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DuGaul
05-06-08, 12:09
Is there any difference between the brass casings for .556 and .223 ammo?

Which manufacturers supply .556 brass?

Is it possible to buy military grade brass on the commercial market for reloading purposes? Who sells it?

Thanks

jmart
05-06-08, 15:29
5.56 brass runs lighter than commercial brass. LC cases run 91-93 grains, and every other case I've weighed weighs more. Some PMP stuff is 110 grains or more.

I'm not certain, but what I think distinguishes LC cases from others is the way it's heat treated and annealed. LC pockets don't expand as much on firing as other cases, commercial Federal being the worst in my experience comparing primarily Rem, Win, LC and Federal. I beieve LC cases are harder around the base thyan other cases, but necks and shoulders are nicely annealed. LC also crimps their primer pockets, so when relaoding tehse you have to either ream the crimp away or swage it.

I'm not aware of anywhere you can buy virgin LC brass, but some places have carried once-fired LC brass. Not sure if they still have supplies or if their sources have dried up. Many folks just buy some LC XM-193 and save the brass, and/or scrounge brass at public ranges. Be careful though what you scrounge, I limit my scrounging to folks who are shooting factory. If I can see them load directly from newly cased ammo, I know it' only once fired. Just politely ask them if they mind you recovering their brass. If they don't reload, virtually anyone is accomodating in this regard, just be courteous about it and wait until they are downrange or leave for the day. Another source could be from a PD, if they don't already have a plan to supply a reloader or sell it for scrap.

DuGaul
05-06-08, 15:55
Thank you for this info!

LC stands for what?

So, if military brass is lighter than commercial brass, you would think that new commercial brass would be safer for "hot loads" than reloaded military brass? Or am I missing something?

Shihan
05-06-08, 15:57
Thank you for this info!

LC stands for what?

So, if military brass is lighter than commercial brass, you would think that new commercial brass would be safer for "hot loads" than reloaded military brass? Or am I missing something?


LC= Lake City the prime mil contractor for 5.56 and 7.62.

jmart
05-06-08, 16:39
So, if military brass is lighter than commercial brass, you would think that new commercial brass would be safer for "hot loads" than reloaded military brass? Or am I missing something?

That's where the heat treating and annealing come in. Heavier brass that is soft won't take as much pressure.

Heavier brass limits powder capacity which limits velocity.

LC is hard where it needs to be hard, soft where it needs to be soft, and has good powder capacity.

HolyRoller
05-06-08, 16:45
Hey DuGaul, great to see you here. If I may be a smarty-pants for a minute, isn't ".556" pretty small? That's just over half a millimeter. How about 5.56? That's about .223 caliber. I'm just messing with you, we all misplace a decimal point now and then.

I pick up any and all brass I can find at my firing point at highpower rifle matches. Civilian brass will nearly always be headstamped (that's the writing on the flat part of the case that surrounds the primer) with the caliber and maker. Military brass will not be headstamped with the caliber; they figure you can just tell. The only problem I've encountered with military 5.56/.223 brass is sometimes the primer pocket is just a little too small and I can't seat the new primer, so I discard the case, figuring it was worth what I paid for it.

Your reloading dies should squeeze the brass back to acceptable dimensions whether it's military or civilian in origin. I use a small-base X-Die from RCBS for sizing .223. Small-base means it sizes the case to minimum dimensions, and X-Die is something RCBS invented to keep the brass from getting longer with each resizing and having to be trimmed back. Trimming brass is the worst PITA in reloading until you get rich enough to buy a power trimmer. If you decide trimming brass is too much of a bother and take chances with overlength brass, you may spend a lot of time getting stuck cartridges out of your chamber ... don't ask me how I know :-\

DuGaul
05-07-08, 08:03
HollyRoller - I'm outfitting a battalion of ants.

I'm surprised they can anneal only one end of the casing, considering that brass is very thermally conductive. I'll have to try that at home with some tongs and a blowtorch.

markm
05-07-08, 08:38
I'll have to try that at home with some tongs and a blowtorch.

Actually I've heard the home annealing method is to set the case rim down in like a half inch of water. Then heat the neck, and knock the case over in the water.

I have seen no need to do this as brass will generally separate before the necks crack if you load hot.

DuGaul
05-07-08, 08:50
Well, I was kidding about tongs and blowtorch. It looks to me like it would be darn near impossible to anneal only one end of a brass casing without a special machine to control the process very tightly.

DuGaul
05-07-08, 08:52
Back to the original subject, is it safe to put 5.56 loads in commercial brass - say for a 75 or 77 gr bullet?

markm
05-07-08, 09:06
Yes. Load away.

markm
05-07-08, 09:09
Well, I was kidding about tongs and blowtorch. It looks to me like it would be darn near impossible to anneal only one end of a brass casing without a special machine to control the process very tightly.

Not at all. You don't need to hit the caseneck with heat for very long at all. Only a little heat with conduct downward, and the base of the case sitting in water will limit the heat transfer. Plus when you immediately knock the brass over in the water, it's a done deal.

DuGaul
05-07-08, 09:41
Cool.

markm
05-07-08, 10:02
You won't have any issues as long as you have a SAFE LOAD.

I personally don't load to 5.56 velocities because it's not generally the optimal accuracy. And most of my shooting is inside of 200 yards, so there's not need to burn a bunch of powder achieving velocity. Plus loading that hot for general purpose ammo just puts more wear on your brass and weapon.

techo
05-07-08, 11:36
I have been wondering why the necks of the 400 rounds of brand new Hornady 5.56 75gr TAP I just got yesterday were like tarnished and discolored when the cheap Remington looks new and polished. So is this because the TAP is annealed? This is a sign of better quality?

markm
05-07-08, 11:45
I
This is a sign of better quality?

YES!

Although some manufacturors polish the annealing discoloration off. I prefer to see it there.

techo
05-07-08, 11:54
That really good to hear considering I spent $389 for the ammo.
I was looking at it last night, thinking...damn,old crap.

markm
05-07-08, 13:34
I'll trade you some shiney ammo for it.. straight across! :cool:

techo
05-07-08, 13:46
I'll trade you some shiney ammo for it.. straight across! :cool:
Thanks anyway, I'm good to go now.:)

5pins
05-08-08, 12:30
Graf & Sons has new Lake City brass.
http://www.grafs.com/product/187033

It’s my understanding that all necked down rifle brass is annealed during the forming process. It’s necessary so the brass doesn’t get work hardened. Some manufactures clean it off at the end so we can have nice looking brass and ammo.

markm
05-08-08, 12:48
Good Grief! Those prices are RIDICULOUS!

No brass is worth those prices. Shit! My entire handload cost less per round than what they want for brass. :eek:

HolyRoller
05-08-08, 19:20
HollyRoller - I'm outfitting a battalion of ants.
Now that's funny!

My loads are simple: 24 grains of Reloder 15 with 77gr match bullets, and 25gr RE-15 with 75gr match bullets. The primers become kind of flat but there are no other signs of high pressure and I haven't blown out any primers, yet. These loads work with any brass. You'll hear a lot of shooters get all wrapped around the axle, weighing cases or weighing the amount of water that fills up cases, trying to get everything exactly the same. True, consistency is the key to all accuracy, but there are some things that extensive testing and experience have shown not to make a hill of beans. Weighing brass is one of them; it doesn't matter in accuracy even at 600 yards and probably not at 1000 and beyond.

DuGaul
05-12-08, 10:33
Why do you use a smaller load with the heavier bullet (77g)?

UVvis
05-12-08, 10:58
Why do you use a smaller load with the heavier bullet (77g)?

Heavier bullets move more slowly and take up more space in the case. So using less powder you get similar pressures to lower mass bullets and larger powder charges. In general.

Also from some barrels certain bullets fly best around a particular velocity.

markm
05-12-08, 11:25
Why do you use a smaller load with the heavier bullet (77g)?

If you have to ask that question, you had better do a lot more reading and research on the topic of reloading.