View Full Version : Switching To M&P's. Now Which Model?
Father of 3
12-01-13, 21:08
After much debate and several sessions of outshooting my G19 Gen4 with M&P's, I have decided to make the switch. I have tired and tried to like the highly recommended midsize Glock models (mainly the 19 and 23) but could never seem to shoot them as well with them as the full size or even the subcompacts for that matter. I will be keeping my G17 but the 19 will be finding a new home.
The fact is I shoot the M&P's better with quicker follow up shots and have better overall shot placement. I have shot stock M&P's with the factory trigger and the lack of audible/tangible reset does not bother me and goes unnoticed in rapid fire drills. The APEX kits make them that much more exciting.
My decision on M&P's is set. However the model I will be replacing my G19 with is still undecided. The FS model is the same size as my G17. The compact is marginally bigger than the baby Glock and with the provided pinky extension roughly the same size as a midsize. Man wouldn't life be great if S&W made a G19 sized M&P!
For you guys that carry M&P on a daily basis CCW, which model do you carry, the FS or the compact?
My 9c is in my carry rotation.
It is a very nice little pistol and have zero complaints. I have no issues with the size of the grip, in fact it makes it easier to conceal. I've been carrying my HK P2KSK recently so I have no recent observations.
I EDC a Shield, which is probably of no help to you. If you really want to jump the shark, you can get the full size, a compact, and a shield, but if the compact works for you, then that might be the logical replacement.
I run the shield EDC just because the grip area is narrower, the length of the 4.25"wasn't an issue for me, but I the compact wasn't much smaller where I cared, and I shoot the FS so much better.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-01-13, 21:35
I have two FS M&Ps and they both carry about the same as my G19. I would probably go with the FS. The ergos are perfect, and 17 rounds is extremely nice to have on hand.
full size 9mm. interesting enough, its about the size of a G19 just with a slightly longer grip.
I usually carry a 9 compact, I do not feel as comfortable, especially in the summer, with dressing around a full size pistol.
The 45 compact is closer to the size of a G19, and to me, conceals just a bit easier than the Glock. If I feel a need to carry a .45 it is my first choice.
For both, I split my carry time between a Raven OWB or a VM2 IWB, depending on what I am doing and how I need to dress.
I have a CORE as my EDC, I also have Ga 9C (which sits unused) and a Shield as a BUG
Psalms144.1
12-02-13, 11:29
This is the precise reason why I haven't tried the M&P family in any serious way. Simply put, the FS M&P is just "too big" enough that I won't carry it concealed on a regular basis in warm weather, specifically due to the length of the grip. The Compact, on the other hand, is just "too small" enough for me to have a hard time with weapons manipulation, especially reloads, at speed.
As many, many, many others have noted, the M&P would be a no-brainer for me based on ergos alone, if S&W would just crank out a "mid-size" model that was dimensionally equivalent to the G19...
Regards,
Kevin
Dos Cylindros
12-02-13, 11:38
At work I carry the full size M&P 40 with X300 attached and two spare mags concealed all day. I carry in Raven Concealment gear on an Ares Gear ranger belt. While I have used this setup on my own time, I usually go with my M&P 9c. The 9c (or any of the compact M&P's) is bigger than the Glock 26/27 but smaller than the Glock 19/23. While I prefer the 19/23 size over the M&P compact for weapon manipulation, the M&Pc is not really that much of a trade off as long as the pinky extention is installed on the magazines. Lately I have been carrying an H&K P30 though. I would say go with the compact M&P as you have your bases covered in the full size area with the G17. Eventually, if you feel the need you can always pick up a full size M&P 9.
walkin' trails
12-02-13, 12:52
I have a full size 45 and 9. I used to carry the 45 daily in a Milt Sparks SSII. It concealed reasonably well. I now carry the 9 Boone. Not much difference. Faster follow-up shots were the same thing I notices when I first fires an M&P. Both of mine have decent factory triggers that smoothed out after a couple hundred rounds. Mine have a discernable reset.
Crow Hunter
12-02-13, 13:02
My brother used to have a M&P 9c with a safety.
I actually liked it better than the G19 for CCW and I LOVED the way it felt in my hand and I didn't mind the trigger at all.
I hated the safety and I couldn't hit anything with it though, while I had no trouble with a G26 and a short magazine.
I wouldn't want it for a "general purpose" CCW and open carry. I would prefer a G19 sized gun as well.
I have never handled/shot a full size.
9c is my EDC, and I shoot a 5" Pro (both 9mm) for USPSA and IDPA competition. Both guns have the Apex DCAEK in them. Considering the 3 rounds/3 seconds/3 yards "average" engagement - I occasionally will shoot the local IDPA club matches with the 9c and an IWB holster and still win those matches. I find very little practical difference out to 15-20yds with the compact with respect to hits or splits.
With the 9c I always use the finger extension on the 13 round magazines (especially in NPEs), and sometimes use a full size magazine with an X-Grip adapter in shadier areas or when I don't care as much if I print. I find my shirts tend to catch/bunch up on the back of the magazine sometimes. That inch and difference in the magazine profiles makes all the difference in the world for me W/R/T printing.
I am 5'9, 175, athletic build. YMMV.
I carry a .40 compact and finds it conceals very well. I have tried numerous Glock's and could never find one to fit my hand as well as the M&P.
I haven't had a problem with the short grip at all.
exiledtoIA
12-02-13, 16:27
I have the full size M&P 45. With proper clothing a 5'6" 145 lb male can CC one with no problems. I will admit it is easier during the colder months.
Are you set on a certain caliber?
I have both a M&P 9 MM and G19 and use them both as CCW options. I prefer carrying the M&P as I prefer the slightly longer grip. Good luck with your decision...
Father of 3
12-02-13, 18:53
Are you set on a certain caliber?
Not really. I have been considering 40 for availability. I have heard that with the M&P 40's since they were made around the 40S&W and then scaled down to 9mm that you can get a factory 9mm barrel for $70 and drop in with factory 9mm mags and run it. Phil Morden has a video on his YouTube about it.
Seems like I could have the capability to run both but I am not 100% sold on the 40 for the fact that I will have to buy separate ammo. However I could likely reload it whereas the G27 I owned I could not reload due to all bulging cases.
9mm offers faster follow up shots and 2 more rounds. But the 40 has less recoil IMO than the Gen4 G19 that I have been carrying. Theoretically I could have the 40 and still be in the realm of controllability I am accustom to.
But the 40 has less recoil IMO than the Gen4 G19 that I have been carrying. Theoretically I could have the 40 and still be in the realm of controllability I am accustom to.
Now that is interesting.
What drills have you done comparing the two, and what were your scores/times?
Father of 3
12-02-13, 20:18
Now that is interesting.
What drills have you done comparing the two, and what were your scores/times?
Our drills by no means were textbook nor did we have a shot timer. However we did have a stopwatch. Our "drills" were:
Two targets 5 quick rounds to empy, reload, 5 rounds.
Two targets with 2 rounds to chest, one to head on each target
Two targets 2 rounds fast to chest, 1 slow aimed headshot, 3 rounds quick on second target
One target slow fire 5 round group.
All done at both 10 and 15 yards.
Myself and two other shooters all avaraged faster (some only marginally but faster) times with the M&P FS40 shooting 180gr WWB and Blazers versus that of my G19 Gen4 shooting 115 gr WWB and UMC. My slow fire shots were better hits/ more consistent groups with the M&P. Rapid fire M&P, for me, was also better than G19.
Nothing scientific, just shooting buddys playing around.
ericridebike
12-02-13, 20:23
I have a 9c, 5" Pro in 9 , and FS 9 and love them all. The 9c conceals well with some versatility depending on which size mag you utilize. I like to carry a mag with the flat baseplate in the gun and then also carry a 17 rd spare with the x-grip adaptor.
Get on a timer and quantify it if you can. The difference between perception and reality can be significant.
Redbeardsong
12-02-13, 20:39
My EDC concealed is an M&P9 FS, with an M&P Shield and a Ruger SR9c filling in when I need deeper concealment options. I'll probably end up with an M&P9c but the SR9c fill the same role.
When I started carrying the FS, it felt enormous, but I've gotten used to concealing it and two spare mags. I love the size of the M&P45c, and would LOVE it in a 9mm, but can't see going from 17+1 to 8+1 for the half inch easier to conceal. Although the triggers do feel better on the M&P45's.
railpig314
12-02-13, 20:45
A lot of the P.D.'s in the Detroit area that went to the M&P switched back to Glock. I don't know what to tell you. I have carried Glock's for 15yrs. That weapon has never done me wrong. I think most of the trouble I have seen with Glock's is user error. Why would you put an after market trigger in a gun ur going to carry for a CCW weapon? I don't understand it? I think it is a poor choice to change out triggers. I have one more thing to say "Glock Perfection".......
What ever you decide on put an Apex trigger in it. You will never regret it.
BoringGuy45
12-02-13, 22:11
The FS M&P45 is pretty easy to conceal in all but summer clothes. For a full size, staggered .45, it's surprisingly small. The M&P9 is just slightly smaller than that.
I too wish that they'd make a 9 that was the same size as the M&P45c though, as I think the 45c is just about the perfect compromise between comfort and conceal-ability.
What ever you decide on put an Apex trigger in it. You will never regret it.
+1,000,000,000 on this. The DCAEK is the best $90 you'll ever spend on an M&P.
Man wouldn't life be great if S&W made a G19 sized M&P!
For you guys that carry M&P on a daily basis CCW, which model do you carry, the FS or the compact?
They do, as others have said it's the 45 compact. I carry one almost everyday in a Incog and it's perfect. You don't need 82 rounds to be effective! I also carry the full size 45 and its pretty easy to cover up as well.
babypanther
12-03-13, 00:25
I have a FS M&P in 40. It has the Apex DCAEK and the RAM installed. I carry it as much as possible. My mother-in-law has the M&P 9c. I was able to put a few rounds through it recently, and I would LOVE to find one for a good price with a thumb safety.
Last week I finally tracked down a FS M&P 45 w/TS thru Gallery of Guns. I cleaned & inspected it & measured the trigger pull (9#) !! Disgusting! I went to the range Sunday & fired about 200 rounds. Reliable w/good ammo. It did not run with my 200 gr. lead semi-wadcutter reloads. I'll forgive that & it actually seems pretty accurate while shooting from a braced position, but it's tough shooting offhand with that 9# trigger. I'll have to put in a Apex DCAEK kit if I keep the dang thing. I know handguns are still selling like hotcakes but I can't excuse pushing crap out the door. THERE, I've gotten that off my chest.
I carry a Shield or 9c and compete in USPSA, Steel Challenge and IDPA with a 5" Pro. For hip carry, the grips of the Pro and fullsize are too long for me to conceal without careful clothing selection. The 9c and Shield conceal well under only a tee shirt.
All of my M&Ps have Apex kits, but the Pro has the Comp AEK and lightest trigger. The 9c is the most versatile of the three and runs surprisingly similar to the Pro at speed. Bill Drills ~2.3 seconds and FAST ~ 5.0 flat with both, but draws, reloads and low probability shots are definitely more consistent with the 5" Pro. A buddy and I ran my 9c back-to-back with our Pros through a 33-round USPSA stage at our practice range. Our raw times were no different with the 9c, and we both dropped only a few more points with the 9c. He liked the faster slide speed of the 9c more than his Pro, and I was pleasantly surprised by the similarity in scores.
A lot of the P.D.'s in the Detroit area that went to the M&P switched back to Glock. I don't know what to tell you. I have carried Glock's for 15yrs. That weapon has never done me wrong. I think most of the trouble I have seen with Glock's is user error. Why would you put an after market trigger in a gun ur going to carry for a CCW weapon? I don't understand it? I think it is a poor choice to change out triggers. I have one more thing to say "Glock Perfection".......
User error huh? You might want to re-think that statement. As a long time Glock armorer, Glock owner and someone that sees a lot of Glock's in training classes, what you said is simply not true.
C4
A lot of the P.D.'s in the Detroit area that went to the M&P switched back to Glock. I don't know what to tell you. I have carried Glock's for 15yrs. That weapon has never done me wrong. I think most of the trouble I have seen with Glock's is user error. Why would you put an after market trigger in a gun ur going to carry for a CCW weapon? I don't understand it? I think it is a poor choice to change out triggers. I have one more thing to say "Glock Perfection".......
I am a Glock guy and certified armorer and have the following pistols:
Gen1 G17 on Gen3 Frame : ejection ok
Gen2 G17 on Gen3 Frame : erratic ejection required Gen4 ejector
Gen3 G17 2012 production : erratic ejection required Gen4 ejector, Apex FRE, and associated SLB
Gen4 G17 2012 production : erratic ejection required Gen4 ejector, Apex FRE, and associated SLB
Gen3 G19 2009 production : ejection ok
Gen4 G19 2013 production : ejection ok
Gen3 G26 2011 production: ejection ok
Gen4 G34 2012 production : ejection ok
So almost 3/8 needed some help. None of this was shooter induced I assure you.
I agree with Grant here and advise new buyers still to buy the G19 as their first pistol (especially when it's likely to be their only pistol) but make sure they have my number if there pistol needs a little love to get running smoothly. That said, with my latest G19 that has been good to go, I hope it's an indicator that the worst of the issues are behind them.
A family member of mine just bought a 4.25" M&P Pro model, 9mm. It was ~$100 more than the standard, but came with nite-sites, the more aggressive back-straps, and a 4.5lb trigger. Really nice little gun, and worth the extra $100 IMO.
I have the whole suite of M&P guns from the Shield to the 5" PRO in 9mm. the Compact is a very interesting gun in that it can use the full size 17 rd mags (with an x-grip adapter) and also the +2 baseplates on the 12rd giving 14 rds in the mag. with the +2, the length is about the same as the 12 round with finger extension.
it rides in the center console of my car loaded with the 17rd mag and the 14rd in a cheap nylon "gunshow" holster with a Streamlight Protac 630 lumen flashlight clipped to it. a nice compact package with a lot of firepower...
FloridaWoodsman
12-05-13, 20:42
It was the compact version for me. I just don't have the physical bulk to gracefully conceal something bigger.
9c. Then pick up some full size mags and XGrips.
FloridaWoodsman
12-05-13, 21:03
9c. Then pick up some full size mags and XGrips.
The XGrips are great - A very natural feel in hand. When my 9c is lying around the house, it has the large magazine with XGrip.
I EDC the M&P45 compact. It is G19 sized, and .45. win win for me.
I also have an M&P 9 Shield for times when I need something smaller. it is a dream to carry and shoot.
I own a full sized M&P, to me it would be too bulky to carry consistently. I highly recommend the Shield for a comfortable option that you won't feel like is a chore to carry.
After much debate and several sessions of outshooting my G19 Gen4 with M&P's, I have decided to make the switch. I have tired and tried to like the highly recommended midsize Glock models (mainly the 19 and 23) but could never seem to shoot them as well with them as the full size or even the subcompacts for that matter. I will be keeping my G17 but the 19 will be finding a new home.
The fact is I shoot the M&P's better with quicker follow up shots and have better overall shot placement. I have shot stock M&P's with the factory trigger and the lack of audible/tangible reset does not bother me and goes unnoticed in rapid fire drills. The APEX kits make them that much more exciting.
My decision on M&P's is set. However the model I will be replacing my G19 with is still undecided. The FS model is the same size as my G17. The compact is marginally bigger than the baby Glock and with the provided pinky extension roughly the same size as a midsize. Man wouldn't life be great if S&W made a G19 sized M&P!
For you guys that carry M&P on a daily basis CCW, which model do you carry, the FS or the compact?
FS. Unless I'm forced to, I'll CCW a FS fire arm when possible.
Tennvol12345
12-08-13, 20:54
Same here. 9mm full size and 3 spare 20 Rd mags all day every day
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
The plus for the m&p c is it functions ever bit as well as the fs pistols but in a smaller pacage and can be carried in a more concealed way. If the shorter sight radius of 3/4" differences makes or breaks that pistol so be it but it should onlybe you that desides that , not group decision.
My wife has a m&p9c as part of her rotation of pistols and is always backed up with a fs mags and x-grip extension along with a apex comp kit. I like it the pistol and shoot it very well and will have a 45 version down the road to replace a 1911 BUT I carry a lighter thinner single stack 40
Now go out there and make up your own mind up as your the only one that it really matters to.
I carry a M&P 45 mid or a G19 pretty much 50/50. There isn't much difference between the 2 as far as size is concerned. The grip on the M&P is a bit bigger but that is it. On thing I can definitely say is that my M&P is more accurate than the G19! However, I still am fine with carrying either one.
I have a few M&P's but rarely carry any of them. I EDC a Ruger LC9, only because I didn't know the Shield was coming when I bought it. That said I've pocket carried a Shield for a day and still prefer the LC9, though the Shield is superior in every other way.
I've tried to carry larger guns but my body shape and normal clothing doesn't work with them.
walkin' trails
12-10-13, 07:32
Our drills by no means were textbook nor did we have a shot timer. However we did have a stopwatch. Our "drills" were:
Two targets 5 quick rounds to empy, reload, 5 rounds.
Two targets with 2 rounds to chest, one to head on each target
Two targets 2 rounds fast to chest, 1 slow aimed headshot, 3 rounds quick on second target
One target slow fire 5 round group.
All done at both 10 and 15 yards.
Myself and two other shooters all avaraged faster (some only marginally but faster) times with the M&P FS40 shooting 180gr WWB and Blazers versus that of my G19 Gen4 shooting 115 gr WWB and UMC. My slow fire shots were better hits/ more consistent groups with the M&P. Rapid fire M&P, for me, was also better than G19.
Nothing scientific, just shooting buddys playing around.
That was sort of my experience also. I had carried Glocks for years - 17, 19, 21, 22, 23, & 27. An officer from a die-hard S&W department let me fire his issued M&P 40 with large grip insert. He warned me that the trigger had no reset. I ran 50 rounds thru it and from "feel" noted my follow-on shots were quicker than with a Glock. I didn't even notice the trigger's lack of reset. A year later my employer authorized the M&P line and I bought a FS 45. This past summer I decided to go back to 9mm because arthritis was killing my shooting hand with the bigger calibers and G23s and 27s were the worst. My FS 9 is a good handling pistol and lacks the annoying trigger safety protruding from the trigger face thus no blisters after 300 rounds. I let a weak shooter I was coaching with an issue G22 try my 9 after quals, and the shooter liked the Smith much better. I won't go out and say that the M&P will make someone faster or more accurate, but if the pistol's ergonomics fit the shooter better, it will aid in speed and accuracy.
brickboy240
12-13-13, 11:46
There is a gun store near me that has a crazy low price on a new V-Tac 9mm M&P.
Very tempting...but I know of the accuracy woes other have had on this site.
Is it "safe" to buy a pistol like this? The price is very good and I really liked the way it felt in the hand.
-brickboy240
There is a gun store near me that has a crazy low price on a new V-Tac 9mm M&P.
Very tempting...but I know of the accuracy woes other have had on this site.
Is it "safe" to buy a pistol like this? The price is very good and I really liked the way it felt in the hand.
-brickboy240
You know there is an easy way to gauge its accuracy without ever firing a round right??
C4
brickboy240
12-13-13, 11:56
Last I read, they were changing something on the barrel lock up to help the full size 9mm M&Ps on accuracy....right? Would that apply to the newer V-Tac models?
Last I read, they were changing something on the barrel lock up to help the full size 9mm M&Ps on accuracy....right? Would that apply to the newer V-Tac models?
They have been trying to hold tighter tolerances between the barrel and the slide (on top of changing the twist rate). The easiest way to tell if they gun will be ok (accuracy wise) is to take a feeler gauge and put it in between the barrel and slide. IMHO, if the fit is above .005 walk away. If it is at or below .003, it is a keeper for sure.
C4
brickboy240
12-16-13, 10:43
That is good to know about checking the M&Ps. Do you slip the feeler gauge down between the back of the barrel and breach face or towards the front of the barrel where it locks up? I am guessing the front where it locks up...right?
Even if I bought the V-Tac and it was inaccurate...you can fit a KKM barrel to this pistol and cure the accuracy woes...right?
-brickboy240
That is good to know about checking the M&Ps. Do you slip the feeler gauge down between the back of the barrel and breach face or towards the front of the barrel where it locks up? I am guessing the front where it locks up...right?
Even if I bought the V-Tac and it was inaccurate...you can fit a KKM barrel to this pistol and cure the accuracy woes...right?
-brickboy240
Front.
KKM does not offer a fitted barrel (to my knowledge). The only barrels that can be fitted are by SL and we have the exclusive on them.
C4
Nightstalker865
12-16-13, 11:49
Grant, does this spec work for the entire M&P lineup? Is the same tolerance applicable to Glock's as well?
HardLuck682
12-16-13, 11:53
I carry either a Glock 19 or an M&P9c. Both are great guns. My M&P9c is outfitted with APEX DCAEK, AEK Trigger and RAM, as well as Trijicon HD sights. The RAM, or "audible reset" honestly doesn't offer much at all. My G19 it pretty well stock, sans Trijicon HD sights. I shoot them both equally well.
I carry the M&P in the summer, as it is easier to conceal under a t-shirt. My G19 is more for cool weather CCW. I looked at the FS M&P for carry, but it is extremely large, nearly as big as a G17.
With the M&P9c, you can also use FS magazines, with the addition of an X-Grip adapter... just something to consider if you want a larger capacity, but still wanted a good CCW piece.
Grant, does this spec work for the entire M&P lineup? Is the same tolerance applicable to Glock's as well?
Works for Glock, SIG, M&P, etc.
C4
Nightstalker865
12-16-13, 13:11
Works for Glock, SIG, M&P, etc.
C4
Thanks.
Salamander
12-20-13, 19:19
This is the precise reason why I haven't tried the M&P family in any serious way. Simply put, the FS M&P is just "too big" enough that I won't carry it concealed on a regular basis in warm weather, specifically due to the length of the grip. The Compact, on the other hand, is just "too small" enough for me to have a hard time with weapons manipulation, especially reloads, at speed.
As many, many, many others have noted, the M&P would be a no-brainer for me based on ergos alone, if S&W would just crank out a "mid-size" model that was dimensionally equivalent to the G19...
Regards,
Kevin
Same here. I have a FS 45 that gets occasional woods use, but for a 9mm EDC gun, S&W just hasn't hit the sweet spot with an M&P. One is a little too big, the other is a little too small. A shame, because I otherwise like the platform.
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