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QuietShootr
07-02-09, 22:27
If I'm going to go to these things as my main pistol, I want to have spare parts around, as well as the ability to detail strip and replace as necessary.

Are these things readily available?

SecretNY
07-02-09, 23:03
I'm scheduled to take the armorer's course next week. If no one answers by then, I'll find out for you. I'm taking it for the same reason. If I'm going to run the gun as my primary duty weapon, I want to be able to diagnose problems and fix them.

Stay safe,
SNY

Business_Casual
07-03-09, 08:57
Did you read this yet: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=3553

M_P

diverge
07-04-09, 01:56
I have this same question. With so many people on this forum that like the M&P handgun I expected more responses.

The most complete supply of parts I found was brownells:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=859/schematicsdetail/M_P__Semi_Auto_

Noticed they do not sell the extractor. Is there a reason why they don't?

Mate
07-04-09, 02:20
Yay, and two parts I wanted most are on B/O.

Thanks for the link though. I'll put myself on the list.

John_Wayne777
07-04-09, 10:37
To the best of my knowledge there's no armorer's manual out there for the M&P...at least not one that anybody can get ahold of. I'd sure as hell like one.

There are M&P armorer courses offered by S&W, but it's generally LE only. Perhaps Todd or GotM$ can more intelligently answer some of these questions.

subzero
07-04-09, 11:44
Parts: Brownells and SSS are the best sources.

The Armorers Class was LE only as of 07 or so, don't know if that's changed. The most important things you'll learn there are pins to port, sights to starboard (for removal). Roll pins can be reused but toss them if they look the least bit dinked. One drop of lube per rail, one on muzzle, one on hood and one on trigger bar tail. The extractor pin can a bitch to put in without mushrooming, so get extra pins if replacing extractors. You'll need a go/no-go bar gauge to measure extractor hook position if replacing extractors. There's an adjustment pad up by the hook you can file (using the gauge as a guide). If anything goes pear shaped with the sear, it's much more time expedient to have a complete sear pack standing by rather than trying to find the detent you just lost on the carpet. The striker safety plunger spring can easily kink on reinstallation and gum up the works. If memory serves, that problem can manifest by the slide going partially rearward (going out of battery) when pulling the trigger. I think I've seen that one on Glocks also.

ToddG
07-04-09, 12:01
There is an armorer manual, you get it when you take the armorer course. It's fairly well done with photos, etc.

While the M&P is reasonably easy to disassemble and reassemble, it is nowhere near a Glock in this regard. Nothing is. There are more individual parts to deal with, different sized pins (thus different sized punches), and a couple of things that are easy to get wrong if you're not careful (e.g., trigger spring orientation). If you decide to take apart the sear housing block, you've added more complication ... though I don't think it's really necessary to muck with it, personally.

Also, depending on your individual gun's tolerances, removing the extractor can require a lot of patience and/or special tools. Quite a few talented folks have destroyed punches trying to drive that pin out. Just a guess, but I think that's probably why Smith won't sell extractors. They don't want anyone messing up the gun -- and their tools -- by trying to remove the one that came in the gun. FWIW, I've had two that went well past 20k rounds without a hiccup (and one of them is at 66k+ with the original extractor).

87GN
07-05-09, 02:21
S&W told me to go **** myself while taking a long walk off a short pier after a taking a hike when I asked for spare parts at the NRA show.

I sold my M&Ps and canceled my plans to buy any more.

the1911fan
07-05-09, 11:59
S&W told me to go **** myself while taking a long walk off a short pier after a taking a hike when I asked for spare parts at the NRA show.

I sold my M&Ps and canceled my plans to buy any more.

That attitude will hurt them in the long run and they will become dare I say like...H&K as far as parts availability, I doubt S&W could ever fall to H&K's customer service level tho. That surprises me that S&W would have that attitude towards a customer, I guess they want to control it. Like I said in the long run it WILL hurt them and they will give business back to Glock

John_Wayne777
07-05-09, 13:13
S&W told me to go **** myself while taking a long walk off a short pier after a taking a hike when I asked for spare parts at the NRA show.

I sold my M&Ps and canceled my plans to buy any more.

There are assclowns in every company in every industry, bro....

ToddG
07-05-09, 15:03
S&W told me to go **** myself while taking a long walk off a short pier after a taking a hike when I asked for spare parts at the NRA show.

Weird, because they sell them direct.

smith-wesson.com Retail Parts Lists (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&content=13016&sectionId=10504)

87GN
07-05-09, 19:57
Weird, because they sell them direct.

smith-wesson.com Retail Parts Lists (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&content=13016&sectionId=10504)

I talked to two different people, one at least gave me an explanation (because they didn't think the average person could install them), the first guy simply said "No" and walked off to talk to someone else.

I wanted a few specific parts...a trigger bar for my M&P Pro, and some other parts for my 45c.

I talked to a lot of vendors and was interested in the responses...The Kimber guys admitted to me that they had a lot of pistols come back with Schwartz problems, after I talked about mine...the Glock folks were concerned and responsive about my G22 problems, though I didn't feel like sending them the pistol, my only pistol light, and a box of ammo I couldn't find anywhere...the Sig people refused to get me any parts for my 228, or point me to someone who could help, they said I should just buy a new Sig...

And so on...


There are assclowns in every company in every industry, bro....

I know, but I like having spares for the few pistols I've pared my "collection" down to, I have enough to build a few 1911s, everything for the Glocks and of course ARs. No room for something that needs to be sent to the vendor for service...

diverge
07-05-09, 21:01
Weird, because they sell them direct.

smith-wesson.com Retail Parts Lists (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&content=13016&sectionId=10504)

Half of those parts are "Restricted to factory trained armourers". Why is the barrel restricted? Part of field stripping is removing the barrel. If I am reading that wrong let me know. I'm looking at PistolPartsList_Retail.pdf.

skyugo
07-06-09, 23:30
Half of those parts are "Restricted to factory trained armourers". Why is the barrel restricted? Part of field stripping is removing the barrel. If I am reading that wrong let me know. I'm looking at PistolPartsList_Retail.pdf.

installing a different barrel probably requires some hand fitting.

ToddG
07-07-09, 12:10
No, the barrels are drop-in. I've got no idea why Smith decided to make the barrels "restricted" and they weren't previously.

PPGMD
07-07-09, 12:47
...the Sig people refused to get me any parts for my 228, or point me to someone who could help, they said I should just buy a new Sig...

All the 228 parts except the extractor and breech block are available from Top Gun Supply. After market extractors are made by someone named GerryR on Sigforum.

Anyways the 228 is a discontinued model, they have the parts to repair them, they just don't seem to want to sell them unless you need one to do a right now repair.

ToddG
07-07-09, 13:11
Anyways the 228 is a discontinued model, they have the parts to repair them, they just don't seem to want to sell them unless you need one to do a right now repair.

That decision was made in '07, as I recall. It was actually related more to the P220 models than anything else. The goals were twofold: reduce spare parts inventory, and motivate owners of older heavy-use P220s to buy new guns.

The policy helped lead to SIG losing its only federal agency that issued the P220 exclusively.

PPGMD
07-07-09, 15:50
As a 228 owner it's kind of annoying not to be able to get spare parts for it easily (though I have 2 new extractors from the batch TGS got earlier this year). But they discontinued the gun about three years ago, they can't continue to make parts for guns that they don't make anymore.

So because of the lifetime warranty for civilian guns and a few agencies still having them in service it's only natural that they hold onto what little parts that they have for people that actually need them. Since Gunnies seem to be people that naturally trend toward hoarding stuff that they don't need. It would suck if a high volume shooter such as myself can't fix his 228 because some one box a week yahoo decided to buy all the breech blocks that Sig had just in case he needed them.

Of course I bought a 229 and I think at some point my 228R will become my back up gun, not my primary.

87GN
07-07-09, 16:04
As a 228 owner it's kind of annoying not to be able to get spare parts for it easily (though I have 2 new extractors from the batch TGS got earlier this year). But they discontinued the gun about three years ago, they can't continue to make parts for guns that they don't make anymore.

So because of the lifetime warranty for civilian guns and a few agencies still having them in service it's only natural that they hold onto what little parts that they have for people that actually need them. Since Gunnies seem to be people that naturally trend toward hoarding stuff that they don't need. It would suck if a high volume shooter such as myself can't fix his 228 because some one box a week yahoo decided to buy all the breech blocks that Sig had just in case he needed them.

Of course I bought a 229 and I think at some point my 228R will become my back up gun, not my primary.

I don't think it's unreasonable to buy spares ahead of time.

I like to have stuff, just in case...1 of everything is fine for me, maybe 2 of the high wear parts...and a spare extractor is a nice thing to have. Plus, I tend to break stuff.

This yahoo will keep on keepin on, 'cuz it's a free country and we can do what we want...such as dump or hide in the back of the safe guns we can't buy parts for. If you're that much of a "high volume" shooter, you might want to plan ahead and buy stuff while you can. Ever hear "Poor prior planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part?" ;)

mike benedict
07-07-09, 16:52
To the best of my knowledge there's no armorer's manual out there for the M&P...at least not one that anybody can get a hold of. I'd sure as hell like one.

I have a M&P armorer's manual and like Todd said it is quite detailed

PPGMD
07-07-09, 19:32
I don't think it's unreasonable to buy spares ahead of time.

I like to have stuff, just in case...1 of everything is fine for me, maybe 2 of the high wear parts...and a spare extractor is a nice thing to have. Plus, I tend to break stuff.

This yahoo will keep on keepin on, 'cuz it's a free country and we can do what we want...such as dump or hide in the back of the safe guns we can't buy parts for. If you're that much of a "high volume" shooter, you might want to plan ahead and buy stuff while you can. Ever hear "Poor prior planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part?" ;)

Why do people use the "It's a free country" argument every time someone does something selfish? Yes it's a free country, that doesn't mean that we have to personally condone such selfish behavior. It is also why Sig can hold on to the more rare parts on discontinued models for people that really may need it.

As far as buying stuff ahead of time, believe me, with exception of the breech blocks, slide, barrel, and frame I have enough parts to totally rebuild a Sig 228R, Sig 229R, and Sig 226R.

Anyways with exception of the extractors (which are available from a third party), and the breech block 228 parts are available from Top Gun Supply and Brownells. And if you truly need it Sig also has the parts for sale as needed to repair broken guns.

The M&P parts and armorers issue. I hope someone fixes that, I know with Sigs a couple of companies have done armorers instructions on DVD, and CD. Maybe Todd can do something. :)

R Moran
07-07-09, 20:17
That decision was made in '07, as I recall. It was actually related more to the P220 models than anything else. The goals were twofold: reduce spare parts inventory, and motivate owners of older heavy-use P220s to buy new guns.

The policy helped lead to SIG losing its only federal agency that issued the P220 exclusively.

Did they go to M&P.45's? If its the agency i think your talking about, I didn't know issues with Sig was an issue.

Bob

ToddG
07-07-09, 21:13
Bob -- I'm not in a position to speak for the agency. They were looking at various new guns for a while, in particular the P226R-357 and then later on the M&P45 ... which they adopted. Right before they started looking at the M&P45 so seriously, they were having some P220 problems and SIG wasn't exactly falling over itself to fix them or find solutions.

John_Wayne777
07-07-09, 21:14
I have a M&P armorer's manual and like Todd said it is quite detailed

Well yeah, guys who go through the armorer's course can get them...but guys who can't (AFAIK the armorer's courses are LE only) are SOL.

...unless you're willing to sell me yours. :D

87GN
07-07-09, 22:30
Why do people use the "It's a free country" argument every time someone does something selfish? Yes it's a free country, that doesn't mean that we have to personally condone such selfish behavior. It is also why Sig can hold on to the more rare parts on discontinued models for people that really may need it.

As far as buying stuff ahead of time, believe me, with exception of the breech blocks, slide, barrel, and frame I have enough parts to totally rebuild a Sig 228R, Sig 229R, and Sig 226R.

Anyways with exception of the extractors (which are available from a third party), and the breech block 228 parts are available from Top Gun Supply and Brownells. And if you truly need it Sig also has the parts for sale as needed to repair broken guns.

The M&P parts and armorers issue. I hope someone fixes that, I know with Sigs a couple of companies have done armorers instructions on DVD, and CD. Maybe Todd can do something. :)

You call it hoarding, I call it being prepared.

I bought primers years back when they were cheap and plentiful, powder and bullets too. Oh, and .22LR. There are a few things I wish I had more of - I didn't buy them way back when - tough luck. 228 extractors being one of them. I won't depend on a platform that I can't repair myself, having had horrible experiences from some of the top names in the industry (and some of the lower end names too).

What is the difference between me having enough parts to rebuild a pistol and you having enough parts to do the same?

Feel free to share the third party where I may buy an extractor or two for my 228.

And if anyone knows where I can get an MA trigger bar for an M&P, I may get back into them.

John_Wayne777
07-07-09, 22:44
And if anyone knows where I can get an MA trigger bar for an M&P, I may get back into them.

My advice would be to call up a S&W armorer...like GotM4. He might be able to hook you up.

PPGMD
07-07-09, 23:00
You call it hoarding, I call it being prepared.

What is the difference between me having enough parts to rebuild a pistol and you having enough parts to do the same?

Oh god not this stuff again. I was referring to someone, who fires a few of cases a year total through all his guns, and yet would buy ALL of the rare spare parts, for example 15 breech blocks (something that you would rarely if ever need to replace). You know that there are shooters like that. It's because of those people that Sig has to restrict the sale of rare parts. Don't blame Sig blame selfish shooters.

I have no problem with someone that buys what they need. I have a problem with people that selfish buy much much more then they will ever need.


Feel free to share the third party where I may buy an extractor or two for my 228.

Like I said GerryR on SigForum.

JB2000
07-10-09, 18:01
I ordered a trigger return spring and a recoil spring assembly directly from S&W yesterday. Pretty common parts but they were in stock and about what I would expect to pay for a similar Glock part.

williejc
07-11-09, 14:45
About the 228 spare parts issue, my guess is that Sig canceled parts production for the 228 at the same time as the decision to drop this model was made and have no intention of making more. They probably view repairs on customers' guns as a costly service that loses money and have zero concern for the consumer who owns an obsolete pistol.

You never know who makes parts for what because of outsourcing, which is a practice that affects spare parts production.

Ruger has had a decades old policy of restricting parts--most likely for liability concerns.

Alpha Sierra
07-12-09, 07:29
I have a problem with people that selfish buy much much more then they will ever need.

That's not for you or anyone else to judge.

PPGMD
07-12-09, 12:11
That's not for you or anyone else to judge.

Yes it is. This idea that you can do what ever you want and not get judged in the problem.

ToddG
07-12-09, 12:28
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n315/tiggerfreak2142/Misc%20Fark%20Things/threadjack-vodakbra.jpg

John_Wayne777
07-12-09, 17:41
Fellas, can we drop the whole hoarding argument please?

Thank you.

GreyOps
01-13-11, 09:02
Don't mean to bring this back from the dead but found this link to an Armorers Manual online while I was searching last night.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25533830/Smith-Wesson-M-P9-40-Armorer-Manual

Thought it might be useful to anyone who is still looking.

luke2-2008
01-13-11, 10:28
thanks:thank_you2:

kartoffel
01-13-11, 10:49
Awesome. I'm going to download it and make 15 copies, even though I only need 1 or 2.

dookie1481
05-05-11, 00:28
Bumping this for those who might want the M&P armorer's manual listed above. Thanks to GreyOps for linking to it.

You can view it online at the link, or download it. If you want to download it, you need to upload something in return. Just any .pdf looks like it will do.

one
05-05-11, 01:46
I'm not a member of the private LE forum here so I was going to pass on posting this, but if anyone involved in this thread is LE and interested Smith and Wesson is putting on a M&P pistol armorer's course at the Kansas Law Enforcement Training Center in Hutchinson, Ks. in October.

One day class restricted to LE, shows 7 credit hours.

And...It's free of charge. I'm signed up for it.