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View Full Version : P227 FNX45 HK45 G21SF Double Stack .45's



mdrums
12-12-13, 15:45
Thinking I want a double stack .45acp..... I have a Colt 1911 but want something to add something different.

Looked at and held the following:
Glock G21sf...felt um blah, not as good as my G17 which I tolerate...need to change out sights too...love the simplicity of Glocks for take down cleaning and parts though.
M&P 45.........felt great in the hand but trigger is mush and needs the Apex upgrade and needs new sights too
Sig P227...... feels like my P226 which I love and shoot well, seems well made, 10 rounds with 14 round mags due to come out, comes with Sig night sights
HK45T..........feels great 10 round mags only and can mount a silencer if I go that way. Comes with night sights
FNX45T........feels ok better than the G21SF 15 round mags plus can mount a red dot later and silencer if I go that route and comes with night sights

Why Do I Want:
well honestly just because!
bedside gun
fun range toy
my neighbor reloads .45acp and we both like to shoot .45acp

Money doesn't really matter so I don't care which gun is less money and bang for buck. Long Term DURABILITY, Zero Issues, Accuracy and just a cool gun is what I want.
I am leaning towards the P227 or HK45T for grip feel and also the M&P45 but the FNX45T with the high round capacity, extra mag, red dot mount really has me interested.

So...Merry Christmas everyone and post up your thoughts and advice biased or not! :cool:

tonyxcom
12-12-13, 15:57
I'd say get two. The polymer framed one you like best and the metal framed one you like best.

Brianb23
12-12-13, 16:01
Any of those guns can be milled for a red dot and I'm sure you can find aftermarket threaded barrels for any of them as well. Since money is no issue I'd go HK for the coolness factor. I am however biased since I own and love my p30

WickedWillis
12-12-13, 16:06
Glock G21sf...Simple, effective, accurate, inexpensive. 13+1 of 45 ACP and the Gen 4 really isn't that brick-like compared to the other 21's. Yes the sights suck, but those are easy to replace. Buy a lonewolf threaded barrel if you want to run a suppressor. Mags are relatively inexpensive. Everyone makes aftermarket accessories for them. Can accept 22-rd Kriss mags.

M&P 45.........Great shooting, combat accurate, very reliable. Trigger is complete garbage on the older models, they have supposedly fixed this. 10-round standard magazines, thats a decent capacity but obviously others carry more.

Sig P227...... feels like my P226 which I love and shoot well, seems well made, 10 rounds with 14 round mags due to come out, comes with Sig night sights- Seems like you are already in love with this one here. Great gun by all standards, Sig did a good job on it. More accurate than I ever hope to be.

HK45T..........My personal favorite on this list, I just wish they'd make extended magazine or baseplates for it for the non-Commy states. Very accurate.

FNX45T........To me the gun was a complete brick especially with the 15-rd mag inserted. I was least accurate with this gun when I rented it at the range. The ergo's are decent, but I could not justify the price over the G21, Sig P227 or the HK45.

I have been in the same boat as you for the last few months, trying to figure out what I want my full-size .45 nightstand gun to be. I recently fired every gun on your list here about 50rds a piece. You cannot go wrong really with any choices here. They are all reliable and handle the .45 very well. I personally am going to be purchasing a new HK USP 45 very soon. It's been my dream gun since I 1st got into firearms, and I shoot it extremely well. I think that's what your choice will boil down to, see what you are able to shoot best and most accurate. And by all means let us know what you decide!

RyanB
12-12-13, 17:17
The HK is going to have a lot fewer maintenance and durability issues than the Sig.

mdrums
12-12-13, 17:21
The HK is going to have a lot fewer maintenance and durability issues than the Sig.

Ok..though why is that?

RyanB
12-12-13, 17:40
I don't remember numbers but a long talk with a Sig armorer from a major agency leads me to never want a Sig, ever. They require more maintenance than most if they are shot frequently.

mdrums
12-12-13, 17:43
Ok thanks...I was wondering if you had personal experience with Sig's requiring more maintanance.
I don't remember numbers but a long talk with a Sig armorer from a major agency leads me to never want a Sig, ever. They require more maintenance than most if they are shot frequently.

WickedWillis
12-12-13, 17:57
I don't remember numbers but a long talk with a Sig armorer from a major agency leads me to never want a Sig, ever. They require more maintenance than most if they are shot frequently.

Sigs do like to run fairly wet, and most do not like cheap ammo. As far as more maintenance goes though it really should not give you any more issues than any firearm on this list.

Magic_Salad0892
12-12-13, 18:19
Between the Gen4 G21, HK45, and S&W M&P, it's hard to say.

I'd honestly get the M&P .45 Midsize with ambi-safety, 10-8 sights, and APEX goodies though.

DreadPirateMoyer
12-12-13, 18:36
The HK45CT, FNX45T, or S&W M&P (with new sights and Apex equipment) would be my choice. I've owned the former two and they were both amazing (still have the HK45CT).

If you're worried about reliability and less maintenance, the HK45 is the way to go, I think. HK quotes somewhere around 20,000 rounds for these pistols before any maintenance is due (though most do it earlier than that).

http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027

RyanB
12-12-13, 18:43
Sigs do like to run fairly wet, and most do not like cheap ammo. As far as more maintenance goes though it really should not give you any more issues than any firearm on this list.

Depot level rebuild recommended at 10,000 rounds complete with sacrificial pins was what I was told. I'll pass.

RyanB
12-12-13, 18:48
Depot level rebuild recommended at 10,000 rounds complete with sacrificial pins was what I was told. I'll pass.


Found this link: http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/150601935/m/6801056451

I've also heard a lot of the frames break starting at 15,000.

Scrubber3
12-12-13, 18:58
My advice: stay away from the FNX. I have personal experience with several. 3 that I know of have had the safety break on the right side causing it to just swing around. The finish is garbage and not even remotely non corrosive. I've seen surface rust on brand new ones and some less than a few months old. (That were properly maintained) I will say that they are accurate though. Just not as controllable as other .45 offerings

I'm not a fan of the M&P line up as they feel cheap and magazines have been difficult to get. My experience shooting them was okay and the ergonomics felt nice. I recently got rid of my shield 9mm and I don't regret it even though it was a reliable pistol. It just didn't seem like it was going to last very long. My remarks on this pistol are purely subjective and some folks like them. But all in all I think most will agree that the M&P is more of a budget gun than anything else.

The Glock 21 SF is a great choice. In fact, I have one and love it. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/13/yduheser.jpg Parts are plentiful, it's a tank and I know will give me years of service.

The Sig 227 is just like a 226 as you said. In due time the support for this model will be out there in full force and I will have one right beside my 226. This is a gun that you will pass down to your children.

The H&K...... It's an H&K... I've been around a few and I'm sure others will tell you as well: if money isn't an issue,, why are you even considering anything else? I mean, other than the Sig? Out of all of my pistols, I love to shoot my P2000 in .40 the most. I've shot the MK 23 quite a bit and love it as well. The H&K45 is very similar in feel and shootability. If it wasn't for the price of H&K, everyone would have one I think. Right?



In order from 1st to last:
1)H&K
2)Sig
3)GLOCK
4)S&W
5)something besides the FNX.... Maybe an XDM45?

FAB45
12-12-13, 19:00
I went through this thought process a few months ago and ended up with an M&P .45. I LOVE IT. I do still want to get the Apex trigger put on it but I am in no rush as I have a fairly new M&P and it feels ok. The Glock 21 would be a good choice as well. The FN would be a great choice as well. I would stay away from Sig, it CAN be pretty reliable BUT my experience (just range experience with the Sig mind you) shows me that they require a lot of lubrication and certain ammo gives them trouble.

Case in point MY preference would be

1. M&P .45
2. Glock 21 Gen 4
3. FNX .45T

The Dumb Gun Collector
12-12-13, 19:00
I would say it is a toss-up between the Hk45 and the M&P. The The HK45 is likely better built, but the M&P has some features that are better (one thing I am particularly fond of is the ability to integrate a laser grip, which has become close to a deal-breaker for me)--not to mention that MP 14 mags are readily available. I have both, and I really can't choose.

The FN, in my experience, is fairly ammo-sensitive. It is also massive. The G21, not really my thing. Way too big.

FAB45
12-12-13, 19:04
http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh579/GEARS45/4549e98c-74ad-47da-aaba-75a9a9f53710_zps7dfe4873.jpg (http://s1252.photobucket.com/user/GEARS45/media/4549e98c-74ad-47da-aaba-75a9a9f53710_zps7dfe4873.jpg.html)

FAB45
12-12-13, 19:05
I would say it is a toss-up between the Hk45 and the M&P. The The HK45 is likely better built, but the M&P has some features that are better (one thing I am particularly fond of is the ability to integrate a laser grip, which has become close to a deal-breaker for me)--not to mention that MP 14 mags are readily available. I have both, and I really can't choose.

The FN, in my experience, is fairly ammo-sensitive. It is also massive. The G21, not really my thing. Way too big.

Great point on the laser grip, forgot to mention that. It makes a world of difference IMO

The Glock can feel like a cinder block at times but if your paws are big it doesn't really matter. I love all sized Glocks

Tequila45
12-12-13, 19:22
I own a sig 220 combat and an fnp45. I've held the 227 and the grip feels almost identical to the single stack. Love them both, but the sig is just that much smoother. Although, if the shtf I'd choose the FN45 for the capacity, and the fact that its digested everything I've shot through it. 14rd'ers are available for the sig but they stick out to far. Buy what you shoot well and feels good in the hand.

Dos Cylindros
12-12-13, 19:25
I have owned both the HK45 and the M&P 45 full size. Both are awesome guns and while I sold the M&P 45, I really wish I had not. I still have my HK45 and likely will never part with it. The build quality on the HK45 is outstanding, the parts replacement life span is outstanding and reliability is outstanding. All things considered, I think the HK45 is the best gun but the M&P certainly is no slouch especially if you prefer a striker fired gun. I have no experience with the other guns on the list other than a short shooting stint with a friends G21. I was not a fan of the G21 mainly due to the boxy feel.

BaronFitz
12-12-13, 21:17
I've owned or currently own several of those, so here's my two cents. For reference, I have average sized hands, but my fingers are pretty long.

G21: Mine is the Gen3 fatty model (non-SF). Due to the aforementioned long fingers, I have no problem reaching the controls, and I consistently do well when I use it in matches since the grip is so fat it's harder for me to pull shots from side to side. I put some Redback One/10-8 Glock sights on mine. I know they're designed for the 17, but they fit the dovetails, and I have no illusions about .45 shooting flat at the same distance as a 9mm. They work really well for me. Trigger is acceptable if you're used to Glocks. Might get it worked on one day. 13+1 is quite respectable, if a little heavy when worn for long periods. Ares belts and RCS holsters help.

M&P45: Pretty happy with mine, which is one of the full sized models with a thumb safety (got it from a guy on the EE in fact). I don't shoot it quite as well as the G21, mostly because I haven't practiced with it much. The 10+1 capacity is a slight minus, but you can get 14 rounders for it if you don't care about how long the grip gets. The midsize is well regarded as a CCW piece, and they did a good job keeping the grip reasonably slim compared to a G30. Bonus: it fits the same Safariland 6004 holster as my 5" M&P Pro 9 with X300, which in turn is really designed to take the HK45 4.53" barrel with a light.

FNX-45T: I owned one of these when they were called the FNP-45T. I desperately wanted to like it...factory threaded barrel, suppressor height sights, multiple mounting options for red dots, 15+1 of .45, etc. The safety placement killed it for me, as the rear of the safety bit into the web of my strong hand while shooting. I had to wear gloves to shoot it and decided it was too much hassle. It was also somewhat ammo sensitive, and didn't always cycle Winchester White Box. Not a plus.

SiGfever
12-12-13, 21:38
Have you considered an H&K USP 45 Tactical?

http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/uspt_general.asp

Or

http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/uspct_general.asp

Mauser KAR98K
12-12-13, 22:23
If money is no option, grab the HK45T. If you are worried about round counts, see if an HK USP45 (tactical) will fit your hand.

Be warned, the HK mags are expensive! The night sights are glow in the dark, not tritium.

My first double stack .45 was an M&P45. After the apex FSS and trijicon night sights, it was a fantastic pistol (still is, though my dear mom has it now). Feels very close to the 1911, but simple to take down, easy to clean, and very reliable. And it will eat anything as far as ammo goes.

HK, on the other hand I will trust with accuracy (though the M&P45 has the best accuracy out of all the M&P lines, IMO), and the longevity. Those pistols are expensive for a reason. Federal has an HK USP45 with over 300,000 rounds through it (unsure what original parts are still in it, but rumor has it, it has the original barrel, still). HKs are also better to do you on trigger changes.

To be honest, you really have two choices when it comes to ergos and reliability in a single package: HK or M&P. Both are outstanding guns. With that said, if I could redo my first .45 choice, I'd go with the HK, and the money I'd have saved for the APEX kit could have gone to...well, not mags, to the half of the price that IS HK.

Happy choosing and researching.

Pappabear
12-12-13, 22:54
HK45 is my choice. I love my FNP T, very much though. I have MNP's but none in 45.
All fine weapons.

Mauser, I'm pretty sure The HK Tactical does come with real night sights.

PB

azeriosu85
12-13-13, 00:40
My vote after owning all but the FNX, is the M&P hands down. The new triggers are really great, and it is the softest recoiling in my opinion, yes even more than the HK45/HK45c. I sold mine because i thought i would really like the Gen 4 G21. So I bought one with a Gen 4 G30 companion too....well, they were nice guns, but the M&P is hands down better in almost every way literally. Then comes the Glock/M&P debate. Ford/Chevy really. I prefer M&P

DreadPirateMoyer
12-13-13, 00:55
HK45 is my choice. I love my FNP T, very much though. I have MNP's but none in 45.
All fine weapons.

Mauser, I'm pretty sure The HK Tactical does come with real night sights.

PB

It does, as does the HK45CT (which is what I would suggest to you, OP, over the fullsize HK45).

mdrums
12-13-13, 04:59
It does, as does the HK45CT (which is what I would suggest to you, OP, over the fullsize HK45).

From my understanding is the hk45t comes with tritium sights. I prefer the hk45 grip over the hk45compact grip which to me is more like the usp45 grip.

walkin' trails
12-13-13, 07:41
Of the pistols mentioned, I only have experience with the Glocks and M&Ps. I've had two 21s, a Gen 3 and an early production SF. Both were very reliable and accurate, but I work in street clothes and concealment was the issue, yet still prefer a full sized pistol as primary.

I got the M&P 45FS in 2009. I have shot this one pistol more than any of the other 45s I've owned. It's number three in round count behind a S&W model 18 and a G 17. I have worn out mag and a recoil spring, and broke the striker at an estimated 15-20K trigger presses. The pistol shoots as accurately as I do, and has a stock trigger. I wonder if LE guns came with crisper triggers than the civilian offerings? In my experience, M&P triggers clean up after a couple hundred rounds. The M&P is big, but no larger than a 1911 and as easy to conceal with the right gear. Mags don't hold as many rounds as a Glock, but are also easier to carry.

The crowd I work for supposedly tested the M&P line buy running some 10K rounds thru representative samples under abusive conditions before authorizing them as an option for us.

Bottom line, though, go choose the 45 that feels most comforting to you.

ralph
12-13-13, 09:05
OP.
Suggest you go over to www.pistol-training.com and read the HK45 test that Todd Green did a couple years ago...Look on the right sidebar, under "topics". 50,000rnds 1stoppage, 1 broken part, NO malfunctions...You'll be hard pressed to find another .45 caliber pistol that can match that kind of performance. I'd also consider getting a light LEM trigger as well. In my case, I went with a HK45ct, I switched the MEPS out for a set of Trijicon HD's and had a light LEM kit installed.. I'm happy with it.

Gary1911A1
12-13-13, 09:51
Since the OP stated money wasn't a concern and he wanted long term durability I'd recommend the HK45 from the list he presented. Some of the others are good pistols, but the HK would seem to best meet his objectives.

RHINOWSO
12-13-13, 10:42
Pick your poison.

HK45
HK45T
HK45C
HK45CT

I prefer the HK45C due to its smaller size and have a threaded barrel as well to shoot suppressed.

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/HK45C/IMG_0187.jpg

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/HK45C/13C7E163-5565-4D20-8FA6-3BA51A2888DE-2110-00000338CB540E3D_zpsafdaa81c.jpg

mdrums
12-14-13, 22:20
Thanks everyone for the replies!

I thought I'd get a lot saying great things about the HK but what surprised me was the M&P love and not much Glock love.

Anyway I went back to one of my LGS and the HK45 and M&P feel great as does the Sig P227... Still haven't figured out...which to get 1st...yep not which to get but which 1 first. LOL

JPB
12-15-13, 00:56
I will admit I am a huge HK fan and they make beautiful guns, but their triggers suck. Buy the Glock first for pure shootability, reliability/durability, and simplicity (at a modest price none the less). Then buy and play with the others. If you can ever out shoot the Glock (which is really what matters here, right?) with one of the others, then transition to it then. I would predict that the only one that would come close is the M&P, but the HK triggers will never get you there. FWIW, my USP 45 was my primary for a lot of years.

gtmtnbiker98
12-15-13, 09:22
Disregard.