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NCPatrolAR
08-13-09, 17:54
I'm in the market for a single stack 9mm and have narrowed my choices primarly down to the Sig 239 and the SA EMP. Does anyone have a fair amount of expereince with either fo these?

signsrup
08-13-09, 19:30
There's another current 239 thread running that you may find helpfull.

Eric

kmrtnsn
08-14-09, 02:04
Buy the SIG. I had a DA/SA P239 a few years back in .357SIG (Not my choice of calibers, it was what was authorized). It was the last SIG that I have purchased. I must say that it had the best trigger of any DA/SA SIG that I have ever shot. Although I am not the biggest fan of SIG anymore I will say that you will be buying a professional grade concealable pistol. I found that I had to put Hogues on it to make it comfortable to shoot but it was a better shooter than the P229 DA/SA I was carrying as a primary at the time. I think the P239 would be an awesome pistol if SIG or someone made a compact double stack frame for it.

Vash1023
08-14-09, 03:32
Springfield armory all the way!!!

scottryan
08-14-09, 03:32
Go with the SIG.

The EMP is not a 1911, but a scaled down one. It shares very little parts with one and is a completely separate pistol.

The Sig will be much easier to get parts for and easier to work on.

The P239 is a proven and time tested pistol that will be around for a long time. The EMP???

I also don't like how the EMP only comes in two tone finish. I also hate Springfield's huge ass writing and logo on their pistols.

If you want something like the EMP, I would get a 9mm Colt officers or a Colt Government .380.

kmrtnsn
08-14-09, 03:46
"Springfield armory all the way!!!"

That was useful. You back that up with what? unbridled enthusiasm? The number of officers, agents, etc. that carry it professionally? Its proven track record? The fact they build the XD? What?

ToddG
08-14-09, 05:06
While far from an empirical study, every single person I know personally who has owned an EMP has eventually regretted the purchase. I'm sure there is someone out there in the interweb who claims he's fired five bazillion rounds through his without a single stoppage, but I put "reliable EMP" up there with "unicorn" on the list of things I expect never to see in my lifetime.

Littlelebowski
08-14-09, 07:42
I had a reliable EMP until I had to send it back to the factory for a machining error. Great little pistol, very fun to shoot and accurate. Bought it for my wife. Don't think I'd compare to a Sig though.

I'll post when I get it back. The machining error never should have made it through QC.

John_Wayne777
08-14-09, 10:53
I'm in the market for a single stack 9mm and have narrowed my choices primarly down to the Sig 239 and the SA EMP. Does anyone have a fair amount of expereince with either fo these?

To paraphrase LAV:

1. 1911's in 9mm should be considered nothing more than toys
2. 1911's in compact configuration are problematic and unreliable

Of the two choices you mentioned, I'd prefer the P239 by a mile. My P239 was bought before the switch at Sig. It's a good, reliable handgun, although it likes a bit more lube than many of the plastic options on the market. While it's a good handgun...I don't like it any more than the S&W 3913. The one real advantage the P239 has over the 3913 is the availability of CT grips.

steeltoe
08-14-09, 13:51
I chose the EMP after a similar decision to yours. Know that the rumors are true, chances are an EMP will need to be tuned by Springfield. Mine had some issues in the first 200 rds. I called Springfield, they took it and had it back to me in a week. Paid postage as well, so no charge whatsoever. Their smith did the kind of work I'd expect on a comp pistol, matched feed ramp to frame etc. It feeds any ammo I run through it and is ridiculously accurate. Anyone who has shot an EMP will agree it is a pleasure to shoot.

Another thing I looked at in the decision is the Sig 239 does not share the profile of other Sigs. Concealment holsters are specific to it alone. With the EMP any of the micro 1911 holsters will work. The other thing I looked at is company support. Springfield is great to deal with and has a reputation for that. Also I'm a lefty so the EMP is good to go out of the box. I've shot Sigs and don't find them lefty friendly at all. Not a huge issue but an issue nonetheless. Last, I like the aluminum, stainless combo on the EMP. For a carry gun in FL that is less worry about rust.

NCPatrolAR
08-14-09, 17:39
Hmmm, maybe I'll just dig up a Smith 3913 or 3953

Vash1023
08-14-09, 18:44
SA mc operator!!!

NCPatrolAR
08-14-09, 19:12
SA mc operator!!!


Uh no. I'm not looking for another government model 1911.

Littlelebowski
08-14-09, 19:47
I think it may not be a high round count training class gun but it's certainly wicked accurate and carries well. It's pretty damned fun to shoot.

DacoRoman
08-15-09, 23:03
Correct me if I'm wrong but another issue with the EMP is that it is not +P rated

Also I think for that price SA ought to do their reliability packages or whatever before the guns are shipped out! Do they think some people buy the guns just to stare at them or use them as stylish paper weights :rolleyes:?

NCPatrolAR
08-16-09, 01:46
Do they think some people buy the guns just to stare at them or use them as stylish paper weights :rolleyes:?

Sadly, they would be correct in that line of thinking

FVC3
08-17-09, 12:11
I'm in the market for a single stack 9mm and have narrowed my choices primarly down to the Sig 239 and the SA EMP. Does anyone have a fair amount of expereince with either fo these?


After going to work for an agency that fielded 9 mm Sigs, I bought a 239. It was OK - if you like widgets on your gun - but I traded it for a G19 and never looked back. I wouldn't take a chance on the EMP from what I hear others say. I've not seen anyone put any large number of rounds through an EMP, though.

exitinyourhead
08-17-09, 12:43
sweet! i've owned both these platforms...

I sold the sig and kept the emp. I do not carry the emp though... I'm the big bafoon who likes staring at it. :)

I wouldn't carry either of the two or take courses with either but I've shot both a bit and logged it in my shooters journal.

I put 630 rounds through the sig with 2 failures to feed (both were ga arms factory reloaded ammuntion)

I've put 450 rounds through the EMP with 0 failures to feed or eject. (Similar ammo brands to the stuff used in the Sig, some factory new some factory reloads)

Both guns were very comfortable to shoot

Both guns were easy to carry (single stacks are nice on the hip, inside the pants)

I like the trigger on the EMP vs the Sig but the EMP is only single action where as the sig was d/a and s/a (this could be a deciding factor) The EMP trigger was better even compared to the sig cocked and locked.

Accuracy is better with the EMP but not by a significant ammount over the sig.

I would have a hard time recommending the Springfield to you because of all the bad comments out there, I have had really good luck with mine but that is a sample of one and not something I would lend a ton of credence to. I am not a fan of springfield 1911's either but this little EMP just always makes me smile to pull out and shoot.

When I carry compact, I carry a G26 and I would recommend it without hesitation over either of the other two. The sig and the emp were both fun to shoot though and would probably be more comfortable on the hip if you haven't carried before.

DacoRoman
08-17-09, 13:02
Sadly, they would be correct in that line of thinking

Yeah I understand what you mean. And I suppose it is more cost effective to turn out a slew of slightly, to not so slightly, rough guns, then to do the reliability package on all of them, when only a relatively small segment of buyers take the effort to send the gun back to be made right, I'm guessing.

Sorry for the tangent, but I think this is an amusing anecdote based on my thought above. I was listening to Tom Gresham's Gun Talk on the radio yesterday. This man calls and asks what he should do about his Taurus 24/7 that can only feed ball ammo reliably. So Tom's advice was, and I'm paraphrasing: "Well, you know, I've taken a lot of self defense courses, with the likes of Clint Smith, etc., and you know what they all carry in their guns? Ball ammo. So the question you have to ask yourself is "does it really matter that you can't shoot JHP's". I mean you are already shooting a big heavy bullet". At which point the caller says "yeah that's what my buddy said, who cares, you're shooting a .45". Tom then told him that he may consider taking the gun to a gunsmith to get it too feed JHP's, but the gun was designed for ball ammo, and if it was him, he'd just use ball ammo in the gun. At no point did he even suggest sending the gun back to Taurus.

Anyway, this is not meant to criticize Tom Gresham or Gun Talk, but I use the anecdote to emphasize that lots of people probably just settle with what they've got, and if the gun doesn't feed well, oh well.

NCPatrolAR
08-17-09, 14:02
sweet! i've owned both these platforms...

I sold the sig and kept the emp. I do not carry the emp though... I'm the big bafoon who likes staring at it. :)

I wouldn't carry either of the two or take courses with either but I've shot both a bit and logged it in my shooters journal.

I put 630 rounds through the sig with 2 failures to feed (both were ga arms factory reloaded ammuntion)

I've put 450 rounds through the EMP with 0 failures to feed or eject. (Similar ammo brands to the stuff used in the Sig, some factory new some factory reloads)

Both guns were very comfortable to shoot

Both guns were easy to carry (single stacks are nice on the hip, inside the pants)

I like the trigger on the EMP vs the Sig but the EMP is only single action where as the sig was d/a and s/a (this could be a deciding factor) The EMP trigger was better even compared to the sig cocked and locked.

Accuracy is better with the EMP but not by a significant ammount over the sig.

I would have a hard time recommending the Springfield to you because of all the bad comments out there, I have had really good luck with mine but that is a sample of one and not something I would lend a ton of credence to. I am not a fan of springfield 1911's either but this little EMP just always makes me smile to pull out and shoot.

When I carry compact, I carry a G26 and I would recommend it without hesitation over either of the other two. The sig and the emp were both fun to shoot though and would probably be more comfortable on the hip if you haven't carried before.

I carry a full size M&P daily and use a 26 at work as a BUG. I'm looking for a single stack gun so that I have something that's thinner and a bit lighter

exitinyourhead
08-17-09, 14:08
I carry a full size M&P daily and use a 26 at work as a BUG. I'm looking for a single stack gun so that I have something that's thinner and a bit lighter

totally understand I just wanted to give advice/experience but put it into context.

Once thing I left off about the EMP was the take down. You need a tool to do it (it can be done without it but it's hard) and that might have some bearing as well. It doesn't take down like a standard 1911. The Sig was significantly easier to take apart and put back together again.

I also have a full size m&p (9mm) and carry it when carrying big.

cfrazier
08-17-09, 14:16
Have you looked at the Sig P6/225? JGSales has them for $350.

NCPatrolAR
08-17-09, 15:34
Have you looked at the Sig P6/225? JGSales has them for $350.

Tried a few locally and the triggers were horrible. Plus, aren't parts difficult to locate for it?

John_Wayne777
08-17-09, 15:47
Tried a few locally and the triggers were horrible. Plus, aren't parts difficult to locate for it?

It's a dead platform. I don't know what kind of support Sig still has for it.

cfrazier
08-17-09, 16:29
Triggers are a little heavy. But you still can get parts from Top Gun Supply, they carry all oparts for Sig. Most parts are common to the P228.

apache64
08-21-09, 22:43
I got to shoot the Para Carry 9, but only one box of ammo. It was great, no problems. However, it's a Para and around my circle, it is feast or famine with them. I love the idea of a small, thin 9mm but I wanted more input from Para owners. Still waiting.

It is relatively close in size to the EMP. Again great concept, not enough in person experience.

Several coworkers have the P239 in 9, .40, and .357 Sig. All have great reviews of them. Only one complaint was grip screws were destroyed by Mongo who used a non-gun screwdriver to replace grips.

MarshallDodge
08-21-09, 23:39
My wife has the EMP and loves it. After about 200 rounds we had issues with it feeding. We called Springfield and they walked us through some checks and when they didn't pass they sent out a call tag. We had it back in 10 days. Since then the guns reliability has really improved and she has worked on her grip, it seems to be sensitive to limp wristing with lighter loads.

I am not sure about the +P loads being an issue because it likes ammo on the hotter side. At the moment she is carrying 124 grain Hydra Shoks which run 100%.

I think the gun is overpriced for what it is but the gun is very accurate and it comes with wood grips and night sites. I wish they would come out with a plain jane version for $500 because all the ladies she lets shoot it fall in love until they see the price tag.

My recommendation would be a Kahr CW9 or P9. I carry an old E9, it has been a really good gun and I have not been easy on it.

signal4l
08-22-09, 14:18
The 239 is a great little gun. Its a bit heavy for its size. I would recommend the SRT trigger kit. Get a Raven Concealment holster and you are good to go.

87GN
08-22-09, 14:22
I've had 2 P6s, they are pretty thick for what they are.


To paraphrase LAV:

1. 1911's in 9mm should be considered nothing more than toys


That's it, I'm bringing my 9mm 1911 to the next LAV class I go to.

He didn't comment on the 10mm one I had last class. It didn't choke though.

Dave James
08-22-09, 17:22
Don't post often but have carreid for over 40+ years, between the two listed I would opt for the 239, have owned 3 version's the DAO, DAK, and the DA/SA, I prefer the DAO, only due to being an OLD revolver type guy, 9mm is smooth , the 40 nad 357 are a little robust in recoil but they carry so nice, last one I had , Houge grips worked well on and were not to bulky.

Have no time on trigger with the EMP, but my troops whom have purchased them , have had problems from the get go.

If you want a 9mmin the 1911 platform go with a Commander style 4" you'll be money ahead of the game and happier

CPR
08-26-09, 16:04
Resurrecting this from the dead, but Chris, have you given any thought to the Walther PPS? Trigger is Glock/M&P-ish and they're pretty reliable guns.