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DRT
02-10-09, 22:34
This sounds very promising. Can't wait until it becomes available. It may just become my new barrier round.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=797

I like the TSX bullet and am glad to see a major, high quality manufacturer offer this projectile in a .223 product. Hopefully, it becomes widely available.

Molon
02-11-09, 00:45
COR-BON has had .223 TSX loads for some time now.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/ncjlgespik.jpg


This COR-BON load uses the Barnes 62 grain TSX bullet which has an all-copper construction. The bullet is much longer than a typical lead core/copper jacketed bullet of the same weight. This load had a muzzle velocity of 2963 fps from the 20" Colt barrel with a NATO chamber and 2850 fps from a 16" Colt barrel with a NATO chamber. The 10-shot group of record fired from a Krieger barreld AR-15 had an extreme spread of 1.75" and a mean radius of 0.61".



http://www.box.net/shared/static/gx4dp7t56v.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/i2b5q3mxql.jpg





I also fired two 10-shot groups of a handload of the Barnes 62 grain TSX for comparison. The smallest group had an extreme spread of 0.98" and a mean radius of 0.295".


http://www.box.net/shared/static/8ybojjxv1b.jpg

RyanB
02-11-09, 01:59
We need a 5.56 load... That fedral stuff looks close but the Cor-Bon is SAAMI.

Molon
02-11-09, 10:23
We need a 5.56 load... That fedral stuff looks close but the Cor-Bon is SAAMI.


The Federal load isn't even close to being a NATO pressure load. Federal uses 24" barrels for their velocity figures.

Nathan_Bell
02-11-09, 10:44
We need a 5.56 load... That fedral stuff looks close but the Cor-Bon is SAAMI.

Why do we need it loaded to 5.56 pressures? Will it penetrate barriers better going ~100 -~150 fps better, or will it start to break up at the higher speed and penetrate less?

Hornady downloads their 75gr LE TAP in comparison to their general usage 75gr TAP, as it handles autoglass better running slightly slower.

RyanB
02-11-09, 15:22
The Federal load isn't even close to being a NATO pressure load. Federal uses 24" barrels for their velocity figures.

Ah. I was comparing it to M193@3200fps via a 20" tube.

NATO pressure ammunition is required to cycle many weapons, particularly LMT.

DRT
02-11-09, 22:00
Yeah, I know corbon loaded them but my personal opinion is their QC isnt the best. I've seen more than one DPX test where the velocity ES has been pretty high (>100fps). I expect a little more for almost $2/round.

I suspect the Federal load will be a little more consistent. Can't wait for a test.

Molon
02-12-09, 01:32
Nathan_Bell

Hornady downloads their 75gr LE TAP in comparison to their general usage 75gr TAP. . .

Nonesense. Hornady .233 75 grain TAP LE has a muzzle velocity of less than 20 fps slower than the hottest lot of Hornady 75 grain TAP FPD that I have chronographed and the 75 grain TAP LE load runs 33 fps faster than some of the slower lots of Hornady 75 grain TAP FPD that I have chronographed. This is due to nothing more than lot to lot variation. There isn't 30 fps difference between .223 75 grain TAP LE and the hottest Hornady 75 grain match load that I've chronographed and the 5.56 75 grain TAP LE runs 122 fps faster than that.


Hornady 75 grain 223 TAP LE versus 75 grain MATCH

http://www.box.net/shared/static/dso7yr8dfd.jpg



Hornady’s 75 grain BTHP Match ammunition (part #8026) is loaded with the same 75 grain boat-tail hollow point bullet that is available from Hornady as a reloading component (part #2279). The case mouth of the Match load has a slight taper crimp on it which puts a small crease in the bullet itself. The Hornady 75 grain 223 TAP load (part #80265) uses essentially the same 75 grain BTHP bullet as the Match load with the addition of a cannelure. Unfortunately, the cannelured version of this bullet is not generally available to the public as a reloading component.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/idkt1ok9ld.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/c36eyg67bp.jpg




Previous lots of both the Match and 223 TAP load have been charged with a short-cut, charcoal colored extruded powder, while the most recent lots that I have purchased (including the ones used in this test session) are charged with a greenish/yellowish colored short cut, extruded powder resembling those powders found in the Hodgdon lineup of powders. Both loads use traditional brass cases and the caseheads from both loads are head-stamped “Hornady 223-REM” and neither load appears to have sealed nor crimped primers. The case mouth of the 223 TAP load is crimped into the cannelure of the bullet.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/kvxia67y1o.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/7zy54zoucg.jpg




previous powder
http://www.box.net/shared/static/0gsl4a688k.jpg




recent powder
http://www.box.net/shared/static/vsmiszbkq8.jpg




Chronograph testing was done using an Oehler 35-P chronograph with "proof-screen" technology. All strings of fire consisted of 10-shots each. All velocities listed below are muzzle velocities, as calculated from the instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software program.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/xteeeidizk.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/7tk29n0nh9.jpg




Accuracy testing was performed using my 24” Krieger barreled AR-15. Shooting was done from a bench-rest at 100 yards. All groups were 10-shot groups. Prior to testing the Hornady ammunition, I fired a 10-shot control group using handloaded 55 grain Sierra BlitzKings. That group had an extreme spread of 0.63”.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/iio0qzouuz.jpg





Starting with the Hornady 75 grain 223 TAP load, I fired five, 10-shot groups from 100 yards and used the best three groups for analysis. Those three groups had extreme spreads that measured:

1.17”
0.87”
1.05”

for a 10-shot group grand average of 1.03”. The three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group that had a composite mean radius of 0.32”.


best 10-shot group of 75 grain 223 TAP

http://www.box.net/shared/static/qy4zoi2kn4.jpg





In the same manner described above, I obtained three 10-shot groups of the Hornady 75 grain Match load. The extreme spreads of those groups measured:

0.89”
1.03”
1.16”

for a 10-shot group grand average of 1.03”! Over-laying those three groups on each other using RSI Shooting Lab yielded a 30-shot composite group with a mean radius of 0.36”.



best 10-shot group of 75 grain MATCH

http://www.box.net/shared/static/s5h2mgnri3.jpg




For additional comparison, I obtained three 10-shot groups from 100 yards using hand-loaded Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullets. The extreme spreads of those groups measured:

0.78”
0.71”
0.52”

for a 10-shot grand average of 0.67”. The mean radius formed from over-laying those three groups on each other was 0.23”.


best 10-shot group of hand-loaded 75 grain BTHP

http://www.box.net/shared/static/8r0fc1rjsi.jpg




Here’s a pic of the composite groups side by side for comparison.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/8ecpfq3lz3.jpg




Lastly, in a tribute to the Internet Commando, I fired two, 3-shot groups in a row from 100 yards using the control load. Both groups were sub-QUARTER-minute-of-angle.http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gif


http://www.box.net/shared/static/71hnyla2vk.jpg











http://www.box.net/shared/static/3roy303okc.jpg

Molon
02-12-09, 11:00
Yeah, I know corbon loaded them but my personal opinion is their QC isnt the best. I've seen more than one DPX test where the velocity ES has been pretty high (>100fps). I expect a little more for almost $2/round.

I suspect the Federal load will be a little more consistent. Can't wait for a test.

The COR-BON load using the 62 grain TSX had a standard deviation of only 18 fps for a 10-shot string fired from a 20" Colt M16A2 barrel. Federal's 62 grain Tactical Bonded load using the TBBC fired from the same barrel had a standard deviation of 22 fps.

Nathan_Bell
02-12-09, 12:07
Nonesense. Hornady .233 75 grain TAP LE has a muzzle velocity of less than 20 fps slower than the hottest lot of Hornady 75 grain TAP FPD that I have chronographed and the 75 grain TAP LE load runs 33 fps faster than some of the slower lots of Hornady 75 grain TAP FPD that I have chronographed. This is due to nothing more than lot to lot variation. There isn't 30 fps difference between .223 75 grain TAP LE and the hottest Hornady 75 grain match load that I've chronographed and the 5.56 75 grain TAP LE runs 122 fps faster than that.

SNIPPED by NVB



I was trusting what Hornady printed on their boxes. It was a 100 fps difference between the LE load and the non-LE load. Will see if I still have the boxes and photo them.

DRT
02-14-09, 12:26
The COR-BON load using the 62 grain TSX had a standard deviation of only 18 fps for a 10-shot string fired from a 20" Colt M16A2 barrel. Federal's 62 grain Tactical Bonded load using the TBBC fired from the same barrel had a standard deviation of 22 fps.

I saw some data from evan marshall's site showing it greater than 100fps. Your results look much better.

What average velocities were you seeing out of 16 & 20" barrels with 62gr dpx and 62gr TBBC?

Based upon your experience, can you comment on the POI difference between these two barriers loads vs 5.56mm 75gr TAP?

Molon
02-14-09, 13:54
I saw some data from evan marshall's site showing it greater than 100fps. Your results look much better.

What average velocities were you seeing out of 16 & 20" barrels with 62gr dpx and 62gr TBBC?

Based upon your experience, can you comment on the POI difference between these two barriers loads vs 5.56mm 75gr TAP?


http://www.box.net/shared/static/ii5ut4ao00.jpg


http://www.box.net/shared/static/4er0rktcgs.jpg




The Federal Tactical 62 grain load uses a bonded soft point bullet with a cannelure. (All the better to shoot your auto-glass with, my dear!) There is a scant amount of lacquer sealant at the case mouth (mostly in the cannelure.) The primers are also sealed and crimped. As you can see from the picture above, the components come loaded in a shiny nickel plated Lake City case.

This load had a muzzle velocity of 2978 fps from a 20" Colt barrel with a NATO chamber and 2885 fps from a 16" Colt barrel with a NATO chamber. The smallest 10-shot group had an extreme spread of 2.13” and a mean radius of 0.54”.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/64oio84g0s.jpg

As for the points of impact, unfortunately many people seem to think (not saying you are one of those people) that the difference in the points of impact between two different loads is due solely to the difference in the exterior ballistics (trajectory) of the two loads. This of course is incorrect.

The difference in the points of impact between two different 5.56mm/.223 loads out to say 75-100 yards will be due in large part to matters of interior ballistics; barrel harmonics and recoil vectors for instance. These components will not be the same from barrel to barrel and are not easily predictable. My weapon might show a different change in the points of impact between different loads than your weapon. Long story short, the only way to know, is to shoot the different loads in your weapon.

DRT
02-14-09, 17:44
My barrels are colt govt profile.

Well I just ordered a couple boxes of 62gr DPX (not cheap) so I'll give them a whirl.

Do you have DPX velocities from your testing?

Molon
02-14-09, 18:15
My barrels are colt govt profile.

Well I just ordered a couple boxes of 62gr DPX (not cheap) so I'll give them a whirl.

Do you have DPX velocities from your testing?

See my first post in this thread.

DRT
02-14-09, 19:25
Oops. Missed it. Thanks.

Molon
02-14-09, 20:11
Oops. Missed it. Thanks.

No problemo. Since you're looking at barrier loads, you might also want to check out the Speer LE 64 grain Gold Dot. Depending upon the forthcoming results of DocGKR's windshield tests with this load, I might be giving it some serious consideration.





http://www.box.net/shared/static/4t0ooddlh1.jpg


This Speer ammunition is loaded with "flash suppressed propellants" and a bonded bullet that has less exposed lead at the meplat than the Federal LE223T2 load. The muzzle velocity from the 20" Colt barrel was 2798 fps. The smallest 10-shot group from 100 yards had an extreme spread of only 0.91" with a mean radius of 0.27"!


http://www.box.net/shared/static/sjommm8yxl.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/tahtdsd7pf.jpg

DRT
02-14-09, 21:59
Im interested in the GD .223 results also. My guess is that the TBBC and DPX will be better through glass while the GD will be more accurate. Are they making a 5.56mm pressure version?

DocGKR
02-15-09, 03:23
The Federal 55 & 62 gr TBBC JSP are still the best of the bunch for glass, followed by the Nosler 60 gr Partition JSP, Remington 62 gr bonded JSP, Speer 64 gr Gold Dot JSP, Swift 75 gr Scirrocco PT, as well as the ATK 77 gr TOTM. The various DPX designs are OK, but do not compare to bonded loads. As noted in other threads, the Barnes all copper TSX bullets are great projectiles and offer good penetration through barriers, however, when first hitting a laminated automobile windshield intermediate barrier, the TSX bullets exhibit less expansion than bonded bullets, as the Barnes jacket either collapses at the nose, the jacket "petals" fold back against the core, or the "petals" are torn off. This phenomena has been documented by the FBI BRF, as well as being noted in our testing. The advantage of the 55 gr TSX is that it has a different ogive and is actually shorter in OAL than the 53 gr TSX, thus the 55 gr TSX will stabilize when fired from 1/12 twist barrels, while the longer 53 gr TSX is not always stabilized in some 1/12 barrels.

DRT
02-15-09, 09:49
Sounds like TBBC is still tops. I'll probably change my order to TBBC or another bonded option.

Molon
02-15-09, 11:59
The Federal 55 & 62 gr TBBC JSP are still the best of the bunch for glass, followed by the Nosler 60 gr Partition JSP, Remington 62 gr bonded JSP, Speer 64 gr Gold Dot JSP, Swift 75 gr Scirrocco PT, as well as the ATK 77 gr TOTM. The various DPX designs are OK, but do not compare to bonded loads. As noted in other threads, the Barnes all copper TSX bullets are great projectiles and offer good penetration through barriers, however, when first hitting a laminated automobile windshield intermediate barrier, the TSX bullets exhibit less expansion than bonded bullets, as the Barnes jacket either collapses at the nose, the jacket "petals" fold back against the core, or the "petals" are torn off. This phenomena has been documented by the FBI BRF, as well as being noted in our testing. The advantage of the 55 gr TSX is that it has a different ogive and is actually shorter in OAL than the 53 gr TSX, thus the 55 gr TSX will stabilize when fired from 1/12 twist barrels, while the longer 53 gr TSX is not always stabilized in some 1/12 barrels.


Doc,

Have you completed your testing of the Speer 64 grain Gold Dot? Any specifics that you can report?

Molon

KevinB
02-15-09, 13:38
Interesting - tag for further info/follow up.

Marcus L.
02-15-09, 14:07
Doc,

Have you completed your testing of the Speer 64 grain Gold Dot? Any specifics that you can report?

Molon

I am also interested in the Gold Dot test. I need to order several cases of duty ammo and I'm looking for something cheaper than the Tactical Bonded stuff. I've tried to get the chief to let me order the Federal stuff before, but the price of it would cut our ammo stocks in half and I'd rather keep more on hand for training.

DRT
02-15-09, 17:33
Doc - How does the remington 62gr bonded compare vs the ATK 64gr gold dot?

DocGKR
02-16-09, 03:10
Hopefully this picture will illustrate what occurs with the all copper Barnes bullets when fired through auto windshields--as stated, the jacket "petals" collapse against the nose, fold back against the core, or the "petals" are torn off; this results in a caliber size projectile configured a lot like a full wadcutter, leading to deep penetration. It occurs in both light and heavy Barnes .223 projectiles:

Barnes 53 gr TSX BG/auto window & Barnes 70 gr TSX BG/auto window fired from 16" 1/7 barrel at 10 feet:
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/556TSXglass.jpg?t=1234771284

For that matter, it occurs with larger caliber Barnes projectiles, as well:

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/BarnesXbullets_recov.jpg?t=1234771383

KevinB
02-16-09, 10:00
Doc, what sort of reliabilty degrading are you getting (if any, and for others as well) with these rounds from standard ball or OTM's?

DocGKR
02-18-09, 12:21
Since the reformulation of the Mk262 powder a few years ago for better sustained high ambient temperature tolerance, we have not seen any substantial reliability issues with quality LE/mil FMJ or OTM rifle ammo from ATK, BH, Hornady, or Winchester. I would caution folks about 5.56 mm JSP ammo, as we have observed that they will run great for up to 200-300 rounds, but then mysterious feeding failures will begin as a result of lead build-up on the feed ramps. I have personally seen this occur with a variety of JSP's including 55 gr, 60 gr, and 64 gr in LE training courses. As soon as FMJ or OTM was substituted, all the feeding failures ceased. If you occasionally scrub off the ramps, this is a non issue...

KevinB
02-18-09, 12:28
Doc, thanks, as that issue has been my major concern with JSP designs

DocGKR
02-22-09, 04:45
Below--Nosler 60 gr Partition in bare gel at 10 ft from 16" barrel:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/postimages/79087-223Nosler60grBG.jpg

.223 BH loaded Nosler 60 gr Partition JSP, vel=2685 fps from a 16” 1/7
BG: pen=18.5”, NL=3.5cm, Max TC diam=11.5cm@11.5cm from 3.5-20cm, RD=0.41”, RL=0.43", RW=52.5gr
Glass: pen=18.9", NL=0cm, Max TC diam=8.5cm@10cm from 0-15cm, RD=0.32", RL=0.34", RW=35.4gr

.223 Fed 62 gr JSP Tactical (LE223T3), vel= 2681 fps from a 16" 1/7
BG: pen=15.4”, NL=1.5cm, MAX TC diam=11cm@10cm from 1.5-18cm, RD=0.48”, RL=0.36", RW=61.8gr
Glass: pen=14.0", NL=0cm, Max TC diam=9cm@10cm from 0-16.5cm; RD=0.46", RL=0.36", RW=46.9gr

.223 Rem 62 gr bonded JSP, vel=2704 fps from a 16" 1/7
BG: 13.0", NL=0.5cm, Max TC=7.5cm@9.5cm from 0.5-16cm; RD=0.57”, RL=0.32”, RW=61.6gr
Glass: 12.0", NL=0cm, Max TC=7@9cm from 0-15cm; RD=0.49”, RL=0.28”, RW=56.6gr

.223 Speer 64 gr JSP Gold Dot, vel=2549 fps from a 16" 1/7
BG: pen=15.4", NL=2cm, Max TC diam=9.5cm@12cm from 2-21cm, RD=0.50”, RL=0.35”, RW=59.2gr
Glass: pen=16.5", NL=0cm, Max TC diam=8cm@7.5cm from 0-16cm, RD=0.44", RL=0.33”, RW=35.5gr

Below--Speer 64 gr GD in bare gel at 10 ft from 16" barrel:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/postimages/79086-223Speer64grGDinBG.JPG

Molon
02-22-09, 10:34
Outstanding information Doc! Your efforts are greatly appreciated.

hk51pdx
02-22-09, 13:00
Thanks Doc.

Now for the neophytes (me), does this indicate these other rounds are in the same league as the Federal LE223T3 for barrier penetration? This has been very helpful for me as some of these types of ammo are difficult to get a hold of, so i might need to go with comparable loads, if not the 'best'.

Jim

DRT
02-22-09, 14:01
The Remington had the largest recovered diameter and retained weight. even versus the TBBC. Remington has largest Permanent cavity in the 0-12" of penetration range with the shortest Neck Length but it's temporary cavity is smaller. How does one interpret the temporary vs permanent tradeoff in this case? Any speculation on how they'd all perform at extended ranges? I ordered a few boxes of the Remington and will give them a try.

jmart
02-22-09, 14:21
As always, thanks.

Kind of surprised at the velocity on the Speer load.

hk51pdx
02-22-09, 14:24
As always, thanks.

Kind of surprised at the velocity on the Speer load.

Agreed. Given it's performance at the comparably lower velocity, i wonder if its downrange performance would suffer more than the others.

DRT
02-22-09, 14:33
Regarding the gold dot, some of ATK's test data shows similar velocity (~2575fps from a 16" barrel) but their after-glass penetration was much less (~9").

See last page of the following link:

http://le.atk.com/pdf/Ft_CollinsPoliceDpmt.pdf

DocGKR
02-22-09, 14:36
The Speer velocities were all over the place--something that appears to be problematic with several of the recent Gold Dot loads in various calibers that are packaged in the new black boxes...

The Fed Tac loads still offer the best and most consistent terminal performance of the bunch, although all work acceptably.

Marcus L.
02-22-09, 15:54
The Speer velocities were all over the place--something that appears to be problem with several of the recent Gold Dot loads in various calibers that are packaged in the new black boxes...

The Fed Tac loads still offer the best and most consistent terminal performance of the bunch, although all work acceptably.

It seems like Gold Dots have been suffering from all kinds of quality controls lately in all calibers. I'm glad I haven't bought any of the new black box GDs, and I probably won't be ordering any for agency use.

bernieb90
02-24-09, 03:30
Dr Roberts,
Have you tested any of the TTSX or MRX barnes bullets against auto glass, and if so what effect if any does the polymer tip have on preventing the collapse of the HP cavity?

DocGKR
02-24-09, 03:55
bernieb90--good question! No, we have not yet had an opportunity to test them.

Wayne Dobbs
02-24-09, 10:10
While Speer's velocities were erratic, I think that most, if not all, of the manufacturers are dropping off in the QC/QA area due to exploding demands. We're probably in for some of "the bad old days" in that regard along with lots of other areas of concern.

Wayne Dobbs
02-24-09, 14:53
Doc,

Any chance that the TTSX, et. al. could be a functional equivalent of the ATK 77grain TOTM projectile you've discussed at NDIA?

Disciple
02-24-09, 18:12
Thank you for the report.

What is the product number for the .223 Rem 62 gr bonded JSP?

Molon
02-25-09, 10:17
Doc,

Have you done any testing to determine the velocity threshold for expansion with the Speer 64 grain Gold Dot; or any of the other barrier load soft-points?

DocGKR
02-25-09, 12:23
Wayne--Perhaps, but currently, the closest functional equivalent to the 77 gr TOTM is the Fed 62 gr LE223T3.

Disciple--The boxes we received were the plain white ones with NO product code. I will attempt to find out additional info.

Molon--Not yet.

DRT
02-26-09, 21:31
Picture of Remington Bonded that I just received. $26.61/box. Exposed lead on bullet on left was nominal, bullet on right was worst case.

Molon
02-27-09, 14:29
I was trusting what Hornady printed on their boxes. It was a 100 fps difference between the LE load and the non-LE load. Will see if I still have the boxes and photo them.

Allow me to do it for you.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/3v3a4xq0rk.jpg


The velocity of 2790 fps for the TAP FPD load is from a 24" barrel, while the velocity of 2630 fps for the TAP LE load is from a 20" barrel. There is no "down-loading" of the LE load occuring.

DocGKR
03-05-09, 03:27
.223 Privi Partizan 75 gr OTM, vel=2468 fps from a 16" 1/7
BG: pen=12.6", NL=2cm, Max TC diam=8cm@12cm from 2-20cm, RD=0.36”, RL=0.15”, RW=30.1gr

5.56 mm Hornady 75 gr T2 TAP OTM, vel=2689 fps from a 16" 1/7
BG: pen=13.8", NL=2cm, Max TC=11cm@12cm from 2-23cm; RD=0.40”, RL=0.25”, RW=30.5gr

5.56 mm BH 77 gr Mk262 Mod1 OTM (SMK), vel=2700 fps from a 16" 1/7
BG: pen=15.8", NL=7cm, Max TC=11cm@15cm from 7-25cm; RD=0.42”, RL=0.12”, RW=25.7gr

The Hornady 75 gr was the most impressive loading in bare gel--even more so than the numbers illustrate and it was extremely consistent...

Molon
03-05-09, 10:45
As always Doc, your efforts contribute greatly to our terminal ballistics knowledge base. Thanks again for your hard work.

Jim from Houston
03-05-09, 19:55
Molon - Do you have one of those excellent ammo reports that you do for the 5.56 T2 TAP round?

Specifically, Hornady talks about the T2 having a "revised profile" in order to improve feeding in the AR platform, and I was wondering if you have any comparison shots of the T2 bullet profile versus regular TAP. Thanks!

Molon
03-05-09, 23:30
Molon - Do you have one of those excellent ammo reports that you do for the 5.56 T2 TAP round?

Specifically, Hornady talks about the T2 having a "revised profile" in order to improve feeding in the AR platform, and I was wondering if you have any comparison shots of the T2 bullet profile versus regular TAP. Thanks!


I asked Dave Emary about the redesigned ogive on the T2 bullet. Here was his reply:

“We made the ogive radius shorter, makes the ogive a little fatter, on the TAP load because testing showed it fed better in the M16/AR. The sharper pointed match bullet would occasionally hang up between the feed ramp cuts in the barrel sleeve on some guns.”


TAP FPD
http://home.comcast.net/~gocartmozart/meplats_FPD_02_resized.jpg




5.56 TAP
http://home.comcast.net/~gocartmozart/meplats_556_04_resized.jpg


http://home.comcast.net/~gocartmozart/T1_and_T2_closeup.jpg



5.56 TAP uses a temperature stabilized “ball” powder.
http://www.box.net/shared/static/uj706hbyei.jpg


http://www.box.net/shared/static/ase9t8z7cu.jpg


Recent lots have both sealed primers and case-mouths.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9418/556tapcaseheadandprimerkm9.jpg

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8315/hornady556tapprimer01rewn9.jpg

http://www.box.net/shared/static/ltdnce86zn.jpg

http://www.box.net/shared/static/kpyv942n8d.jpg


http://www.box.net/shared/static/buf93xyzkz.jpg


http://www.box.net/shared/static/4z6j1th4xo.jpg







Chronograph testing was conducted using an Oehler 35P chronograph with "proof screen" technology. All strings of fire for this report consisted of 10 rounds each unless otherwise noted. All of the velocities listed in this report are MUZZLE velocities and were calculated from the instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software. The three different barrels used in testing were:

A Colt 14.5” M4 barrel
A Colt 16” light weight profile barrel
A Colt 20” government profile barrel

All of the barrels used are chrome lined, NATO chambered and have 1:7” twists.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/y0ophsl6do.jpg


http://www.box.net/shared/static/1f3mq5h0c8.jpg









Velocities of the various 5.56 TAP lots have remained remarkably consistent over the last 2½ years. I still had a few boxes of each lot of 5.56 TAP that I had tested over the last 2½ years, so I decided to fire 10 rounds from each lot over a chronograph in back-to-back fashion. Seven different lots were tested using an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology. The rounds were fired from a 20” Colt M16A2 government profile barrel with chrome lining, a NATO chamber and a 1:7” twist. All velocities listed below are muzzle velocities, as calculated from the instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer. None of the lots tested had an average muzzle velocity that varied more than 0.61% from the grand average muzzle velocity of 2808 fps and most of the lots varied significantly less than that.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/uagv3qxm4s.jpg





Here’s a comparison of muzzle velocities of various heavy OTM loads.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/3roy303okc.jpg


Accuracy of 5.56 TAP From a Noveske Barrel

I assembled a RECCE upper using a Noveske 16” stainless steel recon barrel with a Noveske custom chamber designed to handle NATO pressure ammo. This barrel shoots very well with hand-loaded 77 grain Sierra MatchKings so I thought it would be a good test vehicle for the 5.56 TAP ammunition.

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/1695/noveskerecce32framedpv3.jpg


Testing was done at 100 yards from a bench rest. A Leupold VARI-X III set at 25X magnification was used for sighting. As per my usual method of accuracy testing, three 10-shot groups were obtained for analysis. Prior to shooting the 5.56 TAP ammunition, I obtained three 10-shot groups using one of my standard hand-loads for 77 grain MatchKings. Those three groups had extreme spreads that measured as follows:

0.81”
0.93”
1.01”.

These three groups were over-layed on each other using the RSI Shooting Lab software program to obtain a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for this composite group measured 0.28”. Here’s a pic of the best 10-shot group of the 77 grain MatchKings.

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/8924/noveskereccecontolload01ll8.jpg

The three 10-shot groups of the 5.56 TAP ammunition had extreme spreads that measured as follows:

1.03”
1.20”
1.42”.

Those groups were also over-layed on each other to create a 30-shot composite group with a mean radius of 0.37”. For comparison, the same lot of 5.56 TAP ammunition fired from a 20" Colt HBAR previously had a mean radius of 0.46” with the 10-shot groups measuring 1.16”, 1.38” and 1.45”. The 5.56 TAP ammunition had an improvement in accuracy of approximately 20% when fired from the Noveske barrel as compared to the Colt HBAR.

Below, I have highlighted the circle scribed by the mean radius for each 30-shot composite group to give a better graphic representation of the differences in accuracy.

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/9028/meanradiusemphasis03wz1.jpg

Wayne Dobbs
03-06-09, 09:55
What a joy it is in this era of general stupidity to see articulate writing, excellent organization and excellent photography to convey useful information.

Thanks, Molon!

DRT
03-08-09, 11:15
.223 Privi Partizan 75 gr OTM, vel=2468 fps from a 16" 1/7
BG: pen=12.6", NL=2cm, Max TC diam=8cm@12cm from 2-20cm, RD=0.36”, RL=0.15”, RW=30.1gr

5.56 mm Hornady 75 gr T2 TAP OTM, vel=2689 fps from a 16" 1/7
BG: pen=13.8", NL=2cm, Max TC=11cm@12cm from 2-23cm; RD=0.40”, RL=0.25”, RW=30.5gr

5.56 mm BH 77 gr Mk262 Mod1 OTM (SMK), vel=2700 fps from a 16" 1/7
BG: pen=15.8", NL=7cm, Max TC=11cm@15cm from 7-25cm; RD=0.42”, RL=0.12”, RW=25.7gr

The Hornady 75 gr was the most impressive loading in bare gel--even more so than the numbers illustrate and it was extremely consistent...

DocGKR - Can you please provide any data the you may have for the Hornady T2 through windshields?

DocGKR
03-08-09, 14:47
As noted at http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881:


"None of the .223 OTM bullets, even the heavy 75 - 100 gr loads, offer acceptable performance through automobile windshield glass."

Typically the 75 gr TAP OTM only penetrates 6-8" after auto windshield intermediate barriers.

Iraqgunz
03-08-09, 15:00
Molon,

Another excellent write up. Thank you very much.

Hootiewho
03-08-09, 15:34
I got these from a friend of mine, and they are real. Lake City headstamp. I cannot find much info online, but my search function is not that great. I know they are Barnes triple shock bullets (70 grain I believe).

Anyone have any info on this round?
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q153/hootiewho6933/0220091429a.jpg

5pins
03-08-09, 15:40
I got these from a friend of mine, and they are real. Lake City headstamp. I cannot find much info online, but my search function is not that great. I know they are Barnes triple shock bullets (70 grain I believe).



Did they come in a box? Are the primers crimped? They could be handloads.

Hootiewho
03-08-09, 16:04
Primers are crimped and I believe it is a 08 or 09 headstamp. I don't believe they are handloads knowing where they come from.

Molon
03-08-09, 20:39
I got these from a friend of mine, and they are real. Lake City headstamp. I cannot find much info online, but my search function is not that great. I know they are Barnes triple shock bullets (70 grain I believe).

Anyone have any info on this round?
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q153/hootiewho6933/0220091429a.jpg


Pull a bullet and see if it looks like the one pictured on the right below. Also, is that just a shadow on the bullet tips in your picture or do the bullets have brown tips?http://www.box.net/shared/static/mlmvft9uks.gif


http://www.box.net/shared/static/m6fiuzhwkc.jpg

Hootiewho
03-08-09, 21:26
They are brown tips. They came that way.

DocGKR
03-08-09, 23:50
They are not handloads. They come in a USGI tan box with 30 rounds loaded on stripper clips.

From 7 o'clock: 55 gr M193, 62 gr M855 "green tip", 62 gr M855A1-LFS, 62 gr Mk255 Mod 0 R2LP, 70 gr "brown tip", 77 gr Mk262 Mod 1

http://www.tridentconcepts.com/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/144495419171.jpg

tpd223
03-08-09, 23:59
Doc, you definitely have access to all the cool stuff.

Jack-O
03-09-09, 02:47
Whats the story behind the brown tips? why where and to whom?

Hootiewho
03-09-09, 07:17
Whats the story behind the brown tips? why where and to whom?

Jack, is that a Black Cocker in your avatar? I have one and he is the best dog I have ever had.

I was told they are using them for better barrier penetration while maintaining good terminal effects after going through barriers. I was also told that the terminal effects were guite good on this round. I have shot a few a distance and they hold their own to Mk262 within a few inches.

Jack-O
03-09-09, 12:29
Jack, is that a Black Cocker in your avatar? I have one and he is the best dog I have ever had.



No, It's a skipperke/Pomeranian mix. Sounds goofy, but he's the best and smartest dog I've ever had. I woulda never thought a pom mix would be worth a shit, but this one's a winner for sure!!. He goes everywhere with me and it's getting so people recognize the dog before they recognize me:p Loves to hunt too:cool:

vicious_cb
03-09-09, 16:26
Doc thanks for testing the Prvi load. Alot of us were curious to how it would perform and all we had was water jug testing to go on.

How consistent was the performance of the Prvi 75gr? How does it rate over all when compared to the other heavy OTMs?

BackBlast
05-04-09, 22:03
Question: How much difference does a cannelure make on the heavy OTM rounds? Small difference? Lowered fragmentation threshold with respect to velocity?

DocGKR
05-08-09, 02:17
For most of the OTM's, the cannelure does not effect wounding characteristics at all (ex. Mk262 vs. Mk262 Mod 1) and is present to prevent bullet set-back and improve functioning in semi-auto/full-auto fire.