View Full Version : LMT or ARMS BUIS
Which BUIS is better for long term usage? Its actually going to be my Main Iron Sight for a while until I decide if I want optics. Any suggestions for the newbie would be appreciated :)
For irons only, I would get the LMT. If going with an Aimpoint down the road, still get the LMT, use a Larue mount so the irons are in the lower third window of the Aimpoint. The LMT is more robust in my opinion. If you plan to go with a scope, don't waste money on the LMT since it would have to be replaced. I would look at other sight options if you are going with a scope, such as the Troy.
Fixed sight wise, take a look at the Larue back up. It's simple, light weight and less chance of anyone monkeying with the knobs.
Mark
considering a LMT myself. their iron sight looks rather tall. would it be an issue with say a Trijicon Reflex sight in front of it?
I'm interested in this also. Should I get a EOTech riser from LaRue for my EOTech?
tiger seven
05-30-08, 17:08
I'm interested in this also. Should I get a EOTech riser from LaRue for my EOTech?
Without a riser of some sort, the central dot of the reticle will line up directly with the sights, meaning that it will sit atop the front sight post and in the center of the rear aperture.
With a riser, like the LaRue mount, the iron sights will be positioned in the lower 1/3 of the EOTech's "window" and the reticle will float above them. The two sighting systems will function independently.
Either way works, and it's really a matter of personal preference. With a fixed rear like the LMT, I prefer the lower 1/3 cowitness provided by the LaRue mount as the sight picture is less cluttered.
And a pic... :)
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/zulu15/carbine_eo-1-1.jpg
Derek
I have the LMT BUIS and the ARMS 40L. For me the LMT is on my ' basic irons only' M4gery, and the 40L I use on my middy with an EOTech or low powered variable scope depending on what I'm doing. Both will get the job done by themselves but with optics there may be some problems depending on which route you take.
I agree with mark5pt56 in that LMT would be my preference stand alone or with an Aimpoint with lower third co-witness. With an EOTech and no riser it gets in the way of the buttons if mounted close (unless you get the newer models with the buttons on the side) so I use the ARMS. The LMT won't work with a scope (well I guess it could with a really long eye relief scope and a monolithic upper, but why?) so I would get a low profile flip sight (Troy,MI,ARMS,etc.) if taking that road. It all depends on what you want to do with it and those plans may change so you may end up getting a few different ones until you find the right combination for you. You can always sell the ones that don't work for not to much of a loss. Or the cheaper way is to go to the range and see if anyone has set-ups similar to what you are looking at and ask to try them out. Most will oblige.
mat10x- It does look kind of tall but I think that is just because it is bigger than most BUIS's. It really isn't much taller than any other rear sight (when in the upright position) just more bulky I guess. With a Reflex I believe it would be an absolute co-witness so the sight picture would be a little busy for me personally.
With the EOTech and low powered magnified optics I have really come to prefer both front and rear flip-up BUIS's. The front sight post isn't too distracting but the sight picture is very nice without it.
1st choice for fixed LaRue BUIS
2nd choice: LMT
Only Choice(IMHO) for flip up: TROY
ARMS- Is Shit, and I say that as an owner, and a person who gets issued an ARMS #40.
The only thing ARMS does right, apparently, is marketing.
Which BUIS is better for long term usage? Its actually going to be my Main Iron Sight for a while until I decide if I want optics. Any suggestions for the newbie would be appreciated :)
Well if we are going to compare ruggedness, I would actually say neither. The A2 style rear has a lot of moving parts that can break and or just fall out. We have also seen ARMS BUIS break. So for pure hard use, the LT BUIS for fixed and the TROY or KAC for flip up.
C4
how are you guys liking your LMTs? considering one myself. any rust issues with the non parkerized front site? called LMT on that...they said "why would you bother parkerizing under the front site". to which i replied "rust" and "your competitors do". didn't get much of an answer.
Well if we are going to compare ruggedness, I would actually say neither. The A2 style rear has a lot of moving parts that can break and or just fall out. We have also seen ARMS BUIS break. So for pure hard use, the LT BUIS for fixed and the TROY or KAC for flip up.
C4
I agree there are definitely better options out there. Had I known of the Larue BUIS when I was looking I would have gotten that instead of the LMT. Plus it is cheaper. But until my LMT fails me that is what will be on my rifle. I doubt it ever will but if/when, a Larue will reside atop my carbine in all its glory. Same with my shit ARMS 40L. I probably should have ponied up the extra dough for a Troy but until that breaks that is what I'll use. With as little as I actually use my BUIS (only to confirm that it is zeroed every now and then) I don't foresee it being replaced. At least it better not break. Damn it Grant now you've got me doubting the sight you sold me ;) .
You wouldn't happen to have any pics of the broken sights handy or can point me in the right direction? I'm definitely not doubting your statement that they break just the where, why, and how. I can definitely see how it could break in the deployed position from being dropped or something. I just haven't seen a broken sight pic compared to the many pics of their other broken products (mostly throw levers).
I agree there are definitely better options out there. Had I known of the Larue BUIS when I was looking I would have gotten that instead of the LMT. Plus it is cheaper. But until my LMT fails me that is what will be on my rifle. I doubt it ever will but if/when, a Larue will reside atop my carbine in all its glory. Same with my shit ARMS 40L. I probably should have ponied up the extra dough for a Troy but until that breaks that is what I'll use. With as little as I actually use my BUIS (only to confirm that it is zeroed every now and then) I don't foresee it being replaced. At least it better not break. Damn it Grant now you've got me doubting the sight you sold me ;) .
You wouldn't happen to have any pics of the broken sights handy or can point me in the right direction? I'm definitely not doubting your statement that they break just the where, why, and how. I can definitely see how it could break in the deployed position from being dropped or something. I just haven't seen a broken sight pic compared to the many pics of their other broken products (mostly throw levers).
The "theme" of this thread was which of the two BUIS's is the most rugged. I expanded on it to point out that any sight (like an A2) will never be as robust as an A1 simply for the fact that there are too many moving parts in them.
Do I think that an A2 will just fall apart while shooting it? No. So I wouldn't worry about it.
C4
If I'm using an absolute co-witness sight picture, I prefer the Troy flip up sights to keep the sight picture uncluttered. If I can use a lower 1/3 arrangement, then the LMT fixed BUIS works great. The Navy Mk18 arrangement with the LMT BUIS and Aimpoint sight is a well thought out configuration.
Well, this thread has me doubting that I want fixed irons. I went with the fixed irons because I didn't want my optic to go down and me be fumbleing with the irons. I may just put a low pro gas block on it and free float handguard with a set of troys. It seems everyone likes the troys. Looks like I may have a LMT rear for sale soon.
theJanitor
05-31-08, 16:26
i use both the LMT and the Larue with aimpoints in Larue mounts. the more invisible rear sight is the larue. somehow the profile disappears against the body of the aimpoint, the LMT a bit less. both ar rugged options though. i like the KISS design of the larue
a pic as well
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h30/grandprixboy/a-IMG_7629.jpg
Well, this thread has me doubting that I want fixed irons. I went with the fixed irons because I didn't want my optic to go down and me be fumbleing with the irons. I may just put a low pro gas block on it and free float handguard with a set of troys. It seems everyone likes the troys. Looks like I may have a LMT rear for sale soon.
What kind of optic do you plan to run? The LMT BUIS works great with an Aimpoint in a lower 1/3 configuration. If I was mounting an EOTech direct to the upper rail, well then I'd use a Troy flip rear to keep the sights uncluttered.
While I think the aimpoint is a fine optic, and I have owned one in the past, I am not a fan. I found that I prefer the EOTech. I have a EOTech model 512 that I will be putting on my rifle.
I currently have an LMT sight, and can say after being bounced around for the past 3 or so years that it has held up beautifully on a duty weapon. No issues.
You will have one thing to consider if you are using the LMT and are sold on the 512. If you use the LMT and the 512/552 and are mounting the EOTech directly to the upper rails, you will need to have the round CAR handguards, NOT the double heat shield oval M4 ones. If you do have M4 or rifle handguards you will either need a LaRue mount to raise the sight or you will need to remove material from the handguard to let the front of the battery box come down. I removed material on my midlegnth handguard and have not seen any further issues.
If your weapon will be for duty use, you may want to reconsider your choice of optic. I can say this from personal experiences and point you towards other points of view and information as to why you should reconsider the Aimpoint. PM if you'd like the details.
If you're just using it as an occasional plinker, then by all means, shoot the EoTech. If you want one I'll sell my 552 so I can get another Aimpoint.
Agreed, the 512/552 takes up a lot of rail space. The Troy flip is probably the best option in this case.
Another option with the handguard is to use a rail like the Troy that is the same height as the upper. So long as the EOTech is firmly mounted to the upper, I wouldn't worry about the battery compartment bridging the rail.
For now I'm pretty sold on the EOTech. I may change my mind later, but not yet. I've had a aimpoint in the past, but found that I'm better with the EOTech.
As for the rail issue, I plan on putting a free float rail on the rifle. I'm not sure which, (DD lite, LaRue, Troy) but I'm not concerned about the front of the EOTech.
Now for irons, I'm starting to lean towards Troys front and rear, which would mean going with a low profile gas block and a longer rail.
If you would like to send me some convincing information on the aimpoint via IM feel free. I'm always open to good information from actual users.
keep the good info flowing, I'm really liking this board, not as much.....chatter as other places.
i use both the LMT and the Larue with aimpoints in Larue mounts. the more invisible rear sight is the larue. somehow the profile disappears against the body of the aimpoint, the LMT a bit less. both ar rugged options though. i like the KISS design of the larue
a pic as well
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h30/grandprixboy/a-IMG_7629.jpg
Sorry to sidetrack BUT what bag is that?
I regret buying the LMT sight (carry handle type) because the sight is not squared with the handle. It's only slightly off, but it bugs me.
Poor tolerances or assembly, I don't know.
It may not effect the performance, but I expected precision machining.
Parabellum9x19mm
06-01-08, 01:31
i've seen many issue Colt and FN A2s and A4s with rear sights that weren't perfectly square to the handle. its normal. there's a bit of play in the assembly. if you dont like it go for a LaRue or Troy. they are both tanks and exhibit "precision machining" as you say :)
Well, this thread has me doubting that I want fixed irons. I went with the fixed irons because I didn't want my optic to go down and me be fumbleing with the irons. I may just put a low pro gas block on it and free float handguard with a set of troys. It seems everyone likes the troys. Looks like I may have a LMT rear for sale soon.
You do know that you can leave your flip up sights in the "UP" position and they MAGICALLY become fixed irons right??? ;)
I personally have never understood the need for PERM. FIXED BUIS's as you can just take flip up BUIS's and just leave them up! Flip up BUIS's also tend to me MUCH lighter than fixed. Seems like a no brainer to me.
C4
You do know that you can leave your flip up sights in the "UP" position and they MAGICALLY become fixed irons right??? ;)
I personally have never understood the need for PERM. FIXED BUIS's as you can just take flip up BUIS's and just leave them up! Flip up BUIS's also tend to me MUCH lighter than fixed. Seems like a no brainer to me.
C4
LOL, yeah I've thought of that. Plus the lower weight would help. I think I'm going with the Troy flips with a longer rail and low profile gas block. It's got my attention for sure. Plus, it just looks nicer, and will allow me to put magnified optics on if I so desire.
variablebinary
06-01-08, 14:26
I have both. Like both.
I run LMT rear on an MK18 build.
The ARMS currently reside on a middy carbine with EOtech
I have Troy rears under an ACOG. I think they are okay. I prefer ARMS though
I use the ARMS #40 with my EOTech, I had a LMT it was in the line of sight when not in use.
parker7777
09-10-08, 20:25
I like the lmt would also consider the larue fixed sight.
spamsammich
09-11-08, 03:34
I regret buying the LMT sight (carry handle type) because the sight is not squared with the handle. It's only slightly off, but it bugs me.
Poor tolerances or assembly, I don't know.
It may not effect the performance, but I expected precision machining.
Every carry handle/A2 type sight I've seen is like the LMT. There is nothing "poor tolerance" about it. You're wrong in this respect or maybe don't know what you're talking about. This is how they are designed take a look at a detachable carry handle some time.
If you really have buyer's remorse over it, I can help you get rid of the sight.
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