View Full Version : M&P troubles
I'm gaining a lot of confidence in my shooting lately, however I'm experiencing a slight issue with my M&P 9. My support hand thumb is getting scorched by the slide takedown lever. I've tried working around it and finding a different grip, no matter what I do I keep getting cooked. I have rather large hands so maybe this isn't an issue amongst others but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Gutshot John
09-20-13, 20:41
Can you take a picture of your grip?
I have the same problem on the PPQ.
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I've put 200 rnds through a shield in 45 mins and never noticed the heat. On my full sized I have my thumb on the takedown lever while shooting and it never bothered me, but never had that many rounds in that little time. How many rounds are you shooting in how much time when you get burned?
Your grip looks fine to me (I am NO expert). I actually have my support hand a little higher and further forward than you - my support thumb knuckle rests on the front half of the lever.
400 rounds in roughly an hour. It gets hot. Not quite blister the skin hot, but hot enough that my shots start going places I don't want them too.
Roll your support hand further forward so that the wrist is fully extended downward and as a result, your support hand thumb will find itself further forward.
Not mine, but here is a link with a detailed description for your reference: http://lawenforcementtactics.com/training/instructional-articles/proper-handgun-grip
Is it actually getting hot, or are you getting a lot of friction and starting a blister like a hotspot on your foot in bad shoes?
The takedown lever is in contact with, and I think the anchor for the forward set of rails in the M&P. There will be some heat transfer from metal surface to metal surface, mainly from the barrel which heats up from the friction of the bullet. But that has to go through the lug, to the locking block, to the rail, and to to the TD lever.
If it is heat and not your thumb rubbing, what type of ammo are you using? Is it possible that you have a loose chamber and there is a lot of hot combustion gasses shooting out of the chamber and into the frame? Is it really sooty in that area? The M&P's have been described as unlocking very quickly, and possibly a slow burning powder is jetting out of the gun? Also, to this point, are you shooting suppressed?
Tennvol12345
09-22-13, 20:44
Don't ride the lever like a 1911. Try and stack your thumbs one over another with no gap
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xjustintimex
09-22-13, 20:51
the m&p is known to do that. Todd on Pistol-forum had a special holster made because it gets so hot the holster will not even save you! :D Only ideas I have... moleskin... gloves....
theblackknight
09-22-13, 22:44
I'd try a piece of masking tape before anything. I also shot my M&P like that a couple times and just let it cool.
sent from mah gun,using my sights
Is it actually getting hot, or are you getting a lot of friction and starting a blister like a hotspot on your foot in bad shoes?
The takedown lever is in contact with, and I think the anchor for the forward set of rails in the M&P. There will be some heat transfer from metal surface to metal surface, mainly from the barrel which heats up from the friction of the bullet. But that has to go through the lug, to the locking block, to the rail, and to to the TD lever.
If it is heat and not your thumb rubbing, what type of ammo are you using? Is it possible that you have a loose chamber and there is a lot of hot combustion gasses shooting out of the chamber and into the frame? Is it really sooty in that area? The M&P's have been described as unlocking very quickly, and possibly a slow burning powder is jetting out of the gun? Also, to this point, are you shooting suppressed?
It's definitely heat. One of the guys that works at the range picked it up after I was shooting and was surprised at how hot it was. It does get very sooty below the chamber. There's usually a lot of buildup around the trigger mechanism. I'll try to relocate my support hand.
Gutshot John
09-23-13, 11:19
Roll the thumb farther forward, believe it or not if you do it properly (gently pushing strong hand into support hand) you also get better recoil control, and you minimize trigger torque.
Roll the thumb farther forward, believe it or not if you do it properly (gently pushing strong hand into support hand) you also get better recoil control, and you minimize trigger torque.
looks like that to me too. I just did a class 2 days ago and had to get called out a few times for my grip - it feels real wierd working that left hand forward and down. I put some grip tape just forward of the takedown lever (though I have a p229) to give a reference point for my finger.
Hardware solution is to get a second gun. I have the same problem with a different gun (actually any gun, though some are worse than others) and started using my back up to train with too. While one is cooling I'm shooting the other. They still get hot but not as bad. If you're shooting a lot, the price of the gun is almost incidental.
Software solution is to slow down. It really can help me at times. Obviously this isn't really the solution but sometimes it's good to slow down and evaluate what you're doing.
It's heat-heat, not friction. The M&P takedown lever is a helluva heat-sink, and gets pretty hot under sustained rapid fire. Mine do this, too, and I've gotten singed, too....
What Gutshot said; getting the thumb down toward your support-hand index finger can be a help in lots of ways, but at the least, it won't hurt anything you're already doing if you do that to get your thumb away from the takedown lever if it's that hot.
Don't do it just to do it, though; it's a mistake to think that everybody has the range of motion to do so. Even if you deliberately "float" your thumb away from the frame a skosh, while gripping as you currently do, you'll get essentially the same result in terms of getting your thumb away from the heat source.
There's no reason for that thumb to be resting on the frame with anything much more than incidental contact, and pressing it in too hard can influence the frame and how you print. The whole point of pointing the thumb like that is to straighten out your wrist, not press on the frame with the thumb as far forward as possible.
Like lots of other folks, when I stippled mine, I put a small patch just forward of the takedown lever so as to help provide a tactile reference point for that thumb....
...which has helped me not in the least, since my thumb doesn't end up on the frame, just along it. Now, it's just messed-up polymer.
DMViergever
09-23-13, 20:45
Gloves...I wear them in classes to keep from what you are talking about. Plus I run a 10.5 barrel, Adams gas piston and suppressor so if I get stupid it doesn't take much to singe a thumb so if I know I am putting a lot of rounds through quick I wear em...
400 rounds in roughly an hour. It gets hot. Not quite blister the skin hot, but hot enough that my shots start going places I don't want them too.
How about wearing some shooting gloves?
I've owned both a M&P9 and M&P40 full size and never had any issues with grip, although I have medium sized hands.
I usually wear some gloves (even workout gloves will do) when shooting a few hundred rounds of ammo. Rifle barrels get hot, and pistols may start to give you some issues depending on your grip.
I have this same problem, I dont wear gloves because most likely, I'll be using it in a situation where I'm not wearing gloves... Practice as you fight and all.
DMViergever
09-24-13, 07:16
Better get that thumb good and calloussed then!
I really appreciate all the input guys. Going to the range tonight, hopefully I can make some progress.
It's heat-heat, not friction. The M&P takedown lever is a helluva heat-sink, and gets pretty hot under sustained rapid fire. Mine do this, too, and I've gotten singed, too....
What Gutshot said; getting the thumb down toward your support-hand index finger can be a help in lots of ways, but at the least, it won't hurt anything you're already doing if you do that to get your thumb away from the takedown lever if it's that hot.
Don't do it just to do it, though; it's a mistake to think that everybody has the range of motion to do so. Even if you deliberately "float" your thumb away from the frame a skosh, while gripping as you currently do, you'll get essentially the same result in terms of getting your thumb away from the heat source.
There's no reason for that thumb to be resting on the frame with anything much more than incidental contact, and pressing it in too hard can influence the frame and how you print. The whole point of pointing the thumb like that is to straighten out your wrist, not press on the frame with the thumb as far forward as possible.
Like lots of other folks, when I stippled mine, I put a small patch just forward of the takedown lever so as to help provide a tactile reference point for that thumb....
...which has helped me not in the least, since my thumb doesn't end up on the frame, just along it. Now, it's just messed-up polymer.
Interesting.
I'm looking forward to trying this myself. I'd like to blame my lack of sustained firing sessions on ammo supply, but the truth is that I'm trying not to soot the M&P too much and unlearn what is very natural with the Glocks.
I'm liking my M&P 9 more and more every time I take it out, but I still have a hard time warming up to it where I am completely comfortable with it like the Glocks.
Neat guns, but this heat issue should be fixed. This is one of the reasons that I never really enjoyed shooting my Hk P7.
Ok, I'm looking at this more on my M&P.
If you place your thumb on the TD lever while shooting, the force will slightly tilt the TD lever upwards, and the front upper corner of the TD lever will slightly contact and drag on the slide. This is the type of metal on metal contact that will heat up very quickly.
Is there any wear on the front upper corner of your TD lever?
My two-handed grip puts my support hand thumb ahead of the TD lever so it never showed up as an issue in my experience yet. But just doing some manual manipulation, I picked up on this point of metal on metal contact pretty quickly. And resting your support hand thumb on the TD lever on my gun would probably heat up FAST. Want to try this live fire.
Ok, I'm looking at this more on my M&P.
If you place your thumb on the TD lever while shooting, the force will slightly tilt the TD lever upwards, and the front upper corner of the TD lever will slightly contact and drag on the slide. This is the type of metal on metal contact that will heat up very quickly.
Is there any wear on the front upper corner of your TD lever?
My two-handed grip puts my support hand thumb ahead of the TD lever so it never showed up as an issue in my experience yet. But just doing some manual manipulation, I picked up on this point of metal on metal contact pretty quickly. And resting your support hand thumb on the TD lever on my gun would probably heat up FAST. Want to try this live fire.
No wear noticed. Shot 300 rounds tonight without issue. Rolled my thumb further forward and problem solved. Managed some decent groups at 25 yards. Still refining my trigger pull as I tend to jerk it every few shots. Aside from that all is well!
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