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X-Phile336
09-18-13, 14:29
During a recently closed thread, aaron c made a reference to sending his Gen3 back to Glock:

"Turns out, after sending it in, the Gen4's were fixable and the Gen3's were not. Glock replaced my Gen3 with a Gen4 with all updated parts inside."

For some reason I wasn't able to send him a PM to find out more, or if he meant to say they weren't able to fix his Gen3 or if he meant all Gen3's in general. I tried a search function, but I keep getting information about individual pistols being worked on and nothing about the Gen3 line as a whole.

Has anyone heard of repair problems with the whole Gen3 line, or am I simply misreading something?

Thank you,

brickboy240
09-18-13, 15:21
Here was my experience...

3rd Gen G19, made April 2012.

After about 600-800 rounds...mine started tossing 2-3 pieces of brass straight at my face (per 15rd mag) and the other cases were going all over the place. Did this all the time and with all ammo tried.

Replaced the stock 336 ejector with the 30274 ejector that I took out of a Gen 4 trigger assembly I bought from Midway USA.

Replaced the stock extractor/spring with Apex's Gen3 9mm specific FRE unit.

I have run almost 2000 rounds through this same gun since then and have not had brass come anywhere near my face. In fact, it ejects about like my old 2nd Gen G17 does. Not one stovepipe, either.

Fixed Gen 3?

I think so...

YMMV but my troublesome Gen 3 Glock is fixed.

-brickboy240

Abraham
09-18-13, 16:04
My wife's G19 Gen 3 has started BTF.

Did you do the work to replace the parts or would you recommend a gunsmith do the work?

I wouldn't have a clue how to go about it, unless there's a u-tube video that might help.

Thanks.

X-Phile336
09-18-13, 19:08
I'm sorry, I guess I'm not being very clear.

After reading aaron c's post, I'm under the impression that Glock, Inc.'s, service department was unable to help fix his pistol simply because his was a Gen3 model, and instead of fixing it (because it was a Gen3) they just gave him a new Gen4.

My question is has anyone heard of Glock not being able to fix one of their pistols simply because it was a Gen3 (or older) model, and if so, why?

brianc3
09-18-13, 19:31
Here was my experience...

3rd Gen G19, made April 2012.

After about 600-800 rounds...mine started tossing 2-3 pieces of brass straight at my face (per 15rd mag) and the other cases were going all over the place. Did this all the time and with all ammo tried.

Replaced the stock 336 ejector with the 30274 ejector that I took out of a Gen 4 trigger assembly I bought from Midway USA.

Replaced the stock extractor/spring with Apex's Gen3 9mm specific FRE unit.

I have run almost 2000 rounds through this same gun since then and have not had brass come anywhere near my face. In fact, it ejects about like my old 2nd Gen G17 does. Not one stovepipe, either.

Fixed Gen 3?

I think so...

YMMV but my troublesome Gen 3 Glock is fixed.

-brickboy240

This pretty much mirrors my experience. Youtube vids are available to help you swap the ejectors. If you send it to Glock they will put the 30274 ejector in if you request it. I think Glock is unsure and does not want to spend the time/money to cure the Gen 3 when so many people will just accept brass bouncing all over their head. Get the APEX Fre extractor and 30274 ejector and you should be good. If that doesn't work you may have a slide that's just too out of spec and I would request a new gun from Glock.

CrazyFingers
09-18-13, 20:18
My wife's G19 Gen 3 has started BTF.

Did you do the work to replace the parts or would you recommend a gunsmith do the work?

I wouldn't have a clue how to go about it, unless there's a u-tube video that might help.

Thanks.

I replaced the ejector (30274 bought from Lone Wolf), extractor & extractor spring (Apex), and non-LCI spring loaded bearing (MidwayUSA) on my Gen3 G19. I had never detail stripped a handgun before, and it took me about 15 minutes. It was extremely simple and cost me about $70, not including the Glock disassembly tool ($8.00, or the appropriately sized punch from a hardware store). There are YouTube videos detailing the specific steps.
I bought all my parts after reading threads like this for the past year and realizing that there was a good chance I'd spend about that for overnight shipping back to Glock only to receive my gun still throwing brass at my nose.
The 45 rounds I ran through it yesterday were night and day different from what it was doing, and the gun seems to be running flawlessly now.
No, I did not contact Glock first, and yes, they should have taken care of this issue for free. I just didn't feel like fighting with them over this, and I wanted to learn more about my pistol.
Since I didn't give Glock a chance to make it right, I don't feel good about bad-mouthing them, but the fact remains that my pistol was doing the exact same thing that a not-insignificant number of other Glock customers were reporting.
Bottom line: This is a simple, quick fix that seems to have solved the issues for a large number of Glock owners with the affected pistols.
Only you can decide if you want to talk to Glock first.

X-Phile336
09-18-13, 21:42
Again, I guess I'm just not being clear enough with my question.

Has anyone had any experiences with Glock, Inc's, service department NOT BEING ABLE TO FIX (or work on?) one of their pistols simply because it was a Gen3 (or older) model, and if so, why?

I'm curious to know what aaron c meant by this in his post from another thread.

kantstudien
09-19-13, 05:07
I probably wouldn't go so far as to make this an issue of Glock being "unable" to fix the Gen 3.

It was probably a cost/benefit analysis and they decided to just send a new Gen 4 rather than pay an employee to test fire the gun and troubleshoot the problem(s).

Think about how much a Glock costs to produce ($50?) versus how much they need to pay skilled labor? Cheaper to just send a new Gen 4 and be done with it.

lowbar
09-19-13, 05:30
I would be unhappy if they sent me a Gen4 in place of my Gen3. I prefer 3s over 4s all day long. With that said, I know they are still producing new Gen3s, wonder why they didnt send one of them.

aaron_c
09-19-13, 09:40
Hey, glad I stumbled onto this thread! Not sure why it wouldn't let you PM me, that's weird.

Anyway, and I'm trying to remember as accurately as possible here...They could put the new 'upgraded' parts in the Gen 3, and they did. The new internals didn't resolve the BTF problem though, and they said it was most likely because the upgraded internals were made for the Gen 4 guns, which of course have some minor frame differences from the Gen 3. They said they could try another set of internals in my Gen 3 but that if the first set didn't fix the issue on Gen 3's, they weren't seeing much /any success in resolving the issue after that.

They then offered me the options of trying the fix again, getting a new Gen 3 with updated internals, or getting a new Gen 4 with updated internals. I opted for the Gen 4 because I knew the issue was fixable with that model, it's been flawless. Hope that helps, let me know if you have any other questions.

brickboy240
09-19-13, 09:57
Didn't even THINK about sending my G19 back to Glock.

Why? The fix was out there on the web and not terribly expensive.

Did the deed with the help of You Tube vids on the kitchen table and it worked. Try THAT with your 1911, XD or whatever else you shoot.

Really...if a 60 dollar part and 15 minutes on the kitchen table fixes a Glock...what IS the problem?

I'd call almost 2000 trouble free rounds....fixed. I'll carry the thing now.

No need to call Glock or ship anything, if you ask me.

-brickboy240

CrazyFingers
09-19-13, 10:09
Really...if a 60 dollar part and 15 minutes on the kitchen table fixes a Glock...what IS the problem

Well, I think a lot of Glock owners (myself included) feel that the brass-to-face/stovepipes were a problem, and having to drop another $60+ on a new gun is a problem, and Glock either ignoring the issue or basically throwing their hands up in the air and going "shucks, I dunno" is a problem.

Now, from a purely practical perspective, yes, the Apex/30274 fix does get a malfunctioning gun working, it is simple, and it's not like we have to take out a second mortgage to implement. And, again from a practical stance, it's faster, easier, and about the same cost (assuming Glock won't pay for shipping).
But, from an ethical perspective, there are several problems that remain unresolved.

aaron_c
09-19-13, 10:11
Glock did pay for all of my shipping costs, by the way.

brickboy240
09-19-13, 10:16
Maybe, but you are probably too young to remember the days when Colt was the only 1911 out there. When you bought a new Colt, you KNEW you were going to have to send it straight to a smith to make it feed properly. There were no Glocks, HKs or M&Ps and the S&W semi-autos were inaccurate, heavy and clunky beasts that nobody wanted. There were Hi-Powers and surplus P-38 Walthers around from tinkerers. That was it.

So I might have to spend an extra 60 bucks and 15 minutes on the kitchen table to make a Glock fly right?

Man...I'll take it.

You don't know how good we really have it today, as far as auto pistols go.

-brickboy240

AKDoug
09-19-13, 10:30
Here was my experience...

3rd Gen G19, made April 2012.

After about 600-800 rounds...mine started tossing 2-3 pieces of brass straight at my face (per 15rd mag) and the other cases were going all over the place. Did this all the time and with all ammo tried.

Replaced the stock 336 ejector with the 30274 ejector that I took out of a Gen 4 trigger assembly I bought from Midway USA.

Replaced the stock extractor/spring with Apex's Gen3 9mm specific FRE unit.

I have run almost 2000 rounds through this same gun since then and have not had brass come anywhere near my face. In fact, it ejects about like my old 2nd Gen G17 does. Not one stovepipe, either.

Fixed Gen 3?

I think so...

YMMV but my troublesome Gen 3 Glock is fixed.

-brickboy240 This is my exact experience with my Gen 3 G19

Psalms144.1
09-19-13, 11:17
I don't think GLOCK considers the 3rd Gen G19s "unfixable," but I DO believe that GLOCK is focusing all their "WTF is happening" effort on the Gen4 guns. Hence GLOCK's eagerness to replace troubled 3rd Gens with Gen4s, because they honestly think that the bugs in the Gen4s are worked out.

Again, the APEX FRE and associated parts, plus the updated ejector will PROBABLY fix most issues. If they don't there's probably NOTHING short of a trip to Randy Lee's magic shop that will make the gun run - and even then its not guaranteed, and the work will void your warranty.

Regards,

Kevin

brickboy240
09-19-13, 11:42
You could always buy a nice lightly used 2nd or early 3rd gen G19 if you want to totally avoid this issue.

Check many online places...it is not as if there are none for sale! LOL

-brickboy240

CrazyFingers
09-19-13, 12:01
Maybe, but you are probably too young to remember the days when Colt was the only 1911 out there.

That's an interesting assumption. :rolleyes:

And I stand by my opinion that in 2013, you should not have to spend time and money to fix a new gun.
I did, and my gun runs, and overall I'm satisfied with it.
But no, I shouldn't have had to do it.

X-Phile336
09-19-13, 13:46
Thank you for the explanation, aaron C - like I said, I was curious as to what you meant.

Also, regarding the PM, here is the message I got:

"aaron_c has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.

If you are trying to send this message to multiple recipients, remove aaron_c from the recipient list and send the message again."

Exiledviking
09-19-13, 13:55
And I stand by my opinion that in 2013, you should not have to spend time and money to fix a new gun.
I did, and my gun runs, and overall I'm satisfied with it.
But no, I shouldn't have had to do it.

I couldn't agree more. If this was a new car sold in the US with issues, it would be voluntarily fixed by the manufacturer or they'd face a recall.

DAVID RICHARDS
09-20-13, 10:10
As I stated before I went through every attempt that was listed on the internet to get my G19's working. Including multiple trips back to Glock.
I have had six replacement guns of which two were GEN3's. The first I bought to avoid the GEN4 problems. The second was my 4th replacement gun.
Glock replaced every part in both GEN3 guns and they would work for awhile. By the second one the 30274 extractor was out and was being tried in some GEN3 guns. When I asked Glock about this they at first denied they were doing it. And then later said it was not fixing all the guns. I was told in so many words the guns were not fixable. So then was sent a series of GEN4's that went through the various upgrades.
Depending on the upgrades they worked anywhere from 400-2000 rounds. One of the GEN4's didn't work right out of the box.
I finally gave up on Glock and let Randy and APEX work on my last GEN4. He tried fitting 2 or 3 ejectors. polished the feed ramp and worked on the chamber. I thought the last thing would be to lower the ejection port to get it to work. No go.
The slide was way out of spec and he had to do some stoning to the follower ridge which was dragging on the brass slowing slide velocity. It is finally (at 800 rounds with fingers crossed) performing o.k.. It still has touched the sleeve of my right shoulder twice. And hit my elbow once. But no hits to the face or head. Although not what I would call perfect ejection it is no longer abusing me. Throwing brass left, forward, 6:00 or whatever is gone.
Some brass out of a mag will shoot 3:00-4:00 then throw a couple to 5:00. But like I said it does not abuse me anymore. This is about as good as it's going to get with this gun. Randy spent many man hours with this gun. Shot tons of ammo through it. Kept me updated on it. And only charged me for parts. Oh and BTW he had to put a GEN3 adapter in it also to get it to work. I named the gun SATAN. Steve at Apex told me it was the hardest gun they have ever had to get working. So yes their are some guns that simply are so out of spec even with all the replacement pars are almost impossible to fix. Most are fixed by the 30274 extractor and APEX Glock FRE though. Good luck.
The slides being out of spec in different parts of the slide is a large part of the reason no one thing seems to fix all guns. The QC or lack their of is a huge problem. If it's not too out of spec it may be fixed simply. Get a turd and it could be a nightmare. But yes they do give up on the GEN3's many of the GEN3's and send GEn4's as relacements. Problem is they may or may not be better.

eternal24k
09-20-13, 10:20
This is very interesting an discouraging at the same time. I have a Gen3 17 that I have shelved after installing the new extractor and ejector and even WSD extractor spring assembly.
I have planned on going APEX, but also considered a 3rd party slide....

scoutchris
09-20-13, 11:07
As a Glock fanatic, reading threads like this, and the thread I started myself is the anti-boner.

okie john
09-20-13, 12:08
Again, I guess I'm just not being clear enough with my question.

Has anyone had any experiences with Glock, Inc's, service department NOT BEING ABLE TO FIX (or work on?) one of their pistols simply because it was a Gen3 (or older) model, and if so, why?

I'm curious to know what aaron c meant by this in his post from another thread.

I haven't seen this, but I've only sent one pistol back to them, and it was for a POI issue.

Whether Glock customer service is shitty should get its own thread.


Okie John

wl518
09-23-13, 23:01
Having bought a Gen 3 Glock 19 in Nov 2012 and experiencing BTF after 400 rounds I was in the same situation as everyone else. Send it to GLOCK to get the run around or fix it myself? I went with the 30274 and APEX FRE route and don't regret a thing! Does it suck that I have to fix something that I had no part in breaking? Yep. I will say this though. Having read the original extraction thread I KNEW of the issue before I purchased the 19, so the fault is not just on GLOCK alone, I consider it myself being naive as well. With that said you dig your own grave, and if your putting your life on a working 19 to get out of it, do the right thing.....go the APEX route. Trouble doesn't wait for you to get your shit together.

Tzintzuntzan
09-24-13, 00:13
I think a lot of Glock owners (myself included) feel that the brass-to-face/stovepipes were a problem, and having to drop another $60+ on a new gun is a problem

So if $60 is too much to fix a problem I would hate to think what the cost of high quality night sights combined with extra magazines would be :eek:

In all seriousness though, yes it is irritating but not completely unreasonable to assume that any purchase will require unexpected costs to be paid.

CrazyFingers
09-24-13, 08:04
So if $60 is too much to fix a problem I would hate to think what the cost of high quality night sights combined with extra magazines would be :eek:

You do see the difference between spending money on an aftermarket or additional parts to meet your own personal preferences, and spending money to make a brand new gun run reliably...right?

http://www.applegazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/apple_and_orange.jpg


In all seriousness though, yes it is irritating but not completely unreasonable to assume that any purchase will require unexpected costs to be paid.

We seem to have differing definitions of unreasonable in this situation, especially for a product with this corporate logo:

http://www.glock.com/GlockLanding/img/landing_logo.gif

Full Definition of PERFECTION (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/perfection)
1: the quality or state of being perfect: as
a : freedom from fault or defect : flawlessness
b : maturity
c : the quality or state of being saintly
2 a : an exemplification of supreme excellence
b : an unsurpassable degree of accuracy or excellence

Not even close.

Please remember that my problem here is with Glock's current standard of quality control and anecdotal evidence of their spotty customer service. I did not contact them on this issue, mainly because after reading numerous reports from those who did, I accepted the additional expense of aftermarket parts as a more probable solution than waltzing with Glock CS for a few months.
All of that aside, the gun seems to run fine now, and I'm over it.

The initial situation was still entirely unreasonable.

The Dumb Gun Collector
09-24-13, 08:30
I have been shooting Glocks since 1992 and all of them have exhibited BTF to one degree or another. Maybe they are worse than they used to be. I currently have a 1989 early Gen2 G19 and it loves to pop you in the head when you least expect it.

krichbaum
09-24-13, 10:15
Ya know, I'm starting to wonder about the true nature of this BTF phenomenon. I've now run into a couple long time Glock shooters that say the BTF is actually something they always thought to be somewhat normal for Glocks, even going back to 1st and 2nd gen. My good friend who I usually shoot with owns several older .40 variants, and they all do this some.

I have mixed feelings on it, but if the gun functions without issue, I guess that's the main thing. I just recently bought my first Glock, a gen 3 19. First time out with it, I hated it due to the erratic ejection and the amount of BTF. I replaced the ejector and while the ejection isn't perfect, it is much improved. At least for now, mine isn't throwing brass at my face/head, and so far no malfunctions even with weak ammo. I have purposely limp wristed it and if anything, the ejection was actually more consistent. I'm gonna keep testing it and likely switch over from my M&P to the G19 for CCW. I just shoot the Glock better for some reason, but then again, I have the factory triggers in my M&Ps.

Double3
09-24-13, 11:03
The internet always makes things look worse than they are.

People usually don't post on forums talking about how they have no problems.

Tzintzuntzan
09-24-13, 11:18
So if you bought an M&P and had to replace the crap trigger that it comes with I would assume you would also be upset. I can understand being irritated if after putting in money it still ran like a piece of junk and frankly putting in over a hundred dollars to get a gun to be reliable is irritating. However considering the cost of handguns that typically don't have these issues, like a PPQ, are usually more expensive, from what I've seen in my area, than changing out a part, I don't find it entirely unreasonable. Vexing? Indubitably! Trash talk the company, no. Switch to another brand, maybe.

DreadPirateMoyer
09-24-13, 11:29
So if you bought an M&P and had to replace the crap trigger that it comes with I would assume you would also be upset.

There's a difference between that and what's happening with Glocks, though. M&P's crappy triggers don't actually impede the gun's functionality; the gun works just fine, and upgrading the trigger is just to improve the gun's feel. With Glocks, however, 2-3 casings to the eyeballs every magazine are most definitely a functional defect. Comparing the two expenditures is disingenuous and unrelated, I think.

Getting the gun to work reliably out of the box should not incur any additional expenditure to the purchaser. Getting the gun to feel better is an entirely different matter. Two different situations.

skipper49
09-24-13, 11:39
I have been shooting Glocks since 1992 and all of them have exhibited BTF to one degree or another. Maybe they are worse than they used to be. I currently have a 1989 early Gen2 G19 and it loves to pop you in the head when you least expect it.

This ! I started shooting Glocks in the late 80's. Never had one that wouldn't hit me every so often. Same for most of my 1911's. Some of my Sigs will, and some won't.

Skip

Tzintzuntzan
09-24-13, 11:42
Yes, I am aware of the fundamental difference between these two alterations, and it's why I'm hesitant to buy Glocks anymore. I admit that having a weapon which cannot be consistently fixed by the factory is a bit to fairly aggravating. What I'm simply not in favor of saying is that it is entirely unreasonable to change out something for a single aftermarket part. Do I find it somewhat unreasonable? Yeah, because it sucks. What I do find entirely unreasonable is when changing out six or seven parts and doing all sorts of hocus pocus type shit means you simply sunk an ungodly sum into that POS and you can't even get it to make a good paperweight because it gets gunk everywhere. All in all, yeah this is why I don't recommend Glocks anymore.

CrazyFingers
09-24-13, 11:55
There's a difference between that and what's happening with Glocks, though. M&P's crappy triggers don't actually impede the gun's functionality; the gun works just fine, and upgrading the trigger is just to improve the gun's feel. With Glocks, however, 2-3 casings to the eyeballs every magazine are most definitely a functional defect. Comparing the two expenditures is disingenuous and unrelated, I think.

Getting the gun to work reliably out of the box should not incur any additional expenditure to the purchaser. Getting the gun to feel better is an entirely different matter. Two different situations.

Exactly.
In the first ~800 rounds, my G19 was averaging 2-3 empties bouncing off my face per magazine, and had at least a half-dozen stoppages related to failure to properly eject the spent brass. This is not a comfort issue, or a personal preference, or a matter of customizing a pistol for some specific purpose. This is a fundamental flaw in the firearm's essential functioning.
The basic purpose of a pistol is to fire the chambered round, eject the spent brass, and chamber a fresh round. It needs to do this reliably and predictably, otherwise it fails a critical requirement.
If the factory trigger in an M&P produced the same fundamental failures in their pistol requiring aftermarket parts to correct, then yes, I would also consider that unreasonable. I would also consider the history of the issue and S&W's corporate stance on rectifying the problem.

To that point, I own a 15-22 that's been back to the factory 3 times to correct erratic ejection issues. Each time, S&W customer service was quick to accept responsibility for the issue, and emailed a pre-paid shipping label within 24 hours. The last time back they fixed the problem and I haven't had any further issues. This anecdote is not meant to "trash-talk" Glock, simply to show that there are other ways for a company to approach a problem.

With the Apex FRE and the 30274 ejector, my G19 now seems to function within acceptable parameters. I understand this is not a guaranteed fix for all owners, but if Glock announced tomorrow that there is a known issue with some Gen3 G19s, and their default position is to issue pre-paid return shipping labels to install 30274 ejectors and Apex extractors (even as an interim solution), I think this would go a long way towards restoring faith in both the firearm and Glock's intention to stand behind it. At least it would for me.

Apricotshot
09-24-13, 11:58
So if you bought an M&P and had to replace the crap trigger that it comes with I would assume you would also be upset. I can understand being irritated if after putting in money it still ran like a piece of junk and frankly putting in over a hundred dollars to get a gun to be reliable is irritating. However considering the cost of handguns that typically don't have these issues, like a PPQ, are usually more expensive, from what I've seen in my area, than changing out a part, I don't find it entirely unreasonable. Vexing? Indubitably! Trash talk the company, no. Switch to another brand, maybe.

My M&P9 VTAC can't group for shit at 25 yards and the trigger was shit. I agree with you. I would rather have a G19 throwing brass in my face and still have a decent trigger and decent accuracy at 25 yards, I wear glasses so its not like I will go blind. It isn't like every shot is to the face like a Belladonna flick with a Glock. Better than a pistol like the M&P that needs a custom barrel and a trigger job right out of the box.

brickboy240
09-24-13, 12:07
Yep, the internet DOES make every gun problem seem 10 times worse that it actually is.

None of my 3 2nd gen Glocks have ever given me brass to the face.

If a 60 dollar part and 15 minutes on the kitchen table cures my newer 3rd gen Glock from this problem....it is not a perfect situation...but I'll take it.

Especially given the alternatives I would have to take with a 1911 that does this! LOL

-brickboy240

Tzintzuntzan
09-24-13, 12:07
My M&P9 VTAC can't group for shit at 25 yards and the trigger was shit. I agree with you. I would rather have a G19 throwing brass in my face and still have a decent trigger and decent accuracy at 25 yards, I wear glasses so its not like I will go blind. It isn't like every shot is to the face like a Belladonna flick with a Glock. Better than a pistol like the M&P that needs a custom barrel and a trigger job right out of the box.

I'd rather have neither ;). But shitty accuracy with the M&P is definitely unreasonable bull.

brickboy240
09-24-13, 12:11
Yeah because with the Glock...you have a good chance of having the BTF issue fixed with a 60 dollar part.

With the M&P...the crappy accuracy fix is MUCH more expensive and cannot be done on the kitchen table. Then...you STILL have the crappy trigger to deal with.

The other choice is to go to the Walther PPQ or HK P-30.

-brickboy240

JPB
09-24-13, 12:41
I have been shooting Glocks since 1992 and all of them have exhibited BTF to one degree or another. Maybe they are worse than they used to be. I currently have a 1989 early Gen2 G19 and it loves to pop you in the head when you least expect it.

Ditto. I thought that erratic ejection was just the price of admission. My Gen 2 holds the dubious distinction of put the first scratch in my brand new sunglasses...

PatrioticDisorder
09-24-13, 12:56
Yeah because with the Glock...you have a good chance of having the BTF issue fixed with a 60 dollar part.

With the M&P...the crappy accuracy fix is MUCH more expensive and cannot be done on the kitchen table. Then...you STILL have the crappy trigger to deal with.

The other choice is to go to the Walther PPQ or HK P-30.

-brickboy240

Most people never actually had an accuracy problem with their M&P to begin with, but the problem has been fixed, along with the trigger being fixed (though they still have varying degrees of gritty, easily fixed with the $30 USB).

So we have Glock who sticks it's head in the sand and pretends there isn't a huge problem with reliability and Smith who actually addressed complaints that had nothing to do with reliability. Apples to oranges comparison. This is why I became disgruntled with Glock and switched to M&Ps. The only thing left to complain about with M&Ps is sporadic availability of mags and that seems to slowly be coming to an end.

Double3
09-24-13, 13:47
So we have Glock who sticks it's head in the sand and pretends there isn't a huge problem with reliability and Smith who actually addressed complaints that had nothing to do with reliability.

Guess this is the first I've heard of a HUGE reliability problem with Glocks.

Apricotshot
09-24-13, 13:49
Most people never actually had an accuracy problem with their M&P to begin with, but the problem has been fixed, along with the trigger being fixed (though they still have varying degrees of gritty, easily fixed with the $30 USB).

So we have Glock who sticks it's head in the sand and pretends there isn't a huge problem with reliability and Smith who actually addressed complaints that had nothing to do with reliability. Apples to oranges comparison. This is why I became disgruntled with Glock and switched to M&Ps. The only thing left to complain about with M&Ps is sporadic availability of mags and that seems to slowly be coming to an end.

Buy my M&P VTAC then? $700 bucks with a APEX trigger job and 5 mags! Just don't get yourself in a gunfight between 18-25 yards ;)

PatrioticDisorder
09-24-13, 13:53
Buy my M&P VTAC then? $700 bucks with a APEX trigger job and 5 mags! Just don't get yourself in a gunfight between 18-25 yards ;)

If you're having accuracy issues you may want to contact smith. I just sold off a 9mm CORE (replaced with a .40 CORE) and at 25 yards I couldn't tell any difference in accuracy with it or my old Gen 3 G19. To be fair it did have the 1/10 twist barrel. I've yet to need Smith CS but from what I've heard they'll get you a prepaid label sent out ASAP and fix the problem.

PatrioticDisorder
09-24-13, 13:56
Guess this is the first I've heard of a HUGE reliability problem with Glocks.

Brass to the eyeball & stovepipes on a massive scale with Glocks is certainly something I'd consider a huge reliability problem. Even guys who at first report how their gun runs great all seem to eventually run into BTF/stovepipes once they start shooting... Good on you if you're into that kinda thing, but I'll pass.

Apricotshot
09-24-13, 14:06
If you're having accuracy issues you may want to contact smith. I just sold off a 9mm CORE (replaced with a .40 CORE) and at 25 yards I couldn't tell any difference in accuracy with it or my old Gen 3 G19. To be fair it did have the 1/10 twist barrel. I've yet to need Smith CS but from what I've heard they'll get you a prepaid label sent out ASAP and fix the problem.

That would be the second time I would have sent it back to them. My pistol originally came with a 40S&W slide on it. I'm cashing in my loss. Someone else can get it running right.

PatrioticDisorder
09-24-13, 14:10
That would be the second time I would have sent it back to them. My pistol originally came with a 40S&W slide on it. I'm cashing in my loss. Someone else can get it running right.

So your .40 had accuracy issues?

Apricotshot
09-25-13, 07:16
So your .40 had accuracy issues?

Negative. My 9mm M&P came with a 40 slide from the factory. A **** up in another words. Sent it back and they corrected the issue.

rvb
09-25-13, 15:16
Again, I guess I'm just not being clear enough with my question.

Has anyone had any experiences with Glock, Inc's, service department NOT BEING ABLE TO FIX (or work on?) one of their pistols simply because it was a Gen3 (or older) model, and if so, why?

I'm curious to know what aaron c meant by this in his post from another thread.

I sent in a Gen 3 G34 twice and they couldn't/didn't/wouldn't fix it. Third time I sent it in I told them I better be getting a new gun. They did replace it, and the replacement was a lemon, also.

This was my first glock, so I did some research and testing. Stronger extractor spring plus Gen 4 ejector has made it run.

First gun was purchased at the end of 2011. Replacement came mid 2012. Got it working fall of 2012 on my own. Really screwed up my 2012 uspsa season.

This was what I experienced at just one local uspsa match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku1-fq6RV0Q

-rvb

rvb
09-25-13, 15:23
The slides being out of spec in different parts of the slide is a large part of the reason no one thing seems to fix all guns.

My first G34 mentioned above had a huge twist in the slide. Very apparent with a straight edge along the bottom of the rails. glock didn't seem to care, even when I pointed out that I thought it was the problem.

In my first gen3 G34 (that glock eventually replaced w/ another lemon), I worked with a friend to issolate the problem who had an older reliable gen 3 17.... we found the gun ran 100% perfect w/ all of my small parts in his slide, using my lower half.... it most definitely was the slide that was the problem. I think these other fixes are bandaids for bad slides....

slides are problably the most expensive part for them to replace (maybe asside from the barrel), so they are hesitant to do so.

-rvb

PatrioticDisorder
09-25-13, 16:50
Negative. My 9mm M&P came with a 40 slide from the factory. A **** up in another words. Sent it back and they corrected the issue.

How did you NOT notice a .40 slide on your gun BEFORE you bought it??? Either way, plenty use .40 M&Ps and drop 9mm barrels in with plenty of success (good accuracy) so I don't believe it was the slide that was causing your accuracy issues.

Doc Safari
09-25-13, 17:00
I have been shooting Glocks since 1992 and all of them have exhibited BTF to one degree or another. Maybe they are worse than they used to be. I currently have a 1989 early Gen2 G19 and it loves to pop you in the head when you least expect it.

I've been shooting them about that long, too. It seems to depend on the particular gun. I've had Glocks that never did it; others did it every time.

Currently, I shoot a Gen3 G17 made in early 2010 that launched empties into my face until I replaced the extractor with one from Lone Wolf. The gun is absolutely a keeper now as I never get brass to the face anymore.

RHINOWSO
09-25-13, 20:13
Glock perfection...

Apricotshot
09-26-13, 06:53
How did you NOT notice a .40 slide on your gun BEFORE you bought it??? Either way, plenty use .40 M&Ps and drop 9mm barrels in with plenty of success (good accuracy) so I don't believe it was the slide that was causing your accuracy issues.

Bought it from Buds. Never even fired it with the wrong slide on it. Only after it came back did I fire it. Matters not. M&P 9mm accuracy is a mixed bag of nuts.

PatrioticDisorder
09-26-13, 09:54
Bought it from Buds. Never even fired it with the wrong slide on it. Only after it came back did I fire it. Matters not. M&P 9mm accuracy is a mixed bag of nuts.

Sounds like a lesson in inspecting a firearm before you take possession (do the background check). You have the right to send that gun right back to Bud's without taking possession for them to deal with it in a circumstance like that. Bud's should have caught that if it came from the factory like that.

It sucks you have a M&P 9 that isn't accurate and it is a well documented problem that has since been fixed in new production guns (the 9 CORE I sold had very solid accuracy). You have every right to be pissed,'I know I would be if Smith didn't make it right,'but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I'd escalate the issue with them.