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RAM Engineer
09-03-09, 21:24
I know next to nothing about either gun, but I'm in the mood for an all steel 9mm pistol. I'm looking at either a CZ-75 B SA (single action full size) or a Browning Mk III.

I DID shoot a NRA basic pistol course using my dad's Hi Power back in college (I needed a single credit hour to remain full time) and liked the HP, but that's all I know.

All opinions are welcome.

Thanks,
Jason

cptx123
09-03-09, 21:40
I have both and like both, if I could only have one it would the cz.

Jay870
09-03-09, 21:55
If you like to tweak then the CZ hands down. The CZ trigger has far more potential, and a very active aftermarket.

jhs1969
09-03-09, 22:43
I am reverse from the first two replies. I've owned both as well, I do not have an urge for another CZ (don't get me wrong, they are very good pistols) but I miss my Hi-Power dearly. The CZ does offer many more factory options but I would say the Hi-Power can be tuned to a finer level by a good smith. For me personally the Hi-Power is a much better fit in the hand, the CZ feels like a big, heavy gun (and it is) where the BHP is easy to carry CCW for myself.

The CZ truly is a classic.

The BHP is an ultra classic.

Check out Brownell's selection on the BHP, they can be turned into a truly slick custom.

I am not knocking the CZ in any way, I actually like it a lot, I just prefer the BHP by a big margin.

Either way you should get a very good gun.

Good luck.

geminidglocker
09-03-09, 23:05
Damn, somebody get the Pop-Corn!:rolleyes:

Outrider
09-04-09, 03:07
I have both and like both. -The CZ's stock single action trigger seems a little spongy to me but I have heard it can be cleaned up a bit. The Browning Hi-Power needs its magazine safety disconnect removed to improve the trigger.

As has been said, the aftermarket support for the CZ seems greater. The CZ Custom shop at Ghost Holster has a bunch of stuff. You should look and see what some of your options are.

http://www.ghostholster.com/

http://czcustom.com/index.aspx

87GN
09-04-09, 03:23
I have both and like both...a lot.

If I had an unlimited amount of money I would own nothing but full custom BHPs.

But I don't, so I'm happy with my 1 BHP with a little work done to it. Out of the box I would pick a CZ over a BHP.

RAM Engineer
09-04-09, 07:37
Damn, somebody get the Pop-Corn!:rolleyes:

Why is that?

I could understand that attitude if I had asked a done-to-death or apples-to-oranges question like ".45 vs 9mm?"

However:

1. These are two guns that don't get a lot of discussion time
2. They are similar in that they are both double stack, steel-frame, 9mm pistols (a vanishing breed)
3. They are two guns I am interested in but know little about.
4. I did a search and didn't find a lot of info on either on the forum.

Jason

mike benedict
09-04-09, 08:40
I have had several of both and I really would buy a 9mm 1911 instead of either the CZ of Hi-power

I really like 9mm 1911's

Mike

TOrrock
09-04-09, 08:50
I feel that the CZ-75 is a product improved Hi Power.

I've owned multiple examples of both over the years, and vastly prefer the CZ. Part of that is that my wookie paws are just too big for the FN's grip. The hammer spur on a Hi Power just chews me up. The CZ has a longer grip and a is more ergonomic for me.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Hi%20Power/FMP-35Hand004.jpg



The CZ also uses a slide that rides inside the frame, which they adapted from the SIG P210. At the time the CZ was introduced, that was revolutionary.

I vastly prefer the older, pre-B CZ's manufactured in good 'ol days of the Cold War. They honestly seem to be better made. Maybe not better finished, but better made. If you get one of the older guns that were made prior to the firing pin lock, you can get a double action pull close to a nice S&W K frame revolver.

If you're looking strictly at the single action only design, I'm not as crazy about the placement of the extended safety on the CZ, and you'll probably want to put a steel trigger in the pistol.

The CZ's took the world outside the US by storm in the late 70's through the 90's, replacing many worn out FN P-35's in government inventories around the world.

Jeff Cooper was a fan, 'nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/CZStuff/CZ-75/P1000178.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/CZStuff/CZ-75/P1000181.jpg

Bob Reed
09-04-09, 14:55
Hello,

The only 9mm & .40 caliber pistols that I care to own is The Browning-Saive High Power. But, if I was forced to pick something else, then it'd be a CZ 75 B SA (Single Action Only Model).

Here's some good Browning High Power info.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/index.html

87GN
09-04-09, 15:03
I vastly prefer the older, pre-B CZ's manufactured in good 'ol days of the Cold War. They honestly seem to be better made. Maybe not better finished, but better made. If you get one of the older guns that were made prior to the firing pin lock, you can get a double action pull close to a nice S&W K frame revolver.


If we're showing off pre-B porn...then...

too much flash, I know.

http://www.545ar.com/ENCZslide.jpg

crusader377
09-04-09, 22:26
That is a tough call. I own both the BHP Mk III and a CZ-75B. I think they are very close in handling and both are very reliable. I have owned the BHP for over 10 years and the CZ for two years. I actually bought the CZ to keep wear off of the BHP. For me, the BHP feels slightly better in the hand and is the better of the two for CCW. The BHP also is a classic and will hold its value better than the CZ. On the other hand, the CZ is considerably less expensive and I have found it slightly more accurate at speed.

If I was you I would go with the BHP simply due to its collectors and historic value and they are getting harder and harder to come by. After purchasing the BHP, I would save and get the CZ as well. Both are excellent pistols and you can't go wrong with either of them. If you don't really care for the collectabily or historic value, then get the CZ because it is a much better value for the dollar.

MiggyE
09-05-09, 01:38
i agree with crusader377. i spent several summers long ago shooting hundreds of rounds and joining competitions using either of these two guns as stock (my uncle owned both back then, but he preferred using his Remington Rand 1911 National Match in competitions). both are basically very good steel framed 9mms.

like, crusader377, if your into nostalgia, or- as the others have pointed out- you don't mind a little customizing, then the Browning HP is a great investment. if not, and you want out-of-the-box action, then the CZ is the gun for you.

j-hon
09-05-09, 15:07
I grew up on 1911's and BHP's, but I'm a CZ convert. I too feel it's simply a better BHP.

Personally, I feel the '75SA platform is the best of the breed (with the possible exception of the new stainless'). Updated beavertail (upswept, which allows a much higher hold) different safeties, and a slightly extended mag release. Much more ergonomic for me, to the point where I've replaced 5 old-style 75'B's with the new frame (including converting one to DA/SA). I've had two Pre-B's, and honestly can't say I was hugely impressed.

FWIW.... The old style Pre-B's are generally regarded as having a better trigger because they lack the Firing-Pin-Block that many of the newer models have. I replace the FPB's in my guns with a $3 spacer from Angus and they are the same as a pre-B model. It's a 10 min affair to do so, with no negative trade-off that I've seen.

And because pictures are worth a thousand words:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/phrozenlikwid/DSCN0124.jpghttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/phrozenlikwid/DSCN0104.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/phrozenlikwid/CZ22Done.jpghttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/phrozenlikwid/IMG_2189.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/phrozenlikwid/IMG_2167.jpghttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/phrozenlikwid/IMG_2131.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/phrozenlikwid/IMG_2116.jpghttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/phrozenlikwid/CZ2.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/phrozenlikwid/p1010961wx3.jpg

JHC
09-05-09, 16:33
How would you guys with experience with both compare the trigger reset between them? I've shot Mk III's a good bit and liked them very much except I had issues with the reset when also shooting a lot of fast drills with Glocks and 1911s.

j-hon
09-05-09, 17:36
How would you guys with experience with both compare the trigger reset between them? I've shot Mk III's a good bit and liked them very much except I had issues with the reset when also shooting a lot of fast drills with Glocks and 1911s.

Stock... bout the same, I'd give the CZ a little edge (especially if it's a SAO). Neither are anything I'd exactly write home about. The real beauty of the CZ lies in what they become after just a little work. Complete night/day difference, using factory parts (15lb mainspring, Angus competition hammer, and ditching the FPB stuff is so equipped). CZ's come from the factory a little rough in the machine finish aspect. Some judicious polishing and the part swaps as stated above and it's really an entirely different gun, with a trigger that I think is on par with a tuned 1911. I've had tricked out BHP's with trigger jobs, and none of them can even remotely compare in that department.

For example.... My Kadet steel gun has a SAO trigger that breaks ~1.5-1.7lbs, as much or as little pretravel as I'd like (I prefer a lightswitch since this is a comp gun), zero overtravel, and a reset measured in MM. It also lights off all rimfire ammo, and has had zero trigger related issues.

RAM Engineer
09-05-09, 17:58
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/phrozenlikwid/IMG_2116.jpg

Hey! Who posted a picture of a Colt? ;) Seriously, though...what's the deal with these CZ-40s?

1. Who is "Angus" and does he have a website?
2. Templar recommended a "steel" trigger for the 75B-SA. The stock triggers aren't steel? If not, where can I get a flat steel one?
3. Anyone have any experience with the SP-01s? Their rails slots don't look optimum for an X300.

Thanks for all the info guys!

j-hon
09-05-09, 18:16
Hey! Who posted a picture of a Colt? ;) Seriously, though...what's the deal with these CZ-40s?

1. Who is "Angus" and does he have a website?
2. Templar recommended a "steel" trigger for the 75B-SA. The stock triggers aren't steel? If not, where can I get a flat steel one?
3. Anyone have any experience with the SP-01s? Their rails slots don't look optimum for an X300.

Thanks for all the info guys!


Back when the CZ-40B's were $250, they were probably one of the best deals in a handgun going. Think a commander 1911, in 40, with '75 guts. Pretty neat guns, but I've since sold both of mine because I never shot them (I really don't do much with 40S&W). I kinda wish I would have kept one, especially now since they are pushing the $500 mark, as I wanted to trick one out to see what it could do. There's a guy that goes by BurningSquirrels on the 'net who's probably done more with the 40B platform than anyone.

To answer some of your questions:

1. Angus is a CZ sponsored shooter, he runs the factory custom shop (www.ghostholster.com) and is an all-around pistolero badass. He's the guy who likely sets up the majority of the competition CZ's you see around (though there are several others in the game).

2. The early 75SA triggers were polymer. The newer ones I've got are all steel. I've never broke a polymer trigger, but I aslo usually swapped them out pretty early for the Angus versions because they are adjustable for pre-travel (the factory ones are only adjustable for over-travel). The Angus versions used to come in AL and steel, though I think now they are all steel (they are the ones pictured above). He has a new design out with a flat blade that supposedly makes the CZ more 1911'ish in trigger feel, but I've not shot one of those.

3. I've had two SP-01's, but ended up selling them. Cool guns, but I prefer the lighter profile of the '75 platform. The SP-01's are fullsize +p, so keep that in mind. Don't see as many people with them from the "duty" realm, but they have pretty much dominated every pistol competition they are legal in since inception (the Shadow being the USPSA production monster). No idea about the light thing, as I've never tried it. CZForum (www.czforumsite.info) would be the place to ask.

sdacbob
09-05-09, 19:32
I used to own a Pre B CZ 75. It was stolen not once but twice, never recovered the second time. I replaced it with a CZ75 Compact PCR. Both are great pistols and the compact holds 14rd +1. I also have a Hi Power. If I had to chose between the two it would be tough!

tex45acp
09-06-09, 08:02
I have owned both and they were equally accurate and functionally dependable, but for simplicity and ease of operation....I kept the Browning Hi Power. Remove the slide and look at the fire controls and you will see what I mean. I have seen them both customized and the Hi Power is truly a thing of beauty. Here are my two guns. I sold the stainless CZ to a buddy of mine who had just recieved his Texas CHL and wanted a full size, all metal, 9mm for carry. I still have the matte hard chrome Hi Power.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/mike_seale/CZ75SS.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/mike_seale/BHPNEWPARTS-1.jpg

armakraut
09-06-09, 08:12
The browning hi-power was the original glock. It's just a very reliable, simple design. I threw a lot of lead through mine over the years, very few malfunctions, miles beyond the 1911's I've shot though.

I purchased a pre-B CZ-75 not too long ago, and I have no doubt either the BHP or CZ would serve the end user well... unless you have gorilla hands. My preference is for the Browning, it's a simple and slim firearm.

This one was made shortly before Czechoslovakia went kaput as a communist occupied country. Cooper tried to get them to make a single stack .45ACP CZ75, they wouldn't have anything to do with that. I'll say this much, if he had been successful in getting them to make an "improved hi-power" set up like that, it would have killed the 1911 market. The CZ and Hi-power were the only 9mm's he had much of any praise for, and he did praise their out of the box reliability.

http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm448/armakraut/new%20firearms/cz75a.jpg

JonInWA
09-06-09, 10:02
I've had both CZ-75Bs and Hi-Power Mk IIIs and a Standard. While both are good guns, both have their strong and weak points. Given a choice between the two, I think that a modern Hi-Power is likely to be more durable (withing its forecasted lifespan), slightly more accurate, and more ergonomic (especially regarding the safety lever position). I think that the Hi-Power will potentially have the better triggerpull between the two, but in most cases that potential will be realized only after a knowledgeable gunsmith performs an action job on it.

Currrently, a CZ-75 is a FAR cheaper alternative, and much more available, and available in several variations.

I wouldn't feel undergunned with either, but out of the two, I personally have chosen to stick with the Hi-Power (albeit a Mk III in .40).

Best, Jon

Amicus
09-06-09, 16:42
My preference is (drum roll please):

The EAA Witness (a copy of the original CZ 75 with the newer "commander" style hammer; see, Armakraut's post above). I like the 75B, but prefer the Witness. The major differences are the internal safety (CZ 75B) and the more heavy frame and slide of the Witness. Also, the controls are slightly different (e.g., you may cycle the Witness with the safety on) and the guide rod is exposed on the Witness (as on a 1911).

MiggyE
09-09-09, 01:56
My preference is (drum roll please):

The EAA Witness (a copy of the original CZ 75 with the newer "commander" style hammer; see, Armakraut's post above). I like the 75B, but prefer the Witness. The major differences are the internal safety (CZ 75B) and the more heavy frame and slide of the Witness. Also, the controls are slightly different (e.g., you may cycle the Witness with the safety on) and the guide rod is exposed on the Witness (as on a 1911).

haha, Amicus! my carry right now is a Tanfoglio Force 9mm, which is the EAA Witness in the States. Your right, its a great gun. But, between the two here, it would depend on what he needs. CZ 75 if out of the box. and Hi-Power for the nostalgia and if your willing to smith it a little...:)