Speaking of How much you shoot in a year

[RWH24]

When I was Range Master for our County Sheriffs Office, because of budget we qualified the required one time a year. We tried having range days where you could come out and shoot, providing your own ammo. We did this once a month for 3 months.. Varied days and hour of operation. Very few came and shot or asked for 1 2 1 help on anything.
We went to 1x every quarter, made it a 12hr open session. People showed up with their hands out and left when they were told no ammo.
I actually had a dipwad shoot his issue ammo and then asked for more. I called his supervisor who told him, no issue ammo, no work. I bet he made the fastest trip to GT Distributors in Dallas to purchase the issue GDHP 124gr +P 9mm or the 125gr 357 Sig ammo, which ever he needed.
Qualification week shows up and them the whinny babies come from the woodwork. You can't shoot, should have practiced. Gun don't function, last time cleaned was last years qualifications. Some LEO's are not gun people at all. It is a tool like an ink pen or writing pad.

My personal pref would have been each month issue 1, 50 rnd box of practice ammo, work on shooting issues, then observe them clean the weapon. They must shoot the 50 rounds there at the range, no carry out.
You qualified with your duty ammo issued last qualification and was reissued new ammo after cleaning your weapon properly..
Even if they, Admin, gave the certified Deputies 1 box every quarter for practice. Money is usually the reason for Admin to be able to fund range time and shooting practice, but what happens if lack of ongoing training causes a deadly incident, either way?
Just some food for thought.

[Dos Cylindros]

I'm on the range staff at my agency. We have four qualifications required in a year. You must qualify all four times with your department issued M&P 40 and the department issued M&P 15 or personally owned carbine as well as the 870 which is in every car. You have to qualify twice a year with your off duty or backup if it is different than your issue gun. During our quarterly qualifications we typically have four ranges to allow the troops on various shifts to be able to shoot on duty.

Anyone can come to all of the ranges though and shoot the courses over and over again if they wish. Few take advantage of this, but I sure did before I was on the range staff.

[sierra 223]

I try to get to the range once a month for pistol and rifle practice.

The unit that I was in before this we trained twice a month one day would be pistol and one day would be MP-5.

While in that unit I was able to be there several times during the month.

Would like to go more but time and ammo are both in short supply right now.

[Surf]

I am not taking any onus off of an individual Officer to practice on their own however the agency and administration has an obligation to provide ongoing firearms training to the employee. The minimal training topics have already been outlined by the courts. Failure of the employer to provide this training to the employee will constitute a "failure to train" and would more than likely fall under "deliberate indifference" as the template for training has already been outlined by the courts.

I do understand the budget issues being faced, however training is mandated to being provided by the courts and it is up to the agency and the administration to make that happen, budget aside. Also the courts have clearly outlined that qualifications cannot be counted as training, so if the only live fire being conducted by the agency is during quals, they are flat out wrong. I know the realities and most agencies are simply rolling the dice.

[C4IGrant]

I am not taking any onus off of an individual Officer to practice on their own however the agency and administration has an obligation to provide ongoing firearms training to the employee. The minimal training topics have already been outlined by the courts. Failure of the employer to provide this training to the employee will constitute a "failure to train" and would more than likely fall under "deliberate indifference" as the template for training has already been outlined by the courts.

I do understand the budget issues being faced, however training is mandated to being provided by the courts and it is up to the agency and the administration to make that happen, budget aside. Also the courts have clearly outlined that qualifications cannot be counted as training, so if the only live fire being conducted by the agency is during quals, they are flat out wrong. I know the realities and most agencies are simply rolling the dice.


This is funny. Not because what your saying isn't true, but because it never happens (at least where I am located). The two counties that I live in and near qualify ONCE a year (62rds I believe). This COUNTS as training (on top of qualifying).

NO OTHER TRAINING WITH A FIREARM IS DONE.


C4

[Surf]

This is funny. Not because what your saying isn't true, but because it never happens (at least where I am located). The two counties that I live in and near qualify ONCE a year (62rds I believe). This COUNTS as training (on top of qualifying).

NO OTHER TRAINING WITH A FIREARM IS DONE.


C4Yep, sadly enough this is the norm and not the exception, especially this day in age with so many budgetary issues. Hopefully all goes well, however the agency and more importantly the individual Officer has already lost if something bad happens. Precedence has already been set and clearly outlined. No matter how wrong it is, the unfortunate thing is that the rolling of the dice has become a more fiscally sound decision for those who are counting beans.

[sierra 223]

Some may laugh but I have been able to supplement my pistol skills a lot at home in the backyard.

Crossman 1377 air pistol, about $60.00 and surprisingly accurate up to 25 yards

I use a small 4 or 6 inch cast iron skillet, wear eye protection.
Pellets are found smashed a foot or two from target.

With just a little time getting used to the pistol you can hit nearly every time if you do your part.

Cheap, convenient and works on the basics of shooting.

Also lots of dry fire practice including mag changes, draw stroke, tap - rack, weak hand, one hand.

It all adds up and helps if you cant actually get to range and shoot your carry guns as much as we should.

But yes, we all need to shoot more and most depts. are grossly negligent in their lack of training.

[Voodoo_Man]

My dept quals once a year for 40 rounds, but we qual twice in the same day (just in case you suck really bad - and there are plenty).

[givo08]

Unfortunately with the cost of ammo, it gets hard for even the largest agencies to provide adequate training. And most LEO's aren't into firearms as a hobby. People spend way more time, money, and effort on their hobbies, whether that be hunting, shooting, fishing, golf, tennis, running, climbing, etc than they spend on their job. That is why you see most private civilian gun owners who care enough to post on forums like this and pursue training opportunities are generally better than the LEO's who do not do the same. I also find that LEO's who do pursue additional training, attend competitive shooting matches, and practice significantly on their own are outstanding shooters in general.

I am LEO and a firearms instructor for my agency as well. I am also an IDPA master class/USPSA A class shooter using my duty weapon, and dry fire (5-6 days/week) and live fire train regularly, so i understand what it takes to improve, but most people, LEO's included, aren't going to do that unless they are passionate about it. In addition, trying to get the masses through qualifications 4x per year plus all of the other administrative requirements that are supposed to happen at firearms training is very time consuming. It almost can't be fit into the one day / quarter each individual is given to shoot, let alone adding in combat courses and drills that can only be run one at a time when you have 20-50 to run through in a day. The onus is really on the shooter to go above and beyond that unless the agency provides additional days/ammunition or there is a paradigm shift in LE firearms qualifications/training away from the flat range, individual lane qualification courses.

[jpeezy]

Many departments due to budget constraints choose to take a matchette to training funds during bad economic times. The bad news comes when money comes back in city councils or county management sees how much they saved by axing training budgets that they do not want to allocate funds back in. For instance when I was hired we had a whole week (40 hours) of yearly inservice training required to maintain certification which included a whole day of firearms. Now this had been condensed to 8 hours a year which include 2 hours of firearms including the annual qual.
Agencies are "rolling the dice" now, and are 1 bad shoot away from being burned. They are hoping nothing bad happens, but glady accept the savings. When that poor to mediocre shooter hits a civilian and he or she can and will attribute it to lack of departmental training you may see a change. Until then municipalities will gladly take those training funds diverted to the general fund. I was always taught 100 rounds a month to maintain skill level, more to exceed it. Those days are years away I feel. Some say our department's shooting skill as a whole will take 5 years to recover once training is brought back. For the few who enjoy or are dedicated to shooting they just pony up and cut back elsewhere in there lives.

[C4IGrant]

Yep, sadly enough this is the norm and not the exception, especially this day in age with so many budgetary issues. Hopefully all goes well, however the agency and more importantly the individual Officer has already lost if something bad happens. Precedence has already been set and clearly outlined. No matter how wrong it is, the unfortunate thing is that the rolling of the dice has become a more fiscally sound decision for those who are counting beans.

Agree. I am freaked out when I see some of the SWAT teams around me shoot and train. They are nothing more than an lawsuit waiting to happen.


C4

[RWH24]

Some great perspectives here. The truth of the matter has been told in the posts above.

[Detmongo]

Wow, i thought our program was bad as we shoot around 300 rds per year for the line troops. Anyone qualed on a longgun shoots more. I qual on the mini14 + mp5 these quals add 400 rds plus 300 or so for the pistols. I've just been given the green light to run extra course of fire for my Division so my guys will shoot more than the front troops.

[alcante262]

Used to shoot 3 times amonth but lately with cost of ammo its alot less maybe once a month.That was shooting 4,9mm,.223,308

[rathos]

we get 100 pistol and if trained 100 rifle per month. We have two open range sessions and one open range session for reserves (full timers can still attend).

Most sessions only see 10 people show up in a 12 hour session (if that) and we have over 120 sworn. Most never get their ammo to practice let alone come out to shoot. Because of this they haven't cut our practice ammo, but we haven't had .45 ammo for practice for roughly 4 months, and none is expected for another month or two. They do still provide it to us for actually qualifying (which is required once per year). About two years ago they actually added a night qual for rifles.

Rifle qual is 50 rounds plus 6 pistol, standard qual if 46 rounds and night pistol is roughly 40 round.