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mhanna91
06-23-09, 15:18
The slide release lever on my Glock 30 is super tough to use. Is this something common in Glock pistols or what? I just got the gun used for $400, but it is fairly new. The previous owner said he bought it new about a year and a half ago, and the pistol appears to have not been shot at all. So is this a problem?

citizensoldier16
06-23-09, 16:53
Do you have the empty magazine in the gun when you are attempting to use the slide release? If so, the mag spring may be tight. Load up the mag to max capacity and let it sit for a week or so.

If the mag is removed from the gun, and the release is still tight, check the mag release notch for any metal. Make sure it is smooth. If not, a call to Glock may be in order.

LOKNLOD
06-23-09, 17:09
Maybe it's just me, but I find that the subcompact Glocks that use the telescoping 2-piece style recoil spring are much stiffer and therefore harder to release the slide with the lever (unless you're fighting an empty mag pushing up, the clamping force of the recoil spring pulling the slide forward is what you're counteracting). Example being my G26 is much harder to drop the slide on than my G34 or G19. You could just be noticing the difference?

1SFG
06-23-09, 17:21
Perhaps Glock is attempting to enforce the view that releasing the slide via the slide lock is not the way to go? In all seriousness, perhaps you ought to look into an extended slide release. I own 7 Glocks and have had no trouble using the standard slide lock to lock back the slide. But I've never attempted to release the slide using that part, so can't comment as to whether the reverse is true.

mhanna91
06-23-09, 17:27
Well this is the only Glock I have ever delt with other than a G17 a few months back that I only shot 3 rounds through, and I did not notice a hard slide release on that, so maybe this stiff ass spring setup is doing it. And just so you know what kind of trouble Im having, it is not just a little hard to activate, you would think the darned thing was stuck if it was your first time handling the weapon(which I did). It actually hurts my thumb. And about calling Glock, Im not sure how far I would get with that since I am not the origional purchaser of the pistol. I suppose I could give it a shot, how is there customer service by the way?

ToddG
06-23-09, 20:51
citizensoldier16 pointed out the most obvious potential problem, if you're trying to drop the slide on an empty magazine -- especially one with an unused mag spring -- then you're fighting more than just the slide release spring.

Beyond that, either you're not pressing on the lever properly (which I've seen more often than you'd think), there is a problem with the spring, or there is a dimensional problem with the lever or slide.

citizensoldier16
06-24-09, 03:12
about calling Glock, Im not sure how far I would get with that since I am not the origional purchaser of the pistol. I suppose I could give it a shot, how is there customer service by the way?

Their customer service has been overwhelmingly positive the few times I've called them. Before you call Glock, I'd start by determining if your problem is a tight mag spring, a tight recoil spring, or a machining issue. If its a spring issue, these can be solved by loading the mag or shooting about 50 rounds through the gun. Springs will naturally be tight on a new or unfired weapon, and will take some time to loosen up.

Keep us updated.

mhanna91
06-24-09, 12:57
There doesn't appear to be any machining defects on it, and I'm pretty sure Im using the lever correctly, so I am going to give those springs some time to relax and see what happens. The last (10th) round is a little tough to get in the mag, so I bet thats what it is. Ill let you guys know how that works! Thank You!

markm
06-24-09, 13:14
The glock is much easier to charge by just using the slide grab method. I don't use the slide stop to release the slide.

ToddG
06-24-09, 13:39
The glock is much easier to charge by just using the slide grab method.

Next time I see Dave Sevigny, I'll let him know he's doing it wrong. :cool:

markm
06-24-09, 13:56
Next time I see Dave Sevigny, I'll let him know he's doing it wrong. :cool:

Doesn't he run that city slicker G34? Those have the extended slide stops if my memory serves me.

I've seen Vickers too uses the slide stop. I DIDN'T say it was wrong to use the unwashed method. I just said it's easier for me to grab and go. (with the standard slide stop being so slim on the glock)

ToddG
06-24-09, 14:17
Doesn't he run that city slicker G34? Those have the extended slide stops if my memory serves me.

Dave has more than one Glock, I'm pretty sure. :cool:


I just said it's easier for me to grab and go. (with the standard slide stop being so slim on the glock)
(emphasis mine)

I somehow missed the "for me" part. :p

markm
06-24-09, 14:44
Alright...

"for EVERYONE"! Everyone with a standard slide stop should do it MY WAY. :D

The bigger point being that I didn't say that thumbing the slide stop was "wrong". ;)

I'm anything but graceful. I can fumble **** anything that requires dexterity. If I can accomplish something without messing with a button or lever, I'll take that route every time. Plus, my thumb doesn't reach the slide stop without repositioning the gun in my hand.

citizensoldier16
06-24-09, 19:15
Honestly, my G17 has seen so many rounds that I can literally ram a mag home and the slide will run forward on its own. Kinda nice during IDPA matches...saves me a few hundredths of a second on each reload! :)

Heavy Metal
06-24-09, 22:07
Alright...

"for EVERYONE"! Everyone with a standard slide stop should do it MY WAY. :D

The bigger point being that I didn't say that thumbing the slide stop was "wrong". ;)

I'm anything but graceful. I can fumble **** anything that requires dexterity. If I can accomplish something without messing with a button or lever, I'll take that route every time. Plus, my thumb doesn't reach the slide stop without repositioning the gun in my hand.

Would not the trigger be a lever? Perhaps you should give up shooting and stick to Golf like my goofball brother:D

markm
06-25-09, 10:01
Would not the trigger be a lever? Perhaps you should give up shooting and stick to Golf like my goofball brother:D

I'm worse at GOLF!!

I once watched a student melt down in a timed drill. It might have been a broad, but it's been a while now. Anyway, the student was shooting one of those city slicker Sig Sours for the entire day. And at the end of the day the instructor put a time constraint on the drill which included a mag exchange of some kind.

Anyway, the simple pressure of adding the time constraint caused the student to use the decocker to try to drop the mag in the gun. The student just stood there depressing the decocker with all his/her might and the mag wouldn't come free.

Now I know everyone will say the student wasn't familiar with the weapon and probably doesn't even own any 5.11 pants. But shooters at various levels can lock up and do dumb shit.

Anyhow, that's why I like to keep my weapons manipulations BIG, TRUE, and DUMB ASS proof. Even though I could probably pick up speed on a reload by going to the slide stop. I live in reality. And I realistically don't get enough practice to master that to the point where I'm like LAV.

ToddG
06-25-09, 11:31
Without trying to start the umpteenth debate about this on M4C ...

I've seen plenty of students induce stoppages when "under stress" doing reloads with either an overhand or slingshot technique. Doing it properly requires more finesse then advocates want to admit, and the same person who lacks the skill to hit a little lever under stress (but he can still hit the mag button?) is going to lack the skill to rack the slide reliably.

The difference is that someone who misses the lever just goes for the lever again. Someone who induces a stoppage has caused himself a whole new level of rut-roh when he was already behind the curve.

Impact
06-26-09, 00:56
I like the slingshot method on Glocks. It's been working good for me.

BB01
06-26-09, 02:05
I run the standard release on everything including my 34 (used strictly for uspsa). I personally have never had an issue. I'm more worried about smothering it than not being able to hit it.

I don't know Dave personally but I had a chance to pick his brain a few years ago and, at least at that time, he swapped the extended out for the standard.

In my experience the G30 with the standard slide release is tougher to use and seems to be the nature of the beast with the wider slide.

markm
06-26-09, 09:34
I don't know Dave personally but I had a chance to pick his brain a few years ago and, at least at that time, he swapped the extended out for the standard.

That's what I'd do if I ever got a G34/35. I like how slick the standard Glock is.

Iraqgunz
06-26-09, 10:39
Last time we had this debate I decided to do a completely unscientific test and see which was faster and easier. By far, for me I was much faster reloading and hitting the slide lock than I was grasping the slide. I never missed.

markm
06-26-09, 10:57
Slide stop has definitely got to be quicker.

In one of these previous discussions, I posted that I had the concern with dropping the slide before the mag had been fully seated.

In other words, I've hit the slide stop so close to the time when I pushed the mag home I was wondering if a round got stripped off.

ToddG
06-26-09, 11:42
In other words, I've hit the slide stop so close to the time when I pushed the mag home I was wondering if a round got stripped off.

If you pull the trigger too soon, you might hurt yourself. Might want to be careful the next time you're driving, too ... hitting the gas too soon at a red light could get you killed.

As a general rule, "If I do it wrong it won't be right" is a poor reason. Now on the other hand, if you're saying you question your physical and/or psychological ability to delay hitting the lever until after the magazine is inserted, that is a valid concern for you.

danpass
06-26-09, 12:00
When I had my G19 I quickly learned to go with the slingshot method.

The slide lock was always difficult to use and I preferred not to go with an extended version.


I did go with a GLOCK extended mag release though, had to do it. I rounded off the corners a little bit to smooth it off.

markm
06-26-09, 12:01
if you're saying you question your physical and/or psychological ability to delay hitting the lever until after the magazine is inserted, that is a valid concern for you.

The concern is in a hasty reload if the mag exchange is less than perfect and the mag doesn't insert smoothly with the thumb riding the slide stop, the slide could drop before the mag is seated.

Now I guess you could build muscle memory into not touching the slide stop until the mag is seated? I don't know if that is even addressed in training because we were instructed by the Phx PD instructors who had us using the slide grab method.

ToddG
06-26-09, 12:33
The concern is in a hasty reload if the mag exchange is less than perfect and the mag doesn't insert smoothly with the thumb riding the slide stop, the slide could drop before the mag is seated.

Why are you retaining your empty magazine?


Now I guess you could build muscle memory into not touching the slide stop until the mag is seated? I don't know if that is even addressed in training because we were instructed by the Phx PD instructors who had us using the slide grab method.

I actually "pre-load" the slide release lever, putting my shooting hand thumb on top of it so I can depress it as soon as the magazine is locked in place. How fast & efficiently you can do it is, of course, going to depend on your skill level. The important thing is that no matter how you drop the slide, you don't start advancing the gun back to the target until you've acquired your complete, proper shooting grip with both hands.

But let's assume you do think you've dropped the slide too early. What do you do? You rack the slide ... so now your reload has taken exactly as long as it would have if you had chosen to rack form the beginning.

Possible gain: speed. Possible loss: negligible.

Don't misunderstand me. Yes, you can do it too fast and screw up. I'm certainly not suggesting that using the slide release comes with a written warranty from God. It's just that in my experience watching a fair number of shooters of various skill levels with a wide variety of guns, the people using the slide release are faster, mistakes & all, at achieving the goal: putting rounds on target asap.

markm
06-26-09, 13:16
Why are you retaining your empty magazine?

Cuz they're expensive! Just kidding. I'm not... I just used the wrong terminology.

CoryCop25
06-26-09, 20:30
Glock slide stops are not intended to be pushed down to bring the slide into battery unlike the ar/m-16 platforms. In the Glock armorer's course, they stress the use of the slingshot method. Although new studies show that use of your thumb to release the slide release is NOT a fine motor skill, Glock designed their pistols for the sling shot method. The extended slide stop levers were added later to appeal to the thumb flickers. So long story short Mhanna91, the release is hard cuz it is not the intended use. Other than that, that puppy should run smooth! ENJOY Glock perfection!

ToddG
06-26-09, 23:50
Glock slide stops are not intended to be pushed down to bring the slide into battery unlike the ar/m-16 platforms.

Really? I know they say that. But are the serrations angled for pressing up or down? I just checked my 17/T which has a normal (not extended) slide stop and it's pretty clear to me which way it's primarily intended to be manipulated.


Although new studies show that use of your thumb to release the slide release is NOT a fine motor skill,

Can you provide some documentation or links there? I'd very much like to read such a study.

CoryCop25
06-27-09, 00:24
When we transitioned over to the Glocks (G23) in 2000 my PD sent the instructor (at that time) to Glock in GA. He came back from the school and we had extensive transition training with the pistol and he pounded into our little minds that it was a SLIDE STOP not a slide release. He had to change our old training scars from the S&W 4006's we had because we all used to reach for that beefy slide release. I took a Glock armorer's course in May of this year and the instructor confirmed this. As I sit in my office typing this, I am looking at my issued G22 and the serrations are straight across the slide stop, not showing any specific direction. I teach my officers if it works well for them individually, then do it how it is comfortable. If they can manipulate the slide stop faster than they can slingshot and they do it consistently every time than use it. I have always used the slingshot method with every auto pistol I use so it became second nature for me.
As for the thumb not being a fine motor skill, I was told that in a tactical firearms instructor school that I attended last July and I will contact Mark Peters and or Walt Dunkling, who were the NRA LEAD instructors that week and ask them about it and I will get back to you on that one. If I didn't know them personally, I would not have repeated it with as much confidence as I did without having a reference to back up what I stated.

ToddG
06-27-09, 00:29
Thanks. By conventional developmental psychology standards (which is where "gross" and "fine motor skill" terminology comes from), both racking the slide and using the slide stop/release lever are fine motor skills, as are any movements that require the fingers to articulate.

thopkins22
06-27-09, 00:54
Slight hijack...

So...waving the arms is a gross motor skill, manipulations of the fingers in any way is a fine motor skill?

ToddG
06-27-09, 01:04
So...waving the arms is a gross motor skill, manipulations of the fingers in any way is a fine motor skill?

Yes.

See, e.g., Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_skill) (specifically using the "pincher grasp" as an example of a fine motor skill), babycenter.com (http://www.babycenter.com/404_whats-the-difference-between-fine-and-gross-motor-skills_6562.bc) (movements "that use the small muscles of the fingers, toes, wrists, lips, and tongue").

ToddG
06-27-09, 22:09
I've never fumbled an overhand release that i can recall(Glock/M&P).I still have a hard time imagining how one could.

Things I've seen enough times by enough different people that I consider them commonplace (or at least as commonplace as fumbling/missing the slide release lever, anyway):


failure to grab slide hard enough, slide doesn't get racked at all
failure to grab slide hard enough, slide slips through fingers and gets only partially racked; can result in shooter-induced stoppage
failure to rack the slide all the way back; can result in shooter-induced stoppage
failure to release slide at end of racking movement, riding it forward; can result in shooter-induced stoppage
getting something (glove, finger) stuck between slide and barrel in ejection port; can result in shooter-induced stoppage and/or injury
ungloved hand comes in contact with very hot barrel through ejection port when grabbing slide; can result in injury


Certainly, the odds of these things happening can be minimized with proper training. But then, with proper training, people don't normally fumble the slide release, either. So again it comes down to "all else being equal, which is faster?"

Jerm
06-28-09, 01:13
Yeah,I suppose none of the above are hard to imagine after all.

Now that you mention it...I seem to remember #2 happening to me once wih sweaty/slippery hands many moons ago.

DacoRoman
06-28-09, 13:51
For me also (for the record, a humble civilian shooter), it is noticeably quicker to use the slide release. On the Glock I find it exceedingly easy to hit the slide stop/release with my strong side thumb, or my support thumb for that matter. I do find it just slightly quicker to use the strong thumb on the slide release, as the slide stop is right there, I don't have to change my strong hand firing grip whatsoever, but since I use my support thumb when shooting my HK's and 1911, I have decided to just stick to using my support thumb so as to have some congruency of use across platforms.

I don't really buy the argument that the slide stop/release is too small to manipulate under stress, as long as one has practiced enough to have the necessary proprioception/muscle memory to do so effectively. But once this becomes an automatism it should be no more difficult to consistently hit right, than say, activating that vexing stock Glock magazine release :)

Anyway the argument that says that the potential for botching the sling shot release method and possibly causing a jam is more of an issue than missing the slide release, for me speaks volumes, again especially if one has trained to make hitting the slide release (just as one trains to hit the mag release, sweep the safety off, etc.) second nature.

But I do understand that Glock recommends using the slingshot method, but my question is: why exactly? Do they ever say?

What are the negative outcomes of doing so, mechanically speaking? Is it that Glock considers the slide "lock" too flimsy and not equipped to handle the wear? Do they think that their slide lock notch will receive excessive wear on it over time, either way causing failures of the slide to lock back?

If they do consider it a mechanical taboo, to use the "stop" as a release, then why offer an extended release that will presumably be used as a release?

Or are they just being paternalistic and steering us to their perceived superior way of handling a pistol? No attitude intended, I'm really just wondering. :confused:

ToddG
06-28-09, 14:23
But I do understand that Glock recommends using the slingshot method, but my question is: why exactly? Do they ever say?

Early Glock slides would sometimes be softer than normal, a defect which was masked by the ultra-hard tenifer finish. But over time the tenifer would wear and the slide lock lever would begin chewing into the slide. This process was greatly accelerated by using the slide lock lever to drop the slide. So in a very HK/MP5-esque manner, Glock decided to rewrite proper technique rather than admit to a deficiency with its gun.

Of course, Glock has long since addressed the underlying problem and now countless agencies and competitive shooters use the slide lock lever as a slide release lever. But the formal protocol is still deeply ingrained in Glock corporate culture and thus their armorer school instructors still often (though apparently not always) insist that you rack the slide to be 'tactical' ...

DacoRoman
06-28-09, 18:35
Early Glock slides would sometimes be softer than normal, a defect which was masked by the ultra-hard tenifer finish. But over time the tenifer would wear and the slide lock lever would begin chewing into the slide. This process was greatly accelerated by using the slide lock lever to drop the slide. So in a very HK/MP5-esque manner, Glock decided to rewrite proper technique rather than admit to a deficiency with its gun.

Of course, Glock has long since addressed the underlying problem and now countless agencies and competitive shooters use the slide lock lever as a slide release lever. But the formal protocol is still deeply ingrained in Glock corporate culture and thus their armorer school instructors still often (though apparently not always) insist that you rack the slide to be 'tactical' ...

very interesting.. thanks for the explanation