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flyboy1788
07-05-09, 23:33
I know that generally, although it is quite popular, the XD is not quite as highly regarded as the glock or m&ps are when it comes to being a combat grade pistol/design by those who get out and put large amounts of ammo downrange each year. Just curious, does the XDM have any significant design improvements over the original XD that might decrease the likelihood of small parts breakage and increase the overall durability/reliability of the gun?? Is it simpler, does it have less parts, anything??

trio
07-06-09, 00:26
the main upgrades to the XDm that I am aware of are


1) "match grade" barrel

2) different sights

3) ergo grip w/ interchangeable backstraps

4) i believe the reset on the XDm is better than the XD, similar in concept to sig's SRT...but I could be wrong about that...


as far as small parts and longevity go, to my knowledge, that hasn't significantly changed from the XD to the XDm...really, only time will tell...

I do have a very good friend who works for a major training center...he continues to report that the XDs that come through there are pretty consistently the bottom end of reliability...next time I talk to him I will try and remember to ask him about the XDm

personally, I would buy a glock or M&P before I bought an XD of any flavor,...

flyboy1788
07-06-09, 00:28
the main upgrades to the XDm that I am aware of are


1) "match grade" barrel

2) different sights

3) ergo grip w/ interchangeable backstraps

4) i believe the reset on the XDm is better than the XD, similar in concept to sig's SRT...but I could be wrong about that...


as far as small parts and longevity go, to my knowledge, that hasn't significantly changed from the XD to the XDm...really, only time will tell...

I do have a very good friend who works for a major training center...he continues to report that the XDs that come through there are pretty consistently the bottom end of reliability...next time I talk to him I will try and remember to ask him about the XDm

personally, I would buy a glock or M&P before I bought an XD of any flavor,...

Interesting...btw what reliability problems were they having. I keep hearing about xd reliability problems but I can never find any concrete instances by using the search function on this forum...

M4Fundi
07-06-09, 00:37
There are a couple of XD forums that can answer this better than I can, but since no one has replied I will try...I do own one for my wife and so far it is a pretty good shooter (hate the trigger yet eats any HP I put thru it) From what I understand there are no ground breaking improvements, but from what I've read they did listen to certain complaints about takedown safety. (typical they worked mostly on safety stuff to help get it adopted by departments and less on performance:()

The ergonomics are a little better, little better grip surface (subjective), better sights, during takedown you do NOT have to pull the trigger to remove slide as before (is a good improvement), the trigger is allegedly a little better with a little better reset.

This is what I have read and from gun store handling, have NOT shot it yet.

If I had known that I could not get "factory" parts to be able to fix myself I would not have bought it. When I can convince my wife it will be changed out for an M&P (with the pink grip:rolleyes: She like pink and if that gets her to shoot then I will load pink ammo:p

trio
07-06-09, 00:39
without throwing my buddy under the bus....


the classes that are conducted are generally for "operators" or professionals over a course of several days

over those several days, the round counts approach the 1500-2000 round mark

according to him, certain platforms were prone to small parts breakage, and severe reliability issues the longer they were run...one of the specific guns he mentioned was the XD...FTF, FTE, etc....i'm sorry I can't be more specific, but I didn't ask for more

i know this is the interwebs and the "well this guy told me this so it is now GOSPEL!!!" is common


all I can say is this

someone whose opinion i value and trust told me that I would be better off without XDs, and I believe him

unfortunately you will likely have to discover that on your own (or take my word at it...:D)...but if you talk to enough people I believe this opinion will be pretty consistent

trio
07-06-09, 00:42
If I had known that I could not get "factory" parts to be able to fix myself I would not have bought it. When I can convince my wife it will be changed out for an M&P (with the pink grip:rolleyes: She like pink and if that gets her to shoot then I will load pink ammo:p


not to hijack, but out of curiousity don't you have the same factory parts problems with an M&P? to my knowledge, it is similar to the XD in that it pretty much requires a trip to smith and wesson (or other gunsmith) to be tinkered with and that parts are not readily available to us "mere mortals"...truthfully one of the things that keeps me on glocks from M&Ps is the fact that if I wanted the pro sear in an M&P I had to pay $150 and send it back to S&W to get done

flyboy1788
07-06-09, 00:44
without throwing my buddy under the bus....


the classes that are conducted are generally for "operators" or professionals over a course of several days

over those several days, the round counts approach the 1500-2000 round mark

according to him, certain platforms were prone to small parts breakage, and severe reliability issues the longer they were run...one of the specific guns he mentioned was the XD...FTF, FTE, etc....i'm sorry I can't be more specific, but I didn't ask for more

i know this is the interwebs and the "well this guy told me this so it is now GOSPEL!!!" is common


all I can say is this

someone whose opinion i value and trust told me that I would be better off without XDs, and I believe him

unfortunately you will likely have to discover that on your own (or take my word at it...:D)...but if you talk to enough people I believe this opinion will be pretty consistent

thankyou trio, I believe you;)

G34Shooter
07-06-09, 11:56
Plenty of XD related faults listed here:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=14204

Business_Casual
07-06-09, 12:15
Here's another list of threads:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=30221

M_P

txfireguy2003
07-06-09, 15:52
Here is a real world, first hand account of XD problems:

I had one, first handgun I ever bought for myself. I bought it for it's added safety features over the Glock, for use in the police academy. When I picked it up, I was instructed to fire at least 200 rounds through it for "break in" before carrying it or using it in a class. Okay, no problem, I'm glad to shoot and you just gave me a reason to justify the expense. I went out and bought 500 rounds of ammo, various makers, various bullet weights etc. I cleaned the gun, relubed and went to my make shift range (a pasture with a stock tank and a large earthen dam.) I loaded up 5 mags, 2 X 10 rounds, and 3 X 12 rounds, chambered and fired. BANG, BANG....nothing. The third round had stripped off the mag, started to feed into the chamber and lodged at about a 45 degree angle. I cleared the jam, rechambered and tried again, same problem. Being my first pistol, I continued this batter for 500 rounds, some improvement toward the end, but still jammed at least once on every mag. Bought more ammo and tried again, no signifigant improvement so I started doing research online and found several people complaining of same issue. I guess I should note that I cleaned the weapon meticulously before and after each range session. I called Springfield and got the "Wow, that's the first we've heard of that type of problem! Send it in, we'll look at it and ship it back and reimburse you for shipping costs." I'm thinking, okay, CS is good, so I send it back, and get it back in about 5 days, with an obviously recut feedramp and a letter stating that the weapon was in spec, but due to the photos (about 20) of the gun in the jammed condition as well as the marks left on the cases that jammed that I sent along, they decided to recut the feed ramp. I immediately went back out and fired another 500 rounds, with only 3 failures. Relatively good, but as a defensive weapon, if it jams once under perfect conditions, with my luck it will jam when I'm under fire. I called them again, they agreed to look at it again, but "unable to replicate the problem" and suggested that maybe I was "limp wristing" the weapon. Okay, since this is my first handgun, I thought, well, maybe, so I let a buddy, who was extremely well versed in handgun shooting, try the weapon. He experienced the same problems I was having. At this point, it was firearms time at the academy, and I didn't have time to send it in again, nor the money to replace it, so I went through a couple thousand rounds in the course of 3 days, in what I would call a very low intensity fassion, and experienced about 10 failures to feed, exactly as I had been experienceing. I then decided the ditch that weapon and get a Glock. I have since owned 3 glocks, an older S&W 4006 and a S&W M&P 9c and have not had a failure of any kind on any of the glocks, and the only failure of the M&P was with gunshow reloads. They were the first 100 round through the gun, and it short stroked a few times, so I assumed they had light loads, when using even cheap factory ammo, it functions 100%.

Another guy in my academy class had a 5" "tactical" XD and experienced the same problems I was having, only with less frequency.

So there you have a first hand account of the XD's problems, and my recommendation to stay away from them.

flyboy1788
07-06-09, 15:58
thank you for sharing your experience txfireguy. That is what I was looking for.

ralph
07-06-09, 21:47
Another M&P convert here,
I used to own a XD45, 4" service model, I now have a M&P45 4" midsize.. The XD has a number of faults which after finding out on my own, as well as reading on the internet, I figured out that I had made a mistake buying the XD in the first place.. Little things like if the recoil spring assembly in not reinstalled centered up on the barrel, and you rack the slide upon reassembly, it can lock up, and some folks have had to send them back to S.A. for them to get apart.. Without rehashing what others have posted in the links, They are a good range toy, and that's about it, I'd never stake my life on one, The M&P is a lightyear ahead of the XD, Will work when needed, is much more accurate, not picky about ammo, (try feeding some LSWC's in a XD and see what happens, my M&P runs'em just fine) Better trigger after break-in, more sight options, Priced closely, I fail to see why anyone would pick a XD over a M&P, or a Glock, After owning one, I could not reccommend a XD to anyone..

M4Fundi
07-07-09, 03:05
not to hijack, but out of curiousity don't you have the same factory parts problems with an M&P? to my knowledge, it is similar to the XD in that it pretty much requires a trip to smith and wesson (or other gunsmith) to be tinkered with and that parts are not readily available to us "mere mortals"...truthfully one of the things that keeps me on glocks from M&Ps is the fact that if I wanted the pro sear in an M&P I had to pay $150 and send it back to S&W to get done

S&W offers M&P Armorer's Courses and I was under the belief that SA did not have "genuine" armorer's courses for XDs and that factory parts could be had for M&Ps and not for XDs, but I'm sure the guys on here that are actually armorers would know better than I.

jc75754
07-07-09, 12:39
I own an XD .40 full size and have only had 2 FTF. I have shot many different bullet types and weights. I bought 1,000 rounds of wolf ammo and shot all that in about 2-3 trips to the range. I did however break the pistol in using blazer ammo and experienced no problems. I attribute the FTF to the cheap ammo and have since then put close to 2,800 rounds of ammo through the XD with few problems. Don't get me wrong I like glock and M&P, but the XD just felt better.

Ill tell you like my daddy told me, "Opinions are like a@# holes, everyone has one but sometimes they stink."

spamsammich
07-07-09, 17:42
I just finished putting 500 rounds of BVAC reloads plus 50 rounds of Win 9mm nato through my new M&P and had only 1 FTE. It stovepiped with the BVAC reloads. Fresh out of the box with no cleaning and only Breakfree LP at the rails. The 2nd mag, first shot and for whatever reason it didn't clear the slide. I switched to the NATO loads with no issues, then went back to BVAC. Shot the balance of the 500 over the course of 3 days. I'm so impressed that I'm trying to figure out how to get one of ToddG's special run M&Ps yet put a new roof on the house this summer.

I grew up shooting a stovepipe factory of an AMT .45 and some severely abused Alaska Glock 17s (rode hard and put away in a gunwale bin). So this kind of performance (as unimpressive as it might seem to you HSLD guys) is a revelation! The only other pistol I've owned that went 500 rounds with 1 fte was a Steyr M40-a1 but that did its first 500 after a thorough cleaning and all it ate was Wallyworld WWB and canned heat. I am also a big fan of the G19, my experience with 17s was not enough of a deterrent to keep me from liking the 19. And to be fair, abused condition aside, the only reason why I didn't like the 17 was my hands are tiny.

Caeser25
07-08-09, 18:44
I put 1,000 rounds through my Xd the first 2 weeks I had it, 5 years ago, I had roughly 10 ftf since 2004, half of which are attributed to 2 bad magazines, 2 are from me limp wristing last time I was out :o. I have easily 5k+ through it, maybe I got lucky. I have never attended any training classes either:o

decodeddiesel
07-08-09, 22:05
Do we seriously have to go through this again?

RogerinTPA
07-08-09, 22:25
Check out the thread guys...again, it's like this comes up weekly now:rolleyes:: feel free to bump and contribute to those threads ;) http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=406366#post406366

flyboy1788
07-09-09, 01:35
Check out the thread guys...again, it's like this comes up weekly now:rolleyes:: feel free to bump and contribute to those threads ;) http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=406366#post406366

Rharris, If you will notice, my original question was in regards to the XDm being significantly different from the XD. I am aware of the XDs downfalls, but I figured there was a chance that the XDm would be a big change in design, parts, etc from the original XD design. I was thinking the XDm would be perhaps more of a duty grade weapon than the XD, but I guess not. This was not intended to be a "what is best" thread. BTW: that is a nice info resource link you posted, but unfortunately, none of those topics pertain directly to my question about whether or not the XDm is a significant change.

John_Wayne777
07-09-09, 09:12
I was thinking the XDm would be perhaps more of a duty grade weapon than the XD, but I guess not.


The only changes I see between the XD and the XDM are refinement of the shape, inclusion of a customizable grip option, and the use of a "match" barrel.

...which is some really smelly marketing BS, if you ask me.

If they've made strides in improving the service life of the critical functional parts or in the reliability of the weapon overall, they aren't putting it out there for public consumption AFAIK.

flyboy1788
07-09-09, 12:45
The only changes I see between the XD and the XDM are refinement of the shape, inclusion of a customizable grip option, and the use of a "match" barrel.

...which is some really smelly marketing BS, if you ask me.

If they've made strides in improving the service life of the critical functional parts or in the reliability of the weapon overall, they aren't putting it out there for public consumption AFAIK.

I agree with you, I find it unfortunate that all they did was essentially pretty up the original XD aesthetically and call it something new, rather than simplifying it internally. Getting rid of the grip saftey would be a good start, and making it easier to field strip would be another.