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scoutchris
09-16-13, 10:16
Let me preface this post by saying that I NEVER create threads, and have NEVER said anything negative about Glock. I am a full-blown Glock fanboy. I was a Scout/Sniper in the Army and spent a few years in Iraq. I am an accomplished, ranked, and routinely placing at the national level IDPA and USPSA shooter. I have owned a Glock 17, 27 and 34- all Gen 3 and all have been absolutely flawless. I only shoot factory ammunition, and almost all of it is Federal. I am a degreed professional working for a Fortune 100 company, and I base my opinions off of data and empirical evidence, not off of personal experience, although the one I had this weekend confirms it.

I recently sold my Glock 27 for a Gen 3 Glock 19. I bought it used, and it still had the gold/copper tinge to the underside of the slide. The breech face had no markings on it whatsoever, and the barrel didn't had the signature Glock "smile" from cycling. This was a LNIB weapon, and bone stock. I bought it, along with holsters, a light, night sites, and all of the accouterments to make it my daily carry weapon.

Well, yesterday I took it to the range for the first time, and sure as shit, BTF. Two or more our of every magazine. My friend's fiance caught one right in the cheek and another down her shirt, blistering her breasts. This was both with Federal 115 and 147 JHP. Obviously this was unacceptable, and to be honest, I felt like an idiot for laughing at all of the threads on this site regarding this issue.

Now this morning I called Glock and was connected with a Technical Support Representative who sounded like he was on the factory floor and had better things to do. When I described the problem he told me that my two options were to send it in to be "evaluated" or to take it to a local Glock "Certified" Armorer. I've attended one of those "courses" and its slightly more informative than the sales brochure and a TR Graham DVD. I explained to him that I didn't feel right spending 20 percent of what I paid for the weapon to send it back to the manufacturer to correct a rampant problem. He then proceeded to tell me how this issue can be grip related and ammo related. I then shared with him my experience with both shooting and the company, at which point he asked me what the round count was, which in my opinion is completely unrelated and insignificant. At no point, whether it be at 50 or 5000 is this issue acceptable. He then asked me what the serial number was and looked it up. He then told me that because it was over a year old, Glock would not cover the shipping and is not responsible for the issue.

It wasn't necessarily just the content of the message he relayed to me, but the overall tone of the conversation that disgusted me. I then explained to him that if I was on the phone to Springfield they would already have an escort from backpage en route to my house with condoms and a return label no questions asked, and more than anything a company that touts perfection, and staking your life on their product should not blatantly refuse to acknowledge a problem that is widespread. Everyone knows that this is not ammo related. Everyone knows that this is not a grip problem. But the company is refusing to accept responsibility, have a little bit of integrity, fix it, and move forward.

Thought I would share the experience with the forum, from someone who actually called the manufacturer and has first hand experience with them. I'm sure the haters will come out to play, and this isn't a bash on the brand as a whole or a discussion to bring up which alternative is better, but hopefully a first hand experience with horrible customer service.

If anyone else has FIRST HAND experience with the technical support or customer service at Glock regarding this issue, I'd love to hear about it. Not your buddy's. Not your mom's. Not some guy on BARFCOM, but your own.

Thanks for a great forum, mods.

PLCedeno
09-16-13, 10:34
I have noticed a downward spiral in the politeness and effectiveness of CS at Smyrna. I called this morning re. a replacement rear sight (plastic) and was given the 3rd degree. I explained that I was an armorer and that a gun came into my local shop with a defective rear sight. That as a favor I was fixing it free of charge as I have done in the past with problem new guns-I keep a good relationship with the guys at the gun shop by doing this. The person on the phone wanted to know the serial number of the gun and when I took the class and who was the instructor. I was told it would be mailed as soon as they could get to it. The whole thing was strange considering the part we were talking about. I'm simply going to use a spare one I kept when I installed Trigicons for another customer.

I have said it before, Glock guns with Smith and Wesson CS would be ideal. My suggestion is to call again and hope a different person picks up the phone. Your looking for a new extractor and possibly a new ejector.

Talon167
09-16-13, 10:54
It sucks that happened to you. I would call them back today. You may get a different representative that is much more friendly/helpful.

scoutchris
09-16-13, 12:19
So I called back and explained the lack of resolution to the operator, who then transferred me to Doug Robinson. His extension was 6215. So in theory, he offered to fix it, but that still involved me sending my gun to them on my own dime.

I explained to them the cost to ship ration vs the cost of the gun, and he told me to blame UPS for forcing me to overnight it. I told him that I am not here to talk about UPS company policy, but about my malfunctioning Glock pistol. I also explained to him that not only is this a well documented problem, but I am more than capable of remedying it myself and he could ship me whatever parts he felt would fix it (extractor and ejector). He then began using vague terms about examining the pistol, and there could be a variety of things causing this to happen and we don't know if an ejector and extractor would fix it. He also wouldn't stop emphasizing how they were willing to shoot there own ammo and incur the cost of the man hours to fix it and the cost of ammunition.

So, in theory, they offered to fix it. As long as I sent it to them and went without a handgun to carry for the weeks that it takes to fix. He said that they do not have any idea what is causing this problem. I don't mind the theory of sending it back to them, but the fact that they are refusing to acknowledge that they have a problem, are pretty rude on the phone, and demean both my shooting ability and the quality of ammunition used infuriates me. I just expect people to take responsibility. Don't placate me. I also wouldn't be opposed to sending it back to them if they had anything near a halfway decent return time, or had anything close to a positive record of fixing the issue when they send it back. They have a horrible record of both.

Eventually he agreed to send "parts". What parts, he didn't say, and he said that they could only ship them to a "Certified Glock Armorer" and told me to go to their website, find one, and the have the armorer call him. I'm struggling to find how all of these things are my responsibility, but I did it right then and there on the phone with him, and now will have to drive 15 miles to the nearest "Armorer" when the parts arrive. I will not be paying anyone to install them for me and am really struggling with the question of whether or not the juice is wort the squeeze. I personally hate M&P's, but this experience is really leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Not because of the gun itself, although that sucks, but because of Glocks overall handling of a manufacturing defect. It's very unprofessional.

Time to step up, Gaston. Every empire eventually falls, most of them do to a lack of assimilation and a failure to look inwardly and openly address any shortcomings. I really hope this isn't the beginning of theirs.

Jaysop
09-16-13, 12:31
I've had nothing but good dealing with them. I've sent a gun back 3 times. The third time they replaced it.
They are full of shit about it needing to be overnighted. I've sent guns between a FFLs ground.
They've paid every time with little discussion.

KAC on the other hand refused to pay even with a BRAND NEW rifle that had missing parts and ejection issues. They eventually agreed but there sure as shit was no way I was paying another dime on that rifle.

scoutchris
09-16-13, 12:39
Leaving KAC out of it, that's exactly why I'm not sending shit to them. 3 times? What a record. I'll send it to them if they want to replace the entire gun. I'd even take a Gen 4, although I am not a fan. But I'm not going to play these games with shipping it back and forth for an extractor or ejector. That's bullshit. I carry this gun everyday to protect my life. Why should I go without? Especially when they are not accepting responsibility. It's like hearing an alcoholic explain how they don't have a drinking problem.

Jaysop
09-16-13, 12:46
Leaving KAC out of it, that's exactly why I'm not sending shit to them. 3 times? What a record. I'll send it to them if they want to replace the entire gun. I'd even take a Gen 4, although I am not a fan. But I'm not going to play these games with shipping it back and forth for an extractor or ejector. That's bullshit. I carry this gun everyday to protect my life. Why should I go without? Especially when they are not accepting responsibility. It's like hearing an alcoholic explain how they don't have a drinking problem.

I just told them that it was a gun I intended to trust with my life and that I in no way did. I told them I wanted a gen4. Took about a week of deliberation but they overnighted it.
They've always been pretty decent with me on turn around as well. First time was 7 days door to door. Not to bad.

scoutchris
09-16-13, 13:03
So would you say that you are a satisfied customer after sending it back three times? After them trying to "deliberate" how to make it right?

C4IGrant
09-16-13, 13:13
What is sad is that Glock KNOW'S about these problems. So they should (by now), have a canned reply. "Yes Sir, we apologize for the problem. We will e-mail you a shipping tag (that we pay $7 dollars for because of our negotiated rate with FEDEX) and get the gun corrected."


The limp wristing BS is so outdated. They really need to drop that comment. For the record though, they even tried to tell Ken Hackathorn that he was limp wristing his bad G19. :sarcastic:


C4

scoutchris
09-16-13, 13:15
This is so asinine to me.

JW5219
09-16-13, 13:24
For the record though, they even tried to tell Ken Hackathorn that he was limp wristing his bad G19. :sarcastic:


C4

Oh my Lord. Just when you think you've heard everything! :eek:

C4IGrant
09-16-13, 13:38
Oh my Lord. Just when you think you've heard everything! :eek:

Ya, I had to laugh. The day Ken "limp wrist" a gun is the day I explore Gay Porn.


C4

JW5219
09-16-13, 13:40
Ya, I had to laugh. The day Ken "limp wrist" a gun is the day I explore Gay Porn.


C4

LOL !!!!!!!

PLCedeno
09-16-13, 14:25
What is sad is that Glock KNOW'S about these problems. So they should (by now), have a canned reply. "Yes Sir, we apologize for the problem. We will e-mail you a shipping tag (that we pay $7 dollars for because of our negotiated rate with FEDEX) and get the gun corrected."


The limp wristing BS is so outdated. They really need to drop that comment. For the record though, they even tried to tell Ken Hackathorn that he was limp wristing his bad G19. :sarcastic:


C4

Perhaps even have a pre-packaged kit ready containing the extractor and ejector.

C4IGrant
09-16-13, 14:27
Perhaps even have a pre-packaged kit ready containing the extractor and ejector.

Agree.


C4

Psalms144.1
09-16-13, 14:27
Scout - on another thread, I vented my dirty laundry about my G19 experiences between 2010-12. I did not have to pay for shipping on ANY of the bad pistols I sent in, or the replacements they sent me.

Doug Robinson was a true gentleman and was a great help to me throughout my issues, if he can't help you, I'd suggest you call and try to talk to one of his superiors.

Best of luck!

Kevin

WillBrink
09-16-13, 15:11
What is sad is that Glock KNOW'S about these problems. So they should (by now), have a canned reply. "Yes Sir, we apologize for the problem. We will e-mail you a shipping tag (that we pay $7 dollars for because of our negotiated rate with FEDEX) and get the gun corrected."


The limp wristing BS is so outdated. They really need to drop that comment. For the record though, they even tried to tell Ken Hackathorn that he was limp wristing his bad G19. :sarcastic:


C4

For me, one of the factors I consider in a purchase is the CS reputation of a company. Machines break, and given the choice between product A and B, all things being equal, I will choose the company with a reputation for solid CS.

I have heard very few positive comments regarding Glocks CS over the years personally.

If you do right by people, they will tell 10 of their friends. Do wrong by people, and they will tell 100 of their friends.

C4IGrant
09-16-13, 15:24
For me, one of the factors I consider in a purchase is the CS reputation of a company. Machines break, and given the choice between product A and B, all things being equal, I will choose the company with a reputation for solid CS.

I have heard very few positive comments regarding Glocks CS over the years personally.

If you do right by people, they will tell 10 of their friends. Do wrong by people, and they will tell 100 of their friends.

Right. CS is everything because all companies put out lemons from time to time.


C4

scoutchris
09-16-13, 15:28
Right. CS is everything because all companies put out lemons from time to time.


C4

That's half the reason why I shoot Glocks- support. I can buy magazines everywhere, everything associated with it is cheap as shit, etc... But the customer service is a joke.

What companies need to realize is that with modern manufacturing there is a gray paste of excellence among modern pistols. You can pretty much take any polymer pistol out of the box, shoot a couple hundred rounds per month out of it, and have about the same failure rate. People by products because of the CHARACTER of it, the unique factor, and in my case, the support... Which has absolutely sucked today.

mrvip27
09-16-13, 17:31
Ya, I had to laugh. The day Ken "limp wrist" a gun is the day I explore Gay Porn.


C4

Sig worthy! LOL

WillBrink
09-16-13, 17:51
Right. CS is everything because all companies put out lemons from time to time.


C4


Some people should get that tattooed on their forehead. :D

nml
09-16-13, 18:00
So your G27 was flawless but you sold it

Jaysop
09-16-13, 18:14
So would you say that you are a satisfied customer after sending it back three times? After them trying to "deliberate" how to make it right?

Yea I would. I work in sales and deal with shitty people sometimes. It's hard to determine who's out to work you over and who you should bend the rules for. They get a lot of calls. I could only imagine filtering through all the crap legit and illegitimate.

It was pretty fast for what it was. I say they were "deliberating" but I'm sure they were just trying to make sure my old one wouldn't go down on me again. When they realized it might they cut thier losses I guess. I don't know.

scoutchris
09-16-13, 18:58
So your G27 was flawless but you sold it

Yeah, I just bought my first house and liquidated a bunch of weapons for the closing costs. Sold the 34 and the 27. Bought the 19 as a holdover until I could afford a carry AND competition piece again.

First world problems.

Talon167
09-16-13, 19:20
...and am really struggling with the question of whether or not the juice is wort the squeeze. I personally hate M&P's, but this experience is really leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Not because of the gun itself, although that sucks, but because of Glocks overall handling of a manufacturing defect. It's very unprofessional.

Time to step up, Gaston. Every empire eventually falls, most of them do to a lack of assimilation and a failure to look inwardly and openly address any shortcomings. I really hope this isn't the beginning of theirs.



M&P, PPQ, XD, P30 Lite LEM, etc. There are other options. I'd go P30 V1 :)

nml
09-16-13, 22:37
First world problems.Yeah with you there.

1. I am NOT the definitive source on Glocks
2. If you care for my thoughts this issue is due to:
a. adding the LCI forced a change in the extractor geometry. basically a shittier design all around
b. poor QC, specifically slide dimensions. You can take the same case, same extractor etc ---where the slide is the only variable--and fitment under the extractor claw can vary wildly so in my view, slide tolerances are varying wildly.

I had a 17 like this. here are the steps I took:
1. up to date RSA
2. replaced ejector with 30274. improves ejection angle relative to port
3. replaced extractor with non-lci type design (didn't want it noticeably sticking out of the slide so went w apex over glock oem)
4. using non-LCI SLB with extractor, in conjunction with slightly stronger spring (provided by apex)

Do not have the 10000 rounds I would feel necessary calling this gun "fixed" but will pass the 1911 extractor function test along w visibly improved extraction. You may prefer to just sell the gun and start anew but I wanted to play around with mine

Exiledviking
09-16-13, 22:45
ScoutChris,

I got the run-around by Glock back in late 2009 regarding my then 2-month-old G20SF. The trigger bar appeared to be rubbing the inside of the frame and slide and it had an inconsistent 8+ lbs trigger pull with the 5.5 lbs connector. I could actually feel the frame flexing out from the trigger bar when I pulled the trigger.
That was my 13th Glock (I'm on #15 now :help:). Glock's CS was being less than helpful even after 3 phone calls. They kept telling me to find a Glock certified armorer and have them evaluate it. When I asked where I could find one locally, they told me they couldn't give me that info!!!

If I sent it in I was told I would be looking at a minimum of 6 weeks and I would have to pay the shipping. From what I recall from that time in 2009 others who had similar issues with the -SF series were getting their -SFs back after 13 weeks with grind marks on the trigger bar. "Glock Perfection" indeed!
They finally relented after 4 phone calls and sent me a prepaid shipping label. The gun came back 2 weeks later with a 6 lbs trigger and the only paperwork in the package was a digital trigger pull print out showing several pulls very close to 6 lbs. Don't know what they changed inside that G20SF.

Based on that CS experience I started exploring other viable options.

SW-Shooter
09-16-13, 23:37
You spent the entire first paragraph touting your "badassery", but yet you fail at something even a first time Glock owner can figure out within the first month of owning one.

Why even call Glock if you supposedly know what's wrong with the gun? A simple google search will net you the parts required to fix the problem. All that experience and not an ounce of common sense to pony up less than $20.00 and fix it yourself. What is the gun community coming to nowadays. That's rhetorical, shame on you for even posting this.

For anyone touting the M&P, they have their fair share of "issues" as well, but luckily there is a fix for them as well. Don't send it in, fix it yourself. You learn more about the gun and become less dependent on CS.

ericl
09-16-13, 23:39
I have had two occasions (and witnessed a few others) with Glock CS that were less than stellar. The whole "limp wristing" or "bad ammo" excuse comes out first. To a degree, I understand. When troubleshooting an issue, start with the simplest of issues, eliminate those first, then go deeper if necessary. However, in the case of the current Glock issues, they should automatically know better. There are documented issues and I imagine they receive multiple calls daily with the exact same claims. While I believe that the majority of Glock pistols are fine (we always hear about the negatives), their refusal to acknowledge that their mass-produced firearms lack any faults is disturbing. I have faith in the product, but I am rapidly losing faith in the brand. Positive CS experience with SA and S&W only makes the Glock experience appear worse. I hope Glock sees the light and turns it around, as I still believe they have one of the best duty pistols on the market.

hatidua
09-16-13, 23:57
I think Glock mastered the "wow, we've never heard of that problem before" response to problems back with the trove of G30SF's and the FTRB issue that was so prevalent. Countless people experienced that just like the brass-to-face issue now but Glock refused to acknowledge that problem as well.

Ratfink
09-17-13, 01:32
I had very similar issues with a g17gen4 and because of glocks bad customer service I sold it and will never buy another glock product. There getting to big for their own britches.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Double3
09-17-13, 05:30
I guess my question is why did the handgun need to be sent overnight?

You can ship a handgun USPS Priority for like $10-15 tops.

PLCedeno
09-17-13, 05:32
I think Glock mastered the "wow, we've never heard of that problem before" response to problems back with the trove of G30SF's and the FTRB issue that was so prevalent. Countless people experienced that just like the brass-to-face issue now but Glock refused to acknowledge that problem as well.

Amazing. I really believed it was just my G30. Two trips to Smyrna with "could not reproduce customer complaint" led me to sell that gun.

Hmac
09-17-13, 05:49
I guess my question is why did the handgun need to be sent overnight?

You can ship a handgun USPS Priority for like $10-15 tops.
Has to be FFL to FFL though, doesn't it?

Double3
09-17-13, 07:37
Has to be FFL to FFL though, doesn't it?

A non FFL holder can ship a gun to an FFL.

Glock would ship that handgun right back to your house.

Jaysop
09-17-13, 07:44
A non FFL holder can ship a gun to an FFL.

Glock would ship that handgun right back to your house.

Or a replacment gun to your house.

JSantoro
09-17-13, 08:46
You spent the entire first paragraph touting your "badassery",

No, he was establishing that this isn't his first rodeo with that pattern of handgun. It wasn't a recitation of a resume for the sake of reciting a resume, it provided a basis for the language in which the remainder of the OP was couched. Kind of like the "Orientation" portion of an OpOrder.

And this isn't strictly about the now-ubiquitous hardware problems with Glock 9mm variants, it's about their CS apparatus.

We already have more than one (extensive) thread about what series of X parts will supposedly fix Y symptom, and how easy it is for a user to swap them themselves. We can easily let the hardware-specific/self-corrections take care of themselves and stick to discussion regarding the European model of customer service...

...which is and always has been "you bought our stuff, you should have known better, peasant, and if it's not working, it's probably something you did, how dare you insult my artisans?!"

"Insert Brand Here," USA, is still controlled by their parent companies in the Old World. Just because those yahoos get 6wks of vacation/year doesn't mean that the lines of authority aren't more rigid and stratified, and that it's not still amazing that those folks can bend, given where they have that stick shoved. Point being, it needs to be borne in mind that the "USA" branch of such a company can only apply corporate policy within the legalities of the US and advise the *some terrifying German word* Council as to how to frame policy. They don't make policy, they can only carry it out.

Those policies, if created by a culture that is the socio-political version of Chinese food (having fed, Germanic peoples are once again hungry for power after an hour's time...), still reflect the mainline corporate desires and how they view how customers should be handled.

Even given that, Glock's got no shortage of folks that are happy, satisfied if not happy, mollified if not satisfied, or simply resigned that what "resolution" they've received is gonna be as good as they can expect. America didn't invent "admit nothing, deny everything, make counter-accusations," we've just found new, faster and more interesting and passive-agressive ways to practice it. Running across it in it's pure, undiluted form is a shock to Americans

I've gotta find a way to fold some version of "...would already have an escort from backpage en route to my house with condoms..." into a conversation. Today.

C4IGrant
09-17-13, 08:52
I guess my question is why did the handgun need to be sent overnight?

You can ship a handgun USPS Priority for like $10-15 tops.

Only FFL's can use USPS. By Law, Civy's must ship 1 day air via UPS or Fedex.


C4

Double3
09-17-13, 09:12
Only FFL's can use USPS. By Law, Civy's must ship 1 day air via UPS or Fedex.


C4

You're right.

This is just pertaining to handguns though. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped USPS by a non license holder.

C4IGrant
09-17-13, 09:17
You're right.

This is just pertaining to handguns though. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped USPS by a non license holder.

Honestly, it is entirely up to the postmaster. Not all of them are pro gun. ;)


People would be wise to make friends with a local FFL and let them ship their guns for them. MUCH CHEAPER.


C4

jondoe297
09-17-13, 10:48
Why even call Glock if you supposedly know what's wrong with the gun?

Because it's their responsibility to address their defective product.

Double3
09-17-13, 12:59
Honestly, it is entirely up to the postmaster. Not all of them are pro gun. ;)


People would be wise to make friends with a local FFL and let them ship their guns for them. MUCH CHEAPER.


C4

Funny my buddy who recently received his FFL went round and round with the local post office about sending firearms.

They finally realized that they are supposed to ship them. He said no one there had any idea what was going on.

Abraham
09-17-13, 14:40
The U.S. Post Office in the not too distant future will be a thing of the past.

The can't keep up...

Hmac
09-17-13, 14:48
A non FFL holder can ship a gun to an FFL.


By common carrier, yes. Not by USPS (handguns) - I believe that has to be FFL to FFL for a pistol. Overnight UPS or FedEx gets expensive since both require that the handgun go overnight. And I'm not sure about FedEx, but with UPS a gun has to be declared, and has to be shipped from a depot. UPS store or contract shippers can't accept a gun.

skydivr
09-17-13, 14:50
A lot of this is what happens when you become "Too popular".

When Glock was smaller, they could watch production better, with less people who were better trained. As they have become the defacto "Must have" gun maker to the masses, they have had to ramp up production, hire more people etc. There's a point where things start to fail. They will either eventually learn and overcome it, of their popularity will fade...

vicdoc
09-18-13, 19:14
A non FFL holder can ship a gun to an FFL.

Glock would ship that handgun right back to your house.
A handgun can't be mailed by a non-ffl to anyone... long guns can be mailed by non-ffl to ffl...
Glock will ship your repaired gun by Fedex back to you. That's how they got my Glock back to me.
Postal regs here:
http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

I shipped my Glock which I bought used more than 10 years ago back for frame replacement under a 2002 recall at my cost by UPS.

They were polite, returning my gun with a new frame, new extractor, new recoil spring assembly, maybe other changes I am not aware of, in a new Glock plastic case with cleaning kit, manual pack, lock. The gun was gone for 11 days.

Honestly it's going to be hit or miss when you buy a used gun, and to expect them to pay for everything in a used gun which is out of warranty is a bit much, if you ask me.

PatrioticDisorder
09-18-13, 19:34
A handgun can't be mailed by a non-ffl to anyone... long guns can be mailed by non-ffl to ffl...

A handgun can be mailed by non-FFL to an FFL, happens all the time, you just can't do it though USPS, try Fed Ex or UPS.

MitchK
09-18-13, 19:35
A handgun can't be mailed by a non-ffl to anyone... long guns can be mailed by non-ffl to ffl...
Glock will ship your repaired gun by Fedex back to you. That's how they got my Glock back to me.
Postal regs here:
http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

I shipped my Glock which I bought used more than 10 years ago back for frame replacement under a 2002 recall at my cost by UPS.

They were polite, returning my gun with a new frame, new extractor, new recoil spring assembly, maybe other changes I am not aware of, in a new Glock plastic case with cleaning kit, manual pack, lock. The gun was gone for 11 days.

Honestly it's going to be hit or miss when you buy a used gun, and to expect them to pay for everything in a used gun which is out of warranty is a bit much, if you ask me.

A non FFL holder can't ship a handgun thru USPS, but can ship thru UPS or FedEx, but it has to be shipped overnight.

punkey71
09-18-13, 19:42
A handgun can't be mailed by a non-ffl to anyone... long guns can be mailed by non-ffl to ffl...
Glock will ship your repaired gun by Fedex back to you. That's how they got my Glock back to me.
Postal regs here:
http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm
.

A Non-FFL can ship via FedEx or UPS (not USPS) to a FFL holder. It can be mailed back to you by the same carriers.

As a non FFL, I have sent a revolver to S&W and a Glock to Cold Bore Custom.

Both were sent back to my doorstep via FedEx.

Below is from Cold Bore's website.

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

vicdoc
09-18-13, 22:37
Mail, mailable, mailing are terms referring to the US Postal Service. UPS and Fedex are common carriers, and they do not handle mail.
You can ship a handgun to an FFL by common carrier. A repaired handgun can be shipped back to you by common carrier.
They cannot mail a handgun back to you. They can mail a handgun to specific entities as listed in my link.
To say they can mail a handgun by common carrier back to you is to mix up the terms as the law is written.

Abraham
09-21-13, 13:58
Why does it have to go "overnight" i.e., the highest shipping cost?

Psalms144.1
09-21-13, 14:08
Why does it have to go "overnight" i.e., the highest shipping cost?No LEGAL reason why it has to. The business decision to require overnight shipping was based largely on the inordinate percentage of firearms that got "lost" (e.g. stolen by employees) when ground shipping was authorized...

Regards,

Kevin

aaron_c
09-22-13, 07:45
When I dealt with Glock CS back in November of 2011, they are really great. I went back through my emails and checked - the two that worked with me were Kevin and Dan (don't know how they and/or mods feel about full names being public online etc). They were both very helpful, as were all the other people I talked to in between that I can remember. I didn't pay for any shipping, and I had to send the gun back to them twice.

The one annoying thing about Glock CS, though, was that the first time they "fixed" my Gen 3, they told me they had multiple people test it to make sure it wasn't BTF'ing. Me and a friend went to the gun range when I got it back, and it was acting as if they didn't even touch the gun. Glock made it right after that, and didn't really question me when I told them it still wasn't working for me.

Hmac
09-22-13, 09:27
No LEGAL reason why it has to. The business decision to require overnight shipping was based largely on the inordinate percentage of firearms that got "lost" (e.g. stolen by employees) when ground shipping was authorized...

Regards,

Kevin

Yes. Fewer number of people handling the package, and every single person that does has to sign for it. Much better accountability, therefore less theft.

onado2000
09-22-13, 09:29
....pony up less than $20.00 and fix it yourself.
Don't send it in, fix it yourself. You learn more about the gun and become less dependent on CS.
I agree with this part of the statement. At what point is your time and energy worth $20 to fix the problem yourself (knowing its done your way, the right way). I understand your fight, and hope Glock makes it right. I have 6 Glocks, after reading this I will think twice to buy another. Good luck.

Abraham
09-22-13, 14:26
Psalms144.1 and Hmac,

Thanks for the insight on over night shipping of firearms.

Presumably, when shipping a one, there's identifying information on the outside of the package announcing there's a firearm inside - which of course would tip off would-be thieves...?

I've never shipped a firearm, so I've no clue about such details...

punkey71
09-22-13, 15:03
Prohibited from marking package as firearm -

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]


Psalms144.1 and Hmac,

Thanks for the insight on over night shipping of firearms.

Presumably, when shipping a one, there's identifying information on the outside of the package announcing there's a firearm inside - which of course would tip off would-be thieves...?

I've never shipped a firearm, so I've no clue about such details...

walker2713
09-22-13, 17:12
The bottom line, for non-FFL's is that they've made shipping handguns by a non-FFl almost prohibitive, whether by Fedex or UPS.....

okie john
09-22-13, 21:22
If anyone else has FIRST HAND experience with the technical support or customer service at Glock regarding this issue, I'd love to hear about it.

I haven’t dealt with Glock Customer Service on BTF but I have dealt with them on another issue, and the results were equally dismal.

A few years ago, I bought a new Gen3 G17. It grouped well, but at 10 yards, it was 2.375” over POA, at 25 yards it was 6.35” over POA, and at 50 yards it was 12.5” over POA. Essentially, it was zeroed somewhere around 175 yards. I had several other squared-away pistol shooters shoot it, with the same results. I also asked around among the more savvy gun-shop types in the area, and the consensus was to send it back to Glock. I returned it to Smyrna with a letter explaining the situation and detailing how I had arrived at my conclusions. I asked them to test it at 25 and 50 yards and correct the problem.

I got my pistol back a couple of weeks later. In the box was a test target with a five-shot group fired at 15 yards. The group was slightly high compared to POA. There was another piece of paper in the box: the last page of an email with only the URL from an email address. When I took the gun back to the range, the problem had not been solved. I called Smyrna to ask what they had done, but trying to explain it to them was a complete waste of time. It reminded me of dealing with Ruger back when Bill Ruger, Sr., was still alive.

As far as I know, the folks in Smyrna just shot my pistol at 15 yards and returned it to me. If they did more, then they didn’t to tell me. Their message, loud and clear, was, “Thanks for buying our pistol. Now have fun out there.”

So that was my experience. The question is what to do about it. The Glock user base has documented significant reliability and usability problems in Glock pistols. Glock Austria is (slowly) moving to fix them, but Glock Smyrna seems to be running a smoke-and-mirrors campaign to deflect attention away from them. I don’t know why Glock Customer Service is so disconnected from its user base, but the ball is pretty clearly in our court as far as buying, owning, and using Glock pistols.

So where do we go from here? If Glock isn’t going to look out for shooters, then we have to look out for each other and for ourselves.

First, we should continue to talk about problems with Glock pistols like we’re doing here, so people who are deciding which pistol to buy can hear us and decide for themselves. Maybe Glock will wake up and pay attention to this some day.

Second, we should continue to test and report on Walther, FNH, and other pistols. None has the logistical tail that Glock has—yet—but they don’t seem to have the quality and reliability issues, either, and their customer service doesn’t suck.

Third, we can continue to buy Glocks, knowing they require shooting 1-2k rounds in testing, plus another $200 for sights, extractors, ejectors, and other parts to get them ready for duty—and that we’ll get no help from Smyrna along the way.


It wasn’t necessarily just the content of the message he relayed to me, but the overall tone of the conversation that disgusted me.

Unfortunately, this amped-up mix of gun-counter-guy attitude plus entry-level-employee ignorance is the state of Glock’s customer service these days. It’s probably best to allow these little people their delusions of grandeur and just pony up for the parts it takes to make a Glock run the way they think it does.


Okie John

JimmyB62
09-22-13, 22:16
I guess I don't see why Glock should have to pay for shipping on a used gun. While the OP said it appeared to be in new condition, the history of the gun is unknown and it's unknown what the previous owner(s) did with/to it.

I think we all expect a lot from Glock because they've had a history of repairing and updating used guns, no questions asked. In this case I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the owner of a used gun to pay for shipping back to the factory (where in all likelihood they'll replace parts free of charge.

Just my opinion.

scoutchris
09-22-13, 23:43
When the cost of shipping is 20 percent of the cost of the product and the manufacturer of said product has the motto "Perfection" it becomes a problem for me to send it back on my own dime.

scoutchris
09-24-13, 09:22
FOLLOW UP:

Well, this past Friday the local "Glock Armorer" called me from a gun range Glock shipped my parts to. I went down there and picked up a small plastic bag with a brand new dipped extractor and a 30274 ejector. The ejector was by itself, not in the plastic housing group. I have installed both parts, but have yet to test fire them.

We shall see if these things fix the issue, and for how long. Just to be clear, I am grateful for Glock shipping me these parts free of charge in an attempt to fix it, their attitude just blows trying to get to this point.

I'm interested to see if these work. From what I've read there is no consensus as to what parts or combination thereof works.

mayonaise
09-24-13, 17:44
I haven’t dealt with Glock Customer Service on BTF but I have dealt with them on another issue, and the results were equally dismal.

A few years ago, I bought a new Gen3 G17. It grouped well, but at 10 yards, it was 2.375” over POA, at 25 yards it was 6.35” over POA, and at 50 yards it was 12.5” over POA. Essentially, it was zeroed somewhere around 175 yards. I had several other squared-away pistol shooters shoot it, with the same results. I also asked around among the more savvy gun-shop types in the area, and the consensus was to send it back to Glock. I returned it to Smyrna with a letter explaining the situation and detailing how I had arrived at my conclusions. I asked them to test it at 25 and 50 yards and correct the problem.

I got my pistol back a couple of weeks later. In the box was a test target with a five-shot group fired at 15 yards. The group was slightly high compared to POA. There was another piece of paper in the box: the last page of an email with only the URL from an email address. When I took the gun back to the range, the problem had not been solved. I called Smyrna to ask what they had done, but trying to explain it to them was a complete waste of time. It reminded me of dealing with Ruger back when Bill Ruger, Sr., was still alive.

As far as I know, the folks in Smyrna just shot my pistol at 15 yards and returned it to me. If they did more, then they didn’t to tell me. Their message, loud and clear, was, “Thanks for buying our pistol. Now have fun out there.”

So that was my experience. The question is what to do about it. The Glock user base has documented significant reliability and usability problems in Glock pistols. Glock Austria is (slowly) moving to fix them, but Glock Smyrna seems to be running a smoke-and-mirrors campaign to deflect attention away from them. I don’t know why Glock Customer Service is so disconnected from its user base, but the ball is pretty clearly in our court as far as buying, owning, and using Glock pistols.

So where do we go from here? If Glock isn’t going to look out for shooters, then we have to look out for each other and for ourselves.

First, we should continue to talk about problems with Glock pistols like we’re doing here, so people who are deciding which pistol to buy can hear us and decide for themselves. Maybe Glock will wake up and pay attention to this some day.

Second, we should continue to test and report on Walther, FNH, and other pistols. None has the logistical tail that Glock has—yet—but they don’t seem to have the quality and reliability issues, either, and their customer service doesn’t suck.

Third, we can continue to buy Glocks, knowing they require shooting 1-2k rounds in testing, plus another $200 for sights, extractors, ejectors, and other parts to get them ready for duty—and that we’ll get no help from Smyrna along the way.

Unfortunately, this amped-up mix of gun-counter-guy attitude plus entry-level-employee ignorance is the state of Glock’s customer service these days. It’s probably best to allow these little people their delusions of grandeur and just pony up for the parts it takes to make a Glock run the way they think it does.


Okie John

It's pretty common (well maybe not) knowledge that Glocks shoot high at 25 yds. Most people change the factory sights out anyway. Glock, I'm sure has figured that out and keeps the cost of the gun down with the inexpensive poly factory sights factoring in that most "squared-away" pistol shooters change them out anyway.

Some good advice from Hilton Yam (http://www.10-8performance.com/products/Glock-Rear-Sight.html)

Glock produces 4 factory rear sight heights, 6.1, 6.5 (standard most guns) 6.9 (standard 10mm & .45), and a 7.3

motorcopm4
09-26-13, 11:10
Only FFL's can use USPS. By Law, Civy's must ship 1 day air via UPS or Fedex.


C4

That's what I was going to say. You can go to UPS and ship but its overnight on a handgun