View Full Version : REVIEW : OSOE Tappered War Belt : 56k no no
calicojack
08-13-09, 15:31
Disclaimer:
At this time I do not work for John Willis, OSOE, or Tactical Response Gear. I have no financial gain in their companies and/or products. The products contained here-in have been provided to me for the sole purpose of direct comparison to competitors products, and for product review. All Wording and/or findings are my own, and have not in anyway been solicited by any vested parties.
In my quest for perfecting my personal line up I have gone through several products trying to narrow it down. On recommendation I started with the ATS Warbelt as my first modular belt and first line base. This is the second modular belt that I have put hands on. This is the OSOE Tapered Modular War Belt (http://www.originalsoegear.com/mollebelt.html)
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/osoe%20belt/DSCF0087.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/osoe%20belt/DSCF0090.jpg
As with most of John's products the first thing you notice when you pull out of the shipping container is how rigid of a product it is. Measuring in at an Inch and half at it's thickest point, you can defiantly see the difference over that of the sleeve provided by the competition.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/osoe%20belt/DSCF0092.jpg
One of the things that Makes the belt so thick is the padding. I'm not exactly sure what type of foam that they used, but man is it comfortable. It's covered by a thick layer of mesh. This mesh makes sure that there is 0 movement in the belt. Seriously, this belt is not going any where. even without suspenders.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/osoe%20belt/DSCF0091.jpg
If you look at the sizing chart on blacktone tactical (http://www.blackstonetactical.com/catalog/images/ice/Battle_Belt_Sizing.htm) you'll find the following: "Because of the thickness of the ICE Battle Belt you can not overlap the ends." The OSOE belt is padded, but not so much that you cannot overlap the ends. Truth be told I think I might have told John an inch to big. The ends aren't supposed to overlap if you order the belt correctly. However. If you should over order, it will overlap
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/osoe%20belt/DSCF0095.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/osoe%20belt/DSCF0096.jpg
Like the ATS and Ice Belts, There are slots cut into the bottom of the belt to allow you to mount one sub-load per side. Under each sub-load mounting area you will find hook and loop. this is to prevent slippage of your inner belt. Something i'd like to point out with this picture. Look at the top and bottom layers. Each layer has stitched edging tape sewn onto them, for added durability.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/osoe%20belt/DSCF0089.jpg
One of the features that OSOE puts into this belt, that the others don't is the webbing. you'll notice that It's multicam patterned (acu is done the same way). It's not printed webbing. It's actual codura that has been folded over and stitched 5 times to ensure maximum durability.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/osoe%20belt/DSCF0097.jpg
As the description reads, this is a tapered war belt. It moves from 3 pals channels on the hip pads to 4 channels on the lumbar support.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/osoe%20belt/DSCF0093.jpg
My initial thoughts:
Goodbye ats sleeve. I have found my permanent base for my first line. I have no doubt that this belt will hold up for whatever I can throw at it.
There will be some more shots taken, but I'm going to have to find another assistant as my current one has.... well let's just say i'm having family troubles, don't want to discuss it, but will complete the shots hopefully by the end of the weekend.
what, exactly, do you like more about this than the ATS? Can you post some side-by-side pictures of the two?
calicojack
08-13-09, 15:55
if you look at the ats belt, it's super thin. the outter wall (the molle side) is only a single layer of codura with the webbing stitched upon it. My picture didn't come out to good, but if you look at the stitching points, you can see light coming through the unit. also look at the bottom layer. see how it billows up? that's from a lack of stitching.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/ats%20warbelt/DSCF0058.jpg
second thing is it's loose. I use the same inner belt, now, on both units. the OSOE belt does not shift when twisting side to side. the Ats belt does. I've had my ats belt for just about a year now, and have reconfigured it at least 5 times. notice how wrinkled and loose it has become
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/ats%20warbelt/DSCF0050.jpg
see the waves in it? just due to the construction of the OSOE belt, I don't see how it's going to be possible to produce similar results in it. there is no way for it to "wave" like the ats belt has.
also notice how much stitching the OSOE belt has compared to the ATS belt at the bottom
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/ats%20warbelt/DSCF0055.jpg
Same picture as from above, but i use it to point this out. see how far up the top layer can be pulled?
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/ats%20warbelt/DSCF0058.jpg
compared to the osoe
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/osoe%20belt/DSCF0089.jpg
IrishDevil
08-13-09, 21:42
Since you've decided to compare it directly to the ATS belt, you should mention price. The ATS in Multicam is $39.99, the OSOE is $135.00, that's a huge difference in pricing.
I'm not saying the OSOE isn't a quality item, haven't ever used or seen one. The ATS which I own, is a quality item. You can put a lot more into something when it's 3.5 times the price.
As far as the nylon stretching or "waving", you said you've had it for a year. Reconfigured it 5 times and seemingly put it to use, it's nylon, it's going to stretch.
Honestly, I think you decided to "nit-pick" the ATS to make the OSOE look better. Not knocking the product, but I am knocking the way you compared it to the ATS.
calicojack
08-13-09, 22:03
Since you've decided to compare it directly to the ATS belt, you should mention price. The ATS in Multicam is $39.99, the OSOE is $135.00, that's a huge difference in pricing.
I'm not saying the OSOE isn't a quality item, haven't ever used or seen one. The ATS which I own, is a quality item. You can put a lot more into something when it's 3.5 times the price.
As far as the nylon stretching or "waving", you said you've had it for a year. Reconfigured it 5 times and seemingly put it to use, it's nylon, it's going to stretch.
Honestly, I think you decided to "nit-pick" the ATS to make the OSOE look better. Not knocking the product, but I am knocking the way you compared it to the ATS.
actually i wasn't going to bring my opinions of the ats product into this review, until i was asked directly what i didn't like about it. am I not allowed to have an opinion and issues with a product after i have purchased it and ran it for a year? I guarantee you I will have some sort of opinion on the osoe belt after a year, and when the time comes you can guarantee that I will be more than willing to share it.
eta: with all my reviews I try to be fair and balanced. So far I have written up products by ATS, Tactical Tailor, Esstac, Eagle, DBT, OSOE, HSGI, BATES, and a few others. If I like it, i'm going to tell you i like it. if it has downfalls, expect those to be pointed out as well.
etam: as soon as hobby/paul get me setup to take a detailed look at their product expect that to be written up as well.
etaem: this (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=10&t=286983) thread was started over a week ago, before i had even put eyes on the OSOE product.
militarymoron
08-14-09, 01:43
just a quick comment regarding the 'waviness'. as irishdevil pointed out, any nylon gear put to use is going to stretch, whether it be the webbing, or the webbing stretching the stitching.
if you take a molle war belt that's been worn around the waist for a while with gear attached, then remove the gear and flatten the belt back out, you're going to see 'waves' that you didn't see when it was brand new.
PALS webbing that's slightly loose on a warbelt that's flat is normal. what counts is when the belt is buckled around your waist. those waves will usually flatten out and regain most their tension. as long as they're not loose or floppy when the belt is secured around the waist, it's a non-issue.
as for the OSOE tapered war belt, i can answer that question as i've had mine for about a year and a half. it's most definitely not the most used one out there, but it's the oldest one. it's actually the very first one, as john at OSOE made the tapered war belt based on a discussion we had and list of feedback/specs i subsequently sent him, and mine was the prototype.
as you can see in the photo below, after a year and a half of having pouches attached to it, and stored in the buckled position, there are now waves in the webbing. they don't affect the function of the belt.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/militarymoron/osoe.jpg
calicojack
08-14-09, 07:41
two quick things, and then i'm out the door to work (already running late).
1) I should point out that it's not that i don't like the ats product. if i didn't like it, i would have replaced it by now. it's just that the higher priced belt has more features that i like
2)MM could you should an picture of the inner side of that? there is a point i want to make when i get home.
militarymoron
08-14-09, 10:57
2)MM could you should an picture of the inner side of that? there is a point i want to make when i get home.
there are pics of the inside of the belt on my site:
http://militarymorons.com/equipment/firstline.html#tapered
i noticed a couple of small changes between my belt and the current one - the mesh material is now tan instead of black, and the 'taper' is now a 'step' - going from 3 to 4 rows.
the 'taper' is now a 'step' - going from 3 to 4 rows.
I noticed that too. Any thoughts on that?
Any thoughts in general on the ATS vs. OSOE discussion? (not to put you on the spot or anything ;) )
Sorry to ask what is probably an obvious question but, do you have to buy a belt to run thru that OSOE tappered belt? I'd assume so as there doesn't appear to be any sort of buckle or binding implement on it.
Also, is it better to order it short? The reason I'm asking is I've dropped about 2 pants sizes with this current routine I'm on, and will probably drop a few more. So, if I order it shorter, is it going to affect the comfort in the front? (Comfort isn't the overriding thing here, but as I understand it, ordering it at one size, then losing the chub might render it ineffective.
Thanks in advance.
(Guess my gun belt might need some upgrading hehe :D )
Zhurdan, both the OSOE and the ATS require a belt (2" seems to be the norm) run inside of it. Many people are using the Cobra buckles so that they can be easily put on/taken off, but something like an Eagle Duty Belt will work as well. Instructor-type belts leave you with a tail that must be dealt with and aren't as easy-on/off.
Sizing I can't help you on. I'm just researching the hell out of these things myself. The ATS and the OSOE are both at the top of my list though, which is why I'm so interested in this thread.
calicojack
08-14-09, 12:32
I have an ats belt and an osoe belt. when i ordered the OSOE belt I was specifically asked what size pants I wore. (36) however I noted that in a padded belt i probably needed something along a 39-41" belt. I ended up being sent a 42" (edge tape to edge tape). had it been around 40 it would have been the right size. however, i'd rather have to overlap an inch than it be to short
in the ats belt i have a medium and it ends right on top of my pelvic bone.
eta: still waiting on paul and hobby from ice to answer me back so i can give you guys a third option
militarymoron
08-14-09, 12:37
I noticed that too. Any thoughts on that?
Any thoughts in general on the ATS vs. OSOE discussion? (not to put you on the spot or anything ;) )
looking at the pics closer, i see that the step version has less columns of PALS than the original tapered belt. 9 rows as opposed to 12. other than that, there doesn't seem to be any functional difference. i like the look of the taper vs. the step, personally. the idea behind the 3 rows on the front and side and 4 rows in the rear was to provide a bit more stablity in the side/rear and rear for items like canteen pouches and a buttpack. keeping 3 rows in the front and sides allows mobility when bending etc.
i don't have the ATS war belt, so i don't have any experience to form an opinion on it. so, you're not putting me on the spot :)
edited to add: i agree - sleeves or padded belts are definitely more convenient to use with cobra or side-release buckles in front, vs. rigger type belts.
calicojack
08-14-09, 12:59
there are pics of the inside of the belt on my site:
http://militarymorons.com/equipment/firstline.html#tapered
i noticed a couple of small changes between my belt and the current one - the mesh material is now tan instead of black, and the 'taper' is now a 'step' - going from 3 to 4 rows.
those are your stock pictures, not your year old pictures. Yes there have been a significant amount of changes since the generation that you reviewed. Here's the reason I was asking for a shot of yours after a years use:
about the billowing. the ats belt does have a thin layer of padding to it. from the feel of mine (and i'd like one of their reps to chime in here) it is open cell foam. which has a tendancy to bunch and shift. A simple design change to where they fill it, then edge it with edge tape, run a few vertical stitches, and you've re-enforced that padding, thus preventing the shift. It's kinda like a pillow or feather bed. at some point your going to end up with it bunching. Now. I am not a high speed operator (i've stated that enough, and should you choose to attack me on it, please do so via pm). However I have run this belt for about a year. These are observations that i have come up with.
okay. here's the bunching of the padding i was talking about. notice how it's not flat in any one area? how the foam has developed clumps?
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/ats%20warbelt/DSCF0112.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/ats%20warbelt/DSCF0116.jpg
compared to the osoe version
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff298/arolfsen/reviews/ats%20warbelt/DSCF0117.jpg
notice how the stitching/edging at the top AND bottom of the osoe pulls it tight? also notice the mutiple vertical stripes of stitching compared to ATS two wide spaced horizontal rows?
militarymoron
08-14-09, 15:43
those are your stock pictures, not your year old pictures.
i'll take a look this evening when i get home from work.
militarymoron
08-14-09, 23:09
i took a look at the inside of the OSOE belt. other than vertical creases in the foam/drilex that you get from curving something that was manufactured flat, nothing worth taking a photo of.
calicojack
08-14-09, 23:14
i took a look at the inside of the OSOE belt. other than vertical creases in the foam/drilex that you get from curving something that was manufactured flat, nothing worth taking a photo of.
so no bunching like the above posted ats pictures? would you mind humoring me? or do i / we have to wait for a year for mine to wear in?
militarymoron
08-14-09, 23:23
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/militarymoron/osoe2.jpg
Are these available anywhere besides OSOE direct. I remember hearing that they are no longer taking direct orders. I dont see it at TRG at all.
CJ, is that the actual padding that is billowing up, or just the Cordura itself? I've been running mine for over a year now with no issues at all with the padding bunching/billowing.
calicojack
08-15-09, 06:58
there are other dealers, i think. check john's website for other links. or you can email him direct. pm me for his email
hawkeye: you can actually feel the padding bunched up
Zhurdan, both the OSOE and the ATS require a belt (2" seems to be the norm) run inside of it. Many people are using the Cobra buckles so that they can be easily put on/taken off, but something like an Eagle Duty Belt will work as well. Instructor-type belts leave you with a tail that must be dealt with and aren't as easy-on/off.
Sorry for being dense -- how exactly do you wear these war belts? If the inner belt runs inside the war belt, do you thread anything through the belt loops on your pants? Is there anything securing the war belt to your pants? I see the suspenders help distribute the weight, but what prevents the belt from moving up on your body (e.g. when you draw a holstered pistol)? Thanks.
calicojack
08-16-09, 02:49
Sorry for being dense -- how exactly do you wear these war belts? If the inner belt runs inside the war belt, do you thread anything through the belt loops on your pants? Is there anything securing the war belt to your pants? I see the suspenders help distribute the weight, but what prevents the belt from moving up on your body (e.g. when you draw a holstered pistol)? Thanks.
no, there is nothing that holds them to your pants. i've never expirenced any movement vertically when drawing from any of the three subload holsters i have had on mine. there is a slight shift upward when getting up from the prone with the ats, but due to the taper of the osoe that really isn't an issue.
Sorry for being dense -- how exactly do you wear these war belts? If the inner belt runs inside the war belt, do you thread anything through the belt loops on your pants? Is there anything securing the war belt to your pants? I see the suspenders help distribute the weight, but what prevents the belt from moving up on your body (e.g. when you draw a holstered pistol)? Thanks.
Most people run these with at least a drop-leg holster, so it's secured to the body from being pulled up that way. Otherwise they basically rely on friction and a tight fit to stay on the body and/or in place.
I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a version that had some keepers on the inside though. What would be really nice, in fact, would be to have a few molle straps with the snaps at the top so that you could secure the padded belt to the pants belt or secure the hole system to the outside (or inside) of a molle rifle case.
Most people run these with at least a drop-leg holster, so it's secured to the body from being pulled up that way. Otherwise they basically rely on friction and a tight fit to stay on the body and/or in place.
I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a version that had some keepers on the inside though. What would be really nice, in fact, would be to have a few molle straps with the snaps at the top so that you could secure the padded belt to the pants belt or secure the hole system to the outside (or inside) of a molle rifle case.
Thanks for the feedback guys. Rob- that actually sounds like a pretty good idea!
Not sure this type of system is for me, but it does sound like a nice setup. I ran my Sneaky Bag again in my last carbine class.
Rob, I posted this over on LF, but what I've been using is a couple of small carabiners to attach to my belt loops and then to the MOLLE on the belt. I'm a skinny dude with no curves at all and this keeps the belt from riding up on me.
calicojack
08-17-09, 21:29
Rob, I posted this over on LF, but what I've been using is a couple of small carabiners to attach to my belt loops and then to the MOLLE on the belt. I'm a skinny dude with no curves at all and this keeps the belt from riding up on me.
that's an interesting concept. you don't happen to have any pictures of that do u?
nobody knows
01-15-12, 05:29
Sorry for the necro post but I figured this would be a good place to start as I'm considering purchasing this belt. As its been about three years, and as It's a post by a respected member that puts gear to the test as well as having first hand experience with lots of different gear, I figured It's a good place to start. Anyway I'm looking for any updates. Do you still have it? Is it standing up to the test of time? I own a chest rig frome o.s.o.e gear and It's of exceptional quality I'm not to worried about It's durability, but rather It's ability to hold It's own against the newer belts. With newer features, such as the inner velcro belt of the usgg infidel and the hdpe frame sheet of the HSGI war belt ect. Is it still relevant in today's market? Any and all info from those with first hand knowledge would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
calicojack
01-20-12, 14:27
I still have it. it goes with me on every range trip and to every class I attend. It's held up very well. John is currently taking orders on these.
eta: because it's held up so well, been as comfortable as it has and has never given me a moment's pause i have not had to try other belts.
nobody knows
01-20-12, 18:29
Wen you say he is currently taking orders on these, I assume that's not always the case?? Or does he just do them in baches? Thanks
calicojack
01-20-12, 21:30
Wen you say he is currently taking orders on these, I assume that's not always the case?? Or does he just do them in baches? Thanks
he had a back log. he does them in batches. get in touch with him via FB or john@originalsoegear.com
nobody knows
01-20-12, 23:05
Thanks I just put in an order so now the wait begins.
TacMedic556
02-24-12, 18:50
Way to ressurect the thread.
I am debating between the HSGI Sure Grip padded belt and the OSOE Tapered belt.
Any information that can move me either way is welcomed.
Any users of the HSGI on here have an opinion? I am skeptical of the neoprene type material on the inside holding up to the test of time, sweat and abrasion. Thanks.
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