Mixed magazine capacities

[tog]

I searched but didn't see anything about this so I will ask. For safety reasons I like to stay with the magazines of a certain capacity-round counts. The Hi-Power is a 13 rounder and that is what I use, but lately I have been looking at the Mec-Gar 15 round magazines. I tend to be on the absent-minded side and am afraid I will forget and stop at 13 rounds while I still have two rounds to go. Have any of you every had a problem using magazines of mixed capacity?

[FeltaDorce]

It has never been suggested to ANYONE that they "know how many rounds are in the gun" to accomplish safe handling. Ever. If having an extra 2 round capacity in your magazines is going to cause you to accidentally mishandle a loaded weapon, then I would suggest that your safety practices are insufficient for ANY firearm. Drop the magazine, clear the chamber, inspect visually. EVERY TIME you handle a firearm. Magazine problem solved, also general safety with firearms is much improved.

[ST911]

"For safety reasons" is not clear. What are you concerned about?

During some range sessions, I'll load mags with different amounts of ammo to provide stoppage opportunities at intervals that are irregular and harder to anticipate.

[Airhasz]

It has never been suggested to ANYONE that they "know how many rounds are in the gun" to accomplish safe handling. Ever. If having an extra 2 round capacity in your magazines is going to cause you to accidentally mishandle a loaded weapon, then I would suggest that your safety practices are insufficient for ANY firearm. Drop the magazine, clear the chamber, inspect visually. EVERY TIME you handle a firearm. Magazine problem solved, also general safety with firearms is much improved.

This cannot be stated or read often enough, thanks for taking the time to type it...:shout:

[Kain]

I am confused. Are you worried about not knowing how many rounds are in the mags while loading or shooting? If the former, count out before loading the mags. If the later stop counting rounds. I know many who carry glocks and carry flush fit mags in the gun and depending on the gun a compact or full size mag as their reload and have never had issues during training. Indeed one of the guys I have shot with and who I have done a number of drills with, runs a 19 and will run a 15 round mag in the gun and 17 rounders as his reloads so he is compatible with everyone running Glock 17s and we have never had any issues.

[tog]

Thanks guys! I have a habit of mentally keeping up with rounds fired and rounds in the mag. Is this a bad habit? If so please teach me how to overcome this. Thanks again.

[Kain]

Thanks guys! I have a habit of mentally keeping up with rounds fired and rounds in the mag. Is this a bad habit? If so please teach me how to overcome this. Thanks again.

Biggest issue I have with it, is that under stress you are not likely to be able to keep an accurate count. Reload when necessary or when time and cover permit. At least that has always been how I have been taught and trained.

[Trajan]

Thanks guys! I have a habit of mentally keeping up with rounds fired and rounds in the mag. Is this a bad habit? If so please teach me how to overcome this. Thanks again.

In a high stress environment, it is very likely that you will have no idea how many rounds you have fired. Your brain will be on information overload.

Practice a few drills that require magazines with different number of rounds in them. A good example would be Grant's number two drill: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?113035-G-amp-R-Tactical-Drill-1-amp-2

[arptsprt]

It is my strong opinion that yes, this is a very bad habit. You are developing a bad training scar for yourself if you are ever in a situation where you need to deploy your firearm for real. You might find yourself worrying about your round count while losing focus on neutralizing the threat. One typically resorts to the way they train when the stress level goes up. In general, I would recommend you adjust your training and not worry about counting rounds fired or rounds in the mag. Of course, there are always exceptions with various drills that call for x amount of rounds downrange or if taking a course where your instructor requires x number of rounds in the mag -or some combination thereof. As someone has mentioned, NOT knowing the number of rounds in your mag is a great way to practice reloads, etc... For what it's worth.

[ST911]

Thanks guys! I have a habit of mentally keeping up with rounds fired and rounds in the mag. Is this a bad habit? If so please teach me how to overcome this. Thanks again.

If you're thinking about the rounds in your magazine, you're not thinking about the important aspects of your shooting. I'd bet you're counting holes in your target as well.

The easiest answer is: Stop doing it. Just shoot. Mix up your mags, quantities, and shoot what comes up. Get good at your reloads and execute them as needed.

[tog]

I'm beginning to see the picture. It's easy to fall into a pattern when at the range and just putting lead into paper. I've been working on stance, grip, front sight, etc, and got into the habit of counting rounds and yes counting holes in targets as well. I need to work in a new direction and Grants drills (as well as the input here) have given me some ideas. I especially liked the three mags being loaded with various rounds and not knowing which is in your gun. I think I will start there.

[48J]

Counting while you shot is not in and of itself a bad thing. Counting can assist you with the development of a rhythm. Rhythm is important for lots of reasons. I would be much more concerned about developing a habit of observing your handy work while you shoot. Work on your drills. Ingrain sight acquisition, press out, and trigger squeeze. Don't worry about looking for holes in the target.

[samuse]

I'd stay stick with the 13 rounders, the followers are better and IMO they're a more reliable magazine in the Hi Power.

Heed all other advice in this thread.

[JSantoro]

HARDWARE
If you've mags of differing capacity and they have no differing feature that makes them easily distinguishable from one another, and you want to be able to distinguish different capacities, MAKE a distinguishing feature that won't impact function. Marks using high-vis colors of paint-pen, for instance....

Having done that, let's say you want 13 rounds per mag, no matter what, and you have a mix of 15 and 13-rounders. Why count rounds jamming mags? Stuff them ALL full, then dump 2 rounds out of your marked 15-rounders, and ONLY those. (Just an example. I don't know P35s particiularly well: Do those mags even have witness-holes...?)

SOFTWARE
Taking it back to the very general, developing patterns/rituals for the sake of having a ritual doesn't make much sense, but building rituals that serve a purpose...serves a purpose. Counting rounds during practice because you need to put X rounds on this tgt, and Y on the next, etc. = makes sense to keep track. If you're counting only for the sake of counting, you may be getting in your own way in regard to other aspects, as has been noed. Also noted: it's nigh-unsupportable under other, more caustic, circumstances.

If you're doing some given thing for no better reason than providing yourself some kind of mental woobie or similar...also fine, IF it's not ultimately detrimental. But, be honest enough with yourself about it to see what can or cannot be bad. If it doesn't help, but also doesn't hurt, it's merely highly advisable to dump a habit. If it's outright bad, there's no question.

EX: counting holes. I think the most common possible bad take-away from this habit is that the shooter may remain target-focused and is looking over the sights once he's seen/not-seen his hole(s), instead of focused on the front sight. Result: often, low shots that have nothing to do with anticipation of recoil or ambushing the trigger, i.e., wrong diagnosis and not always easy to catch unless somebody's standing practically in your face while you're shooting, and watching your eyes shift focus back and forth....or more importantly, NOT shift back to (or at least toward) the front sight as it should. If a shooter can look at how their rounds print, but still get back on his sights correctly, he's gonna limit how FAST he can shoot, because he's fretting about where the last round fired (which he no longer has any control over) went, instead of making best possible effort on the next shot (over which he still has some level of influence).

EX: counting rounds. If you're jamming mags to 13, then shooting 13, is it more effecient to count to 13....or to let your magazine followers and purpose-build and hopefully fully-functional slide-stop provide you with a visible/tactile indicator that the gun's empty (regardless of how many rounds you stuffed in it)...?

Ask some random stranger at the range to jam your mags with random numbers of rounds.....yes, it hurts the first time, but it soon starts to feel pretty good. ;)

[tog]

Thanks JSantoro and others for input. Very good advice. I can see where I'm going wrong. I count rounds and worry about where that last round went instead of concentrating on where the next round should go. I bet this is why my first 2 or 3 shots are in the center and then groups begin to open up. I have got a lot of work to do!

[jjw]

Thanks guys! I have a habit of mentally keeping up with rounds fired and rounds in the mag. Is this a bad habit? If so please teach me how to overcome this. Thanks again.

worry not in a shit storm all that accounting shit will go quickly away
i carried a bhp with 13 & 20 rd fac mags for a nmber of years in a number of wierd palces

guess if i was worreid about i would have carried a j-frame. i can count to 5

L.O.L.

jjw