit a Coke can at 50 yards all day long. Also if your in and out of a vehicle all day the end of the standard barrel and holster ride about even with the seat where as the long barrel is gonna push into the seat of the vehicle. One more thing though the P30L that Grant has comes with factory installed Meprolight tritium night sights which is definetely worth the extra $100. Top Guns just comes with the standard Luminova sights, so if your guns been in the holster all day and you draw it out the rear dots will be semi bright and the front one dim, just something to think about.

jcwallace
09-16-13, 08:55
If I were to do it over again, I'd be more inclined to get the P30 instead of the P30L too. I felt that the P30 was better balanced. I got mine used so it was still a good deal.

karmapolice
09-16-13, 09:05
is there a safariland lvl III light bearing holster for it?

Psalms144.1
09-16-13, 09:08
LSHD - it sounds like you've thought this through pretty well. My thought was that, since the pistol is open duty carried anyway, might as well get all the pistol you can.

For me, since I'm in plain clothes, I carry the P2000, as I find the grip length of the P30 just "longer" enough to make it a lot harder to conceal under light covering garments. Hence my thought that, if I were open carrying, I'd take the P30, and get the extra barrel length of the "L" model.

On the issue of holsters, I'm unaware of Safariland making a holster for the standard P30 that accomodates a WML - but they do make one for a P30L with light...

Either way, I'm sure you won't be disappointed! Also, you might want to contact Grant at G&R Tactical - IIRC, he is now an HK LE distributor, so you might be able to get your P30 with NS and a third magazine for a little less money.

Stay safe, brother!

Kevin

MountainRaven
09-16-13, 10:07
Jeez, you people are a bunch of whiners.

"Oh, the P30L is too big!"

"Oh, I can't find a holster for the P30L!"

Kidding! ;)

Can't go wrong, either way.

IMHO, now that Safariland has the basic ALS holster out for the P30L, it's only a matter of time before they get the higher retention holsters and ALS holsters for the P30L with, say, an X300. (Of course, it could still be years.)

arcticlightfighter
09-16-13, 12:41
The shorter barrel is also plenty accurate, a fast draw and lighter weight. What is there not to love?



I agree. The shorter slide/barrel is fast out of the holster.

Swamp Yankee
09-16-13, 14:12
I would go with the deal you just tracked down, unless Grant can offer you a better deal on a standard P30 LEM. Seriously take a look at a set of Trijicon HD night sights or a set of 10-8 sights instead of the factory Mep's. I would get on a wait list for the HD's while you are still practicing with the P30 and deciding if you are going to keep it.

Auto426
09-16-13, 17:08
Damn this thread. I've been slowly exploring the polymer pistol marketing looking to get my first poly hi-cap 9mm. I've been holding out on getting one for a while now, but I'm finally coming around and the HK P30 has caught my interest.

I finally found one out in the wild last weekend and made the mistake of picking it up. The gun had the large backstrap installed which is a little too big for my tastes, but damn if that gun didn't feel like it just melted away in my hands. I was worried that I would hate the paddle style mag release, but it felt like it was positioned just perfectly and I could drop mags with no issue. The balance of the gun was damn near perfect, and it's build quality was readily apparent.

Looks like its time to start saving up...

LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-16-13, 21:26
I spoke with Grant at length today and he schooled me on the P30. I went ahead and ordered a P30 V1 LE model from him and I now can not wait for it to get here. Of course I will update when it arrives with a range report.

Question:

Will P30 magazines fit in my Safariland G17 Magazine Pouches

High Tower
09-16-13, 21:44
That's awesome to hear!

I use the same mag pouches for Glock 17 and P30 mags. I'd imagine the only time you'd run into a problem there is if the mag pouch is molded kydex for a particular mag.

HKGuns
09-16-13, 21:49
This post is for auto426, my apologies OP, but I couldn't resist. I too find no problem with the standard barrel P30 and would go with the deal you have on the table. I do think you can find mags for less than 50 bucks however.

I've never ordered from these guys but they appear to be in stock and a lot less money.
https://delta3outfitters.com/store/products/MAG-HK-P30-9MM-15RD.html

For auto426........

http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v39/p274470996-5.jpg

SPQR476
09-16-13, 22:11
Hk specialist in stock $32.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-16-13, 22:20
Hk specialist in stock $32.

They had 6 in stock, I took two of those. Thanks for the heads up.

SPQR476
09-16-13, 22:23
Sheesh...they had 36 in stock at 6pm mountain.

Auto426
09-16-13, 23:23
This post is for auto426, my apologies OP, but I couldn't resist. I too find no problem with the standard barrel P30 and would go with the deal you have on the table. I do think you can find mags for less than 50 bucks however.

I've never ordered from these guys but they appear to be in stock and a lot less money.
https://delta3outfitters.com/store/products/MAG-HK-P30-9MM-15RD.html

For auto426........

http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v39/p274470996-5.jpg

I don't think it going to take anymore prodding at this point. After reading about them for a while and finally getting my mits on one I'm pretty well sold.

At this time though I am trying to wait patiently and save up a little. I've been on a bit of buying spree lately and just purchased a BCM Lower a few days ago which will now likely sit idle as my attention has shifted to the P30. Might have to treat myself to an early Christmas/birthday present.

jbg270
09-18-13, 10:59
...the esteemed Colorado leaders have deemed that NO ONE (including LEO's) can buy magazines over 15 rounds...

Please excuse the thread drift but it was my understanding that LEO's were exempt. Is that not the case?

Psalms144.1
09-18-13, 11:55
I can't speak for CO, but I can tell you my experience being recently banished to NY. As a federal LEO, and "Peace Officer" under NY Statutes, I'm "exempt" from NY's most recent round of craziness. However, I have yet to find ANY FFL in the local area who will handle the transfer of a pistol that holds in excess of 7 rounds, and during conversations with HK yesterday, their ordering system prohibits shipment of any magazines to NYS at all. The only exception is for LE AGENCIES, no LEO exception...

Regards,

Kevin

Mak8080
09-18-13, 12:03
Here's my brief take. I've owned Glocks and a few different P30's as well as other variants of the USP and P2000 line. I've used them all in competition and classes.

The P30 has been the most comfortable feeling pistol I've ever used. It just seems to work. It is on par, size wise, with a G17. Years ago when they came out (I think 2008ish), I was so eager to pick up one to accompay my G19's, that I was a bit shocked it was bigger than I expected.

I felt the slide release on the bigger/longer side. I think the mag release is awesome.

The DA/SA isn't horrible, but you'll need some transition time coming from a Glock. You'll need some time for LEM as well. The trigger reset was long. If are used to a Glock, I think going to the LEM would be your best bet. I have not used a light LEM trigger before. It maybe just me, but I felt the P2000 LEM was better.

As for reliability, at least for me, they both are rock solid. I've never had any sort of issue with either other than regular maintenance.

Mags are more expensive than Glock. The stock "night sights" suck. Get some real sights. I don't know if they finally are making Trijicon HD's or Meps or Ameriglo Hacks or CAP, but I sure hope so by now. Finally, there are quite a few options for night sights. Like anything HK, it always takes the market a bit to make accessories for them.

With all the being said, a V1 P30 or P30L would be ideal. Good choice OP.

arcticlightfighter
09-18-13, 19:54
Did some bunker work today with my P30. One handed reloads using the stock rear "Novak" style sights to rack the slide are impossible.

I need to get some Meps or similar that are actually tritium and have a ledge for one handed operation.

Still on the fence with the LEM LITE trigger. I shoot my USP C 9mm DA/SA so much more accurately.

Need more trigger time.

Psalms144.1
09-18-13, 20:10
Arctic - I have the Mepros on my P30, and they're "OK." Not a lot of "ledge" for one-handed manipulation. Take a look at Heinie, 10-8, or Trijicon HDs for easier manipulation, IMHO.

The LEM does take time to get accustomed to. Try to press straight through without "staging" - it will eliminate any possible anticipation issues. I would also advise not trying to "catch the link" on reset - just let your finger out a ways and start the press over - otherwise you may "short stroke" the reset until it becomes ingrained...

Regards,

Kevin

MountainRaven
09-18-13, 20:58
I spoke with Grant at length today and he schooled me on the P30. I went ahead and ordered a P30 V1 LE model from him and I now can not wait for it to get here. Of course I will update when it arrives with a range report.

Question:

Will P30 magazines fit in my Safariland G17 Magazine Pouches

If your Safariland magazine pouches have a screw for adjusting tension, maybe. I have a mag pouch from Comp-Tac that I bought for a P30 but have run Glock 19/17 mags in, by loosening the retention screw up quite a bit. Tighten it back down and I'm back to P30 mags.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-18-13, 22:25
If your Safariland magazine pouches have a screw for adjusting tension, maybe. I have a mag pouch from Comp-Tac that I bought for a P30 but have run Glock 19/17 mags in, by loosening the retention screw up quite a bit. Tighten it back down and I'm back to P30 mags.

No tension screw, however they are leather pouches with a flap (makes for godawful reload times) so I would imagine that just about any double stack 9mm mag should fit ok.

I love this forum btw. This thread has become a wealth of knowledge for me in making this transition.

montrala
09-19-13, 05:07
I love this forum btw. This thread has become a wealth of knowledge for me in making this transition.

One more advice then. Experiment with grip configuration. You can mix-match side and rear panels any way you want, try also non-obvious mixes. Do some presentations and see how sights align on fast draw. Shoot some speed and accuracy balance drills with different setups and see how it works for you. I found that setting grip just by feel is not best way - P30 grip just feel good every time. Fine tuning can make big difference when shooting.

Talon167
09-19-13, 06:23
Did some bunker work today with my P30. One handed reloads using the stock rear "Novak" style sights to rack the slide are impossible.

I need to get some Meps or similar that are actually tritium and have a ledge for one handed operation.

Still on the fence with the LEM LITE trigger. I shoot my USP C 9mm DA/SA so much more accurately.

Need more trigger time.

Try putting some grip tape on the top of the slide. That's what I did on mine. It helps...

Swamp Yankee
09-19-13, 06:29
One more advice then. Experiment with grip configuration. You can mix-match side and rear panels any way you want, try also non-obvious mixes. Do some presentations as see how sights align on fas draw. Shoot some speed and accuracy balance drills with different setups and see how it works for you. I found that setting grip just by feel is not best way - P30 grip just feel good every time. Fine tuning can make big difference when shooting.

Great point!

I was using the medium back strap and side panels as is comes from the factory. Then I read on another forum Ernest Langdon's comments about using the large back strap and small side panels. I decided to give this a shot, since I have very large hands as well and it worked fantastically! This configuration allows me to get a much higher grip and really squeeze the shit out of it with my mits.

arcticlightfighter
09-20-13, 08:09
Try putting some grip tape on the top of the slide. That's what I did on mine. It helps...

Ill try this first. I can live with the factory "glow in the dark" sights and finding someone around here with an HK sight pusher is not likely.

montrala
09-20-13, 09:37
Ill try this first. I can live with the factory "glow in the dark" sights and finding someone around here with an HK sight pusher is not likely.

My sight pusher for HK is alu rod and small hammer plus small vise. Worked great for me all the time. There is link to great DIY video on installing sights on Dawson Precision page. OFM HK sights are easy to remove because they have flexible dovetails that work like springs. Sights with solid dovetails need to fitted, but not rocket science as well.

Mark original sights center positions somehow (tape, white marker, etc.) before removal to get reference point for new sights. Makes sighting procedure easier.

SPQR476
09-20-13, 09:48
Well, I'm gonna try this Deutsche stuff out. My P30L v1 is somewhere on a UPS truck headed here for delivery today.

gtmtnbiker98
09-20-13, 14:15
Well, I'm gonna try this Deutsche stuff out. My P30L v1 is somewhere on a UPS truck headed here for delivery today.
Be sure to run some NATO spec or at least 124gr through it for the first couple hundred. The redesigned RSA is stiff as hell and has been known to choke on 115gr until broken in.

arcticlightfighter
09-20-13, 14:29
Be sure to run some NATO spec or at least 124gr through it for the first couple hundred. The redesigned RSA is stiff as hell and has been known to choke on 115gr until broken in.

Ive got around 500 rds of 115 gr AE through mine without issue so far.

No ammo related issues so far but I induced a single FTE by gripping it too high with gloves and the slide got hung up.

montrala
09-20-13, 14:51
Ive got around 500 rds of 115 gr AE through mine without issue so far.

No ammo related issues so far but I induced a single FTE by gripping it too high with gloves and the slide got hung up.

P30L is more prone to need of break-in period (slightly heavier slide and barrel need little more uuumph to cycle while recoil spring is fresh). P30 in most cases do not, but some seriously underpowered ammo (well under 130 IPSC/USPSA power factor) can initially give some stovepipes or other ejection problems. Those pistols are designed with ammo that has performance comparable to US +P ammo in mind.

spr1
09-20-13, 14:56
LSHD - I had a similar conundrum back in early 2012, after my fifth G19 crapped the bed straight out of the box. I picked up a P30 with the "heavy" (then standard) LEM, in 9mm, as a replacement. Shortly thereafter, I fell into a lightly used P2000 9mm LEM. I changed the FPBS on both to get the "TLG" version of the LEM - lighter pull weight, but stronger reset. Unfortunately, to date, I have not had the opportunity to test the "Light" LEM - though I'm tempted. Around the same time, my old team started transitioning from issued G19s to issued HK 45CTs, with the DA/SA/Decock only trigger (can't keep the version numbers straight, sorry about that!) These are my observations:

1. The P30's ergonomics are exceptional - best of any pistol I've ever owned or held, and the ability to mix & match grip elements really lets you customize your grip exactly how you like it.

2. The P30 is not terribly size efficient - the grip is G17 length, but holds 2 fewer rounds, and the barrel/sight radius are shortish. As an open-carry "duty" pistol, I would DEFINITELY opt for the P30L, which can be found at any number of decent LE dealers (and commercial dealers) for less than the price you listed. You don't NEED the extra barrel and sight radius, but there's no reason not to have them, given the longish grip length.

3. The P30's slide release levers are ridiculously long, so you WILL have to adjust your grip to avoid accidentally activating them, leading to a slide-forward-on-empty-chamber scenario. You can replace them with the slide release levers on the P30S, which are shorter, but they're still "in the way," IMHO.

4. The LEM trigger on the P30 is the "worst" execution of the LEM, IMHO. The take up is smooth, light, and long (though not excessively so), but then it hits a SIGNIFICANT "wall." This wall causes a lot of new LEM shooters, including myself, to "stage" the trigger - pulling quickly through the takeup to the "wall" and then "snatching" when the sight picture is perfect - leading to sub-optimal results. Please note, I have NOT, tried the "light" LEM, so this might be a whole different ball of wax. The reset on the LEM is long-ish - if you're a long time Glock shooter, you may be disappointed in how long - but you can definitely train through it. I did, and my split times with the standard LEM are, for all intents and purposes, indistinguishable now with what I could do with the Glock that I carried for over seven years.

5. The DA/SA on the HK45CT was atrocious - the DA pull on mine had to be AT LEAST 14 pounds, and gritty. The reset was reasonable, with minimal pre-travel before the SA trigger broke, which it did relatively cleanly. Because these were issued weapons, we were not allowed to alter them, or I would have swapped that decock-only lever to a safety only or safety-decock; and carried the pistol cocked & locked.

6. Reliability - all of the HKs I've handled have been dead-nuts reliable; boringly, predictably reliable - despite thousands of rounds with no cleaning or lube, being fed a variety of crappy (sometimes foreign produced) ammunition, etc.

7. Accuracy - this is where the HKs TRULY shine. I'm a pretty good pistol shot - nowhere near the ability of some of the top competitive shooters, but I'm no slouch. I've also had the pleasure of having the government pay to send me to NUMEROUS high-end "name" firearms training courses with my G19s, which have really "polished" my skills. In the four years leading up to 2012, I shot an average of 7-10K rounds per year through my G19s in training. Having said all that, I can shoot rings around my Glocks with any of my HKs - a difference which REALLY becomes noticeable at extended ranges or on "low probability" targets. The accuracy difference STILL surprises the heck out of me, even after a year of dedicated carry with the HK. This accuracy has greatly increased my confidence in my shooting skills - 25 yard off hand head shots are now any "easy day" as opposed to a "I think I can" moment...

8. Overall - I work primarily in plain clothes, so, for me, the P2000 (which I actually shoot slightly better than my P30, for no reason I can determine) has become my "go to" pistol. Were I in your shoes, I would opt for the P30L, and I would get the light LEM. As stated above, the LEM isn't a perfect trigger, and, if you're going to shoot standing flat-footed at a large target at close range against a good Glock shooter, he'll probably outdo your splits by .02-.03 seconds per shot; but when you're trying to make your shots COUNT, the P30's accuracy is going to bring home the bacon. You just have to know going in that you'll need to get on the horn to HK USA and get a set of "S" slide release levers; and invest in some snap caps and start dry firing the crap out of the pistol before you take it on the street. It took me about two weeks of dry-firing 30-60 minutes per day to train myself into making the LEM pull a continuous, smooth stroke instead of a "stack and jerk" - and if I can figure it out, any competent pistoleer can...

9. Options - the standard "luminova" sights blow chunks - get set to drop some coin on decent NS and the 'smith to install them. Unlike a year or two ago, there are plenty of decent options out there - though, sadly, Ameriglo STILL refuses to make "CAP" sights for the P30 or P2000. Magazines are usually fairly easy to find, and, while more expensive than Glock mags, still not ridiculous. There should be any number of holster makes who should be able to meet your needs; Safariland in particular makes a light-mounted version for the P30L.

Hope this helps, feel free to ask any follow-ups you need...

Regards,

Kevin

With regards to item 4, the Todd Green set up of heavy trigger spring, light firing pin block and V3 light hammer spring makes for a 5.5 lb almost revolver like feel. The heavy stacking on the V2 is due to the hammer spring.

SPQR476
09-20-13, 15:36
Be sure to run some NATO spec or at least 124gr through it for the first couple hundred. The redesigned RSA is stiff as hell and has been known to choke on 115gr until broken in.

I'm gonna leave it locked back from tonight til sunday apart from my dry fire time. That's the first I can get to the range.

This is a sexy little blaster.

The trigger feels nice so far, but I already grabbed a heavy TRS just in case reset isn't brisk enough for me. (and as a backup to have on hand)

C4IGrant
09-20-13, 15:39
Be sure to run some NATO spec or at least 124gr through it for the first couple hundred. The redesigned RSA is stiff as hell and has been known to choke on 115gr until broken in.

Right (and lock the slide to the rear for a couple days). :D



C4

Corse
09-20-13, 15:48
Ive got around 500 rds of 115 gr AE through mine without issue so far.

No ammo related issues so far but I induced a single FTE by gripping it too high with gloves and the slide got hung up.

All 115gr ammo through two P30Ls and not one issue.

spr1
09-20-13, 16:06
With multiple examples, the lighter hammer spring has allowed full function with WW bulk packs from new.
The factory grease should be removed with a good lubricant like Slip EWL before shooting as well.
The recoil spring is actually not very stout. The hammer fired design allows the recoil force to be distributed between two springs. Just leaving it "cocked" with the slide down will probably do the majority of the dry break-in.

Psalms144.1
09-20-13, 18:38
With regards to item 4, the Todd Green set up of heavy trigger spring, light firing pin block and V3 light hammer spring makes for a 5.5 lb almost revolver like feel. The heavy stacking on the V2 is due to the hammer spring.Thanks - I've got V3 hammer springs en route for both my P30 and P2000. If those "do the trick" I wont have to go through the kabuki dance to get the light TRS installed...

SPQR476
09-22-13, 18:40
First impressions:
I've always loved how these felt in the hand. The v2 and v3 triggers I've felt in these have been deal killers, however. This v1 LEM in this P30L is awesome. I've never felt one in person and just took the gamble, and I'm glad I did. I find that this sample, at least, has a more defined "wall" than my Glock triggers. Breaks at 6lbs, even, but feels lighter.

Reset is long, but, I'm a "flicker". I come off my trigger very fast after the shot breaks (unless its slow and deliberate shooting), and overshoot reset--but never lose contact with the trigger. It was a small adjustment to deal with the longer reset, but there were only 2 instances in the first 50 rounds where I "short stroked" it. After that no issues.

100% reliable out of the gate with rem umc 115, mag tech 115, and hdy 124gr XTP +P. Hits about 6" above the front sight blade at 25 with the meprolight sights. It's stupid accurate. About 275 rounds today total.

I put the normal skid tape in front of the meprolight rear, and one handed manipulations are cake, even using jeans pockets.

Splits...after about 100 rounds, I started looking at splits. Bore axis is higher, but I find the sights come back fast. Shoots soft, even with the +P. Splits were initially a couple hundredths off my glock splits, but at the end, I was running .14-.18 at 5 yds, .15-.19 at 7, and .18-.24 from 10-15yds, which is statistically identical to what I can do with an Austrian pistol.

Draw was initially slower, but down under 1.0 in no time as I grew more familiar. Was using a blade tech owb since I found one in stock.

Negatives...I'm still only at about 75% or so for the slide locking back. I'm still working on modifying my grip to stay away from those levers for the other 25%. On the other hand, I've been an overhand slide guy, but those levers are right there and so hard to miss, so my reloads are faster, of course. I already took a file to the mag releases and the frame is getting it next. My middle finger is a bit red in the normal place it gets red before a glock frame gets filed. Other than that...I like it.

My complete Dale Fricke "carry package" that I get for anything I strap on is on the way (2 Zachs, an Archangel, a Gideon Elite, and Gideon mag holders), so I'm going to swap out and carry this for a while. It conceals as easily as the G19 I normally carry since I have a SL threaded bbl in it. The G19 actually ends up longer with the 17 length bbl, and the rounded butt of the P30 hides just as well as the shorter glock frame with the steeper angle.

In short, I like it a lot. I don't know if I'm completely willing to give up my RMRd Glocks yet, but I'm liking the Hk so far.

ffhounddog
09-22-13, 19:45
If you are looking at a backup or a off duty gun when you need something smaller look at the P2000sk. They can even take the mags of the P2000 and P30.

SPQR476
09-22-13, 20:53
P30L or regular P30 will be fine for EDC for me. I can comfortably carry a G21 AIWB in shorts and a t-shirt, so the P30L is gravy.

theblackknight
09-22-13, 22:41
I can comfortably carry a G21 AIWB in shorts and a t-shirt, so the P30L is gravy.

Wow!

sent from mah gun,using my sights

SPQR476
09-22-13, 22:58
Cue the litany of jokes about small junk...now. ;-)

SeriousStudent
09-22-13, 23:30
Nah, it just proves you have to be a badass to work for Magpul. :D

Mauser KAR98K
09-23-13, 00:01
Welcome to the world of HK, and you don't suck, nor do they hate these days.

I have yet to handle a P30, but I own and EDC a USP9 in DA/SA. I had been EDCing a M&P9, but I really seem to shoot the USP much better. Only "mods" I have done was replaced the hammer spring with a lighter one for the DA pull (much better), and put the GG&G light adapter on so i can run a TRL-1s. Other than that, mine USP has been gold, yet it took me a while to really bound with it.

Keep working with it and I am sure your EDC will be your P30. My switch was due to better accuracy at longer ranges (15 yards and beyond), the unbelievable reliability I have had with it.

If it turns out you really like the P30 and are going to run a lot, start getting spare parts for it sooner rather than later. I'm not sure what spares to have on hand for the P30, but their is a lot of info on them, plus the manual, of what parts are expected to belly up (usually they go a lot longer than what HK or others say).

HK is like the BMW motorcycles of handguns.

montrala
09-23-13, 03:19
I'm not sure what spares to have on hand for the P30, but their is a lot of info on them, plus the manual, of what parts are expected to belly up (usually they go a lot longer than what HK or others say).

In old USPs weak point was firing pin, but HK quickly redesigned it. In current production only part that can go belly up (I seen more that 1 instance of this) is sear leaf spring. Symptoms are that trigger stops to go to SA (or to keep cocking piece cocked in LEM) from time to time and works like DAO trigger. It still is functional.

Other parts failures are usually matter of some improvements done to them or some enthusiastic mean to replace them (it is easy to damage trigger return spring, especially light one).

I did not see that, but there were several reports of backstrap roll pin walking out of place.

Five_Point_Five_Six
09-23-13, 07:58
I'm saving up my milk money for a P30, maybe P30L in LEM.

C4IGrant
09-23-13, 09:12
First impressions:
I've always loved how these felt in the hand. The v2 and v3 triggers I've felt in these have been deal killers, however. This v1 LEM in this P30L is awesome. I've never felt one in person and just took the gamble, and I'm glad I did. I find that this sample, at least, has a more defined "wall" than my Glock triggers. Breaks at 6lbs, even, but feels lighter.

Reset is long, but, I'm a "flicker". I come off my trigger very fast after the shot breaks (unless its slow and deliberate shooting), and overshoot reset--but never lose contact with the trigger. It was a small adjustment to deal with the longer reset, but there were only 2 instances in the first 50 rounds where I "short stroked" it. After that no issues.

100% reliable out of the gate with rem umc 115, mag tech 115, and hdy 124gr XTP +P. Hits about 6" above the front sight blade at 25 with the meprolight sights. It's stupid accurate. About 275 rounds today total.

I put the normal skid tape in front of the meprolight rear, and one handed manipulations are cake, even using jeans pockets.

Splits...after about 100 rounds, I started looking at splits. Bore axis is higher, but I find the sights come back fast. Shoots soft, even with the +P. Splits were initially a couple hundredths off my glock splits, but at the end, I was running .14-.18 at 5 yds, .15-.19 at 7, and .18-.24 from 10-15yds, which is statistically identical to what I can do with an Austrian pistol.

Draw was initially slower, but down under 1.0 in no time as I grew more familiar. Was using a blade tech owb since I found one in stock.

Negatives...I'm still only at about 75% or so for the slide locking back. I'm still working on modifying my grip to stay away from those levers for the other 25%. On the other hand, I've been an overhand slide guy, but those levers are right there and so hard to miss, so my reloads are faster, of course. I already took a file to the mag releases and the frame is getting it next. My middle finger is a bit red in the normal place it gets red before a glock frame gets filed. Other than that...I like it.

My complete Dale Fricke "carry package" that I get for anything I strap on is on the way (2 Zachs, an Archangel, a Gideon Elite, and Gideon mag holders), so I'm going to swap out and carry this for a while. It conceals as easily as the G19 I normally carry since I have a SL threaded bbl in it. The G19 actually ends up longer with the 17 length bbl, and the rounded butt of the P30 hides just as well as the shorter glock frame with the steeper angle.

In short, I like it a lot. I don't know if I'm completely willing to give up my RMRd Glocks yet, but I'm liking the Hk so far.


This is interesting because people have argued on here to death that you cannot shoot an HK pistol as fast a say a Glock or M&P.

Apparently you can (if you know how to shoot). ;)



C4

montrala
09-24-13, 05:16
This is interesting because people have argued on here to death that you cannot shoot an HK pistol as fast a say a Glock or M&P.

There is grain of truth there, applied to USP full size series. But it does not have anything to do with "high bore line" (another urban myth - USP has same bore line height over shooter hand as 1911/2011), but to fancy recoil system. This recoil system slows down slide velocity significantly and make gun feel sluggish on tracking. Several people shooting USP variants in competition (IPSC) converted then to single spring system and reported immediate gain on split times

But single spring designs (USP Compact, P2000, P30/L, HK45/C) have very good tracking and can be shot as fast as Glock or M&P or PPQ "out of the box"... if shooter can do his part.

Hogsgunwild
09-24-13, 05:46
There is grain of truth there, applied to USP full size series. But it does not have anything to do with "high bore line" (another urban myth - USP has same bore line height over shooter hand as 1911/2011), but to fancy recoil system. This recoil system slows down slide velocity significantly and make gun feel sluggish on tracking. Several people shooting USP variants in competition (IPSC) converted then to single spring system and reported immediate gain on split times

But single spring designs (USP Compact, P2000, P30/L, HK45/C) have very good tracking and can be shot as fast as Glock or M&P or PPQ "out of the box"... if shooter can do his part.

Hi Montrala,

How do you like the P99AS pistols in comparison to the P30?
I am guessing (or perhaps recall) that you may have some time on these Walthers? I keep renting the P30 to compare to my P99AS models and keep finding my P99s faster. Of course I spend a preponderance of my time on the Walthers. I have even parked my PPQs as I now prefer the P99s.

Thanks! I still am very enamored by the H&Ks...

samuse
09-24-13, 05:53
... "high bore line" (another urban myth - USP has same bore line height over shooter hand as 1911/2011)...

I noticed that years ago. I think it gets overlooked because a 1911 appears to sit lower in the hand.

montrala
09-24-13, 07:20
How do you like the P99AS pistols in comparison to the P30?
I am guessing (or perhaps recall) that you may have some time on these Walthers? I keep renting the P30 to compare to my P99AS models and keep finding my P99s faster. Of course I spend a preponderance of my time on the Walthers. I have even parked my PPQs as I now prefer the P99s.

Actually I was huge fan of P99AS (I was going to get one for myself) until I got P2000 V0 (GPM) in my hands (purchased it and got HK bug). But despite that P99AS is very nice to shoot and very fast, flat shooting pistol. It got some bad rep due to initial barrel technology (cold welding of recoil lugs to barrel could give up sometimes), but since they started to use one piece cold hammer forged barrels from FB Radom those problems never resurfaced. They also had some reliability problems with 16rd magazines, but going back to 15 rounders solved that. They have some like 75K of them sold to Polish Police, so of course there are complaints and problems from time to time in that huge sample, but generally it is fine pistol. If it works great for you, do not try to force yourself on other platform.

Hogsgunwild
09-24-13, 13:56
Actually I was huge fan of P99AS (I was going to get one for myself) until I got P2000 V0 (GPM) in my hands (purchased it and got HK bug). But despite that P99AS is very nice to shoot and very fast, flat shooting pistol. It got some bad rep due to initial barrel technology (cold welding of recoil lugs to barrel could give up sometimes), but since they started to use one piece cold hammer forged barrels from FB Radom those problems never resurfaced. They also had some reliability problems with 16rd magazines, but going back to 15 rounders solved that. They have some like 75K of them sold to Polish Police, so of course there are complaints and problems from time to time in that huge sample, but generally it is fine pistol. If it works great for you, do not try to force yourself on other platform.

Hey, thank you for your reply. I really like the P2000 as well. I had one set up with the light LEM that was awesome but found that the .40S&W was not optimal for me in that size of gun and with that type of trigger.
Too easy to build bad anticipation habits. If it was a 9MM, I would probably still have it.

Thanks for the heads-up on the 16 round magazines. I have about 30 fifteen rounders and just bought 6 new sixteen rounders. They have been reliable so far, but, I'll test them more. I wonder if the problems arose from the magazine springs wearing out too soon? If not, perhaps they have fixed the problems by now.

I carry the P99AS compacts AIWB and absolutely love how well I shoot the first shot in DA mode (as I carry it). Very accurate, at distance and at speed.

Thanks again for your input, I always get a lot out of your posts.

Doug

LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-24-13, 19:56
P30 came in today, thanks for the T Shirt Grant!

I'm gonna get photo heavy with all the pics I had been wanting to see before I got a P30, so stand by for multiple posts. I won't make a new thread on this as the information regarding the P30 is pretty valuable already in here, and I'm just contributing pictures. If people ACTUALLY use the search function....they will find what they need.

So, I ordered a P30 V1 LE from Grant. The LE version comes with 3 magazines and Meprolight night sites, and Grant's price was killer as well. The P30 came in a cheapish HK hard case. This doesn't bother me as my pistols don't live in the case. Inside the case was the pistol with manual, fired brass, etc. It also included an armorers tool, and Small/Medium/Large sidestraps and side panels (mediums were installed from the factory). The mediums felt okay, but the smalls all around really made this pistol feel like it was made for MY hands.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0381_zps42390fb1.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0381_zps42390fb1.jpg.html)

I immediately went to the range after picking up the P30. I fired 50 rounds of Hornady 135gr Critical Duty, 50 Rounds of Fiocchi 115gr JHP, 50 rounds of Remanufactured 124gr, and 50 rounds of Federal 115gr. The Fiocchi and Hornady fed flawlessly and ejected consistently. The Federal fed flawlessly but had weak ejection, this was to be expected. The 124gr reloads fed flawlessly as well, but a I experienced a stuck case about half way through the box. The slide locked to the rear, however the case did not eject. I ejected the magazine, sent the slide home, and had to tug extremely hard on the slide to get the case out. Of course, the damn case fell way past the firing line and I wasn't able to recover it to examine it. This was cheap remanufactured ammo, and I FULLY believe this was an isolated ammo incident, not a gun problem. It fed the next 20-30 rounds just fine afterwards.

I seemed to be firing the gun low and to the left, however when I did my part it was spot on. I didn't stretch out to any further than 15yds today, but I make quite a few ragged holes at 7 yards. I do not like the Meprolight Night sights and I knew this ahead of time. The white outline on the rear vials bothers me (Ameriglo Operators are my favorites). Recoil felt very smooth and aided in faster follow up shots.

This version of the LEM trigger has a 4.5lb trigger pull. When the gun is cocked, there is a very long pull before you reach "the wall". The trigger pull starts out here:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0395_zps8e72a8f8.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0395_zps8e72a8f8.jpg.html)

A long but smooth and weightless pull brings you to the wall:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0396_zpse3b510ea.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0396_zpse3b510ea.jpg.html)

The wall is a very short length of pull at 4.5lbs:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0397_zps4ce7572f.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0397_zps4ce7572f.jpg.html)

After firing, the trigger has a medium reset that feels foreign no matter what platform you have switched from. When firing, it is almost unnoticeable. The trigger feels good simply because it is light and smooth throughout. If there was any grittiness to the pull, it would be unacceptable.

Continued in the next post.....

LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-24-13, 19:58
The P30 has a "Loaded Chamber Indicator", but it really isn't discernible so I wouldn't put too much stock in it. When empty, the ejector sits flat against the side, when loaded it sticks out ever so slightly and has a bright red visible strip. If you are like me, you do press checks, and luckily the slide movement is so smooth that press checks are easy to do.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0388_zps519b7209.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0388_zps519b7209.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0387_zps3e918bde.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0387_zps3e918bde.jpg.html)

Disassembly is just as simple, if not more simple, than the Glock. After clearing the pistol, line up the square notch in the slide with the left side slide release, then push the slide release out from the right side to the left, exposing a visible red strip. Now simply pull the slide release out til it clicks, pull the trigger, and the slide comes right off. The barrel, and recoil spring come out just like most other semi autos.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0391_zps0e194cbf.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0391_zps0e194cbf.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0392_zps51997e3c.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0392_zps51997e3c.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0394_zpsd668f65d.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0394_zpsd668f65d.jpg.html)

LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-24-13, 20:06
Strangely, one of my favorite things about the P30 is the magazine. I HATE Glock mags, the constant rattle, the stiff springs, and the tough disassembly. The P30 Magazine: doesn't rattle when loaded, is easy to load, and disassembles easily. Simply stick the nose of a round into the the hole in the baseplate, slide off, and voila, you've got your magazines. Yes, they cost a little more than Glock Mags, but I recently bought two new P30 Mags for $76 shipped, which is maybe $5-8 more than it would have cost for two new G19/17 magazines. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0403_zps27527199.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0403_zps27527199.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0405_zps64272278.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0405_zps64272278.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0406_zpsfbe6e787.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0406_zpsfbe6e787.jpg.html)

As far as the controls are concerned, the slide release is simple to operate and for me didn't get in the way of a thumbs forward grip. Maybe its the small thumbs, or maybe its because I was a Sig shooter for years, but I had no issues with it. Surprisingly, I really like the mag release paddles. A simple flick of my trigger finger on the paddles and my mag drops free. It almost feels more natural than the standard mag release button on the glock. The pic rail allows the mounting of any accessory, but with it being so short, most lights will hang off the end. The SF X300 with a universal attachment fits the P30, but you will need to press hard on it in order to get the light to click with the pistol's rail. The light will have a considerable amount of material hanging off the front of the pistol, but nothing that affects function.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0399_zpsf44b1232.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0399_zpsf44b1232.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0400_zps24811d17.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0400_zps24811d17.jpg.html)

Overall, this is a great pistol so far. I still need to pick up a duty holster for it, but can't decide between the Garret Auto Hood or the Safariland ALS. The magazines fit just fine in my Safariland Glock leather gear though. IS it worth $1000, I don't know. But Ive never had a pistol fit my hands like this before, so time will only tell.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0418_zps0c77351f.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0418_zps0c77351f.jpg.html)

TElmer2
09-24-13, 20:23
I am a huge fan and semi-recent convert(from Glock) to the HK P30 platform. I have been shooting mine for almost a year in the LEM V1 format. Unfortunately due to the ammo drought I have only put about 4,100rds through it over the last 9 months.

My impressions have been more than favorable as out of the box I was much more accurate with the gun. Like most, it did take some getting used to with the reset; after the initial change I was shooting just as fast splits with several speed drills. I do not believe that this trigger is like speaking Japanese as so many like to claim.

Like Grant said, if you know how to shoot and control a trigger this is one of the best "out of the box" guns out there. The only thing I have done to mine is put on the small back strap and added a heavy trigger return spring which helped with a more positive reset.

montrala
09-25-13, 06:21
...

Nice review. Problems with hitting low left comes from LEM learning curve. Really long pre-travel induces jerking even for experienced shooters. V4.1 with shorter pre-travel is little better in that department. Anyway, this is something that takes some training. Some shooters (including me) found out that increasing trigger weight a little, by means of heavy trigger return spring can also reduce this problem, while giving more positive reset on fast shooting.

Do not loose hope, until you make yourself account on HKPro, you still can slip from HK bug claws :ph34r:

Softbatch
09-25-13, 10:09
I've got a P30 V2 modded to the TGS trigger. My only issue has been that the slide won't lock on the last round when I'm using Winchester Ranger +P+ 124gr. It happens with two different shooters and we've checked to ensure we're not hitting the slide lock.

awmp
10-10-13, 11:10
I have been thinking about getting a P30 but would have to be via gunbroker or other means as I have not been able to find one locally, but I have several questions for P30 owners.

Why did you get a P30?

Problems carry it CCW? Holster available?

Extra magazines an issue? Finding?

Trigger? I hear about how bad it is, thoughts?

Size? Compared to a Glock 19 or Glock 17?

I carry a Glock 19 or Wilson 1911 CCW most of the time and very curious about the P30.

Any and all you can tell me would be helpful, thanks in advance.

RHINOWSO
10-10-13, 11:40
Why did you get a P30? I liked the grip and thought it was worth a try

Problems carry it CCW? Holster available? I don't regularly CCW it, only to and from the range in a custom RCS OWB holster

Extra magazines an issue? Finding? Not when I bought mine about 2.5 years ago. They were hard to get during the gun rush but seem to be more available now

Trigger? I hear about how bad it is, thoughts? Mine is light LEM, also got GGI reduced reset, but I shot it as stock light LEM and its a good trigger

Size? Compared to a Glock 19 or Glock 17? Glock 19 in length, but between the two in height

I carry a Glock 19 or Wilson 1911 CCW most of the time and very curious about the P30.

Any and all you can tell me would be helpful, thanks in advance. Probably the most ergonomic pistol I've ever shot, feels like it's glued to your hand even when it's sweaty, etc. As accurate and reliable as most modern quality handguns. My opinions / observations in bold.

SPQR476
10-10-13, 11:58
Mine in bold


I have been thinking about getting a P30 but would have to be via gunbroker or other means as I have not been able to find one locally, but I have several questions for P30 owners.

Why did you get a P30? Looking for out of the box GTG option and curious.

Problems carry it CCW? Holster available? Zero issues, wearing it right now AIWB (P30L v1) in Dale Fricke Zack. I wear it avg 14-18hrs a day, every day. Also use Dale Fricke Archangel. Hides just as easy as my G19 with 17-length bbl. Grip angle and rounded butt makes it hide just as easy as my 19 on the belt line.

Extra magazines an issue? Finding? $32 all day long at HKSpecialist and others.

Trigger? I hear about how bad it is, thoughts? The v1 LEM is actually better than my glock triggers wrt a predictable "break" as long as you can manage the reset. It doesn't slow me down at all with stock reset. My Glock triggers are lighter by a bit, and of course, reset is far shorter

Size? Compared to a Glock 19 or Glock 17? P30 L is between a G19 and G17 in both length and height.

I carry a Glock 19 or Wilson 1911 CCW most of the time and very curious about the P30.

Any and all you can tell me would be helpful, thanks in advance.

warpedcamshaft
10-10-13, 12:19
I started a thread about a few polymer pistols that may help:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=135811

The thread includes some good pictures for size comparison.

warpedcamshaft
10-10-13, 12:31
The v1 LEM is actually better than my glock triggers wrt a predictable "break" as long as you can manage the reset. It doesn't slow me down at all with stock reset. My Glock triggers are lighter by a bit, and of course, reset is far shorter

Quick question: Do you prep the trigger on the P30, and then press through? (As opposed to rolling through the entire trigger press with one continuous press.)

SPQR476
10-10-13, 14:44
Quick question: Do you prep the trigger on the P30, and then press through? (As opposed to rolling through the entire trigger press with one continuous press.)

I treat it just like a Glock or a 2-stage rifle trigger. In fact, it's almost exactly like a 2-stage rifle trigger. Terminology may differ here, but I prep to the wall until I want to shoot faster than that allows, and then I pull through smoothly after I reach the "speed limit" of "prepping".

Granted, the whole "prepping" thing is probably overstated...I probably more correctly recognize what phase of the trigger pull I'm in and understand when the shot is close to breaking based on that feedback--and make the tiny gear change to keep from messing up my sight picture at that wall. I'm looking at the aiming solution and keeping or getting that where it needs to be when the shot breaks. This all happens pretty doggone fast, and if I hadn't see a little "hitch" in my trigger finger "giddyup" on high speed, I'd say it was all in my head.

Inside 5 yards or so at "ludicrous" speed, it's more of a straight through pull.

The key for me is keeping the finger in contact with the trigger throughout the sequence, and not coming off so as to have to "slap". That may work for some, but slapping doesn't work for me, and seems inefficient.

warpedcamshaft
10-10-13, 15:25
Thanks a bunch. Very good description, and I appreciate your input greatly.

og556
10-10-13, 16:41
Duane,

I agree with you 100% on the V1 LEM trigger on the P30 being like a 2 stage.

It took me some time and practice to become proficient with the two stage trigger after shooting single stage USGI triggers for so long.

Now I am just as fast but more accurate with two stage triggers like the Geissele triggers.

I do not prep or ride the reset like a Glock I just let it out and follow through without slapping and it works for me. Hammer and controlled pairs are no problem.

I have a p30l light LEM V1 heading to me soon. I'm really tempted to send it into gray guns but I'm also wondering how ill do with the V1 LEM as is.

The Dumb Gun Collector
10-12-13, 00:56
Why did you get a P30?

HK is probably the best all-around firearms manufacturer in the world. If they put something out, it is well thought-out and almost certainly manufactured to the highest standards in the industry.

Problems carry it CCW? Holster available?

Same as any mid/full size autoloader. Holsters available from all the usual outlets. You probably won't find any crap holsters for it like you might be tempted to buy for lesser guns.

Extra magazines an issue? Finding?

None. Top quality.

Trigger? I hear about how bad it is, thoughts?

Excellent trigger on the LEM. The double action trigger on the DA/SA is poor, but manageable. The single action is decent. It is different. A lot of folks interpret whatever they are used to as "correct" and fault other guns for not being what they already have
.
Size? Compared to a Glock 19 or Glock 17?

In between. Superior ergonomics and reliability. Not a crapshoot like current gen Glocks..

LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-12-13, 01:12
I have been thinking about getting a P30 but would have to be via gunbroker or other means as I have not been able to find one locally, but I have several questions for P30 owners.

Why did you get a P30?
Ergonomics, aesthetics, renowned reliability, seemingly declining quality of other service pistols on the market.

Problems carry it CCW? Holster available?
Its a big gun, so not my cup of tea for CCW as I carry a Shield in an Incog. The G19 carries better IMO. Holster availability is scarce, but thats because its my duty pistol and there is only one Level III holster made for it.


Extra magazines an issue? Finding?
Mine came with 3, and I bought a few more from HKspecialist.com for $33 a piece. They can be found online just about all the time, but prices widely vary ($30 to 55). Great mags though, much better than the Glock Mag.


Trigger? I hear about how bad it is, thoughts?
Its not too bad, but it takes a lot of practice to get used to. I have the V1 or Light LEM, so other than the long reset its pretty similar to other triggers out there.


Size? Compared to a Glock 19 or Glock 17?
Think the slide length of the 19 with the grip length of the 17.

I carry a Glock 19 or Wilson 1911 CCW most of the time and very curious about the P30.

Any and all you can tell me would be helpful, thanks in advance.
My replies in red. Built like a tank, accurate gun, but most important for me is that it truly fits the shape of my hand. I'd get the V1 if possible.

I'm already looking for a P30L V1 for my dedicated light gun as the X300 hangs off the end of the P30 and gets all gunked up when shooting.

Hmac
10-12-13, 02:15
I don't mean to derail, but OP, have you given any consideration to the Walther PPQ? Certainly the P30 is an excellent pistol, but if you're having trouble finding it, the PPQ might be worth a look.

MountainRaven
10-12-13, 13:53
Why did you get a P30?

I don't like the M&P (except in 45). And the Glock has developed an unsavory reputation. And I wanted a gun good to go out of the box.

On top of that, both of my roommates own H&Ks, and I like to have magazine commonality with at least one of them. (Their pistols are an HK45 and a P30.)

Problems carry it CCW? Holster available?

Nope. No problems. Only a trouble if you're buying one as a duty weapon.

Extra magazines an issue? Finding?

They can be, at times, but not always.

Trigger? I hear about how bad it is, thoughts?

The double-action is horrid. I like the LEM, though.

Size? Compared to a Glock 19 or Glock 17?

The P30L is about on par with a G17 in overall dimensions. So it's still smaller than a full-size 1911.

For me, the P30L is The One Pistol.

awmp
10-13-13, 22:32
Been tough enough to find a P30 just to put my hands on , I have not seen a PPQ in person to be honest.


I don't mean to derail, but OP, have you given any consideration to the Walther PPQ? Certainly the P30 is an excellent pistol, but if you're having trouble finding it, the PPQ might be worth a look.

Hmac
10-14-13, 06:16
Been tough enough to find a P30 just to put my hands on , I have not seen a PPQ in person to be honest.

Just a suggestion. It's a remarkable pistol with generally better availability. Shooting it allowed me to abandon my own quest for a P30. Now I'm trying to find a second one with the paddle magazine release.

awmp
10-14-13, 06:32
Good stuff thanks


I started a thread about a few polymer pistols that may help:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=135811

The thread includes some good pictures for size comparison.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-14-13, 06:52
A very good thread on the P30 and why people chose it:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=138319

Army Chief
10-14-13, 06:58
Great gun, and likely an easy choice, were it not for the PPQ. I just have a hard time justifying the much-costlier P30 when the PPQ offers comparable quality and refinement, near-identical ergonomics and a superior trigger for a much more reasonable outlay.

AC

awmp
10-14-13, 07:09
Thanks for the link, more good information


A very good thread on the P30 and why people chose it:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=138319

JSantoro
10-14-13, 09:32
Merged.

brickboy240
10-14-13, 09:48
When the striker fired P-30 comes out...it will probably rule the roost.

Until then, the d/a-s/a is so so and the LEM trigger is just weird to many of us.

Bring on the striker fired P-30....it might make me finally leave the Glock platform.

Until then....the G19 and G17 are staying and I see no reason to go to the P-30.

If you like it...great...in its current form...it is just not for me, thank you.

-brickboy240

Pappabear
10-14-13, 11:26
It's a 9 mm in a league of its own.
Only thing that has not been mentioned Worth considering . I bought a shortened mag release. The mag release is easy to ride causing SLIDE to not lock back. I bought a short slide release from HK PARTS.

azngotskills
10-14-13, 19:55
Been looking to pick up a HK P30 as well but trying to decided between the different versions and if I want the P30 or P30L. I have had a G19 Gen4 and a M&P9 but never really loved either one. The M&P9 was close but the feel in the hand wasnt optimal.

Hootiewho
11-10-13, 07:32
A P30 has been on my hip nearly everyday for the last 5 years. I used a Springer Pro for a brief bit, but I am sold on the P30. I carry mine for patrol & as a CCW. I own several, usually carry the P30L with SF X300U on duty & P30 concealed. All are set up with the TLG LEM. If you hate a 2-stage trigger I could see having a problem with the LEM. The 2-stage trigger is about as close to a good description of the LEM as I can think of. I run my P30 the same way I would a 2 stage AR trigger. On a snap shot or press out I pull straight through, but when being precise I take it up to the "wall" and break the shot just like a single stage. Unless something Uber better comes out I see no reason to even fool with another pistol. For my use, the P30/P2000/P2000sk has me covered.

I took a P30 mag & left it outside this past summer as we had aton of rain. It did rust a little, but not near what I expected and is still functional. The mags are what a pistol mag should be. I have abused the hell out of my training mags & they are still running strong. The followers do get chewed up a bit, but I have never had it cause any feeding issues. There are many small things on the P30 that make it superior to Glocks. I know folks will argue that, but it is true. Thee ejection port gives more than ample clearance vs the G17/19. The ejector impacts further out on the case rim with the P30, giving more leverage. The Glock ejector hits right near the primer. If you have both, take a sharpie to a few case rims & manually eject them firmly and observe the ejector marks. The P30 barrel hood has a ramp to it vs the glock. This allows the case to sit in nearly the same spot in respect to the extractor where with the glock, the further the slide travels rearward, the more the case is edged lower on the extractor. I could go on & on, but you get the point. Look at the muzzle end machining on the slide of a glock vs P30. The P30 has a nice offset bored channel for the barrel to ride in during cycling to reduce friction vs the glock. I firmly believe the P30 to be more intrinsically accurate vs the Glock & esp the M&P. All mine shoot Fed HST 124 gr +P & Gold Dot 124 gr +P very accurately. The 147 HST & Gold Dot were my go-to loads for a while as they are also very accurate, but I made the switch to 124 a year ago. I have a 200 yd range at my house and found that at 100 & 200 yards the 124 gr stuff shot much better than 147. For ball, the mil spec 124 gr stuff shoots great, as well as Speer Lawman 124gr. This gun really likes hotter ammo.

A few negatives though;

as the round count increases the right side slide lock lever will loosen up a bit. This will cause a slight rattle with walking. I've only noticed it with a duty belt & my Raven IWB holster. It's no big deal, just something I have noticed. My leather holsters do not allow it to rattle. It still functions perfectly fine though.

Stock sights blow. I like the Heinies, but luckily now there are other aftermarket options.

Duty holster selection blows. When I got mine, the only option was a 6280 for a P30L with light. I still run that holster. I would happily next day my left nut to ANYONE at Safariland to make a ALS for the P30/P30L with SF light.

The pistol is not RDS friendly. Sucks cause I really like the RDS on a pistol.

Some find the slide stop too long. I use the method Vickers taught me to release the slide (weak side thumb). The smaller slide stop would be perfectly fine with me, but if you use your firing hand to drop the slide, the normal length slide stop is great. I've had some LE training where we simulated a non-functional limb and doing a reload. The stock slidelock really shines here, with either hand. I was so much faster getting rounds back on target vs the other guys on the line with Glocks who had to rack the slide off their belt.

A brand new P30, esp a P30L usually needs a bit of a break in. Not much, just a couple hundred rounds of hot 9mm. New shooters sometimes end up cursing the P30 as with it being brand new combined with any amount of limp wristing will cause feed problems the first couple hundred rounds. After that they almost always run with boring reliability. I love being able to make the grip smaller for a gun I'll mostly be shooting with gloves on. The LEM trigger & large trigger guard are also very glove friendly. Also, if I get in a scuffle on pavement or any rough hard surface, the grip is not trashed. A new grip insert is a phone call away.

I do catch a ton of shit around my area because #1, this is Glock country where I live. M&P's are also popular, but in LE Glocks rule the roost & 2.) I'm running 9mm. Around my area, if you don't run a .40 or better yet a 45 ACP on duty you ain't shit. To hear others talk I'm in the same league as someone running a 22LR. Ofcourse that talk usually goes away once we go to the range.

So if you want a damn near bomb proof fighting pistol and don't like getting hit in the forehead with brass and can tolerate or like a 2 stage trigger give the LEM P30 a hard look.

Pilot1
11-10-13, 07:39
I made the mistake of shooting a friend's P30 next to my HK P7M8 at my gun club recently. The single action trigger pre-travel really bothered me, especially after shooting the single action only P7. It was night, and day, but I suspect with practice it is something one can get used to if you like other aspects of the gun. It is a quality pistol for sure.

Kevin P
11-11-13, 10:15
So if you want a damn near bomb proof fighting pistol and don't like getting hit in the forehead with brass and can tolerate or like a 2 stage trigger give the LEM P30 a hard look.


+1 very good advice and pretty much covers all areas to those considering the p30.


I am not a LEO, but I think the p30 is the best option out there for a service/carry pistol if you are willing to take the time and get proficient with it.

SPQR476
11-11-13, 10:59
Well, after a month or so, I'm pretty happy with the P30L v1 LEM. Splits are where they need to be. I've conquered getting my thumb out of the way in my grip so the slide locks back every time I run dry. I'm at 1.0 Sec to a 7yd A-zone hit from open carry and 1.2 from concealment. I can run a Todd Green FAST drill in under 4 sec. (Although cold, I'm still more like 4.5-4.9). It's doing what I want it to do, and no drama. It carries and conceals as well as my G19 does. The grip angle and rounded butt allow the longer grip frame to hide as well as the shorter G19. Runs everything I throw at it...cheapo UMC, Magtech, Fed AE, MGB reloads, XTPs, HSTs, +Ps, whatever. My only beef is the fact that the factory night sights register a bit high.

Only issue I've had is that I've got one magazine that right out of the box would hang up when doing a slide lock reload if it has all 15 rounds in it. Only hangs up when using the slide stop/release, and only when full. If I slingshot, it works every time. I do have about 1000 rounds through this without cleaning, so maybe that has something to do with it. Only one magazine does this out of 8. I'll check the feed lip for burrs, but I haven't yet. I just marked it and threw it in the range bag.

RHINOWSO
11-11-13, 11:59
If Glock / striker fired is your cup of tea, rock on. I'm sure I'd be happy with a quality G19 for everything I need.

But I strongly prefer the P30 V1, ergos and trigger pull. Not my daily CCW but it could be, I have a
RCS holster for it and a X5L. My P2000SK is smaller and my preferred CCW, also light LEM.

In the end, chose what works for you. If hammer fired isn't your thing, the P30 probably isn't for you. LEM has a long pull but if you acknowledge that and treat it as a 2-stage it works just fine.

Hootiewho
11-12-13, 05:36
There is another feature on the P30 that is a by product of the long trigger pull. I learned this one day during some weapons retention training. Good, bad or indifferent, it is what it is. This isn't a technique someone taught me, just a feature of the pistol I noticed and took advantage of. I am not advocating anyone hold the pistol in this manner or do this. I would only do it in a struggle. There is so much space behind the trigger, I found I could slip my index finger of the firing hand BEHIND the trigger leaving the pistol inoperable to someone trying to fire it. Now granted if he got leverage my finger may be broken, but I noticed a tremendious increase in my grip on the pistol with my finger there ONLY when someone was trying to get it from my hand and there was no way it would fire.

As far as the grip goes, I have found the smaller panels make it ideal when shooting with gloves. It also helps give you a more positive grip in a retention situation. Being able to customize the grip also allows you to set the pistol up so your finger is in the right position when the trigger breaks. If anyone saw Surf's video on finger position when the trigger breaks you'll know what I am talking about.

arcticlightfighter
11-12-13, 07:09
"I would happily next day my left nut to ANYONE at Safariland to make a ALS for the P30/P30L with SF light." QUOTE

Ill second this. Right now I run my P30 sans light in their excellent duty holsters. Its taking me some time to get used to the LITE LEM after years of GLOCK and M&P Overcoming the reset shooting has been difficult but after I gave up on "staging" the trigger and just pulling straight through, I was good to go.

The mechanical accuracy of this pistol is amazing and it dumps brass in a consistent area with ZERO reliability issues for me other than my own shooter induced malfunction caused by gripping too high on the backstrap on the draw while wearing my NOMEX gloves. This is correctable and I have done it with my GLOCK's in the past.

As far as the perceived superiority of the P30 over the USP series, I agree to an extent. For CC, I prefer the HK USPC. I shoot them as well as my P30 and it conceals better for me. It was also a much more affordable option as a back up/companion piece to my P30.

js213
11-15-13, 06:38
I debated between the Sig P229 and the P30 about 15 months ago. I ended up buying the P229. A friend sold me his "like new" P30 about 8 months ago and I couldn't be happier (still have the P229 as well.)

I don't mind the trigger (mine is a v3), but compared to my Sig and M&P, it's my least favorite. I'm interested in the v1 LEM. Will HK convert a v3 to a v1. As far as I've found it doesn't seem like they want you to do it yourself, but I hadn't seen anything regarding whether they would do it for you.

Pappabear
11-15-13, 07:56
Its my vague understanding that if you have the safety / decocker lever, they won't because it leaves a hole where the safety was. It can be done. I have the P30L with only decocker, but Im not sold on the LEM story. People love them, just not me.

js213
11-18-13, 06:37
Thanks for the info. Mine doesn't have a safety. Might have to contact HK and see if they're switch it.

Psalms144.1
11-18-13, 09:33
JS213 - HK USA will NOT convert any P30 from DA/SA to LEM or vice-versa. According to them, the trigger systems are not interchangeable. Plenty of folks do it on their own, but doing so voids the warranty on your pistol.

arcticlightfighter
11-18-13, 10:43
JS213 - HK USA will NOT convert any P30 from DA/SA to LEM or vice-versa. According to them, the trigger systems are not interchangeable. Plenty of folks do it on their own, but doing so voids the warranty on your pistol.

They told me that my factory LEM/LITE cannot be converted due to the frame for the factory LEM's not being able to accommodate the necessary parts FYI.

Im warming up to the LEM. All of my other HK's are DA/SA so Im on the fence if I should convert them to LEM as well (45c and USP's)

Dos Cylindros
11-18-13, 12:46
This is a great thread. Recently, I made the decision to go away from the major striker fired offerings for my personally owned guns. When I began shooting as a kid I was raised on 1911's, double action Smith & Wesson revolvers and DA/SA service weapons. My first department issued gun was a Beretta 92 and that's what I went throught the police academy with 16 years ago. That weapon served me very well and I shot it great. Ultimately I was issued a Glock 22 and carried that for about 12 years as a duty weapon. While I liked the Glock, I did have the occasional malfunction. When I came to my current agency I was issued the M&P 40 which I still carry on duty to this day. This gun is fantastic, and has been 100% reliable for many thousands of rounds. For the longest time I never considered or even thought about H&K firearms other than the MP5 is carried at work for a short time. With the recent buzz about Glock and M&P (9mm) accuracy issues I started looking for a bomb proof solution for my personally owned guns, including my off duty gun. Throught this site and others I discovered the H&K guns and their reputation for ruggedness and reliability. After reading ToddG's endurance tests of the P30 and the HK45 I decided to move in that direction.

The first thing I did when making my transition was to take into consideration that I didn't want to be changing back and forth between a DA/SA gun for off duty use and a striker fired gun for duty use and this is when I discovered the LEM trigger. I sampled an LEM P2000 at my LGS and decided that while different than my M&P, it was not so different that it would be a major issue for me. I ended up purchasing a V1 (light LEM) P30 in 9mm and an HK45 with the LEM for my personal guns. The only real difference between the LEM and the striker fired guns is the distance the trigger travels prior to reaching the break. I did not find this or the reset to be an issue for actual defensive style shooting. The triggers are different, but I don't think it poses any real issue in actual real world defensive applications. Are my split times faster with the striker fired guns? Probably, I have never bothered to measure them and probably won't. I do know that I shoot both systems fine and if given the choice I would be carrying an HK as my duty wepon. Unlike a recent Gen4 G23 that was my off duty for a short time, neither the P30 nor the HK45 haven given me the slightest bit of trouble nor do I expect them to.

Obviously price is a concern. The initial outlay for any of the HK guns is going to be "about" twice that of a Glock or M&P. Additionally mags are a bit more expensive (not so bad on the P30) and spare parts are not as widely available or cheap. Detail stripping and DIY gunsmithing are slightly more challenging and complicated with the HK guns, but nothing compared to actually replacing parts on a 1911 where hand fitting is the order of the day. I for one am a VERY satisfied HK user now, and I don't see myself going back to striker fired platforms for my personal use anytime soon. I do realize that I am causing myself to learn and know two different trigger systems, along with a new manual of arms but this is a sacrafice that I am willing to make for what I percieve to be the superior ergonimics, reliability and build quality of HK pistols as compared to other modern service weapons. It's my understanding that HK is set to release some new stuff at S.H.O.T. so perhaps a striker fired HK is in the works. This might make me take a look at things, but I'm not sure.

js213
11-19-13, 01:07
JS213 - HK USA will NOT convert any P30 from DA/SA to LEM or vice-versa. According to them, the trigger systems are not interchangeable. Plenty of folks do it on their own, but doing so voids the warranty on your pistol.

That's really too bad. I guess I'll just leave it alone for now.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-19-13, 14:51
For those making the switch from a G19, heres a photo comparison:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0366_zps951c7d4f.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0366_zps951c7d4f.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0367_zps6514b023.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0367_zps6514b023.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0369_zps3ac3c5f3.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0369_zps3ac3c5f3.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0373_zpsca9c49f9.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0373_zpsca9c49f9.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Pistols/DSC_0379_zps5c3667fd.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/Pistols/DSC_0379_zps5c3667fd.jpg.html)

Five_Point_Five_Six
11-20-13, 07:12
For those making the switch from a G19, heres a photo comparison:

Great comparison pics. So would you mimic what others have said that the P30 carries pretty much the same as a G19?

LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-20-13, 16:44
Great comparison pics. So would you mimic what others have said that the P30 carries pretty much the same as a G19?
I dont CC my P30, but as a duty pistol it carries alot like a G19. With that said, I never really noticed a difference between my 17 and 19 as I use a low ride mount anyways. I'm sure the P30 conceals very well though, just not as well as my Shield.

Patriot328
11-21-13, 00:12
Great comparison pics. So would you mimic what others have said that the P30 carries pretty much the same as a G19?

I carry my P30 in a Comp-Tac MTAC holster and it conceals very well. I do wear some kind of undershirt however. The abrasive grip against your skin makes it almost a necessity.

Five_Point_Five_Six
11-21-13, 07:26
I carry my P30 in a Comp-Tac MTAC holster and it conceals very well. I do wear some kind of undershirt however. The abrasive grip against your skin makes it almost a necessity.

That's the one thing that is making the decision between the P30 and P2000 hard to make. I don't do undershirts in the summer.

Patriot328
11-21-13, 07:45
That's the one thing that is making the decision between the P30 and P2000 hard to make. I don't do undershirts in the summer.


Then in my "I'm not an expert but I do carry this" opinion, you aren't going to like the P30. One CAN wear it against bare skin and I do it occasionally, but it definitely will irritate quite a bit if done all day everyday for weeks or months on end.

In the summer I wear button down shirt over some kind if tshirt most of the time so it's not a prob. Either that or I'll carry an SW MP9c.

Defaultmp3
11-21-13, 08:19
That's the one thing that is making the decision between the P30 and P2000 hard to make. I don't do undershirts in the summer.

You could always just sand down the grip panels, no? If you screw it up, just buy a new panel.

Psalms144.1
11-21-13, 08:58
That's the one thing that is making the decision between the P30 and P2000 hard to make. I don't do undershirts in the summer.I have both the P30 and P2000. I find the P2000 SIGNIFICANTLY easier to conceal than the P30, and easier overall to hide than the G19. For me, concealing the P30 is equivalent, in terms of effort, to concealing a G17/22.

The P30's stippling is aggressive (it leaves noticeable wear on the inside of my covering garments when I carry it), and might be "ouchy" on bare skin.

Again, of the two pistols, I find the P2000 to be an overall superior pistol, and think the LEM on the P2000 cleans up much nicer than the P30 as well.

Regards,

Kevin

Five_Point_Five_Six
11-21-13, 16:43
You could always just sand down the grip panels, no? If you screw it up, just buy a new panel.

Rubber talon grips are also an option I guess.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

YVK
11-21-13, 16:46
Then in my "I'm not an expert but I do carry this" opinion, you aren't going to like the P30. One CAN wear it against bare skin and I do it occasionally, but it definitely will irritate quite a bit if done all day everyday for weeks or months on end.


There is very little definite stuff in life. I'd carried a P30 for two years in appendix position and, for the most part, without any undershirts. I carry every day, all day long. No problems, no skin grafts, not even a rash. I know others who haven't had any issues either.

Omega Man
11-22-13, 02:41
I have both the P30 and P2000. I find the P2000 SIGNIFICANTLY easier to conceal than the P30, and easier overall to hide than the G19. For me, concealing the P30 is equivalent, in terms of effort, to concealing a G17/22.

The P30's stippling is aggressive (it leaves noticeable wear on the inside of my covering garments when I carry it), and might be "ouchy" on bare skin.

Again, of the two pistols, I find the P2000 to be an overall superior pistol, and think the LEM on the P2000 cleans up much nicer than the P30 as well.

Regards,

Kevin

The P2000 LEM "cleans up" better than the P30? What does this mean?

Psalms144.1
11-22-13, 09:50
With judicious swapping of springs, the P2000 and P30 can both be tweaked from their original factory LEM configuration to V1 "Light" LEM or V4 "Todd Green" LEM. In either configuration, I find the P2000's trigger to have less of a pronounced "break" at the end of the take up, and a slightly shorter reset. To me, these minor but noticeable differences make the P2000 shoot just as accurately, and just as fast as the P30, despite the former's shorter grip, barrel and sight radius.

YMMV, but that's my experience. In fact, I simply don't carry the P30 at all, since except for dropping two rounds of capacity, the P2000 does everything I need in a defensive pistol as well or better than the P30 - in a package that's easier for me to conceal all the time.

Regards,

Kevin

SPQR476
04-03-14, 00:15
Thought I'd add an update. I've been carrying and shooting the P30L for a few months now. It carries well, it's a beautiful piece, and I love the light LEM trigger. I've only shot about 3k rounds in this pistol in that time frame, but I shot no other semi auto handguns during that time. On a square range I can pretty much match my performance level with a Glock for split times, it's extremely accurate, and my reloads are faster, but barely--unless my grip is compromised and I prevent slide lock on those long levers. What I've noticed, though, is that it's harder to track through recoil for me...whether from bore axis or the fact that I have to open up my grip wrt my firing hand thumb, or mental shortfalls on my part. Performance-wise, this translates to an occasional missed call on where a second or third shot on a target went when the speed is turned on in a multi-target problem. I have shot 3 gun with it, and did fine, but not my best runs on the blaster. After all that said, I still feel really comfortable with the handgun. It has never malfunctioned apart from a couple hung rounds from a mag with a burr on the lips on slide lock reloads. (Easy fix) It feels "right".

However...I'm sitting here wearing a Gen3 G17, and I was just doing a sight swap on my first Gen4 9mm. Perhaps more time would change my mind--a few months is no comparison to 10s of thousands of rounds through Glocks--but I'm personally still just a bit more comfortable with the Glock platform. The sights are just "there" when I bring it up and through a course of fire, even after months of dancing with another lady. And I miss my SIRT pistol. :-) In reality, when shot side by side, I'm indeed generally faster in multi-target problems with the Glock, but only by barely consequential increments, and if all I could shoot for the rest of my days was a P30, I would be fine with that. We'll see how the new Gen 4 Glocks treat me. Maybe I'll be back to German, but I'm gonna play with some more Austrian for a spell as long as they don't frustrate me with BTF and inline stovepipes.

GJM
04-03-14, 07:28
Your experience, more or less, tracks with my experience with the P30, and that of many of my friends. Love the quality, ergonomics, accuracy and reliability of the P30, but just shoot a Glock better. I have spent time with other stuff, including HK, Sig and Beretta but always kept coming back to the Glock for pure performance. I started shooting a CZ SP01 Shadow and companion carry P01 in January, and it is the first time I have shot something better than a Glock across the board. I am not selling my Glock pistols, but I am drinking the CZ, or "Czechnology" kool-aide full on now -- the most fun I have had shooting in years.

montrala
04-03-14, 08:06
In my experience main problem with going from Glock to other platforms (or from other platforms to Glock) is difference in grip angle. With muscle memory build for Glock, going to HK results in sinking front sight down on presentation and problem with tracking. For going other way round (from HK and 1911 to Glock) problem is with getting front sight to high at presentation and also some tracking problems on fast shooting.

In the end it is again as simple, as fact that we are best in using equipment that we are accustomed to. Better is enemy of good.

YVK
04-03-14, 08:35
Yup, it is consistent for many shooters, the presentation gets messed up with back and forth changes.

I have the same experience with HK vs G. I can probably match my performances, but it takes more work with the german. Considering that mine is a GGI gun, my experience is probably less relevant in a general comparison.

GJM
04-03-14, 08:59
I think grip angle is just a transition issue, but doesn't explain the difference in shootability between a Glock and P30. If anything, the Glock grip angle is unnatural. The reason the Glock can be shot better is related to a combination of trigger and how the gun recoils/ tracks.