View Full Version : TLR-1 or X300??
I allready have a 300 but after looking at the streamlight I really cant find a big advantage to the 300. Is there something I am missing? Right now I need two more to go on rifles and the difference between the price is pretty big. Thanks for the advice.
Personally I prefer the mounting style of the X300 (and the Procyon for that matter) to the TLR, which uses a thumb screw (needs a coin to tighten/loosen). Whether or not that matters to you or if it does, is worth the extra cost (x2), I can't tell you.
I have a TRL-1 and used it last Saturday night. I was amazed, amazed past beeing able to describe it.... that thing will allow daylight-like view of 100 yards! Amazing. I was target shooting at 9PM out on my property. I will buy more for my other 2 M4's.
I think budgetary concerns should be included here as well.
Normally im not the kind of guy to skimp on something that could potentially save my life but the TLR1's are half the price if not cheaper than the X300.
For me, they work well enough. Ive put 22k 9mm onto my TLR1 and roughly 2k .223 without an issue.
So for my own purposes, the light has held up durability wise at a fantastic price.
What exactly does the surefire offer besides a steeper price and their name and excellent warranty service?
As far as i know the x300 offers a few more lumens than the C4 model?
The X300 also has a different rocker assembly if i remember right. That rocker assembly might be easier to use for certain users.
What else is there?
PRGGodfather
03-10-09, 22:19
The Insight Technologies Procyon XTI does everything the SF X300 does and more at half the price.
Check it out yourself.
I think the x300 may be a tad bit lighter than the TLR1, but I can't find the stats now.
The momentary/constant switch of the TLR1 is not nearly as nice as the x300, IMO. I don't want to think about which direction to flip the lever if it's on the Glock or mounted on the side of the carbine. Either direction works the same. YMMV.
The orig TLR-1 was great and the new version even better. I have a couple of them and they are worth the $.
Thanks everyone. I will look at the switch on the TRL-1 but unless its completely useless I am going to pick up a couple of them. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to buy the cheap one just to end up buying the expensive one later. Also I wanted to double check, I read that the TRL-1 puts out 124 lumens to the X300's 110, anybody do a comparision? Thanks agian.
I have my TLR-1 mounted on the side of the front sight, it works perfectly because my support hand is there holding the rifle up and if I extend my thumb it naturally hits the TLR-1 switch. I can slide my thumb one way for momentarty on or slide the other way to click on.
The light output is exceptional.
Battery life is said to be 2.5 hours, my original batteries are still in mine from last October, I don't use my light in place of a handheld, so my batteries will last for a long, long time.
I would love a light similar in size and brightness with a 12 hour battery life. Thats like asking for a supermodel GF that cleans and cooks....... but hey, it's nice to dream!
Streamlight TLR-1 (http://streamlight.com/product/product.aspx?pid=80)
$100+/-
Dimensions:
Weight: 4.18 oz.
LED Output: 135 lumens
Run Time: 2.5 hours
Waterproof: 1 Meter
Insight Procyon XTI (http://www.insightlights.com/products-procyon.htm)
$120 +/-
Dimensions: 1.6” x 1.5” x 3.2”
Weight: 4.0 oz. w/Batteries
LED Output: 125+ Lumens
Run Time: 90 Minutes
Waterproof: At 5 Meters / 15 Feet
Surefire X300 (http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&strfnbr=6&prrfnbr=24462&sesent=0,0&search_id=1303413)
$200+/-
Dimensions: 1.39" x 1.43" x 3.53"
Weight: 3.7 ounces (with batteries)
LED Output: 110 lumens
Run Time: 2.4 hours
Waterproof: 22 meters
In theory, all of the above could be construed to mean that the X300 is the worst buy. Dimmer, more expensive... but my experience has taught me that when I vary from Surefire I always wind up regretting it.
But, given that in theory you could buy one of each of the competition for the price of one X300 at MAP, I can certainly understand the temptation. I'm actually somewhat tempted to pick up one of each, but my X300s wills stay on my bedside pistol and rifle.
Having both models mounted on handguns and carbines i like the dg switch option for the surefire vs the tlr. other than that they both serve me well.
Budgetary constraints forced me to pick up a TRL-1 instead of the X200(x300 was either not out yet or no one had them). I broke my first one,(don't have a clue how) but they exchanged it no problems. They were simply amazed because they had never seen the TRL-1 break before, and my model showed no signs of abuse. The one that it was exchanged has had 0 problems and been a great light. I think that it is a great buy, but if I had the cash I would get the X300
PALADIN-hgwt
03-11-09, 16:38
xxxxx
geezerbutler
03-11-09, 17:33
Get several TLR-1's
The cheapest place I know of is at OMBexpress on the web @ $79.99.
BHO will no doubt sign legislation that says the light must be sold for at least $150
I back ordered 2 and they came in a couple of weeks after the date I placed the order. They are OOS again but can be back ordered.
I believe they have free shipping over 49.99 thru today 3/11/09 only. Otherwise search for "OMBExpress Free shipping" coupon or something similar on google.
To me this light is a game changer. The Surefire X300 was considered the best based on lumens and relaibility, especially for handguns, until Streamlight put the C4 led in the TLR1.
I am an X300 owner as well.
Here is link to a TLR-1 LED review by an M4C member.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=23394
This light is a no-brainer.
I have TLR-1- C4's on a Sig, a Glock, a Benelli M2 and an AR.
Cannot resist urge to spend......Must purchase more now
PALADIN-hgwt
03-11-09, 18:36
xxxxx
... but my experience has taught me that when I vary from Surefire I always wind up regretting it.
Same here.
How is the reliability of the TLR1? I know I've not personally seen or heard of any issues with them but I would be interested to know if anyone here has.
I was thinking that Insight's TLR1 C4 long gun kit would make for a good 12 o'clock setup. Is it short enough so that it won't be in the way of the sights when placed on the 12 o'clock rail?
I was thinking of using it on the front rail at 12 o'clcock on my KAC MRE handguard and putting the tape switch at 12 o'clock right behind the FSB so it can be activated with the thumb of either hand.
Other than the mount, which is a non-issue with me, and a few more options for remote switching I can't see anything the X300 does better than the TLR1 c4.
Here's a pic I found of the TLR1 C$ long gun kit.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/TLR1_C4_Long_Gun_kit_01.jpg
YJ I ordered up a TLR-1 from the link posted above and when it comes in it will get mounted on a 9.0 rail in front of a Troy flipup sight. I don't think I'll need the tape switch at all but I think it depends on overall length of rail and forward hand positioning.
The TLR1 does not block the irons but its pretty darned close.
This was with a troy flip up and an LMT fixed front.
Magsz,
Thanks that what I wanted to know!
Rob,
I look forward to seeing your TLR1 setup. I think the setup you mentioned sounds good because you can do without the remote switch.
In my case the front rail on the KAC MRE is pretty far from FSB. I also wouldn't want my thumb laying accross a hot FSB while trying to activate the light!:eek:
http://www.huntingpictures.net/data/560/95P3140003a.JPG
. . .my experience has taught me that when I vary from Surefire I always wind up regretting it.
. . .my X300s wills stay on my bedside pistol and rifle.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g124/ClarenceLadd/thumbsup.gif No regrets with the SF.X300 and SureFire products here. Then again that's me and Your Methods/Mileage/Money May Vary accordingly so.
too bad the free shipping is over...I would have picked one up. shipping is not $11.99
I run a TLR 1 on a DD 12.0 FSP rail at 12 o'clock. I don't use a tape switch, but you could. The bezel of the light covers about half of the front sight post. You can still get a good sight picture, and if you run an Aimpoint you look well above the light.
SeriousStudent
03-15-09, 13:21
OMB has had the new version TLR-1 on sale for $79.99. It's on backorder at the moment, but if one is being considered a prompt order would be advised. I have a pair of the old model and have no need for another, but dang at $79.99 I'm still tempted. HTH.
Paladin
http://www.ombexpress.com/p_FL229.aspx
They are currently showing back in stock at the moment. I have two of them on backorder, and I hope they ship soon. They still show the $79.99 price.
Got my TLR-1 in today.
On the upside the body is aluminum and it is very bright with a nice hue to the beam.
On the down side, it doesn't have the same "push forward for momentary on" that the Surefire does, and the mount isn't as QD as the Surefire solution. You have to unscrew the thumbscrew on the side, and then the mount is a spring-loaded clamp that you tighten down with the thumb screw after it's attached.
The bezel sticks up high enough that I can see it in the bottom of my Troy front sight.
I'll get some more pics, and comparison pics, this weekend hopefully. Is it worth $80? maybe. I dislike that it's not as easy to move around from gun to gun, but at half the price maybe it doesn't need to. I also dislike that it doesn't switch the same way as the Surefire, but again if it's half the price then maybe it doesn't need to.
Rob, I would say your just trained to the touch of the surefire and the TLR-1 is not it. I use the TLR-1 and I bet I would feel odd with a Surefire at first. Like you said, give your little TLR-1 a bit of time, it might grow on you. I carry my rifle out on my property at night and I know the light makes some great light and stays focused and very bright looking out at a distance. For the money, it is a jewel in the rough!
I have no doubt that there are better lights, but I don't know if there are better lights for the money.
PALADIN-hgwt
03-19-09, 20:31
xxxxx
I just received my shipment. Picked up 2 of them.
Initial impression is that the X300 has a much sturdier feeling switch. Only time will tell if the TLR switch will hold up. Suprisingly I really like the method of attachment. I think this light might end up being a great bang for the buck.
I received my TLR-1 C4 (thanks for the link @ $79.99 w/free shipping).
I'm liking it so far. Nice and bright, clean with good throw. The orange peel reflector and new LED emitter look really good.
I have it mounted at 12 o'clock on a PRI Rifle Length tube. I can activate the switch with the thumb of my support hand. The mounting system is sufficient.
Great bang for the buck.
Mine arrived today (ok, technically yesterday) as well. It seems like a fantastic little light for the money. I have mine mounted at 3 o'clock on a DD Omega 9.0. The switch is very easy to manipulate with my left hand index finger.
Time'll tell how well it holds up, but my initial impression is favorable.
I got a TLR-1 as well while OMB was offering free shipping. So far so good.
The bad news is that I just got an email today from OMB Express saying that as of Sunday at midnight the price is going up from 79.99 to 99.99. Just a heads-up in case you want one, because you might want to get it before Sunday unless you can find another source.
Would you by chance know if there is any free shipping offer at this time?
I got a TLR-1 as well while OMB was offering free shipping. So far so good.
The bad news is that I just got an email today from OMB Express saying that as of Sunday at midnight the price is going up from 79.99 to 99.99. Just a heads-up in case you want one, because you might want to get it before Sunday unless you can find another source.
Would you by chance know if there is any free shipping offer at this time?
Yes, at OMB Express! Only until midnight on Sunday.
Buckaroo
Yes, at OMB Express! Only until midnight on Sunday.
Buckaroo
I ordered and no freee shipping $12 for USPS or UPS grnd
I ordered and no freee shipping $12 for USPS or UPS grnd
The free shipping offer is over, it was only for a week. They do it from time to time on orders over a certain amount.
I will recommend the TLR-1. (Full disclosure: I have never used the X300)
The only issues I have seen come up with the TLR is that it doesn't switch like a Surefire, and doesn't quick detach. If you can live with those two facts, get the TLR1.
I can and did.
The only issues I have seen come up with the TLR is that it doesn't switch like a Surefire, and doesn't quick detach. If you can live with those two facts, get the TLR1.
I have more, just haven't gotten to it yet.
I got a few and while it is no Surefire X300, it is a great small, functional light for $80.00. So far, I like it.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/m4_005.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/m4_006.jpg
I've only been shooting the Daniel Defense M4 for about a month with the TLR-1 on it, no problem. The TLR-1 was on my Beretta Vertec for about a year before that. I need to get another TLR-1 :) I'm too low speed to know that the light is inferior to other products costing almost 3 times more.
Sam, try moving that light to the right side of the rifle and position it so that your thumb can come off the vert grip and naturally hit the light switch. Mine is like that and it is a very natural position. I can move just a single digit within it's natural arc and have the light at my control.
Try it on the left side so you can swing your pointer finger at it. See if one of those positions feels better.
Where you have it up there so high, you can not hit the switch without totally giving up control of your rifle to do it.
Sam, try moving that light to the right side of the rifle and position it so that your thumb can come off the vert grip and naturally hit the light switch. Mine is like that and it is a very natural position. I can move just a single digit within it's natural arc and have the light at my control.
Try it on the left side so you can swing your pointer finger at it. See if one of those positions feels better.
Where you have it up there so high, you can not hit the switch without totally giving up control of your rifle to do it.
His light placement is good enough for LAV ;).
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/sh/large/_Q8P9902.jpg
Sam, try moving that light to the right side of the rifle and position it so that your thumb can come off the vert grip and naturally hit the light switch. Mine is like that and it is a very natural position. I can move just a single digit within it's natural arc and have the light at my control.
Try it on the left side so you can swing your pointer finger at it. See if one of those positions feels better.
Where you have it up there so high, you can not hit the switch without totally giving up control of your rifle to do it.
I appreciate the tip Larry.
It works for me in that location just fine. I use a high thumb hold on the VFG and it works.
ballistic,
Thanks for the picture of LAV. It was LAV and other esteem members here that showed me the technique, I am not quick enough to come up with it on my own. The technique is ingenious though, eliminate tape switch and other switches, it puts the light at a location neutral to right or left handed users and neutral to left handed or right handed corners/walls.
I appreciate the tip Larry.
It works for me in that location just fine. I use a high thumb hold on the VFG and it works.
ballistic,
Thanks for the picture of LAV. It was LAV and other esteem members here that showed me the technique, I am not quick enough to come up with it on my own. The technique is ingenious though, eliminate tape switch and other switches, it puts the light at a location neutral to right or left handed users and neutral to left handed or right handed corners/walls.
Exactly. That's why my new TLR-1 C4 is parked at 12 o'clock too on my HD/trunk gun.
Damn, I just got another one of these in the mail. I guess I ordered more than I thought.
Now just need to figure out to mount one on my shotgun.
Damn, I just got another one of these in the mail. I guess I ordered more than I thought.
.
I'll give you $80 for it :)
I'll give you $80 for it :)
lol :D
His light placement is good enough for LAV ;).
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/sh/large/_Q8P9902.jpg
Doesn't that high-in-front-of-front-sight placement actually obscure a portion of the front sight? Sure looks like it does.
Just wondering...
I'm really not a fan of the Surefire 'push' momentary system. For me, the best one so far, ergonomically, has been the SSL from Insight, but the TLR-1 Cree is SURE nice on the FauxSBR. I'm also running it at the 12oc position in front of the FSP and yes I can see a bit of the FSP, but not enough to discourage its position.
*cockpunch* You know who you are and why. ;)
Doesn't that high-in-front-of-front-sight placement actually obscure a portion of the front sight? Sure looks like it does.
Just wondering...
No it doesn't obscure the part of the front sight that matters, if you mount the light directly to the rail just like that picture of LAV and my picture. The front post is visible if you desire to use the irons.
Don't use the Larue QD mount with the Surefire X200/300 or the TLR-1, the QD mount raises the light and blocks your view in front of the iron.
I view the TLR vs. Surefire vs. Insight debate like I do the Bushmaster vs. LMT vs. Colt. Does one do the job "just as good as" the other. Maybe. I think Surefire is the industry standard on lights for a reason. I don't think you should base the decision on price alone, or based upon the amount of lumen output. Surefire lights are typically bombproof, and they have great customer service. The TLR light is a great light, I just prefer to have the quick disconnect feature of the Surefire. The 12 o'clock position for the light in front of the front sight is a great place, and I find this is makes the push on mechanism of the Surefire X300 and advantage. I'm going to be doing this exact thing with mine. I had a scout light on mine, but I think I'm sold on the 12 o'clock mount in front of the flip-up/FSB.
I prefer the Surefire X300 over the TLR for two reasons:
The TLR has a higher profile than the X300, so if you plan to mount it in the 12 o'clock position, it will be more visible in your sight picture than the X300. You will still be able to see the front sight post, but the TLR does block more of your sight picture than the X300 does.
I also dont care for the activation switch on the TLR.
If you decide on ordering the TLR, atleast make sure that you get the latest version with the upgraded LED, as it is much brighter than the original.
Just received my improved TLR-1 with the C4 lamp module from OMB.
Just received my improved TLR-1 with the C4 lamp module from OMB.
How do you like it?
I'm not Sam, but I just bought two of the TLR-1 C4's from OMB also, and although I've not even decided HOW to mount them yet, I'm impressed with the quality of the unit and the quality of the beam. These are the first Streamlights I've bought, but they sure LOOK comparable to the several Surefires that I've bought over the past few years.
Skip
How do you like it?
SAM I am :) I like the light just fine, it's my second one. One goes on the DD-M4, the other goes on the Beretta Vertec.
OMB's Express Police Supply
Free shipping on all orders over $59.99 on Web Orders
Hurry, this offer expires Friday night.
http://www.ombexpress.com/c_1/p_FL229.aspx
my solution to the light in the way of the sight----
this is what I did to my LMT, and then moved it to my beretta cx4.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn346/gunguyshots/P3270004.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn346/gunguyshots/P3270005.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn346/gunguyshots/P3270003.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn346/gunguyshots/tlr-1onberetta.jpg
SWATcop556
04-09-09, 02:06
When I worked for the municipal police department here I was not issued a weapon mounted light for my pistol. I purchased a X200B and ran it for three years.
About two years ago I left the PD to work patrol at the Sheriff's Office. I was issued a Streamlight TLR-1. I then made the tactical team and my round count per month went from 200+ to 8-900+ all with the light mounted. While I was at night qualifications the light went TU. Batteries changed out but still no go. Called Steamlight and sent them the light back. This was July 08.................after calls to Streamlight still no light. To this day I still have not received the light back (glad it was department issued).
I now carry the X300 (personal purchase) and I will not deviate from Surefire again. I learned my lesson. I'm glad others like their lights I'm just giving my personal experience.
The Surefire may be more expensive but I look at it like I am paying for the customer service as well as a top-notch light.
Same here.
Yep. I've got a couple cheap LED/AA handhelds that I use around the house but all of my weapon lights, carry light, and SHTF gear are Surefire only.
E1
2-E2e
4-G2
9P
X200B
2-X300
618
M951
Classic Series 6volt
Comparison on my site (http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8301/106721.html), but here's a couple of teaser photos for comparison of the two.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/website/X300%20VS%20TLR1/800/X300mountedCustom.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/website/X300%20VS%20TLR1/800/TLR-1mountedCustom.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/website/X300%20VS%20TLR1/800/PAIRSTARBOARDCustom.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/website/X300%20VS%20TLR1/800/PAIRPORTCustom.jpg
Having had both the Streamlight and Surefire I think there are two main differences. One is how they attach to the gun. The Streamlight has the thumb screw and the Surefire slides and locks onto the rail. I have never had a problem with the streamlight, however I have seen and heard of the light coming off because the screw loosened up. Also I have heard of (not seen personally) some people torque down the screw so much on a Glock that it caused malfunctions. The other main difference is how the momentary switch works. The Streamlight pushes up or down and the Surefire pushes forward. This is probably more of a personal preference than anything. The light output on both is more than adequate for what it is designed. As for quality and customer service I think the Surefire has the edge on that one.
My only experience with a Surefire light is a 6P handheld but I just purchased a TLR-1 last week. So far I am impressed with it. It is incredibly bright. I did some unscientific tests with it and my 6P (standing in the garage in the dark) The Streamlight seemed brighter than my Surefire which surprised me a little. I'm not a light geek so maybe I'm easily impressed.
Some have complained about the switch. Not having used a weapon light before and got used to a different method I do not find it a problem. On the downside I'm not impressed with the mounting method, ie. the thumbscrew. If your going to be swapping back and forth between guns it might become a real pain. As it will reside primarily on my HD handgun it's not a dealbreaker for me.
Perhaps a Surefire would be a better quality rig. I may end up buying one down the road for another gun. However I am quite satisfied with the TLR-1, especially given the price. Time will tell how it will hold up over the long run.
The switch on the surefire is vastly superior from an ergonomics/intuitive standpoint and is better made.
Insight Procyon
Better switch ergo's (to me) than either the SF or SL.
More light output than the SF, at 100.00 less.
Only about 25.00 more than the TLR-1 with comparable light output.
And you get features like strobe. Street price seems to be around 120.00.
Insight Procyon
Better switch ergo's (to me) than either the SF or SL.
More light output than the SF, at 100.00 less.
Only about 25.00 more than the TLR-1 with comparable light output.
And you get features like strobe. Street price seems to be around 120.00.
I notice you don't mention longevity.
How many rounds do you have downrange on one? Several of our shooters have told me that they have encountered problems with the Procyon mounted on a carbine.
FWIW, I hate that strobe effect. People keep showing me handheld lights with that "feature" and I feel like I'm going to have a seizure.
I notice you don't mention longevity.
How many rounds do you have downrange on one? Several of our shooters have told me that they have encountered problems with the Procyon mounted on a carbine.
Well, the only lights that seem to give me issues are Surefires. Case in point, one of their XT07's broke on a door frame and I pointed it out to the SF guys, who told me to send it in and I'd get one of the metal lipped ones when they were ready. That was a year ago, still no switch. Broken product and slow response isn't the exclusive realm of any one vendor.
http://www.ttellc.net/fun/xt07.jpg
I've had no issues with my Insight lights. Heck my 2 SSL-1's are built like tanks and have survived extended pistol and rifle use just fine (the initial light on my PWS was one of my SSL-1s for about the first 1/3 of its time with me). But I will admit my hands on time with the Procyon and a rifle is limited to a couple of fam-fires and I probably should have stated that up front. Regardless, I've had good luck with all three makers overall, and even exceptional usage out of some no name lights.
FWIW, I hate that strobe effect. People keep showing me handheld lights with that "feature" and I feel like I'm going to have a seizure.
I think that's kinda the whole purpose of pointing it at the bad guy. ;)
NCPatrolAR
06-03-09, 20:10
Insight Procyon
Better switch ergo's (to me) than either the SF or SL.
More light output than the SF, at 100.00 less.
Only about 25.00 more than the TLR-1 with comparable light output.
And you get features like strobe. Street price seems to be around 120.00.
Gaaaaa; the Procyon.....gag me with some 123 Lithiums.
We've been using the Procyon for just over a year and I have yet to warm up to the light. We've had issues with the lights flying off of guns during firing strings, rails breaking during install, etc.
I dont care for the independent movement of the arms (which has given me problems during actual warrant services). The arms also need to be stiffened IMO due to very light pressure activating the light.
Another issue is that the Procyon has a shorter battery life than the X300.
I think it is telling that while we are stuck with the Procyon, everyone else here is using the X300. :mad:
Gaaaaa; the Procyon.....gag me with some 123 Lithiums.
*snip*
I think it is telling that while we are stuck with the Procyon, everyone else here is using the X300. :mad:
Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? :D
Interesting, I wonder what changed so radically between some of their former lines and now? I've only got the one, obviously, but now I'm wondering if its jinxed.
NCPatrolAR
06-03-09, 22:47
Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? :D
Interesting, I wonder what changed so radically between some of their former lines and now? I've only got the one, obviously, but now I'm wondering if its jinxed.
I think it was more a flavor of the month thing with someone who is very popular in the agency. Last I heard, he was telling everyone that the 300 is the best light out there and thats the reason everyone (except my team) is using them.
Little to no use on the carbine and you're ready to proclaim it the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I can't help but wonder, what experience do you have with the light in any actual use?
Little to no use on the carbine and you're ready to proclaim it the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I can't help but wonder, what experience do you have with the light in any actual use?
At no point have I gushed 'oh golly gosh it's just the bestest thing since sliced bread, pinkie ring promise'.:rolleyes: The OP asked a question and I replied based on the fact that I now own all three lights in question (X300, TLR-1/C4, Procyon), and for features, versus price and weighting usability, have enjoyed the Procyon.. If other people have had poor luck with them, then so be it. I'm glad NC was here to provide that perspective.
I practice low/no light shooting with regularity, and I'm lucky to have a local pistol club that has low/no light stages as regular part of their competition using an indoor range. I'm always happy to explain my reasoning, but let's keep the disingenuous 'I can't help but wonder' commentary to a minimum.
It's not disingenuous, and you still didn't really answer the question. Thanks though, the dodging is all the answer I need.
It's not disingenuous, and you still didn't really answer the question. Thanks though, the dodging is all the answer I need.
What part did I not answer to your satisfaction Rob? You seem to be taking this very personally for some reason. Two other people, other than yourself have spoken about the Procyon and you've not said a word about their opinion.
Why so serious?
I have to agree with Rob. I think it is unwise and venturing in to dangerous territory to make a recommendation of a light that you have only used for familiarization fire. While you may have experience with other lights, why are you recommending a light you have very little use with over those other lights, when a limited evaluation has been done. This is barely better than me taking a DPMS carbine out of the box performing a function check and claiming that up till this point it has functioned flawlessly. That frame of reference would be very limited.
I have to agree with Rob. I think it is unwise and venturing in to dangerous territory to make a recommendation of a light that you have only used for familiarization fire. While you may have experience with other lights, why are you recommending a light you have very little use with over those other lights, when a limited evaluation has been done. This is barely better than me taking a DPMS carbine out of the box performing a function check and claiming that up till this point it has functioned flawlessly. That frame of reference would be very limited.
I really do like it and have used it a fair amount on the pistol with better results than NC, but as rough as I treat stuff, I'm not doing it daily like he is. I think what I'll do it put it on my Colt upper and run it there some more too just to get more rifle perspective. I feel that I've been forthcoming about my experiences with the Procyon, and open dialogue from opposing points of view is what makes this a good board.
What does "a fair amount" equate to?
To break it down as much as I can remember:
With the SSL-1s on pistols, I'd say easily over 10,000rds of 9mm and .45 (classes practice and a couple of pistol competitions), with about 10% of that being actual low/no light shooting. On the rifle, eh, far less, maybe 1000 rounds total.
I haven't had the Procyon nearly as long, a couple of months, So about a 1000rds of pistol give or take and about 300 or so on the rifle. It hasn't failed or given me any problems during normal or low light shooting.
Is that what you were trying to ask?
If I can remember to do it this weekend, I'll post some of my observations on actual use of the TLR-1. I need to tally my books, but I have somewhere between 3k-5k rounds down the pipe on one model, and own 3 others. Two are the newest version, while 2 are the original. For average use, by the average user, I think the light flat out works and the differences between the TLR-1 switch mechanism as compared to the Surefire version is likely a non-issue for the vast majority of casual users (i.e. those not running into dark homes every night using the light to clear rooms and/or identify targets), and particularly at an almost $200 increase in price for the Surefire.
Elmer Fudd
06-09-09, 22:34
I have used the M3, TLR-1, and X200 on rifles and carbines. The major problem I have with these pistol lights on a carbine is how easy it is to have an AD with the light. Bad news for military/LEO folks, where lives might be at stake on a patrol, etc.
I am switching to lights with a lockout capability to avoid this (although I am a civvy). I dont see many people mention this issue, but I notice trainers like Pat Rogers don't like them for this reason.
I have used the M3, TLR-1, and X200 on rifles and carbines. The major problem I have with these pistol lights on a carbine is how easy it is to have an AD with the light. Bad news for military/LEO folks, where lives might be at stake on a patrol, etc.
I am switching to lights with a lockout capability to avoid this (although I am a civvy). I dont see many people mention this issue, but I notice trainers like Pat Rogers don't like them for this reason.
If they are mounted at 12 oclock against a front sight, it is hard to accidentally activate them while sneaking around.
Elmer Fudd
06-10-09, 12:44
If they are mounted at 12 oclock against a front sight, it is hard to accidentally activate them while sneaking around.
Even then, if you let the weapon hang on the sling while doing something else you could get an AD. To me, the inability to switch the light off has become a requirement for my personal carbines. I will leave them on the home defense and wife's carbines since they have standard handguards (I use the Streamlight accessory rail) and the M3/TLR-1 positioned at 10 o'clock to use with a magwell hold.
A lot of people seem to like the 12 o'clock mount for the light, but I don't really have the hardware set up to use it, and it seems a little far forward for my grip, not to mention way too far forward for the wife.
toasterlocker
06-11-09, 00:18
I can't speak for rifles, but for use on a handgun, I was happy to ditch the X300 for a Procyon.
I'll see if I can explain the issue with the switches I had. I don't know how well I can articulate it in writing, it is easier to show than to tell the problem I had.
The switches on my X300 were so stiff it caused some major problems. First, I couldn't use my index finger to flip the switches during one-handed night drills. Second, I normally use my weakhand thumb for light activation when shooting two handed, but I found that didn't work well for me either. I felt I had to apply so much pressure to activate/deactivate the switches that it would throw off my aim unless I pushed/pulled with my strong hand to correct, which felt very unnatural. Very awkward, whether using the press forward momentary or the flip switch for constant. I've heard others online haven't had such stiff switches, but for me it was a deal killer.
It was embarrassing to have the supposed "best" light and be the only person at training that couldn't turn their light off and on with ease. No such problems with TLRs or Procyons, which reinforces for me that my issue wasn't a training problem, but an equipment problem.
The other issues I have with the X300 are a matter of preference. I didn't care for the beam color compared to TLRs or Procyons (my X300 seemed to have this weird green tint to it, while the others seemed whiter and more crisp.) Also, the Surefire optic seemed better adapted for throwing light, but for interior building searches, I like that the Procyon and TLR have a little more flood for lighting up the whole room.
So with all of that together, the only real advantage I could see of the X300 is the marginally better runtime. Is the runtime $100-$150 better? That is something you have to ask yourself. My answer was no.
I prefer the TLR-1 C4. One was recently tested in an integrating sphere and put out over 150 OTF Lumens. :D
Hey Diverge, is your TLR1 an older version or is it the new C4 Led?
Hey Diverge, is your TLR1 an older version or is it the new C4 Led?
Not my pics. Thought it was the C4 LED but maybe not. I'll remove the links. Maybe someone here skilled with taking beam shots can do some.
I've been on the fence for a while and ended up getting a x300 yesterday for 198 shipped. PM me if you're interested in the link.
-c
I just bought 60 of the TLR-1 with the c4 led for my agency. I tested everything out thier and the two swe considered in the end were the TLR1 and the surefire X300. THe TLRs are brighter and cost close to $100 less per light. Streamlights srevice has been top notch so far . We went with fire for our M4 and Benelli shotgun lights.
For holster use, does anybody know if the TLR-1 and the X300 will fit in the same holster?
Streamlight TLR-1 (http://streamlight.com/product/product.aspx?pid=80)
$100+/-
Dimensions:
Weight: 4.18 oz.
LED Output: 135 lumens
Run Time: 2.5 hours
Waterproof: 1 Meter
Insight Procyon XTI (http://www.insightlights.com/products-procyon.htm)
$120 +/-
Dimensions: 1.6” x 1.5” x 3.2”
Weight: 4.0 oz. w/Batteries
LED Output: 125+ Lumens
Run Time: 90 Minutes
Waterproof: At 5 Meters / 15 Feet
Surefire X300 (http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&strfnbr=6&prrfnbr=24462&sesent=0,0&search_id=1303413)
$200+/-
Dimensions: 1.39" x 1.43" x 3.53"
Weight: 3.7 ounces (with batteries)
LED Output: 110 lumens
Run Time: 2.4 hours
Waterproof: 22 meters
In theory, all of the above could be construed to mean that the X300 is the worst buy. Dimmer, more expensive... but my experience has taught me that when I vary from Surefire I always wind up regretting it.
But, given that in theory you could buy one of each of the competition for the price of one X300 at MAP, I can certainly understand the temptation. I'm actually somewhat tempted to pick up one of each, but my X300s wills stay on my bedside pistol and rifle.
I agree completely with the bold.
Just recently, during a night fire course, there were 2 streamlights that went down in the group. An m3 and m6. No idea if they were the "x" models or not. Didn't look that close.
One just shut off. Smacking it a few times got it back on but it wasn't consistent. The other, the battery door wouldn't stay shut.
Didn't share that to pass judgment, just wanted to give a recent experience. I've personally never seen any mounted light go down, streamlight or otherwise, so this was strange to have 2 go down in less than 2 hours.
Concerning surefire; my only complaint is battery life on a few of their models. Frankly, it's a damn big complaint due to the fact I don't want to be carrying a collection of spare batteries but..... They just work, which I like.
NCPatrolAR
07-03-09, 23:30
For holster use, does anybody know if the TLR-1 and the X300 will fit in the same holster?
For the most part. When it comes to concealment type holsters the 300 will fit in TLR holsters but the opposite isnt true.
Thx guys . . . . I'm leaning toward the TRL-1
Slugger
A little thread revival but I'm in the process of trying to decide which to go with, the X300 or TLR-1. After some run time on the TLR-1 how have they been holding up? Any problems noted so far? The X300 appears to be the better light from everything I've ready but buying 2 of the Streamlights for the same price is tempting. Comparison video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S4qRZBf-pw
I've got both the TLR-1 and the newer TLR-1S. I've had the
TLR-1 for about a year, no issues so far great light for both
indoor and outdoor. Pretty good throw. The TLR-1S is
brighter, light looks more like the 170lumen X300 in that
comparison video.
I usually have one of them mounted when I go to the
range (which is quite often of late). Hope to do a pistol
class with them next month.
PS- I have plans to get a Surefire x300 soon anyway, to mount
on my third G19, just to try one out. I want weaponlights
available for all my handguns.:D
My vote goes for the X300. I just tend to like it better than my TLR. To my aging eyes...it just seems like there's more light from the X300.
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