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recon
11-03-08, 22:52
Maybe ?
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=781144

Jay Cunningham
11-03-08, 23:04
SinnFéinM1911 is the #1 source for information on this topic. If he decides to post in this thread then you can take it as gospel.

Spooky130
11-04-08, 07:16
That would be great if they are in full production soon - sooner the better.

Spooky

Dave L.
11-04-08, 08:00
I'll pay retail price and ship a case of beer to get a SCAR (dealers pm me) :D

Dave L.
11-05-08, 15:04
Bump!

Did FN release the prices yet?

markm
11-05-08, 15:31
Doesn't Stickman have a couple three dozen of these SCAR things? I don't know what the who/what/when/or why is on these SCAR Schmars, XM8s, TAVORs, etc. It's all "grass is greener on the other side" crazy stuff to me. ;)

(oh yeah: I forgot about the Masada too!)

Dave L.
11-05-08, 15:51
Doesn't Stickman have a couple three dozen of these SCAR things? I don't know what the who/what/when/or why is on these SCAR Schmars, XM8s, TAVORs, etc. It's all "grass is greener on the other side" crazy stuff to me. ;)

(oh yeah: I forgot about the Masada too!)

I only want the prices to come out so I can say "damn, I can buy 3 6920's for that price"...then go buy them.

markm
11-05-08, 16:04
I only want the prices to come out so I can say "damn, I can buy 3 6920's for that price"...then go buy them.

That's true. If the old AR is "last season", the prices will go down!

John_Wayne777
11-05-08, 16:51
I only want the prices to come out so I can say "damn, I can buy 3 6920's for that price"...then go buy them.

Fortier over on ARFCOM is claiming that FN released the price to him. $2,696.56

I like the SCAR after handling it. I don't think I like it $2,696.56 worth.

Hopefully our favorite FN rep will be along shortly to tell us that whoever came up with that figure is on crack....

Stephen_H
11-05-08, 16:52
David Fortier is reporting an MSRP of $2,696.56 on Ar-15.com.

Stephen

Ed L.
11-05-08, 21:34
I ran into an FN LE rep in a gun store today and asked him and he claimed the civilian SCAR was 6 to 8 months away from release.

Dave L.
11-05-08, 23:15
Fortier over on ARFCOM is claiming that FN released the price to him. $2,696.56



Ha! They can keep it. I would pay $2,200 for a SCAR-H, but that's F-ing outrageous for a 556 rifle.

...isn't Fortier that douche bag that writes for gun rags, always claiming that his latest AR is the "best ever"? If so, why would a company like FN release the price to that guy...

Spooky130
11-06-08, 08:51
Ha! They can keep it. I would pay $2,200 for a SCAR-H, but that's F-ing outrageous for a 556 rifle.

...isn't Fortier that douche bag that writes for gun rags, always claiming that his latest AR is the "best ever"? If so, why would a company like FN release the price to that guy...

Because he writes in gun rags... Doesn't mean he writes well. I'm not a huge fan but at least he is getting some press for the black rifles out there.

And I agree - I would get a SCAR-H for $2200 +/-$100 and that is too much for a 5.56 gun unless I'm getting a couple barrels, a good supply of mags, maybe a suppressor...

Spooky

carbinero
11-06-08, 10:30
Dynamic Armament taking pre-orders for SCAR-H (AKA 17s) $2,200.00

http://dynamicarmament.com/items/fn-herstal/fn-scar-heavy-308-rifle-detail.htm

Ed L.
11-06-08, 10:57
Also keep in mind the unfortunate election results. Since there is no telling what legislation is coming and how soon it is coming, the SCAR in limited new release would be racing new legislation that would ban its civilian sales. So if the MSRP is $2,696.56, I would expect the first ones on the shelves to be selling for at least $3000 if not more, maybe even as much as $3500.

The way I see this is that FNHUSA is pricing it as a niche item rather than a competitively priced carbine. I understand them making that decision from the business standpoint because they are not going to be producing it in mass numbers and have no idea how long it will be civilian legal.

Dave L.
11-06-08, 14:30
The way I see this is that FNHUSA is pricing it as a niche item rather than a competitively priced carbine. I understand them making that decision from the business standpoint because they are not going to be producing it in mass numbers and have no idea how long it will be civilian legal.

Well, I'm a shooter, not a collector. FN has a choice, sell many at a cheaper price, or sell a few at a high price.
I have plenty of extra cash to spend on guns, but that doesn't mean I'll waste it on the latest and greatest.
A high price due to the election will equal greed; a greedy company can kiss my ass.
The same goes for any company what wants to gouge AR/Mag/Parts prices...don't give me your 2nd Amendment rhetoric and then raise your prices 20-40%.

Cameron
11-06-08, 15:25
If MSRP on an FN FS2000 is still $2,800 I wouldn't be surprised if the SCAR is close to $3,000

GlockWRX
11-06-08, 15:30
If MSRP on an FN FS2000 is still $2,800 I wouldn't be surprised if the SCAR is close to $3,000


Is MSRP on the FS2000 $2800? From what I've seen, those go for $2100-2400. If the SCAR is supposed to retail for around the same as the FS2000 I would expect a street price around $2100. Assuming there isn't a ton of dealer mark up.

Iraqgunz
11-06-08, 16:33
They can keep their SCAR's. I agree that I would probably pay 2200.00 or so for a SCAR-H, but not for a 5.56.

"Change....one magazine at a time."

Ed L.
11-06-08, 17:01
Well, I'm a shooter, not a collector. FN has a choice, sell many at a cheaper price, or sell a few at a high price.

FN has limited production capabilites for the civilian SCAR when compared to say civilian AR makers. So they really don't have the choice of producing civilian SCARs in near the same numbers as say Bushmaster manufactures ARs. Plus there is R&D costs and production line setup costs, so the gun was going to be far more expensive than even a top manufacturers AR. Since there will be a limited supply and it is perceived as a desirable product by many, demand will be high, hence the higher price.

Then factor the political situation with the most antigun president in history who has vowed to outlaw such guns. So starting a new production line in this political environment represents a huge financial risk. Another factor in the pricing. It is a for profit company, not a socialized public gun provider.

I wish the gun was available for $1000 less, but my wishes don't control reality.

Ed L.
11-06-08, 17:15
If MSRP on an FN FS2000 is still $2,800 I wouldn't be surprised if the SCAR is close to $3,000

I don't think the FS2000 MSRP is $2800. I saw some in the gunstore yesterday that were around $2300. The FS2000 has had one MSRP increase since it was first released.

The FS2000 is a case in point in that when it first came out you saw them selling in places for absurd prices (like $2200-$2500 when I believe the MSRP was like $1900-$2000). After a while the demand subsided and all of the people who had to have one had one, so the guns price dropped to MSRP and below. This took at least 4-6 months. I don't know if the SCAR will be available in the same numbers as the FS2000. But now you have the spector of legislation hanging over the gun, so I would not expect the price to behave the same as the FS2000s did.

Stephen_H
11-07-08, 09:31
I'm working on an a SCAR article for Tactical Weapons and my FN contact has informed me that MSRP for the SCAR16S is $2246.73. Take it for what it's worth.

Stephen

kal
11-10-08, 20:14
This is crazy. More than $1,500 for either L or H is insane. The manufacturing process of these rifles couldn't possibly be any more complicated and/or expensive than similarly built weapons domestically, which are rarely exceeding even $2,000.

Is FN the new HK?

It is most fortunate that our domestic manufacturers can produce a similar rifle for less than half of the SCAR's cost. Logic defeats desire.

Jay Cunningham
11-10-08, 22:50
This is crazy. More than $1,500 for either L or H is insane. The manufacturing process of these rifles couldn't possibly be any more complicated and/or expensive than similarly built weapons domestically, which are rarely exceeding even $2,000.

And how would you know this, kal?

Let's please keep the speculation to a minimum.

kal
11-11-08, 00:29
And how would you know this, kal?

FN is a big company. Big businesses like FN tend to have an easier time manufacturing products at lower costs than smaller companies.

Now how can a company like, for example Robinson Armament, create a totally new and proprietary rifle (XCR) using very similar manufacturing methods as shared with the SCAR and still be less than $1,500?

Both the XCR and SCAR use extruded receivers, you got your barrel, small parts like the trigger group, pins, then you have your internal components, furniture, and lowers. BTW the XCR lower is aluminum forged and milled, the SCAR is polymer. Please do NOT tell me the price for a SCAR lower is higher than a XCR lower.

Now we can compare the SCAR to many other rifles that are CLEARLY more expensive to make than the SCAR yet do not share a similar price tag. But based on how the SCAR is built in comparison to a similar rifle built almost or completely the same way, with the supposed SCAR MSRP being $2,700 and similar rifles being priced at $1,200-$1,600, I speculate that there is no way the SCAR L or H cost more than $1,000 straight out of the factory.

Cameron
11-11-08, 00:46
This is a funny idea that a totally new rifle, next gen with piston gas system, 50K barrel life, completely adjustable stock, integral rail, etc etc and people don't want to pay more than a current AR!??!?!

I Noveske Recce has an MSRP close to $2000 but people think an FN SCAR should be $1500

While I think they should sell me a L and H for $100 each I think people are being silly on the price.

Army Chief
11-11-08, 04:44
Kal is likely right in much of what he says, though I think we've wandered a bit too far afield here. It does little good as a practical matter to dwell on price issues when the real issue is one of availability. Once (/if) these rifles hit dealer shelves in quantity, the MSRP should rapidly become a meaningless figure, and it wouldn't be at all surprising to see them selling for $300-400 less than suggested retail.

Of course, if we find ourselves in a bunker mentality when that finally happens, and/or are under siege politically, then I suppose anything can happen. As an economy of scale issue, there is a certain logic to fewer potential owners paying higher prices if they see that the window of opportunity for ownership is going to be a short one.

FN's primary customer base is not private, so their concern for our market is likely tempered a bit by their belief that we will pay more for best quality (i.e. the same weapon our SOCOM boys are using). Whether that is true or not, this entire price discussion would probably be better suited to the Masada/ACR than to the SCAR, as the former was destined for private hands since the very beginning of the project.

Chief

RyanS
11-11-08, 09:01
FN's primary customer base is not private, so their concern for our market is likely tempered a bit by their belief that we will pay more for best quality (i.e. the same weapon our SOCOM boys are using). Whether that is true or not, this entire price discussion would probably be better suited to the Masada/ACR than to the SCAR, as the former was destined for private hands since the very beginning of the project.

Chief


Not anymore. The drama starts on page 14. Magpul responds in the middle of 15. Bushmaster's pushed any possible release date to the end of 2009 as they want to get the ACR ready for some new trials.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=28&t=161050&page=15

Greg Bell
11-11-08, 10:51
I don't really understand the "I could get another gun cheaper" concerns. Obviously you could get a fine rifle MUCH cheaper than this. You cold get a Colt 6920 for $1400 or a LMT for a few bucks cheaper. You could even put together a nice kit gun with "chart approved" parts for even cheaper. You could also get a Romanian AK for even cheaper and still have a fine semi auto defense rifle. An SKS would also be pretty serviceable.

I think the people who buy these SCARs are going to be people who already have a lot of other nice guns. I will probably pick one up myself.

VA_Dinger
11-11-08, 10:56
This is a funny idea that a totally new rifle, next gen with piston gas system, 50K barrel life, completely adjustable stock, integral rail, etc etc and people don't want to pay more than a current AR!??!?!

I Noveske Recce has an MSRP close to $2000 but people think an FN SCAR should be $1500

While I think they should sell me a L and H for $100 each I think people are being silly on the price.

You hit the nail right on the head and I could not agree more.

kal
11-11-08, 14:44
Not anymore. The drama starts on page 14. Magpul responds in the middle of 15. Bushmaster's pushed any possible release date to the end of 2009 as they want to get the ACR ready for some new trials.

That SUCKS. I heard some people were selling some firearms to fund the ACR......idiots.

The ACR, if priced similarly to the XCR and SIG556, would have been a hardcore competitor against the SCAR this December.

recon
11-11-08, 15:32
I guess with this news the XCR,SIG 556,AR15's will have to be considered now.

RyanS
11-11-08, 15:57
I guess with this news the XCR,SIG 556,AR15's will have to be considered now.

And the AUG. http://www.steyrarms.com/

.308holes
11-11-08, 17:08
I thought that "the guys" here were smarter than putting any value on some of the stuff posted on AR15.

When you buy an FN product, you are buying something that was built to mil-spec or very strict requirements, all but the F2000/FS2000 that was the brainchild of FN engineers, NOT to a program requirements.
A3G's were built to FBI requirements, tested and marketed to civilians that way, built, bedded and tested and sold under the tiltle of the "Rifle approved by the FBI". A shooter with a good understanding for the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship will get nearly the same groups shooting an A1, A2, A4, of the A3G. But the A3G sells for noticeably more, Because the FBI uses on like it.
The civilian SCAR will be built (for the most part) to the same MILSPEC standards SOCOM's rifles will be built on....THAT is why they will cost $2000+, and they WILL sell.
Nobody really complains anymore about the PS90 being $1500, but they did when the market prices were released, and they are still selling.

They cry about the US not building good guns here.....go to Columbia SC, take a tour, tell me that FN doesn't make good guns "HERE". The SCAR's will be made on those same production lines.

Jay Cunningham
11-11-08, 17:16
I thought that "the guys" here were smarter than putting any value on some of the stuff posted on AR15.

When you buy an FN product, you are buying something that was built to mil-spec or very strict requirements, all but the F2000/FS2000 that was the brainchild of FN engineers, NOT to a program requirements.
A3G's were built to FBI requirements, tested and marketed to civilians that way, built, bedded and tested and sold under the tiltle of the "Rifle approved by the FBI". A shooter with a good understanding for the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship will get nearly the same groups shooting an A1, A2, A4, of the A3G. But the A3G sells for noticeably more, Because the FBI uses on like it.
The civilian SCAR will be built (for the most part) to the same MILSPEC standards SOCOM's rifles will be built on....THAT is why they will cost $2000+, and they WILL sell.
Nobody really complains anymore about the PS90 being $1500, but they did when the market prices were released, and they are still selling.

They cry about the US not building good guns here.....go to Columbia SC, take a tour, tell me that FN doesn't make good guns "HERE". The SCAR's will be made on those same production lines.


Please all members read the above carefully and digest it.

scottryan
11-11-08, 17:17
This is a funny idea that a totally new rifle, next gen with piston gas system, 50K barrel life, completely adjustable stock, integral rail, etc etc and people don't want to pay more than a current AR!??!?!

I Noveske Recce has an MSRP close to $2000 but people think an FN SCAR should be $1500

While I think they should sell me a L and H for $100 each I think people are being silly on the price.


They can't understand this on TOS.

variablebinary
11-11-08, 18:34
FN is a big company. Big businesses like FN tend to have an easier time manufacturing products at lower costs than smaller companies.

Now how can a company like, for example Robinson Armament, create a totally new and proprietary rifle (XCR) using very similar manufacturing methods as shared with the SCAR and still be less than $1,500?

Both the XCR and SCAR use extruded receivers, you got your barrel, small parts like the trigger group, pins, then you have your internal components, furniture, and lowers. BTW the XCR lower is aluminum forged and milled, the SCAR is polymer. Please do NOT tell me the price for a SCAR lower is higher than a XCR lower.

Now we can compare the SCAR to many other rifles that are CLEARLY more expensive to make than the SCAR yet do not share a similar price tag. But based on how the SCAR is built in comparison to a similar rifle built almost or completely the same way, with the supposed SCAR MSRP being $2,700 and similar rifles being priced at $1,200-$1,600, I speculate that there is no way the SCAR L or H cost more than $1,000 straight out of the factory.

The XCR has approx. 1/3 less parts than the SCAR, so that simplicity translates to a cheaper gun. For example the SCAR side and bottom rails are bolted to the upper and the barrel. The XCR rail is machined from a single piece of metal, a la LMT MRP.

Also, the XCR isnt loaded up with plastic, which some claim is a cost and weight savings measure (Not true since the ACR and SCAR are both just as heavy as the XCR, if not heavier, and clearly more expensive.)


If the SCAR drops for $2200, I will own it. I think it will be an outstanding product. I've wanted a SCAR and XCR together since SCAR trials were finished.

I have zero interest in the ACR

RyanS
11-11-08, 18:57
I personally would love to own a SCAR and I'm not complaining about the price, I just won't be able to afford one, just like the Toyota 4Runner that I'd like to own. It is what it is.

Savior 6
11-13-08, 21:07
Dynamic Armament taking pre-orders for SCAR-H (AKA 17s) $2,200.00

http://dynamicarmament.com/items/fn-herstal/fn-scar-heavy-308-rifle-detail.htm

Now that's Awesome! But first, does pre-order price mean a "lock-in" price?

Savior 6
11-13-08, 21:17
variablebinary, Isn't Robinson supposed to come out with a 7.62 Nato version? M series or something like that?

Don't like the Masada? It and the XCR were the only "small" competitors. Just curious as to you reasoning.

SuicideHz
11-13-08, 21:37
That $2200 has to be a best guess (albeit old guess) at the msrp and will more than likely be required to be paid up front. I'll be willing to bet they are still taking the $2200 with the understanding that any increase in cost will be forwarded directly to the purchaser.

I would love to have a SCAR but with my measly collection and huge want list, there are a few firearms on my list that I could buy all at the same time as opposed to the $2700 5.56mm rifle.

I guess I should be glad my want list is much bigger than my savings account. This will put the purchase of a SCAR or ACR ways away, hopefully to some point in time where the prices will drop after initial release.

variablebinary
11-14-08, 12:12
variablebinary, Isn't Robinson supposed to come out with a 7.62 Nato version? M series or something like that?

Don't like the Masada? It and the XCR were the only "small" competitors. Just curious as to you reasoning.

Yes there is supposed to be an XCR-M. From what Alex told me about it, the M model will have 2" of additional rail, and the lower will be similar to the XCR-L but take SR25 pattern mags. It will feature a new stock, and the XCR match trigger as well. I dont think we will see it till summer 2009 though

As for the ACR, at this stage I just dont see the appeal of the standard model. I can possibly be swayed depending upon the final configuration Bushmaster settles on, but as of right now, as a product, I dont find exciting or especially interesting. I'd rather save my cash and see if HK416 or SIG 551 drops

I put a $2k deposit down on the SCAR and if all goes well, I should have it in 5 weeks or so

Cameron
11-14-08, 12:20
I put a $2k deposit down on the SCAR and if all goes well, I should have it in 5 weeks or so

Really? Who gave you the time frame for delivery?

I talked to an FN rep recently and he still was not able to give any confirmed time frame that any SCAR-Ls would be available for civilian purchase.

Cameron

ITSTOCK
11-14-08, 17:30
Really? Who gave you the time frame for delivery?

I talked to an FN rep recently and he still was not able to give any confirmed time frame that any SCAR-Ls would be available for civilian purchase.

Cameron

The information is directly from the distributor. I was told late December, early January, leaning more towards January for my SCAR.

Cameron
11-14-08, 17:39
The information is directly from the distributor. I was told late December, early January, leaning more towards January for my SCAR.

Who is the distributor?

ITSTOCK
11-14-08, 17:42
Who is the distributor?

Mine was RSR, and I'm pretty certain his was also.

SuicideHz
11-14-08, 18:54
I read a post on TOS where it was confirmed that FN wanted to release a number of them early- December 15th rings a bell...

Savior 6
11-14-08, 20:44
Guess I need to put some money together.

variablebinary, I would also like to see the Sig 551 come about. I just want it to use Sig mags. Looking forward to the ACR, but have to admit that I am less interested since it left Magpul as the Masada. Well if all else fails, you already have an awesome platform in the XCR. Kudos on that pick. BTW do you have alink for that SCAR deposit?

JG1911
11-15-08, 17:19
$2200 isn't actually a terrible price. I'm on the list @ RSR and their price is $2129. No ETA from our rep. Still think it is overpriced.

Wasn't the FS2000 like $2200 at first and then came down to $1900?

kal
11-15-08, 19:02
I would also like to see the Sig 551 come about.

I am so happy, that I lost my ability to be emotionally attached to firearms a long time ago. That rifle is WAY over priced. And $80 a mag is not helping.

Funny, for the price of 10 of these sig551 plastic, oops, I mean the more fancier term, "polycarbonate" mags, you can buy a $800 rifle.:confused:

SuicideHz
11-15-08, 19:26
Wait, which Sig mags are $80? The original ones for the old 551s or for the newer version of the 556? I can almost understand the price of them- probably rare but yeah, I wouldn't want to have to buy them considering yes, you can buy quite a bit of other necessities for that price!

Actually I wish the mags for my newest firearm were that cheap! I just bought the P7M13 and new mags are 2 for $191 the cheapest I've found! And if you look at the price/capacity, the Sig mags are a deal!

kal
11-15-08, 19:33
http://www.sig551.com/index.php/accessories

$82 delivered! Or 10 for $680!!!!!:D:D:D

parker7777
11-16-08, 11:02
If you were to sbr a scar and cut the barrel to around 10"; would you then have to adjust the size of the gas port; or is the piston system able to handle a change such as this?

ITSTOCK
11-16-08, 11:44
If you were to sbr a scar and cut the barrel to around 10"; would you then have to adjust the size of the gas port; or is the piston system able to handle a change such as this?

I don't think we will have a definite answer until they (the semi auto CIVILIAN model, aka 16S) are in our hands. However, the gun was designed to be a quick change barrel system between 10", 14", and 18", so for that reason alone, I doubt that they would fail to incorporate a functioning platform with different barrel lengths.

variablebinary
11-17-08, 04:27
If you were to sbr a scar and cut the barrel to around 10"; would you then have to adjust the size of the gas port; or is the piston system able to handle a change such as this?

That's a good question. As of right now I am going to guess its very possible the gas port might need to be opened on a cut barrel, but should be fine with a factory SBR barrel

Some XCR owners cut their barrels and had some issues early on. Factory SBR barrels are fine however.

Stephen_H
11-17-08, 06:27
If you were to sbr a scar and cut the barrel to around 10"; would you then have to adjust the size of the gas port; or is the piston system able to handle a change such as this?

I talked to one of the engineers about this and he said that as long as it is in a semi-auto it would "probably" be fine with the standard gas port. The SCAR uses a short stroke, tappet gas system and it needs very little gas to pressurize the system. Of course, this is all theory until they release a few for sale.

Stephen

parker7777
11-17-08, 09:10
Thank you for the info on the shorter barrel / gas port question.

Razorhunter
11-22-08, 09:30
Those who know how much it cost to build a rifle on cnc equiptment, know exactly how overpriced these rifles are. I mean, you guys would really be sick if you knew.
I'm not trying to single out FN either.
Anyone seen the cost of a STRIPPED N6 AR10 lower these days?
I don't mean to pick on anyone, with ill intent, but it's no secret, and these are the facts, and the beauty of it, is we can come discuss this matter in a mature manner, without tempers flaring.

On another note, I cannot believe there is actually a dealer out there who is taking pre-orders for the SCAR H?????
I thought that the ONE bit of info we DID KNOW for sure, was that the SCAR L was going to be the FIRST to come out, and the SCAR H was a long ways off for sure????
WTF happened??? Hey, I got no complaints about which will come first, just wondering????

Heck, I sure wish the SCAR L would MSRP for a better price though. That MSRP of $2600-ish is simply terrifying. Granted, it's all hearsay now, and I certainly hope there is some chance (albeit probably little) of it coming down to where the average Joe has a better chance of affording one. I'd be willing to sell an AR to help fund it, but I can't give up multiple AR's for one...

Thanks to all who have posted info for us in this thread!

Let's all cross our fingers that the SCAR L will be reasonably priced...

ITSTOCK
11-22-08, 10:43
Heck, I sure wish the SCAR L would MSRP for a better price though. That MSRP of $2600-ish is simply terrifying. Granted, it's all hearsay now, and I certainly hope there is some chance (albeit probably little) of it coming down to where the average Joe has a better chance of affording one. I'd be willing to sell an AR to help fund it, but I can't give up multiple AR's for one...

Thanks to all who have posted info for us in this thread!

Let's all cross our fingers that the SCAR L will be reasonably priced...

I just want to clear up that the MSRP of $26xx is NOT hearsay, it's FACT from FN. The distributor pricing was posted a couple posts before yours also if you want to see the dealer cost.

As to the price vs cost of machining/etc, it's a free market. When you have similarly compared AR15's coming in at the same price, FN would be foolish to not make the SCAR-L at least close to the same MSRP. We are all responsible for the price of the SCAR.

Razorhunter
11-22-08, 11:46
Who's STOCK, 5.56 AR comes in around $2600, out of the box????

Razorhunter
11-22-08, 11:47
MSRP of $26xx is NOT hearsay, it's FACT from FN. When you have similarly compared AR15's coming in at the same price, FN would be foolish to not make the SCAR-L at least close to the same MSRP. .


Who's stock, out of the box 5.56 AR comes in around $2600?????

ITSTOCK
11-22-08, 11:57
Who's STOCK, 5.56 AR comes in around $2600, out of the box????

http://www.pof-usa.com/p415/P-415-16-P9SX-CF-223-CARBINE.htm

Add in the rear sight and you are at nearly $2100 msrp.

http://www.coldwarshooters.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=673

Add in rear sight and you are at nearly $2400, below msrp.

http://www.zmweapons.com/lr_rifles.htm

Right around $2200 msrp.

http://www.lewismachine.net/product.php?p=188&cid=12&session=a32bd306e332c8bde50b1ad3bb3d8715

$2000 msrp.


And for fun...

Noveske N4 w/adjustable stock, withOUT irons
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116684130
$3000 starting bid

Another Noveske without adjustable stock, but with stights
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116438823
$2550 starting bid


Then consider other platforms like the Sig 556 Classic (this example because it has the folding, adjustable stock) with an MSRP of $2000 and the Robinson Armament XCR with an MSRP with similar options at right around $2000.

Is it priced slightly higher? Of course, but it does have the research and development to back up the slightly higher price than franken platforms.

Iraqgunz
11-22-08, 13:10
You do understand the difference between reality and MSRP? Also, using Gunbroker for a price comparison is disingenuous at best. Especially in this current market.


http://www.pof-usa.com/p415/P-415-16-P9SX-CF-223-CARBINE.htm

Add in the rear sight and you are at nearly $2100 msrp.

http://www.coldwarshooters.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=673

Add in rear sight and you are at nearly $2400, below msrp.

http://www.zmweapons.com/lr_rifles.htm

Right around $2200 msrp.

http://www.lewismachine.net/product.php?p=188&cid=12&session=a32bd306e332c8bde50b1ad3bb3d8715

$2000 msrp.


And for fun...

Noveske N4 w/adjustable stock, withOUT irons
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116684130
$3000 starting bid

Another Noveske without adjustable stock, but with stights
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116438823
$2550 starting bid


Then consider other platforms like the Sig 556 Classic (this example because it has the folding, adjustable stock) with an MSRP of $2000 and the Robinson Armament XCR with an MSRP with similar options at right around $2000.

Is it priced slightly higher? Of course, but it does have the research and development to back up the slightly higher price than franken platforms.

ITSTOCK
11-22-08, 13:21
You do understand the difference between reality and MSRP? Also, using Gunbroker for a price comparison is disingenuous at best. Especially in this current market.

You do understand that I was comparing the MSRP of the $26xx SCAR to the MSRP of the AR15's? My price for the SCAR is certainly NOT the MSRP (though unfortunately, it's not "too" far off at $2700 OTD with PA .06% sales tax and $10 transfer fee, my dealer made a nice penny off me). I think VB stated that he paid $2400 OTD for his SCAR (whenever everyone gets them).

As to the gunbroker...did you read what it says BEFORE I posted the links? "AND FOR FUN"

:confused:

Cameron
11-22-08, 13:47
I can certainly see paying $500-600 more for a next gen, piston driven, removable barrel, SOCOM accepted rifle from one of the top firearms manufacturers in the world. Remember you are not paying for the rifle to be cut from a piece of metal, you are paying for the years of R&D, prototypes, trials, the production facility capital investment, etc. plus an amount for profit.

This BS that an FN SCAR is over priced at $2700 is total crap, look at the price of a similar DSA FAL $2,300 (http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-PARATactical-Carbine-308-Cal/productinfo/SA58TACP/), Noveske Complete Rifle $2,100, Noveske Upper $1,400 (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=48) Noveske N6 7.62NATO Rifle $3,100 (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=55) Daniel Defense/LaRue complete upper $1,300 (http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=94), FN FS200 $2,800 and you will see that the MSRPs are in line.

When the initial release BS dies down (and if no ban is forthcoming, a ban would throw all the pricing conventions out the window, that's why idiots are paying $50 for a P-Mag) you would probably expect to pay something less than FN's MSRP for them from a dealer, just like the FS2000, FN PBR, PS90, and just about every other firearm out there. I paid $700 for a new Bushmaster M4 Type that has an MSRP of $1,300 (http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA3F14M4IZ.asp), $1,800 for a new $2,200 MSRP DSA, $780, for a new $1,400 MSRP FN PBR XP all brand new all from dealers. Who has ever actually paid MSRP for a rifle?

Personally, of course, I would wish that I could buy a Light and Heavy for $5 out the door, but get a clue about what is realistic guys.

Cameron

kal
11-22-08, 22:27
OK here we go, I just want to know, that if this rifle was built to be the best it can be for special forces.......

.....Why wasn't the SCAR built with an AK/SIG style operating system providing the most reliable system and least amount of parts as possible? Long stroke piston, carrier, 2 or 3 lug bolt, fixed ejector, you eliminate the cam pin, plunger ejector and spring, and cotter pin( at least for the requirement of removing it as part of the procedure to removing the bolt)

ITSTOCK
11-23-08, 10:09
OK here we go, I just want to know, that if this rifle was built to be the best it can be for special forces.......

.....Why wasn't the SCAR built with an AK/SIG style operating system providing the most reliable system and least amount of parts as possible? Long stroke piston, carrier, 2 or 3 lug bolt, fixed ejector, you eliminate the cam pin, plunger ejector and spring, and cotter pin( at least for the requirement of removing it as part of the procedure to removing the bolt)

I just sent FN an email, so we'll see if it gets bounced around and replied to with an answer . I'm sure that their 're engineers could give us an answer of why they found that after years of R&D and hundreds of millions of dollars starting with a fresh platform that they decided to go this route.

I'll keep my faith an FN that they know what they are doing, or at least have a good idea. :p

olds442tyguy
11-23-08, 15:21
So for SOCOM they claimed it was cheaper and easier to make than an M4, and would surely cost less, but for civilians it costs twice as much?

Edited to remove BARFCOM speculation.


I'm officially sticking with AR's. There may be "better", but I'm so sick of the price gouging, bullshitting, and empty promises that I'm giving up on the modular rifle market. Maybe I'll try an XCR. While they're the least respected of the bunch, they're the only damn ones who have kept their word. "Two more weeks" is a hell of a lot better than "oh, now it's twice as much", or "contrary to what we said, you will likely never own one now".


:mad:

variablebinary
11-23-08, 16:15
OK here we go, I just want to know, that if this rifle was built to be the best it can be for special forces.......

.....Why wasn't the SCAR built with an AK/SIG style operating system providing the most reliable system and least amount of parts as possible? Long stroke piston, carrier, 2 or 3 lug bolt, fixed ejector, you eliminate the cam pin, plunger ejector and spring, and cotter pin( at least for the requirement of removing it as part of the procedure to removing the bolt)

Because then it wouldnt be a SCAR it would be an XCR and Alex would have sued FN.

kal
11-23-08, 16:40
Because then it wouldnt be a SCAR it would be an XCR and Alex would have sued FN.

Nah, I doubt that's possible. Even if FN did build a long stroke AK action SCAR rifle it would most likely be built to different specs and thus wouldn't be interchangeable with the XCR. Now how the heck is that patent infringement? Robinson Armament couldn't sue anybody if the defendant pulled off such a stunt.

variablebinary
11-23-08, 16:49
Nah, I doubt that's possible. Even if FN did build a long stroke AK action SCAR rifle it would most likely be built to different specs and thus wouldn't be interchangeable with the XCR. Now how the heck is that patent infringement? Robinson Armament couldn't sue anybody if the defendant pulled off such a stunt.

Mostly I was being sarcastic, but for sure there would be scary similarities between the XCR and SCAR if FN had gone your proposed route

.308holes
11-24-08, 12:26
OK here we go, I just want to know, that if this rifle was built to be the best it can be for special forces.......

.....Why wasn't the SCAR built with an AK/SIG style operating system providing the most reliable system and least amount of parts as possible? Long stroke piston, carrier, 2 or 3 lug bolt, fixed ejector, you eliminate the cam pin, plunger ejector and spring, and cotter pin( at least for the requirement of removing it as part of the procedure to removing the bolt)

The SCAR was built off of a reqirement document authored by the end user, It started with a blank drawing board. SOCOM end users stated what they wanted, that was the requirements that the SCAR was built from, That includes everything right down to the throw and size of the selector switch.
The SCAR has endured harsh enviroment tests that MANY systems have not been able to complete, no less, pass. (I am not saying that either of the systems you are speaking of would of wouldn't they weren't selected.) This long road it has been on is due to the change proposals that SOCOM guys have wanted to revise from the first Gen guns. They want it to be EXACTLY what they want when they take delivery of the tens of thousands of guns they ordered. SOCOM is a big customer, and FN is trying to please EVERYONE of it's operators within that group.

If every guy on this board was to make a wish list of their "perfect gun" that could be made to their own specs, you may get a handful that would agree on a few, but not all would agree on ONE way to build it, think of it that way.

SinnFéinM1911
11-24-08, 12:37
I thought that "the guys" here were smarter than putting any value on some of the stuff posted on AR15.

When you buy an FN product, you are buying something that was built to mil-spec or very strict requirements, all but the F2000/FS2000 that was the brainchild of FN engineers, NOT to a program requirements.
A3G's were built to FBI requirements, tested and marketed to civilians that way, built, bedded and tested and sold under the tiltle of the "Rifle approved by the FBI". A shooter with a good understanding for the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship will get nearly the same groups shooting an A1, A2, A4, of the A3G. But the A3G sells for noticeably more, Because the FBI uses on like it.
The civilian SCAR will be built (for the most part) to the same MILSPEC standards SOCOM's rifles will be built on....THAT is why they will cost $2000+, and they WILL sell.
Nobody really complains anymore about the PS90 being $1500, but they did when the market prices were released, and they are still selling.

They cry about the US not building good guns here.....go to Columbia SC, take a tour, tell me that FN doesn't make good guns "HERE". The SCAR's will be made on those same production lines.


Touché

.308holes
11-24-08, 12:42
I just sent FN an email, so we'll see if it gets bounced around and replied to with an answer . I'm sure that their 're engineers could give us an answer of why they found that after years of R&D and hundreds of millions of dollars starting with a fresh platform that they decided to go this route.

I'll keep my faith an FN that they know what they are doing, or at least have a good idea. :p

Be cautious of the emails you receive from FNMLLC, or FNH USA proper in McLean. There are a LIMITED number of employees that are privvy to the status of the SCAR program, some may like to THINK they know....but they don't. Take it with a grain of salt.
The program still belongs to SOCOM and there is alot of information that can't be released, so, just be mindful, and patient.

.308holes
11-24-08, 12:44
Touché

Your not french bro.....she was talking about something else.....!

SinnFéinM1911
11-24-08, 12:45
So for SOCOM they claimed it was cheaper and easier to make than an M4, and would surely cost less, but for civilians it costs twice as much?





:mad:

You have VERY VERY Bad information.

This requirement had NOTHING to due with being cheaper and easier to make.

.308holes
11-24-08, 12:47
You have VERY VERY Bad information.

This requirement had NOTHING to due with being cheaper and easier to make.

What is your source of your barrel change issue?


I try brother....you can lead a horse to water.....

olds442tyguy
11-25-08, 13:02
You have VERY VERY Bad information.

If that's the case, I apologize.




This requirement had NOTHING to due with being cheaper and easier to make.

And just where exactly did I say that? In fact, it has been you guys (FN) who have claimed this all along. "Cost competitive" is not twice as much, or at least in my opinion. Hell, in searching for exact quotes I read a post by an FN employee practically laughing at a $2,000 price tag rumor. :confused:

SinnFéinM1911
11-25-08, 13:42
So for SOCOM they claimed it was cheaper and easier to make than an M4, and would surely cost less, but for civilians it costs twice as much?

Oh, and I heard FN dropped the quick change barrels due to structural integrity issues.






Says cheaper and easier to make in your own words.... That had zero to do with why SOCOM wrote that requirement.

I’m not going to apologize to you because you made a unfounded statement. I have the facts here, I don’t work this program for a hobby, I work it for a living because it’s what I'm good at.


I don’t want to sound rude, but people are so easy to jump on the "I hate" bandwagon and spread non-sense. Part of being in this forum and why knowledgeable people come here is to get away from the crap that is on TOS's.

My message was in not insulting to you, in fact my sarcasm was intended to your alleged source.

Jay Cunningham
11-25-08, 14:20
I would like to publicly thank the Industry Professionals who have contributed to this thread for their help with rumor control.

Very much appreciated!

olds442tyguy
11-25-08, 14:26
Says cheaper and easier to make in your own words.... That had zero to do with why SOCOM wrote that requirement.

I’m not going to apologize to you because you made a unfounded statement. I have the facts here, I don’t work this program for a hobby, I work it for a living because it’s what I'm good at.


I don’t want to sound rude, but people are so easy to jump on the "I hate" bandwagon and spread non-sense. Part of being in this forum and why knowledgeable people come here is to get away from the crap that is on TOS's.

My message was in not insulting to you, in fact my sarcasm was intended to your alleged source.
When I said "they", I meant FN, and not SOCOM. I should have put a comma after SOCOM I guess.

Like I said in response to your PM, as soon as I find the industry "professional" who said it on TOS, I will let you know. I will no longer mention it seeing as you clarified it wasn't true. My apologies for mentioning second hand information that is false.

.308holes
11-25-08, 17:44
When I said "they", I meant FN, and not SOCOM. I should have put a comma after SOCOM I guess.

This is where rumors begin to run out of control, someone may be perceived as "in the know" or puts themselves off in such a manner, but most of that needs to be confirmed somewhat easily, not saying you specifically OLDS, but someone sold you bad scoop.

"They" as used describing FN, should be the ones who can release the information surrounding the issues, OR the guys who have ACTUALLY had the chance to shoot it and form an OBJECTIVE opinion to be shared. There are plenty of guys that are anti-SCAR because of some predisposed bias, or bandwagon that will talk about how it sucks because of this, the FDE is too light, the stock "LOOKS' bulky or akward, or that, Or the "It doesn't shoot like an M4, and I love my M4, so it sucks"
SOCOM wanted a new gun, built from the ground up, if they wanted a modified M4, the requirement docs would have been alot shorter, and it wouldn't take several years to get into fielding.

....that being said....anybody with a some financial backing and machining contacts or knowledge can just sit down and design a gun a build it,( FN has done it with the F2000), it is a short process, if there is no requirement docs, customer or contract intervention or objective field testing and ECP's. There is not alot of hurdles and challenges to compile good attributes of other rifles, change a few things and start making them.

Be patient, I have said it before, the actual trigger pullers need theirs first, THAT is after the FINAL configuration is set....and it isn't.

olds442tyguy
11-25-08, 20:15
This is where rumors begin to run out of control, someone may be perceived as "in the know" or puts themselves off in such a manner, but most of that needs to be confirmed somewhat easily, not saying you specifically OLDS, but someone sold you bad scoop.

"They" as used describing FN, should be the ones who can release the information surrounding the issues, OR the guys who have ACTUALLY had the chance to shoot it and form an OBJECTIVE opinion to be shared. There are plenty of guys that are anti-SCAR because of some predisposed bias, or bandwagon that will talk about how it sucks because of this, the FDE is too light, the stock "LOOKS' bulky or akward, or that, Or the "It doesn't shoot like an M4, and I love my M4, so it sucks"
SOCOM wanted a new gun, built from the ground up, if they wanted a modified M4, the requirement docs would have been alot shorter, and it wouldn't take several years to get into fielding.

....that being said....anybody with a some financial backing and machining contacts or knowledge can just sit down and design a gun a build it,( FN has done it with the F2000), it is a short process, if there is no requirement docs, customer or contract intervention or objective field testing and ECP's. There is not alot of hurdles and challenges to compile good attributes of other rifles, change a few things and start making them.

Be patient, I have said it before, the actual trigger pullers need theirs first, THAT is after the FINAL configuration is set....and it isn't.
Point taken.

I've never thought the SCAR was a bad M4 replacement. In fact, I've long been excited about the SCAR replacing it. I completely understand and respect SOCOM getting put first. You guys (FN) are the most civlian friendly major military supplier and I've always respected that.

.308holes
11-25-08, 20:39
....if there was just a market for S/A M240's.......

It is understood that there are "bad apples" that purposely try to undermine the going's on with the program, for WHATEVER reason. Unfortunately, there are a huge bunch of guys who are very interested and hungry for knowledge on forums, that just allows bad info to be spread like a wildfire. (and there are only so many firemen who can try to douse the flames here);)

KevinB
11-25-08, 21:50
I'd buy a SA M240...

kal
11-25-08, 22:18
I'd buy a SA M240...

A semi auto m240? Eeeeeeewwwwwww.

The gun wasn't designed to be used by one person. It's too heavy, and at least with the models I've seen, no proper hand gaurd either.

I'd rather want a US ORD. M60E4, or FN MK48........at no more than $3,000. :eek: :D


I freakin' wish. I'd settle for a belt fed upper for an AR lower at around $1,000.

.308holes
11-25-08, 23:04
The gun wasn't designed to be used by one person. It's too heavy, and at least with the models I've seen, no proper hand gaurd either.

Obviously you haven't seen the Titanium model then....:D

Dave L.
11-26-08, 05:50
A semi auto m240? Eeeeeeewwwwwww.

The gun wasn't designed to be used by one person. It's too heavy,





...it's just not an M60 however it is designed to be used by one person. For the record, it's not that heavy.

Iraqgunz
11-28-08, 17:00
I have some not so fond memories of humping the M60 and have seen more than enough Joes over here humping that 240 beast. :D


...it's just not an M60 however it is designed to be used by one person. For the record, it's not that heavy.

kal
12-01-08, 21:08
OK I remember that initially, the SCAR had an ar18 bolt, typical 7 lug design.

Did that change in the newer generations? I was reading a description where it uses a "m249 style" bolt. As far as I know, the m249 uses a 2-lug bolt. So does the newer generation of SCAR rifles use that same 2-lug bolt? Further more, considering an m249 bolt has an ejector slot machined into it, does the new-gen SCAR bolt have a fixed ejector or the same spring loaded ejector?

clynch
12-02-08, 08:29
OK I remember that initially, the SCAR had an ar18 bolt, typical 7 lug design.

Did that change in the newer generations? I was reading a description where it uses a "m249 style" bolt. As far as I know, the m249 uses a 2-lug bolt. So does the newer generation of SCAR rifles use that same 2-lug bolt? Further more, considering an m249 bolt has an ejector slot machined into it, does the new-gen SCAR bolt have a fixed ejector or the same spring loaded ejector?

The SCAR family of weapons has always utilized the Stoner type multi-lug rotating bolt - that it ever used an M249 / FNC / 2-lug type was mis-information from people who had no hands-on experience.

Hope this helps,
Clint

variablebinary
12-02-08, 11:15
The SCAR family of weapons has always utilized the Stoner type multi-lug rotating bolt - that it ever used an M249 / FNC / 2-lug type was mis-information from people who had no hands-on experience.

Hope this helps,
Clint

You know what will really help...Info on the SCAR-L16S dropping in a couple of weeks.

Happening or not happening :confused:

SinnFéinM1911
12-02-08, 11:46
You know what will really help...Info on the SCAR-L16S dropping in a couple of weeks.

Happening or not happening :confused:

I dont want to speak for Clint, and please correct me if you think different.

Clint and I work in Deisgn - Development - Testing - Fiedling - Training ... We dont really work the business side of things. The Best thing to do it call you local dealer and have then ask thier FN distributor.

Voodoochild
12-02-08, 11:52
My limited interaction w/ the SCAR was in my opinion an eye opener. At first I was like man that looks bulky and awkward but once you play with it I was impressed. Good cheek weld and over all good product and design.

KevinB
12-02-08, 12:12
Clint - good to see you around here again.

.308holes
12-03-08, 11:07
I dont want to speak for Clint, and .....Deisgn - Development - Testing - Feidling - Training ... .

Good thing you didn't write the manuals, ... Clint can spell atleast!!

Glad you allow me such opportunities.


...and you have mail (your OTHER account)

Robb Jensen
12-03-08, 11:21
Good thing you didn't write the manuals, ... Clint can spell atleast!!

Glad you allow me such opportunities.


...and you have mail (your OTHER account)

I think Brett is sippin' on Guinness and posting......;)

GunSlinger
12-15-08, 11:53
Mine was RSR, and I'm pretty certain his was also.

I e-mailed RSR with questions on where and when and this was the response

"Scar Rifles are not available yet. Maybe March 2009."

ITSTOCK
12-15-08, 16:49
I e-mailed RSR with questions on where and when and this was the response

"Scar Rifles are not available yet. Maybe March 2009."

I hope not!

nsabjg
12-15-08, 17:52
Scar light will be shipping Dec 16 2008. I got that from FN.

JG1911
12-15-08, 18:49
I called RSR early last week to order a pistol for someone... I also confirmed with the rep that I was on the backorder list, he said they had no clue when the rifles will show up. I'm no no hurry though.

GunSlinger
12-15-08, 22:59
A few of you seem to b dialed in and have your future SCARs lined up. I'm happy for you and hope all goes well
I have the money in hand and would appreciate any and all help from you guys to get my hands on a rifle from the first batch. I'm pretty much getting the run around when I made my calls

Thanks in advance

Dave L.
12-16-08, 00:25
A few of you seem to b dialed in and have your future SCARs lined up. I'm happy for you and hope all goes well
I have the money in hand and would appreciate any and all help from you guys to get my hands on a rifle from the first batch. I'm pretty much getting the run around when I made my calls

Thanks in advance

Dealers are getting the run around...not just you. It will eventually come out. My advice; talk to a local FN dealer and give them your name an possibly put 1/2 down on the spot.
I really doubt there are many people with one realistically lined up.

ITSTOCK
12-16-08, 06:53
Dealers are getting the run around...not just you. It will eventually come out. My advice; talk to a local FN dealer and give them your name an possibly put 1/2 down on the spot.
I really doubt there are many people with one realistically lined up.

Again, the SCAR 16s is an allocated item for dealers. Either they can order through their distributor, or they can't. They will know if they can get you a 16s the second that they call or log in to the distributor and place the order.

parker7777
12-16-08, 07:20
I know that for my dealer to get 3 of them he had to order a certain amount of other fn products from his distributor. He was going over the list deciding what else to get. He told me that the distributor said I may not see the scar until spring. I hope to see it sooner.

Dave L.
12-16-08, 07:40
I know that for my dealer to get 3 of them he had to order a certain amount of other fn products from his distributor. He was going over the list deciding what else to get. He told me that the distributor said I may not see the scar until spring. I hope to see it sooner.

I'm starting to put the SCAR and ACR in the "myth" category...

variablebinary
12-16-08, 07:42
Supposedly the first shipments should be landing this week. Impact Guns here in Utah doesnt know when, they just said any day now. Guess we will have to wait and see. I have my doubts considering Impact had pricing for FS2000 and PS90 months in advance. Nothing on their site about SCAR 16S. It isnt on FN's site either

The Guns and Ammo ad proves there really is a 16S out there, but when and where and for how much are the big questions that arent getting solidly answered.

Fingers crossed for this week...

SinnFéinM1911
12-16-08, 07:58
I'm starting to put the SCAR and ACR in the "myth" category...

The SCAR is no myth my friend, I can assure you of that !!

AMMOTECH
12-16-08, 07:59
The SCAR is no myth my friend, I can assure you of that !!


What he said...:D

.

Dave L.
12-16-08, 08:05
The SCAR is no myth my friend, I can assure you of that !!

I have to keep telling myself that so I don't go crazy...can you blame me :D

Dave L.
12-16-08, 08:07
What he said...:D

.

What did you do with that link:confused: I was about to check it and "poof" gone.

variablebinary
12-16-08, 08:10
What did you do with that link:confused: I was about to check it and "poof" gone.

What link?! What did I miss? Damnit!

AMMOTECH
12-16-08, 08:11
What link?! What did I miss? Damnit!


It's back....:cool:

http://www.fnforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=9461

.

variablebinary
12-16-08, 08:14
It's back....:cool:

http://www.fnforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=9461

.

So how about slipping in some 16S photos while you are at it.

ITSTOCK
12-16-08, 14:04
I'm starting to put the SCAR and ACR in the "myth" category...

:cool:

nsabjg
12-17-08, 13:06
Scar light started shipping on Dec 16 2008 from FN warehouse.

Razorhunter
12-17-08, 13:21
Scar light started shipping on Dec 16 2008 from FN warehouse.


Really? Where did this info come from? The FN dealer I ordered from, said he was sent a letter saying the SCARS would ship last week of DEC, on through Jan 15th.
His distributor told him there was only a very limited run being released, but who knows at this point.
I was quite surprised to see your post saying these have already begun shipping as of yesterday?
Does this mean shipped to "FN distributors", "FN Dealers"???

Anybody know which plant these will ship out of? I heard there was an FN plant in Virginia, but I have only ever known of the SC plant???

SinnFéinM1911
12-17-08, 13:29
Really? Where did this info come from? The FN dealer I ordered from, said he was sent a letter saying the SCARS would ship last week of DEC, on through Jan 15th.
His distributor told him there was only a very limited run being released, but who knows at this point.
I was quite surprised to see your post saying these have already begun shipping as of yesterday?
Does this mean shipped to "FN distributors", "FN Dealers"???

Anybody know which plant these will ship out of? I heard there was an FN plant in Virginia, but I have only ever known of the SC plant???

If he said FN warehouse, it could mean Arnold, which is our logistics / shipping center. I cant awnser that for you, but thats my guess. I do know that some where shipped there earlier this month.

QuietShootr
12-17-08, 18:35
Are the Heavies shipping?

asymmetricalwarfar3
12-17-08, 18:42
Are the Heavies shipping?

I wish!

.308holes
12-17-08, 21:37
Are the Heavies shipping?


Keep holding your breath.

SinnFéinM1911
12-18-08, 17:46
Are the Heavies shipping?

Prb Fall/Winter 09

nsabjg
12-18-08, 20:08
Tommy Thacker at FN said the SCAR will ship on Dec 16 2008.
From the warehouse in Missouri.

Gabe_Bailey
12-18-08, 21:35
This is crazy. More than $1,500 for either L or H is insane. The manufacturing process of these rifles couldn't possibly be any more complicated and/or expensive than similarly built weapons domestically, which are rarely exceeding even $2,000.

Is FN the new HK?

It is most fortunate that our domestic manufacturers can produce a similar rifle for less than half of the SCAR's cost. Logic defeats desire.

Kal - First, I don't want to start a fart storm with you. However, you've touched on one of my favorite topics...logic. I believe I can shed some light on your doubt and hestitation. Have you ever quoted/purchased a military laser or thermal sight, etc.? Most of them are 2-5 times the amount you state above. Funny thing is, they only "help" you hit what your aiming at...the weapon with the operator at the helm is what "performs the business" and yet the market demands it must be cheaper than dirt?

Let's consider a car for a moment; Does a BMW or a Toyota made in the US really cost more than a Ford or Chevy to manufacture? The answer is...probably not. However, quality, performance, reliability, features, etc. must all be taken into account and as a result, the BMW and sometimes Toyota cost more to purchase. The SCAR is not a "Red Ryder carbine action two-hundred shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing that tells time". It is a finely tuned, assault rifle built with the latest technology and materials that has been tested like no other small arm in the history of small arms.

I can go on but I won't; perspective is everything.

Please email me if you would like to discuss further. Thanks.

V/r,
Gabe

ITSTOCK
12-18-08, 22:02
The other simple logic that you didn't cover was that an equally equipped franken gas piston AR (based on a 50?? year old design with newer parts) costs as much as the SCAR. :cool:


Kal - First, I don't want to start a fart storm with you. However, you've touched on one of my favorite topics...logic. I believe I can shed some light on your doubt and hestitation. Have you ever quoted/purchased a military laser or thermal sight, etc.? Most of them are 2-5 times the amount you state above. Funny thing is, they only "help" you hit what your aiming at...the weapon with the operator at the helm is what "performs the business" and yet the market demands it must be cheaper than dirt?

Let's consider a car for a moment; Does a BMW or a Toyota made in the US really cost more than a Ford or Chevy to manufacture? The answer is...probably not. However, quality, performance, reliability, features, etc. must all be taken into account and as a result, the BMW and sometimes Toyota cost more to purchase. The SCAR is not a "Red Ryder carbine action two-hundred shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing that tells time". It is a finely tuned, assault rifle built with the latest technology and materials that has been tested like no other small arm in the history of small arms.

I can go on but I won't; perspective is everything.

Please email me if you would like to discuss further. Thanks.

V/r,
Gabe

Gabe_Bailey
12-18-08, 22:23
The other simple logic that you didn't cover was that an equally equipped franken gas piston AR (based on a 50?? year old design with newer parts) costs as much as the SCAR. :cool:

ITSTOCK - Thanks and you're right. Either you choose direct gas impingement or gas piston...that is what we have with today's technology.

.308holes
12-18-08, 22:33
...that is what we have with today's technology.

We also get perfectly round ice cream know as dippin' dots!

Still ice cream, but easier to scoop, eat and enjoy.

same same.:D

Gabe_Bailey
12-18-08, 22:40
We also get perfectly round ice cream know as dippin' dots!

Still ice cream, but easier to scoop, eat and enjoy.

same same.:D

Don't forget Ben & Jerry's...think how much people pay for it...it's just another ice cream isn't it?

Gotta make 'em realize what they're eating .308. It ain't plain vanilla anymore.

V/r,
Gabe

.308holes
12-18-08, 22:46
CONTROLLABLE .308, so it is Ben and Jerry's .....rolled into Dippin' dots!!!


LOVE IT !!

Gabe_Bailey
12-18-08, 22:48
CONTROLLABLE .308, so it is Ben and Jerry's .....rolled into Dippin' dots!!!


LOVE IT !!

You have to...with your time behind the gun, you know the truth. Ha!

kal
12-18-08, 23:15
Gabe I understand what you're saying.

Personally, I just don't think breaking the $1,500 mark will get me more than what I want a rifle to do. That is to provide reliability, good ergonomics, durability, some degree of modularity, etc. The market already has something for people like me and I'm satisfied. For the price the SCAR asks for, it will not do anything more than what I want a rifle to do that's already available at half the price.

Gabe_Bailey
12-18-08, 23:18
Gabe I understand what you're saying.

Personally, I just don't think breaking the $1,500 mark will get me more than what I want a rifle to do. That is to provide reliability, good ergonomics, durability, some degree of modularity, etc. The market already has something for people like me and I'm satisfied. For the price the SCAR asks for, it will not do anything more than what I want a rifle to do that's already available at half the price.

Kal - Completely understand. Like I said, perspective is everything (as well as your savings accout ;-).

V/r,
Gabe

variablebinary
12-19-08, 07:14
K, all these FN people...Someone better have some answers on if the SCAR is shipping or not.

A simple yes or no will suffice...

Dave L.
12-19-08, 08:28
K, all these FN people...Someone better have some answers on if the SCAR is shipping or not.

A simple yes or no will suffice...

I almost don't want to know...because then I will buy one.
I would like to know how many they plan on releasing; I'm not interested in paying 5K for the first run.

Razorhunter
12-19-08, 14:05
The first run of guns, while expensive as all hell, will not cost $5K. Many of us have prepaid for our SCARS with dealers who have been promised XXX amount of SCARS, based on how many "SCAR Packages" they have sold throughout the year.
The price is/was $2800. I am fairly certain this price is the final price, and will not go up. IF by chance it did amount to more, I know a lot of guys will walk away, cancel their order, and ask for their money back.
I am told that many of the FN dealers who have done long Pre-Order lists, for all sorts of different prices, without FN's direct approval, might not be getting as many SCARS as they have "Pre-Sold"...
I can't wait for them to arrive...

YVK
12-19-08, 14:58
One of local dealers is pre-selling for 2500.

ITSTOCK
12-19-08, 16:28
One of local dealers is pre-selling for 2500.

You should be very skeptical of "pre-selling".

The SCAR 16S is an allocated item.

YVK
12-19-08, 19:57
You should be very skeptical of "pre-selling".


I am. I didn't "pre-buy". I would like to buy one, but only when they are relativley readily available. I only hope it is going to happen.

RogerinTPA
12-19-08, 20:55
After looking in my safe with all the "add ons " (rails, RDS, powered optics, stocks, VFG's, etc..) on 3 AR's (the exception being the AK) they are all hovering around the 3K+ mark. Some guys here well surpass the 3K mark on their toys, so I don't know why all the crying over a well thought out weapon with most of the "add on's" we'd put on it anyway, would be such a sore spot. If the SCAR becomes available, I will be getting one.

QuietShootr
12-19-08, 23:54
Prb Fall/Winter 09


Ah. Just in time for the ban.

Savior 6
12-20-08, 00:14
......so I don't know why all the crying over a well thought out weapon with most of the "add on's" we'd put on it anyway, would be such a sore spot. If the SCAR becomes available, I will be getting one.

Because barring the stock, variablebinary essentially has the same weapon for about $1,100.00 USD less. And it's barrel/caliber change seems to be more on the KISS side.

Sorry variablebinary, didn't mean to drag you into this.
Disclaimer: variablebinary has no affilition with Savior 6 or any of his thoughts. He just happens to have badass weapon that could have easily been our precious SCAR.

variablebinary
12-20-08, 04:36
Because barring the stock, variablebinary essentially has the same weapon for about $1,100.00 USD less. And it's barrel/caliber change seems to be more on the KISS side.

Sorry variablebinary, didn't mean to drag you into this.
Disclaimer: variablebinary has no affilition with Savior 6 or any of his thoughts. He just happens to have badass weapon that could have easily been our precious SCAR.


I dont disagree. The XCR is outstanding and is much cheaper. I've pretty much known that the SCAR would clock in around $2200 for awhile, so I saved for it a long time ago.

Personally if I were in a position where I could only have one, I'd get the XCR, and the price difference wouldnt be the major factor either

kal
12-20-08, 08:39
so I don't know why all the crying over a well thought out weapon with most of the "add on's" we'd put on it anyway

OK I'm going to kick the dead horse a couple more times...

The "crying" is because the rifle is $2,700 stock. The rifle has not been customized yet.

If a person wants a cqb rifle, all-round carbine, marksman rifle, etc, they can build one the way they want it with the optics, grips, lights, whatever necessary and still come out cheaper or at around the SCAR's stock price.

Of course the SCAR offers more than just rails, like a better op system, certain ergonomic features ,etc, but that's up to an individual to determine if those are worth the asking price.

Jay Cunningham
12-20-08, 09:05
OK I'm going to kick the dead horse a couple more times...

The "crying" is because the rifle is $2,700 stock. The rifle has not been customized yet.

If a person wants a cqb rifle, all-round carbine, marksman rifle, etc, they can build one the way they want it with the optics, grips, lights, whatever necessary and still come out cheaper or at around the SCAR's stock price.

Of course the SCAR offers more than just rails, like a better op system, certain ergonomic features ,etc, but that's up to an individual to determine if those are worth the asking price.

The horse is done kicked. If you don't want one don't buy one.

Razorhunter
12-20-08, 10:43
Enough talk about the price of the gun.

Has anyone else noticed that the SCAR just has a very distinctive sound when fired? (especially when fired rapidly on S/A).
For those who haven't heard it in person, each time Guns and Ammo TV show comes on, that distinctive SCAR sound can be heard as Dave Fortier sounds off in fairly rapid S/A fire during the coming on of the show.
Anyone else noticed this? The sound is like no other I've heard before.


On a seperate note, does anyone know if the 5.56 SCAR Lights will be 6.8 capable? Will it be possible to swap the 5.56 bbl and bolt out, for a 6.8 bbl and bolt, thus resulting in a caliber swap?
Man that sure would be nice. I hope FN makes this a possibility, if it's indeed mechanically possible.

TOrrock
12-20-08, 10:51
Enough talk about the price of the gun.

Has anyone else noticed that the SCAR just has a very distinctive sound when fired? (especially when fired rapidly on S/A).
For those who haven't heard it in person, each time Guns and Ammo TV show comes on, that distinctive SCAR sound can be heard as Dave Fortier sounds off in fairly rapid S/A fire during the coming on of the show.
Anyone else noticed this? The sound is like no other I've heard before.


On a seperate note, does anyone know if the 5.56 SCAR Lights will be 6.8 capable? Will it be possible to swap the 5.56 bbl and bolt out, for a 6.8 bbl and bolt, thus resulting in a caliber swap?
Man that sure would be nice. I hope FN makes this a possibility, if it's indeed mechanically possible.




[clint eastwood]"This is the SCAR Mk.16 Mod.O, the choice of a new generation, and it makes a distinctive sound when fired at you."[/clint eastwood]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqhsLsplhEI

:p

Razorhunter
12-20-08, 11:28
Nice vid, but unfortunately, you cannot hear the sound I'm referring to.
Admittedely however, it sounds much better on F/A!

variablebinary
12-20-08, 11:33
Nice vid, but unfortunately, you cannot hear the sound I'm referring to.
Admittedely however, it sounds much better on F/A!

Where is the G&A vid? I've heard about it but never seen it

Razorhunter
12-20-08, 17:58
I didn't realize there was one online. I just happened to see the Guns and Ammo TV show, and it was very apparent. That footage is also now included in every introduction to each Guns and Ammo show each week.
It's almost a slight "pinging" noise, or kind of a "ringing" noise you can distinctly hear. It's clear it's not just background noise, or anything like that.
I've heard it a number of times on other programs, which have shown the SCAR being used in 3-gun competition.
Also, the SCAR always seems to sound like it just fires a bit slower than other S/A weapons. Not sure why, but that's always how it sounds. It just seems that the shooter cannot fire as many rounds off, as would be possible with a regular S/A M4. Anyone else noticed this?

TOrrock
12-20-08, 18:04
I didn't realize there was one online. I just happened to see the Guns and Ammo TV show, and it was very apparent. That footage is also now included in every introduction to each Guns and Ammo show each week.
It's almost a slight "pinging" noise, or kind of a "ringing" noise you can distinctly hear. It's clear it's not just background noise, or anything like that.
I've heard it a number of times on other programs, which have shown the SCAR being used in 3-gun competition.
Also, the SCAR always seems to sound like it just fires a bit slower than other S/A weapons. Not sure why, but that's always how it sounds. It just seems that the shooter cannot fire as many rounds off, as would be possible with a regular S/A M4. Anyone else noticed this?

You're hearing the flash suppressor harmonics. M14's sound similar too, especially with a Vortex.

As far as rate of fire....Paul, that's an extremely subjective thing and it greatly depends on the shooter. If you're comparing rof in semi auto between a stock SCAR-L and a tricked out 3 gun AR space gun with a 4oz trigger, that's not a valid comparison.


I think you're readin way too much into it.

Relax and get the SCAR in your hands and then write up your experiences.

Razorhunter
12-20-08, 18:30
Templar! Relax buddy. I'm not reading into anything. The numbers advertised are 625rpm for the SCAR, and an AR/M4/AK is usually 750-850 I think?
I'm talking stock AR. Not a 3-gun AR with hair trigger. These are not my numbers. Factory numbers.
Just an observation I've noticed on numerous occasions (actually every occasion) that I've heard the SCAR fired.
It's certainly not a complaint. Just an innocent observation.

variablebinary
12-21-08, 00:46
Spoke to two dealers today that seemed confident that they would have SCAR's before the year was over.

We'll see...

ITSTOCK
12-21-08, 11:43
Spoke to two dealers today that seemed confident that they would have SCAR's before the year was over.

We'll see...

That's all fine and dandy and I HOPE that your dealer is right, but I have my doubts. And I'm in no rush either. When it gets here, it gets here.



Hi Steve,

I am taking care of (insert my dealers store) account.

I will be giving Tom my very first batch of SCAR RIFLES when they hit in late winter.

You will be taken care of I am glad to say.



Thank you,

Have a great Holiday season!



Paul


That is from one of the salesmen at the distributor. He said that he is only going on what FN tells him, and FN said that they can't promise a date, it's anywhere from now until March. That's the most information FN is giving on the 16s release to it's distributors. Also, the "batch" that my dealer is getting is literally only one SCAR.