View Full Version : Dog killed another fox tonight
Littlelebowski
07-03-08, 21:08
This is the second. Both foxes had a stupid habit of stealing my dog's food and insulting him with urination/defection in his food bowl. The German Shepherd did the deed. Great dog. Both dogs have had all of their shots and the fox was not rabid, it was running for its life.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/photo-6.jpg
HAMMERDROP
07-04-08, 01:16
Sure its not the wifes' Yorkie ? LOL
Michael
That's cool. My boxer picks on turtles... does this count?
CarlosDJackal
07-05-08, 18:39
Aw, poor little fox. :( Although it does seem like it deserved what it got!!
Aw, poor little fox. :( Although it does seem like it deserved what it got!!
That's what I thought too. Foxes are cool; they're like little dogs themselves. But hey, little beasties should know not to mess with man, nor man's bestfriend.
To the OP: good looking dogs, especially the german.
OldNavyGuy
07-06-08, 11:02
Aw, poor little fox. :( Although it does seem like it deserved what it got!!
that poor little creature was a BABY ;) had it been full grown, i do not believe your dog would have caught it, and if it did, you would be facing a pretty big Vet bill to make your dog whole again.
Tastes like chicken? :confused:
JediMindTricks
07-06-08, 18:51
that poor little creature was a BABY ;) had it been full grown, i do not believe your dog would have caught it, and if it did, you would be facing a pretty big Vet bill to make your dog whole again.
I don't know much about foxes but I doubt that even full grown a fox would give much of a fight to what appears to be a full grown German Sheperd. It probably would've got away but I don't think it would do much more than that. Unless you fight like a Badger, or Wolvrine size usually wins in the animal kingdom, and although the fox is smart, so is the sheperd. In fact I believe they (the shepehrd breed) are the smartest of canine breeds.
In fact I believe they (the sheperd breed) are the smartest of canine breeds.
'cept for Jack Russell's, of course.
'cept for Jack Russell's, of course.
You're shitting me right?
Is that a Newf next to your GS?
variablebinary
07-07-08, 07:24
You're shitting me right?
No really, Jack Russell's are among the smartest breeds in the world...
OldNavyGuy
07-07-08, 11:00
I don't know much about foxes but I doubt that even full grown a fox would give much of a fight to what appears to be a full grown German Sheperd. It probably would've got away but I don't think it would do much more than that. Unless you fight like a Badger, or Wolvrine size usually wins in the animal kingdom, and although the fox is smart, so is the sheperd. In fact I believe they (the sheperd breed) are the smartest of canine breeds.
many years ago i hunted Foxes with hounds, Walkers, American Foxhounds, English Fox Hounds and Black & Tans plus some cross breed mutts, once in a while a fox would be cornered and put up a fight to be admired, thus the dog needed Vet care, if we couldn't sew up the wounds ourselves, so do not even rest on the idea a Fox can not do harm to a much larger animal
i also admire you spelling capabilities :D
No really, Jack Russell's are among the smartest breeds in the world...
The 5 that my sisters have must have missed the memo. By far the DUMBEST dogs on earth. My boxer isn't smart either but hey... he's a boxer. My mom had an old poodle that was a genius though.
I'd be cautious about having a dog that gets into the habit of killing other animals.
I'd be cautious about having a dog that gets into the habit of killing other animals.
Why? They are animals. Their natural instinct is to hunt, kill, and protect.......
Why? They are animals. Their natural instinct is to hunt, kill, and protect.......
They are domesticated animals. Wild animals hunt and kill.
Granted, a cat might kill a bird or mouse. But when you're talking about an animal that can kill a child (like a Rotty or German Shepard), I'd be cautious.
Killing is "Red Zone" behavior.
They are domesticated animals. Wild animals hunt and kill.
Granted, a cat might kill a bird or mouse. But when you're talking about an animal that can kill a child (like a Rotty or German Shepard), I'd be cautious.
Killing is "Red Zone" behavior.
You must have more experience in this area than me. I am under the understanding that an animals instincts are predominant regardless of the level of domestication specifically against threats. Franky, a German Sheppard that would show timidness and an unwillingness to kill an intruder (fox) would be uncharacteristic of the breed I believe.
HAMMERDROP
07-08-08, 11:56
I believe would be the true reason your Shep was insulted i.e crapping in the food and water bowls etc. And your Sheps desire to keep the intruder from getting the best sleeping area and food and your attention is/was enough for most aggressive breed canines to mount a lethal attack.
But since we are their masters and we dole the rations out I would not worry about any kids unless they continually provoke ANY dog or run... something about that running thing that makes all dogs chase catch and kill. I would have been shocked had your dog(s) not re-acted in the 'Red Zone' ... it is still their nature. After the kill his/her behavior probably returned to just 'Orange' ready to protect the home and all its pack members.
BTW Dobermans' are the smartest dog. Mine gets me beer from the ice box ! And knows the diference between a .40 and .45 round he gets me those too and knows the combo to the safe and I never told him what it was ! LOL
Michael
You must have more experience in this area than me. I am under the understanding that an animals instincts are predominant regardless of the level of domestication specifically against threats. Franky, a German Sheppard that would show timidness and an unwillingness to kill an intruder (fox) would be uncharacteristic of the breed I believe.
I'm not saying that it's a concern for sure. I'd just be cautious.
Take L.E. k-9s for example. They are exibiting red zone behaviors... They're biting the shit out of bad guys. But it's at the command of the master/pack leader. And when the pack leader calls the dog off of a suspect, it obeys the demand/command.
It's probably no big deal, but I'd be concerned if either of my Rotts killed another animal.... depending on the circumstances.
I believe would be the true reason your Shep was insulted i.e crapping in the food and water bowls etc. And your Sheps desire to keep the intruder from getting the best sleeping area and food and your attention is/was enough for most aggressive breed canines to mount a lethal attack.
But since we are their masters and we dole the rations out I would not worry about any kids unless they continually provoke ANY dog or run... something about that running thing that makes all dogs chase catch and kill. I would have been shocked had your dog(s) not re-acted in the 'Red Zone' ... it is still their nature. After the kill his/her behavior probably returned to just 'Orange' ready to protect the home and all its pack members.
BTW Dobermans' are the smartest dog. Mine gets me beer from the ice box ! And knows the diference between a .40 and .45 round he gets me those too and knows the combo to the safe and I never told him what it was ! LOL
Michael
I think your right. The dog took it personally that the Fox was stealing its food and then leaving its "mark." There is a switch that gets "flipped" in dogs when certain things happen to them. I have only seen it a couple times, but generally always involves another animal taking advantage of them in some way.
C4
remindes me of my little one she goes after my stupid rooster(hate that thing), gald your two are ok.
They are domesticated animals. Wild animals hunt and kill.
Granted, a cat might kill a bird or mouse. But when you're talking about an animal that can kill a child (like a Rotty or German Shepard), I'd be cautious.
Killing is "Red Zone" behavior.
Animal aggression and human aggression are two completely different things. my ex girlfriend is a behaviorist and trainer. She trains working dogs and competes in french ring and schutzhund. This is completely different than a pet dog, most dog owners have no idea why their pets do anything and seem to think of them as furry four legged children. they are animals first, as for being dogs, Dogs have a much higher fight rather than flight compared to wild animals. People seem to think that wolves and wolverines etc are some badass fighters but in reality they don't fight at all theyh break contact to avoid wounds. Alot of dogs will fight without regard to being hurt in protection of their owners or their owners property or what they percieve as a reason to kill another animal. It is not unnatural or wrong for a dog to want to kill another animal it healthy normal behavior especially for some breeds i would be more worried if they didn't have that drive. Wanting to attack and harm people is a non tolerable for me, unless someone is physically attacking me or my family. my dog however has very high animal aggression which suits me just fine since we are absolutely swarmed by coyotes out here.
Animal aggression and human aggression are two completely different things. my ex girlfriend is a behaviorist and trainer. She trains working dogs and competes in french ring and schutzhund. This is completely different than a pet dog, most dog owners have no idea why their pets do anything and seem to think of them as furry four legged children. they are animals first, as for being dogs, Dogs have a much higher fight rather than flight compared to wild animals. People seem to think that wolves and wolverines etc are some badass fighters but in reality they don't fight at all theyh break contact to avoid wounds. Alot of dogs will fight without regard to being hurt in protection of their owners or their owners property or what they percieve as a reason to kill another animal. It is not unnatural or wrong for a dog to want to kill another animal it healthy normal behavior especially for some breeds i would be more worried if they didn't have that drive. Wanting to attack and harm people is a non tolerable for me, unless someone is physically attacking me or my family. my dog however has very high animal aggression which suits me just fine since we are absolutely swarmed by coyotes out here.
I concur.
CarlosDJackal
07-09-08, 12:46
that poor little creature was a BABY ;) had it been full grown, i do not believe your dog would have caught it, and if it did, you would be facing a pretty big Vet bill to make your dog whole again.
Darwinism in action!! :D
CarlosDJackal
07-09-08, 13:05
They are domesticated animals. Wild animals hunt and kill.
Granted, a cat might kill a bird or mouse. But when you're talking about an animal that can kill a child (like a Rotty or German Shepard), I'd be cautious.
Killing is "Red Zone" behavior.
Despite man's best efforts, we are never going to breed natural instincts out of other critters. Canines are inherently territorial and once an outsider crosses the line (like this fox), there really isn't anything much we can do to stop their natural need to defend what they think is theirs.
As far as children and pets, as long as the pets understand that the humans who live in their homes are part of the pack; and most importantly - that they (the pets) are below all other members of the pack in terms of their pecking order. Not much different from man if you think about it. JM2CW.
HAMMERDROP
07-09-08, 17:16
And the lady-expert from Midwest Doberman Rescue said she'd bring him over for a 'playdate' all my wifes doing ...well I almost puked. A 'playdate' DOGS DO NOT PLAY, everything they do is for for pack supremacy or to incease their heiracrchy within the pack, everything. I told this lady-expert call when your about a mile out I'll walk my Dobe away from the house and you and my wife can coo let the new guy 'taint' the place then start walking him up the street (minus my wife) who thinks she knows EVERYTHING and cannot keep her mouth shut sure I know she's entitled to her opinion and I love her but you should hear some of them ?!?!?
I wanted to test our Doberman Ingrids' territoriality (or my theory of it) and up the street the lady expert came with the prisoner in tow after sniffing around our house. I tried to stay between my Dobe and the adoptee in case, ( he was an inner city dog ready for the gas chamber when he was rescued) of any aggression, they approached each either he got somewhat submissive but his ears were perked and tail at high noon but since there was nothing to defend they sniffed crack we walked back to the house and now he resides with us FT has put on about 10 lbs and will be a great dog. His name is Tazz he is under a year old was rather mal-nourished but we're working with him.
The moral this 'expert' foster was so impressed with my approach to introduction thats her SOP now.
Can you imagine your doorbell ringing then letting the Taliban ( from the dogs point of view) in to pee on the furniture and hump your masters leg raid the food bowl and crash in your bed ? I'd kill the fox also !
Michael
Littlelebowski
08-05-08, 20:00
that poor little creature was a BABY ;) had it been full grown, i do not believe your dog would have caught it, and if it did, you would be facing a pretty big Vet bill to make your dog whole again.
Wrong. It was full grown. The first one he killed was a bit bigger. Don't know how big the foxes are where you live but I do know what I'm talking about.
Littlelebowski
08-05-08, 20:03
The dog is completely safe around guests. He's not so keen on intruders. I've never seen a dog that wouldn't take what that fox did personally.
The dog next to the GSD is a Chow/lab mix. She too, was plenty mad at the fox.
Most studies I've seen that I can find on Google list the Border Collie, Standard Poodle, and German Shepherd as the 3 smartest dog breeds with the Shepherd coming in third and the Border Collie first.
that poor little creature was a BABY ;) had it been full grown, i do not believe your dog would have caught it, and if it did, you would be facing a pretty big Vet bill to make your dog whole again.
German Shepherd vs. fox???? C'mon, man. A fox is no match in a fight with a dog four times his size; foxes are not to be confused with gamebred Pit Bulldogs.
That said, I find it interesting that the dog could catch them. They are speedy as "all out".
The dog is completely safe around guests. He's not so keen on intruders. I've never seen a dog that wouldn't take what that fox did personally.
The dog next to the GSD is a Chow/lab mix. She too, was plenty mad at the fox.
Most studies I've seen that I can find on Google list the Border Collie, Standard Poodle, and German Shepherd as the 3 smartest dog breeds with the Shepherd coming in third and the Border Collie first.
I don't think they can determine the SMARTEST breeds but they can determine the most TRACTABLE breeds.
Littlelebowski
08-05-08, 20:46
So you consider a German Shepherd one of the most "TRACTABLE" breeds?
Actually that looks like a full grown fox. They are considered pretty much full grown in about 4+ months from birth. They are only about the size of a beagle at the shoulders and much less massive. They weight in from 6.5-20ish pounds as adults. It's all hair when you do actually see them. That shepherd easily weighs in at 65+lbs! No match from the get go really.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beagling Even snoopies get in on the fox hunting fun!
Byte
Littlelebowski
08-06-08, 08:35
My dog weighs 87 lbs and is in damned good shape. The fox was snapping at him and he paid it no mind. He's been after this fox for almost a year and had chased it out in the open many times.
AllAmerican
08-06-08, 09:52
You're shitting me right?
Well I have been told Jack Russell's are the dumbest dogs on earth.....
Jack Russell (no joke it is my name)
I catch hell at the Vet.
The 5 that my sisters have must have missed the memo. By far the DUMBEST dogs on earth. My boxer isn't smart either but hey... he's a boxer. My mom had an old poodle that was a genius though.
Boxers, too, are one of the most intelligent breeds out there. Others include west highland terriers, poodles, and more.
It's a bit like people, though...there are geniuses, but there are also dumb asses. I had a poodle that did nothing but spin in counter-clockwise circles her whole life. No shit. Couldn't go right.
Littlelebowski
08-06-08, 10:11
It's been my experience that Jack Russells are some of the toughest and most stubborn dogs around. I have a lot of respect for the breed.
CarlosDJackal
08-06-08, 10:43
The 5 that my sisters have must have missed the memo. By far the DUMBEST dogs on earth. My boxer isn't smart either but hey... he's a boxer. My mom had an old poodle that was a genius though.
Either that or your sister bred the smarts out of them. :D
I've also heard that JRTs are the smartest domesticated breed overall. Their problem is not only are they very high strung, they get kinda tunnel visioned when it comes to killing rodents. The people I know who had JRTs tell me that they are so smart, they're very hard-headed for the most part.
No really, Jack Russell's are among the smartest breeds in the world...
i dunno about jack russells, but cairn terriers are a different kind of smart. not the same way as a german shepherd at all... they're ornery little bastards who get their way :D
Littlelebowski
08-07-08, 08:30
I've definitely never seen anything like the loyalty, devotion, and level of protection a German Shepherd instinctively displays. Almost intimidating sometimes.
I was at a campout sleeping on the ground with the dog curled up next to me (no tying up required) and a drunk staggered right up on us. It's a good thing I woke up quick and grabbed him because that dog assumed the drunk was trying to hurt us and was going into full defense mode which pretty much meant lunging for the drunk :D
He was fine around people the entire campout, he just took that incident seriously.
That incident made me think about the military K9 handlers in war whose dogs gave them the chance to grab some much needed sleep safely.
A full grown wild fox will kill a pet german shepard.
A fully trained VC guerilla will kill a 350lb bar bouncer.
same concept
Littlelebowski
08-07-08, 11:19
What? Are you kidding or something, Rally? I just showed you photographic evidence that a fully grown wild fox got killed like it was cool by my pet German Shepherd. The foxes were wild, full grown, and had not a chance against my German Shepherd.
Here's the fox he killed before that. Do you think I'm lying or Photoshopping these or something? Or are there some sort of mutated, huge, killer foxes roaming around your neck of the woods? Or maybe you think a 20-30lb fox can take down a 90lb German Shepherd by being wild alone?
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/photo.jpg
What? Are you kidding or something, Rally? I just showed you photographic evidence that a fully grown wild fox got killed like it was cool by my pet German Shepherd. The foxes were wild, full grown, and had not a chance against my German Shepherd.
Here's the fox he killed before that. Do you think I'm lying or Photoshopping these or something? Or are there some sort of mutated, huge, killer foxes roaming around your neck of the woods? Or maybe you think a 20-30lb fox can take down a 90lb German Shepherd by being wild alone?
Buddy, I have seen crazier things...
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q198/RallySoob/trophy.jpg
you don't wanna mess w/ the fox...
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q198/RallySoob/foxrabbits.jpg
Littlelebowski
08-07-08, 12:40
Well anyway, I'm not lying and my pet German Shepherd made mincemeat out of two full grown foxes.
Well anyway, I'm not lying and my pet German Shepherd made mincemeat out of two full grown foxes.
I hear ya man. I don't doubt it happened. I have seen a larger gray fox than in your picture fighting off 2 coyotes to protect her den and it was amazing. The fox went psychotic on the yotes, it was very impressive. Gray foxes aren't as shy as the red fox and are a more aggressive carnivore.
what state you in?
Littlelebowski
08-07-08, 13:15
Virginia.
Gutshot John
08-07-08, 13:30
I've definitely never seen anything like the loyalty, devotion, and level of protection a German Shepherd instinctively displays. Almost intimidating sometimes.
I was at a campout sleeping on the ground with the dog curled up next to me (no tying up required) and a drunk staggered right up on us. It's a good thing I woke up quick and grabbed him because that dog assumed the drunk was trying to hurt us and was going into full defense mode which pretty much meant lunging for the drunk :D
He was fine around people the entire campout, he just took that incident seriously.
That incident made me think about the military K9 handlers in war whose dogs gave them the chance to grab some much needed sleep safely.
This is the thing I love about working dogs. Smart and loyal. I've had two Cattle Dogs and both were fiercely devoted. The first one saved my ass in Big Bend by scaring off a Cougar. You should have seen the cat's face. He also chased off more than one burglar when I lived in San Antonio, I found at least one blood trail leading over my backyard fence, so he got someone real good.
He was totally cool so long as you were properly introduced, if you weren't and you came close to me...he'd rip your throat out.
My current one, Solomon, is much more social, but HYPER aware. I sleep soundly with him and my Canaan guarding the house.
I think there is a real need for some training to improve a house dog's "tactical" qualities without turning them into a military/attack dog which requires testing etc.
I've definitely never seen anything like the loyalty, devotion, and level of protection a German Shepherd instinctively displays. Almost intimidating sometimes.
I was at a campout sleeping on the ground with the dog curled up next to me (no tying up required) and a drunk staggered right up on us. It's a good thing I woke up quick and grabbed him because that dog assumed the drunk was trying to hurt us and was going into full defense mode which pretty much meant lunging for the drunk :D
He was fine around people the entire campout, he just took that incident seriously.
That incident made me think about the military K9 handlers in war whose dogs gave them the chance to grab some much needed sleep safely.
My boxer with my 1 year old is sight to see. He is attached to her hip. She has poked him in the eye, pulled his ears (he hates that), stole his food, taken his toys from him while hes chewing on them, etc etc. Really just terrorizes the poor beast. I'm constantly pulling her off of him as she climbs or jumps on him while he's laying down. Even so, every day hes right back next to her. Won't let her at of his sight. He used to sleep with us now he lays in front of her door all night. My wife was laughing that ever picture we have of our daughter so far has the dog in it somewhere. Has the "I'm watching you" look in every picture. Glad to have it that way then the other.
CarlosDJackal
08-07-08, 14:08
...I have seen a larger gray fox than in your picture fighting off 2 coyotes to protect her den ...
Just because an animal managed to fight off 2 larger ones to protect her den, it doesn't mean they will win that fight every time. Maternal instincts (read: survival of the species) can make even the smallest critter dangerous to the largest critter. Just sayin'. :eek:
Maternal instincts (read: survival of the species) can make even the smallest critter dangerous to the largest critter. Just sayin'. :eek:
My point exactly... I wouldn't think they could it w/ ease being that the weigh 1/3 as much but when nature calls they will go into action.
a fox in pursuit of stolen food is probably skitish
Littlelebowski
08-07-08, 14:53
I think it would take a damned big fox to handle my dog. Sure, the fox is fighting to survive, I watched it fight with my own eyes but my dog had murder in his eyes :D Take a look at the size comparison.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/photo2.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/image169.jpg
tango-papa
08-07-08, 18:37
That's a really good looking GSD!
You should see my Lab-Pit mix go after the occasional armadillo or possum in our backyard. He grabs them by the neck and with a few shakes... snap, dead. He always looks so proud after.:D
~tp
my Husky has always been very good with other animals,even small kittens and such.
...until he caught a possum getting into his food one night.
sounded like he was biting into a bag of corn flakes.
CarlosDJackal
08-08-08, 10:10
That's a nice pet you have. I love GSDs (along with Huskies and Belgian Malanois). If it weren't for the shedding of those wiry fur, I'd have at least one by now (I was allergic to fur as a child).
Littlelebowski
08-08-08, 11:07
The fur is a pain in the ass but he's worth it. Haven't owned a Malinois yet. I adopted this dog when he was 5 years old and he turned out great. Here he is attacking my lawnmower and dragging it off. He doesn't like the lawnmower for some reason.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_0315.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_0316.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_0317.jpg
So you consider a German Shepherd one of the most "TRACTABLE" breeds?
Absolutely.
If you need Hell on Four Legs and are allergic to fur try a working strain Airedale.
Thats a helluva dog Littlelebowski!
Only thing my Lab ever catches are squirrels.
AllAmerican
08-09-08, 09:28
I like this thread..... there is a reason they (dogs) are called mans best friend.
My little long hair chihuaua (my avatar) is the most alert dog I have owned. I can just look at her and tell if someone is around the place here, and if they get close she lets me know. On cool nights, I sleep with the door open, screen door shut, and she will wake me out of a dead sleep if anything is going on.
My sister has a GSD and he is a bear. Very disciplined and protective.
casio02478
08-09-08, 11:27
Great pics + great dog!
that poor little creature was a BABY ;) had it been full grown, i do not believe your dog would have caught it, and if it did, you would be facing a pretty big Vet bill to make your dog whole again.
Not a chance, that fox was very much average sized, not near a kit. a good size tom cat(not a bobcat) would do more damage than a fox. Hell a boar coon will kill a dog before a fox would or could. My Airedale and my cur dog have both killed full grown adult coyotes and it was not even a fight. Even full grown foxes are tiny and fragile. A decent sized dog with any fight in them will own even the biggest fox.
Additionally please don't think I hate foxes or encourage dogs to kill them, in fact on our property they get a pass and my dogs won't even chase them. You are right in that is is very unusual for a single or even a team of two dog to be able to catch the fox.
Also there is no reason at all to worry about a domesticated dog that kills a wild animal as long as the dog was set on the varmint by its master. That is what many working/guard dogs were bred for. My dogs do not even chase any animal unless instructed to do so be myself or my wife. I don't know much about ARs but I am learning thanks to BBs like this. However I do know a whole lot about mans best friend and wild animals in general. Many K9s were specifically bred to kill wild animals or give their life trying while protecting their masters and or the flock so to speak. A dog that kills a varmint is nothing to worring about. A dog that won't release or back away on command is a dog that needs work.
http://photos.imageevent.com/10mmgary/guns/websize/DSC02497.JPG
Littlelebowski
08-10-08, 17:19
Did someone say "coon?"
Meet Jezebel, the purest and fairest woman in Wyoming.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/jezebel075.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/DSCN0916-1.jpg
Sorry, but Boxers and Jack Russell's are NOT among the smartest breeds. See the book, "The Intelligence of Dogs", by Stanley Coren.
Littlelebowski is correct about Border Collies, Poodles, and German Shepards being the most intelligent. Although, I will say that I've had two Chesapeake Bay Retrievers that belie the ratings in that book. One obedience instructor told me that I had one of the best obedience dogs he had ever seen and he trained the number two Schutzhund dog in the country. Chessie's will just not work for anybody but their owners.
hello bleeding hearts,, dogs aresupposed to kill anything that shits in their food bowl...duhhh!!!! my black-mouth cur will tune up anything that comes in my yard,,, dilla killer. she sleeps at the foot of my bed since a small pup, shame on anyone that try's to come in my house at night. [first the dawg, then the shotgun] i'll also tell you for a fact, a fox is no problem for her, black-mouth curs were bred as lion and boar dogs,, i'll testify to the breds heart.
good dog, protect what is yours!
Blackwater
08-24-08, 10:24
Beautiful dog. My German Sheppard used to attack the lawn mower and edger also. :)
Sorry, but Boxers and Jack Russell's are NOT among the smartest breeds. See the book, "The Intelligence of Dogs", by Stanley Coren.
Littlelebowski is correct about Border Collies, Poodles, and German Shepards being the most intelligent. Although, I will say that I've had two Chesapeake Bay Retrievers that belie the ratings in that book. One obedience instructor told me that I had one of the best obedience dogs he had ever seen and he trained the number two Schutzhund dog in the country. Chessie's will just not work for anybody but their owners.
I think we're confusing lack of "intelligence" with stubbornness. ALL of the terriers are hard-headed, gamey rascals and they are extremely intelligent. Their intelligence is combined with feistiness, tencity and aggression.
One will also find independence/stubbornness in working strain Shepherds, Malinau and Dutch Shepherds. In fact, they can be difficult to handle due to high prey drive and dominance. It doesn't make them any less intelligent.
I think we're confusing lack of "intelligence" with stubbornness. ALL of the terriers are hard-headed, gamey rascals and they are extremely intelligent. Their intelligence is combined with feistiness, tencity and aggression.
One will also find independence/stubbornness in working strain Shepherds, Malinau and Dutch Shepherds. In fact, they can be difficult to handle due to high prey drive and dominance. It doesn't make them any less intelligent.
Nope. Read the book. Intelligence has to do with problem solving, among other things. Stubbornness has to do with obedience. Obedience is different than intelligence.
Nope. Read the book. Intelligence has to do with problem solving, among other things. Stubbornness has to do with obedience. Obedience is different than intelligence.
I have read the book. I disagree. Working Hounds are extremely stubborn (not tractable at all) but they are highly intelligent dogs. Same with working strain GSDs, Belgian Malinau, Dutch Shepherds, all terriers and most if not all Molossids (Mastiffs and Mastiff-derived dogs).
I WILL state that the breeds you listed DO interact/respond to/with humans to a higher degree than others - such as Samoyeds, Huskies, Malamutes, etc.
I've been around working dogs all of my life. As well as house dogs such as Poodles, Poodle + Bichon Frise crosses. The latter is especially "tuned" to humans; very tractable but I've not found them to be more intelligent than the working dogs I've been around - just more entertaining. :p
I had a dog, she had a goat. When my 13 week old Heeler pup walked right up to her pet Nubian goat, the goat decided to stage three mock charges (Big Horn sheep style) ending right up in the pups face. The pup just stood there, calm but alert, with its head tilted slightly to one side. Thinking it not right that a domesticated beast should back-sass a lively working dog without consequence, even if it was a pup, I quietly ordered "go get'em". In a flash the pup began heeling the billy all over the 3 acre lot. Some friends were over, and while I genuinely felt sorry for the goat and tried to stop it at first, eventually we just couldn't stop laughing. We were practically rolling on the ground. The poor flustered goat eventually ran up the stairs, stumbled and broke off both its horns.
Well she was pissed for days, and finally gave the goat away to a "better home". Out of self-preservation I did not tell her that those friends of ours were definitely going to eat the goat, and in fact they gave us some of its smoked meat. Anyhow, she fried it up for dinner one night, not one the wiser.
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