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EzGoingKev
10-01-13, 12:55
First off - I am no authority on anything and am not saying that Glock is issue free. I am sharing some of my own personal observations.

Incident #1 -
I am at the range shooting with a friend that is a LEO. I am shooting an earlier (non-LCI) gen 3 G23 with an x300 installed. All the mag springs were replaced with Wolff +10% springs and the mags have a mix of #8 and #9 followers. Some of the followers are new.

I shot a few hundred rounds without any issues. My friend and I trade off - I shoot his issued SIG and he uses my Glock. Right off the bat he has non-stop failure to feed issues and cannot get the pistol to run. I took back and it was running like a sewing machine for me. IIRC I pulled the light off and he was fine.

Up until this point I had not believed in the grip issue. Now I see two different shooters running the same gun. One has no issues one has nothing but issues. The variable is the user.

Incident #2 -
As I am typing this my sister is at the range with the same G23 but with the x300 removed. She has never shot a Glock. She texted me advising the brass is going all over the place including hitting her in the head.

In the past month I have run about 350 rounds through this pistol (w/ the x300 installed) without a single issue. I have shot it. I let two first time shooters try it on two different occasions without a single issue. I am 99.9% certain if I went to the range right now and shot it I would not have any ejection issues.

Again same pistol, another user.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-01-13, 13:22
First off - I am no authority on anything and am not saying that Glock is issue free. I am sharing some of my own personal observations.

Incident #1 -
I am at the range shooting with a friend that is a LEO. I am shooting an earlier (non-LCI) gen 3 G23 with an x300 installed. All the mag springs were replaced with Wolff +10% springs and the mags have a mix of #8 and #9 followers. Some of the followers are new.

I shot a few hundred rounds without any issues. My friend and I trade off - I shoot his issued SIG and he uses my Glock. Right off the bat he has non-stop failure to feed issues and cannot get the pistol to run. I took back and it was running like a sewing machine for me. IIRC I pulled the light off and he was fine.

Up until this point I had not believed in the grip issue. Now I see two different shooters running the same gun. One has no issues one has nothing but issues. The variable is the user.

Incident #2 -
As I am typing this my sister is at the range with the same G23 but with the x300 removed. She has never shot a Glock. She texted me advising the brass is going all over the place including hitting her in the head.

In the past month I have run about 350 rounds through this pistol (w/ the x300 installed) without a single issue. I have shot it. I let two first time shooters try it on two different occasions without a single issue. I am 99.9% certain if I went to the range right now and shot it I would not have any ejection issues.

Again same pistol, another user.

Not sure I would ever place my trust in a pistol that can only be shot by one person. It's indicative of a problem when any minor changes in grip are causing failures. What happens when you need to fire one handed? I'd say your pistol has an issue.

DreadPirateMoyer
10-01-13, 13:23
The Glock ejection issues are with the 9mm lineup: 17, 19, and 26.

EzGoingKev
10-01-13, 13:45
Not sure I would ever place my trust in a pistol that can only be shot by one person.

Go back and re-read my post.

Multiple people have shot that pistol without issues. Including myself and the previous owner, nine people have fired the pistol. Two out of that nine have experienced issues.


What happens when you need to fire one handed?

I have shot it one handed in both my right and left hands without issue.

Hmac
10-01-13, 13:55
Are we going to go back again and try to pin Glock's malfunctioning 9mm's on technique?

EzGoingKev
10-01-13, 13:58
Are we going to go back again and try to pin Glock's malfunctioning 9mm's on technique?

The G23 is .40 S&W, not 9mm.

All I am saying is that technique can be an issue. I never believed it but have seen it for myself.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-01-13, 13:59
Are we going to go back again and try to pin Glock's malfunctioning 9mm's on technique?

Thats the feeling I get from this post. I understand the OP said it was just his experiences, but if people are going to continue to try to pin this on anything else but the MFG in question...then I quit.

LEO doesnt know how to shoot a pistol to the point where it won't malfunction? Not all LEO's are gun guys, but most have enough shooting experience that they do not automatically induce malfunctions.

Should technique be an issue in a modern defensive pistol? Is that something we are willing to accept with modern manufacturing?

PalmettoPrecision
10-01-13, 14:08
Thats the feeling I get from this post. I understand the OP said it was just his experiences, but if people are going to continue to try to pin this on anything else but the MFG in question...then I quit.

LEO doesnt know how to shoot a pistol to the point where it won't malfunction? Not all LEO's are gun guys, but most have enough shooting experience that they do not automatically induce malfunctions.

Should technique be an issue in a modern defensive pistol? Is that something we are willing to accept with modern manufacturing?

+1

Unacceptable.

Guns-up.50
10-01-13, 14:23
Thats the feeling I get from this post. I understand the OP said it was just his experiences, but if people are going to continry to pin this on anything else but the MFG in question...then I quit.

LEO doesnt know how to shoot a pistol to the point where it won't malfunction? Not all LEO's are gun guys, but most have enough shooting experience that they do not automatically induce malfunctions.

Should technique be an issue in a modern defensive pistol? Is that something we are willing to accept with modern manufacturing?

I agree with you, however as far as op goes any variations in ammo i have a 17 and 19 both near 95%-100% guns a year ago all the ammo i have this year has been problematic to say the least. I wouldnt say this is only Ammo but it seems so.

RIGPIG
10-01-13, 14:31
Take the extra power springs out. If that's all you've changed, that's your variable, not the other shooters. If it runs fine on stock springs, leave it be. The only reason I see for extra power springs is in a 9mm where the user is shooting a lot of NATO or +p/+p+ loads.

Guns-up.50
10-01-13, 14:43
Take the extra power springs out. that's all you've changed, that's your variable, not the other shooters. If it runs fine on stock springs, leave it be. The only reason I see for extra power springs is in a 9mm where the user is shooting a lot of NATO or +p/+p+ loads.

This would be true, however the 10% are mag springs not The action spring ..

steyrman13
10-01-13, 14:44
Take the extra power springs out. If that's all you've changed, that's your variable, not the other shooters. If it runs fine on stock springs, leave it be. The only reason I see for extra power springs is in a 9mm where the user is shooting a lot of NATO or +p/+p+ loads.

23 is a .40. It works fine with the extra power springs for all but two people. Limp writing can be a cause of the issues. Not everyone can shoot a .40 or a .45 correctly.

Abraham
10-01-13, 16:03
I shoot my G3 G19 with no BTF. 300/500 rounds at a time, ah, before the ammo scarcity...

I shoot my wife's G3 G19 and I get BTF.

It aint cuz of limp wristing...

steyrman13
10-01-13, 16:04
I shoot my G3 G19 with no BTF. 300/500 rounds at a time, ah, before the ammo scarcity...

I shoot my wife's G3 G19 and I get BTF.

It aint cuz of limp wristing...

I said "A" cause. Not always the cause. Weak springs, loose extractor, ejector angle, ejection port angle or height all play to it sometimes too

EzGoingKev
10-01-13, 16:24
I shoot my G3 G19 with no BTF. 300/500 rounds at a time, ah, before the ammo scarcity...

I shoot my wife's G3 G19 and I get BTF.

It aint cuz of limp wristing...
I have a 3rd gen G17 that I was getting erratic ejection with few BTF every time I shot it. I changed all the springs and it still did it. I then installed a 30274 ejector and it has been good to go.

I am not saying that Glock does not have issues with their pistols. I never believed that there was such a thing as operator induced issues but experienced has shown me otherwise.

chriscw81
10-01-13, 17:34
Fwiw, I'm currently sporting a burn next to my eye where hot brass landed in between my head and safety glasses. I was shooting my G27 gen 4 I bought 2 months ago new. It was good ammo too. I'm definitely not new to guns, either, and all the other glocks I've shot(admittedly not that many) did not have BTF problems. Maybe I just have bad luck. I tried to resist even commenting because there are 100's of forum threads discussing the glock issues....I just couldn't help myself haha

Chris





Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

RIGPIG
10-01-13, 18:21
23 is a .40. It works fine with the extra power springs for all but two people. Limp writing can be a cause of the issues. Not everyone can shoot a .40 or a .45 correctly.

No shit. I have a 22, 23, and 35. Read the quote again.

ST911
10-01-13, 18:31
OP- What ammo is involved here?

Everyone else- Let's keep this about the OP's gun, or within narrow, directly relevant range thereof. We have a bunch of other Glock ejection threads already underway.

C4IGrant
10-01-13, 20:25
Are we going to go back again and try to pin Glock's malfunctioning 9mm's on technique?

Glock tried to do this to Ken Hackathorn (once). Said his issues were caused by limp wristing. :rolleyes:



C4

C4IGrant
10-01-13, 20:34
First, if a pistol works some of the time for some of the shooters, I don't want it. That is simply way to picky for me.

Second, in the event that you lose grip strength or cannot hold a pistol a certain way, do you really want a gun that possibly won't work? No.

In order to prove the theory about some shooters getting malfunctions and others not, you would have to:

1. Use the same ammo for every shooter (from the same lot preferably).
2. Use the exact same magazine.
3. Everyone fire the same amount of rounds.
4. Gun is cleaned and lubed prior to each person shooting it



C4

Frailer
10-01-13, 22:47
First, I think there is a problem with many pistols, and I think the fault lies with Glock.

That said, I have a Glock 17 with a few thousand rounds through it that shoots fine for me, but it will occasionally toss brass to my son's forehead (with the same mags and ammo, BTW).

He isn't limp-wristing the gun, nor is he doing anything else wrong. The gun just doesn't work properly for him.

It isn't inconceivable that there are shooter-specific factors involved.

PatrioticDisorder
10-01-13, 22:55
The Glock ejection issues are with the 9mm lineup: 17, 19, and 26.

Add the 34 as well it isn't exempt and the 19 is by far the worst offender (and unfortunately the most popular model)... But the 9mms are definitely not the only Glock models that are having BTF issues, .40s, .357sig and .45ACPs having issues as well. I haven't heard anything about 10mm but who knows, maybe some of them are having issues as well. I don't trust new Glocks at all right now, unfortunately.

EzGoingKev
10-01-13, 23:31
First, if a pistol works some of the time for some of the shooters, I don't want it. That is simply way to picky for me.

The pistol has worked 100% of the time for me and others that have shot it. Two out of nine people have had issues.


Second, in the event that you lose grip strength or cannot hold a pistol a certain way, do you really want a gun that possibly won't work? No.

I tried holding it loose and all kinds of ways and could not get it to malfunction.


In order to prove the theory about some shooters getting malfunctions and others not, you would have to:

1. Use the same ammo for every shooter (from the same lot preferably).
2. Use the exact same magazine.
3. Everyone fire the same amount of rounds.
4. Gun is cleaned and lubed prior to each person shooting it

1 & 2 - For the time I shot with my buddy we were both shooting 180 grain Aguila ammo from the same magazines. I have no idea what my sister was shooting today.

3. At the rate my buddy was going we would have camp there overnight. I had shot a few hundred rounds without a hitch. My buddy picked up the pistol and just had non-stop failure to feeds. I took the pistol from him and fired the rest of the mag in the gun without a single issue. Handed him back the gun and it went back to being unusable.

He tried different mags but it did it with every single mag. I took the pistol back and fired off another 156 rounds without a single issue. He tried the pistol again and had issues.

4. I did not clean and lube the pistol for each user. I started with a dirty pistol, handed my buddy a dirtier pistol to shoot, and shot an even dirtier pistol.

This was not a planned test or anything, the issue just popped up at the range. I had no idea this was going to happen.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-02-13, 01:01
The pistol has worked 100% of the time for me and others that have shot it. Two out of nine people have had issues.

I tried holding it loose and all kinds of ways and could not get it to malfunction.

1 & 2 - For the time I shot with my buddy we were both shooting 180 grain Aguila ammo from the same magazines. I have no idea what my sister was shooting today.

3. At the rate my buddy was going we would have camp there overnight. I had shot a few hundred rounds without a hitch. My buddy picked up the pistol and just had non-stop failure to feeds. I took the pistol from him and fired the rest of the mag in the gun without a single issue. Handed him back the gun and it went back to being unusable.

He tried different mags but it did it with every single mag. I took the pistol back and fired off another 156 rounds without a single issue. He tried the pistol again and had issues.

4. I did not clean and lube the pistol for each user. I started with a dirty pistol, handed my buddy a dirtier pistol to shoot, and shot an even dirtier pistol.

This was not a planned test or anything, the issue just popped up at the range. I had no idea this was going to happen.

IMO, either your gun HAS an issue, or your buddy is a witch.

T2C
10-02-13, 01:23
Where do you place your thumbs when you grip the pistol compared to your shooting buddy who was having problems? Do you both do it the same way or differently?

C4IGrant
10-02-13, 08:26
The pistol has worked 100% of the time for me and others that have shot it. Two out of nine people have had issues.

Or you simply don't have enough rounds through it yet to discover a problem. If 2 out of the 9 people have problems, that is 22%! Way too high for me.



This was not a planned test or anything, the issue just popped up at the range. I had no idea this was going to happen.

Yes, we get that. What I said is if you wanted to do a more scientific test, follow my instructions.


C4