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bauer007
09-03-09, 22:15
I'm getting a Sig P220 from a buddy for $500 including case and 3 mags. Is this a good deal? Also will the P220 .45 and my 92FS be all I would need if the SHTF? Good idea to keep 4 92FS mags loaded or just 2 for the house/SHTF? Thanks

Alpha Sierra
09-03-09, 22:32
Define SHTF?

PS, I know what the acronym means. I want to know what Shit Hits The Fan means to you.

Personally, my primary SHTF weapons tend to be rifles and shotguns.

bauer007
09-03-09, 22:39
meaning if we ever have to bug out, run, etc. due to a natural disaster, crips/bloods coming for my SPAM, riots, zombies, etc....basically osama getting ALL of his legislation passed. Like you I have a 12 on standby at all times

John_Wayne777
09-03-09, 22:40
The S that is most likely to hit your F is some criminal scumbag who wants to hurt you...so I would suggest getting a weapon you can regularly carry on your person and some quality training to go with it.

bauer007
09-03-09, 22:43
suggestion's for some quality training?????? there's a really nice indoor range near me but i'd prefer somewhere that can provide every possible scenario.

RAM Engineer
09-03-09, 22:43
I think it would depend on how much sh!t you expect.

If "SHTF" means "Home Invasion" then 2-4 mags, a pistol and a flashlight would be a fine means for fighting your way to your long gun.

If "SHTF" means "total societal breakdown" then I'd want each person in the house to have a pistol on them at all time, with 3 mags, and 20 loaded mags per pistol stashed around the house. Plus one spare pistol per person (in case a pistol goes down for maintenance). Also at least one rifle and one spare rifle per person, with at least 40 loaded mags per rifle.

I guess I read too much Mel Tappan when I was a kid. ;)

bauer007
09-03-09, 22:46
Shame I didn't hit the $360 million MegaBall Friday night.....well me and 27 other fellas in our merry little band at work. I'd be looking at land in Montana or Wyoming right now.....waiting for my class 3 to go through.

geminidglocker
09-03-09, 23:01
As long as you remember that a pistol is only a way to fight your way back to your rifle, you'll be OK.:)

bauer007
09-03-09, 23:08
speaking of rifles and such are Magpul mags the way to go? 10 should do it?

John_Wayne777
09-03-09, 23:14
suggestion's for some quality training?????? there's a really nice indoor range near me but i'd prefer somewhere that can provide every possible scenario.

Larry Vickers.

A 2 day basic handgun class with Larry Vickers will teach you the fundamentals of using a handgun for serious social purposes. No single course will "provide every possible scenario". I've been through a lot of courses and spent a lot of money and I've still not been through "every possible scenario"...

A Vickers course, however, has the essentials...and if you practice those you will be FAR ahead of most people who carry a gun...even those who do it as a part of their job.

EDIT: PMags are good gear.

For most people who don't wear a badge or fast-rope out of Blackhawks to shoot terrorists in the face, a handgun is the most likely defensive tool. Carbines are great and are far superior in the kinetically pacifying miscreants department, but using one in a real self defense situation is going to be exceptionally rare for your average joe. My advice to folks just getting into firearms as a means of protection is to focus their money, time, and energy on the weapon they are most likely to have when it goes to crap.

bauer007
09-03-09, 23:18
I bet he's pretty expensive. He's great on Tactical Arms. Kyle Defoor is pretty awesome too. Love that shot he made through the silhouette target out to 100 yrds at the deck of cards.

John_Wayne777
09-03-09, 23:24
I bet he's pretty expensive. He's great on Tactical Arms. Kyle Defoor is pretty awesome too. Love that shot he made through the silhouette target out to 100 yrds at the deck of cards.

A two day course with Larry is $400 bucks. It's one of the best uses of $400 bucks you'll find.

A bunch of us have spent considerable amounts of time training with Mr. Vickers...and we're always eager to train with him again.

M4Carbine is an embarrassment of riches in the training department. We have a lot of top notch training opportunities advertised in the training forums including courses from Mr. Vickers, Blackwater USA/US Training Center, Magpul Dynamics, Tiger Swan, Ken Hackathorn, Grey Group....you name it. The best in the business advertise here, so keep an eye on the training forums and see what opportunities work out for you logistically and financially. You can also get a good honest read on the quality of instruction offered by various outfits in the AARs because most of the guys who write them up have a fair amount of training under their belt and can offer an informed opinion.

Larry and Kyle are much more entertaining in person than they are on TV. Trust me. ;)

geminidglocker
09-03-09, 23:26
Oh, and the rifle is only a way to fight your way to the rocket launcher.;)

John_Wayne777
09-03-09, 23:32
One more thing....for around 500 you can usually find a brand new 9mm Glock like the G19. Most would find that to be a better carry gun than a Beretta 92 or a Sig P220. They are relatively inexpensive, generally reliable, and easy to put good sights on.

Smith & Wesson's M&P is also a good option...albeit just a bit bigger than a G19. I personally prefer the M&P's...but it's hard to go wrong with a 9mm Glock.

bauer007
09-03-09, 23:38
Oh, and the rifle is only a way to fight your way to the rocket launcher.;)

Unless your rifle's sportin' a 203 on the undercarriage.

jp0319
09-04-09, 12:15
My current SHTF setup is a Glock 35 with a rail mounted light and two mags loaded with winchester ranger 180gr HPs. Oh and I rotate my mags once a week.

Alpha Sierra
09-04-09, 12:18
My SHTF weapon is whatever I have on me when the SHTF. About 99% of the time that is a S&W M&P, either the original or the newer semi auto one.

+1 on the training.

NCPatrolAR
09-04-09, 13:06
Oh and I rotate my mags once a week.

Any particular reason why?

Business_Casual
09-04-09, 13:10
I think the only rational response to "what pistol for SHTF, dude?" is:

Deagle.

In 50AE, 44 magnum at a minimum.

M_P

RogerinTPA
09-04-09, 13:47
I stock 12 mags per handgun. All of which are M&Ps. Probably over 100 Pmags and D&H Alum Mags for the carbeans and a metric crap load of ammo.

Things that you will never have enough of when the S hits the fan:

Firearms (including weapons proficiency/training)
Ammo
Food
Water
Medical supplies
Fuel
A plan to obtain the above, once it runs out.

And like minded folks who can have your back when you begin that basket ride.

Spiffums
09-04-09, 14:39
I stock 12 mags per handgun. All of which are M&Ps. Probably over 100 Pmags and D&H Alum Mags for the carbean and a metric crap load of ammo.

Things that you will never have enough of when the S hits the fan:

Firearms (including weapons proficiency/training)
Ammo
Food
Water
Medical supplies
Fuel
A plan to obtain the above, once it runs out.

And like minded folks who can have your back when you begin that basket ride.


And this just a good start.


You can't go wrong with a good P220. They are good for general use but not if Zombies attack. That is where you want your 9mm.

bauer007
09-04-09, 17:06
That's some weight there......especially loaded. A chunk of change too. Anyone buy mags from Cheaper Than Dirt? They've got the cheapest 92FS mags I've seen so far. Are they good as far as shipping and reliability? Do you get what you order or "knock offs"?

Redmanfms
09-05-09, 15:31
Any particular reason why?


Wondering that myself.

Spiffums
09-05-09, 19:35
That's some weight there......especially loaded. A chunk of change too. Anyone buy mags from Cheaper Than Dirt? They've got the cheapest 92FS mags I've seen so far. Are they good as far as shipping and reliability? Do you get what you order or "knock offs"?

I don't have any current mags from Higher Than Hell......errr Cheaper Than Dirt but I did some for a 92 several years ago.

While they work fine for range use and they work in my old Taurus PT92 which is what they are for really they have the base pad for the Beretta.

mattjmcd
09-06-09, 19:45
IMO, the most important thing about your SHTF gun is to have multiples of that platform. I have several handguns, but the SIG/Sauer P228 and the Glock are my go-to guns. I have 2 of each. The M&P is my new fave, though, and it will have a stablemate soon enough.

homeless
09-06-09, 20:36
$500 is a good deal for a 220. The only downside is the cost of .45, and that isn't really that bad Is this a milled or stamped slide model? The old German built stamped models are mild steel and will rust of not cared for, however many people seem to think the quality was better than the new milled stainless slide guns. Either way the gun will run.

Before the SHTF pick up some more mags, preferably factory, rebuild kits for the mags, and a few factory sping kits for the guns. because Brownells wont be open after TEOTWAWKI.

Beat Trash
09-07-09, 11:02
I'm getting a Sig P220 from a buddy for $500 including case and 3 mags. Is this a good deal? Also will the P220 .45 and my 92FS be all I would need if the SHTF? Good idea to keep 4 92FS mags loaded or just 2 for the house/SHTF? Thanks

The simple answer to your question can be best answered by you while at the range. If you can shoot both guns effectively, then they should serve you. If you can not shoot both guns effectively, then try something else.

I would recommend you pick one gun and caliber. Learn to use this effectively. By having one type and caliber of gun, it's easy to stock ammunition and magazines.

Quality magazines (I'd stay with the factory mags) can remain loaded without issues. If you're concerned, buy new mag springs every 2-3 years. Springs are cheap. How many magazines to keep loaded depends on how many you think you will need. It's a PIA to have to unload magazines, to switch out carry ammo for training ammo, every time you want to practice.

If you stick with one type and caliber of gun, you can keep a spare magazine in a handy place. I keep one in the center console of my truck.

I totally agree on getting some training. There was a quote on another topic from Col Jeff Cooper, "Owning a gun makes you a gun fighter about as much as owning a piano makes you a musician". Get some training from a competent source.

I also agree with John Wayne 777, in that for the $500, you could get a new Glock 19. This is in my opinion one of the best SHTF handguns out there.

There are many definitions of what "SHTF" means. Anything from a unexplained "bump in the night" to a robbery attempt, to another NOLA during Katrina, to who knows...

While this may seem rather simplistic (and yes, I have been accused of being a simpleton at times), I have come to define SHTF as any event that may cause you to say "Oh Shit" as you reach for a gun.

To the OP, try to determine the needs of the tool (mission), then try to find the best tool (gun) for you to fulfill that need.

John_Wayne777
09-07-09, 11:26
While this may seem rather simplistic (and yes, I have been accused of being a simpleton at times), I have come to define SHTF as any event that may cause you to say "Oh Shit" as you reach for a gun.


I'd have to agree. I mean, I have yet to hear of anyone saying "Well, one asshole trying to kill me is no big deal. Wake me up when it's a whole bunch of 'em."

Generally when you're convinced that you have to shoot somebody in the face to continue on this plane of existence it would qualify as a "SHTF" moment.