View Full Version : What handheld light are you pressing into service as a carbine light?
Obviously the G2 gets a lot of use. What about various E-series? Specific models?
Don Robison
11-28-08, 22:33
I was using a Pentagon X3 for a while until I switched it out for an X200A.
Skintop911
11-28-08, 22:48
Obviously the G2 gets a lot of use. What about various E-series? Specific models?
I use the G2 more than any other, and it's my standing recommendation.
If using an E-series, go for a E2D-LED or KX2C conversion head in an existing incan E-model. FYI, buying a new E2D-LED is more economical than converting.
The E-series incan lamps don't last as long as the 6P/G2 incan lamps on a gun. They're also not quite as bright, and not expandable beyond the MN03 incan lamp. Serviceable, but suboptimal.
matthewdanger
11-28-08, 22:55
I have a G2L on every rifle but one. I think they offer a great balance of weight, durability, price, brightness, and runtime.
I've been using G2Ls recently. I put one on my SLR-107CR and I just put another on on my new BCM middy build and moved a couple 6Ps to other duties.
I have been using a P6 with LED retrofit lamp in a LaRue mount lately and like the setup. It also has the click on/off tailcap, which I feel is essential for a weapon mounted light.
I've been impressed enough with the Surefire LEDs to begin switching all of my lights over to G2Ls. I don't think their combination of durability, economy and flexibility (in terms of mount setup and placement) can be beat.
I have an E sized Larue mount that'll get switched over to an E2L (I think) from the WG6D that's in it now since I'd rather swap the light than swap the light and the rings (yes, I'm dumb like that).
I was not a big believer in LED weaponlights for a long time, but they've gotten better especially in terms of throw. I don't see a good reason to stick with incandescent lights at this point.
I've been impressed enough with the Surefire LEDs to begin switching all of my lights over to G2Ls. I don't think their combination of durability, economy and flexibility (in terms of mount setup and placement) can be beat.
I have an E sized Larue mount that'll get switched over to an E2L (I think) from the WG6D that's in it now since I'd rather swap the light than swap the light and the rings (yes, I'm dumb like that).
I was not a big believer in LED weaponlights for a long time, but they've gotten better especially in terms of throw. I don't see a good reason to stick with incandescent lights at this point.
The only logical reason to use an incan is if you intend to put an IR filter on the light. Otherwise, LED is superior in almost every measurable way (other than color rendition, but that is changing). An LED can have an optic or reflector designed for full flood, a laser tight beam, or anything in between.
I would strongly suggest the KX2C head over the E2D or E2L as gun lights. The current E series LED lights are all dual mode, switched through the tailcap. That means that if you happen to break the circuit in the light (such as is possible during recoil or rough handling) the light will switch from 120 lumens to 5 lumens. Surefire actually released some single stage E2DLs to the public (basically, the KX2C head with a strike bezel), but they are rare and difficult to find.
I am going to try both my single stage E2DL and my Olight M20 Warrior. I am leaning toward the Warrior, but I really like the lighter weight of the E series Surefire. We'll see, but I need to finish the bloody rifle before I worry about the lights.
I have G2L's on my AR's and a Streamlight TL-2 with shockproof bulb on my AK.
Robb Jensen
11-29-08, 05:51
X300s and G3s w/P60L bulbs.
X300s and G3s w/P60L bulbs.
What is your application for the G3? Outdoor use? Longer range?
I thought about putting a G3L on one of my rifles but it's only benefit is runtime, not brightness.
GLOCKMASTER
11-29-08, 07:59
In the past I have thought about using a light from the E series until I tried my current setup. I have been running G2's with Tactical Night Visions Cree Q5 Drop-in Lamps (http://tacticalnightvision.com/illumination.htm) .
matthewdanger
11-29-08, 08:10
One other possible reason to keep some incans around is fog/smoke/haze. Current LEDs lack a lot of infrared, red, and yellow in their output. This puts them at a distinct disadvantage when having to penetrate through something like fog or smoke. The blue-white light that they put out is too easily scattered.
You may not think this is an issue but consider this... during a recent a low light class that I attended it was very humid. It was so humid that it actually did start to slow down those running LED lights (myself included). We just couldn't get as much volume of light on target as we were used to. Did it stop us from getting good hits? No. Was it a good illustration of for those on the line of why we shouldn't be so quick to throw out incans? Yes.
Had we been dealing with smoke or fog it would have been even more difficult. Here's to hoping that LED manufacturers can get us some efficient and warmer toned LEDs!
sonrider657
11-29-08, 08:53
I have Surefire G2's and 6P's with Malkoff drop-ins mounted in Elzetta FSB holders.
Standard Surefire G2 on my SLR-106FR, and a Surefire 6P LED on my 6920.
G2 for two carbines. The only carbines I have lights on, come to think of it.
I just ordered a Fenix TK-11 with a rechargeable 18650 battery. I would love to mount this on my carbine. I've read nothing but good reviews on the Fenix lights but haven't seen many used as weapon lights. Has anyone seen a fenix light / mount that works well?
Skintop911
11-29-08, 23:17
It also has the click on/off tailcap, which I feel is essential for a weapon mounted light.
Why do you feel that way?
What's your context of use?
The only logical reason to use an incan is if you intend to put an IR filter on the light.
Or if you're working outdoors in open areas.
A bright incan with long throw is pretty helpful there.
Skintop911,
To answer your two questions:
Why do you feel that way?
What's your context of use?
I have had my thumb loose contact with the button during a low light class while firing and it was quite annoying. With the tail cap I have now I can use it momentary on to do quick search/sweep and be able to click it on for constant use, seems to be the best of both worlds not having to worry about having constant contact with my light source.
Home defense / plinking / classes in that order.
Robb Jensen
11-30-08, 12:43
What is your application for the G3? Outdoor use? Longer range?
I thought about putting a G3L on one of my rifles but it's only benefit is runtime, not brightness.
I use if for the slightly added battery life. With the P60L in a G3 I don't find it any brighter than a G2 with a P60L bulb. I have one on my SLR106FR and one on my Colt/PWS gun.
packinheavy
11-30-08, 13:16
I am using G2s and a G3. Actually the only one mounted right now is the G3. I need to get another mount or two.
I am also using this cheap Chinese POS on a AK. I want to abuse the hell out of it to see what it can handle. I got it when I ordered some replacement LED lamps to try out. It had a reverse clicky tail switch so it didn't work out for regular use. I popped the pocket clip off of it and put it in a cheap mount and added a tape switch.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14027
It throws a lot of light and will work well for a toy. I wouldn't recommend it for real world use though. When you can get a G2 for just a little more, why risk it? Even if the G2 doesn't put out as much light the quality is there.
Or if you're working outdoors in open areas.
A bright incan with long throw is pretty helpful there.
Traditionally, I'd agree with you, but current LED technology, combined with the right optics, can project a spot nearly a half-mile away... with a single LED.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=211350
Warm toned LEDs are available, and can be mounted in P60 modules for the best of both worlds. The biggest problem with the warmer LED bins is that since they require more phosphor, they are not as efficient (lumens/watt) as cooler LEDs.
Here is one already in a P60. Unfortunately, it has a bunch of extraneous modes, but that is relatively simple to fix (switch out the driver board).
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.17592
Fenix also makes a couple of lights with warmer tinted LEDs in them, such as the TK20.
https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_85&products_id=531
https://www.fenix-store.com/images/TK20_7.jpg
matthewdanger
11-30-08, 14:28
It is certainly true that LEDs can be turned into real throw monsters. Getting them to throw is no longer an issue. However, like I said before, getting them to cut through haze/fog/smoke is still an issue. All the throw in the world won't help you on a humid night when most of your light is being reflected back at you or dispersed by the haze.
We need LEDs with warmer output similar to that of incans. The issue is the color spectrum that is emitted when it comes to cutting through haze/smoke/fog.
I have a G2L in a VTAC mount on my 10.5" SBR, which unfortunaltely is my only AR at the moment. :(
I am working on a new 16" Middy and when finished it will wear a G3 probably with a Malkoff drop-in LED, for better throw and run-time. I have a VTAC mount for it too.
I got some VLTOR mounts in for sale, and really like them too. More $$$ but seem more robust too, and I like the tooless install. Haven't had the chance to shoot with the VLTOR mount to see how it might loosen up. I might switch both VTACs over to VLTORs though.
-RD62
toasterlocker
11-30-08, 18:38
We need LEDs with warmer output similar to that of incans. The issue is the color spectrum that is emitted when it comes to cutting through haze/smoke/fog.
We already have them:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=213984
I wonder how long it will be until LED naysayers finally cease to exist... (not saying you are one of them, just pondering...)
SingleStacker45
11-30-08, 19:12
I'm using a surfire G2 with a lighthound LED conversion on a viking mount. Very Lite weight and the Cree LED is nice and bright. I won't go back to incan since I use a123 rechargeables and they run at a higher voltage.
Mule
matthewdanger
11-30-08, 19:34
We already have them:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=213984
I wonder how long it will be until LED naysayers finally cease to exist... (not saying you are one of them, just pondering...)
Those look great! I own 8 weapon lights and they are all LED, so I think that precludes me from being a naysayer. :)
I definitely need to pic some of those up! These look like THE ANSWER for LED weapon lights. Thanks for the link.
If you sign up on Malkoff Devices email mailing list, Gene sends out notices of what's just become available on his online site. To me, that's a great heads-up!
Failure2Stop
12-02-08, 09:13
I wonder how long it will be until LED naysayers finally cease to exist... (not saying you are one of them, just pondering...)
When they perform to expectations in bad places.
I am one of the LED "naysayers" as I have been let down by LEDs. Now I am not saying that they won't someday equal or outperform incan, just that I haven't used one that did.
Of course there are environments that make the LED/Incan discussion moot, and 90% of white-light tasks will be easily acomplished by either.
While I have a clear preference for Incan over LED in specific roles, I also embrace the LEDs for what they are- rugged and durable with long battery life.
Anyway, to return from the tangent-
I am playing around with a modded Gladius in a VLTOR offset, which I really like.
I have two of these light . Talk about a small powerful light. they are
Click hereLIOTEC EXCLUSIVE (http://www.liotec.com/store/Urnabeam.htm) "Hunter" model
* Q5 230 Lumens from an LED
* 150 Minutes runtime
* 3 Brightness levels High, low and strobe
* Includes Battery and charger
I can see well over 120 yards with this light.
http://www.liotec.com/images/mid_hunter%5B2%5D.jpg
militarymoron
12-09-08, 16:41
novatac EDC-120T, 6P, G2. all with LEDs
I've run an E2D in a VLTOR mount for almost 2 years and through 2 schools with no problems at all.
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