?Does an EoTech 512 turn off automatically . . . ?

[DarrinD]

If I leave my EoTech 512 on during the night, or day for that matter, does it have an automatic timed power off? If not, does anyone leave theirs on all the time and if so how much time on do you get? I've been leaving mine off on my Home SD LE M4, but thought I don't want a third step to deal with in the event I had to grab the M4 and go (chamber round and flip selector to fire are enough to deal with in a potentially high stress home invasion or robbery scenario).

Thanks for any input.

[Rommel]

It turns itself off in 4hrs if you turned it on with the left (down) button, and 8hrs if you fired it up using the right (up) button.

I guess if you use the up button you can get 8 hrs of sleep without that to worry about. I seem to be able to sleep with mine off.

I hear you get 1000hrs (or more) with lithium AAs, but I have not exhausted the alkalines the gun shop left in mine, so YMMV.

[Cameron]

but thought I don't want a third step to deal with in the event I had to grab the M4 and go (chamber round and flip selector to fire are enough to deal with in a potentially high stress home invasion or robbery scenario).

That's very funny right there!!

[RD62]

As mentioned above. It does have an auto shut off. The issues you mentioned are one reason I run fixed iron sights on my rifles. If you really don't want to worry about it turning off get an aimpoint.

Also if you store your rifle in condition 4 ( bolt locked to the rear, safety on, dust cover closed) all you have to do is seat the mag, slap the bolt release and disengage the safety. Should be faster than sling shotting the charging handle, and maybe the extra second will give you the time you are looking for to turn on your EOTech. Just a thought.

-RD62

[Forgetfull]

As mentioned above. It does have an auto shut off. The issues you mentioned are one reason I run fixed iron sights on my rifles. If you really don't want to worry about it turning off get an aimpoint.

Also if you store your rifle in condition 4 ( bolt locked to the rear, safety on, dust cover closed) all you have to do is seat the mag, slap the bolt release and disengage the safety. Should be faster than sling shotting the charging handle, and maybe the extra second will give you the time you are looking for to turn on your EOTech. Just a thought.

-RD62

I'm a little rusty on springs and harmonic motion from physics so forgive this question.
Would keeping the bolt locked back create bad pressure on your buffer spring?

[Cameron]

If you don't have enough time to run the bolt or turn an EOTech on perhaps a Glock with a round in the chamber is what you need.

[DarrinD]

If you don't have enough time to run the bolt or turn an EOTech on perhaps a Glock with a round in the chamber is what you need.

I ignored your first quip, but I guess you have nothing better to do than take pot shots at a relatively new student to an M4 with an EOtech on it. . . . so:
1. I sold my Glocks for M&P's, but they are only to fight my way to my long gun (which has always been a SG)
2. I'm obviously not the expert you are with AR's and optics, but you have no relevant advice for me so I have no use for your posts.
3. Therefore, if you don't have something productive to say, why don't you go be condescending to someone else. I ignored your first post. I'm seeking advise from the experts, and they are giving me good advice. You are simply inane and unwelcome on this thread. Thank you in advance for your disappearance. :D

[Cameron]

The problem is this; your initial premise is flawed and therefore, rather than address the issue of which conditions to keep your AR/EOTech in you should consider the premise.

You argue that you wont have enough time to turn on an EOTech after running the bolt and manipulating the safety. I say that doesn't make any sense at all and perhaps you are looking to use a rifle in a reactionary situation where you are running behind the curve?? Perhaps in this situation you are much better served with a handgun that can be employed quickly without the need to turn on or manipulate anything.

If you don't have enough time to run the bolt, change the position of the safety and turn on an EOTech you are really out of time to start with. Hence my valid point about have a handgun close by in order to be in action quickly.

Keep your AR loaded condition 1, round in the chamber safety on? Then all you will have to do it turn on the EOTech and manipulate the safety??

Keep your EOTech on for 8 eights and set a reminder on your watch to keep turning it on again??

Buy an AIMPoint and leave it on for a year or so??

There are many options to solve the question you had in the first thread, the problem is that none of them are really valid as the initial question is flawed.

I have a loaded AR with an EOTech for self defense in my home and vehicle, if I am in a situation that I do not have enough time to turn on the EOTech then I really should be using that time to do something else. So I have my AR condition 3 with the EOTech off and a hangdun either cocked and locked (1911) or Cocked and Unlocked (Glock).

You are asking a tactics question and trying for a hardware answer, that is inane...

[DarrinD]

Keep your AR loaded condition 1, round in the chamber safety on? Then all you will have to do it turn on the EOTech and manipulate the safety??

You are asking a tactics question and trying for a hardware answer, that is inane...

You obviously don't know the AR as well as you pretend, as it is generally not considered safe to keep an AR in condition 1 for extended periods of time when not within your immediate grasp or control. You also don't have any idea what my self defense needs are and why I might need my M4 before my pistol that is in condition 1 on my nightstand. It was a simple question about whether the EOtech had an automatic off timer. It does, my question is solved, and I'll go back to feeling as prepared and SAFE as possible with my M4 in condition 3 with my nightstand handgun in condition 1. Have a nice day.

[Cameron]

You obviously don't know the AR as well as you pretend, as it is generally not considered safe to keep an AR in condition 1 for extended periods of time when not within your immediate grasp or control.
I am not sure which point I should take on:
me pretending to know the AR WTF:confused:

General consideration that an AR is unsafe in condition one
So I have my AR condition 3 with the EOTech off and a handgun either cocked and locked (1911) or Cocked and Unlocked (Glock).


Relax man, just because I disagree with your original premise there is no need to get your knickers in a twist.

I simply said that, the time required to turn an EOTech on is inconsequential to a self defense situation.

I am glad you came around to my way of thinking as you now have your weapons in the same condition I have had mine for years.

Cameron

[DarrinD]

I am not sure . . . .
Cameron

Thank you. Like I said: Have a nice day.

[Cameron]

You are most welcome.

We try to help people here.

Cameron

Ps. Have you put a rear BUIS on that 6920 yet?

[molsen]

When in doubt, RTFM.

[DarrinD]

molsen,

I did read the manual when I bought it a year ago, but my X-wife kept it during the divorce. :mad: Being the "rank amateur" your sig line ascribes to me, I decided to pose the question to the M4C member "manual" because I generally get better, more accurate, and faster answers here - plus I couldn't remember if there's a difference between the military EOtech's made for NV and the LE/civillian models like what I have mounted.

BTW: Aren't all members of the military supposed to be "professional?"

[RD62]

I'm a little rusty on springs and harmonic motion from physics so forgive this question.
Would keeping the bolt locked back create bad pressure on your buffer spring?

Negative.


Wear comes from repeated cycles of the spring, as in firing. Not a continued compression, like the bolt locked to the rear or mags loaded. That said springs ARE a wear item and must be checked and replaced routinely. Thankfully they are inexpensive.


-RD62

[RD62]

I understand your concern in keeping a loaded rifle in the house. I have a very curious 3 year old and all weapons and ammo stay way out of reach as much as humanly possible. I also believe an unloaded weapon is slightly more useful as a paperweight than a defensive tool. I feel a loaded Glock (my personal nightstand gun also) is innately less safe than my onsafe loaded rifle. And certainly less safe than my on safe rifle with a mag seated and the chamber empty, bolt forward or to the rear. In fact I think perhaps the best compromise is a seated loaded mag, safety OFF, bolt forward on an empty chamber. No mag to seat, no safety to disengage, only the charging handle needing to be manipulated. Slower than the bolt locked to the rear, but less likely to be inadvertently made "hot".

I would never dare TELL you how to best store them for your circumstances, as I don't know what those are. I'm just offering you some suggestions that may be faster and just as sure.

And again if you feel the weapon should be immediately available and turning on an EOTech one more step than you wish to take (your choice) I would suggest either fixed sights used in cowitness to the optic of your choice or an Aimpoint that can be left on at all times for years.

Good luck in your search for what works best for you!

-RD62

[Forgetfull]

I understand your concern in keeping a loaded rifle in the ...

-RD62

Exactly How I keep mine now. Very effective if you might have little ones around. But the best protection is to keep kids completely away.

[DarrinD]

In fact I think perhaps the best compromise is a seated loaded mag, safety OFF, bolt forward on an empty chamber. No mag to seat, no safety to disengage, only the charging handle needing to be manipulated.

Good luck in your search for what works best for you!

-RD62

I would like to keep my M4 in the above condition. The only difference is that I keep the safety "on" only because that's how it is univesally taught and I THOUGHT that it would be better to stick to the same SOP for my M4, although I'd rather keep it as described above, which is essentially how I've kept my HD SG all these years, chamber empty, slide locked forward, pipe loaded. So, for consistency in muscle memory I probably keep it as described above but with the manual safety on.

[SpartanArms]

DarrinD,

I'm not quite sure where to begin, as you've ended up posing several different questions here in this thread. Let's start with your original one.

1. Yes, the Eotech will shut itself off automatically to save battery power. Like Rommel said, use the left brightness button for 4 hours and the right brightness button for 8 hours. All Eotech's do this, both the NV compatible and non-NV compatible versions.

2. If the automatic shut-off feature bothers you I would strongly advise getting an Aimpoint, which you can leave on for a minimum of a year without turning it off. Either that or simply rely on your irons. Or you could train yourself to hit the brightness button every time you pick up your rifle, that's what I used to do. That's why I am in the process of switching to Aimpoint's for all my rifles.

3. As for the condition you keep your weapons in, that's entirely up to you. It will be different for most people, depending upon several factors (do you have kids, do you have a spouse, are your kids or spouse familiar with weapons, etc.). However, you must realize you are starting behind the curve if you keep your home defense weapons all with an empty chamber. I personally keep both of my ready weapons (Smith M&P45 and LMT AR-15) in Condition 1, but that may not work for many people due to their personal situation.

4. I do not believe Molsen means to insult you with his sig line. Unless you are mounting your Eotech way out on a rail fore-end or you wear a Safariland 6004 holster way down low like Marshall Dillon from Gunsmoke. And yes, people in the .mil community are all supposed to be trained professionals, but not all are. Too much of the military these days is made up of POG's and staff pukes. The true warriors are getting fewer and fewer. Also, limited training dollars makes it harder and harder to keep all military personnel up to a "warrior" or "professional" standard.

In the end you have to make these "hardware" and "software" or gear and tactics decisions for yourself based on what works for you in your circumstances/surroundings. You may find you change your mind about gear and tactics the longer you ponder/deal-with these issues. Good luck, sir. And nice to have you here.:D

[hillmillenia]

If I may inteject...This joint is beginning to have that AR15.com stench. So many that know so much.:rolleyes:

[Cameron]

If I may inteject...This joint is beginning to have that AR15.com stench. So many that know so much.:rolleyes:

Exactly!

[DarrinD]

DarrinD,

I'm not quite sure where to begin, as you've ended up posing several different questions here in this thread. Let's start with your original one.

. . . .
3. As for the condition you keep your weapons in, that's entirely up to you. It will be different for most people, depending upon several factors (do you have kids, do you have a spouse, are your kids or spouse familiar with weapons, etc.). However, you must realize you are starting behind the curve if you keep your home defense weapons all with an empty chamber. I personally keep both of my ready weapons (Smith M&P45 and LMT AR-15) in Condition 1, but that may not work for many people due to their personal situation.

4. I do not believe Molsen means to insult you with his sig line. . . . . The true warriors are getting fewer and fewer. Also, limited training dollars makes it harder and harder to keep all military personnel up to a "warrior" or "professional" standard.

In the end you have to make these "hardware" and "software" or gear and tactics decisions for yourself based on what works for you in your circumstances/surroundings. You may find you change your mind about gear and tactics the longer you ponder/deal-with these issues. Good luck, sir. And nice to have you here.:D

Thanks so much for an informative and well written response. I personally have no problem keeping my rifle in condition 1 with the safety on and th EOtech on while it is next to my bed at night, or within my control. However, I have had a couple BTDT guys state that because of the difference between the safety's in a rifle and a pistol, it is not a good idea to keep it in that condition for an extended period. :confused:

For some of my self defense possibilities, my pistol in con 1 may be okay, but there are others I have that I want to be able to choose/bring my rifle into a home defensive fight as soon as possible. Until I picked up my LE M4, I've kept my shotgun safety off, chamber empty, tube full. I would like to keep my M4 Condition 1, but I'm getting different opinions. Weapons safety and handling is one thing I am an expert at, and so I feel competent in that regard. I am not an expert in how the safety's are "different between" the M&P I keep loaded and ready on the nightstand and my M4 . . . . If it IS safe, with safe gun handling skills of course, I'd prefer to have my M4 against the wall next to my bed, EOtech on, round chambered, safety on. I'd rather not work the charging handle or EOtech light at night or under stress.

Thoughts or problems with that (mainly with keeping a round chambered for an extended period between range visits)?

Thanks again for you post

Darrin

[SpartanArms]

DarrinD,

As far as the mechanics of the safety mechanisms are concerned there is absolutely no reason why an AR-15 (or most modern weapons) can't be kept loaded, with a round in the chamber for an extended period of time. The only safety issue there could possibly be is that some people don't want to leave a weapon loaded because someone other than them might pick it up and discharge it. In other words, if all the parts are in proper condition/working order, the weapon is not going to fire itself or break down from being left loaded. The only time I've ever heard of someone having a mechanical issue with an AR-15/M-16 left loaded for prolonged periods was back during Vietnam. The humidity levels in the jungles would often times cause a cartridge casing to swell and become stuck in the chamber of the weapon. However inside a house (or even most places outdoors) that shouldn't be an issue.:D

[DWood]

I would like to keep my M4 in the above condition. The only difference is that I keep the safety "on" only because that's how it is univesally taught ..................

I keep my carbine by the bed with a full mag but no round in the chamber. The safety is off, as there is no way to flip it on safe until the bolt is racked. The only way to have the safety on with an empty chamber is to rack the bolt with no mag, put the safety on, and insert a loaded mag. I don't see any point in that.

More food for thought, you will also need to manipulate a light if you need to work in the dark. More equipment management skills required.

Training with all the equipment you plan to use will resolve all these issues, at least in my opinion.

[DarrinD]

More food for thought, you will also need to manipulate a light if you need to work in the dark. More equipment management skills required.

Training with all the equipment you plan to use will resolve all these issues, at least in my opinion.

DW, I like your method/condition because it is how I keep all of my long guns, including HD SG. However, while I can get proficient at that practicing myself, won't most professional trainers instruct, and expect, that I know how to manipulate the safety. If I am used to my M4 chamber empty and safety off, then I can see me not developing that habit.

I want to minimize the manipulation of equipment in the dark, and that motivated me to start this thread. I do have a good SureFire M900 series light/grip, which makes low light/no light manipulation considerably easier to learn how to manipulate through practice/training. Training can resolve just about everything, I just don't want to end up without batteries (see above) or have to many steps that I can't adequately prepare or train for. Keeping it simple really applies to THIS Stupid. ;) Thanks for your POV; I like it.

[thopkins22]

The safety is off, as there is no way to flip it on safe until the bolt is racked. The only way to have the safety on with an empty chamber is to rack the bolt with no mag, put the safety on, and insert a loaded mag. I don't see any point in that.

When you take a class/train/fingerbang/whatever with your rifle, do you ignore the safety as well? Why start a fight intentionally throwing yourself out of whack?

What doesn't make sense to me is why your hammer would be down in the first place. The gun will have to be racked to fire regardless.

[DarrinD]

When you take a class/train/fingerbang/whatever with your rifle, do you ignore the safety as well? Why start a fight intentionally throwing yourself out of whack?.

This is what I intimated to previously, that SOP is safety always on until ready to fire, so I wouldn't want to develop a habit and then show up at my next carbine class with a bad habit. My first class was taught safety always on and condition 1 only when carbine being held. Training to bring carbine up to proper stance, grip and aim all have included sweeping the safety to FIRE as a part of it. So, I must agree that I don't want to be out of "whack" and it's not a big deal to keep the safety on and chamber empty unless getting ready to fire. At least I know I won't have to train to also manipulate my EOtech's on switch. I'd love to see red dot sights hard wired to M4's so that the safety switch activates the red dot.

[DarrinD]

When you take a class/train/fingerbang/whatever with your rifle . . . .

Do I want to know what "fingerbang" is?

- perhaps dry firing? or something, else?

[thopkins22]

Do I want to know what "fingerbang" is?

- perhaps dry firing? or something, else?

Err...yeah, dry firing;). LOL No, I was trying to be PC.

I'm glad your keeping the safety on.

[DWood]

Why would you want the safety on when there is no round in the chamber?

[DarrinD]

Why would you want the safety on when there is no round in the chamber?

Because that's how everyone (that I have heard of) is trained in AR/M4 carbine, from military to LE to civilians. So, you keep it on "safe" to develop a habit that is "universally" accepted as the way to keep your AR, chamber empty or loaded, because when bringing the AR up to fire, most instructors teach to sweep the selector switch to Fire before you've lined your sights up on target. I have read of a few soldiers and operators who don't use an M4's manual safety, but I won't ever earn the "right" to make an exception to that general rule. If it is not a "general rule" and I am mistaken, please someone feel free to correct me. How about any soldiers who have been through basic or training relatively recently . . . .how are you being taught with regard to the safety and storage requiremnts. . . . and then how do you actually DO IT in practice?

[DWood]

You seem to have combined military personel who patrol dangerous streets with a carbine locked an loaded, and on safe, with those who sleep safely at home with a carbine next to the bed with no round in the chamber, but ready to deploy at the sound of an intruder.

Figure out what you want. An AR-15 cocked, with an empty chamber, and on safe is a ridiculous premise. I doubt that anyone you have heard of is trained to walk around, or sleep, cocked and locked with an empty chamber. Absolutely ridiculous.

[DarrinD]

Figure out what you want. An AR-15 cocked, with an empty chamber, and on safe is a ridiculous premise. I doubt that anyone you have heard of is trained to walk around, or sleep, cocked and locked Absolutely ridiculous.

As I previously mentioned, it's not my "rediculous premise" as I am simply repeating what a few LEOs, soldiers, and AR Insructors have said or wrote on the matter. I don't pretend to be an AR expert but I've learned a lot here. Thanks for the POV.

[hillmillenia]

The bottom line is this. As with a 1911 in condition one. And assuming you don't have kiddies running about squeezing your triggers. You should always keep a chambered round in your piece with the safety on. lose the optic and go with a light that turns on when you grap the PG. If things go south, you only have to pop the safety down...this should be reactionary, and deal with the situation at hand. I concurr that dischaging a 5.56mm in your house will probably kill the Family bird and permanently disable the dogs and cats!. IMHO become proficient with a handgun, Use a prefragged round and a light and practice head shots 'till it's second nature. Semi-auto military style rifles and designs for street fighting in most cases...yeah, yeah, There is always an exception but don't take a bazooka to penny shoot

[jasonhgross]

If your preventative measures have failed (alarm, dog, locks) and your go sign is a guy beating you in the head with a bat, I think the handgun is your way out. Not to beat a dead horse, but rifles in general are poor reactive weapons. For the bedside immediate action scenario, a pistol, secured in a bedside safe (children) or in a holster (no children) is your best option. A rifle a few steps away or otherwise secured unloaded, optics off is good if you have time. Pushing the on button on the Eotech should be just part of your mounting technique (as you continue to asses the situation from cover - grab gun, rack charging handle, push safe on, turn on optic)

[DarrinD]

If your preventative measures have failed (alarm, dog, locks) and your go sign is a guy beating you in the head with a bat, I think the handgun is your way out. Not to beat a dead horse, but rifles in general are poor reactive weapons.

I agree that rifles are poor reactive weapons, and that a nightstand handgun should usually be the first Go To defesive weapon. However, everyone must assess risk differently according to their circumstances. I thought it was undisclosed by the Phoenix PD, but was told it has been talked about here. Briefly, in Phoenix and several other southwestern cities, Mexican Drug Cartel fire teams have been executing home invasions with police uniforms, weapons, and tactics. Maybe there's nothig I could do against such an invasion were it to ever occur. Nonetheless, I'm not going to try to defend my family with my hnadgun and 13 bullets. My first "reaction" must then be to grab the rifle, and I posed the initial question because I want it to be as simple YET as safe as possible. It's a balancing scale, but that's my take without turning this into a tactical thread - though the two issues are interrelated. I'd just rather keep a lot of batteries on hand and keep it on during the night when fewer vaiables can only be better.

[jasonhgross]

Forget the tactics and even the equipment for a minute. If you are concerned about the sight being on, get an aimpoint and change out the cheap batteries once a year for good measure. You can leave the aimpoint on all the time. This will remedy your psychological concern regarding the scope.

I had a similar problem with round capacity. Used to carry revolvers and .45 single stacks frequently. But the more I read about actual real world scenarios, and heard about them from those who had been there, I realized you can never have too much capacity. Many training courses cemented this feeling. Would I be fine with 6 or 8. Most likely, but the psychological worry over not having enough bore down on me, so I got used to carrying a G19, now I never even worry about having not enough. When I carry, the 15+1 plus 15 I carry alevietes those concerns so I can worry about the tasks at hand.

In the end, life is too short, if you have a nagging dilema about the batteries running out, sell the Eotech (I have an eotech and really like it) and get the Aimpoint.

[DarrinD]

Forget the tactics and even the equipment for a minute. If you are concerned about the sight being on, get an aimpoint and change out the cheap batteries once a year for good measure.

In the end, life is too short, if you have a nagging dilema about the batteries running out, sell the Eotech (I have an eotech and really like it) and get the Aimpoint.

I never said I have a nagging dilemma about the batteries, an issue that came along later. I don't mind chaning them out. I tried the EOtech and Aimpoint side by side on the range and they both have their strong points but the EOtech is much better for ME and I would never sell it. I agree that "Life IS too short" which is why I origninally was concerned with whether my EOtech red dot would turn off after X hours, or if I'd have to set an alarm to check it to turn it off from time to time. Keeping it on is not the question, I will regardless of battery price because I too believe life is too short to add more variables from sleep to Go status. . . . . but that's just me and my training expereience.

[DarrinD]

The bottom line is this. As with a 1911 in condition one. And assuming you don't have kiddies running about squeezing your triggers. You should always keep a chambered round in your piece with the safety on. lose the optic and go with a light that turns on when you grap the PG. If things go south, you only have to pop the safety down...this should be reactionary, and deal with the situation at hand. I concurr that dischaging a 5.56mm in your house will probably kill the Family bird and permanently disable the dogs and cats!. IMHO become proficient with a handgun, Use a prefragged round and a light and practice head shots 'till it's second nature. Semi-auto military style rifles and designs for street fighting in most cases...yeah, yeah, There is always an exception but don't take a bazooka to penny shoot

My understanding is that an AR/M4/M16 does not have a firing pin block, which is reason enough for me not to want a round in the chamber unless I have it in my hands preparing or ready to shoot at an intended target. . . . . and I could not disagree more with your opinion about the effectiveness of pre-frag pistol rounds, but that would only make for a good debate in the Handguns Forum.

[RD62]

I think this thread has strayed way off-topic.

The original question was long ago answered.

If you have decided that your rifle and it's stored condition are the best for you and your situation. That's good! I don't see what the continued debate is about from everyone.

There is some excellent info by DocGKR on preferred defensive 5.56 ammo by situation on tactical forums, in their terminal effects forum. There is also a thread listing preferred handgun defensive ammo for most popular calibers. I would suggest reading it if you haven't yet.

As for the concussive effects of firing a rifle vs a pistol indoors. That is a poor reason to pick one over the other. With good ammo the performance edge of the rifle is undeniable. And while the pistol with good ammo may be effective, it doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job. (And FYI I didn't see any Glaser or similar rounds listed). If the time comes and the adrenaline dumps, auditory exclusion (similar to the tunnel vision effect) MAY mitigate the effects of muzzle blast for many involved, both participant and witness. And if it doesn't I'd rather have a DRT badguy and ringing ears, than be able to hear him cussing at me as he continues to fight, aka I'd rather be deaf than dead.

However, If you plan to deploy a rifle in defense of your home, I suggest participating in good training as soon and often as time and finances will allow. Something like EAG's 3 day carbine operators course followed by their 4 day tactical carbine course which includes time in the shoot house, and will teach you effective ways to maneuver and engage targets within the confines of a building and expose you to what it's like to fire a weapon in close quarters, if you haven't already.

Good luck in your search to find the best setup for you and your home.

-RD62

[DarrinD]

I think this thread has strayed way off-topic.

The original question was long ago answered.

If you have decided that your rifle and it's stored condition are the best for you and your situation. That's good! I don't see what the continued debate is about from everyone.

There is some excellent info by DocGKR on preferred defensive 5.56 ammo by situation on tactical forums, in their terminal effects forum. There is also a thread listing preferred handgun defensive ammo for most popular calibers. I would suggest reading it if you haven't yet.

As for the concussive effects of firing a rifle vs a pistol indoors. That is a poor reason to pick one over the other. With good ammo the performance edge of the rifle is undeniable. And while the pistol with good ammo may be effective, it doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job. (And FYI I didn't see any Glaser or similar rounds listed). If the time comes and the adrenaline dumps, auditory exclusion (similar to the tunnel vision effect) MAY mitigate the effects of muzzle blast for many involved, both participant and witness. And if it doesn't I'd rather have a DRT badguy and ringing ears, than be able to hear him cussing at me as he continues to fight, aka I'd rather be deaf than dead.

However, If you plan to deploy a rifle in defense of your home, I suggest participating in good training as soon and often as time and finances will allow. Something like EAG's 3 day carbine operators course followed by their 4 day tactical carbine course which includes time in the shoot house, and will teach you effective ways to maneuver and engage targets within the confines of a building and expose you to what it's like to fire a weapon in close quarters, if you haven't already.

Good luck in your search to find the best setup for you and your home.

-RD62

Thanks for the info, and I agree the thread did stray a bit. After one training class, I turned to ammo selection and ended up buying a case of Hornady TAP 5.56mm 75gr. The .223 TAP probably would have been fine for Home or Urban defense, but that's what I chose. Other pistol rounds might be better for indoors, but I stick to the same round for everything, including range time: Fed Tactical 9mm +P 135gr. I've taken one basic course, am signed up for two more: another one day course and one two day courses. I don't have the time or I would go up to Gunsite for one of their 5 day Carbine courses.

? Another question though, even if off topic, that you raise: How much worse is the dB level of a 14.5" M4 indoors with 5.56mm ammo than at the range or outdoors? Not that it would cause me to go back to my shotgun for home defense, but would like to know some opinions from those who know.

[RD62]

Honestly I have no earthly idea. But I have to wonder if once you reach a certain level, can you even tell the difference, or is it all just really loud?

Seriously though. My HD rifle is a LMT 10.5. It's gonna be loud! But my pistols gonna be pretty damn loud too. And an 18" shotty is gonna be pretty damn loud too! But with the LMT I have better stopping power than the pistol. A mounted light (the pistol has a handheld and the shotty none). A RDS. More stable shooting platform than the pistol. Better mag capacity than either the shotty or pistol. Less recoil than the shotty. Less chance of overpenetration than either the pistol or shotty. Less muzzle flash than the pistol or shotty.

I've never been in a shooting (Thank God) but have been in several adrenaline inducing situations where I have experienced varying degrees of auditory exclusion, enough to believe it to be true. In fact if you've ever been big game hunting, and had a nice animal walkout, you will often realise that after the shot your ears don't ring. They will on the range, but not when that adrenaline dumps, and the heart rate rockets, and repiration rate increases, etc.

I wanna pick up a sound suppressor one day. But until then I'll deal with it. I don't practice without hearing protection, but if you wanna try popping a few of indoors, be my guest. Let me know how they compare. Just don't yell, I'll still be able to hear fine! :D

-RD62

[nickdrak]

An AR-15 cocked, with an empty chamber, and on safe is a ridiculous premise. I doubt that anyone you have heard of is trained to walk around, or sleep, cocked and locked with an empty chamber. Absolutely ridiculous.

However ridiculous you may find it, this is the SOP for most LE agencies who patrol with AR's mounted in their patrol cars.

[Steve in PA]

However ridiculous you may find it, this is the SOP for most LE agencies who patrol with AR's mounted in their patrol cars.

Yup, our rifles are carried exactly like that; hammer cocked, safety on, bolt closed, chamber empty and full magazine inserted.

[nickdrak]

Yup, our rifles are carried exactly like that; hammer cocked, safety on, bolt closed, chamber empty and full magazine inserted.

Same here, we also use the "Chamber Safe" chamber block/flag: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=26690&title=CHAMBER%20BLOCKING%20DEVICE

[nickdrak]

Why would you want the safety on when there is no round in the chamber?


Because you cannot place the selector to "SAFE" until the AR's hammer is cocked. Therefore, if you chamber a round on a weapon stored in the "FIRE" position with an empty chamber, you have a cocked and UN-locked weapon.

Additionally, AR's do not have a firing pin block, and if stored in a patrol car with a loaded chamber whether on "SAFE'" or "FIRE' a sudden impact such as a vehicle accident could cause the AR to discharge.

[RogerinTPA]

Boy did this thread dive off a cliff....

[nickdrak]

Boy did this thread dive off a cliff....

If I leave my EoTech 512 on during the night, or day for that matter, does it have an automatic timed power off? If not, does anyone leave theirs on all the time and if so how much time on do you get? I've been leaving mine off on my Home SD LE M4, but thought I don't want a third step to deal with in the event I had to grab the M4 and go (chamber round and flip selector to fire are enough to deal with in a potentially high stress home invasion or robbery scenario).

Thanks for any input.

Not really too far off from the OP's original post above.