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View Full Version : Is this a good trade?



WickedWillis
10-18-13, 14:15
Hey guys, so here is my question. I am looking at doing a trade for one of my favorite handguns of all time. I have a Sig Sauer P220 railed, in great condition with 2 magazines, and I am looking at trading it with the Streamlight TLR1 on it, plus $150 for an HK USP 45 with the mepro night sights and 3 12-rd HK mags. The gun looks to be in very good condition. My question is, am I getting a good deal here? Or is it too much for the HK?

britishtq
10-18-13, 14:46
I would do it but I live in ca where getting a hk45 can only be done ppt and they are going for about $1000 stock. Even in another state I might do it, I love the hk's.

Kain
10-18-13, 14:49
Personal opinion, from what I have seen used .45 USPs going for with nightsites and the newer 220s with rails, it is too much. Even trade, pistol for pistol sure, maybe a little cash ~100 at the very most maybe would be worth it. But the Sig plus the light and cash I think you are getting screwed personally unless there is something I am missing about the USP.

WickedWillis
10-18-13, 15:17
Personal opinion, from what I have seen used .45 USPs going for with nightsites and the newer 220s with rails, it is too much. Even trade, pistol for pistol sure, maybe a little cash ~100 at the very most maybe would be worth it. But the Sig plus the light and cash I think you are getting screwed personally unless there is something I am missing about the USP.

See this is the exact type of response I was hoping for on here. The more I though about it, the more it made sense that I am giving up alot here. Maybe I just have my head in the clouds here a little bit because it is my dream handgun, but, I also I can get it new on some websites for as little as $890. I appreciate the feedback thus far.

SteveL
10-18-13, 16:33
I'm inclined to agree with Kain. If it was an HK45 vs a USP .45 it might be a different story.

I used to have a USP .45 and while it's a nice gun and very easy to shoot well, it's a big blocky gun which is now a dated design and doesn't have the greatest ergos. I also never liked that it doesn't have a standard size rail on it.

WickedWillis
10-18-13, 17:29
The USP was one of the 1st .45 ACP handguns I ever fired when I was younger. It is a large handgun (especially for me with smaller hands) but I've always held it as the gold standard for .45's. I enjoy my P220 and it's currently my nightstand gun, and I shoot it well. How much of a difference is it between the USP 45 and the HK45?

Army Chief
10-18-13, 18:19
Well, in terms of intent at least, there is a very great difference between the USP and HK45. I'm not an active user of either, but the HK45 was/is a pretty purpose-built gun that probably warrants some separate research. I've a fairly low level of interest in USPs, which is not leveled as a criticism at all, but the HK45 and HK45C strike me as worthy additions to any tool kit. For me, the HK45C is really the more relevant of the two, however, as the HK45 is something of a behemoth, and not something I would be likely to use for what usually pass for practical purposes in a sidearm (most notably, carry).

Then again, I've got a Colt Commander strapped to my side at the moment, so what do I know? ;)

AC

Trajan
10-18-13, 18:23
Design wise, isn't the HK45 the exact same as the USP with the USP compact recoil assembly? That was at least my impression.

ralph
10-18-13, 18:24
The USP was one of the 1st .45 ACP handguns I ever fired when I was younger. It is a large handgun (especially for me with smaller hands) but I've always held it as the gold standard for .45's. I enjoy my P220 and it's currently my nightstand gun, and I shoot it well. How much of a difference is it between the USP 45 and the HK45?

From a ergonomic standpoint, they are a light year apart.. The HK45 ergos are much more advanced.I'd say the newer HK45 is probably more accurate than the USP as well. I myself have a HK45ct, I'm not a fan of the stock DA/SA it came with. However, what little bit of shooting I've done with it, (mostly SA) showed that this is a accurate bastard. I had it converted to light LEM (my P-2000 and P-30 are also light LEM guns) and had Trijicon HD's installed, Hopefully I'll get to the range this weekend to try this setup out. Back to the topic, between the two, I'd go HK45 every time, See if you can find a shop with one in stock, and look it over for yourself. I think you'll be surprised...The light LEM is probably the best trigger HK has.. HK's DA/SA triggers aren't as good as Sig's The one that came on my HK45ct was very heavy, probably about 12-14 lbs DA pull. SA pull was much nicer at around 4-5 lbs The light LEM give you a constent 4-5lb pull, but, with long but light pre travel. It's a different setup,hard for me to try to explain on the 'net.. you can convert a HK45 to LEM, and if you don't like it, convert it back..

WickedWillis
10-18-13, 18:37
From a ergonomic standpoint, they are a light year apart.. The HK45 ergos are much more advanced.I'd say the newer HK45 is probably more accurate than the USP as well. I myself have a HK45ct, I'm not a fan of the stock DA/SA it came with. However, what little bit of shooting I've done with it, (mostly SA) showed that this is a accurate bastard. I had it converted to light LEM (my P-2000 and P-30 are also light LEM guns) and had Trijicon HD's installed, Hopefully I'll get to the range this weekend to try this setup out. Back to the topic, between the two, I'd go HK45 every time, See if you can find a shop with one in stock, and look it over for yourself. I think you'll be surprised...The light LEM is probably the best trigger HK has.. HK's DA/SA triggers aren't as good as Sig's The one that came on my HK45ct was very heavy, probably about 12-14 lbs DA pull. SA pull was much nicer at around 4-5 lbs The light LEM give you a constent 4-5lb pull, but, with long but light pre travel. It's a different setup,hard for me to try to explain on the 'net.. you can convert a HK45 to LEM, and if you don't like it, convert it back..


I appreciate this overview on them. I handled a Mark 23 for the 1st time at my LGS the other day and that thing felt like it needed a shoulder strap or shooting sticks. I will try and get ahold of a HK45 or 45C this weekend and try them on for size. I know HK is synonymous with quality, as much as they are with the high cost of said quality. Thank you guys for all your views, and honest answers it's always appreciated.

britishtq
10-18-13, 21:11
Like I said, in CA it's an off foster gun and has higher value.

Sorry if that steered you the wrong way.

Striker
10-19-13, 12:53
Hey guys, so here is my question. I am looking at doing a trade for one of my favorite handguns of all time. I have a Sig Sauer P220 railed, in great condition with 2 magazines, and I am looking at trading it with the Streamlight TLR1 on it, plus $150 for an HK USP 45 with the mepro night sights and 3 12-rd HK mags. The gun looks to be in very good condition. My question is, am I getting a good deal here? Or is it too much for the HK?

My opinion is if you really want the gun, get the best deal you can on it. If it were me and I intended to shoot it a lot, I would get something other than a P220, which as I've learned tends to be somewhat fragile in comparison to other similar offerings. If I wasn't going to shoot it a lot, the HK doesn't offer anything to me that the Sig doesn't already have. Two more rounds isn't that big of a deal in my opinion. This is of course considering the Sig can take ten round mags.

Having shot the a P220, USP 45 and 45c, an HK45 and 45c, I'll say that IMO the HK45 is the standout of the bunch. It's accurate. Ergos are an evolutionary step above the USP, handles better and is more durable than the Sig in my opinion and is the only TDA HK I've ever shot that has a Sig like feel to the trigger. The down side is the aforementioned size of the gun. It's a give to a get and if it's going to be a conceal carry gun, I personally wouldn't get the HK45FS or the USP FS. Can you conceal them? Yep, but there are better choices for that job.

Between the HK45c and USPc, I don't see a whole lot of difference in TDA. Neither is my idea of small and both have somewhat the same feel to me. I think if you like one, you'll probably be fine with the other as well. If you're going to mount a light or prices are relatively close to each other, definitely get the 45c.

Just my opinion.

firerocketjump
10-20-13, 13:52
Having shot both the USP and the HK45 I feel like the HK 45 is definitely a step in the right direction from H&K.
The ergonomics felt much better than the USP as it felt really blocky to me. I really like the finger grooves in the HK 45.

Now since you did shoot an HK USP when you were younger if it had any sentimental value to get one, id do the trade but maybe keep your streamlight to make it an even trade?

SteveL
10-20-13, 14:44
Just remember that if you end up making the trade but keeping your TLR1 you'll need an adapter like this (http://www.surefire.com/catalog/product/view/id/261/s/mr09-mounting-rail/category/72/) if you want to use the TLR1 on the USP. Otherwise you'll have to use a USP-specifc light, which will probably seem rather weak compared to newer designs like the X300/X300 Ultra. I had one when I had my USP and it worked well. Being that it's from Surefire the fit and finish on the adapter were top notch, but as with all things Surefire it's a bit expensive. I think one or two other companies make similar adapters but I've never seen one in person. Also be aware that if you go with the USP, adapter, and light mounted then you may face something of a challenge finding a holster. Just something to think about.

WickedWillis
10-21-13, 10:46
Well with some great insight, and really well made points thanks to this thread, I decided to decline the trade and keep my P220. I did however get to handle a P30 in 9MM (not the same size as the 45, I'm aware) and I have never held a handgun that felt so natural in hand. It pointed well, had overall amazing ergo's and actually felt like it was created with human hands in mind. I might just have to start creating an HK fund.

SteveL
10-21-13, 11:01
Not an HK, but be sure to handle a Walther PPQ before you make any final decision.

WickedWillis
10-21-13, 11:09
Not an HK, but be sure to handle a Walther PPQ before you make any final decision.

It's funny you mention that, because the next gun the gentleman behind the counter handed me the PPQ M2 in .40 and did the whole "If you like that HK, you'll love this." And it felt awesome as well. And I prefer the "American" style magazine release but most likely I could get used to the HK mag release with as much practice as I have on the former. I am going to try and rent both at a local range soon and get some trigger time under my belt.

SteveL
10-21-13, 12:06
One of the things I really liked about the USP while I had it was the paddle mag release so when I heard they were going to release the PPQ M2 I went right out and hunted down an original version in 9mm because at the time nobody was sure whether the paddle release would still be available or not. Either way it's a great pistol no matter which version you prefer. I also like that it's a striker fired gun as opposed to the SA/DA HK.

WickedWillis
10-21-13, 12:18
One of the things I really liked about the USP while I had it was the paddle mag release so when I heard they were going to release the PPQ M2 I went right out and hunted down an original version in 9mm because at the time nobody was sure whether the paddle release would still be available or not. Either way it's a great pistol no matter which version you prefer. I also like that it's a striker fired gun as opposed to the SA/DA HK.

How is the trigger on the PPQ?

Army Chief
10-21-13, 12:20
How is the trigger on the PPQ?

Strongest feature of the gun in the eyes of most, and probably best-in-class for a polymer gun right now. The trigger is kind of the whole point with the PPQ.

AC

SteveL
10-21-13, 12:26
IMO it's excellent. In addition to what Army Chief posted above be sure to check out what LAV has to say about it as well.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=102115&highlight=walther

WickedWillis
10-21-13, 12:29
IMO it's excellent. In addition to what Army Chief posted above be sure to check out what LAV has to say about it as well.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=102115&highlight=walther

Very cool. Thank you guys for actually taking the time and answer all of these questions. I've always been a Glock/Sig guy (Recently S&W M&P), but I have been hankering to get into something different, and I mentioned my fond HK memories earlier. I am damn excited to go out and put some rounds down range on the Walther and the P30. It's going to be a good week!