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warpigM-4
06-29-09, 23:54
I have been looking to get me a Sig p220 Carry or a SAO p220
I have never carried a SAO can anyone with some back ground with this give me some input?.would this be a good choice for a carry weapon?thanks

kmrtnsn
06-30-09, 00:10
I am not a proponent of SA, locked and cocked carry a la 1911 style pistols with which one could lump the P220SAO. There are many here who favor that carry system, Many of them also think it is okay to carry in bars and have a beer or two, go figure. Under stress, when your pucker factor is way up and your fine motor skills have left town, simpler is better. Under these circumstances I don't even like de-cockers like the DA/SA P220 Carry. If you really want a P220 as a DEFENSIVE carry pistol then I would recommend a SIG P220DAK or a DAO. If you want it as a range gun or a target gun, then get the SAO. If you are very comfortable with the SIG DA/SA system and the use of their de-cocker then go ahead and get the Carry model.

Pesty0311
06-30-09, 02:54
I'm a big fan of SA cocked and locked carry and I don't think you should mix booze and firearms. That's the ****ing stupidest shit I've read in a while :rolleyes:

Its another step before you squeze the trigger not ****ing rocket science. Its easier to learn the trigger..and its easier to shoot well if you do not have allot of time/money/experience with handguns and for ammunition. Its also personal.. go shoot one and decide for you.

JSandi
06-30-09, 03:56
There are many here who favor that carry system, Many of them also think it is okay to carry in bars and have a beer or two, go figure.

:confused::confused::confused:

LDM
06-30-09, 07:25
I recently purchased a SIG 220 SAO.
I have been a 1911 guy for a while, so the manual of arms is familiar. For folks worried about carrying cocked & locked (?), the safety is very positive and on the stiff side.
I have not finished trials before carrying, but first outing it functioned perfectly through about 300 rounds. My gut says this one is gong to be a keeper and a favorite.
The one hiccup I had was intermittent failure to lock back. On reflection, it was my fault. I shoot 1911's with thumb over the thumb safety. Doing this with the 220 results in light contact with the slide release. This contact was just enough to hamper the engagement of the slide release.
My 220 has the external extractor, which is relatively new for this model. There were some 220's in recent years with internal extractors that gave problems, likely from a metal tempering issue. The forum dedicated to SIGs has some reports about this issue, which had been intermittent. Given the choice, which I did have, I opted for the external.
Presently there are no alternative grip panels for the SAO. Hogue may bring some out someday (sigh).
The grip is what I'd call medium large, so I strongly recommend anyone considering one, handle one first.
Warren makes rear sights that fit this model. Although the factory sights are good.
I have not owned a SIG since the 90's, although I have always had an affinity for them. The whole DA/SA transition thing gave me problems, although in fairness I believe it is a training thing. But this 220 SAO is a very nice package.

Aray
06-30-09, 09:40
There are many here who favor that carry system, Many of them also think it is okay to carry in bars and have a beer or two, go figure.

That seems to be questionable analogical inference IMHO.

buzz_knox
06-30-09, 10:22
As always, you need to handle (and hopefully test fire) the weapon before you buy it. I've fondled the 220 SAO and found it wasn't suited to , even without an opportunity to shoot it. When I dropped the safety, the edge of the safety trapped a piece of my thumb between the safety and the slide release. It happened consistently and was only stopped when I changed my grip on the weapon. It's not really a big deal in the cosmic scheme of things, but it was a distraction and I know the SAO would not be the first weapon I'd want to train with, which would have relegated it to safe queen status had I bought it sight unseen.

You may not have the same issue due to your grip or hand size, or it might not bother you at all even if it occurs. It's just something you might want to take into consideration.

ToddG
06-30-09, 10:26
The one hiccup I had was intermittent failure to lock back. On reflection, it was my fault. I shoot 1911's with thumb over the thumb safety. Doing this with the 220 results in light contact with the slide release. This contact was just enough to hamper the engagement of the slide release.

The issue here is that with a SAO gun, the proper way to grip the pistol is with your thumb riding the safety. If you habituate your grip so that you are always on top of the safety as you shoot, you dramatically decrease the odds of (a) forgetting to disengage the safety and (b) inadvertently activating the safety during the firing cycle.

I was never a fan of the SAO SIGs because the safety lever blocked my ability to reach the slide release lever.

Bob Reed
06-30-09, 11:18
Hello,

I've owned many different makes & models of pistols down thru the years, and cannot understand why anyone, when given a choice, would choose any manual of arms over a single-action automatic.

In fact, I've sold all my pistols that were Not single-action only, in order to aquire more single-action automatics.

The M1911 & The Browning High Power are Totally Safe when carried in Condition One, and I'd imagine that the single-action Sig is as well.

There are photos of a cut-away 1911 in the following link that shows how the safety totally blocks the sear, and the safety also blocks the sear in a very simular fashion on The Browning High Power.

Here's the link to the photos.
http://photos1.blogger.com/photoInclude/blogger/2157/1620/1600/1911gripsafetyjohnholbrook.jpg

rubberneck
06-30-09, 11:51
There are many here who favor that carry system, Many of them also think it is okay to carry in bars and have a beer or two, go figure.


What a stupid statement. If you think that DAO or TDA guns are the cats ass for carry than state your reasons why you think so. Your put down of serious people who carry SAO guns is uncalled for on a board filled with serious minded shooters.

The fact of the matter is that the startle response can easily overcome any DAO system. The idea that a DA system affords you some sort of protection over a SA is misguided. If you have your finger on the trigger and you get startled chances are the gun is going to go bang regardless of the trigger mechanism. There is a fairly famous case from several years ago when a member of the NYPD accidentally killed a teenager on the roof of a housing project when he opened a door to a stairway not expecting a kid to be there. The NYPD carries G19's with the NY trigger spring. It made no difference.

decodeddiesel
06-30-09, 13:11
There are many here who favor that carry system, Many of them also think it is okay to carry in bars and have a beer or two, go figure.

WTF does carrying cocked and locked and boozing while carrying have to do with one and other? That is the stupidest and most ignorant shit I have seen on this board in ages.

ToddG
06-30-09, 15:06
The fact of the matter is that the startle response can easily overcome any DAO system. The idea that a DA system affords you some sort of protection over a SA is misguided.

Actually, the argument that a long, heavy trigger affords no protection over a short, light trigger is what's misguided. The claim always falls back on the startle response thing. But it's worth remembering that:


Before they switched to Glocks, the FBI actually taught as part of their firearms instructor program that it was trigger pull length rather than weight which played the biggest role in preventing accidents from "startle." The reason is obvious ... the more time your brain has to receive feedback that the trigger is being pulled, the less chance you'll finish with the trigger stroke. A trigger that goes from zero to fire in a tenth of an inch provides its first feedback by way of a very, very loud noise.

There are plenty of accidents which occur besides the ones caused by a startle response. Again, longer and/or heavier trigger pulls give you more time to receive and respond to tactile feedback.

From a simple physics standpoint, it takes more movement to AD a longer trigger pull. It takes more pressure to AD a heavier trigger pull. You cannot argue that. So if someone accidentally moves a trigger a quarter of an inch, whether or not the gun goes off is determined by whether the trigger fires after a quarter inch of movement, period. If someone puts six pounds of force on a trigger, whether or not the gun goes off is determined by whether the trigger fires after six pounds of pressure, period.

Claims that "it's all about the shooter" or "my finger/brain is my safety" are all well and good, but even the best trained and most professional people make mistakes. Ever hear of pilot error? The average commercial passenger jet pilot gets literally a hundred times more training on how to operate his plane than the average cop gets on how to operate his pistol. Yet those highly-skilled pilots still sometimes make mistakes. That's why airplanes have all sorts of redundant safety systems.


I'm not saying an SAO gun is bad. Plenty of competent folks choose them. But let's not pretend that fundamental physics ceases to apply just because you've got a 1911 in your hand.

http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/images/matrix38.jpg

FromMyColdDeadHand
06-30-09, 15:47
Oh my God, I'm NEO!!!


Be interesting to rig a test pistol up with a pressure/travel sensor and see in various scenarios what the distance and pressure exterted is.

I just want something to stop the trigger from moving until I want it to move. Plus in reholstering in a more general sense, I like a hammer I can keep from moving rather than trying to hold onto with my finger nails those iddy, bitty little striker indicators ;) .

Decoded- You carry 1911s and M&Ps, right?

ToddG
06-30-09, 15:54
Oh my God, I'm NEO!!!

You must be so proud ...

http://www.killsometime.com/Pictures/images/pic0766.jpg

decodeddiesel
06-30-09, 16:06
You must be so proud ...

http://www.killsometime.com/Pictures/images/pic0766.jpg

Classy...


FMCDH: Yeah, I carry an M&P9C or a 5" 1911 clothing dependent.

ToddG
06-30-09, 16:11
Classy...

At least I didn't post the one of him lip-locked with another dude ...

rubberneck
06-30-09, 18:02
Actually, the argument that a long, heavy trigger affords no protection over a short, light trigger is what's misguided. The claim always falls back on the startle response thing. But it's worth remembering that:

Before they switched to Glocks, the FBI actually taught as part of their firearms instructor program that it was trigger pull length rather than weight which played the biggest role in preventing accidents from "startle." The reason is obvious ... the more time your brain has to receive feedback that the trigger is being pulled, the less chance you'll finish with the trigger stroke. A trigger that goes from zero to fire in a tenth of an inch provides its first feedback by way of a very, very loud noise.

And yet they switched to Glocks and 1911's. I wonder what that says about the prevailing wisdom within the FBI? After all why would a risk adverse federal agency, like the FBI, open themselves up to potential lawsuits by switching to a gun with a much shorter trigger pull if they still felt that it was more likely to cause an AD/ND?


There are plenty of accidents which occur besides the ones caused by a startle response. Again, longer and/or heavier trigger pulls give you more time to receive and respond to tactile feedback.

That's nice, I was addressing a specific point made by the original poster, even then I am sure that we can come up with dozens of cases of negligent discharges/accidental discharges at agencies using DAO/TDA/LEM/DAK. So what does that prove other than you can have an accident with any type of gun?


From a simple physics standpoint, it takes more movement to AD a longer trigger pull. It takes more pressure to AD a heavier trigger pull. You cannot argue that. So if someone accidentally moves a trigger a quarter of an inch, whether or not the gun goes off is determined by whether the trigger fires after a quarter inch of movement, period. If someone puts six pounds of force on a trigger, whether or not the gun goes off is determined by whether the trigger fires after six pounds of pressure, period.

My point was that is you are startled suffciently you will have an ND if your finger is on the trigger. I think I can name enough examples of LEO who had AD's/ND's using those types of trigger systems in stressful to disprove the original posters proposition that they prevent accidents under stress. I'll concede that there are some instances where it might prevent an negligent discharge but I will not concede that carrying a SAO firearm is akin to carrying in a bar.


Claims that "it's all about the shooter" or "my finger/brain is my safety" are all well and good, but even the best trained and most professional people make mistakes. Ever hear of pilot error? The average commercial passenger jet pilot gets literally a hundred times more training on how to operate his plane than the average cop gets on how to operate his pistol. Yet those highly-skilled pilots still sometimes make mistakes. That's why airplanes have all sorts of redundant safety systems.

I don't recall ever claiming that it is all about the shooter or that my finger/brain was my safety and don't know why you felt compelled to bring it up as if I had. Every gun (1911, P35, H&K, CZ 75/85, etc) that I can think of that can be carried cocked and locked has a manual safety of some sort that must be actively disengaged before firing. The only exception to that is the XD which is technically a SAO gun but is, for all intents and purposes, the same as the DAO Glock.

It seems to me that a 1911, for example, has more "redundant safeties" standing between an AD than say a Sig DAK or H&K LEM. So I an not really sure I agree with your general proposition that a longer trigger pull without a manual safety is safer than a single action firearm with a manual safety. In fact I can make the argument that that a SAO gun is much safer before the deactivation of the safety and the DAO is somewhat safer after. What does that prove?


I'm not saying an SAO gun is bad. Plenty of competent folks choose them. But let's not pretend that fundamental physics ceases to apply just because you've got a 1911 in your hand.

Let's also not pretend that the DAO is the cure all for poor gun handling. As you point out there are plenty of competent people who carry SAO guns safely.

Irish
06-30-09, 18:35
There are many here who favor that carry system, Many of them also think it is okay to carry in bars and have a beer or two, go figure.

WTF?!?! :confused:

warpigM-4
06-30-09, 18:55
Thanks for all the replies ,Although I do not drink so I guess I would not fall in the " carry a weapon into a bar and get drunk "group.
I have carried a G30,XD-45 and a number of sig's.Just looking for something new.I Have not been able to find a range around me that has any SAO I can fire .so I am hitting the Gun store this weekend to see what they have ..thank you for your input:D

automan
07-01-09, 10:01
I've had a SAO Carry for about 2 years. At about the 300 round mark, it started to lock back on the last round in the magazine, any magazine. The same mags worked fine in my DA/SA 220. Anyway, I got SIG to take it back and they replaced the internal extractor, in addition to polishing the ramp.

Haven't had problems since. Grip fits my big hands well. Recoil seems less than with a 1911 or my 4.4" DA/SA 220. Accuracy is typical SIG. What I really like is the ability to engage the safety while racking the slide while loading and unloading.

Do I carry it a lot? Not really because I have others I'm more comfortable carrying, LWC, G27 and M&P40. I actually prefer to carry the DA/SA 220 or 226 because I can unholster and get them into action faster. The stiff safety and shape/position of the safety seem to slow me down rather than be neutral or help my speed.

I've actually been playing with the idea of sending it back to SIG and getting it swithched to DA/SA or DAK, but at $200.00+...:)

ToddG
07-01-09, 11:33
And yet they switched to Glocks and 1911's. I wonder what that says about the prevailing wisdom within the FBI? After all why would a risk adverse federal agency, like the FBI, open themselves up to potential lawsuits by switching to a gun with a much shorter trigger pull if they still felt that it was more likely to cause an AD/ND?

Actually, if you're at all familiar with how they chose the Glock and then the 1911, it's not surprising at all.

The Glock came out of a procurement geared directly toward getting more agents to pass the FBI qualification course. The agency had suffered from lawsuits when various smaller trainees or trainees with zero firearms experience couldn't qualify. Rather than address it through a change to the training methodology, they changed guns. Then, surprisingly, they still had problems getting people qualified so they did end up making major changes to the training program and now most folks would tell you the Bureau has one of the best programs out there for teaching fundamentals.

The 1911 was typical tactical trickle-down. HRT changed from its Hi-Powers to the 1911 based on the influence of a team member who was heavily involved in competitive shooting. The gun they selected ended up being disastrous, so they switched to a single-stack. About the same time, the regional SWAT guys start complaining that if HRT "needed" a cool special gun, they needed a cool special gun. So they got the 1911's. Ironically, quite a few guys in both HRT and FBI SWAT opt not to use their 1911s both on- and off-deployment.


That's nice, I was addressing a specific point made by the original poster, even then I am sure that we can come up with dozens of cases of negligent discharges/accidental discharges at agencies using DAO/TDA/LEM/DAK. So what does that prove other than you can have an accident with any type of gun?

You can die in a car crash if you wear a seatbelt, but the odds are a lot better than if you're not wearing a seat belt. The mere fact that it's possible to AD a DAO/TDA gun doesn't change the fact that it is less likely than doing so with a pistol using a shorter & lighter trigger pull.


My point was that is you are startled suffciently you will have an ND if your finger is on the trigger.

And my point is that a lot of ADs occur beyond the typical "startle" scenario.


I'll concede that there are some instances where it might prevent an negligent discharge but I will not concede that carrying a SAO firearm is akin to carrying in a bar.

I'm not the one who made the connection between SAOs and bar carry. Those are two completely separate and unrelated issues imo.


It seems to me that a 1911, for example, has more "redundant safeties" standing between an AD than say a Sig DAK or H&K LEM. So I an not really sure I agree with your general proposition that a longer trigger pull without a manual safety is safer than a single action firearm with a manual safety. In fact I can make the argument that that a SAO gun is much safer before the deactivation of the safety and the DAO is somewhat safer after. What does that prove?

I agree with that assessment 100%. I think manual safeties on pistols are good as long as they're ergonomic, like the 1911's. Even better are the manual safeties you can get on, e.g., the M&P45 and HK45 and SIG SAOs because they allow you to handle the gun administratively (load, unload, etc.) with the safety engaged.

However, most folks are taught to disengage the safety as part of the presentation from the holster, and I know far too many shooters (and instructors) who then believe the safety should stay disengaged until the gun is ready to go back into the holster. So from draw to reholster, there is, effectively, no safety on the gun if you're following that doctrine. (I don't ... I'm also a big fan of decocking a DA/SA gun as soon as I bring it back to ready, too)


Let's also not pretend that the DAO is the cure all for poor gun handling. As you point out there are plenty of competent people who carry SAO guns safely.

Again, never said it was a cure-all. It is definitely a cure-some, though.

rubberneck
07-01-09, 12:36
Actually, if you're at all familiar with how they chose the Glock and then the 1911, it's not surprising at all.

The Glock came out of a procurement geared directly toward getting more agents to pass the FBI qualification course. The agency had suffered from lawsuits when various smaller trainees or trainees with zero firearms experience couldn't qualify. Rather than address it through a change to the training methodology, they changed guns. Then, surprisingly, they still had problems getting people qualified so they did end up making major changes to the training program and now most folks would tell you the Bureau has one of the best programs out there for teaching fundamentals.

The 1911 was typical tactical trickle-down. HRT changed from its Hi-Powers to the 1911 based on the influence of a team member who was heavily involved in competitive shooting. The gun they selected ended up being disastrous, so they switched to a single-stack. About the same time, the regional SWAT guys start complaining that if HRT "needed" a cool special gun, they needed a cool special gun. So they got the 1911's. Ironically, quite a few guys in both HRT and FBI SWAT opt not to use their 1911s both on- and off-deployment.

So you are saying the fear of being sued over trainees failing to qualify was greater than the fear of being sued over choosing a platform that by their own admission was more likely to cause accidents. That makes no sense to anyone with half a brain and yet I am supposed to take at face value their position on length of trigger pull. Over the decades the FBI has been wrong far more often than they have been right when it comes to firearms. Excuse me if I don't put as much value in their opinion as you seem to.


You can die in a car crash if you wear a seatbelt, but the odds are a lot better than if you're not wearing a seat belt. The mere fact that it's possible to AD a DAO/TDA gun doesn't change the fact that it is less likely than doing so with a pistol using a shorter & lighter trigger pull.

I honestly don't even know how to respond to that. There is an order of magnitude of difference between the risk of riding in a car without a seatbelt and picking a SAO gun over a DAO. The difference is so great that I can't honestly believe that you would try and draw an analogy between the two.


And my point is that a lot of ADs occur beyond the typical "startle" scenario.

Try and focus Todd. No one ever said that there weren't AD's beyond the typical "startle scenario. I was responding to a very specific premise made by another poster. I did not address all the possible scenario's in which a gun can AD. I was only talking about the potential for an AD in a high stress environment.


I'm not the one who made the connection between SAOs and bar carry. Those are two completely separate and unrelated issues imo.

Believe or not Todd this thread isn't about you. For the last time everything I have written in this thread should be viewed in the context in which my first post was made. I was addressing a very specific point made by another poster. You somehow have decided to inject yourself into this and it is now all about you.


Again, never said it was a cure-all. It is definitely a cure-some, though.

See above.

ToddG
07-01-09, 14:02
So you are saying the fear of being sued over trainees failing to qualify was greater than the fear of being sued over choosing a platform that by their own admission was more likely to cause accidents.

I'm saying they had a strong imperative from management to choose a weapon that would raise qualification rates.


I honestly don't even know how to respond to that. There is an order of magnitude of difference between the risk of riding in a car without a seatbelt and picking a SAO gun over a DAO. The difference is so great that I can't honestly believe that you would try and draw an analogy between the two.

Dictionary example of "analogy" is "heart is like a pump." I'm sure you'd agree there is "an order of magnitude difference" between a heart and a typical pump. That's what makes it an analogy.

The problem you seem to be having is accepting that your SAO might be just fine even if some other system (in this case, DAO/TDA) has a certain advantage over it in some area.


Try and focus Todd. No one ever said that there weren't AD's beyond the typical "startle scenario. I was responding to a very specific premise made by another poster. I did not address all the possible scenario's in which a gun can AD. I was only talking about the potential for an AD in a high stress environment.

This was what you said in your original post, in addition to the 'startle' comments:

The idea that a DA system affords you some sort of protection over a SA is misguided.

I have since explained a number of ways in which a DA systems affords "some sort of protection" over a SA. That's all. Don't take disagreements so personally. We're all adults here and should be able to have discussions without getting butt hurt.


Believe or not Todd this thread isn't about you. For the last time everything I have written in this thread should be viewed in the context in which my first post was made. I was addressing a very specific point made by another poster. You somehow have decided to inject yourself into this and it is now all about you.

My bad, I thought this was a discussion forum. Apparently, you talking about your opinion was ok, but when I did the same I "interjected" myself.

This might help:

http://9x19mm.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/hurtfeelingsreport.jpg

Irish
07-01-09, 14:07
^ That's funny :p

slustan
07-01-09, 14:13
Is that form copyright protected or can I print out a few and bring them into work? ;)

FromMyColdDeadHand
07-01-09, 15:14
Is that form copyright protected or can I print out a few and bring them into work? ;)

Real Man wouldn't have to ask....




But back on topic, PugilentPorcine- looking forward to hearing what you think. I thought my buddies P220 Carry shot smoother than his Commander - it the Sig just is a but easier to hold, seemed like better contact, not that a 1911 is bad in that regard.

rubberneck
07-01-09, 15:37
I'm done.

slustan
07-01-09, 23:05
Real Man wouldn't have to ask....




But back on topic, PugilentPorcine- looking forward to hearing what you think. I thought my buddies P220 Carry shot smoother than his Commander - it the Sig just is a but easier to hold, seemed like better contact, not that a 1911 is bad in that regard.

True, just giving credit where credit is due.

But back on topic, I appreciate all the insight on the Sig, been considering one myself.

1SFG
07-01-09, 23:54
You and me both brother. You and me both. If I'm reading that correctly, cocked and locked is apparently as stupid as carrying in a bar or drinking and carrying...


:confused::confused::confused:

civilian
07-02-09, 00:03
I have a 220 SAO Carry. Shoots very well and would be a candidate for ccw, but for the fact that I'm having the same problem at least one person has mentioned. With my thumb riding the safety, I am engaging the slide lock lever, resulting in failures to lock back on empty. I've been told that the guys at Gray Gun's have a fix, but my emails to them so far have gone unanswered and I haven't had time to call.

http://www.pbase.com/ashinoyu/image/111165717/large.jpg

warpigM-4
07-02-09, 01:03
very nice weapon!!!thanks for posting a Picture.I can see what some of you are saying about the thumb riding the safety and causing failure to lock back.
what is the fix that you speak of??

civilian
07-02-09, 17:38
No idea brother. After hearing that they had some sort of a fix, I emailed a guy who works there and who specifically mentioned that it was something they've routinely addressed, but have yet to hear back from him. This is going back about 4-5 months now. I'm going to try them again as that is really my only nitpick with the gun.

White Eagle
07-02-09, 18:13
I'm a fan of the SAO system. I've carried 1911's for years, and recently purchased the Sig P220R SAO. I've always liked Sig's for their dependability, durability, and ease of field stripping, but just never cared for the DA trigger. This Sig does it all, but it did require training myself to not ride the safety like I did on my 1911's, for the reason others have mentioned regarding slide-locking. I've read that the slide lock "tab" can be ground down to minimize the problem. After all, there only needs to be just enough metal there to catch the slide when the magazine is empty. I don't use the slide lock to release the slide - I simply pull the slide back to load the pistol. I just can't bring myself to grind on the part, so I've just learned to keep my thumb off of the safety. As far as the pistol is concerned, it points very naturally for me, and shoots very nicely. I don't think it's quite as accurate as my Kimbers were, but the pistol's overall simplicity of design is a good trade. Bench rest groups are typically 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" at 25 yards, when the Kimbers were under 1" under the same conditions. Still, my confidence in the pistol's performance makes it a first-rate ccw pistol. Carrying cocked-and-locked did take some getting used to at first, but the redundant safeties built into the 1911's and the Sig SAO also are confidence building, and confidence in whatever you carry is of utmost importance, IMHO. Someone else on this thread said to try it out, and go with what works best for you, and I totally agree. Hope this helps, and good luck!

Pesty0311
07-05-09, 01:59
very nice weapon!!!thanks for posting a Picture.I can see what some of you are saying about the thumb riding the safety and causing failure to lock back.
what is the fix that you speak of??

The thumb should always ride the safety on a SOA period. Maybe shaving the slide release down so your thumb doesn't hit it would be a great start followed by lots training to overhand manipulate the slide on reloads.

I see this shit about concern in carrying a SOA safely all the time..it ****ing blows my mind.

LDM
07-05-09, 08:30
As a follow up to the thumb over safety / slide lock issue...
P220 SAO parts are VERY hard to come by. The usual places (e.g. Brownells, Top Gun) do not have them. And without a replacement part in hand, I do not want to experiment. However, a regular slide lock, which has tab extended toward the rear, vs. the SAO with tab extended toward the front, is readily available and a $12 part. I will probably get one and grind the tab off as an experiment. I slingshot the slide on reloads anyway because the tab is small and hard to disengage.
As to thumb over safety always... I agree with that position on 1911's but maybe not here. My P220 SAO safety is very stiff and is very positive; it gives a definite tactile feedback, as well as a noticeable "click" sound (first twitch was it was TOO hard and TOO loud). To engage or disengage this safety takes a deliberate effort and you know when it is done. The safety itself is smaller than even a standard 1911, much less an extended. So the chances of disengaging by accident is not zero, but on the order of a Browning Hi Power. In fact the Browning Hi Power safety (if stiff) is a good analog. Someone without the habit/muscle memory of thumb over safety, would probably never have an issue.
This whole nitpicking issue is more software (read: me) than hardware.
Stay safe.