View Full Version : Tac gear on a budget
I was looking for some good quality gear on the cheap. I am not the HSLD type and just want to purchase some decent equipment for general SHTF, carbine classes and possibly some type of tactical carbine matches. I currently compete in USPSA Production class with a tweaked S&W M&P Pro.
While searching around Ebay I found the following SDS Molle II FLC vest. It cost me ~$25 shipped. I also bought the attached SDS triple mag pouch for $11 shipped. I bought this stuff based on price and what I assumed would be good quality. When the items arrived I was amazed at the quality of the materials and workmanship for the price.
As you can see I still need a few pouches. I have some double 30rd covered pouches on the way. I'm looking for a double pistol mag pouch. I don't like the SDS pistol mag pouches but don't want to spend a fortune. I'm looking for something that can be configured either closed or open topped. Any suggestions?
I welcome any suggestions and recommendations regarding additional high quality budget minded gear and configuration.
Thanks!
Here is a link to a PDF user's manual for the FLC vest.http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=10982550be7d49386b21be4093fab7ace04e75f6e8ebb871
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1043466/flc%20(Medium).jpg
BLACK LION
08-25-09, 16:40
Condor makes some good stuff... So does TRU spec... 5.11 gear is not all that expensive and GALLS has 20% off till 09/30... on the lower end is Voodoo Tactical and Mil-Spec gear....
edmorseiii
08-25-09, 20:00
There is a thread on AR15.com about these USGI FLC's. They are doing all kinds of dyeing to the material and some of them look pretty good. I just ordered 2 from the address below for like 8 bucks a piece. There are also various links in that thread to surplus sites that sell mag pouches and stuff like that really cheap.
I am in the same boat as you, no real need for all the fancy cool guy stuff, just wanted something for classes and matches.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=10&t=270564
http://www.ghilliesuits.com/molledesertcolorloadbearingvest.aspx
Ed
Just ordered one from ghilliesuits.com, $14.31 shipped, seems like a good deal.
I added a link to the user's manual for the FLC vest in PDF format. I think it's pretty informative.
Just ordered one from ghilliesuits.com, $14.31 shipped, seems like a good deal.
I got a few from them too. Great price for a decent piece of gear. Wideners has the 3 cell mag pouch M&P45 shown for $4 as well as some other surplus molle gear. I ended getting two 3 cell mag pouches along with some pistol mag pouches(ok, but not great) and a molle canteen pouch(seems pretty useful). The mag pouches were in good shape for being that cheap. I did find one problem though. One will accept pmags and the other won't. Not the end of the world, just something to consider if you use pmags.
Here's what wideners has.
http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=668|883
Those are some really good deals at Wideners. I spent a little more because I wanted the ACU pattern. The ACU stuff seems to run more. Probably because it is current issue?? I bought one of the 6 mag bandoleers as well. It is a very nice way to grab 6 additional mags in a hurry.
Got my vest already! I am surprised at the quality considering the low cost.
I think the buckles are getting cut off, I have no use for them and they are pretty uncomfortable.
Well I guess it depends on what you mean by budget, but,
IMHO buying American - whatever it may be - can go a long way and is sometimes even a cheaper option.
For example, compare the prices on the Blackhawk single AR mag shingle, vs. the Tactical Tailor shingle they copied it from (it used to be about $25 and $12, respectively)
Tactical Tailor can offer up some really good deals on pouches and MAV chest rig bodies from time to time, if you're not picky about the pattern/color. A lot of people will probably tell you that a MAV with the X-harness is one of the most comfortable setups you'll find. I got one of mine, with X-harness, for about $60. New will be about $80, IIRC.
Another good start might be the basic Eagle universal chest rig... SKD Tactical sells a version with some of the fixed pouches replaced with MOLLE webbing, as well as the original. It'll run a tad under $80.
You can save a lot of money on vests and pouches by keeping an eye on used stuff in the for-sale sections on forums. If you're looking at good stuff - TT, SOE, Paraclete, ATS, etc., you don't really have to worry about servicability. If you gave me $100 and told me to find a basic vest or chest rig setup that could hold a some rifle mags, a couple pistol mags, and some utility stuff or a canteen, I could probably get all good quality US made gear on that budget.
You don't need to really be picky about pattern and color, either, unless you want to avoid black for concealment reasons. You can hit the nylon with RIT dye or a dusting of krylon to tone it down if it is lighter than you'd like - I had good luck dying an ACU pattern RAID pack with coyote-ish RIT dye.
A side bonus to buying US is that you can probably resell it later without too much difficulty.
Well I guess it depends on what you mean by budget, but,
IMHO buying American - whatever it may be - can go a long way and is sometimes even a cheaper option.
For example, compare the prices on the Blackhawk single AR mag shingle, vs. the Tactical Tailor shingle they copied it from (it used to be about $25 and $12, respectively)
Tactical Tailor can offer up some really good deals on pouches and MAV chest rig bodies from time to time, if you're not picky about the pattern/color. A lot of people will probably tell you that a MAV with the X-harness is one of the most comfortable setups you'll find. I got one of mine, with X-harness, for about $60. New will be about $80, IIRC.
Another good start might be the basic Eagle universal chest rig... SKD Tactical sells a version with some of the fixed pouches replaced with MOLLE webbing, as well as the original. It'll run a tad under $80.
You can save a lot of money on vests and pouches by keeping an eye on used stuff in the for-sale sections on forums. If you're looking at good stuff - TT, SOE, Paraclete, ATS, etc., you don't really have to worry about servicability. If you gave me $100 and told me to find a basic vest or chest rig setup that could hold a some rifle mags, a couple pistol mags, and some utility stuff or a canteen, I could probably get all good quality US made gear on that budget.
You don't need to really be picky about pattern and color, either, unless you want to avoid black for concealment reasons. You can hit the nylon with RIT dye or a dusting of krylon to tone it down if it is lighter than you'd like - I had good luck dying an ACU pattern RAID pack with coyote-ish RIT dye.
A side bonus to buying US is that you can probably resell it later without too much difficulty.
I was actually looking at the MAV because it's $44 on sale in the tan right now but I'm wondering how you complete it for under $100 even with this primary piece being on sale. The molle options to add on can start to add up pretty quick. I would like maybe four single stack AR15 mag holders, a two or so Glock mag holder, dump pouch and possibly a holster for a Glock standard frame handgun on the right side. Just curious how you would equip this vest with what options and how much it would run.
I've also been checking out the Eagle stuff and it seems pretty tough to beat for $80 or so shipped. Those guys are US and ex-mil too, correct?
I'm also a decent size guy so I need to take that into consideration as well when making my decision.
Condor makes some good stuff... So does TRU spec... 5.11 gear is not all that expensive and GALLS has 20% off till 09/30... on the lower end is Voodoo Tactical and Mil-Spec gear....
Hey dude, this isn't a personal shot at you because you don't know what you don't know, but all those brands are shit.
I only deal in the best shit, so I'm an elitist bastard. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate a good deal or recognize budgets and priorities.
If you want gear on a budget the best recommendation I can make is RESEARCH. There is a ton of information out there about good kit, kit guys put their lives on the line in. Do you want to keep buying cheap gear because it's cheap or spend a little time researching and spend money once knowing it's going to WORK and LAST.
I see guys spend THOUSANDS of dollars on a rifle but a couple hundred dollars on support gear is blasphemy?
And finally, if you're on a budget or new to buying gear don't automatically assume what one guy is running is the best thing FOR YOU. Find someone with some experience (real, varied, and long term experience if possible) and convey your needs to them. There is a wealth of those kinds of people here.
Let me know if you need any help.
And finally, if you're on a budget or new to buying gear don't automatically assume what one guy is running is the best thing FOR YOU. Find someone with some experience (real, varied, and long term experience if possible) and convey your needs to them. There is a wealth of those kinds of people here.
I would counter this a bit and say that it's important to make sure that their experience is similar to what you want to do, or that you are able to filter what they are telling you through your own use. I have had people with "real world experience" try to tell me I need all sorts of things or types of training but my needs are considerably different than those of someone running around Iraq or Afghanistan.
Case in point is trying to find plates to fit my armor carrier. One guy (not a GG guy, someone else) told me I needed to ditch it all, go with a BALCs soft cut, a complete plate carrier that takes 10.5" wide plates, shingles for 8+ magazines, etc. Kind of missed the point.
While real world experience is valuable, it may not always be applicable.
I would counter this a bit and say that it's important to make sure that their experience is similar to what you want to do, or that you are able to filter what they are telling you through your own use. I have had people with "real world experience" try to tell me I need all sorts of things or types of training but my needs are considerably different than those of someone running around Iraq or Afghanistan.
Case in point is trying to find plates to fit my armor carrier. One guy (not a GG guy, someone else) told me I needed to ditch it all, go with a BALCs soft cut, a complete plate carrier that takes 10.5" wide plates, shingles for 8+ magazines, etc. Kind of missed the point.
While real world experience is valuable, it may not always be applicable.
Agreed. That's why I said "varied". Plus I should have said "people" not "someone".
My earlier statement of "you don't know what you don't know" applies to plenty of people.
I agree on researching and buying the good stuff. I figured the GI surplus stuff would be a decent stop gap until I can actually attend a class and see what my needs are. It's not the best quality, but it's made in America and should be fairly decent since it was made for our troops. That being said, I do understand that there is much better stuff. For example I have one TAG m4 mag pouch that is WAY higher in quality than these pouches http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?p=WX2&i=164174 .
In the interest of cheaper gear that is good. Tactical Assault Gear is having a 40% off labor day sale. DSG arms also has good deals on TAG gear from time to time.
Tactical Tailor is selling a variety of tan gear for 20% off right now. If I had some money I'd like to pick some TT gear up since it would work with both my molle and alice gear.
I received a bunch of the SDS Double 30rd pouches recently. They are very versatile. I have loaded them with 30 round GI mags as well as Thermolds. Both work fine. There is a 1" wide elastic strip that helps secure the mags. Even a single mag with the flap open is pretty secure. They also work well with USGI 20's leaving enough mag sticking out to get a good grip. I have also tried them with 20rd FAL mags. A single FAL mag fits very nicely. I will now have two FLC's, one for 5.56 and one for 7.62x51.
I will post some pics when I have some time. I only have a crappy cell phone pic in a for sale thread in the EE (I have six extra's if anyone is interested)
Those don't look too bad. They sure look a hell of a lot better than the federal textiles ones I got from sportsmansguide. They ended up only being $3 a piece, but that's about all they're worth. I hope our troops don't use them anymore.
Those don't look too bad. They sure look a hell of a lot better than the federal textiles ones I got from sportsmansguide. They ended up only being $3 a piece, but that's about all they're worth. I hope our troops don't use them anymore.
One thing some civilians don't realize is that just because the military used it doesn't mean it's worth a shit. Often times the intentions are to give the military the best but once something goes for bid it is very often produced by the lowest bidder.
This isn't always the case, but more common than people think. I just don't want people to think "the military used it" and think it MUST be quality.
That being said, anything used by the military is almost always better than the knock off ghetto shit made by some companies.
One thing some civilians don't realize is that just because the military used it doesn't mean it's worth a shit. Often times the intentions are to give the military the best but once something goes for bid it is very often produced by the lowest bidder.
This isn't always the case, but more common than people think. I just don't want people to think "the military used it" and think it MUST be quality.
That being said, anything used by the military is almost always better than the knock off ghetto shit made by some companies.
Exactly. For what I'm up to(hopefully some classes some day, the rare zombie attack, etc.), the mag pouches will probably do ok. However, I would not want them if I was ever up to any hard use on a day to day basis. The same with the FLC's. I honestly don't know if they're that great since I don't see them used by troops(am I not looking hard enough?). I just saw a cheap way to get a molle system to play around with and not have to buy chinese junk. One of these days I'll upgrade to the good stuff, but for now I'm just going to try this stuff out to see what I want when I go for the quality gear.
PrivateCitizen
09-12-09, 22:08
Just some thoughts by a regualr guy …
Cheap gear, to me IS research, in effect.
I might offer that while some of this is not long term gear it does help you refine what you need to use for your circumstances.
As great as review and research are, until you strap it all on actually use it at a functional capacity, it's just nylon and buckles.
Even one piece of cheap gear can help you hammer out needs before tossing 100s on a piece that, while super-hot on forums, may be totally wrong for you.
Think of it as practice ammo. You'd never load it for patrol but you would to refine your technique, habits, and drills. The load the TAP or whatever before you go into service.
I am not at all advocating that you should take a 24.95 CTDirt rig into the center of a sandstorm. But knowing what you use best and identifying the right setup before you select the gear … gear that may help you save a life … that you will take there … is paramount.
Was that preachy?
Not preachy, but in my opinion not very prudent either. Why would you ignore the experience of others?? Would you buy a driveway full of shitty unreliable cars just to prove that a Camry is actually a great bang for the buck?
You guys can do what you want, but for me, I'm going to gather as much information as I can from experienced people and I'm going to buy the best gear I can afford. If the OP's question was about buying gear on a budget then why would you encourage buying more gear than necessary?
PrivateCitizen
09-13-09, 02:04
I don't think I advocated ignoring experience. Just saying that just because "internet personality A" uses a rig that runs 3-500 bucks to perfection does not mean you will or that it is right for you.
A plate carrier for instance. Sure, it looks cool, etc. But is this what I need?
I wholly agree that advice from those with extended knowledge, particularly on M4C, is extremely valuable. I would never suggest you discount it or not make an effort to read up on what is here.
But finding what works for you is a detailed process and it seems a little presumptuous to think that you can have all the info you need with out at least some practical application.
If you have a buddy who has stuff, somewhere can borrow, or access then great. If not, one or 2 low cost examples can get you closer to what you need better than a single high dollar piece that fails to meet your needs. I am not implying you should fill your guest room with the stuff.
Just a different opinion on how to get there.
Dude, you said buy CHEAP gear. That's what I'm pinging on. I agree to try the gear out if possible. What I hear from you in your last post is trying different configurations and what works for the individual. I agree, to an extent, but I still think narrowing down the needs of the individual and then buying the best gear you can afford within that application.
Further, trying cheap gear doesn't give a true representation of quality gear. If I wore a shitty cheaper than mudd plate carrier and it sucked does that mean plate carriers suck? Why not research and find a few reoutable plate carriers with the features you need and find one within your budget??
Please realize I'm not just this way about gear. I'm this way about everything. Cars, guns, gear, training, cigars, etc. I'll buy the best I can afford or go without until I can afford something quality.
I think I understand what you're saying about trying gear to find what works for you but that can be WAY more expensive than just researching and buying good gear the first time. I'm really trying to save people the time and money that I've spent over the years. Attached is a picture from 04 or 05. I don't have ONE piece of that gear today. The good news is it was all quality so I definitely got some of my money back out of it.
Sorry to M4C for the LF catalog. I kept it in the photo for the date reference.
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_0023Medium.jpg
Failure2Stop
09-13-09, 09:50
If you just want something to stick mags into while at the range, whatever you get will be just fine.
To really understand what separates quality gear from crap gear, you need to experience crap gear. Gear that is too small to actually fit the items you want to carry, are too tight to let you get to them in a timely manner, weak stitching that fails after a few months/weeks/days/hours, poor design that places everything at slightly the wrong angle or location, poor dyeing- which results in color loss and bleed-through when it rains/river crossing/you fall into puddle, imprecise cut- whick leads to friction and misery because the gear doesn't ride right, and finally- stupid design- which means everything from trying to carry too much, too little, stupid placement of ancilliary pouches, and an odd love of lots of little buckles.
I have broken more gear than you will find in most catalogues. I didn't break it by throwing it under Amtracks or trying to use it for vehicle recovery. I broke it though use. Use that taught me what works and what doesn't. I remember what works, and I recommend that stuff to the people I like. There are lots of guys like me doing the same.
You can take the advice of experienced guys that have broken a lot of stuff and save yourself a lot of money, time, and marriage counseling, or you can try to reinvent the wheel. I know which path I would have rather traveled, but there weren't many guys back then that knew anything about anything other than the stuff that was issued.
I think I'll bow out of this one and say the more experienced memebers here have it right on this issue.
I never expected all of the "controversy" over suggesting that not everyone needs to spend a fortune on web gear. I presented what I still consider a great deal for the casual shooter. I hope the shit doesn't ever hit the fan but I feel that I am way better prepared now than I was before I bought SDS gear. I will likely use this stuff for a class or two and maybe a local carbine match. Is it the ideal solution for everyone? Not likely but for less then $100 I have a rig that I can configure for all of my immediate needs and isn't made in China.
I am no stranger to quality gear either. I compete in USPSA production class with an M&P Pro worked over by Dan Burwell. I use a BladeTech kydex holster hung off a wilderness instructors belt. Is it the most exotic rig at the monthly matches I attend? Far from it. But I have never had a single equipment failure after thousands of rounds in competition and training.
Occasionally I compete with my beloved West German P226 or my M&P 45. For mag pouches I use Blackhawk CQC singles. That would make some cringe but they work very well for me with all three pistols I may compete with.
All that said I do not turn my nose up at the high dollar HSLD gear. If my life depended on it I would have no problem spending my money on the best gear available. I am happy that gear is available to those that require it.
Excuse the rant.
-TT
I have a tan carrier. Has anyone dunked one in black RIT dye?
Will the tan Velcro(R) take the dye also? I know Nylon absorbs water so I believe it dyes pretty well.
kaltesherz
11-17-10, 00:08
For cheap(er) quality gear check out USMC issue pouches / gear on ebay. It's usually made by Eagle Industries, who make excellent kit, and since it's issue you can buy it for a great price, plus it's in coyote brown and not GravelPat aka ACU. There's good deals to be found, esp for M4 and 9mm pouches. Be aware some of the 9mm pouches may be a little tight on some mags, but are easily modified to fit.
I personally HATE issue FLCs and only wore one voluntarily when I was a SAW gunner, as 100 and 200 nut sacks are hard to carry on anything else.
While some of the budget stuff these days may look nice when it's new, after some hard use and time and you'll see why it's so cheap. I was given a few unmarked M4 shingles when I was overseas and they fell apart after a couple months and later found out they were made by Condor. For the record Army issue SDS stuff always proved durable, just not very practical.
Shooting is an expensive habit, but there's ways to keep the price down and the quality up.
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz98/greygrouptraining/IMG_0023Medium.jpg
This picture reminds me of dumping my ILBE coming back from Camp Bastion.
IMO, the FLC is one of those few items that makes little sense in a military context, but is actually very good civvy gear. The belt from it - not so much if you need to hang significant weight off it.
The other SDS stuff is great, as are the odd Specter, Eagle, and TT pouches we get.
A quality belt (it's okay to spend more to get quality and comfort), suspenders if needed, and a few good pouches is more than adequate to start improving a skillset. It seems you already have that, so if you want something more 'tactical', I'd look for something along the same line - not exorbetently expensive, but not sacrificing quality/workmanship from a sweatshop to meet a price point.
If you're looking to minimize spending, then the most effective way to do it is to only buy stuff that makes sense. I've got more than enough gear that sits in the corner - that's just added cost to the whole ensemble and doesn't even get used.
TurretGunner
11-23-10, 20:31
Not preachy, but in my opinion not very prudent either. Why would you ignore the experience of others?? Would you buy a driveway full of shitty unreliable cars just to prove that a Camry is actually a great bang for the buck?
You guys can do what you want, but for me, I'm going to gather as much information as I can from experienced people and I'm going to buy the best gear I can afford. If the OP's question was about buying gear on a budget then why would you encourage buying more gear than necessary?
Retracted
Moose-Knuckle
11-23-10, 21:53
I am in the same boat as many of you as I do not possess a superfluity of income. How ever I am a student of the school of thought; “that you only pay for quality once”. With the advent of such sites as M4C.com one can save a LOT of time and money by reading reviews of other’s trials and tribulations when it comes to everything from glass to kit.
I am a very frugal shopper and attempt to stay well informed on the various items that I may demand. I make most of my purchases on items when they go on sale or are reduced in price and from time to time items will go on clearance as they have been replaced with the latest in panty dropping technology. Also I would like to note that before you pull the trigger on your next online purchase Google that seller's name and "coupon code" for even more discounts such as a particular percentage off and or free shipping.
Recent examples:
OTTE Gear DK Heavy Jacket (softshell) picked up 50% off while they had a recent week long sale.
Two SF E1Ls 50% off at a local sporting good store who had no idea what the hell they had.
I could go on but y'all get my drift. . .
Gutshot John
11-23-10, 23:57
I'd consider picking up used gear on this forum. Plenty of bargains to be found.
Most of the money I've spent has been on shit I ended up hating without taking the time to accurately assess my needs.
If I were you, I'd consider an Eagle SKD Chest Rig (used if possible), run it through a couple of classes and decide if it works for you. While it's a quality piece of kit in its own right, if it doesn't work you'll learn a metric ton about what will and be able to sell it for most of what you spent on it.
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