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View Full Version : What is so special about the new Sig 228's?



welshrabbit
08-25-09, 14:38
Correct me if I am wrong but these are still made from the outsourced parts are they not? So what is so special about them?

Robb Jensen
08-25-09, 15:37
Correct me if I am wrong but these are still made from the outsourced parts are they not? So what is so special about them?

Rails?

Just guessing.

bgoode
08-25-09, 15:40
I think there milled slide and not stamped.

Oh - Just noticed you said new 228's

?????? I have no clue mow :)

woodandsteel
08-25-09, 16:40
Probably what M4 said, the rails.

I'm not interested in the railed option. I have wanted a P228 for the longest time. I was able to shoot one back in 1991 or 92, and I have wanted one ever since. I loved the overall design and the feel of the gun. The one I fired had a smooth trigger pull on it.

I know that rails are the future of handguns. But, I am always going to be looking for an older non-railed 228. I just wish that I had the funds right now for one. The older non-railed ones are not getting any cheaper.

sigmundsauer
08-25-09, 20:18
There is nothing special about them, except that they are a reincarnation of a "discontinued" and long beloved SIG Sauer.

I have one. The only feature it possesses that I actually value over my fully German P228s is the Nitron finish on the slide, which is leagues ahead of the delicate bluing of the original P228s.

Parts in the new ones suck. Period.

The only other curious aspect of the new P228s is that some of them were marked "U.S. M11." Some retained the unique markings; others were cross-hatched out. Regardless, some hate 'em, others value the uniqueness of the markings.

The rail? I could care less, but its never been offered domestically on a P228.

Tim

Redhat
08-25-09, 20:22
Any chance of seeing the P225 reintroduced?

JonInWA
08-25-09, 20:34
I'd be very, very surprised if that were to occur. While the last time I checked on SIG-Sauer's European website it was still catalogued and available as a law enforcement weapon, I find it hard to believe that there's been any actual new production for years, particularly since many, if not most of the states in Germany, and European LEOs that adopted it in the 1970s/1980s are phasing them out due to the end of their organizationally forecasted lifespan, and moving on to other, more modern (read higher capacity, with more ergonomic adjustments available, primarily polymer) pistols.

While I have a P225, and tremendously appreciate it, and enjoy shooting it (albeit not very often in the past year), I think that SIG has the market niche it occupies pretty well covered by the P228/P229/P239/P250; I just don't see it as being particularly feasible for them to re-introduce the P225-but I've certainly been wrong before.

If it would happen, I suspect that SIG-Sauer would time it to occur subsequent to the market being relatively thoroughly flushed of the surplus P6s. In the meantime, I think that those desirous of a P225 are best off taking advantage of the low-priced P6s, and sinking some money into replacing their mainsprings, recoil springs, and magazines (which are now still available from SIG-Sauer, albeit a bit steeply priced).

Best, Jon

Army Chief
08-26-09, 02:10
Jon's logic strikes me as sound.

You still see P6s in Polizei holsters throughout Germany, but new production for the commercial market doesn't really make much sense. It would be a bit like HK tooling up to make another run of original (non-M series) P7s for importation: given the secondary market availability, why would the average shooter go back to paying $1,200 for a pistol that can now be found for half-that?

The number of surplus guns available -- most in excellent condition -- makes new production unlikely, but it also makes getting a P225 of your own more affordable than ever. Personally, I would invest in a couple of ex-Polizei P6s for the same money as a LNIB P225, and never look back. Make a couple of the aforementioned spring changes, and you're easily in business for the next couple of decades. It's truly a win-win proposition.

AC

kmrtnsn
08-26-09, 02:18
What is special about it? Nothing. It is harder to find holsters for, none of your old P228/229 holsters fit because of the rails and reshaped trigger guard. It is a left over parts gun, nothing more. If you want a P228, which is a fine pistol, find a used classic model or a SIG refurbished, it'll be a better SIG than this parts bin special.

variablebinary
08-26-09, 04:03
I recall reading the new 228's were 100% German and imported, and dumped in the USA due to the P30 gobbling up some fat contracts in Europe.

Anyone know the full scoop?

Army Chief
08-26-09, 05:10
I can't speak to the former, but I do know that HK has met with some significant success (http://www.hecklerkoch.de/HKWebNews/byItemID///29/3/3/15) on the domestic (German) Zoll/Bundespolizei market, so perhaps there is some truth to this.

AC

variablebinary
08-26-09, 06:12
I can't speak to the former, but I do know that HK has met with some significant success (http://www.hecklerkoch.de/HKWebNews/byItemID///29/3/3/15) on the domestic (German) Zoll/Bundespolizei market, so perhaps there is some truth to this.

AC

I read the Norwegians and Cantonal police of Zurich also adopted the P30.

Apparently the Zurich Police is surplusing their P228's as the P30 is being phased in.

Would make sense that the P228R's would end up in the USA if their are less big agency European buyers.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/thoallen/2009_0803SIG2280006.jpg

JonInWA
08-26-09, 08:57
Without having the benefit of handling and comparing them side-by-side, I assume that the P228R and the current production railed P229 share essentially, if not exactly the same frame (perhaps with locking blocks differing between 9mm and .40/.357 varients). If that's indeed the case, the P228R represents more of a "parts-bin engineering" approach, as opposed to a surplussing of existing inventory. I'm unaware of any government or LEO specifically ordering a P228R (why would they-they could just get the stronger railed P229 in 9mm).

In this scenario, the only components likely surplus could be SIG-Sauer using the P228R as a means of divesting themselves of existing P228 slides and slide assembly components.

I don't mean to sound contrarian here, and I've had a previous "Classic" P228, and found it to be a likeable and flawlessly performing gun (I just didn't shoot it much, and preferred other guns in its niche, so I eventually sold mine), and have had multiple P229s (currently having a .357/.40 non-railed DAK), and I'm kind of hard put to figure out the appeal of the P228R over a P229, other than just to have one...I agree that a P228R is slightly lighter, and the slide girth is slightly slimmer, but I just don't find the differences to be that significant, and the P229 is a more durable gun (assuming, of course, that SIG-Sauer uses QUALITY internal components and subjects the guns to a viable quality control process for all market niches-but those caveats apply to either gun)...I've also been led to believe that the P229 is an easier platform to achieve a superior trigger pull on, either intrinsically and/or by after-market massaging...

Best, Jon

mark5pt56
08-26-09, 11:22
1986-89 I was in Frankfurt, FRG. I used to go to the Polizei range in Frankfurt with a Polizei buddy and shoot a bit. The P6(P225) was always my favorite. Some of the special units had the P7M8 and they were just getting some 228's in. Of course the MP5 to them was like the 870 to US LE-I've never seen so many MP5's in my life in one spot.

Back stateside, I had picked up a 225 over the 228, always felt better in my hand. The 239 is a nice piece, very accurate.

grimm
08-26-09, 12:48
Correct me if I am wrong but these are still made from the outsourced parts are they not? So what is so special about them?

There is absolutely nothing special about the new crop of 228s in the market. I will take the older triple serial # and german proofed ones anytime. They have generally better internal parts. A lot of interest, imho, comes from the fact the they were "discontinued" yet again here in the US. Just like the SS slide HKs popping up lately. They were "discontinued" as well many times over the past few years, and yet here they are again. I've seen people pay a premium for those too.

Army Chief
08-26-09, 13:17
I used to go to the Polizei range in Frankfurt [snip] Of course the MP5 to them was like the 870 to US LE-I've never seen so many MP5's in my life in one spot.

You're certainly right about that. A close friend here is a Polizei officer, and I've spent many an hour in various stations with him. It has always amused me how every little municipal outpost has a locker or two stuffed with old -- but very much good to go -- MP5s. Saw several last week in Frankfurt airport, too. You can't exactly fight an M4's battles with an MP5, but the little sub-guns continue to be the tactical weapon of choice for many.

AC