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Dump1567
12-21-13, 19:01
I'm in the market for a small sub-compact. Something in 9mm. I already have a Glock 27, but that's bigger than what I want. This will serve as an occasional carry gun (when I need something smaller) and/or back-up. I've had Kahrs in the past and am leaning towards the CM or CW 9. I like the simplicity of these (no manuel safety and Glock stlye action).

But I'm open to other suggestions?

captdreifus
12-21-13, 19:13
I'm in the market for a small sub-compact. Something in 9mm. I already have a Glock 27, but that's bigger than what I want. This will serve as an occasional carry gun (when I need something smaller) and/or back-up. I've had Kahrs in the past and am leaning towards the CM or CW 9. I like the simplicity of these (no manuel safety and Glock stlye action).

But I'm open to other suggestions?my edict was a G26 or a G19. I now have a sig P290rs that I pocket carry. I did the 642 thing for a few years, but the sig blows it out of the water in terms of shootability and faster reloads.

I find the sig p290rs just as concealable on the pocket as my 642.

Best
Capt

Dump1567
12-21-13, 19:22
my edict was a G26 or a G19. I now have a sig P290rs that I pocket carry. I did the 642 thing for a few years, but the sig blows it out of the water in terms of shootability and faster reloads.

I find the sig p290rs just as concealable on the pocket as my 642.

Best
Capt

Thanks. I forgot those existed. I'll check those out at SHOT.
And just to add, I already have a couple of small .380's and LW J frames. But I wanted more capacity than a 5 shot and a better choice than a .380.

Sensei
12-21-13, 19:29
M&P Shield.

Redstate
12-21-13, 19:30
Immediately upon seeing the title to this thread, I said G26. However, after reading the thread, I would go with the Kahr. However, until last summer, I always carried a Kahr P9 Covert in a pocket holster for summer work attire. I then started carrying the G26 in a pocket holster for summer work attire, and ended up carrying the G26 all summer with no problem.

captdreifus
12-21-13, 19:35
It's 9mm.

d90king
12-21-13, 19:37
I prefer the Shield for a BUG or deep concealment / summer carry pistol. It is an excellent little pistol, while not a pocket pistol, it conceals nicely with the 7 round magazine. It is also very easy to shoot well and accurate at 25 yds. At the price its worth a look. Mine has proven to be both reliable and accurate, especially for a pistol of its size.

Killjoy
12-21-13, 19:38
I love my M&P Shield in 9mm with an apex trigger. Its very accurate, especially for a gun with such a small sight radius, and runs like a champ. Its practically replaced my S&W 638 bodyguard as my off-duty carry gun.

Dump1567
12-21-13, 20:10
I've thought about the Shield also. Just haven't seen one in person. My concern is the manual safety. Not sure if this is a good comparison, but I recently took a Beretta 950 Jet Fire out to shoot. During recoil, my meaty hands kept engaging the safety. I've had the same issue with engaging the slide stop on the M&P.

Kokopelli
12-21-13, 20:12
I agree.. Shield..



M&P Shield.

aguila327
12-21-13, 20:56
One of my coworkers just picked up a Ruger LC9. I haven't handled a shield yet but was seriously thinking of going to pick up the Ruger.


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oldtexan
12-21-13, 21:28
I'm in the market for a small sub-compact. Something in 9mm. I already have a Glock 27, but that's bigger than what I want. This will serve as an occasional carry gun (when I need something smaller) and/or back-up. I've had Kahrs in the past and am leaning towards the CM or CW 9. I like the simplicity of these (no manuel safety and Glock stlye action).

But I'm open to other suggestions?

I have personal experience with 9mm versions of the Walther PPS and with several Kahrs: the PM9, the K9, and the TP9. I recommend that you at least consider the PPS.

I bought a PM9 in 2005 or thereabouts and have put about 2500 rds through it. It is a decent pocket gun IMO, fitting in about the same pockets as a S&W 642 or other airweight 2" barreled J-frame. Reliability and durability have been issues; the gun has needed its recoil spring assy changed about every 750 rds or it develops a tendency to fail to return to battery, and it developed a barrel peening problem at about 1750 rds that prompted Kahr to replace the entire top end at their expense. The PM9 is easier to shoot with speed and accuracy than any J I've owned (several 642s, a couple of 940s, and a 649). Recoil seems less than any of those j-frames. The Kahrs AFAIK all have a smooth trigger that seems somewhat like a 6-7 lb S&W DA revolver trigger, especially in the length of the stroke. The all-steel K9 was easier to shoot (since sold off) because of its heavier weight, longer grip, and longer sight radius. It worked noticeably less well as a pocket gun than the PM9 because of its weight and its longer grip. The same would probably be true of a P9 or CW9 as they have essentially the same grip length as the K9.

The PPS seems very Glock-like to me. It has a grip frame that has parallel sides, can be configured with the larger of its included backstraps to give a Glocklike grip angle, and IMO has a Glocklike trigger. As my primary carry guns are G19s, this is an attraction to me(one of our PPS serves as a weakside pocket-carried backup to my IWB-carried G19). With the flush-fitting 6 rd mag in place it seems to work as well out of pockets as the PM9, having a similar grip length, and width. With the longer 7 rd mag in place it fits in fewer pockets, but allows me to put all my fingers on the gun. We currently have three PPS and have put about 5000 rds through the guns collectively, IIRC. I have observed better general reliability with the PPSs than with our PM9 or with the K9 and TP9, both of which are gone. The PPS shoots like bigger gun, IMO. I did have an odd experience with a 2008-vintage PPS that developed a damaged ejector at about 2400 rds. It began giving failures to eject and was eventually replaced at no cost by S&W, which was then handling such matters for Walther. The ejector on the PPS is an integral part of the serial numbered steel chassis of the gun, so when the ejector proved unrepairable, so did the gun.

Pappabear
12-21-13, 21:31
DA shield

demkofour
12-21-13, 21:34
If you are looking to stay with KAHR, the P9 or PM9 with the DLC coating are hard to beat. But I agree the Shield is also an excellent option, as well as the Walther PPS.

REM_11
12-21-13, 21:39
I vote shield. Remove the safety. Proven reliable, very accurate and easy concealment.

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Dump1567
12-21-13, 22:19
Walther PPS

IIRC, I handled one of these at last years SHOT Show. It's one I've also considered.

ST911
12-21-13, 22:37
I'm in the market for a small sub-compact. Something in 9mm. I already have a Glock 27, but that's bigger than what I want. This will serve as an occasional carry gun (when I need something smaller) and/or back-up. I've had Kahrs in the past and am leaning towards the CM or CW 9. I like the simplicity of these (no manuel safety and Glock stlye action).

But I'm open to other suggestions?

I included a number of observations of various subcompacts in this thread on the Shield, including Kahr Mk9 and PM9:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?135400

t1tan
12-21-13, 23:12
Walther PPS

walkin' trails
12-22-13, 07:56
I have handled a Shield and a P290, abd have fired a Kahr and the Ruger LC9. The Shield seemed to be about the best combination of decent grip, trigger, and size; and the safety does not really protrude enough to get activated unintentionally. The P290 seemed more on par with the Kahr, and the trigger seemed OK for what you're getting. For what it is worth, also check out the Sig P938 if you like SA pistols. My next small 9mm will hopefully be a Springfield EMP, although it is not as compact as the ones you've mentioned.

I have fired the Kahrs and they shoot decent for what they are. I have also fired the LC9 and found it to be the most inaccurate 9mm with the worst trigger I have shot - and that was at close range. Reliability on the specimin I fired wasn't too good either. I found the LCP 380 to be more accurate.

I asked my local range guy the other day how the Kahrs they had as rentals held up. He said that they were pretty reliable once they passed the 200 round break-in. I believe that applies to all of these ultracompact pistols.

ST911
12-22-13, 08:57
Folks-When making a recommendation, it would be helpful to the OP if you would offer out some of the reasons for your recommendation rather than just posting a model. While he could certainly choose by popular vote, knowing why you made your suggestion, your experience with the model your suggest, along with your pertinent thoughts, and observations are useful in forming a decision.

JBecker 72
12-22-13, 09:02
After shooting one recently, I'm saving my pennies for a HK P2000SK. It's just the right size to me and has good capacity. The reliability reviews I've seen show it to be an outstanding pistol. Plus it can take the mags from my P30. I will be appendix carrying FWIW.

LibertyNeverDies
12-22-13, 09:07
I'll also second the PPS. It is a little on the large side but I can shoot it as fast(with similar groups on target) as my G19. Past 10yards I start to do a little better with the G19 and I attribute it to the trigger. If it doesn't feel good in your hand see if the sales person will switch out the back strap for you to try. The difference between the back straps is unbelievable(at least for me). I can't iterate enough how controllable the PPS is. I've messed around with my cousin's shield and I don't like the safety. If a pistol is going to have a safety I want it big so I know I'm not going to brush over it under stress. That said the shield was more ergonomic.

Shao
12-22-13, 09:47
my edict was a G26 or a G19. I now have a sig P290rs that I pocket carry. I did the 642 thing for a few years, but the sig blows it out of the water in terms of shootability and faster reloads.

I find the sig p290rs just as concealable on the pocket as my 642.

Best
Capt

+1 on the 290RS, my brother picked one up a couple of weeks ago and I had some range time with it - the trigger pull seemed infinitely better than what I remember the regular 290 having. Some of the reasons I prefer it over the Shield: smaller size, restrike capability, sig-light sights, ergos, never had a S&W auto that I didn't end up hating after a year or so... Honestly though I'd rather have a P938.

superstratjunky
12-22-13, 10:51
Even though I'm a lefty, I'm starting to re-think this one. Plus it's American made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1pu0CCkvak

Dump1567
12-22-13, 11:54
All great info. I just pulled my Gov. 380 out of the safe. That's probably the size I'm looking for. I'll also have to check out what the Glock G42 is (my preferred brand).

I'm going to SHOT this year, so I'll be able to handle plenty of guns.

Rampy
12-23-13, 14:03
We have both the Sig 290rs and the Shield 9mm, The 290rs is smaller than the shield & has a long but smoooth trigger pull. Personally with all the mini 9mm's I'd never own a 380 mouse gun....have seen to many falure to stops/ slow using the 380.

MegademiC
12-23-13, 20:19
If its not a full sized/g19 sized gun, I go shield. It will hide when the others print. Very good track record of reliability and round count, especially given that its a bug/subcompact. Accuracy both mechanical and due to ergos is really good, and it's priced right. Unless you have really huge hands, it should fit great. It's too big to be a pocket gun IMO, but I have yet to need to pocket carry. You can hide a shield in your skivvies if you know what you're doing.

I agree with above poster, I'd never, ever carry 380.