View Full Version : Salient G19 Review.
I have not read too many reviews on Salient firearms and people continue to ask me my impressions on mine so I figured I would type one up on here for use. I will do my best to be non partial and honest, I can be pretty nit picky especially a firearm of this calibre.
I ordered my pistol in late May and it took approx 4 months to receive, they were having issues locating G19 didn't bother me much. I have spoke to them quite a few times on the phone and they have been nothing more than absolutely pleasant.
After ordering the firearm I had a bit of buyers remorse and was kicking my self in the butt while I waited for it. I have to say I have never liked Glocks at all and my main stay has been M&P pistols and 1911's. The experience I have had with Glocks has never been pleasant I shot them well just seemed to take a bit more effort over my M&Ps when it came time for a carry gun I was shooting a friends M&P 9c and HATED the fact that with out the extended base plate my pinky hung off while running the gun hard I would pinch my pinky between the mag and pistol. (I know, I know everyone will say training will solve that! guess what I don't care). So I was on the search for a perfect sized pistol and the most hated firearm I could think of was the perfect match the G19, but I couldn't stand anything about the gun except the size! This is where Salient came in.
The fit and finish of the pistol are superb the TiN coating really makes the Glock a good looking firearm it also adds a texture that makes the manipulation of the slide a bit easier compared to the factory slide and the improved cocking serrations are a great addition.
I had them remove the finger grooves and do a grip angle mod where they reduce the hump this corrected one of the major issues I had with Glocks from the get go def a must for me. The stippling job is a bit soft but considering it is for carry it's fine.
They replace all of the internals including the guide rod and the pins are all titanium. (cool factor I guess). I have always liked fiber optic front with blacked out rear and the warren tacticals are great!
The claimed balance/flat shooting of the firearm I can confirm to be true I have a built M&P 9L shot them side by side and I was amazed I was actually faster and more accurate with the G19. I don't think I have become a better shooter over night. Others have shot the pistol and were also very impressed to the point they are trying to save up and order one.
Now the discrepancies there was marring on the trigger when it arrived, trigger is not to my expectations it's an improvement but not what I was expecting. The stippling on the back strap that meets my palm is flattening out. I have already spoken with them and the customer service was amazing sent me a shipping label and I have been told it will be dealt with in the utmost of importance. I will say though I have no more feeling of buyers remorse the pistol has made shooting fun again instead of just practice. People have said I could buy X number of Glocks for that well thats great if you like Glocks the way they are I personally could not stand them this has changed my mind, I was pretty set on M&Ps but I may invest more into Glocks now. I would recommend a Salient to others if they asked.
Round count is as such
WWB 600rds 0malf
Tulammo 150rds 1bad primer
Hornandy CD 25 rds 1 FTF ???
The fail to feed with the last round of Hornandy CD, might just dump the rest of the ammo. 775 in two weeks isnt a bad start when I get it back I plan on another 300-400 that weekend I will try and keep this post up to date if some of you would like to see how it holds up!
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad100/MysakUSMC/20130908_174733_zps58187999.jpeg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/MysakUSMC/media/20130908_174733_zps58187999.jpeg.html)
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http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad100/MysakUSMC/20130908_174809_zps2bede914.jpeg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/MysakUSMC/media/20130908_174809_zps2bede914.jpeg.html)
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad100/MysakUSMC/20130908_174756_zps40f1bf21.jpeg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/MysakUSMC/media/20130908_174756_zps40f1bf21.jpeg.html)
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad100/MysakUSMC/20130908_174840_zps671f5b90.jpeg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/MysakUSMC/media/20130908_174840_zps671f5b90.jpeg.html)
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad100/MysakUSMC/20130908_174741_zps4e1a4c45.jpeg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/MysakUSMC/media/20130908_174741_zps4e1a4c45.jpeg.html)
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad100/MysakUSMC/20130908_174847_zpsc28f0e55.jpeg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/MysakUSMC/media/20130908_174847_zpsc28f0e55.jpeg.html)
I remember the first Salient Glocks I ever saw. Always thought they were über cool but would never pay what they charge. I'd much rather buy 3-4 stock Glocks and shoot the piss out of them. I am interested in how this thing runs for you so please post updates. Is the ejection strong and consistent? What extractor/ejector combo?And don't be afraid of a little punctuation.
Curious, how does the gun shoot flatter?
Is the barrel fitted?
C4
The extraction and ejection are good, the ejector is #336 I'm not too sure about the extractor. I too plan on shooting the piss and feces out of it trying for 3-400 a week buying factory ammo starts adding up. Thanks for the constructive criticism I was in a rush so I apologize.
My understanding it is a mixture of the slide lightening and adjusting weight of the recoil spring. When I use the term "flatter" I mean in the way of muzzle flip and softer felt recoil.
Edit: No I am using the factory barrel it just has TiN coating.
theblackknight
09-08-13, 22:18
What exactly about these guns made you want one?
What exactly about these guns made you want one?
Its Tier 1..loser....
To the OP, have you chronod the barrel next to a standard nitrided or melonited barrel? I am wondering if there is any difference in muzzle velocity in TIN coated barrels.
The gold barrel bro I can't help myself around bling.
lol^ Although this is a Tier 2, sorry I don't have access to chrono that would be interesting I'll see if I can get my hands on one and do a little side by side comparison.
Edit: I dig the dynamic pie concept vids BTW.
theblackknight
09-09-13, 07:14
The gold barrel bro I can't help myself around bling.
You should get them to one off you a front sight with a tritium powered diamond on the front sight. Bling to the max AND diamond is way tougher them fibers or a brass bead.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
Lol^ ill see if that can be arranged!
On a serious note I own a bunch of guns and there are certain things I like on a pistol, Salient just so happened to offer everything I wanted in a G19 in one convenient package.
Curious, how does the gun shoot flatter?
C4
Having shot several guns with lightened slides, the recoil impulse is faster and with less reciprocating mass, the front sight lifts off the target less.
Timing and lockup are critical items and without proper tuning, reliability issues can creep in. Salient is famous for tuning Benelli's and Glocks, so they seem to have it worked out. They are VERY proud of their work though! :)
Having shot several guns with lightened slides, the recoil impulse is faster and with less reciprocating mass, the front sight lifts off the target less.
Timing and lockup are critical items and without proper tuning, reliability issues can creep in. Salient is famous for tuning Benelli's and Glocks, so they seem to have it worked out. They are VERY proud of their work though! :)
Yep, am familiar. The problem with doing this is that you have to constantly manage your spring tension. As the spring wears, you can run into malfunctions pretty quick (especially with Glock's).
I think messing with all of this is just fine, but wouldn't use one for a carry gun.
YMMV
C4
Cylinder Head
09-09-13, 11:15
Very cool looking gun, I would like to get my hands on one to shoot it. I can't stop thinking that they just take the gun and make it shoot like a PPQ or a P30.
Yep, am familiar. The problem with doing this is that you have to constantly manage your spring tension. As the spring wears, you can run into malfunctions pretty quick (especially with Glock's).
I think messing with all of this is just fine, but wouldn't use one for a carry gun.
YMMV
C4
Same here.
I can understand your need for concern but only time will tell I'll be at 1k rounds by this weekend and if this track record continues I'll have no woes about carrying this firearm. I see this no different than someone who has a Colt or SA 1911 being built correctly and plenty of people carry such firearms. Except I imagine this being even more reliable.
I can understand your need for concern but only time will tell I'll be at 1k rounds by this weekend and if this track record continues I'll have no woes about carrying this firearm. I see this no different than someone who has a Colt or SA 1911 being built correctly and plenty of people carry such firearms. Except I imagine this being even more reliable.
Honestly, 1K is a low round count. Standard GEN 3 Glock springs are supposed to be changed out at 2K sooooo.
Most people should not be allowed to own a 1911 (FYI). The constant PM's needed to make a 1911 run RELIABLY for high round counts is daunting. That is why most everyone ditched them for a gun that they can treat like their lawn mower.
C4
I am not sure what the Tier 2 package costs (have seen listings at $1800 +).
For me, you are not getting your moneys worth at that price when you can do this:
G3 19 $500
Trijicon HD Sights $120
Stipple $100
Fitted Storm Lake barrel $200
3.5 connector + trigger work $80
That comes out to $1,000 and will out shoot the Salient Arms one.
So you have to ask yourself, what did I get for the extra $800??? Not really sure at this point.
C4
To individuals like ourselves 1k is a low round count to the majority of gun owners it's quite a bit, we agree on the 1911 idea for sure but I am confident this is will meet the reliability that has been known for Glocks.
I can understand your need for concern but only time will tell I'll be at 1k rounds by this weekend and if this track record continues I'll have no woes about carrying this firearm. I see this no different than someone who has a Colt or SA 1911 being built correctly and plenty of people carry such firearms. Except I imagine this being even more reliable.
Please keep us updated on how your pistol is performing at 2,000, 3,000, 10,000 rounds, etc., and what parts you have to replace along the way.
4DAIVI PAI2K5
09-09-13, 13:08
any reason for gen3 over a gen4? Or just what they could find?
I'm in CA and didn't feel like doing a SSE transfer pretty much and with all the grip work I didn't think I'd be gaining much.
To individuals like ourselves 1k is a low round count to the majority of gun owners it's quite a bit, we agree on the 1911 idea for sure but I am confident this is will meet the reliability that has been known for Glocks.
1K is basically two pistol classes in a year. Not a lot (honestly).
Glock has been having some SERIOUS reliability issues over the last year plus. So if anything, you might have even more of a problem around the 2-4k range (when they often seem to develop ejection issues).
Good luck.
C4
Thanks for the heads up ill keep an eye on that.
Are the salient springs commercially available for replacement or are they something proprietary?
If i recall correctly they are commercially available and made by ismi.
Tagged. Interested in long term reliability as well.
So after some searching and talking with others it has been made apparent that the malfunction with the Hornandy ammo was because of bad magazine followers #2183, I'm told Glock is aware of this and will ship me new followers marked 9mm3 and it should rectify the problem!
I am not sure what the Tier 2 package costs (have seen listings at $1800 +).
For me, you are not getting your moneys worth at that price when you can do this:
G3 19 $500
Trijicon HD Sights $120
Stipple $100
Fitted Storm Lake barrel $200
3.5 connector + trigger work $80
That comes out to $1,000 and will out shoot the Salient Arms one.
So you have to ask yourself, what did I get for the extra $800??? Not really sure at this point.
C4
Grant
If you start offering this complete package, I'll buy one from you. :)
Grant
If you start offering this complete package, I'll buy one from you. :)
I have the parts, the guns and the SL barrels for Glocks. Don't tempt me. :D
C4
That's a nice package, I have shot Glocks with that exact work done but there is little comparison.
1. Glock 500 OTD you either have a hook up or show me where I'll buy several.
2. No one does stipple jobs for 100 bucks let alone remove finger grooves and grip angle mod.
4. You left out the biggest part slide milling and slide lightening. TiN coating of slide and barrel. Plus some.
How could you say that it would out shoot the Salient if you have never fired one to begin?
But if you get me a Glock with that package 1000 OTD I'd be very interested in picking one up!
That's a nice package, I have shot Glocks with that exact work done but there is little comparison.
Really? From us?? ;)
1. Glock 500 OTD you either have a hook up or show me where I'll buy several.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=G319-BLK
2. No one does stipple jobs for 100 bucks let alone remove finger grooves and grip angle mod.
I have someone in my shop that would be glad to do it for $100. You are right though, $150-185 is more the norm.
https://www.glockworx.com/grip_pr-3717.aspx
4. You left out the biggest part slide milling and slide lightening. TiN coating of slide and barrel. Plus some.
If that is important to you. Personally, I do not want something GOLD on my gun, and a companies BIG LETTERING all over my Glock. By doing the slide milling you are also adding a lot of complexity and possible issues with the gun. Pass on that.
How could you say that it would out shoot the Salient if you have never fired one to begin?
Easy. You aren't getting a fitted barrel. My G19 with a fitted barrel is capable of shooting .5" groups at 25yds!
But if you get me a Glock with that package 1000 OTD I'd be very interested in picking one up!
That is easy (as all those prices are simply retail). I could also hire a local machine shop to cut up your slide for little money as well. :D
C4
1. Glock 500 OTD you either have a hook up or show me where I'll buy several.
2. No one does stipple jobs for 100 bucks let alone remove finger grooves and grip angle mod.
4. You left out the biggest part slide milling and slide lightening. TiN coating of slide and barrel. Plus some.
Personally I don't think they're worth the money at all. Not even close....
With a GSSF membership or Armorer's Cert you buy GLOCKS for well under $500, even under $400. Cold Bore can do a 360* stipple job and remove the finger groves for $85 and his grip work is better. The TiN on the barrel could be done for less than $90 and the slide milling is worth about $200 at best.
I know a smith that used to work there and had been by their shop in Oxnard a couple of times, nothing to rave about and overpriced.
theblackknight
09-10-13, 12:49
I personally asked salient on their FB what exactly constituted the price of their guns.I was non-confrontational(rare LOL) .They answered by deleting my questions. They did the same to others. This is the equivalent of donning your own kick me sign. My family has been in machining for a little bit including ownership, and I know a rough # of what the slide work would be. I do just hope that I'm missing something.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
I personally asked salient on their FB what exactly constituted the price of their guns.I was non-confrontational(rare LOL) .They answered by deleting my questions. They did the same to others. This is the equivalent of donning your own kick me sign. My family has been in machining for a little bit including ownership, and I know a rough # of what the slide work would be. I do just hope that I'm missing something.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
At the price they are charging, they really need to offer a fitted barrel IMHO.
C4
Cylinder Head
09-10-13, 15:24
I personally asked salient on their FB what exactly constituted the price of their guns.I was non-confrontational(rare LOL) .They answered by deleting my questions. They did the same to others. This is the equivalent of donning your own kick me sign. My family has been in machining for a little bit including ownership, and I know a rough # of what the slide work would be. I do just hope that I'm missing something.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
When a company resorts to the same bullshit as Moms Demand Action on Facebook, I will quickly add them to my list of people I won't buy shit from.
At the price they are charging, they really need to offer a fitted barrel IMHO.
C4
Among other things...like paid tuition for two classes with a reputable instructor.
The guns are freakin over priced, period. I wouldnt pay that kind of money for a gun that MIGHT, key word MIGHT shave off .1 from a split...
I like some of the features on the Salient guns. Their stipple and grip work is different than most others I have seen. I like it. Overall the recut slide and gold barrel look isnt for me and I don't mod the internals of my Glocks so I probably wont own one.
That said I hope the OP enjoys his. Its only money. Its easy to blow $500 on a dinner or drinks in an evening. If a guy wants to fire a couple nights out on an usual variation of a pistol more power to him. Seems to me he had his eyes open going in. The itemized list about how to build something that may be "better" still would not be a Salient Glock. That may mean nothing to certain people but it is the truth. If a dude wants a particular thing who cares how much of his money he spent to buy it?
I like some of the features on the Salient guns. Their stipple and grip work is different than most others I have seen. I like it. Overall the recut slide and gold barrel look isnt for me and I don't mod the internals of my Glocks so I probably wont own one.
That said I hope the OP enjoys his. Its only money. Its easy to blow $500 on a dinner or drinks in an evening. If a guy wants to fire a couple nights out on an usual variation of a pistol more power to him. Seems to me he had his eyes open going in. The itemized list about how to build something that may be "better" still would not be a Salient Glock. That may mean nothing to certain people but it is the truth. If a dude wants a particular thing who cares how much of his money he spent to buy it?
Jcin,
I hear ya and i largely agree BUT...
There IS a problem here, at least from the perspective of this forum (generally speaking).
Results speak and quantifiable evidence is paramount to sharing experience.
Guns dont shoot themselves and the subjective nature of a "shootable" gun is well, unfortunate but its the truth.
What exactly does 1500 bones get you as far as quantifiable, performance based evidence? The gun simply doesnt shoot "better" than anything else on the market and when you break down the modifications, the cost justification just isnt there.
Jcin,
I hear ya and i largely agree BUT...
There IS a problem here, at least from the perspective of this forum (generally speaking).
Results speak and quantifiable evidence is paramount to sharing experience.
Guns dont shoot themselves and the subjective nature of a "shootable" gun is well, unfortunate but its the truth.
What exactly does 1500 bones get you as far as quantifiable, performance based evidence? The gun simply doesnt shoot "better" than anything else on the market and when you break down the modifications, the cost justification just isnt there.
I hear ya and I largely agree but....:)
it is a start if we want to look into certain things that might be beneficial. You know that evidence will always be subjective, even if he posted pre and post El-Pres and Bill Drill results. It will still be a single user data, with gazillion potential biases. However, if enough dudes like OP spend their discretionary income on shit that is so easy to criticize, and then present their results in a convincing way, then maybe we'll move somewhere forward. Alternative is just to keep what we got and try changing nothing - which is OK, I guess.
To make it less abstract: out of everything done to this gun the only thing that interests me is slide lightening. The two most flat, shootable and controllable guns I've shot - Beretta 92 and Glock 34 - both miss big chunks from their slides. I realize that this might be a wrong hypothesis, but aint it interesting to check out? Without dudes like OP it isn't gonna happen, with enough people like him and reasonable reporting we might see other vendors offer this one day at a decent price...
Holy hatefest 2013 lol reminder to self do not post anything out of the ordinary or different the masses will belittle it into dust. Lol jk thats ok I respect everyones opinion and welcome it.
Holy hatefest 2013 lol reminder to self do not post anything out of the ordinary or different the masses will belittle it into dust. Lol jk thats ok I respect everyones opinion and welcome it.
I wouldn't say that. I think being skeptical is a good thing. As someone that turns out custom guns (to include fitting and crowning barrels), I know what kind of money it takes. So when I see off the hook prices, I ask questions.
More power to Salient for getting people to pay those prices! I wish I could justify it. ;)
C4
Well I would say that. I wrote this thread review for individuals to read something possibly interesting or fun, instead of the usual I got this or that thread. Then yourself and others completely thrashed it and tried belittling it by repeatably saying I can't believe anyone would buy that or you should have done this or that.
Skepticism is for a questionable circumstance not when you have the first hand end user speaking their opinion from experience. Then completely disregarding it and playing it off as uniformed and trying to convince others that you know everything about the firearm when you yourself have never touched it.
Retail 101 dictates when talking shop to a potential customer don't crap on them, you don't know what they may have been about to purchase from you.
When you turn out quality and something unique then you can demand more money, obviously "custom" lego guns are a dime a dozen. I found it comical how everyone was so concerned of the price of the firearm when it was never mentioned. The apparent over lecturing about it drives me to think jealousy or dare I say "hating" when I was simply discussing the attributes of the gun.
So personal gain was obviously the intent as every page of the thread has you pushing your product so mission accomplished on your part and I'm sure you don't care as long as the super majority continues to follow suit. You should probably change the name of this forum from m4carbine.net to GRTACTICAL.com/forum, I came to this forum thinking it was filled with unbiased professionals instead it seems to be the run of the mill good ol' boys from the LGS who deem you unfit to be a gun owner if you like anything different than themselves.
None of this is said to be a jab or rude simply an observation from the other side of the fence. So if it is misconstrued as such I apologize. Thank you for taking the time to read this thread.
So simply to see if this forum implodes I'm going to order a Salient carbine and write a review.
Just because this thread has gone in a way you didn't quite expect, don't belittle the forum and/or it's content. It's not a hate fest or jealousy going on here.... it's informed shooters knowing the truth about what it is and telling you so. What's been pointed out simply illustrates Salient's outrageous prices vs what you actually get. SAI themselves can't articulately justify or explain it and run from the chance to do so. As someone who has shot a Tier 1 17... I can tell you without a doubt, I did not think it was worth the money. I would and did put my modded 17 against it and there was no quantifiable gain for me or it's owner. I won't go into what happened after that....
My point exactly if someone disagrees you automatically disregard or say experience shooters when in fact you don't know my exprience and probably don't care with that elitest attitude it doesnt get you far. Not once have I claimed to know more or be more experienced. I didnt belittle anything I simply decided to express myself in the same matter some of the commentors were. I even apologized at the end of the post if it was taken out of context.
Well I would say that. I wrote this thread review for individuals to read something possibly interesting or fun, instead of the usual I got this or that thread. Then yourself and others completely thrashed it and tried belittling it by repeatably saying I can't believe anyone would buy that or you should have done this or that.
That part is true. It is a lot of money for a G19 without a fitted barrel.
Skepticism is for a questionable circumstance not when you have the first hand end user speaking their opinion from experience. Then completely disregarding it and playing it off as uniformed and trying to convince others that you know everything about the firearm when you yourself have never touched it.
This will no doubt upset you, but have to tell the truth. We have no idea what your overall end user experience is. Are you are world class shooter? Do you evaluate a lot of guns? Have you owned a lot of guns and attended a lot of training schools with said gun?
One of my favorite sayings is; "Not all opinions are equal." So people that ARE experienced with type of stuff are going to ask questions.
You are right, I have never touched YOUR gun, but have handled them before and seen people shoot them.
Retail 101 dictates when talking shop to a potential customer don't crap on them, you don't know what they may have been about to purchase from you.
No one took a crap on you. Asking questions or explaining why something is overpriced is actually considered useful.
When you turn out quality and something unique then you can demand more money, obviously "custom" lego guns are a dime a dozen. I found it comical how everyone was so concerned of the price of the firearm when it was never mentioned. The apparent over lecturing about it drives me to think jealousy or dare I say "hating" when I was simply discussing the attributes of the gun.
You are right. Gunsmiths can ask anything they want. I have seen some obscenely over priced 1911's.
At least for me, money is of no issue. I could have 10 of these guns if I so chose and not blink an eye. My guess is that other people in this thread could do the same.
So personal gain was obviously the intent as every page of the thread has you pushing your product so mission accomplished on your part and I'm sure you don't care as long as the super majority continues to follow suit. You should probably change the name of this forum from m4carbine.net to GRTACTICAL.com/forum, I came to this forum thinking it was filled with unbiased professionals instead it seems to be the run of the mill good ol' boys from the LGS who deem you unfit to be a gun owner if you like anything different than themselves.
I am sorry, but I do not mess with custom Glock's. So you are incorrect about me pushing anything.
Everyone likes what they like and if you are happy with your purchase, then that is all that matters (as it is your money).
None of this is said to be a jab or rude simply an observation from the other side of the fence. So if it is misconstrued as such I apologize. Thank you for taking the time to read this thread.
So simply to see if this forum implodes I'm going to order a Salient carbine and write a review.
No offense taken on my part. You on the other hand are bit upset I think. ;)
Please do buy one of their AR's! I would love to see how they fit bolts, time things, where their internals come from, etc.
C4
Gutshot John
09-11-13, 11:51
Just because this thread has gone in a way you didn't quite expect, don't belittle the forum and/or it's content.
Skepticism cuts both ways...
That does not mean that the content you find on this forum shouldn't be examined with as much skepticism as you have for Salient.
He offered a review of a gun that he had already made a choice on, for the benefit of this forum so they could make a more informed choice, and people pretty much ridiculed him.
It's the same for any number of things that people spend their money on. I don't see the point of owning a transferable $20K MP5SD, I'm not sure what that extra $16K is buying you over the SBR version, but that doesn't mean I'm going to take a dump on someone who buys one.
Sometimes people just want something fun and a bit exotic.
Personally I think Salient is pushing the limits of what the Glock can do, no different than any other highly customized gun. What's the big deal?
If he thinks it's worth the price, who is anyone here to tell him he is wrong? It's not like he's spending your money.
This will no doubt upset you, but have to tell the truth. We have no idea what your overall end user experience is. Are you are world class shooter? Do you evaluate a lot of guns? Have you owned a lot of guns and attended a lot of training schools with said guns?
C4
Being a world class shooter is a requirement to post an opinion now? You're one of those?
This has zero importance in this instance. He hasn't recommended that people go buy Salient stuff, he didn't say local PD should employ Salient, or DoD should issue a contract etc. He simply posted an opinion. Sure, I'd wish there was some test numbers, drills, scores, etc. That said, no one who critiqued him posted objective performance data to prove anything otherwise. Examining, seeing other people shoot, or even shooting somebody else's gun without decent test-based eval is just as subjective.
As far as not all opinions being equal, you're right. The only one that matters to me is mine, others are duly noted.
Being a world class shooter is a requirement to post an opinion now? You're one of those?
This has zero importance in this instance. He hasn't recommended that people go buy Salient stuff, he didn't say local PD should employ Salient, or DoD should issue a contract etc. He simply posted an opinion. Sure, I'd wish there was some test numbers, drills, scores, etc. That said, no one who critiqued him posted objective performance data to prove anything otherwise. Examining, seeing other people shoot, or even shooting somebody else's gun without decent test-based eval is just as subjective.
As far as not all opinions being equal, you're right. The only one that matters to me is mine, others are duly noted.
Pretty solid.^^^
One of the earlier posts brought up cost justification, and of course it is relative, in this case to only the OP...I think the OP is still suffering from a little buyers remorse, and got his feelings hurt when people told him he over paid. Maybe he just proud of his purchase, all just normal stuff. I come here because the SME level is high,[ and yes a lot of them do not have that by their screen name], but even very professional forums like this seem to get kind of weird to me.
The only good piece of advice he got was I believe from Grant, in which he told him to enjoy, but stick with factory Glocks for HD/CC...but then it just went south.
I'm just another 40 something, prior service, blue collar, small business owner trying to get by. But I'm smart enough to make sound buying decisions on most anything, and if by chance I'm not, I seek advice from someone smarter than myself. When did men start feeling the need to have their ears tickled about their personal opinions/purchases? The flip-side being, when someone can't own a poor decision, don't be a dick, be helpful.
OP, sorry for getting off topic/ not a personal attack...
My thoughts - I'm very interested in the point Grant made about spring life, reminded me my 34 is in need also. It looks like the parts breakdown shows you over paid. So what. A glock has never been much to look at, but they could back out of the banner action a little. Maybe at 15k you can tell us if the juice was worth your squeezing.:)
My point exactly if someone disagrees you automatically disregard or say experience shooters when in fact you don't know my exprience and probably don't care with that elitest attitude it doesnt get you far. Not once have I claimed to know more or be more experienced. I didnt belittle anything I simply decided to express myself in the same matter some of the commentors were. I even apologized at the end of the post if it was taken out of context.
My reference to "informed shooters", which you interpreted as "experienced shooters", was to the sentiment of this forums members, not your skill set. Elitist attitude huh, that's' laughable. Never, not once did I question your experience level, never even used the word in either of my two posts. You did however question the motives of the information given, which is what I was speaking to. I simply pointed out, as others did, they're overpriced for the end product. How you chose you spend your money is of no concern to me. Rock on bro, if you're happy with the gun... AWESOME. You f-ing should be! Whether you can justify the cost through performance gained or simply by pride of ownership, it doesn't really matter.
Gutshot John
09-11-13, 15:39
This has gone full retard, and the OP isn't really the reason.
Suffice to say those that are talking about skepticism, aren't really practicing it.
The whole price thing is a canard. People spend thousands of dollars on this forum, on garbage they don't need for reasons that are only answerable to them. If they didn't, this forum would rapidly go "poof."
This is another data point, and this forum should be grateful that someone took the time to offer it. Ostensibly this is what this forum is supposed to be about.
Being a world class shooter is a requirement to post an opinion now? You're one of those?
LOL, no and nor did I say that. I threw it out there along with owning several guns and going to training. You could also be a firearms instructor, have armorer certs, etc.
This has zero importance in this instance. He hasn't recommended that people go buy Salient stuff, he didn't say local PD should employ Salient, or DoD should issue a contract etc. He simply posted an opinion. Sure, I'd wish there was some test numbers, drills, scores, etc. That said, no one who critiqued him posted objective performance data to prove anything otherwise. Examining, seeing other people shoot, or even shooting somebody else's gun without decent test-based eval is just as subjective.
When someone gives a review, I want to see a frame of reference for their opinion (especially if they say are going to carry it which means that they are willing to bet their life on it).
You are right. I would love to see the OP run a 10/10/10 drill with a stock G19 and then with this. Then maybe Defoor Pistol Drill #1 and examine the difference.
As far as not all opinions being equal, you're right. The only one that matters to me is mine, others are duly noted.
This is commonly the case (right or wrong).
C4
As a "data point" we have a slice in time, a few pictures and someones impression of a pistol.
Is this the data that we really want on this forum?
Perhaps. I leave this up to the people that moderate the forum.
Personally, i am more performance oriented and having shot a few Salient guns, i see no benefit whatsoever. Lets not even begin to discuss cost which as a DATA POINT, does actually mean something to people that budget their training and practice.
Gutshot John
09-11-13, 18:49
Lets not even begin to discuss cost which as a DATA POINT, does actually mean something to people that budget their training and practice.
Sure cost is an issue for some folks, but it also means less to those with more money and time.
You're (the royal you) fully capable of deciding whether it's right for you to choose, without dumping on someone else for making a different call.
How many people here buy NOD, Illuminators, lasers, and all kinds of garbage that they don't need. Who hear needs a $4K sniper rifle? Who here needs an SR-25? Who here needs ...insert whatever?
I've never seen anyone criticized for buying those...indeed those people fund the sponsors of this forum, who in turn pay for advertising, which in turn pays for this forum.
You might have shot a Salient and found no benefit, great, add your data point. Many others haven't. As for me, this thread was the first time I laid eyes on one.
It's not for me, but so what?
Putting an extra $1850 into a Glock (http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?57588-SALIENT-ARMS-INTERNATIONAL-their-quot-Tier-Packages-quot) is going to generate some noise. Should not be a surprise.
I like the slide milling, looks good
Gutshot.
I agree with everything you've said however, pistols are CCW weapons for most of us whereas rifles are, and i hate to say this, a luxury.
Gutshot John
09-11-13, 20:00
Gutshot.
I agree with everything you've said however, pistols are CCW weapons for most of us whereas rifles are, and i hate to say this, a luxury.
A valid point, but I have pistols that I CCW, and I have pistols that I practice with, and I have pistols that I collect, and I have pistols that are competition. This seems to me to be more of a competition gun, but I may have misunderstood.
I have a $2K custom 1911 that I'd never carry ever but I enjoy shooting. I have a $2k Remington Rand and a Luger that I'd never shoot. I have about $800 sunk into a G34, and other pistols that are just plain fun.
Anything beyond one or two pistols is what I consider a luxury.
I agree that a $2300 is a lot for a carry gun (especially if you actually use it and the police seize it as evidence), but who am I to judge?
Gutshot,
To add a bit to the discussion...
The salient offerings in 9mm are worthless as competition guns. 9mm is a minor loading in the Limited class and generally puts you at a pretty big disadvantage.
I could see these being somewhat decent guns in .40 cal for limited class but again, for that kind of money you're getting into custom 2011 category.
Why shoot a 23 ounce pistol when you can shoot a 45 ounce one?
I like organization, i like things to have their place and to me, these guns dont have any real place in the world other than being nice pieces of workmanship. I can appreciate the time and effort that goes into the guns i just cannot appreciate the price.
Just my two coppers.
Gutshot John
09-11-13, 20:33
I can appreciate the time and effort that goes into the guns i just cannot appreciate the price.
Totally valid, and as a personal preference I concur.
Others may reasonably come to another conclusion.
Whoa missed a lot, long story short it is what it is. If the thread was a waste of space I'll apologize again. I'll think long and hard next time before I decide to write another thread/review on here believe me.
As a "data point" we have a slice in time, a few pictures and someones impression of a pistol.
Is this the data that we really want on this forum?
Perhaps. I leave this up to the people that moderate the forum.
Personally, i am more performance oriented and having shot a few Salient guns, i see no benefit whatsoever. Lets not even begin to discuss cost which as a DATA POINT, does actually mean something to people that budget their training and practice.
You are correct and is what this forum is about.
Knowing that you attend training classes and shoot a lot, I would prefer to read your feedback on such a pistol as it would give everyone a much better of idea of its worth.
For instance, you shoot 10/10/10 in 9 seconds with a score of 95 with a bone stock G19. With your Salient G19, you shoot the same drill with a score of 100 in 6 seconds.
With this info, I think I could start to justify the extra money.
C4
A valid point, but I have pistols that I CCW, and I have pistols that I practice with, and I have pistols that I collect, and I have pistols that are competition. This seems to me to be more of a competition gun, but I may have misunderstood.
I have a $2K custom 1911 that I'd never carry ever but I enjoy shooting. I have a $2k Remington Rand and a Luger that I'd never shoot. I have about $800 sunk into a G34, and other pistols that are just plain fun.
Anything beyond one or two pistols is what I consider a luxury.
I agree that a $2300 is a lot for a carry gun (especially if you actually use it and the police seize it as evidence), but who am I to judge?
All true. I am the same way.
With the salient pistols, are they even competition legal? Do any competition shooters run them?
C4
Whoa missed a lot, long story short it is what it is. If the thread was a waste of space I'll apologize again. I'll think long and hard next time before I decide to write another thread/review on here believe me.
Not a waste at all! I have thoroughly enjoyed it and believe you have educated people about an expensive gun (that isn't all that common).
C4
theblackknight
09-11-13, 21:40
Well I would say that. I wrote this thread review for individuals to read something possibly interesting or fun, instead of the usual I got this or that thread. Then yourself and others completely thrashed it and tried belittling it by repeatably saying I can't believe anyone would buy that or you should have done this or that.
Skepticism is for a questionable circumstance not when you have the first hand end user speaking their opinion from experience. Then completely disregarding it and playing it off as uniformed and trying to convince others that you know everything about the firearm when you yourself have never touched it.
Retail 101 dictates when talking shop to a potential customer don't crap on them, you don't know what they may have been about to purchase from you.
When you turn out quality and something unique then you can demand more money, obviously "custom" lego guns are a dime a dozen. I found it comical how everyone was so concerned of the price of the firearm when it was never mentioned. The apparent over lecturing about it drives me to think jealousy or dare I say "hating" when I was simply discussing the attributes of the gun.
So personal gain was obviously the intent as every page of the thread has you pushing your product so mission accomplished on your part and I'm sure you don't care as long as the super majority continues to follow suit. You should probably change the name of this forum from m4carbine.net to GRTACTICAL.com/forum(:D:D:D:D:D:D), I came to this forum thinking it was filled with unbiased professionals instead it seems to be the run of the mill good ol' boys from the LGS who deem you unfit to be a gun owner if you like anything different than themselves.
None of this is said to be a jab or rude simply an observation from the other side of the fence. So if it is misconstrued as such I apologize. Thank you for taking the time to read this thread.
So simply to see if this forum implodes I'm going to order a Salient carbine and write a review.
I can identify with that last sentence sometimes.
The issue here isnt with you or any personal decision. It's simply a resources thing. Salient is known for having high prices for no reason at all. Members on this forum see $$$ as = possible skill or more battle belts for cool guy classes. People are thinking
"I could do this this and this to the gun, and a get the same performance benefits at XXX$ less,which could then be used for more ammo/classes/whatever" to obtain more skill.
All true. I am the same way.
With the salient pistols, are they even competition legal? Do any competition shooters run them?
C4
Vogel probably runs a 35 when he shoots limited but he is also good buddies with Taran...whose work looks like it came out of the Salient shop. I have no clue what connection there may be there but...yeah, just look at the work side by side...
At any rate, beyond that, i dont know of any note worthy shooters winning matches with Salient pistols, especially in 9mm.
Anyone care to chime in on this?
Edit:
No one in their right mind competing seriously is going to run any of these "tiered" pistols in Production or SSP. They are NOT legal. There ARE salient pistols out there with simple grip texturing that ARE production and SSP legal but they are not offered as a package. The slide work is 100% illegal in both divisions.
No one in their right mind, or at least that is competitive and consistently winning is running a 9mm in limited.
The Salient Tiered pistols ARE legal in ESP in IDPA.
I can agree with you theblackknight training is very important and you can never have too many cool guy battle belts! Just the thought of it motivates the fecal matter out of me. :)
I've seen some 3 gun guys using their G34/35's and shotguns.
I can agree with you theblackknight training is very important and you can never have too many cool guy battle belts! Just the thought of it motivates the fecal matter out of me. :)
I've seen some 3 gun guys using their G34/35's and shotguns.
TRUE!
I forgot that 9mm gets you pretty far in 3 gun.
theblackknight
09-11-13, 23:11
Vogel probably runs a 35 when he shoots limited but he is also good buddies with Taran...whose work looks like it came out of the Salient shop. I have no clue what connection there may be there but...yeah, just look at the work side by side...
At any rate, beyond that, i dont know of any note worthy shooters winning matches with Salient pistols, especially in 9mm.
Anyone care to chime in on this?
Edit:
No one in their right mind competing seriously is going to run any of these "tiered" pistols in Production or SSP. They are NOT legal. There ARE salient pistols out there with simple grip texturing that ARE production and SSP legal but they are not offered as a package. The slide work is 100% illegal in both divisions.
No one in their right mind, or at least that is competitive and consistently winning is running a 9mm in limited.
The Salient Tiered pistols ARE legal in ESP in IDPA.
Yeah, most of their guns are basicaly Limited guns, BUT in 9mm. Which means they are really just good for 3 gun.
I think there are some 3gun guys shooting Salient's Benelli's, but I've yet to see anyone in USPSA shooting a Salient gun at a major match . Zev tech ie glockworkx pretty much rules that demographic and dosent charge Salient prices.
Zev tech ie glockworkx pretty much rules that demographic and dosent charge Salient prices.
I bought one of their connectors and guide rod assemblies. Both worked well.
I had wondered how many people were using the Zev Tech stuff.
C4
I went on Zev Tech's website and spec'd out:
1. All their Signature cuts to the slide
2. Total grip reduction and stipple
3. Their complete trigger system
4. Slide refinishing
Cost: $765
Link to their website: http://www.glockworx.com/Default.aspx
So if you take the cost of a new GEN 3 and this cost, you are at $1265 (give or take).
I am guessing that if someone called them up and said "I want the works" they would be able to work you up better pricing.
C4
LightningFast
09-12-13, 09:09
No one in their right mind, or at least that is competitive and consistently winning is running a 9mm in limited.
Agreed with the rest of the post, but just had to point out that OrigamiAK (is/was a member here, and on many other popular forums) shoots a 34 with factory ammo in Limited and places very well in large matches.
As far as Salients in competition, I can't imagine anybody making that plunge. You could have a VERY nice non-Glock gun is nearly all of the divisions.
Honestly, 1K is a low round count. Standard GEN 3 Glock springs are supposed to be changed out at 2K sooooo.
Most people should not be allowed to own a 1911 (FYI). The constant PM's needed to make a 1911 run RELIABLY for high round counts is daunting. That is why most everyone ditched them for a gun that they can treat like their lawn mower.
C4
If you have a 1911 built right the first time they need about as much p.m. as an AR.
People have no qualms with maintaining their carbines but will suffer all manner of crap pistols because they don't want oil 'em or toss a bad mag in the trash.
Mysak
Thanks for the review. Enjoy the blaster.
Mysak, I also like the custom Glock. Salient seems to be the Glock people compare their own modified Glock to, must be a reason...:p
Hey thanks gents, so far so good I'll def be putting a mess load of rounds down the pipe.
If you have a 1911 built right the first time they need about as much p.m. as an AR.
People have no qualms with maintaining their carbines but will suffer all manner of crap pistols because they don't want oil 'em or toss a bad mag in the trash.
Pretty much. A 1911 needs more spring maintenance and adjusting of the extractor tension than an AR will though.
Oh, did I mention that not everyone should own an AR as well?? :)
C4
Magic_Salad0892
09-12-13, 22:41
Gen4 Glock 19 - $600.
Vickers controls - $40
10-8 Sights - $120 or so.
Remove finger grooves - free (or $20 if you have to buy a dremel)
Grip Force Adapter - $30
Grip Plug - $10
"-" connector - $3
NY1 Spring - $5
APEX Extractor - $30
That's like $840 bucks. Where's the extra grand going?
(There are a few other parts I like having, but that's pretty much all you need.)
theblackknight
09-12-13, 22:45
Agreed with the rest of the post, but just had to point out that OrigamiAK (is/was a member here, and on many other popular forums) shoots a 34 with factory ammo in Limited and places very well in large matches.
You forgot to mention that he shoots from concealment IE his actual carry gun and gear. O-AK is a bad man:D
Gen4 Glock 19 - $600.
Vickers controls - $40
10-8 Sights - $120 or so.
Remove finger grooves - free (or $20 if you have to buy a dremel)
Grip Force Adapter - $30
Grip Plug - $10
"-" connector - $3
NY1 Spring - $5
APEX Extractor - $30
That's like $840 bucks. Where's the extra grand going?
(There are a few other parts I like having, but that's pretty much all you need.)
Pretty much this, tho what year did you travel to to buy a 20$ dremel?;)
Magic_Salad0892
09-12-13, 22:48
Pretty much this, tho what year did you travel to to buy a 20$ dremel?;)
Mine came with a bunch of tips, and an extra charger.
theblackknight
09-12-13, 22:58
OH.
the cordless one.
mah bad.
All you really need is factory stock Glock $500!
I'm a Glock lover, stock Glocks. It's very clear that Glocks are the next "1911's" in regards with fiddling with them until they no longer work as intended.
MountainRaven
09-13-13, 08:50
All you really need is factory stock Glock $500!
And aftermarket sights to replace the placeholding plastic ones they ship with.
And a Vickers magazine release.
Possibly a Vickers slide lock/release.
Maybe a new extractor.
And....
;)
Am I the only one to think all the various cut-out openings could be problematic providing another reason a Salient shouldn't be an EDC?
A tip of the hat for this info:
"Standard GEN 3 Glock springs are supposed to be changed out at 2K sooooo.
That's great information.
I've probably got somewhere in the neighborhood of 3500/5000 rounds through my Glock 19 with the original spring. So far, so good, but for such a minor cost as a new spring, I'm going to order one today!
Would love an update on this.
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