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View Full Version : Tha best brand of AR-15/M4 style



dawidfraniak
12-09-08, 10:11
What brand which production AR-15/M4 style is the best in yours opinion ?

Colt, DPMS, Bushmaster, Charles Daly Defense, Rock River, Noveske, Sabre Defense, Armalite, etc...

I will be very thankful.
Dawid

JBnTX
12-09-08, 10:31
....
Colt, DPMS, Bushmaster, Charles Daly Defense, Rock River, Noveske, Sabre Defense, Armalite, etc...


That list pretty much sums it up.

For the typical everyday civilian AR-15 owner who justs goes to the range to
punch holes in paper, ANY of those brands listed will do just fine.

I like Colt and own only Colts, because they are the original producer and in
my opinion the highest quality.

Pick one you like and have fun.

BH1
12-09-08, 11:08
There is a sticky at the top of this page called "Knowledge Base Threads" that will be very helpful. Specifically the comparison chart here:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642

Failure2Stop
12-09-08, 11:21
"Best" meaning what, and in what context?
Best for punching paper at 600 meters is usually not the "best" for indoor suppressed work.

Define your need and the answer will be apparent.

dawidfraniak
12-09-08, 11:26
"the best" mean:

- highest quality
- lowest failure rate
- good available spare parts
- and etc.

Iraqgunz
12-09-08, 11:27
DPMS and Olympic Arms are the heat. Noveske, Colt and LMT are just over priced muskets.

markm
12-09-08, 11:50
DPMS and Olympic Arms are the heat. Noveske, Colt and LMT are just over priced muskets.

True. All you're paying for is logo and bragging rights at the range. Don't let the Colt snobs try to tell you that an OLY isn just as good.

Dave L.
12-09-08, 11:52
You guys crack me up:D

ZDL
12-09-08, 12:05
DPMS and Olympic Arms are the heat. Noveske, Colt and LMT are just over priced muskets.

Straight up truth right there.

FromMyColdDeadHand
12-09-08, 12:08
The one you spec out yourself and have built ;)

Lot of good manufacturers and builders, probably more of a risk getting the wrong type of rifle and accessories, than buying the wrong brand.

JBnTX
12-09-08, 12:46
You guys crack me up:D


"Colt and LMT are just overpriced muskets."????????????


Them there is fightin' words.:mad:

Put em up! It's on!:rolleyes:

dawidfraniak
12-09-08, 12:50
What do you know about that set:

Colt LE 6920

http://www.colt.com/law/images/lecarbine.jpg

Trijicon Acog TA31H with La Rue Tactical ACOG Mount QD LT-100

http://www.trijicon-inc.com/parts/TA31F2.jpg
http://www.trijicon-inc.com/parts/TA31H-Reticle-web.jpg

with

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/catalog/P1012077200.JPG

Troy Folding Rear Battle Sight FBSRA4

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/catalog/P3122415rsmall.jpg

La Rue Tactical 7.0" Handguard LT15-7 with covers

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/catalog/P1011864small.JPG

And sometime add a Surefire or Pentagon Flashlight

citizensoldier16
12-09-08, 12:53
I bought a Bushmaster and have been more than pleased with it. After some minor modifications, it competes with the LMTs and Noveske rifles without a problem.

I'm of the opinion that its not how good the rifle is...it's how proficient the shooter is. There are people out there that could put 3 rounds through the same hole with the cheapest AR...and there are people who couldn't hit the target once with a fully customized LMT or Colt.

dawidfraniak
12-09-08, 12:57
I'm of the opinion that its not how good the rifle is...it's how proficient the shooter is.

it goes without saying

Parabellum9x19mm
12-09-08, 12:59
the TA31H is calibrated for .308 projectiles, not 5.56

and for what its worth, here's my list for who's "best"

Noveske, BCM, LMT, Colt, Sabre, Charles Daly M4-LE, everyone else.

dawidfraniak
12-09-08, 13:03
the TA31H is calibrated for .308 projectiles, not 5.56

You are sure ? On the Trijicon website I see 5.56 (.223) but I can mistaken.

http://www.trijicon-inc.com/User/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=654&back_row=4&categoryID=3

MarkC
12-09-08, 13:24
If you're not kicking down doors or dreaming that you are it's JP Rifles or Les Baer

jtskier11
12-09-08, 14:10
I bought a Bushmaster and have been more than pleased with it. After some minor modifications, it competes with the LMTs and Noveske rifles without a problem.

I'm of the opinion that its not how good the rifle is...it's how proficient the shooter is. There are people out there that could put 3 rounds through the same hole with the cheapest AR...and there are people who couldn't hit the target once with a fully customized LMT or Colt.

More gun than shooter! My friend has a 6920. He lives in a world where there is nothing but Colt and I feel really bad for him. Cant knock his gun, sure its nice. Too bad he cant hit shit with it. I got a Daly myself and even the finish on my gun is 10 times nicer than his. He also dropped dam near $1600 on it...... Im not an expert by any means. But from my research and findings during the time I was looking for my AR........ I found much more positive feedback on Noveske than I have anything. If I were in the purchasing mood again and had the coin. My money would definitely go to an N4!

decodeddiesel
12-09-08, 14:27
DPMS and Olympic Arms are the heat. Noveske, Colt and LMT are just over priced muskets.

This. What ever you do, don't drink the LMT koolaide.

JBnTX
12-09-08, 14:28
.... My friend has a 6920. He lives in a world where there is nothing but Colt ....


What a wonderful world!

Is there room for one more?

decodeddiesel
12-09-08, 14:29
If you're not kicking down doors or dreaming that you are it's JP Rifles or Les Baer

Um no.

Iraqgunz
12-09-08, 14:30
But seriously though....:D


You guys crack me up:D

MarkC
12-09-08, 15:43
Um no.

LOL.

You had to edit a two word answer?

decodeddiesel
12-09-08, 15:53
LOL.

You had to edit a two word answer?

You wouldn't have liked what I had typed initially, nothing against you but I have strong opinions on "bandwagon" manufacturers.

MarkC
12-09-08, 16:18
You wouldn't have liked what I had typed initially, nothing against you but I have strong opinions on "bandwagon" manufacturers.

Oh Yawn

Parabellum9x19mm
12-09-08, 16:27
You are sure ? On the Trijicon website I see 5.56 (.223) but I can mistaken.




no youre right. maybe its the TA11H that's only in .308

my mistake

a1fabweld
12-09-08, 16:45
I have strong opinions on "bandwagon" manufacturers.

I somewhat agree with you on that one. I know of a few guys who are "big 3" diehards but can't take a bolt carrier group apart. I am a fan of anything that performs well & my CMMG stuff has performed well for me. This year I bought a Colt 6721 upper, Noveske recce upper & a BCM middy upper 1st to see if I can notice any performance advantages between them & the so called p.o.s. CMMG stuff & 2nd because one can't have too many AR's. I plan on doing some apples to apples comparisons with my different uppers in the near future to see first hand if one is more accurate than another. As far as reliability testing, most of us aren't going to be able to give an accurate reliability test other than range shooting, which really doesn't count. Now the guys that do training courses with their AR's & shoot 1k+ rounds in a weekend can vouch for one brand or another.

decodeddiesel
12-09-08, 23:25
You wouldn't have liked what I had typed initially, nothing against you but I have strong opinions on "bandwagon" manufacturers.

Perhaps I should clarify, bandwagon = gun manufacturers whom other wise would have no interest nor business on making ARs other than to capitalize on an otherwise lousy situation.

Iraqgunz
12-10-08, 01:06
But, wait! I thought that the article or ad that I saw for Les Baer said they were the choice among "elite professionals". That means that they have to be IT, right? :confused: :rolleyes:


Perhaps I should clarify, bandwagon = gun manufacturers whom other wise would have no interest nor business on making ARs other than to capitalize on an otherwise lousy situation.

MarkC
12-10-08, 06:36
Perhaps I should clarify, bandwagon = gun manufacturers whom other wise would have no interest nor business on making ARs other than to capitalize on an otherwise lousy situation.

JP has been capitalizing on the "lousy situation" whatever it is you consider that to be, for 30 years. They, along with other small manufacturers like Baer and private individuals making custom guns make great rifles. Their presence in the market only improves the breed overall.

Broadway
12-10-08, 06:38
In all reality, people who shoot on a one way range very well may never see a difference in the various brands. With the price of ammunition skyrocketing this will even more true in the future. People who shoot on a two way range may have a very different opinion however.

The real deciding factor is what does a failure mean to that person when it happens. And unfortunately, some brands fail more consistently in real world use then others.

decodeddiesel
12-10-08, 08:10
JP has been capitalizing on the "lousy situation" whatever it is you consider that to be, for 30 years.

I wasn't talking about JP.


They, along with other small manufacturers like Baer and private individuals making custom guns make great rifles. Their presence in the market only improves the breed overall.

How? :confused: Because they sell some over priced completely mundane rifles? Battlefield and "real world" usage is what is improving the breed, not some people who normally crank out fancy 1911s. Face it, they saw an opportunity to slap their name on something and make a quick buck. No shame in it, a TON of other manufacturers are doing the same thing, but they are not to be considered a top choice in the weapon platform.

MarkC
12-11-08, 06:14
I wasn't talking about JP.



How? :confused: Because they sell some over priced completely mundane rifles? Battlefield and "real world" usage is what is improving the breed, not some people who normally crank out fancy 1911s. Face it, they saw an opportunity to slap their name on something and make a quick buck. No shame in it, a TON of other manufacturers are doing the same thing, but they are not to be considered a top choice in the weapon platform.

And an Aston Martin isn't a good choice for a demolition derby. I don't do demolition derbys. I'll take the Aston.

30 cal slut
12-11-08, 06:57
from a reliability perspective, brands DO matter.

MarkC
12-11-08, 08:10
from a reliability perspective, brands DO matter.

Of course they do. Especially when you're life depends on it. But not everyone here, and I would even wager most, are not in that situation. Also what deco has done is make ethical accusations against manufacturers that are really beyond his ability to know. If everyone thought like him we'd all be shooting Armalites.

If my line of work required that I depend on my weapon for my life I'd place a great deal of weight on what men like Jeff (USMC03) have to say. Competition? Zak Smith, still knowing that within each group there are personal preferences. And frankly I like having 20 different brands to pick and choose from.

decodeddiesel
12-11-08, 10:38
Of course they do. Especially when you're life depends on it. But not everyone here, and I would even wager most, are not in that situation. Also what deco has done is make ethical accusations against manufacturers that are really beyond his ability to know. If everyone thought like him we'd all be shooting Armalites.

If my line of work required that I depend on my weapon for my life I'd place a great deal of weight on what men like Jeff (USMC03) have to say. Competition? Zak Smith, still knowing that within each group there are personal preferences. And frankly I like having 20 different brands to pick and choose from.

Sir, I have no idea where in the hell this Armalite comment is coming from. I admit I was joking around earlier in this thread, but I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth, nor discrediting me simply because I disagree with what you've written. You are no longer making any sense whats so ever so please understand this is the last retort which I will make towards your comments.

You don't know me, and you don't know my experiences. If you want to drop names that's fine and dandy, but I am not going to. I have been on a 2 way range and depended on my weapon to save my life and the lives of my buddies around me. I have spent the better part of my adult life in defense of this country, and I was a "professional" for quite some time. I know what the differences in these weapons are and why they're important.

Let me spell this out, I run Colt, LMT, BCM, and Noveske. Why? Because of all of the AR manufacturers out there peddling their crap, these manufacturers adhere closest to the mil-spec. The mil-spec was written for a reason, it was literally drafted in blood. Yes it is gospel as far as I'm concerned, and I think you will find a resounding echo of this on this site if you search around.

I've been to Les Bear's site and I was not impressed. Don't get me wrong I am a big fan of their 1911s, but they should have stuck with that platform. I'm sorry but YMH rails, bolt on gas blocks, no 1/7 twist, MPI, HPT, 4150 steel, peening, chrome lining, etc. does not inspire confidence that these are serious rifles. No, slapping the name "Thunder Ranch" on a rifle and pistol set does not make it legit.

OneKYards
12-11-08, 10:48
Colt, Armalite, Lewis Machine & Tool, Knight's Armament, Rock River (decent) and ...you can argue the rest

OneKYards
12-11-08, 10:49
I forgot Stag Arms and CMMG. You do know that these Companies make most of the uppers for the industry?

decodeddiesel
12-11-08, 10:50
Colt, Armalite, Lewis Machine & Tool, Knight's Armament, Rock River (decent) and ...you can argue the rest

Understand this is not the same Armalite from years past, and frankly I would not place it in the same category as the other weapons manufacturers which you have listed there.

decodeddiesel
12-11-08, 10:51
I forgot Stag Arms and CMMG. You do know that these Companies make most of the uppers for the industry?

Please check your facts, this is not accurate.

OneKYards
12-11-08, 10:53
All Manuf. quality has slipped with the high demand of the black rifle. Armalite is still a solid weapon. I prefer Colt and LMT

OneKYards
12-11-08, 10:54
And you know the facts?

OneKYards
12-11-08, 10:55
Please share the facts oh wise one...

decodeddiesel
12-11-08, 11:00
Your "Oh wise one" comment was uncalled for and in bad taste.

Sir, you are the one making these claims not I, therefor the burden of proof is on you.

ETA: Nothing else good can come out this thread. I'm done here.

Iraqgunz
12-11-08, 11:42
Please provide some factual sources for this claim other than internet inuendo. I think it is pretty clear that the standards are Colt, LMT and Noveske.

Armalite is probably on par with BM. Personally I could give shit if someone wants to buy a Mattel carbine special. It's your money and if you can spend it as you please. I prefer to spend mine wisely.


I forgot Stag Arms and CMMG. You do know that these Companies make most of the uppers for the industry?

rob_s
12-11-08, 11:46
Color me utterly SHOCKED at the way this thread has turned out. :rolleyes:

OneKYards
12-11-08, 11:47
Confuscious has "signed off." This should be called "The Know it all forums"

"Opinions are like assholes...everybody has one"

Iraqgunz
12-11-08, 11:50
Well apparently you are proving yourself early on as a member here.


Confuscious has "signed off." This should be called "The Know it all forums"

"Opinions are like assholes...everybody has one"

OneKYards
12-11-08, 11:55
Thank you Leg. Yes, I am doing a great job here.

Iraqgunz
12-11-08, 11:59
No actually you are acting like a pompous ass to be truthful. As for being a "leg" you don't know shit about me or what I do so keep your uninformed observations to yourself.


Thank you Leg. Yes, I am doing a great job here.

OneKYards
12-11-08, 12:03
You are a Leg. I see your little picture as you post. Looks like infantry, 3rd Armor, Expert Rifle, some service medals...etc. Were you competent enough to receive an Expert Infantry Badge or did you hide under the CIB?

OneKYards
12-11-08, 12:04
Oohhh..I forgot the Gold German Fitness Badge. I have one of those as well.

Iraqgunz
12-11-08, 12:07
First off "hero" that is a Schuetzenschnur which is a German Markmanship Badge. Finally I am done playing your stupid games. Like I said before you don't know me or know shit about me so again quit drawing conclusions.



Oohhh..I forgot the Gold German Fitness Badge. I have one of those as well.

OneKYards
12-11-08, 12:10
Before you speak to me, drop and do some push-ups. Understand?

Little E-4 talking crap on here. Go cry a river somewhere else.

Iraqgunz
12-11-08, 12:13
Go **** off. Is that clear enough? An the reason it shows E-4 is because it would not allow me to combine the rank from my other branch of service. Like I said drawing conclusions and showing your ass. Why don't you pound sand and go to AR15.com. They'll enjoy your silly antics.


Before you speak to me, drop and do some push-ups. Understand?

Little E-4 talking crap on here. Go cry a river somewhere else.

OneKYards
12-11-08, 12:16
Looks like I hit a sensitive button! You are still an E-4. Rank is rank and it cannot be combined. Maybe you should have asked the Army to combine your rank before you joined. Leg Specialist!

Iraqgunz
12-11-08, 12:21
Obviously you are not only a TROLL but a moron as well. Let me spell it out. I am referring to the militarysignature. It does not allow me to combine the awards and rank as well as other badges from two different branches of the military. Is that clear enough or do I need to draw you a picture with crayons to make you understand?

Anyways I am done with your stupidity.


Looks like I hit a sensitive button! You are still an E-4. Rank is rank and it cannot be combined. Maybe you should have asked the Army to combine your rank before you joined. Leg Specialist!

OneKYards
12-11-08, 12:26
You cannot combine the rank of E-3 with E-4 to make E-7, Corky. You can draw it out with Crayons but I would prefer your mother to do it.

You don't have any "Real" awards. Where is your Bronze Star, Silver Medal, Medal of Honor? Those are real awards that Heroes earn. Thank you for your service but you didn't give it your all.

Tom_Jones
12-11-08, 12:27
Color me utterly SHOCKED at the way this thread has turned out. :rolleyes:

I only read threads like this to see who I should add to my ignore list. Using the ignore feature helps keep the SNR high despite the influx of "noisier" new members.

OneKYards
12-11-08, 12:29
Are you the singing and Dancing Tom Jones? If so, please dance for us.

SHIVAN
12-11-08, 12:58
I don't see this thread as going much worse than it already is. I think I am going to lock it up. If someone is offended by this, please IM me and make your case on why it should be re-opened.

Otherwise, start a new thread and see if it goes better the 2nd time around.

Thanks.