PDA

View Full Version : What's the verdict on the HK45?



7.62NATO
07-06-09, 21:54
The much anticipated HK45 was, to many, supposed to be the end-all be-all large frame .45 ACP. Has it lived up to its task; is the jury back with a verdict? I know some very knowledgeable people were involved in the design and it had great promise. So tell me, does it kick the snot out of a 1911?

30 cal slut
07-06-09, 22:59
So tell me, does it kick the snot out of a 1911?

IMO ... no.

But it is probably the king of all tupperware .45's.

I'm pretty happy with mine.

trio
07-06-09, 23:25
its a great gun


personally I would buy a G21SF or a M&P 45 before an HK45....i am not a DA/SA guy though, so YMMV


i

Outrider
07-06-09, 23:45
So tell me, does it kick the snot out of a 1911?

No. The HK45 is like an improved USP with a changeable backstrap and an ambidextrous slide release. The ergonomics are much nicer than what you find in the USP. I believe the ambi-mag release lever is better than the USP's as well. The core of the pistol seems to be what HK learned from the USP design.

The HK45 does feel good in the hand. It is easier to field strip and clean than a 1911. It probably would handle extended use/abuse in the field better than a 1911 also. That said, I prefer shooting with a nicely tuned 1911 pistol.

IrishDevil
07-07-09, 01:42
Kick the snot out of it? It certainly gives the 1911 a run for it's money. It will match or better most custom 1911s accuracy wise, from what I've seen. The one area I can see the 1911 beating out the HK45 is pure speed shooting. Other than that one thing I honestly think the HK45 beats out the 1911. That's only my opinion though.

loupav
07-07-09, 17:37
...I prefer shooting with a nicely tuned 1911 pistol.

Isn't that a little unfair? Comparing a "tuned" 1911 to a factory built gun? Let's just say a Wilson or a Nighthawk being compared to a $900 out of the box gun.

Something like comparing Ferrari to a SL 500. Sure the SL is a great car. But does it compare to a Ferrari? NO! It's a different league.

Greg Bell
07-07-09, 18:34
The HK45 is a fantastic combat pistol. If I was going to carry a pistol into WWIII the HK45 would be at the top of my list.

Ian111
07-07-09, 20:14
1911 and Glock 21 shooters aren't going to be "won over" by the HK45 if they weren't won over by the USP already. The HK45 is a slightly improved USP no more no less. The HK45 is not a game changer by any stretch.

Outlander Systems
07-07-09, 20:15
What are the improvements over the USP, in terms of the "guts"?

I know that it has ergonomic improvements, and a non-proprietary RIS, but is the a difference in the operating system, so-to-speak?

Ian111
07-07-09, 20:24
I believe it has the O rings like the USP Expert, Tacticals, and MK23's. Otherwise not sure. I doubt they deviated too much if at all from the basic USP internals since the USP has proven itself over the years. The HK 45 was IMO a quick repackaging so it might have better chances of being adopted for the now ill fated US Military Joint Combat Pistol trials. Shooting characteristics and recoil impulse was very similar to a USP. In other words you feel that big honkin slide when it recoils, albeit its a more rounded big honkin slide. Trigger felt the same as a USP. A G21SF is slightly less fat and a 1911 is still heavy. And when you bring the HK45 up to eye level you definately notice that slide in your face . It was a little disconcerting at first after not shooting a HK tupperware for awhile.:)

brianc142
07-07-09, 20:34
I owned one along with the HK 45C and sold them both. Great guns, typical HK quality, just not for me. I carried an issued 1911 on duty for 7 years and still love them but Glocks and M&P's have my attention these days.

Greg Bell
07-07-09, 20:47
The HK45 is not really the old USP45. It is more closely related to the USP compact. It has ditched the complicated (but classic old-school HK) recoil reduction gizmo. It is pretty much a new gun, but it doesn't deviate much from the current combat pistol model. Pretty much every modern gun out there has the same action (except the arguably not modern Beretta 92). The SIG simplification of the old Browning tilting barrel is pretty much king these days. There hasn't been a "game-changer" since the Glock popped up in the mid-80s. Everything since then has just been a footnote to the G17.

Outrider
07-08-09, 00:25
Isn't that a little unfair? Comparing a "tuned" 1911 to a factory built gun? Let's just say a Wilson or a Nighthawk being compared to a $900 out of the box gun.

What's fair is a matter of perception, but when a person asks whether "X beats the snot out of Y" it would have to be an apples and oranges type of comparison for one to blow the doors off the other. The question was whether the HK45 beats the snot out of the 1911 not does it beat the snot out of a $900 version of the 1911. Maybe the original poster had something particular in mind, but if so he didn't specify which 1911 was to be used for comparison.

I'm not here to argue why I prefer the 1911 to the HK45. Each one has features that give it advantages in certain categories. The HK45 is the beneficiary of many improvements in design and technology but still it's a question of whether it is a better finished product than the 1911. Ultimately, the answer depends on what the individual values more in a pistol. While the HK45 is better than a 1911 in certain areas of comparison, I do not think the disparities are so great that one design has completely vanquished the other. The 1911 design is not obsolete because the HK45 was produced. If it was, then I think you'd have a situation where one "beat the snot" out of the other.

kihnspiracy
07-08-09, 02:53
The HK45 is a superb pistol. I do think the biggest drawback for it, is the price of spare mags.:eek:

Savior 6
07-08-09, 03:50
The HK45 is a great handgun. I don't think however, that the single action on it would compare to the 1911. This would be the only adavntage of the 1911 IMO, but I have never been a 1911 fan. I prefer DA/SA with a decocker. My two favorite handguns are my HK45 and Sig 220 Combat. Having said this, I recognize that the 1911 has and always will be a mainstay in the USA, due to it's SA simplicity. I just believe that weapons like HK45 are an improvement considering that you can put the weapon on safe before you charge (cock) the hammer and can mechanically lower the hammer in a manner that is always safe.

JSandi
07-08-09, 04:24
If I was about to wander off into the abyss of a Mad Max type world the HK45 would be my handgun of choice.

HK built this thing to last and tested it to hell and back, not to mention the military testing it went through.

loupav
07-08-09, 10:47
What's fair is a matter of perception, but when a person asks whether "X beats the snot out of Y" it would have to be an apples and oranges type of comparison for one to blow the doors off the other. The question was whether the HK45 beats the snot out of the 1911 not does it beat the snot out of a $900 version of the 1911. Maybe the original poster had something particular in mind, but if so he didn't specify which 1911 was to be used for comparison.

I'm not here to argue why I prefer the 1911 to the HK45. Each one has features that give it advantages in certain categories. The HK45 is the beneficiary of many improvements in design and technology but still it's a question of whether it is a better finished product than the 1911. Ultimately, the answer depends on what the individual values more in a pistol. While the HK45 is better than a 1911 in certain areas of comparison, I do not think the disparities are so great that one design has completely vanquished the other. The 1911 design is not obsolete because the HK45 was produced. If it was, then I think you'd have a situation where one "beat the snot" out of the other.

Fair enough. But I was not challenging the original poster. I was challenging your quote of a "tuned" 1911 (which I assumed meant a Wilson CQB type weapon) compared to a HK45.

Let me just say. That I love my HK45's. I think they are excellent weapons. The recoil to me felt softer than a USP 45 and I hope to take my HK45 to my next pistol class. However I don't feel qualified to compare a HK45 to a 1911. Due to my lack of trigger time with a 1911.

But the price of magazines does...SUCK!!!! :mad:

HK45
07-10-09, 11:40
The HK 45 was IMO a quick repackaging so it might have better chances of being adopted for the now ill fated US Military Joint Combat Pistol trials. Shooting characteristics and recoil impulse was very similar to a USP.

The HK45 was in development long before the military trials were announced. I was issued 1911's for many years in the USMC and used them in every climate and condition you can think of. I have owned all the top end 1911's. But I will take the HK 45, M&P .45, or G21 FS (in that order) over any 1911. All have outstanding accuracy, ergo's, have far fewer things to go wrong, require much less maintenance, lube and routine parts replacement. I like the big honkin slide on the Hk 45. I even like the standard sights. Big, blocky and easy to see.

if thats not enough sacrilege for you I like 9mm's too.

I've never understood the complaints about mag prices. For one thing they are really well made and for another plenty of other mags cost as much.

dragonfly
07-10-09, 11:52
If thats not enough sacrilege for you I like 9mm's too.


Signature material right there.

Longhorn
07-10-09, 12:40
The HK45 was in development long before the military trials were announced. I was issued 1911's for many years in the USMC and used them in every climate and condition you can think of. I have owned all the top end 1911's. But I will take the HK 45, M&P .45, or G21 FS (in that order) over any 1911. All have outstanding accuracy, ergo's, have far fewer things to go wrong, require much less maintenance, lube and routine parts replacement. I like the big honkin slide on the Hk 45. I even like the standard sights. Big, blocky and easy to see.

if thats not enough sacrilege for you I like 9mm's too.

I've never understood the complaints about mag prices. For one thing they are really well made and for another plenty of other mags cost as much.

I think that's a fairly accurate representation of the HK, M&P and G. Personally, I've only finger fiddled these weapons and I'd have to change the M&P and HK - BUT - that's only cuz the M&P feels more natural to me in hand cuz of where the controls are. Altho the HK does feel like a very fine weapon in typical fashion.

And I think the complaints of mag prices stems from basically being able to find "cheap" magazines for other platforms. I mean you're lookin at what $25ish for Glock mags, $30ish for M&P and 1911, $40ish for Sig and $50+ish for HK. I'm not gonna say quality doesn't demand a price. But after staying with the Glock platform for so long and finding their magazines so cheap some people may get jaded by having to pay double for one mag. (Yeah, I realize we're talkin polymer vs metal but SOME people don't see that).

CarbonCycles
07-10-09, 18:27
It's a great SHTF weapon. Is it refined, no. Is it aesthetically pleasing, debatable. Does the DA/SA trigger suck, you bet in standard HK fashion.

Greg Bell
07-10-09, 19:28
I will have to disagree with CC on this one. The DA is pretty typical DA, and the SA is excellent, certainly better than a factory SIG or Beretta SA (IMHO). The only thing it could use is an over-travel stop.

VA_Dinger
07-10-09, 19:35
I love mine, although I hate paying for the .45 ammo to feed it.

I've only really shot mine SA becuase I carry it "locked & cocked" all of the time. It's an outstanding handgun in my humble opinion. The SA trigger is simply outstanding. Comparing accuracy to a custom 1911 is worthless to me becuase to really notice any difference you would have to be a true world-class top 3%-5% shooter. Those guys are far and few between. Even if some like to play one on the Internet.

For the rest of us we will never be able to "Out-Shoot" the HK45's potential accuracy.

varoadking
07-10-09, 19:36
I've never understood the complaints about mag prices. For one thing they are really well made and for another plenty of other mags cost as much.

For instance?

BTW, all - the HK45 in Light LEM is quite the piece...

loupav
07-11-09, 01:56
I think that's a fairly accurate representation of the HK, M&P and G. Personally, I've only finger fiddled these weapons and I'd have to change the M&P and HK - BUT - that's only cuz the M&P feels more natural to me in hand cuz of where the controls are. Altho the HK does feel like a very fine weapon in typical fashion.

And I think the complaints of mag prices stems from basically being able to find "cheap" magazines for other platforms. I mean you're lookin at what $25ish for Glock mags, $30ish for M&P and 1911, $40ish for Sig and $50+ish for HK. I'm not gonna say quality doesn't demand a price. But after staying with the Glock platform for so long and finding their magazines so cheap some people may get jaded by having to pay double for one mag. (Yeah, I realize we're talkin polymer vs metal but SOME people don't see that).

I think $40-$50 for ONE magazine is reasonable. I use to pay that for my USP 45 magazines. keep in mind I'm in California where I can only have 10 rounders.

Before the panic buying began 10 round USP 45 magazines were $20/ea. 12 round magazines were $50/ea.

In the case of the HK45 magazines there were $50 to begin with. Now they are up to $75/ea. That's just ridiculous.

Yes I understand that HK is an expensive weapon and factory parts are going to be expensive as well. I know that, I accept that. But in THIS case I think it's price gouging. Perhaps not on the Part of HK, but on the retailer(s) end of it.

CarbonCycles
07-11-09, 13:34
I will have to disagree with CC on this one. The DA is pretty typical DA, and the SA is excellent, certainly better than a factory SIG or Beretta SA (IMHO). The only thing it could use is an over-travel stop.

Greg, I don't think we're disagreeing. I personally do NOT like the DA/SA mechanism; the DA is honestly terrible IMO, but as you said, the SA works well - IMO not as well as a dedicated SA mechanism (i.e. 1911). Lately, I've been migrating towards DA/LEM variants only, and as heretic as this may sound, I've been carrying and shooting my Glocks more than the HKs (you couldn't pry the P7 out of my cold hands).

Regardless, it's good to see the "Break my HK" thread being continued over here as well as the P30 eval.

Longhorn
07-11-09, 14:27
I think $40-$50 for ONE magazine is reasonable. I use to pay that for my USP 45 magazines. keep in mind I'm in California where I can only have 10 rounders.

Before the panic buying began 10 round USP 45 magazines were $20/ea. 12 round magazines were $50/ea.

In the case of the HK45 magazines there were $50 to begin with. Now they are up to $75/ea. That's just ridiculous.

Yes I understand that HK is an expensive weapon and factory parts are going to be expensive as well. I know that, I accept that. But in THIS case I think it's price gouging. Perhaps not on the Part of HK, but on the retailer(s) end of it.

Yeah, but you're already used to dealing with that.

I'm talkin about the guy who likes the HK45 but already has maybe a M&P45, 1911, G21, P220 etc. Those guys aren't so used to that price point and are going to be a little turned off by having to pay more for magazines.

dobe
07-11-09, 17:01
HK45 mags at $75. I'll sell mine before I pay that. I really like the HK45, but it has one major flaw; two from what I just read about the mag. price. The DA sucks and sucks bad. The SA if nice. The overall package is one great handgun. I enjoy shooting it, and it rivals the accuracy of 1911's.

The P30, on the other hand, has a decent DA. It stacks, but at least it is smooth. The SA on the P30 isn't as good as the HK45, but it's not bad.

I'm still keeping the HK45, as long as I can find mags at a decent price.

Apollo11
07-11-09, 19:20
My HK45's trigger in DA is better than the new Sig DA triggers out there. It is a bit long, but it's not too bad. Is yours US or German made?

brianc142
07-11-09, 19:37
For around $60.00, return shipping included, Bill Springfield will make the DA trigger very nice and the SA even better. I no longer have my HK 45 but Bill did a nice trigger job on mine before I sold it.

gtmtnbiker98
07-11-09, 19:46
I'll just be glad to be able to find some .45 ammo to feed my HK45. That way, I can grip with the rest of you about how crappy the DA trigger is. Tried to find some ammo today, no joy.

Greg Bell
07-11-09, 20:01
Griping about the DA is like griping about the restrike mode on the P2000--nearly pointless. Especially if you carry C&L.

ToddG
07-11-09, 21:16
For around $60.00, return shipping included, Bill Springfield will make the DA trigger very nice and the SA even better. I no longer have my HK 45 but Bill did a nice trigger job on mine before I sold it.

Has Springfield secured an FFL? Last I knew (per HKPRO.com) he didn't have one.

curriek
07-11-09, 21:39
Can't really compare the full size 45... but I had the USPc and the HK45c and I like the original USPc better. Didn't like the HK45c's trigger or safety placement. Seemed a bit out of place compared to the USPc.

The interchangeble backstraps was a nice try, but it didn't seem like there was a big difference. With the S&W M&P backstraps, I can definitely feel the difference. I think the HK is way too pricey to not come with metal tritium night sights. If money were no option I think I would get an HK again. It just seems to me like there are more economical, and better value options out there.

dobe
07-11-09, 22:55
My HK45's trigger in DA is better than the new Sig DA triggers out there. It is a bit long, but it's not too bad. Is yours US or German made? German


Griping about the DA is like griping about the restrike mode on the P2000--nearly pointless. Especially if you carry C&L. Not everyone does.

BT2012
07-12-09, 14:43
I own both, HK45 and custom 1911s. They are both excellent guns in their own design but if you shoot thousands of rounds through each this is where the difference comes into play . The 1911 will require gunsmithing when you have to replace and tune all the internal parts as well as refitting the slide and frame. With an HK45, you just replace the part(s) with no adjustment and you're good to go. Greg has already posted a sticky on his HK45 and you can read the endurance he has put his through. No one has yet posted a sticky on a 1911 conducting a test similar to Greg's HK45.

To the OP, does the HK45 kick the snot out of a 1911? The answer is Yes, IF no change of parts or gunsmithing are included. The answer is No, IF you don't do a high volume of shooting. A 1911 will require more care in keeping it running reliably as oppose to HK45. Other than that, I would equally choose either one for self defense or carry out in the field.

Jake0331
07-12-09, 17:43
For a military secondary, an HK45 or other quality SA/DA defeats a 1911 of any standard and on any battlefield. Safer to carry, hi-cap, more reliable.

A quality 1911 can outshoot an HK45, but the tight tolerances don't allow the same reliability in rough environs. And I'm a 1911 guy; just not in combat.

If I were to carry a 1911 for a tactical application, I'd take a standard GI over my Loaded Operator just because of the looser tolerances.

calvin118
07-19-09, 15:01
I recently picked up a slightly used HK45 after finding an offer I couldn't refuse. I'm no expert, but here are my thoughts:

It is extremely pleasant to shoot. There is no 'snap' or appreciable felt recoil although there is a bit of muzzle flip. I have found that the muzzle flip is very relative to how the gun is held. After experimenting a bit, I found a thumbs forward position that keeps it under good control and allows for fast follow up shots. Some people have stated that the full sized HK45 has excessive flip, while the 45c does not. I suspect the muzzle flip issue is relative to individual hands/grips. Although the gun works well for me this will be a problem for some.

The single action is excellent and far exceeded my expectations. I have about the largest hands you could imagine (6'8", size 17 shoe) and I have no issue with my finger getting pinched. It is light, crisp, and very easy to control. The double action really is bad, although it is a lot more pleasant if you use the decocker first. In any case, the double action is irrelevant to me and probably most people due to the cocked/locked option.

The decocking lever is a bit farther back on the gun than I would have liked it, and it took a bit of adjustment. I have not had any problems with accidental de-cocking, as the lever really does require a lot more force to decock than to unlock.

As others have stated, the gun is incredibly ergonomic and accurate.

On the downside, the night sights really are terrible and will only stay charged for a few hours.

All in all, I am very happy with the HK45. If you dismiss the finger pinch issue and the risk of de-cocking (as I have) the only real down sides to this gun are the night sights and the price. The night sights can be easily remedied, but the price off the gun and magazines might be a good enough reason for a lot of people to pick up the m&p instead. If you consider what trustworthy sources have said about reliability and durability, I'd definitely take it over a 1911 all things considered.