View Full Version : Vehicle-mounted mag pouches and vehicle bailout bags...
30 cal slut
08-18-09, 08:27
I just got back from a seven-day PSD class (AAR with pics forthcoming).
One of the things we did in this class to prep the convoy vehicles was to attach tool pouches with bungee cords to the front and rear passenger seats to store loaded mags. This is fairly field expedient ... just go to Home Depot Tactical :D(again, tool pouch affixed by bungee cord or zip-ties).
Another thing we did was to position "bailout" bags in the cars. Each of these bags contained additional loaded primary weapon magazines, various light sticks (e.g., cyalume), a bottle of water or two, an MRE, and smoke grenades. If we took a contact, and the vehicle went down, and we had to bail out, cover, and peel, we'd take these bags with us.
My questions, after some searching online this morning:
Do they make ammo pouches for car seats (w/ molle, for example)?
Guys who have done PSD work ... what is your favorite vehicle bailout bag? I noticed a bunch that weren't put together very well (they had a tendency to rip in all the wrong places under stressful situations).
Thanks!
-slut
Do they make ammo pouches for car seats (w/ molle, for example)?
We were issued MOLLE seat covers for HMMWVs that we could attach mag/frag/anything with straps pouches to. I don't remember who the manufacturer was but I found a link to a smilar product.
http://www.awsin.com/proddetail.asp?prod=51935
I would imagine that if we could stretch it over a HMMWV seat, it would fit over most civilian vehicle seats.
Smittybuilt makes MOLLE seat covers for Jeeps, they're actually higher quality than I expected from Smittybuilt.
They could probably be adapted to other vehicles, there's not a whole lot of fitting going on with them.
30 cal slut
08-18-09, 10:31
thank you, gentlemen!
Skintop911
08-18-09, 11:59
A bail-out bag and a seat cover are two different things.
Many seat covers have a handle on them so that you can take them with you, but pulling a loaded cover off a seat, and then carrying it, requires time and one of your hands. Some are better than others.
An actual bag can be secured to a seat but still QD, then thrown over a shoulder freeing your hands.
Each has its place and utility, but don't confuse them.
Depending on what you need it for, and how much you need it to carry, you might just stick with a Sneaky, EGL, or Eagle active-shooter type bag and QD hang/lash it to your seat.
I've used DBT's E&E bag in the past. It's pretty good, but when it's fully loaded it tends to roll away from your body because the mags are on the outside. Maxpedition's stuff is pretty popular, and in the past (not so much now) a lot of guys used Camelbaks. Depending on circumstances and environment, 3 day packs are also fairly common.
30 cal slut
08-19-09, 07:44
A bail-out bag and a seat cover are two different things.
Yes, I understand that. If you are shooting from the vehicle, you want to reload your primary from mags that are stored in the vehicle, not from your plate carrier.
I've used DBT's E&E bag in the past. It's pretty good, but when it's fully loaded it tends to roll away from your body because the mags are on the outside. Maxpedition's stuff is pretty popular, and in the past (not so much now) a lot of guys used Camelbaks. Depending on circumstances and environment, 3 day packs are also fairly common.
The original designer of the DBT bag made a much improved version.
http://stores.greygrouptraining.com/-strse-3108/E%26R-Bag/Detail.bok
30 cal slut
08-19-09, 15:19
The original designer of the DBT bag made a much improved version.
http://stores.greygrouptraining.com/-strse-3108/E%26R-Bag/Detail.bok
oh my, that is nice. thanks zushwa!
http://www.tacticalassaultgearstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=882
This is a neat set up. There is a spot for two AR mags, pistol mag & maps.
http://emob834.photobucket.com/albums/zz267/edmateo50/photo-2.jpg
Iraq Ninja
08-20-09, 07:22
From my experience, you run out of medical supplies before running out of ammo. So, med kit and bullets go hand in hand...
I take a layered approach to mags in vehicles.- doors, seats, bags, body (your vest)
First of all, we stuff the standard door pockets with mags and medical bandages. These tend to get used first, since they are easy to reach while shooting out, or when you open a vehicle to get ammo. This is also where the smokes go.
Chest rigs hanging off the rear of the seats work well. We even used the old chinese chest rigs, or regular M4 bandoleers. The custom made seat covers are ok, but are not multifunctional. I want something I can take out and throw over my shoulder.
If it is the client vehicle, you don't want stuff hanging off the back of your seats.
We use more med kit in the back seat areas, since that is where you perform most of your life support for the wounded.
People naturally tend to stuff their bags full of ammo, but whatever you put in it, you need to be able to move and fight quickly with it on your body. You don't want the bag to be so heavy that it slows you down.
As for bags, my favorite is the SO tech bag. It sits under my legs, at the base of my seat. Easy to grab and run.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/Iraqninja/theboyzones004.jpg
People naturally tend to stuff their bags full of ammo, but whatever you put in it, you need to be able to move and fight quickly with it on your body. You don't want the bag to be so heavy that it slows you down.
I'm glad to see you post this. I see a lot of posts from guys in my same "lane" with rigs holding 6, 8, 18(!) magazines.
On a lbs/volume basis med gear tends to weigh less than ammo, so if you stock up on that stuff first you're less likely to try to fill every empty nook and cranny with ammo.
In fact, I'm working on putting together a chest rig right now where I'm sacrificing a magazine for med gear, and gladly so.
Iraq Ninja
08-20-09, 08:27
Hi Rob,
That sounds like a good idea. I currently use only 5 mags on my working kit, while some of my mates still have 12 for some crazy idea. My primary mag is a 20 rnd Pmag. I really like the 20 rounders, especially inside a vehicle.
Oh, and for PSD ops outside of CONUS, don't forget to have lots of cash in your go bag, along with a smoke, IR strobe, VS17, or some form of signaling kit. The cash is good for securing another ride if needed.
My PVS 14 is in my go bag as well. Rarely used, but great when you really need it.
Hell, the cash ain't a bad idea INSIDE CONUS! Post hurricanes cash (and barter) was king.
When I spent a lot of time in the national forest outside of Lake City I always kept a smoke grenade in my truck. I figured if we were out there alone and got stock/broke down/whatever if we popped the smoke one of the fire watchers would see it and send someone to put out the "fire" and find us instead. :D
30 cal slut
08-20-09, 10:11
Iraq Ninja,
Your replies greatly appreciated. Thanks!
re: medical stuff. Well, for the purposes of the training at least, we had a shared trauma bag in the trunk (I'll post pics later).
p.s. you look very fashionable with that murse. :D
p.p.s the vehicle to your left ... right rear passenger window has a portal. is that for shooting?
Iraq Ninja
08-20-09, 10:33
Hi,
I just got home on leave and enjoying having a fast internet.
Yes, that is a gun port on a B6 armored land cruiser. The best gun ports are the football shaped ports. They allow you more sideways movement with your rifle, unlike the round versions. I think gun port design has really taken off over the past five years, since people have actually had to use them.
Shooting out of a gun port is fun! main lesson learned is if you have a malfunction or need to reload, keep the rifle in the gun port pointing outside. Makes things a lot easier when you are bouncing down a road.
What a lot of PSD folks don't realize, is that an armored vehicle with gun ports makes a great bunker to fight from. Many people use the same old drills that were taught years ago with soft skin vehicles- if you vehicle goes down, the old way was to get out and use it for cover while returning fire. Then, either cross deck into another vehicle or bound away to cover.
The problem is that ambushes often happen in the 360, and you give away a lot of cover by leaving an armored vehicle. I would rather stay inside and return fire unless things are really bad, or if RPGs start flying. Also, if faced by a PKM with AP ammo, it will go through one side, but not both. That is why if you have to get out, you need to always close the door.
You can also lower a disabled vehicle by shooting the rims to let the air out. Shooting the tires is too slow.
You can also "Alamo" your armored vehicles. For instance, placing three of them in a triangle formation, with one vehicle as one side of the triangle. This is a good way to door tire changes, with the bad tire on the inside of the formation.
30 cal slut
08-20-09, 10:38
interesting!
I very much agree about the weight and bulk of a Go Bag. If you can't fight with it then it isn't worth carrying. The interference with your normal kit should be kept to a minimum as well. Go Bags have gained this cult following and like all things, they get blown out of proportion.
I was also going to suggest the 5.56 bandoleers. We stuff them with mags, smoke, and med. Every one is the same so no matter which one you grab you know what you're getting. These are supplementary to our own bags. Those fuckers are laying around like Johnny Appleseed was passing through.
I'm in complete agreement with what Iraq Ninja is loading out. Of course his list is for OCUNUS, semi permissive or non permissive environments but most of the items, and the simplicity, make total sense. I'll get some pic's of my "go bag" up here shortly.
One anecdotal note, a buddy of mine was in a fight on a rooftop where they were "alamo'd up" and they had their air support lower some "go bags" to them. Only thing inside was mags and frags. Different mission, different needs. :)
No high speed PSD experience here, but thought some of you might like this...
I had this made for my GMC 2500 work truck. I needed something to help organize all my gear as I spent most of my time on route. It's a 1.5' x 4.5' panel covered in Molle/Pals . A handle strap is placed in the middle for easy removal and carry. It can be secured with straps, ladders and field expedient buckles. A few slit's were put in so it could be used with most headrest if needed. As a bonus I had zippers put on the underside for additional storage.
I used this for about a year and loved it. It was good to run all day and easy to remove to resupply and put back in. I usually had it set up to run utility / IFAK / admin / hydrations type gear, but ran mag and smoke pouches a few times. Worked like a charm. It could easily be thrown over the shoulder and moved to cover, but not ideal for a long haul.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x201/BigBennyBoy/bens_n73-19002.jpg
The APO postal system here won't let us send anything that resembles issued gear. I have since taken it back home so I don't loose it. If asked, I would be more then happy to send more pic's in 23 days, 22 hours and 33 minutes. Or you can PM me and I can send you the ppsx slides to your email.
K.L. Davis
08-25-09, 11:07
Smittybilt gear (http://www.smittybilt.com/product/index/53.htm)
I came across those about 3 months ago, and have been going crazy trying to relocate that link. Thanks, KL!
Smittybilt gear (http://www.smittybilt.com/product/index/53.htm)
Can you easily/quickly remove that if you needed to bail?
It would be neat if it had shoulder straps sown on the inside so that you could throw it on your bag if you bailed and took it with you, if you couldn't access your ruck. I'd think of it more as suited for E&E or a prolonged fight if you can't get to your assault pack or ruck etc..
That thing looks really good for organization and ease of access, but doesn't look like it's very portable.
03humpalot
08-30-09, 05:10
That mayflower rig is pretty sweet. Agreed on usually needing med gear more than extra ammo.
We normally just attach extra chest rigs with M4 mags/smoke/and a pressure dressing/TQ to the back of seats. Extra belt fed ammo goes in seat pockets as well as go bags.
The problem i have always ran into was ballancing how much gear im gonna need based on the contact...if my vehicle is disabled can i evac to another vehicle?
Are all the vehicles down and its time to strongpoint a local structure?
Have the swine flu infested durka zombies completelly over ran the AO and its time to E&E to a friendlier country etc?.
Basically i cant get away from unassing the truck without a big ass load of kit. Im grabbing a Radio/Belt Fed weapon and ammo,possibly a med bag,maybe the breaching kit if needed etc.
Simple answer is to run extra chest rigs with ammo on the seats and grab them and go, reality(at least mine) is im gonna be grabbing a bunch of shit.
At the very least my personal go bag with extra ammo/water/and mission essential copenhagen snuff is going with me.
That mayflower rig is pretty sweet. Agreed on usually needing med gear more than extra ammo.
We normally just attach extra chest rigs with M4 mags/smoke/and a pressure dressing/TQ to the back of seats. Extra belt fed ammo goes in seat pockets as well as go bags.
The problem i have always ran into was ballancing how much gear im gonna need based on the contact...if my vehicle is disabled can i evac to another vehicle?
Are all the vehicles down and its time to strongpoint a local structure?
Have the swine flu infested durka zombies completelly over ran the AO and its time to E&E to a friendlier country etc?.
Basically i cant get away from unassing the truck without a big ass load of kit. Im grabbing a Radio/Belt Fed weapon and ammo,possibly a med bag,maybe the breaching kit if needed etc.
Simple answer is to run extra chest rigs with ammo on the seats and grab them and go, reality(at least mine) is im gonna be grabbing a bunch of shit.
At the very least my personal go bag with extra ammo/water/and mission essential copenhagen snuff is going with me.
Pretty much what we do.
We have cheap BlackHawk chest rigs looped over the seats with extra mags/smokes/med gear. If shit goes down, you can sling one like a bandoleer.
The only time I could see where they would be a problem is in a roll-over.
The only time I could see where they would be a problem is in a roll-over.
That brings up a whole 'nother topic that I've been thinking on in my own personal vehicle. I think I need to start a separate thread on this, but I keep thinking of all of us that have SUVs and all the crap rolling around in them unsecured, and what happens to all of that crap in a violent accident or rollover.
I can just imagine getting in a head-on and the seatbelt and airbag doing their job just to have my mechanic's tool bag loaded with AR tools come flying out of the cargo area and whacking me in the back of the head.
<snip>That is why if you have to get out, you need to always close the door.
That reminds me of a class years back where part of the drill was for the pair of vehicle occupants to both bail out of the vehicle through the passenger door to return fire.
With one of the pairs of shooters, the first guy jumped out and closed the door on the second shooter still in the vehicle. :p
30 cal slut
08-30-09, 10:34
With one of the pairs of shooters, the first guy jumped out and closed the door on the second shooter still in the vehicle. :p
*ouch*
03humpalot
08-30-09, 11:13
That brings up a whole 'nother topic that I've been thinking on in my own personal vehicle. I think I need to start a separate thread on this, but I keep thinking of all of us that have SUVs and all the crap rolling around in them unsecured, and what happens to all of that crap in a violent accident or rollover.
I can just imagine getting in a head-on and the seatbelt and airbag doing their job just to have my mechanic's tool bag loaded with AR tools come flying out of the cargo area and whacking me in the back of the head.
Rob,
that is a valid concern and we have lost people due to that in the past. We use ratcheting cargo straps to secure everything we can now. Catching a 5 ton floor jack in the face pretty much ruins your day.
Rob,
that is a valid concern and we have lost people due to that in the past. We use ratcheting cargo straps to secure everything we can now. Catching a 5 ton floor jack in the face pretty much ruins your day.
So..... you guys don't have MOLLE pouches for your floor jacks:eek:
30 cal slut
08-31-09, 13:57
So..... you guys don't have MOLLE pouches for your floor jacks:eek:
man, you guys think of everything.
That's what we did with our Land Cruisers as well, although the jack remained in the very rear of the trunk which was separated by the ballistic door from the main cabin. The roll over has claimed many lives in Iraq unfortunately, particularly in the early years of the war where tearing down a road was the standard MO.
Rob,
that is a valid concern and we have lost people due to that in the past. We use ratcheting cargo straps to secure everything we can now. Catching a 5 ton floor jack in the face pretty much ruins your day.
Iraq Ninja
09-03-09, 15:08
Lashing the jack to the floor is still common, but the best thing I have seen is a custom wooden box.
First of all, it was made for a floor jack, not your common little car jacks. The box was made to fit the jack perfectly, with one end open. The box was then bolted to the floor. When the rear door was closed, it kept the jack from moving. The box was divided in two. the left side held the jack, and the right side held a large tow strap.
This allowed quick access to the jack. If you strap your jack down, you not only have to take time to unstrap it, but strap it again when you are done. If you are in a bad situation, you want your tire drills to be quick and this box helps.
I have also seen jacks lashed to the roof. This is safer and saves room, but can be very slow. I prefer the box method, and lash the hooligan bar to the roof to open any stuck doors. We always lash it on the left side, since most IEDS will hit your right side. It offers a bit of protection for the bar.
The tow strap is S rolled in the box to allow it to be quickly deployed. Many people keep the tow strap strapped to the outside of the vehicle, but the sun may degrade it over time.
Lashing the jack to the floor is still common, but the best thing I have seen is a custom wooden box.
First of all, it was made for a floor jack, not your common little car jacks. The box was made to fit the jack perfectly, with one end open. The box was then bolted to the floor. When the rear door was closed, it kept the jack from moving. The box was divided in two. the left side held the jack, and the right side held a large tow strap.
This allowed quick access to the jack. If you strap your jack down, you not only have to take time to unstrap it, but strap it again when you are done. If you are in a bad situation, you want your tire drills to be quick and this box helps.
I have also seen jacks lashed to the roof. This is safer and saves room, but can be very slow. I prefer the box method, and lash the hooligan bar to the roof to open any stuck doors. We always lash it on the left side, since most IEDS will hit your right side. It offers a bit of protection for the bar.
The tow strap is S rolled in the box to allow it to be quickly deployed. Many people keep the tow strap strapped to the outside of the vehicle, but the sun may degrade it over time.
The box sounds pretty good. I'm wondering about smaller vehicles. Some of the armored packages eat up room in a hurry (as you know). Did you mount the jack front to rear with the opening to the rear (long ways) ?? I wonder if it could be mounted left to right (sideways) with the opening to the rear (the long side of the floor jack).
What also sounds good about "the box" is if it's covered and opens to the rear you can pile shit on top and still have access to it.
Iraq Ninja
09-04-09, 02:03
Yes, mounted long ways. That way, you just open the rear door and pull it out. Sideways would make it more difficult, but could work if you are not in a hurry.
I also suggest removing the spring on the floor jack that pushes up the handle. You really don't need it, and if your handle comes out while under the vehicle, it can be a bitch to get it back in due to the female socket pointing up.
You can also cut a piece of wood the length of the floor jack and store it in the box, under the jack. The wood is used in soft dirt or sand as a base for the jack.
Skintop911
09-09-09, 23:25
Soldier Systems (http://soldiersystems.net/) lists this newcomer, looks interesting:
http://www.teamwendy.com/order.cfm
http://www.teamwendy.com/uploads/TSC_set1.jpg
IN I'm actually working on a box just like that to cover the whole floor at the rear of my SUV. Some areas will be as you describe with access from the rear with the hatch open, some will have hinges and latches to hold them shut. I'm going to put some recessed tie-downs on it and carpet the whole thing to match the stock interior.
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