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View Full Version : New Glock 19: FTE's



AR15thur
08-22-09, 19:37
I just got my first Glock 19, I've got a 17 that I've grown to like after some initial brass in the face aggravation, and wanted the little brother for carry

It's a new, third gen, phosphate/park coating finish.

I put somewhere between 50-75 rounds through it in the last two days, so about 100-150 total this weekend.

The first shot out of the gun, the casing hung in the chamber, but I had no more FTE's that day.
Today though, I had three FTE's. I didn't notice anything that triggered the malfunction.

Here's a drawing of how all 4 FTE's looked before I racked it out of the chamber.
(please excuse bad MS-paint, i think you can get the idea though)

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp115/ramseyarthur/malfu.jpg

Does anyone have any clue as to what might be causing the problem?

I'm not real thrilled with my Glock experience so far. Hopefully I can get this taken care of.

Jay Cunningham
08-22-09, 19:38
What ammunition?

MSP "Sarge"
08-22-09, 19:46
Limp wristed ? Weak wrist ? Stove pipe. Gotm4 or Grant would know. They'll chime in soon.

AR15thur
08-22-09, 19:49
Sorry, I knew I forgot something.

Ammo was Remington UMC.

And it wasn't limp-wristing. If it's that susceptible to it, then I've got no use for the gun.

Robb Jensen
08-22-09, 19:52
Sorry, I knew I forgot something.

Ammo was Remington UMC.

And it wasn't limp-wristing. If it's that susceptible to it, then I've got no use for the gun.

UMC is the next closest ammo to that loaded to squib.
Try a box of +P and see if it stops.

MSP "Sarge"
08-22-09, 19:53
Don't know man. Someone with great expertise will jump in here soon.

AR15thur
08-22-09, 19:58
UMC is the next closest ammo to that loaded to squib.
Try a box of +P and see if it stops.

I ran close to 150 rounds of it through the 17 this weekend with no problems whatsoever.

I did shoot some +p defensive ammo through it as well, and it ran fine, but I don't have a lot of faith in a gun that's picky about ammo. I've had M&P's and XD's that never hiccuped once on anything, reloads, UMC, WWB, whatever.

Robb Jensen
08-22-09, 20:53
I ran close to 150 rounds of it through the 17 this weekend with no problems whatsoever.

I did shoot some +p defensive ammo through it as well, and it ran fine, but I don't have a lot of faith in a gun that's picky about ammo. I've had M&P's and XD's that never hiccuped once on anything, reloads, UMC, WWB, whatever.

Intersting I've seen every brand of gun choke on weak ammo, I guess our levels of experience are quite different.

Glocks are chambered in 9x19 (aka 9mm NATO) this is about what kind of pressure +P ammo. Remington UMC is about the weakest ammo available in 9mm. FWIW I've never seen it make minor power factor for USPSA out of a Glock 19.
PF is measured by bullet weight times velocity divided by 1000.
125 is minor, 165 is major.
Meaning if your 115gr ammo isn't going at least 1100fps you're probably not making minimum (aka 'GAMER') power factor for velocity for competition. This should be a very BIG hint that it's really friggin' WEAK. This is a clue that nothing is wrong with the gun but that EVERYTHING is wrong with the ammo.

Redhat
08-22-09, 21:01
I used UMC once and it barely flipped the brass out of my G19...had no stovepipes though.

Based on that experience, I don't care for it.

MisterWilson
08-22-09, 21:02
UMC 9mm is the single worst ammo available in my experience. It's the only type I've ever had jam in a Glock and I would sooner trade it for Wolf.

I would attribute your failures to the ammo entirely, and would bet a dollar that you won't have any issues with WWB, Wolf, S&B, etc.

steeltoe
08-22-09, 21:08
Call Glock cs and they can help verify you have the correct mags. There may still be some of the bad followers out there. If so they will send the correct ones for free. FWIW my g19 doesn't care what you feed it.

Have you tried your g17 mags in it?

zephyr
08-22-09, 21:31
I have 1000's of rounds of UMC out of my G19 with no problems at all. Its the only target ammo we can get around for anything approaching a reasonable price.

ToddG
08-22-09, 22:21
UMC 9mm is definitely very weak. However, it should still cycle a G19 properly. You might just have a gun that is sprung a little tight. Try putting 200 rounds of more powerful (preferably +p/+p+/NATO) ammo through the gun to break it in and then see if the UMC is working.

Are the magazines new? Are the FTEs occurring at a certain point in the mag (full, empty)?

Are there any signs that your ejector is out of spec?

I have to tell you, stovepipes of that sort in a Glock are most often associated with inadequate control of the gun under recoil (aka, "limp wristing").

8200rpm
08-22-09, 22:54
I have a brand new G19 that did that stovepiped once while I was intentionally "chasing" the slide during recoil (aka limp wristing). I wanted to see how much I could let the gun recoil before experiencing any adverse effects. Ammo was 115 gr. WWB.

It's a strange sensation to be able to feel the momentum of the slide AFTER muzzle rise... almost like a 2 stage recoil. With broken in recoil springs, heavier frames, tighter grip, and/or stouter ammo, recoil and slide movement feels like it's happening simultaneously.

N.Franklin
08-23-09, 04:44
This is why I only shoot WWB, Lawman, or mil surplus when it comes to ball ammo for my 9 mils.

tpd223
08-23-09, 04:59
We have quite a few Glock 17s and 19s here, along with a bunch of G26s used as BUGs. The only time I have seen an issue is with downloaded ammo.

I strongly suspect it's the ammo, along with being a new gun with a healthy recoil spring.

The CCI Lawman ammo is loaded rather stout for generic ball ammo, that would be a suggestion to try.

FWIW, if you get the occasional failure from practice ammo then you get free surprise training at clearing stoppages. As long as the gun shoots your carry ammo reliably you don't have an issue.

AR15thur
08-23-09, 06:38
We have quite a few Glock 17s and 19s here, along with a bunch of G26s used as BUGs. The only time I have seen an issue is with downloaded ammo.

I strongly suspect it's the ammo, along with being a new gun with a healthy recoil spring.

The CCI Lawman ammo is loaded rather stout for generic ball ammo, that would be a suggestion to try.

FWIW, if you get the occasional failure from practice ammo then you get free surprise training at clearing stoppages. As long as the gun shoots your carry ammo reliably you don't have an issue.

I agree with you on that last point, but at the same time, I run IDPA about once a month, and I don't see myself running Federal HST through the competition.

USBP379
08-23-09, 07:16
I'll give you a hundred bucks cash, right now. ;)

tpd223
08-23-09, 07:31
Yeah, that's why I suggested the CCI ammo, it's loaded hotter.


I'll give you a $150 for it :p

Just a though, we had a G17 running funny a couple of years ago, new from the box, turned out the gun was assembled with the spring loaded bearing missing.
You might make sure all the parts are where they should be, if you haven't already.

zushwa
08-23-09, 07:43
And it wasn't limp-wristing. If it's that susceptible to it, then I've got no use for the gun.

How do you know??

spr1
08-23-09, 08:05
I watched a buddy with a new G19 a few years ago have all sorts of function problems with a box of UMC crap he picked up. Malfs went away with his next box of Remington branded "golden sabre" (not UMC) 115's. It ran like a top with absolutely everything except the near squib load UMC's.
A different buddy tried some UMC recently from his ammo locker in his well broken in G19, and while it functioned, the POI was different than everything else. It was essentially only good for very close range drills.
I have not tried Federal American Eagle 115 in a long while, but that used to be very weak as well (20 years ago).
Try a few boxes of good ammo through it and the bet is the problem goes away.

AR15thur
08-23-09, 08:19
How do you know??

If I held the gun any tighter I'd crush it.

Kilroy
08-23-09, 10:17
And it wasn't limp-wristing. If it's that susceptible to it, then I've got no use for the gun.


If I held the gun any tighter I'd crush it.


What is your level of training? There is some good information here, but the users background, and thus ability, is still an unknown.

Did you clean the gun before use?

Your second comment is also interesting. I am coming up on 10K rounds through my G19, and I don't use a tight grip at all. I just apply proper fundamentals in accordance with training.

I use Speer or Black Hills Ammunition (new/reman) and Remington Lead Free.

AR15thur
08-23-09, 10:24
What is your level of training? There is some good information here, but the users background, and thus ability, is still an unknown.

Did you clean the gun before use?

My only real training comes from my Dad who was a police officer for 20 years. He's pretty experienced with Glock and other semi-auto's, but more experienced with revolvers for sure. He's not had a chance to shoot either of these Glocks yet though.

I've been shooting IDPA for a while and have done well in the past, and I practice pretty frequently.

And yea, I cleaned the gun before I used it using the Glock manual's instructions.

glockeyed
08-23-09, 10:36
not to hijack, but is it only UMC 9mm that are week?

i just find this thread interesting, since i have never had issue with umc in 9 and .45, in fact i love their 44mag

however you couldn't give me any of remmy's .22 ammo.

M4arc
08-23-09, 10:45
Much like GotM4 I've seen just about every gun choke on just about every brand of "practice" ammo out there. I had a H&K USP9 that wouldn't run (7/10 failures per mag) until I put about 750 rounds of 124gr +P through it.

I know a lot of people on Glocktalk will tell you that Glocks don't need a break-in period but my experience says otherwise. Get 500-1000 rounds through it before you start to worry and fuss about reliability.

Jay Cunningham
08-23-09, 10:50
I had a lot of CCI Blazer that was a bit underpowered. It caused some malfunctions in my Glock 19. Back in March LAV was standing beside me watching me shoot a drill and he observed that the ejected cases were "just dribbling" out of my pistol.

However one of the first things that I did when I bought my Glock 19 new was to shoot 1,000 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P, which is my carry ammo. A little expensive but worth the peace of mind.

Dave Berryhill
08-23-09, 13:00
Take a close look at the hook on the extractor. I've seen several Glock extractors chip over the years.

Oh yeah, don't limp wrist it! (sorry, I couldn't resist)

zushwa
08-23-09, 14:58
It's not so much about how tightly you grip the weapon, but about how much the frame of the weapon is moving when the gun is in recoil. In my experience, G19's are particularly succeptible to "limp wristing" (frame moving too much during recoil) when shot with weak ammo. I can choke a G19 with the right ammo on command...but with +P duty ammo I can't replicate that feat.


Bingo. Not so much one or the other, but both together and you will have malfunctions.

FYI, squeezing the **** out of it doesn't necessarily mean you have a good grip that will manage recoil and mitigate malfunctions caused by "limp wristing".

Better ammo and some training might prove that 19's overall value and ability.

As many have mentioned, if you still aren't happy I'd be glad to take it off your hands, at a discount of course, since it malfunctions and all... :)

Keesh
08-23-09, 17:15
Even with weak ammo like UMC, there should be no excuse for it not running.

tpd223
08-23-09, 17:35
"Even with weak ammo like UMC, there should be no excuse for it not running."

Actually it would be.


I'm curious what kind of velocity that particular lot of 9mm is giving. Lately my experience and feedback is that Remington's ammo QC hasn't been very good. They might have switched powders, or downloaded the ammo just a bit, which would be a real issue.

Keesh
08-23-09, 20:24
Actually it would be.

I've shot over 1000 rounds of that stuff with my 19 when it was new and never had a problem. Any decent handgun should fire factory ammunition without any hiccups. I love my Glock 19 but if I had that problem I wouldn't think twice about selling it or sending it back.

tpd223
08-23-09, 21:30
You make the bold assumption on little to no information that the gun in question is bad and the ammo is OK.

I will admit my theories are conjecture, and stem from my own experience.

Sometimes, bad ammo happens, sometimes bad guns happen.

I haven't seen or even heard of a bad G19 lately, but I have noted all of the major ammo manufacturers seem to have an issue with QC over the past couple of years, even with the premium duty ammo. Remington in particular seems to be having more troubles than most.

I rountinely attend classes with these guys; http://www.tdsatulsa.com/courses.php?course=ACP1 where I fire 1700-1800 rounds through my Glock in a weekend.

In the past three years on my job I've seen nearly a million rounds of 9mm go downrange launched from G17s and G19s, hence my perspective.


Just sayin.



OK, I have to add, I'll give you $175 for the gun, I'll even pay shipping, final offer :-)

M4arc
08-24-09, 06:48
I've shot over 1000 rounds of that stuff with my 19 when it was new and never had a problem. Any decent handgun should fire factory ammunition without any hiccups. I love my Glock 19 but if I had that problem I wouldn't think twice about selling it or sending it back.

What would you buy that you're so certain it wouldn't choke on weak ammo as well?

Cypselus
08-24-09, 11:10
There are a lot of folks in here vastly more knowledgeable and experienced than I am, but my $.02 worth of piling on is that UMC is weak with spotty QC; Glocks do tend to need a little break-in; and this really, really does sound like 'limp-wristing'. Try some Fiocchi or some Lawman if you can get them. Both tend to much more vigorous than UMC or WWB.

And don't listen to these thieves. The gun's worth at least $200.

AR15thur
08-24-09, 11:29
There are a lot of folks in here vastly more knowledgeable and experienced than I am, but my $.02 worth of piling on is that UMC is weak with spotty QC; Glocks do tend to need a little break-in; and this really, really does sound like 'limp-wristing'. Try some Fiocchi or some Lawman if you can get them. Both tend to much more vigorous than UMC or WWB.

And don't listen to these thieves. The gun's worth at least $200.

Throw in a henway and it's yours :cool:

Thanks for the help and replies, I'll see if I can get better results with the info you guys gave me.

Keesh
08-24-09, 18:44
What would you buy that you're so certain it wouldn't choke on weak ammo as well?

A Glock that works.

zushwa
08-25-09, 03:17
A Glock that works.

I know there are MANY guys here that shoot and see more Glocks than I do, but I've seen and shot a fair share. More importantly, I've seen more students than most. Do you know how rare a "bad" Glock is, compared to how OFTEN I see a shooter limp wristing?? Do you know how often I hear a shooter complain about a Glock not being accurate ("my sights must be off..")? Do you know how rarely it's the gun?

Of the 3 things that could cause the problem the original poster had, in order of cost and likelihood, they are shooter, ammo, and gun. The cost could be argued if it's a simple gun part or he attends "expensive" training, but that doesn't refute the likelihood of the cause.

M4arc
08-25-09, 08:14
A Glock that works.

Dude, take a deep breath and listen to the people in this thread. Any gun can choke on poor ammo including Glocks. It's no secret that I love Glocks and I own eight currently but I've seen each of them have a stoppage for one reason or another every now and again.

When using practice ammo (WWB, UMC, American Eagle, etc) expect to get a bad or weak round every once in awhile.

I also suggest you stay away from Glocktalk because those clowns will have you believing that no Glock, in the history of Glocks, has ever, for whatever reason, ever suffered a single malfunction. That is simply inexperience talking.

lowspeed4u
08-25-09, 09:57
again just someone elses .02 but if you really want to see if you are limp wristing it, turn side ways and shoot one handed if the gun runs that way you are doinng something wrong when you face the target and grip with both hands. (following recoil, limp wristing, anticpating the 9mm break) from what I'm seen you can do alot to a gun just by how your holding it. Like so many have said if your shooting under powered ammo that's goinng to cause a problem, then you can start playing with the spring weight. Get to atleast power factor though.

I have caused a 1911 shooting 45acp to stove pipe by bending my arms to much trying to create a spring effect (like shooting an open gun) with my arms.

tpd223
08-25-09, 23:40
If you fire the pistol sideways, and it runs, you are doing something wrong?

So, if you fire it sideways and it has a stoppage, you are doing something right?

Is that what you just posted?

lowspeed4u
08-26-09, 16:47
If you fire the pistol sideways, and it runs, you are doing something wrong?

So, if you fire it sideways and it has a stoppage, you are doing something right?

Is that what you just posted?

not the gun sideways. you sideways like in bullseye shooting. one handed. the something right would be that you figured out you are limpwristing in so lock your writ.

82ndtrooper
08-26-09, 17:11
Only time I've had stovepipes is when the gun was not lubricated properly, or at all.

I don't use UMC ammunition either.

AR15thur
08-27-09, 06:57
I tore it down last night to give it a good cleaning so i can try it out again this weekend.

I noticed that the guide-rod/spring assembly is sitting at a noticeable slant. I checked the Glock 17 as well, and it was the same story. I know that I'd placed the guide rod flush with the notch in the barrel assembly, but it now sits at a slant.

Again, I give you bad MSPaint as an example. The bottom pic shows how the rod looked after I took the gun apart.

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp115/ramseyarthur/guiderodpic1.jpg

Is this normal, does the guide rod sit at a slant after racking the slide?

vaglocker
08-27-09, 09:59
Was the UMC the yellow box or green box? I've never shot the yellow box stuff but put 1000's of the green box through my 19 with 0 issues.

AR15thur
08-27-09, 10:04
Was the UMC the yellow box or green box? I've never shot the yellow box stuff but put 1000's of the green box through my 19 with 0 issues.

yellow

tpd223
08-27-09, 22:38
Yes. when you seat the recoil spring assembly it is in the notch, when you remove the slide from the frame it will be sitting slightly out of the notch. This is normal.

If you go to put the slide right back on to the frame, you need to re-seat the rear of the recoil spring guide rod into the notch or you may break it when you put the slide back onto the frame.

ROADKING
08-27-09, 23:15
MY G19 shoots anything. i use blazer brass for practice and critical defense for carry.