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MegademiC
09-08-13, 23:47
Im looking for a holster for non CCW (I have a RCS VG2 that's fantastic).

This will be used for range use, competitions (3gun and such), and training. I like to get rough so I was thinking a retention holster was the ticket, but I'm not sure if its necessary. I am not LEO/MIL, just want to get into competitions, and like to train hard. So, some questions:

1 - will a pancake kydex holster (rcs style) hold a gun securely during a full sprint?

2 - safariland ALS, is it quick as a non-retention holster (comp-tac), or can you set the gun in it w/o locking like an sls?

3 - safariland sls, if the hood is left down, is it still retaining the gun a little (like a kydex holster)?

Im thinking of getting an sls, hood down for comps, and up if Im running around.

or an ALS if its quick enough for competition

Or is retention not necessary, I can sprint and slide and roll around and the gun will still be there? The retention is not for people (don't see a need in my case), but to make sure it doesn't fly out when training. I am also looking at g-codes stuff so any input as far as speed and such might help.


the only OWB holster I've used was a fobus that never came loose - it was basically a level II just on tension alone. :suicide:
Thanks a lot guys.

Wake27
09-08-13, 23:55
I love my G-Code stuff, especially since I switch between my 1911 and Glock. So far I have an OSH for each plus their OSL for the Glock (WML version, not yet listed for sale). They can be as fast or as secure as you want with the tension screw, but all of mine have had a great balance from the factory. Tons of mounting and carry options with the RTI wheel, though it does sit a little far off the body (definitely worth it IMO). The only real con I have to their stuff is in regards to the 1911 holster and it may very well not be limited to just them. Since the 1911 is heavy, the standard belt slide mount wasn't as easy to draw from. I found myself needing a little more leverage beneath the belt (like a large paddle holster) because if I drew the gun with even a slight angle the weight of the muzzle would mess up the draw stroke and I could not draw the gun. I have since bought the large paddle holster and an RTI wheel for my battle belt, and both have worked perfect, though I haven't tried them a whole lot with it. Again, it may be that way with any holster mounted in a such a way paired with a heavy pistol, I'm not sure. But, I definitely recommend their products. If you don't need the flexibility of the RTI wheel, I'm sure the regular stuff will have a slightly slimmer profile.

rathos
09-09-13, 00:02
Answers in line

1 - will a pancake kydex holster (rcs style) hold a gun securely during a full sprint?

Yes, they hold the gun very well

2 - safariland ALS, is it quick as a non-retention holster (comp-tac), or can you set the gun in it w/o locking like an sls?

It always locks as you sit the gun down but the ALS is very fast. It is almost like there is no retention device

3 - safariland sls, if the hood is left down, is it still retaining the gun a little (like a kydex holster)?

If set correctly it does hold the gun without the hood. You should be able to tip the holster upside down and the gun would not fall out with the friction set correctly and the hood down. You can still jostle the gun from the holster if moving enough. The SLS is slower (at least for me on the clock) then an ALS

theblackknight
09-09-13, 00:55
I vote ALS or thumb drive type. You don't want to shoot 3 gun seriously with a raven style holster.

sent from mah gun,using my sights

TCB
09-09-13, 03:14
A kydex holster is fine for range and competition use, and I would say is prefered. The ALS is an exelent holster more geared towards duty use but is very fast and the release is intuitive and happens on your normal draw stroke. I run a SLS/ALS at work and it is the best duty holster out there for LEO's.
If you want to be competitive get kydex from a good maker, you will have no worries of losing your sidearm under most activity that wouldn't leave you injured, they will also be much lower profile than a Safariland and ride closer/higher. If you plan on getting all geared up they may ride a bit too close for use with armor, in that case the Safariland will be ideal.
I usually end up with a Safariland and a kydex holster for most of my pistol platforms and also have dedicated competition holsters as well. Don't forget about holsters for carry....most people who shoot alot will end up with a large "holster box"....

vaglocker
09-09-13, 08:32
Just got one of the (relatively) new Safariland 7ts ALS holsters for my Glock 17. Haven't had a a chance to play with it that much yet but so far I really like it. For me the ALS release is very intuative and the draw is really fast even with the little practice i've had. I suspect it would be a good candidate for your needs.

MegademiC
09-09-13, 08:57
I vote ALS or thumb drive type. You don't want to shoot 3 gun seriously with a raven style holster.

sent from mah gun,using my sights

Okay, even over an sls, not using the hood for comps?

I'm hesitant about the internal lock of the als, can it jam up like a serpa or is it a non issue?

Thanks for the input, people.

glocktogo
09-09-13, 09:22
The way the ALS locks up is much less likely to get jammed. I wouldn't use the SLS because it's slower than the ALS (if only fractionally) and you need to treat it like the hood is alwasy secured. If you get in the habit of dropping the hood wth the intent of drawing more quickly at a delayed time, you may find the hood reengaged. I've seen more than one officer during quals nearly yank the holster off the belt trying to draw with the hood in the locked position.

jck397
09-09-13, 11:51
Just got one of the (relatively) new Safariland 7ts ALS holsters for my Glock 17. Haven't had a a chance to play with it that much yet but so far I really like it. For me the ALS release is very intuative and the draw is really fast even with the little practice i've had. I suspect it would be a good candidate for your needs.

+1 on this. I am running one of these as a duty holster. Very fast (I find it faster than my Raven because of the offset), but secure for running, etc. I also like the lack of felt lining, which retains moisture in wet environments, or dust here in AZ, making it gritty very quickly.

The SLS stand alone is almost as fast, but I've had mine pop open from my seatbelt, and see a lot of officers walking around unknowingly with an open hood. The gun also rattles around more in the SLS. The ALS/SLS is like solving a Rubik's Cube for anyone not familiar with it, but still fast. That might be more retention than you need, but if I were in a bar brawl that's what I'd want my gun in.

Cmm46
09-09-13, 13:09
Stick with a good kydex or the ALS and you'll be fine. I work in a plain clothes assignment and I use a comp-tac holster. It's kept the gun holstered while sprinting, climbing objects and tackling/wrestling with people. I also have 2 ALS holsters that I swap out on my molle belt. These holsters offer some retention and the draw is very smooth and fast.

walkin' trails
09-09-13, 17:45
I havd a Comp Tac and an ALS. The ALS is used for my raid belt. The Comp Tac gets used on the range and probably for competetion if I can get motivated. Either are good. I also have OWB holsters from Milt Sparks and Alessi that I like.

dmaxfireman
09-09-13, 18:33
Another vote for the Safariland ALS. I have a 6378 and the ergonomics for the release and draw are fantastic.

FAB45
09-09-13, 18:59
I use a Bravo Concealement kydex holster for OWB and competing, the quality and retention is great, I have run full sprint with it and have had no problems. I use the pancake clips on the holster as it allows the holster to ride closer/flat to the body.

Tzook
09-09-13, 23:47
I have an RCS Phantom that I jerry rigged to my battle belt with zip ties that has been solid for me, I've done alot of running around with it and so far retention is excellent.

Michael2007
09-10-13, 00:42
Another vote for the ALS series. I am of the opinion that if your gun is visible it should have retention. The ALS does not slow my draw at all and is quicker than my Kydex IWB by a lot.

chadb
09-10-13, 11:22
I ordered my holster from ravenconcealment.com It's the best holster I've found so far. It is a little pricey but well worth the money. If you do order one check the quick ship list you'll get it a lot faster. They do have a waiting list but they keep a decent inventory of the more commonly ordered holsters.

MegademiC
09-10-13, 12:04
Okay, so I have an m&p, eventually getting an extended barrel and a tlr-1, so im factoring that in.

The 7ts is not available in m&p flavors yet, so I'm looking at the als, level1. I see the paddle configuration for $40, but the mid or low ride models are >$100. Why the price difference? I am not concealing with this holster, so I want it a bit away from the body for speed. Would a standard paddle be fine for competitions? Can drop holsters (belt holster with, just say 1" drop) be used for competitions? Should I just get a 6377 with a paddle and call it a day or are belt attachments preferred? Im getting more confused the more I look at safarilands website - thing sucks.

Psalms144.1
09-10-13, 12:49
MM - for what you're describing, I think you'd be missing the boat if you didn't get an ALS-equipped Safariland. I'm back and forth between one of those for my open carry rig and a kydex belt holster (no retention) for my concealed carry rig, and I can tell NO difference in speed with the ALS. It beats the dog snot out of running the 6004 or any other SLS equipped rig, speed wise.

I have paddle-style ALS rigs for each of my pistols for casual "range" use; tactical rigs are attached to my belt and/or kit through the MLS system. The paddle holsters have been rock solid and never given me a lick of trouble despite some fairly intense training evolutions; but most are available with the belt loop option if you want something even more "stable"

Then again, I use my ALS rigs to "cheat" because I'm slightly faster out of the holster with them due to them being slightly offset from my body. I have several RCS and similar pancake holsters, and, if you're doing some kind of shooting where they're NOT holding your weapon securely, you're probably into some deep ninja-maga-hoodoo shooting that I've never had the pleasure to participate in. I've chased down suspects in foot pursuits over extended varied terrain, tackled and restrained them, all without any worries about any of my pistols coming loose from my properly adjusted belt rig...

YMMV, but that has been my experience.

Regards,

Kevin

MegademiC
09-10-13, 21:08
Alright, its down to the 6377 and the 6378. I looked at the g-code, but no light option unless I'm dropping $100.

With the safarilands above, when the belt attatchment is used for both, whats the difference in ride hight? Or is it the same belt attachment? If not, would lower be more comfortable/better for comps(with the grip being about even with belt) or is it all preference?

Any pics of m&p in either/both may help.

I think that's it. Thanks for all the help!

Voodoo_Man
09-10-13, 21:23
Unless you are worried that someone may try to take your gun out of your holster, then a standard kydex holster may be appropriate for you.

Michael2007
09-10-13, 21:35
A low ride or mid ride is about 4 times more comfortable and easier to draw from in my opinion. Again YMMV but its more natural to draw from a low offset holster.

kelly neal
09-10-13, 21:47
I would look beyond just the holster and consider the whole belt system. A large percentage of 3 gunners, including myself, run the Safariland ELS system. I don't think you need the retention that an ALS offers but it wouldnt hurt as 3 gun matches are not won or lost on .25 seconds in the draw stroke.

rackham1
09-10-13, 22:26
Alright, its down to the 6377 and the 6378. I looked at the g-code, but no light option unless I'm dropping $100.

With the safarilands above, when the belt attatchment is used for both, whats the difference in ride hight? Or is it the same belt attachment? If not, would lower be more comfortable/better for comps(with the grip being about even with belt) or is it all preference?

Any pics of m&p in either/both may help.

I think that's it. Thanks for all the help!

Call Safariland and talk to a rep. If I remember right, those are the exact same holster body and the model number just denotes which attachment.

rackham1
09-10-13, 22:28
You don't want to shoot 3 gun seriously with a raven style holster.

sent from mah gun,using my sights

Why? I don't shoot 3 gun so just don't know.

jpmuscle
09-11-13, 02:48
I'll echo many of the same sentiments regarding the ALS, that in combination with mid or low ride UBL is a really tough combination t o beat imo.

walkin' trails
09-11-13, 06:33
6377 or 6378 - I can't remember which one I have - came with the belt attachment. Anyway, it rides with the holster top at belt height. I converted mine to a duty belt holster with the QLS, I think I have the Zero-drop attachment, which puts the butt of the pistol at about elbow level and is cant adjustable.

JSantoro
09-11-13, 08:28
6378 has both paddle and belt loop.

MegademiC
09-11-13, 11:46
Okay, guys. Thanks for the help. I got the 6378. I figured if I really want the UBL dropdown I can pick it up down the road. I have NO OWB holsters so this will at least get me started. Picked up some safariland metal mag holders (skd doesn't have the readymags in stock), we'll see how they work out.

MegademiC
09-14-13, 23:59
Okay, I got the gear - great stuff. I'm updating this so people looking for similar gear can get some better info(if they use the search) here than what I could find(maybe I'm just simple). Before I get into it, I bought this from CopsPlus, and have to say they were great. They actually ate the cost of a mistake I made and didn't even tell me. Everything shipped very fast and I'll definitely use/recommend them in the future.
_____________
explaining the holster
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I purchased the 6378, which is the 6377 with the additional paddle attachment(as I understand it, if not someone please correct this).

The paddle puts the gun the highest, really high, but would be the best option if you were trying to conceal. If you got the light option like I did, forget about it.

The belt attachment fits 1.5" belts with a little plastic piece that can be punched out to make it fit 1.75" belts. It also has 2 mounting options:

-a high ride, that is similar to the paddle but a little lower (about a half inch, I think). There are 3 cant options.

lower ride(maybe called mid-ride)
- straight cant
- flip the attachment and you get about 15 or so degree cant

_____________
Thoughts
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Ok, This thing is fast! I found it much better to focus on hitting the release, and natural motion makes the gun feel like its spring loaded and jumping into your hand. If I think "pull the gun out" I botch the release sometimes.

One question - is there a mod one can do to allow the holster to fit extended barrels? This is the version for a light attachment.

Im really liking the safariland metal mag holders so far, but no live-fire yet. I am surprised I havnt seen more people mention them as they seem very fast for competitions, and when flipped inside the waistband, they are very low profile for ccw purposes. That said, I'll have to carry them for a while, and find a few competitions to put them through the ringer before I can made a real judgment on them.

Again, thank you all for the help!

theblackknight
09-15-13, 00:14
Okay, even over an sls, not using the hood for comps?

I'm hesitant about the internal lock of the als, can it jam up like a serpa or is it a non issue?

Thanks for the input, people.

There are matches where reholstering is more advantagous then grounding the pistol, which is of course up to the shooter as to if they have shitty gun handling or not.

PLus the ALS by itself adds almost no time. Like not even a .10.