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SuicideHz
11-05-06, 18:01
Well, I received it Thursday and am not too happy with it. Asked my FFL to show me how to install the slide lock so as to not create the "evil scratch" and with all of his experience and expertise, couldn't help scratching it.

I don't have the problem with the extra burr in front of the ramps like a lot of guys report- mine is machined and beveled nicely.

But, the barrel looks like a gray plastic toy barrel with a herringbone pattern of machine marks in it. Looks really crappy:

http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/800x600x1/0599bbf61c6399f64b560b0682f9e96a-.jpg

http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/800x600x1/643824ca5baf8d75dd7d846ed5c827ad-.jpg

The inside of the slide is nothing but bad machining marks- can't clean that area with a patch. It will totally shred on the marks:

http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/800x600x1/ed3d17ab1e4c87f9ef76aaa6ddc9c203-.jpg

I've got the all too common problem of extra metal in the breachface that leaves marks on the brass:

http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/1024x768x1/555212e0169dcb2968ff6f80b9642c5e-.jpg
(if you know what you are looking for, you can see it. If not, check out the 1911 forums...)

NASTY gouges on this part of the barrel:

http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/800x600x1/9feba62bdf6b3883dc348525405125d5-.jpg

After putting 125 rounds through it, the slide stop wore through the finish in 4 places. You can also see where my FFL put the small scratch in the frame:

http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/800x600x1/12fbbdcaec7f0dcaaac4005bdceb7674-.jpg

The trigger is sloppy as all hell. There is about 0.045" of play in it- up and down. It wiggles the full amount of the gap that you see in the following pictures:

http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/800x600x1/1a599e044b4b8c7349145e0ac72fa150-.jpg

http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/800x600x1/de09983f380d33c82789cd6572daee40-.jpg

It only took 3 days and 125 rounds for these ****ing marks to appear:

http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/800x600x1/de4dee70290b57f9de9db7e752eb705f-.jpg

Absolutely beautiful fronstrap serrations:

http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/800x600x1/b86fb07dcbfee214dbdd4f87f64194d7-.jpg

Uneven as they could possibly be. Goddamn wave...

No FTFs or FTEs in 100 rounds of WWB or 25 rounds of 185gr. Golden Saber.

I'm calling S&W tomorrow at lunch and asking for a return receipt label.

Milkman
11-05-06, 18:24
That is an ugly pistol.

Have you considered a custom?

rob_s
11-05-06, 18:27
Yikes!:eek:

"best buy for the price" indeed.:rolleyes:

David Thomas
11-05-06, 19:24
Well, at least the grips look nice.

Every stock S&W 1911 I have handled had the "Rat-L-Trap" trigger, except for the performance center guns.
I am not surprised. Calculated risk by S&W: most people would not have noticed any of those flaws or if they did they wouldn't complain to S&W.

SuicideHz
11-05-06, 22:46
I can't help it. That's the way I am. I should have bought a used Kimber TLE/RL like I've seen for $800-850. That way, any small scratches or blemishes could be seen as battle scars. These problems are just ridiculous.

Oh, the grips are nice wood grips but the medallions are crap. Very waxy looking- not sharp and crisp like a freshly minted coin or anything...

bigbore
11-05-06, 23:04
Does it work?

VA_Dinger
11-06-06, 12:58
It certainly does not look like a best 1911 S&W has let go out the door. That being said the only part that truly affects function is the sloppy trigger. That in itself would be a show stopper for me. I would send it back for that reason alone. You cannot take away the 1911's #1 advantage (Trigger) with a fit that sloppy.

FYI- 1911's in this price range are not going to be perfect. Especially after a few hundred rounds. Metal to metal contact tends to remove finish and show wear marks. Even more so on a production gun. I know that does not help to explain away all of your guns issues, but it’s something to remember.

SuicideHz
11-06-06, 12:58
Don't give me that "Does it work" bullshit...

I didn't buy this ******* thing for combat or duty. I bought it to have a somewhat decent 1911.

Look at the ******* wear the slide stop caused on the frame after 125 rounds.

I bet if there was a single scratch on one of your RRAs, it would be back to Geneseo in a heartbeat.

Edited by Va_Dinger to remove a few inappropriate phrases.

Hint - Let's play nice.

SuicideHz
11-06-06, 13:01
How about the machine marks all over the barrel and those bite marks on the ears that hold the link in place?

How about the extra material on the breechface that leaves it's mark on brass?

Maybe I should just stick with Glocks or buy an H&K if I want a .45...

VA_Dinger
11-06-06, 13:17
How about the machine marks all over the barrel and those bite marks on the ears that hold the link in place?

How about the extra material on the breechface that leaves it's mark on brass?

No one is saying your gun is "Fine". It certainly has a few "Issues", while I'm not sure how many of them would actually affect function or reliability (Other than the trigger wobble).

FYI - This is a production gun. It did not receive much if any hand fitting or tuning.



Maybe I should just stick with Glocks or buy an H&K if I want a .45...

That's probably true if every one of these imperfections bothers you this much. Some of them are very typical of production 1911's in this price range. That being said yours should certainly should go back. It's worse than most.


Just don't expect "Perfection" in this price range.

SuicideHz
11-06-06, 13:20
A friend bought a GSR recently. I'm thinking I should have ponied up the cash for a GSR or Kimber. I could have waited a few weeks. Hell, I'm getting married in two and there ought to be a little cash to divert into the gun fund...

VA_Dinger
11-06-06, 13:22
What model is it? How much did you pay for it?

SuicideHz
11-06-06, 13:26
It's model #108285. I recently replied to a 1911 post with a bunch of it's statistics...

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14721&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15709&isFirearm=Y


That's the link to their page.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/108285_large.jpg

ETA: I paid $775 for it out the door. Had my dealer order it from his distributor.

The worst part is, it has a born on date of 10-17. People have been complaining about the material on the breechface for over a year now. I'm glad SW took care of that issue.

bigbore
11-06-06, 13:35
:rolleyes:

SuicideHz
11-06-06, 13:44
Aw Jesus Steve! This is the first new handgun I've bought in awhile. My last was a Glock 32 3 years ago. I'm not into having all my guns look pretty- I'd rather they function over anything else.

But, 1911s can be pretty guns and I thought I'd get a nice blue S&W that I could keep looking nice and classy. I won't be carrying it or throwing it around at the range so there's no reason not to think I could keep it in an excellent condition.

It's a little annoying that right off the get-go it's fully of problems. The guys on m1911.org think these flaws are a pretty big deal- but then again, I have 8 points against me now for using the word "crap" twice.

bigbore
11-06-06, 14:36
Aw Jesus Steve! This is the first new handgun I've bought in awhile. My last was a Glock 32 3 years ago. I'm not into having all my guns look pretty- I'd rather they function over anything else.

But, 1911s can be pretty guns and I thought I'd get a nice blue S&W that I could keep looking nice and classy. I won't be carrying it or throwing it around at the range so there's no reason not to think I could keep it in an excellent condition.

It's a little annoying that right off the get-go it's fully of problems. The guys on m1911.org think these flaws are a pretty big deal- but then again, I have 8 points against me now for using the word "crap" twice.


1. I'm just pushing your buttons;)
2. The people that hang out in 1911 sites are anal, cry babies, who ran out of vagisil 10 years ago.
3. I do think your complaints about scratches after use are silly.
4. Send me you scratched up 1911, and I'll send you a brand new one.


I've been meaning to get one to play with, and yours will do me just as well as a new one.

rob_s
11-06-06, 14:52
Personally I'd be concerned about the overall quality of the gun reflected in the details that are readily visible. If it looks like a POS at first glance it likely is a POS>

I also think that people have a right to expect a quality product for their money, and have a right to be dissapointed when it's not quality. Whether or not the gun goes bang is not the only criteria for customer satisfaction.

I think the original poster has a right to be disapointed in his purchase, but I also have to think a little bit of "what did you expect?" I would never have bought something like that sight unseen.

SuicideHz
11-06-06, 15:11
I would hope if anything, a factory direct gun could be bought sight-unseen, right? Maybe that means nothing at all should be bought sight-unseen.

What do you have for me Steve?


"Freaking, crap, hell, etc are NOT allowed." -John C., m1911.org

olds442tyguy
11-06-06, 16:05
Well I'd be a little upset too, but I don't see any need to explode. :cool:

Call S&W, or better yet, take Steve up on his offer. I'd call it a lemon based on the SW's I've seen, and every brand has their share.

If it were me though, I'd just shoot the living piss out of it and get it custom smithed later on down the road. Getting a 1911 that's both perfect in appearance and 100% reliable for under $1K is not an everyday occurence.

bigbore
11-06-06, 16:06
What do you have for me Steve?


I'll get you an exact replacement. I'll trade you your used scratched one for a brand new version of the same model. I mean that as sincerely as I do smartassly:)

There are more critical areas that need to work together on a 1911 than probably any other auto loader. The cosmetics you guys are concerned with are meaningless(but expected fromn the 1911 crowd). Machine marks on the barrel and inside the slide?! Boo ****in Hoo

"Looks like" means nothing. The S&W 1911 Super Dave drove all weekend looked like a piece of shit. The guy who knows how to use the ugly one will kill the the guy holding the pretty one he was afraid to scratch.

My 1911 looks like a shit, but my arrogance regarding my ability with it I consider well earned - If your not confident you and make the shot playing around, how are you going to make it under stress. If you own a gun for anything other than collection/safe queen, learn how to use it and you wont worry about that petty shit.

SuicideHz
11-06-06, 16:25
Ok, here we go again:

What is this wear shown on the left with the two arrows pointing towards it?
http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/800x600x1/0599bbf61c6399f64b560b0682f9e96a-.jpg

Maybe this is only cosmetic, but I've got the all too common problem of extra metal in the breachface that leaves marks on the brass:

http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/1024x768x1/555212e0169dcb2968ff6f80b9642c5e-.jpg
(if you know what you are looking for, you can see it. If not, check out the 1911 forums...)

Are these NASTY gouges on this part of the barrel only cosmetic?:

http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/800x600x1/9feba62bdf6b3883dc348525405125d5-.jpg

The trigger is sloppy as all hell. There is about 0.045" of play in it- up and down. It wiggles the full amount of the gap that you see in the following pictures. This can't possibly be correct or a sign that everything is working correctly:

http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/800x600x1/1a599e044b4b8c7349145e0ac72fa150-.jpg

http://suicidehz.zoto.com/img/800x600x1/de09983f380d33c82789cd6572daee40-.jpg

Admin
11-06-06, 17:13
That wear pattern on the upper barrel lugs is just some scuffing from the machining marks in the slide. Nothing to worry about. You'll probably start to see them on the barrel hood as well... It'll start to mar up that fancy herringbone pattern ;) :D

That ding on the lower barrel lug is something somewhat concerning though... if it's due to an obstruction in the frame that it's crashing into. If it's just a (really) sloppy fit job done in machining, it shouldn't be a big deal other than looking like shoddy workmanship.

The trigger does look a lot worse than any other SW1911 I've seen. Don't blame you for wanting that fixed.

I have a SW1911PD with that same ledge on the breechface. Never caused a functionality problem, just marks up the brass a bit. It does eventually get peened down a bit on it's own. If it really bugs you (reloads perhaps) and you don't want to wait for the SW repair shop, you can take it down pretty easily with a flat scraper file from brownells.

I have the scandium framed version and the finish on that is rather fragile as well. There's areas under the thumb safety that rubbed through the finish before I even shot the thing. And if you drop the slide using the slide stop, expect the finish to get even worse in that area.

Overall it looks like you got a poorly fitted one and if for nothing else, I'd want that trigger fixed.

How's the barrel crown? Mine looked like they ran a rifling die thru it and called it a day... Looking at it you'd think it would shoot at right angles but i'll be damned if it isn't accurate as hell.

I can understand being disappointed in a brand new pistol looking a little rough... but just take a look at Steve's 1911 and you'll feel better :D ;)

rob_s
11-06-06, 17:36
I'll get you an exact replacement. I'll trade you your used scratched one for a brand new version of the same model. I mean that as sincerely as I do smartassly:)

There are more critical areas that need to work together on a 1911 than probably any other auto loader. The cosmetics you guys are concerned with are meaningless(but expected fromn the 1911 crowd). Machine marks on the barrel and inside the slide?! Boo ****in Hoo

"Looks like" means nothing. The S&W 1911 Super Dave drove all weekend looked like a piece of shit. The guy who knows how to use the ugly one will kill the the guy holding the pretty one he was afraid to scratch.

My 1911 looks like a shit, but my arrogance regarding my ability with it I consider well earned - If your not confident you and make the shot playing around, how are you going to make it under stress. If you own a gun for anything other than collection/safe queen, learn how to use it and you wont worry about that petty shit.
While I agree to a point, I still want to have something that looks nice, and when it looks like shit right out of the gate it indicates a complete lack of concern for the manufacturing process and it would make me very nervous about the overall quality of the firearm.

Having something that started out well made and well machined and breaking/wearing it in yourself over time is one thing, starting out with something that looks like it was machined by the kids on the short bus is something else altogether.

SuicideHz
11-06-06, 18:24
rob shares my exact point of view. I buy new for new and should be able to break it as I see fit. I'm not the type of guy that buys jeans with holes already in them and I'm sure none of you guys are either. You buy the good jeans and wear them like they're the good jeans. When they start to wear or "break in" it's because you and they have done their jobs together...

Milkman
11-06-06, 18:41
The majority of the problems with that pistol are cosmetic with the exception of the trigger. However, if it were me who bought the gun I would be disappointed because it should at least be nice looking from the start. The trigger doesn't represent a big issue because it can be fixed for $20 and 20 minutes of fitting.

I'd take Steve up on his offer. You'll be out transfer fees but it beets having to deal with RMA's and such.

ETA: Would you please take a picture of the VIS in your receiver? I suspect the mark on the lower lug is sloppy machining but a picture would show if otherwise

SuicideHz
11-06-06, 18:43
It's not as if I am cursed. Steve will probably get close to the same product from Smith and Wesson if he orders one...

Milkman
11-06-06, 18:48
A friend bought a GSR recently. I'm thinking I should have ponied up the cash for a GSR or Kimber. I could have waited a few weeks. Hell, I'm getting married in two and there ought to be a little cash to divert into the gun fund...

How does your friend like his GSR? The forums are loaded with complaints.

SuicideHz
11-06-06, 18:51
I think he likes it but he was shot while at the range. Well, hit with a bullet fragment if that counts...

bigbore
11-06-06, 18:58
You'll be out transfer fees but it beets having to deal with RMA's and such.



I forgot about sending it back. S&W Customer service is one of the BEST. If you want to call and tell them you are sending it back for a new trigger and maybe even barrel, they'll replace the parts and return ASAP.

SuicideHz
11-06-06, 19:06
The main reason I come here to whine in the first place is to get a feel for whether my expectations are realistic or not. I will call SW but I just don't want to end up getting the pistol back in a month to find out that the sloppy trigger is their standard trigger and it won't get any better.

If at my price point I have to deal with a sloppy trigger, then I will. But, this is why I am asking you guys.

bigbore
11-06-06, 19:15
If at my price point I have to deal with a sloppy trigger, then I will. But, this is why I am asking you guys.


Your trigger looks like the majority of Wilson Combat triggers I've seen in the past couple years....

For what you paid - you have a functional 1911. And in that price range, I would still go for S&W. The Kimber or SA with the same features will probably run you another $200 that would be better spent on practice ammo for what you have.

QuietShootr
11-06-06, 19:40
I would hope if anything, a factory direct gun could be bought sight-unseen, right? Maybe that means nothing at all should be bought sight-unseen.

What do you have for me Steve?


"Freaking, crap, hell, etc are NOT allowed." -John C., m1911.org

LOL...I got chastised earlier today for dropping an f-bomb over there.

Vagisil indeed...

SuicideHz
11-06-06, 20:15
Well, I'm banned for 7 days now.

Admin- Thanks for pointing a few things out. Those marks on the lugs were always there. Nothing new and not getting any worse.

The crown isn't anything to brag about. I don't like it much but the barrel is straight and thin. I'd rather have a heavier barrel that could have a good crown to it.

I'll have to take a good picture of it and ask Steve what kind of crowning he could do for me! :D

VA_Dinger
11-06-06, 20:27
As much as I usually disagree with Steve about WC, he is 100% correct this time.

My light railed CQB trigger looked very similar. It did not affect function in any way, but it certainly had a gap. It was a compatibility issue with their triggers & light railed frames. At least it was a few years ago. A friend of mine bought a standard CQB a few weeks after me and his looked fine. Two months later he bought a light railed CQB similar to mine and it had the gap also. Again, it had zero affect on function. The triggers were rock solid and broke cleanly at 4lb.

Odd to say the least.

I have not noticed this for a few years though.

rob_s
11-06-06, 21:16
As much as I usually disagree with Steve about WC, he is 100% correct this time.

My light railed CQB trigger looked very similar. It did not affect function in any way, but it certainly had a gap. It was a compatibility issue with their triggers & light railed frames. At least it was a few years ago. A friend of mine bought a standard CQB a few weeks after me and his looked fine. Two months later he bought a light railed CQB similar to mine and it had the gap also. Again, it had zero affect on function. The triggers were rock solid and broke cleanly at 4lb.

Odd to say the least.

I have not noticed this for a few years though.
But did it wobble? If you look at the S&W pics you can see that it wobbles up and down in the track.

bullitt5172
11-06-06, 21:21
But did it wobble? If you look at the S&W pics you can see that it wobbles up and down in the track.

True, I don't think I have seen a Wilson trigger that wasn't solid in feel. My CQB is perfect.

You have a valid complaint with the S&W, send it back they should take care of it. Go read on 1911forum under the S&W portion, many issues out of the box but most are taken care of. Under $1000 I'll still go with a SA or Colt, they seem to be have better QC than others. Kimber is fine if you can find a pre-series II.

VA_Dinger
11-06-06, 21:27
But did it wobble? If you look at the S&W pics you can see that it wobbles up and down in the track.

No, my CQB's trigger was rock solid and very smooth.

It just had the gap.

SuicideHz’s S&W trigger installation & fit is nothing less than hideous.

The good part is that I’ve heard nothing but good things about S&W’s customer service. I’m sure they will take care of him and make it right.

SuicideHz
11-07-06, 12:47
I may just keep her and beat the hell out of her for awhile. I've already emailed SW with pictures that I posted here for record. I may as well ride her hard and see what she can do. If I develop any more problems, I can send her in later.

SuicideHz
11-07-06, 19:56
Well I took two friends to the range this evening and we force fed 350 rounds through her. We had two FTFs with my one friend. It was Remington UMC 230gr. From what I saw, they didn't nose-up into the chamber, they just didn't feed from the mag. I would almost say it needs M4 feedramps!!

I cleaned her (that dirty bitch) and polished the marks out of the chamber hood with sandpaper. Laid the sandpaper on a t-shirt on my work bench and just worked the top of the chamber side to side over it. Now it's shiny like their stock photos!

Funny thing is my dealer just got back from the Indy show with a used Kimber Tactical Custom II with the blueish alloy frame and nice grips. It had really nice checkering on the frontstrap and under the triggerguard. Ambi safety felt really nice. Meprolights were very shiny. Gun had 200 rounds through it and was tight as hell with no marks. He wants $225 plus my gun- he offered to take it in trade.

I'm going to put this trigger into it I think:
http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/296000053.jpg

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=20528&title=SOLID+BLANK+TRIGGER&s=45285#45285

EGW solid Blank trigger for $30. A friend said a cheap $16 trigger would suffice more than likely.