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cfrazier
08-19-09, 03:42
At the range today with two new mmbers of the dept. And one of them is shooting his personal 21SF. When the trigger begans not to reset, armorer tore it down and found that the trigger itself was splitting. Gun only has 800rds through it. Have a concern due to dept. is going to switch to 21SF, already have them ordered. Has anyone heard of this happening?

Robb Jensen
08-19-09, 08:22
Replace the trigger bar and rock on. Stuff breaks.

ToddG
08-19-09, 09:35
Clearly, he was limp wristing it while shooting reloads. Lucky he didn't open a black hole and decimate the entire planet.

Or, alternatively, "what gotm4 said."

eXistenZ
08-19-09, 22:19
...And if there is a gun that opens a black hole to decimate a planet I WANT ONE!:D

That would be the 10mm. http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbs%20up.gif

cfrazier
08-19-09, 22:36
That would be the 10mm. http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbs%20up.gif

I was thinking maybe .50AE:p

Business_Casual
08-19-09, 22:48
And for my department to invest over $40,000 in new guns and have the possibility of them developing such a unusual problem so soon is a major financial concern for the county.


Then write into the contract a paragraph that says "if our guns break, you come fix them."

M_P

Spiffums
08-19-09, 23:11
That would be the 10mm. http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbs%20up.gif

10mm is like Chuck Norris on Crack.

eXistenZ
08-19-09, 23:20
10mm is like Chuck Norris on Crack.

Good to see someone who gets the joke http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbs%20up.gif

Joe Mamma
08-20-09, 07:14
At the range today with two new mmbers of the dept. And one of them is shooting his personal 21SF. When the trigger begans not to reset, armorer tore it down and found that the trigger itself was splitting. Gun only has 800rds through it. Have a concern due to dept. is going to switch to 21SF, already have them ordered. Has anyone heard of this happening?

I've never heard of it happening.

If you can post a picture, I'd appreciate it. I'm always interested in seeing these things. It might also help us to diagnose what the specific problem is.

Joe Mamma

RAM Engineer
08-20-09, 07:28
The concept is called Infant Mortality. Sometimes manfacturing defects show early.

It's also possible that this is a purely random failure and NOT infant mortality. That's the thing about random failures: They can happen at any time and their probability of occurrence does not depend on the age of the system or it's parts.

If you see a second failure of the same type within a similar amount of rounds, THEN you can worry.

Trust me, I do this stuff for a living.

bobafett
08-20-09, 08:17
And I thought I was the only one who could pick a defective Glock out of an entire display cabinet :D

I've had a:

G17 not feed reliably (bad mag catch)
G21 striker seize in a pistol after 200+ rounds (Firing pin channel cracked at breech)
G31 barrel split after 1500+ rounds

They might be nice guns but they ARE NOT perfection :rolleyes:

JonInWA
08-20-09, 08:54
Welcome to the concepts of entropy and statistics. Despite the best of intentions, the best of materials, the best of quality control, stuff like this will inevitably occur with ANY product made by man. The key is for the manufacturer to 1) analyize the situation to objectively insure that it is indeed a statistical/materials/production fluke, or 2) correct a systemmic issue in materials or production which was the causal factor, to preclude it from happening to others.

ToddG's current P30 test is a case in point. So-identify the issue, go on line with the manufacturer (Glock, in this instance), get a replacement part, and move on.

There is a bit of a red flag here though-you mentioned that the problematic Glock was a personally owned G21, which begs the questions-Was he the original owner? Had he (or anyone else) done ANYTHING to the gun in general, and to that part specifically? Had the gun been maintained in accordance with Glock protocol (which isn't too tough)? What solvent(s) were used in conjunction with maintenance? While I've never heard of this specific problem, nothing particularly surprises me (re: see man-made comment above), but there may be a bit more to this than meets the eye.

Best, Jon

Dave Berryhill
08-20-09, 09:17
I've been out of the Glock loop for a while - does the 21SF have a different trigger than other Glocks? In other words, if it uses a standard Glock trigger then it really isn't a problem unique to the model 21SF.

forgiven
08-20-09, 13:16
Glocks in 9mm
HKs in .40 and .45

Robb Jensen
08-20-09, 14:00
I've been out of the Glock loop for a while - does the 21SF have a different trigger than other Glocks? In other words, if it uses a standard Glock trigger then it really isn't a problem unique to the model 21SF.

The only difference is the ejector/connector housing and the frame.
Everything else is the same meaning a standard G20/21/29/30 trigger bar fits it.

cfrazier
08-20-09, 18:17
Welcome to the concepts of entropy and statistics. Despite the best of intentions, the best of materials, the best of quality control, stuff like this will inevitably occur with ANY product made by man. The key is for the manufacturer to 1) analyize the situation to objectively insure that it is indeed a statistical/materials/production fluke, or 2) correct a systemmic issue in materials or production which was the causal factor, to preclude it from happening to others.

ToddG's current P30 test is a case in point. So-identify the issue, go on line with the manufacturer (Glock, in this instance), get a replacement part, and move on.

There is a bit of a red flag here though-you mentioned that the problematic Glock was a personally owned G21, which begs the questions-Was he the original owner? Had he (or anyone else) done ANYTHING to the gun in general, and to that part specifically? Had the gun been maintained in accordance with Glock protocol (which isn't too tough)? What solvent(s) were used in conjunction with maintenance? While I've never heard of this specific problem, nothing particularly surprises me (re: see man-made comment above), but there may be a bit more to this than meets the eye.

Best, Jon

The owner is the original owner. Nothing done to the gun bone stock. My understanding is the gun was bought a few months ago and at qualification is the most it had been fired. Unsure on solvents.

Jimbo45
08-20-09, 21:45
Well, I'm not sure what exactly you mean by the "trigger splitting", and I'm trying to picture why a fracture of the polymer portion of a Glock trigger would prevent the trigger reset. This doesn't make sense, and pics would be necessary to accurately describe an unusual problem like you are claiming.

As above stated, the G21SF, shares the exact same trigger assembly as the G20, G21, G29, and G30 ('cept for the serrations on the subs), and nearly the exact same trigger as the rest of the Glock line up. So, if this guy's trigger actually did split, then it has nothing to do with it being a 21SF, and you shouldn't worry about others of this particular model having the same issue.

variablebinary
08-21-09, 04:04
It's a Glock. Short of it blowing up, it can be fixed in 5 minutes tops. It probably took longer to write this post