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mattpittinger
08-04-09, 12:52
I am an M&P owner and official Kool-Aid drinker. I get asked all the time why I feel that the M&P is superior to the Glock. My usual response is not that it is not better, but rather that it has some improvements that I felt were good for the Glock "platform". For example, the stainless slide, REAL sights, interchangeable back strap, and ergonomics that fit most any hand. I know that we have a lot of M&P supporters on this site, so my question to you is "What is so great about the M&P?". Why have you picked this as your gun? How do you respond to the question "Why is the M&P better than a Glock?

High Tower
08-04-09, 14:01
I don't know if its better, per se. But you touched on all the reasons I like them more. That, and its more left hander friendly. My hands just don't fit the Glock finger grooves by any stretch of the imagination.

Business_Casual
08-04-09, 14:21
I am one that has come down from the kool aide high of the M&P. They are more mechanically accurate than Glocks. The main advantage is the incorporation of the chassis inside the frame and the improved and drop free magazine.

However, the trigger is worse, the rear sight holds in some important parts (and has to be removed to service them). In my opinion, the mag catch will have to prove itself over the same life span of a Glock - it just doesn't strike me as robust or wear resistant.

M_P

pleaforwar
08-04-09, 14:29
OT - why does everyone with less than 100 posts feel compelled to tell us that they don't like the grip angle and/or the finger grooves on Glocks? Does anyone care or does that somehow add to the debate?

M_P

I have beat that horse into the ground over and over again. You never see service members crying about the grip angle of the M9 because it is the gun they are issued. They adapt and overcome. I laugh when I present a reliable gun and a proven unreliable gun (not talking about the M&P) and the individual picks the unreliable gun because it feels like pillows in their hands. It's a tool gents, not furniture.

High Tower
08-04-09, 14:57
I guess I'm not clear on the issue.

If I'm paying money for a personal use firearm, I want the grip to be comfortable. Its obviously a personal thing since the grooves fit some hands better than others. While not the most important thing to look for, its still a factor.

Duty guns are an entirely different matter altogether.

Business_Casual
08-04-09, 15:03
Let's stay on topic and not let this become an argument because of what I said. I apologize to all.

M_P

ToddG
08-04-09, 15:20
I'm dumbfounded by people who argue that ergonomic options like replaceable backstraps, grip panels, etc. are bad. Look at how many people get grip reductions on their Glocks ... clue.

If a Glock works well for you -- and it obviously works very well for many people -- then great. But you're burying your head in the sand if you cannot admit that there are also people for whom the Glock grip simply does not fit well. It's not an accident that just about every polymer handgun design in the past decade has incorporated adjustable grips of some sort.

To answer the OP, the main differences I see with the M&P that are used as sales points over the Glock:


adjustable grip ergonomics
reduced recoil (especially in .40 S&W & 357 versions)
better mechanical accuracy on average
all-steel chassis
no need to pull trigger during takedown procedure
made in the USA
availability of mag disconnect and thumb safety variants
all-metal magazines


Whether these specific differences will be seen as improvements by any particular purchaser, of course, is going to vary from person to person. But the rate at which the M&P has spread into the LE market is certainly telling compared to any other handgun design since the Glock.

og556
08-04-09, 15:29
I've owned a Glock 17, 19 and m&p 9 full size and I loved the m&p's ergonomics the best. My only complaint about the m&p was the trigger because it had a longer reset than the glocks and felt heavier.

If it had a better trigger I would be all over one again.

John_Wayne777
08-04-09, 16:52
The trigger is the biggest complaint I have with the M&P in its stock configuration. Todd's gun fixes that issue. Why S&W won't make that the standard configuration I do not know.

They'd sell more guns.

As to the rest, what Todd said. Once you get the trigger dealt with, the M&P is an exceptionally easy weapon to shoot and to run efficiently. It doesn't chop me up like a Glock does and I can configure it to best suit my needs pretty easily rather than just having to deal with it. I was messing with a few of my guns last night comparing them to my M&P and frankly none of them fits as well or is as easy to do weapon manipulations with as my M&P.

JSantoro
08-04-09, 17:37
How do you respond to the question "Why is the M&P better than a Glock?

In line with what Todd says, I'd be shooting a Glock if the .45 variants fit my hands; too fat + grip angle issues = I don't shoot them well. Even bearing in mind that I'm not overjoyed with how my hands fit them, if I could shoot them better than anything else, I'd own one.

That said, when asked, I don't have anything bad to say about Glock/XD/M&P, but that I've tried them all and found that I was more accurate with the M&P .45 (so far as THAT goes :p), and more comfortably, than with any of the others. Now that I have a choice of what sidearm to use, I went with what works best for me, and not for the middle of the bell curve of the military population.

All references I may make to cons/limitations/problems are all couched in terms of the relationship between the platform and my ability to shoot it with reasonable accuracy, reasonable comfort, and what I define as my view of resonable cost (.45 usually ain't cheap, but I'm still only buying 2 calibers between 2 pistols and what will be 2 rifles, eventually).

There's tons of places in the N. VA area for folks to rent handguns and shoot them, and I tell those that ask that they don't have a hair on their ass if they don't try out 5 or 6 different handguns and figure it out for themselves. Maybe 2 of 10 actually take that tack, because people in our instant-gratification society are generally too mentally lazy to differentiate between informed guidance and recommendation.

Pappabear
08-04-09, 17:38
I would like to see Smith give the option to get the "Pro" trigger as in my M&P 9mm Pro. Great trigger, reset and sights. I am very impressed with that gun.

pleaforwar
08-04-09, 18:18
I guess I'm not clear on the issue.

If I'm paying money for a personal use firearm, I want the grip to be comfortable. Its obviously a personal thing since the grooves fit some hands better than others. While not the most important thing to look for, its still a factor.

Duty guns are an entirely different matter altogether.

You see, in your case it may not be the most important matter, but for 99.999999% of the customers I have dealt with that is ALL that mattered with them. (I used to work at a gun store)

pleaforwar
08-04-09, 18:24
I'm dumbfounded by people who argue that ergonomic options like replaceable backstraps, grip panels, etc. are bad. Look at how many people get grip reductions on their Glocks ... clue.

If a Glock works well for you -- and it obviously works very well for many people -- then great. But you're burying your head in the sand if you cannot admit that there are also people for whom the Glock grip simply does not fit well. It's not an accident that just about every polymer handgun design in the past decade has incorporated adjustable grips of some sort.


Whether these specific differences will be seen as improvements by any particular purchaser, of course, is going to vary from person to person. But the rate at which the M&P has spread into the LE market is certainly telling compared to any other handgun design since the Glock.

I'm going to guess you were speaking of me. I never said that these were bad options, the only point I was trying to make is that SOOO many shooters discredit the Glock because of grip angle/finger grooves etc. I have even had shooters do it while I was clearing their malfunctioning weapon.

The M&P is a great design, there really isn't anything about it that I don't like. I do enjoy the backstraps and I do think it feels great in my hands. The only reason I don't own one now is because I am a full-time student and can't afford one at the moment. So please don't take my earlier comments as pot-shots at the M&P line.

High Tower
08-04-09, 18:40
I know where you're coming from - I'm a manager at a shop back home. And I agree with you. The Taurus comes to mind in this particular instance. Still in all, the last Glock I bought was a Gen 2 entirely because of the grip issue. Mostly because I have ogre hands.

I'm not trying to knock the Glock; I just think the M&P has a few better features.

Telecomtodd
08-04-09, 18:41
A set of Wolff springs, a trigger sear polish job, a set of Novak adjustable fiber optic sights, and a 5" Storm Lake compensated competition barrel works for me.

A week ago I was practicing double taps for USPSA shooting and pumped a number of identical side by side figure-eights into the paper at 7 yards. It's a workhorse, accurate, ergonomic, and configurable.

Now if I could only be as accurate during a USPSA match...maybe I need Todd's class.

ToddG
08-04-09, 21:22
I'm going to guess you were speaking of me.

Nope, not pointing out anyone in particular. The "only sissies need adjustable grips" whine is pretty common among some folks and like I said, I just don't get it.

JiMfraRED1911
08-04-09, 21:30
* the steel chassis is brilliant

* interchangeable backstraps (nice feature for service pistols)

* more well thought out in .40 S&W

* actual MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny rail interface

* IMO, better sights

* IMO, metal mags, although GLOCK mags are amazing

Ed L.
08-04-09, 22:21
I would like to see Smith give the option to get the "Pro" trigger as in my M&P 9mm Pro. Great trigger, reset and sights. I am very impressed with that gun.

Doesn't the M&P Pro come with the Pro trigger?

Robb Jensen
08-04-09, 22:41
I am one that has come down from the kool aide high of the M&P. They are more mechanically accurate than Glocks. The main advantage is the incorporation of the chassis inside the frame and the improved and drop free magazine.

However, the factory trigger is worse, the rear sight holds in some important parts (and has to be removed to service them). In my opinion, the mag catch will have to prove itself over the same life span of a Glock - it just doesn't strike me as robust or wear resistant.

M_P

Fixed it for you. ;)

My M&Ps are just as reliable if not more reliable than my Glocks. Factory trigger vs. tuned Pro trigger w/shortened reset and the Pro smokes the Glock even ones with a shortened reset and 3.5lb connector. The Glock is easier to repair as parts availability is better with the Glock as it should be since the Glock has been on the US market since the 1980s. A shot timer says I shoot a M&P faster and more accurately than a Glock. The timer doesn't lie.

RogerinTPA
08-04-09, 23:40
The trigger is the biggest complaint I have with the M&P in its stock configuration. Exactly, but after shooting the piss out of them, I've gotten quite used to them.:eek:


Why S&W won't make that the standard configuration I do not know.They'd sell more guns. Preach it brother!



As to the rest, what Todd said. Once you get the trigger dealt with, the M&P is an exceptionally easy weapon to shoot and to run efficiently. It doesn't chop me up like a Glock does and I can configure it to best suit my needs pretty easily rather than just having to deal with it. I was messing with a few of my guns last night comparing them to my M&P and frankly none of them fits as well or is as easy to do weapon manipulations with as my M&P.

Could not agree more.

emt370
08-05-09, 00:31
Is there really an issue with GLOCK mags? They are fully metal-lined with the polymer outer covering. I always looked at this as a benefit, not a disadvantage as they are basically indestructible and I don't have to worry about dinging them up.

variablebinary
08-05-09, 01:32
I've grown to like the M&P, especially the .45, but overall I still prefer Glock.

If it all went to shit tomorrow, I would want a Glock over everything else.

John_Wayne777
08-05-09, 08:54
Is there really an issue with GLOCK mags? They are fully metal-lined with the polymer outer covering. I always looked at this as a benefit, not a disadvantage as they are basically indestructible and I don't have to worry about dinging them up.

The issue is that sometimes they don't want to drop free. During my recent trip to Blackwater/USTC just about every Glock shooter I watched had trouble with his mags hanging up in the mag well at some point.

I, an M&P shooter, had no such problems. Of course, that could just be because I'm awesome.

Business_Casual
08-05-09, 10:09
Guilty. And creamed on the timer on a couple of occasions because of it. :cool:

The dropped shots were me just ganking the trigger though. ;)

M_P

John_Wayne777
08-05-09, 10:52
Guilty. And creamed on the timer on a couple of occasions because of it. :cool:

The dropped shots were me just ganking the trigger though. ;)

M_P

You were one...but it happened to Dinger, to Looey, to our Italian friend, and even to Jason and Kyle as they were teaching the Tac 1 class. There was some seriously bad mag-ejection mojo going on down at Moyock.

ToddG
08-05-09, 14:14
Polymer gun + polymer mag + polymer mag catch + heat + sand = duh.

Remember, Glock was originally designed specifically so the magazines would not fall free when empty.

dookie1481
08-05-09, 15:15
Remember, Glock was originally designed specifically so the magazines would not fall free when empty.

Why?

Jay

Business_Casual
08-05-09, 15:17
Why?

Jay

So Austrian 2nd Lt.s wouldn't have to get new magazines every time they came back from a FX.

M_P

dookie1481
08-05-09, 16:52
So Austrian 2nd Lt.s wouldn't have to get new magazines every time they came back from a FX.

M_P

LMAO

Jay

emt370
08-05-09, 18:41
Polymer gun + polymer mag + polymer mag catch + heat + sand = duh.

Remember, Glock was originally designed specifically so the magazines would not fall free when empty.

Maybe I just never had this issue, but I thought that was the intended purpose the older non-fully metal lined mags since they bulge when loaded in the magwell. I don't think US customers have bought these in quite some time and the fully-lined ones seem pretty solid. I don't get a chance to attend many classes, but that just hasn't been my experience. Something I'll look for though.

ToddG
08-05-09, 23:32
NML mags are almost never seen in classes and matches. But the metal lined versions, while more likely to drop, still aren't close to guaranteed. That's why Glock stops short of calling them actual "drop free" magazines.

Icculus
08-05-09, 23:50
The trigger is the biggest complaint I have with the M&P in its stock configuration. Todd's gun fixes that issue. Why S&W won't make that the standard configuration I do not know.


Todd, I'm guessing you've posted this a bunch and may be sick of doing so but my searches are coming up empty. Can you expound more on what trigger changes you've made to the M&P? Thanks

ToddG
08-06-09, 00:14
"Pro" sear for reduced trigger pull weight and cleaner break.

Then add the "MA" trigger bar and trigger return spring, which increases trigger pull weight but gives a much faster, much more positive reset.

End result is a trigger pull that is a bit heavier than stock when you put weights to it, but simply provides a more shootable mechanism in terms of accuracy at speed. If you've ever tried the Glock 3.5 (aka 4.5) connector and NY1 trigger spring combo, it's similar in concept to that.

spamsammich
08-06-09, 02:49
Are the MA trigger bar and spring readily available parts and where can I purchase them?

ToddG
08-06-09, 11:23
Last I knew, S&W was not selling them through any normal channels.

Buckaroo
08-06-09, 14:17
Last I knew, S&W was not selling them through any normal channels.

Man I wish this would change, I bet S&W would sell a bunch of aftermarket trigger sears if the released a DIY Pro upgrade kit! I would be in for several.

Buckaroo

ra2bach
08-06-09, 14:23
I would like to see Smith give the option to get the "Pro" trigger as in my M&P 9mm Pro. Great trigger, reset and sights. I am very impressed with that gun.

really? the reset on my Pro sucks. these pistols are a reset away from perfect...

Pappabear
08-06-09, 19:18
My Pro is very new, maybe they got better or maybe I got a good one?

Heavy Metal
08-06-09, 20:21
Why?

Jay


Proababally so the Austrian Army would not have a mag sink in a snow drift.

At least that is my Hypothesis.

Razorhunter
08-06-09, 20:38
Only problem I'm having with my M&P45 is finding a damn QUALITY LEATHER holster that is available NOW.
I would be happy with a nice Galco even.
I'd just like to see a nice standard hip holster design or two, WITHOUT cheezy thumbreaks/etc.
Standard open top holster for the M&P45. Anyone got any suggestions?

Hell, I guess I'll even consider a top of the line kydex/polymer holster for now.
What say guys? What are you all using? Do the M&P9/40 holsters also fit the 45's or no?

R Moran
08-06-09, 20:50
Don Hume H721 OT

Most of the big name Kydex guys have something for the M&P's

Bob

Business_Casual
08-07-09, 09:28
Standard open top holster for the M&P45. Anyone got any suggestions?


Kydex - Raven Concealment or Blade Tech.


Hell, I guess I'll even consider a top of the line kydex/polymer holster for now. What say guys? What are you all using? Do the M&P9/40 holsters also fit the 45's or no?

Sort of. I cut the end off of a 9 holster and the 45 would fit, but it was IWB. I didn't try to modify an OWB.

M_P

ra2bach
08-07-09, 11:52
My Pro is very new, maybe they got better or maybe I got a good one?

hmmmm, maybe. mine was one of the first available. I hope they have been constantly improving the product line as it matures.

that said, I'm not complaining. I shoot my M&P PRO better and faster than ANY gun I own, and that includes my lone 1911 which was my favorite till this one.

ra2bach
08-07-09, 12:04
Only problem I'm having with my M&P45 is finding a damn QUALITY LEATHER holster that is available NOW.
I would be happy with a nice Galco even.
I'd just like to see a nice standard hip holster design or two, WITHOUT cheezy thumbreaks/etc.
Standard open top holster for the M&P45. Anyone got any suggestions?

Hell, I guess I'll even consider a top of the line kydex/polymer holster for now.
What say guys? What are you all using? Do the M&P9/40 holsters also fit the 45's or no?

I've got a couple of holsters for Andrews Custom Leather that I like a lot. you might want to give him a call.

http://www.andrewsleather.com/

http://www.andrewsleather.com/saddle_a.jpg

Pappabear
08-07-09, 12:37
Often times they do improve the product line over time. Maybe my fingers is not as sophisticated as yours. I agree, I shoot this gun, almost as good as my 1911. Maybe in time as good. I really do like the sights, because at 47, the rear dots are blurry anyway and a crisp front sight works for me.

maximus83
08-07-09, 12:51
My Pro is very new, maybe they got better or maybe I got a good one?

I have a newer Pro as well, and have been very pleased with it including the trigger. In fact, I will probably keep the trigger stock.

What I like about the M&P overall (and why I have 3, and plan to get another):

* Better grips and controls. For a lefty, the ambi controls are nice. I also like the grip ANGLE (which is very 1911-like), the low bore axis, and the small backstrap. Even though I have big hands, I like being able to have the pistol in a slim profile, like my 1911's.

* Reliability. Although I had some early issues with strikers breaking due to a lot of dry firing (mine broke even WITH snap caps, sadly), S&W has redesigned and updated the striker, and it appears they have eliminated or at least reduced this bug. Not certain about that, but I've had no further issues.

* Better accuracy than with most other plastic pistols I've tried. Only other pistols that could compete with the M&P for accuracy, in my hands, were the new Springfield XDM, and the new FN pistols.

* The mag system. I like the M&P mags, they work well, they're reliable, they come apart easily for cleaning. And for me, they've always been easy to remove/insert. Have never had issues with them falling out.

* The looks. I don't really care THAT much about the look of a working pistol, but these are wicked-looking guns, IMHO.

* Soaks up recoil. I'm amazed at how much better the M&P soaks up recoil, compared to most pistols out there and especially compared to Glocks and the older XD's.

LonghunterCO
08-07-09, 14:18
Hell, I guess I'll even consider a top of the line kydex/polymer holster for now.
What say guys? What are you all using? Do the M&P9/40 holsters also fit the 45's or no?

Not sure in the .45 to 9mm/40mm compatability, but as to kydex recomendations the M&P9 and the Raven holster is a winning combo for me.

varoadking
08-07-09, 17:45
"Why is the M&P better than a Glock?

No clue...I can't get past the droopy dustcover. It looks like it's gona fall off...

Glock - 7 / M&P - 0

HK45
08-07-09, 23:08
They don't have a choice. We do.

I was in the Marine Corps when we were forced to take the M9. Nobody wanted it as the 1911/.45 was the holy grail. The Marine Corps and many units went to great lengths to avoid having to use it but in the end were ordered to by DOD. So I guess the Marine Corps was crying about it and failed to adapt and overcome....the high speed low drag units that still use the 1911/.45 must have really failed huh.


I have beat that horse into the ground over and over again. You never see service members crying about the grip angle of the M9 because it is the gun they are issued. They adapt and overcome. I laugh when I present a reliable gun and a proven unreliable gun (not talking about the M&P) and the individual picks the unreliable gun because it feels like pillows in their hands. It's a tool gents, not furniture.

HK45
08-07-09, 23:08
I can't say enough good things about Raven holsters. I have them for various M&P's, HK's, and Glocks.

As to the M&P;
Best ergo's in the business.
Compact size for a full size pistol.
Accurate
Excellent fit and finish, now that they have been out awhile anyway.
Great service from Smith.
I like the trigger. Not as positive a reset as Glock but more comfortable and controllable over long round counts.
Good out of the box sights compared to some others..Glock.
Easiest to shoot rapidly and accurately with snappy loads like .40. Really tames the .40 round and .45 in rapid fire.
Popularity means lots of accessories.
A bargain for the price.


Not sure in the .45 to 9mm/40mm compatability, but as to kydex recomendations the M&P9 and the Raven holster is a winning combo for me.

HK45
08-07-09, 23:18
Because they are trained to pull the mag free and toss it to the rear or retain it.


Why?

Jay

BAC
08-07-09, 23:27
Are the thumb safety versions capable of cocked and locked carry?

My priority handgun purchase is a snubby, but after that I was planning on a Glock 17 or 19. The first time I looked at and handled the M&P I wasn't impressed, but I've learned a bit since. Might have to give the M&P another look, shoot it side-by-side with a Glock and see which one I do better with. Both will feel odd coming from a 1911.


-B

Gewehr3
08-08-09, 01:01
You can carry the M&P with a round in the chamber with the thumb safety on or off. Also, the thumb safety does not lock the slide like on a 1911.

BAC
08-08-09, 17:42
Cool, thank you. I assume then that the M&P is drop safe, or at least as safe as dropping my 1911?


-B

joshs
08-08-09, 18:34
BAC, the M&P has an internal safety that blocks the forward movement of the striker unless the trigger is pulled. So yes the M&P is at least as drop safe as your 1911.

Telecomtodd
08-08-09, 20:05
One "feature" is a little dangerous but I like it.

When I'm reloading and slamming a mag in fast, it will cause the slide to close, loading a round and going into battery. Saves me a step when I'm shooting USPSA. However, you're locked and cocked...

BAC
08-09-09, 00:45
BAC, the M&P has an internal safety that blocks the forward movement of the striker unless the trigger is pulled. So yes the M&P is at least as drop safe as your 1911.

Awesome, thanks.


-B

kmrtnsn
08-09-09, 01:06
"One "feature" is a little dangerous but I like it.

When I'm reloading and slamming a mag in fast, it will cause the slide to close, loading a round and going into battery. Saves me a step when I'm shooting USPSA. However, you're locked and cocked..."

ANY auto will do this with enough applied force. It is also the easiest way to induce a double feed, not the greatest "technique" to use either in competition or tactically.

ztf HITMAN
08-09-09, 03:07
Damn...This quickly went from a 'why do you like your M&P' thread to a 'Glock vs. M&P' thread....

First off: Glocks are exceptional handguns.

More to the intended point of this thread: I think my M&P is great because:

--The recoil of my full size 40 is very manageable and helps follow up shots come a little easier.

--The interchangeable backstraps are a plus.

--Holy Cow!!! It's an accurate gun!!

--For a full size, it conceals pretty good.

--I just freaking like it!!

QuickStrike
08-09-09, 05:45
"One "feature" is a little dangerous but I like it.

When I'm reloading and slamming a mag in fast, it will cause the slide to close, loading a round and going into battery. Saves me a step when I'm shooting USPSA. However, you're locked and cocked..."

ANY auto will do this with enough applied force. It is also the easiest way to induce a double feed, not the greatest "technique" to use either in competition or tactically.

Yea, my full size .45 one does this while my other polymer framed pistols don't (3 glock 19's, two other M&P's). Not as easily anyway.

I don't like it as it sometime causes the round to not feed all the way...

I specifically check for this with any pistol I buy now, with a dummy round in the mag and permission of course.

RogerinTPA
08-09-09, 11:33
One "feature" is a little dangerous but I like it.

When I'm reloading and slamming a mag in fast, it will cause the slide to close, loading a round and going into battery. Saves me a step when I'm shooting USPSA. However, you're locked and cocked...

It only happens under the conditions you describe. I don't consider it dangerous, because it doesn't slam fire. An unexpected tendency, yes, dangerous, no. As long as you are aware of this tendency and follow the four rules, you will be fine. It happens to all of mine (4 M&Ps) if I do this during speed reloads, and slam the mags in, but I look at it as one less step I don't have to do, to get back up and running. FWIW, I've never had the slide go forward without chambering a round, but it's always good to check the loaded chamber indicator (hole) or a press check for peace of mind.

Razorhunter
08-09-09, 20:48
Which style of holster/belt attachment are all of you BladeTech guys using?
On this page, I see 4 options. Stingray, DOH, Teklock, and Paddle.

I have only ever used Teklock and Paddle designs myself, and quite honestly, I've always preferred a holster that has regular belt loops (as on leather holsters) to run a belt through.
I never liked the Teklock items I once owned, because they always had a tendency to pop pop out, and swivel around, but maybe this Bladetech Teklock actually "LOCKS" in place, and cannot swivel or pop out?

Just based on looks, I'm thinking that Stingray attachment method might be nice, but I honestly can't be sure with those mediocre pics.

What do you guys prefer? Got any pros/cons?
I'm basically using the holster for typical/standard carry, mostly at the range/etc, but possibly some CCW.
I might even like to try this Bladetech in a handgun class or two. Is the DOH the best option for a class?
Just trying to get some opinions on the Bladetech attachment options here.
Thanks guys.

http://www.speedshooterspecialties.com/catalog/search.php?submit=submit&categories=Smith+%26+Wesson+M%26P+45&subcategories=RH+Holsters

Ian
08-10-09, 01:39
My M&P 45 won't fit in my Raven holster for my M&P9 and it's not the length of the barrel, but the length between the trigger guard and the grip - I think (FWIW). As far as the trigger issue goes, with the 9, I simply polished the contact points and then shot the *ss off it. Everyone who has shot this pistol has commented how good the trigger feels, and Glock shooters comment on the short, positive reset. I have noticed that this trigger after polishing has only a single reset click, rather than the 'false' reset that it had new, the break is right around 4 lbs and feels like a 2 stage rifle trigger.

Cincinnatus
11-12-09, 13:33
Only problem I'm having with my M&P45 is finding a damn QUALITY LEATHER holster that is available NOW.
I would be happy with a nice Galco even.
I'd just like to see a nice standard hip holster design or two, WITHOUT cheezy thumbreaks/etc.
Standard open top holster for the M&P45. Anyone got any suggestions?

Hell, I guess I'll even consider a top of the line kydex/polymer holster for now.
What say guys? What are you all using? Do the M&P9/40 holsters also fit the 45's or no?

SA XD45 leather holsters fit the M&P 40, don't know about .45. You can get the Fletch holster from Galco and just cut off the thumb break if you don't like it. :cool:

John_Wayne777
11-12-09, 16:44
Which style of holster/belt attachment are all of you BladeTech guys using?
On this page, I see 4 options. Stingray, DOH, Teklock, and Paddle.

I have only ever used Teklock and Paddle designs myself, and quite honestly, I've always preferred a holster that has regular belt loops (as on leather holsters) to run a belt through.
I never liked the Teklock items I once owned, because they always had a tendency to pop pop out, and swivel around, but maybe this Bladetech Teklock actually "LOCKS" in place, and cannot swivel or pop out?

Just based on looks, I'm thinking that Stingray attachment method might be nice, but I honestly can't be sure with those mediocre pics.

What do you guys prefer? Got any pros/cons?


I haven't bought a Blade Tech product since they did away with the traditional folded loop design. Tek-Lock works fine for mag pouches and light/OC holsters, but I don't like them for a weapon holster as the screws tend to work loose, in my experience.

The stringray thing sucks donkey balls, in my opinion.

Ian
11-14-09, 05:31
Raven Concealment makes excellent Kydex holsters for the M&P (all types) they even specify with or without thumb safety. The fit is tight enough to retain without requiring a letter from your boss to draw - in fact it's the only Kydex I've seen where you can identify the pistol it's made for by looking at the holster. It's premium quality but the cost isn't out to lunch, and you'll be in pretty good company packing in a Raven holster. Also you can set the holster up to carry inside/outside/pancake etc. by changing the fasteners, so you don't need to buy 3 holsters for one gun.

maximus83
11-14-09, 17:21
I am one that has come down from the kool aide high of the M&P. They are more mechanically accurate than Glocks. The main advantage is the incorporation of the chassis inside the frame and the improved and drop free magazine.

However, the trigger is worse, the rear sight holds in some important parts (and has to be removed to service them). In my opinion, the mag catch will have to prove itself over the same life span of a Glock - it just doesn't strike me as robust or wear resistant.

M_P

I agree with many of the positive reasons for the M&P that were stated above, and especially the LH friendliness.

About the trigger, I agree but in a qualified way: I think the M&P trigger is worse initially, out of the box. But somewhat similar to a 1911 trigger, I think that an M&P trigger has more POTENTIAL to be a better trigger than a Glock trigger. In other words, at its BEST, after it has been well broken in or especially if it is given a $75 to $100 trigger job by someone who knows what they're doing, an M&P trigger (in my humble opinion) is preferable to the Glock trigger.

I don't know about the mag catch; haven't had any problems with mine, but then I don't have enough total rounds through my various M&P's yet for that to be an issue.

Pi3
11-23-09, 16:17
The trigger is the biggest complaint I have with the M&P in its stock configuration. Todd's gun fixes that issue. Why S&W won't make that the standard configuration I do not know.

They'd sell more guns.

As to the rest, what Todd said. Once you get the trigger dealt with, the M&P is an exceptionally easy weapon to shoot and to run efficiently. It doesn't chop me up like a Glock does and I can configure it to best suit my needs pretty easily rather than just having to deal with it. I was messing with a few of my guns last night comparing them to my M&P and frankly none of them fits as well or is as easy to do weapon manipulations with as my M&P.

What does "chop me up" mean. I rented a glock 17 & shot so much my trigger finger was getting numb from the split trigger. I never even noticed the finger grooves. The grip angle wasn't an issue either ( I shoot a sig 226 which seems a bit too vertical for my tastes). Is the M&P as rust resistant as the glock? How many of you have the safety on their M&P's? I love the way the S&W fits my hand, but would definitely have the trigger reset worked on if I get one.

silentsod
11-24-09, 02:07
What does "chop me up" mean. I rented a glock 17 & shot so much my trigger finger was getting numb from the split trigger. I never even noticed the finger grooves. The grip angle wasn't an issue either ( I shoot a sig 226 which seems a bit too vertical for my tastes). Is the M&P as rust resistant as the glock? How many of you have the safety on their M&P's? I love the way the S&W fits my hand, but would definitely have the trigger reset worked on if I get one.

Hopefully I'll be corrected if I'm wrong; I believe he's referring to "slide bite" that a number of Glock shooters get on the web of their hand by having a nice high grip on the backstrap of the gun.

The grip angle of a Glock didn't bother me as much as I thought it would. I rarely present a perfect sight picture with my 1911 and the Glock was simply high and easy enough to correct using the three bumps on the slide.

I need to get some time behind an M&P.

John_Wayne777
11-24-09, 08:43
What does "chop me up" mean.


It means that the Glock digs train-tracks into my hands with the slide.



Is the M&P as rust resistant as the glock?


The meolniting process is basically identical to the tennifer process used by Glock.



How many of you have the safety on their M&P's?


I tried the safety on a .45 version of the M&P but I personally didn't like it as much as the 1911's safety. I didn't put much time into the weapon, however, as I needed to fund something else and got rid of the pistol fairly quickly.

Gutshot John
11-24-09, 10:45
As a Glock fan I'd tell you that the M&P points much better for me and has a lot going for it outside of the obvious virtues of being ambi and with interchangeable backstraps.

Yes 9mm Glocks are brutally reliable, but it turns out I shoot the M&P much better. In any other caliber I'd definitely go with the M&P.

The main two complaints about the M&P I've heard have been the large beavertail and the plastic mag base pads. I don't see why they couldn't make a metal baseplate if they can make a metal magazine. :confused: That said neither is a deal-breaker for me and both can be fixed. I'll have the beavertail removed and there are aftermarket baseplates available.

RogerinTPA
11-24-09, 10:50
As a Glock fan I'd tell you that the M&P points much better for me and has a lot going for it outside of the obvious virtues of being ambi and with interchangeable backstraps.

Yes 9mm Glocks are brutally reliable, but it turns out I shoot the M&P much better. In any other caliber I'd definitely go with the M&P.

The main two complaints about the M&P I've heard have been the large beavertail and the plastic mag base pads. I don't see why they couldn't make a metal baseplate if they can make a metal magazine. :confused:

I second that beaver tail removal. They don't have them on the compact, but I'm sure there are folks with huge mitts, that use a high grip, that get cut by the slide when they shoot it.

spamsammich
11-24-09, 11:19
I never had a problem with the beaver tail on an M&P. I got sick of my fat hands getting chewed up by Glocks and 1911s. I'm starting to shoot with gloves so I'll probably complain about it less in the future.

30in1
11-24-09, 11:57
S&W. M&P:

Broken slide stops...

Multiple faiures to fire......

Multiple failures to extract.......

Mutiple failures to lock open on empty mag.....

Rust on weapon and magS after one year of duty use and chasing bad guys....

Witnessed above on my own M&P and others in my cadet class. Majority of Cadet class bought glocks as replacements.


Glocks:

never any failures to fire, extract, feed, lock back, or any rust in five (5) years at prevoious department. Worked when needed and saved my life and other police officers life.

My 2 year old S&W is currently experiencing mysterious failure to lock open problems with nobody knowing why. My glock is still going strong after 8 years with original
parts.

Anyone want to buy a S&W M&P .40 ?

spamsammich
11-24-09, 13:42
I've read of people experiencing rusty slides, especially cc without a sweat shield. This strikes me as a big issue considering the materials and surface treatment.

30in1, by "nobody knowing why" I assume you mean nobody at S&W can remedy the failure to lock back?

RogerinTPA
11-24-09, 13:58
I've read of people experiencing rusty slides, especially cc without a sweat shield. This strikes me as a big issue considering the materials and surface treatment.

30in1, by "nobody knowing why" I assume you mean nobody at S&W can remedy the failure to lock back?

I'm in FL and my M&P9c is my daily CCW. I never had any rust problems, or any other issues, that weren't related to ammo. My 9 has over 4K rounds before I cleaned it today. Although I am guilty of not cleaning my weapons often, I do lube them and wipe my M&Ps & Mags down with a oil soaked cleaning rag or Silicone cloth after every weekend range session. Every gun manufacturer can make a lemon, but I have been fortunate not to have any issues with any of my M&Ps.

Biggy
11-24-09, 15:37
S&W. M&P:

Broken slide stops...

Multiple faiures to fire......

Multiple failures to extract.......

Mutiple failures to lock open on empty mag.....

Rust on weapon and magS after one year of duty use and chasing bad guys....

Witnessed above on my own M&P and others in my cadet class. Majority of Cadet class bought glocks as replacements.


Glocks:

never any failures to fire, extract, feed, lock back, or any rust in five (5) years at prevoious department. Worked when needed and saved my life and other police officers life.

My 2 year old S&W is currently experiencing mysterious failure to lock open problems with nobody knowing why. My glock is still going strong after 8 years with original
parts.

Anyone want to buy a S&W M&P .40 ?

The Glock pistols have also had their share of issues and upgrades through their early years. I know the currently produced S&W M&P pistols have had some upgrades and changes and are better now than when they first came out . I think if they can improve and maintain their quality control they will be close to the Glock 9mm pistols in terms of their reliability and durability. But if i had to take one pistol to go to war with today it would be the current Glock 17 or maybe the next generation G17 comming out at SHOT. I've also always heard that even though it is practically a tie the G17 is actually a little bit more reliable than the G19.

BLACK LION
11-25-09, 14:02
You can carry the M&P with a round in the chamber with the thumb safety on or off. Also, the thumb safety does not lock the slide like on a 1911.

Something I am battling with over these is what if there is no thumb safety?
The only other safety is the ingenius trigger safety:rolleyes: .... I know there are internal safeties and of course my brain and my finger but this strikes me as a concern for carrying it "hot"....
Of course having a thumb safety would curb the issue for the most part but the models that have been available to me did not have the thumb safety.
I really dont want one on there.

I am still weighing in on these and the FNP9...

CaptainDooley
11-25-09, 15:29
You've heard of the new-fangled invention "Glock" right? If one of the most popular pistols in the world operates the same way and there hasn't been a huge uptick in AD/ND's since it was introduced nearly 30 years ago, why would this be an issue?


Something I am battling with over these is what if there is no thumb safety?
The only other safety is the ingenius trigger safety:rolleyes: .... I know there are internal safeties and of course my brain and my finger but this strikes me as a concern for carrying it "hot"....
Of course having a thumb safety would curb the issue for the most part but the models that have been available to me did not have the thumb safety.
I really dont want one on there.

I am still weighing in on these and the FNP9...

BLACK LION
11-25-09, 18:36
Not the same trigger safety my friend. If we were talking XDs then yes, they are pretty much the same. The M&P "trigger safety" is neither akin to the "Glock" nor the "XD".... mechanically speaking.
On the "Glock" and "XD" you must depress the button so it is more snag resistant. On the M&P you only need to pull the bottom portion of the trigger and the safety only engages when you depress the upper half around the curve. . From what I tried, it was easier to activate the trigger on the M&P by snagging it on the lower portion of the trigger. Now this is a pistol with no external safeties but the "trigger safety"...

Now this is not to be misconstrued as anything but an observation from handling and manipulating all three of these platforms...

CaptainDooley
11-25-09, 18:48
Seems like splitting hairs/semantics to me. Both Glocks and M&Ps have safeties that are disengaged only by pulling the trigger. How easy it is to overcome the safety should be irrelevant since with either weapon (really any weapon) safe gun handling would mean being very intentional about what does or does not go into the trigger guard and make contact with the trigger.

kmrtnsn
11-25-09, 20:07
SIG Sauer has managed for a couple of decades to build a safe P Series pistol without a grip safety or a safety on the slide or frame. HK has managed to do so as well with the LEM triggered USP's and P Models without a trigger safety like the Glock and XD. SIG, Glock, and HK have sold tens of thousands of these pistols to departments and agencies who haven't requested a safety lever. You don't need a safety lever to make a safe pistol.

beastfrog
11-25-09, 20:21
...so it is more snag resistant. ...From what I tried, it was easier to activate the trigger on the M&P by snagging it on the lower portion of the trigger.

Are you concerned with reholstering? If so, consider a mag safety version. Eject mag, reholster, then reinsert mag.

ToddG
11-26-09, 09:56
You've heard of the new-fangled invention "Glock" right? If one of the most popular pistols in the world operates the same way and there hasn't been a huge uptick in AD/ND's since it was introduced nearly 30 years ago, why would this be an issue?

That's a huge (and in my experience incorrect) assumption...


SIG Sauer has managed for a couple of decades to build a safe P Series pistol without a grip safety or a safety on the slide or frame. HK has managed to do so as well with the LEM triggered USP's and P Models without a trigger safety like the Glock and XD. SIG, Glock, and HK have sold tens of thousands of these pistols to departments and agencies who haven't requested a safety lever. You don't need a safety lever to make a safe pistol.

In fairness, there is a significant difference between a SIG (TDA or DAK) and HK (TDA or LEM) trigger compared to a Glock or M&P. The SIGs and HKs have substantially longer trigger pulls, at least for the first shot.

Years ago, part of the FBI firearms instructor manual included a study that proved it was trigger pull length rather than weight that really helped reduce the number of ADs. That part of the manual was excised at the same time the Bureau adopted Glocks. Purely by coincidence, I'm sure. :cool:

I am not suggesting that the M&P or Glock triggers are inherently unsafe. But it's not a black-or-white thing, and there's no question that pistols with shorter trigger pulls and no manual safeties are cutting the margin of error.

1911pro
11-26-09, 10:06
I've read of people experiencing rusty slides, especially cc without a sweat shield. This strikes me as a big issue considering the materials and surface treatment.

30in1, by "nobody knowing why" I assume you mean nobody at S&W can remedy the failure to lock back?

My M&P9 had some rusting issues on the slide. Sent it back to Smith and they replaced it. No more rusting issues. Mine has been perfect for about 1500rds. No FTF. No functional issues what so ever. My buddy runs the same gun with no issues. I like it so much I purchased a second.

John_Wayne777
11-26-09, 11:57
I'll pipe in too:

The closest I've ever come to shooting myself in the ass has been with striker fired guns that have no manual safety. I've come perilously close once because of a light lanyard that got stuck in my holster somehow.

While Glocks and M&P's are safe to carry, there are some drawbacks to a weapon with a short-pull 5 pound trigger and no manual safety that those who chose to carry them should be aware of and plan around. I carry an M&P daily and it doesn't trouble me any...but I also realize that the margin of error with my daily carry gun is pretty narrow so I try to handle it with as many precautions built in as possible.

EDIT --

Vid of just such an event happening: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=323_1219180711

ToddG
11-27-09, 09:42
My point was that a safe functional pistol could be had without the inclusion of a trigger safety device, a la Glock or XD, or a frame/slide mounted firing pin safety to be a usable "safe" pistol, that there are hundreds of thousands out there in daily police service lacking such devices.

Absolutely. It's all a matter of how close you want to cut the margins. A trigger pull, for instance, that is perfectly safe in your holster or when you're calm at the range might be too light when it's dark, wet, and cold while you're trying to come fully awake at 2am.

And for those who might not already know, the trigger safety on most striker-fired handguns is part of the drop safe mechanism... it is not intended as a "manual" safety in the same sense as a thumb safety or grip safety. The trigger safety (whether hinged like the M&P or a blade like the Glock) prevents the trigger from moving backwards under inertia in the event the pistol is dropped muzzle-up.


I am constantly befuddled by people's claims to the contrary. In selecting a (purposely misleadingly named) "Safe action" you are making a trade-off. The gun is substantially easier to shoot--especially for beginners. But the safety margin is narrowed.

As a buddy of mine likes to say, Glocks are perfect guns for perfect people.


I've come perilously close once because of a light lanyard that got stuck in my holster somehow.

Which is a major benefit of using a hammer-fired gun, if you holster it properly.

But the flipside, of course, is exactly what JW777 said: if you're going to carry a gun that is a little less inherently anti-stupid, you simply need to be more cognizant about what you're doing. It's just like disassembling a Glock. It certainly can be done safely -- half a bazillion people do it each day -- but it's far less forgiving of mental lapses.

CaptainDooley
11-27-09, 18:41
That's a huge (and in my experience incorrect) assumption...

Sorry if that's incorrect, I haven't ever seen/found reports or statistics to the contrary. Obviously you are in a much better position than I to know the skinny on this, so I defer to your knowledge. If there is some data out there showing a rise in AD/NDs, I'd love to see it.

Littlelebowski
11-27-09, 19:05
I believe some NYPD cops had NDs while disassembling Glocks and of course, blamed the company and sued.