Need a pocket gun - Kahr P380, Sig P238, others?

[FF750]

After some thought about the different clothing and social situations I'm in during daily activities I've found I definitely need a pocket gun to compliment the full-size M&P40 I currently carry and the M&P40 compact I plan to match it with. There are certain times when even the compact M&P is going to be way too big such as when I'm wearing athletic shorts or in certain social situations so I'm now looking at a small .380 for pocket or ankle carry.

I've tried the Ruger LCP - didn't like it because the small trigger guard and long reset pinch my finger. I don't care for the fit and finish of the Kel-tecs and they seem hit or miss reliability wise.

So far the top contenders I seem to have left are the Kahr P380 and the Sig P238. I like the look of the Sig and the nice sights but I see some downsides in the extra step of disengaging that small safety lever to get it into action and the exposed hammer getting caught or fouled by something. Plus I haven't shot one. Then again I haven't shot a Kahr P380 either but I have tried a friend's MK9 which I actually enjoyed shooting. The Kahr seems expensive for what you're getting though.

So thoughts? Advice? Any other good, reasonably priced alternatives to look at?

[nickdrak]

As far as pocket pistols go, I really like the Kahr. I have never shot the PM380, but I have a PM9 that is awesome.

I would suggest the PM9 to anyone looking for a micro 9mm carry pistol. Get a nice IWB appendix carry holster, or one of the DeSantis "SuperFly" pocket holsters, and it disappears.

[ROCKET20_GINSU]

My two pocket pistols are:


S&W 642, J-Frame .38 spc in a mika pocket holster
Glock 26 in a fist pocket holster


*Both sport crimson trace lasers

I find that between these two it is very easy to carry on almost every occasion. I've tried the Kel-Tec's in .32 and .380 but they're not for me. Not too bad to shoot but the glock and snubby give me a better warm and fuzzy in the arena of reliability. YMMV

Stay Safe
GU

[Skintop911]

For pocket carry, I use J-frames and Glock subcompacts. I have little need for anything else, and they carry easily in my wardrobe.

Also on the acceptable list, the Ruger LCP or KT P3AT. The Kahr PM9 is a good choice. Verify function of all prior to carry.

I've not been impressed by the reliability of the Sig P238s I've seen. Nor am I fan of pocket carry of a single action auto. There really isn't a good reason to choose it.

[rob_s]

I'm looking at picking up either a Kahr PM9 or possible a j-frame. Not sure how much pocket use either would get, but I'm planning on adding a pocket holster and one or the other to my every day carry at home. Come home from work, take of the G19 and work clothes, slip into short pants and slip the compact into a pocket.

Interesting tidbit, the PM9 weighs 14 oz., 15.5 oz (http://www.kahr.com/dtlspec_pm9193.html) with the magazine (no ammo). The Smith & Wesson 442 is 15 oz. (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=11101&langId=-1&productId=82470&tabselected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=15704) unloaded.

I always would have thought that the J-frame would be lighter, but evidently it's not always the case. Problem is the Kahr is nearly $700 while the 442 is more like $450.

[Detmongo]

i use either one of my j frames or my g.26

[shooter521]

Of the two you mentioned, I'd take the Kahr P380 (when you can find one) over the P238, simply because I'm not a single-action guy. That said, the P238 is a really nice little pistol - SIG basically gave its GSR 1911 treatment to the Colt Mustang design. It can even use Mustang mags, which is nice considering how many of those are out there and how (relatively) inexpensive they are.

A friend of mine recently loaned me his P380 to test-fire for him, and I did so alongside the C&S-tuned Colt Pony Pocketlite which has been my 24/7 pocket gun for a few years now.

Here's my review, as posted to a state gun board to which I belong:
_________________

Hey, all! A co-worker of mine bought a Kahr P380 a couple months ago, but has been unable to shoot it due to ongoing health and scheduling issues. So he brought it to me along with a couple spare mags and some ammo, and asked if I'd wring it out and report back to him. Duh, OK. :D

So this afternoon I happened to be down at lovemywoods' place doing some troubleshooting on a couple of guns in preparation for NFA Day, and figured I'd shoot the little Kahr alongside my customized Colt Pony Pocketlite and do a bit of comparison/contrast. lovemywoods and esrice graciously agreed to help out. ;)

The P380 was unfired prior to today, beyond anything done at the factory before shipment. The Colt had a documented 725 rounds through it.

The Kahr and the Colt:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/misc%20guns/p380_pony.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/misc%20guns/p380_pony2.jpg

esrice shooting the Noisy Crickets:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/misc%20guns/evan_colt2.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/misc%20guns/evan_P380.jpg

My results:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/misc%20guns/p380_target.jpg

Some thoughts:
SIZE The Pony's grip is nicely hand-filling while the P380's seems almost too thin (think Kel-Tec P3AT or Ruger LCP here). Both guns only allow two fingers on the grip. The P380, being slimmer and lacking the beavertail found on the Pony, is a bit more concealable. Capacity on both guns is the same, 6+1. Advantage: None.

SIGHTS The P380's sights are of the "bar-dot" pattern but are extremely low profile. They are better than what pass for sights on the P32/P3AT/LCP, and are even preferable to the standard Pony sights (rear notch and integral front blade), but the custom Cylinder & Slide front sight on my Pony was much easier to pick up. Plus, the P380 shot consistently low at 7 yards. Advantage: Pony.

TRIGGER The P380 trigger "feel" is identical to that on my P9... smooth DAO with about 1/4" of take-up, ~6# break and a long reset. No surprises there. It blows the stock Pony trigger pull out of the water, and is shorter and lighter even than my C&S tuned example. That said, I felt I could manage or "stage" the Pony's trigger more easily. lovemywoods also preferred it by a small margin. Advantage: Pony.

RELIABILITY The P380 burned through 110 rounds including 3 types of FMJ and 2 types of JHP, without a single malfunction. The Pony had 1 malfunction in an equal number of rounds. Advantage: P380.

ACCURACY Despite the fact that it shot low at 7 yards with all ammo types, consistency and accuracy were outstanding. Average group sizes with the P380 were smaller than with the Pony, and I had multiple holes touching on several occasions. Advantage: P380.

In closing, the Kahr P380 would make an excellent backup or deep cover gun. It has usable sights, is small enough to conceal easily but has enough size and mass to be a comfortable shooter, has a good trigger, is quite accurate for its size class, and is boringly reliable. As esrice said, "it's everything Kahr, only smaller." :)

The P380 with factory night sights is supposed to be available by year's end... I will have one.

[Littlelebowski]

Have you looked at the Walther PPS?

[FF750]

Of the two you mentioned, I'd take the Kahr P380 (when you can find one) over the P238, simply because I'm not a single-action guy. That said, the P238 is a really nice little pistol - SIG basically gave its GSR 1911 treatment to the Colt Mustang design. It can even use Mustang mags, which is nice considering how many of those are out there and how (relatively) inexpensive they are.

A friend of mine recently loaned me his P380 to test-fire for him, and I did so alongside the C&S-tuned Colt Pony Pocketlite which has been my 24/7 pocket gun for a few years now.

Here's my review, as posted to a state gun board to which I belong:


I saw that review after googling p380 reviews and found it very helpful. My FFL actually has a p380 in stock. If I go with the p380, do you think it's worth waiting for the night sights (I noticed you plan on doing it)? I can see the advantage of the night sights but since I don't have a pocket gun yet I figured I might as well have a non-night sight model now that I can use and protect myself with rather than wait.

Have you looked at the Walther PPS?

I looked at the PPS but not the PPK/S so far. I have two Walthers already (a P99 and P22) so was naturally interested in the PPS but it and the Taurus 709 slim, Kahr PM9, Bersa, and KelTec P11 were all bigger than what I need. They kind of split the difference in size between the M&P compact I plan on getting and the P380. The way I saw it, if I were in a situation I could conceal one of those I could just as likely conceal an M&P compact. What I need is something small enough for deep concealment basically.

[shooter521]

I can see the advantage of the night sights but since I don't have a pocket gun yet I figured I might as well have a non-night sight model now that I can use and protect myself with rather than wait.

If you have nothing now, and your local guy has a P380 with standard sights in-stock, grab it. If you want N/S later, you can always send the gun in to Kahr or the 'smith of your choice to have them put on.

[Beat Trash]

For pocket guns, I use a Glock 26, a S&W 642, and a Kahr PM9.

Of the three, I feel the most confidant with the G26. The PM9 is the most used as a pocket gun/backup gun. The 642 is nice, but if choosing between it and the PM9, I always chose the PM9.

I want to like the new bread of 380's, but I can not seem to warm up to trusting the caliber, when I can go with a 9mm, in just a slightly larger, and still concealable package.

If you are comfortable carrying a 380 as a defensive caliber, I am not going to argue the point. But for me, not so much...

[MarshallDodge]

If you are comfortable carrying a 380 as a defensive caliber, I am not going to argue the point. But for me, not so much...

I feel the same way, go with a Kahr in 9mm and run some rounds through it.

[Cold Zero]

How about a Rohrbaugh Pocket 9MM or .45 ACP ?

Just to be different.;)

[buckshot1220]

I'm looking at picking up either a Kahr PM9 or possible a j-frame. Not sure how much pocket use either would get, but I'm planning on adding a pocket holster and one or the other to my every day carry at home. Come home from work, take of the G19 and work clothes, slip into short pants and slip the compact into a pocket.

Interesting tidbit, the PM9 weighs 14 oz., 15.5 oz (http://www.kahr.com/dtlspec_pm9193.html) with the magazine (no ammo). The Smith & Wesson 442 is 15 oz. (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=11101&langId=-1&productId=82470&tabselected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=15704) unloaded.

I always would have thought that the J-frame would be lighter, but evidently it's not always the case. Problem is the Kahr is nearly $700 while the 442 is more like $450.

Do some looking and you'll find the PM9 w/o night sights can be had in the $525 to $550 range and around $650 with nights.

As far as the OP goes, I have two pocket guns, a PM9 and a LCP. The PM9 has roughly 1,000 through her no hiccups except that for some reason it doesn't like Gold Dots. The LCP has 400 through it with no hiccups. Both are fine guns for the pocket though the LCP is more suited toward lighter materials/tighter fitting clothing.

[FF750]

For pocket guns, I use a Glock 26, a S&W 642, and a Kahr PM9.

Of the three, I feel the most confidant with the G26. The PM9 is the most used as a pocket gun/backup gun. The 642 is nice, but if choosing between it and the PM9, I always chose the PM9.

I want to like the new bread of 380's, but I can not seem to warm up to trusting the caliber, when I can go with a 9mm, in just a slightly larger, and still concealable package.

If you are comfortable carrying a 380 as a defensive caliber, I am not going to argue the point. But for me, not so much...

I thought about a PM9 long and hard and certainly would prefer to have a 9 over a 380 but as I mentioned there are certain situations where a subcompact 380 would be the only decent gun I could carry discreetly. You know what they say about the first rule of gunfighting is to have a gun in the first place. At least it's not a .22 or .25 :)

How about a Rohrbaugh Pocket 9MM or .45 ACP ?

Just to be different.;)

Looked at those too but man they're expensive! And seem to be just as hard to get as the P380 or P238.

As for the P380 the shop had, I was wrong and apparently that was just a display model and not for sale - wasn't clearly marked unlike the P238 display gun. Ironically, one of the guys I know there said they might give me a deal on the display model P238 so depending on what they give me I might spring for it.

[uranus]

I carry a Kahr PM9 in my right front pocket in an Alessi Roughout pocket holster. I haven't tried the P380, which is slightly smaller and lighter, but I haven't found the PM9 to be excessively heavy. Prior to the PM9, I carried a S&W 340PD, which is about 3 ounces lighter than the PM9, but I don't think that there was much of a difference in perceived weight while carrying. I went to the PM9 from the 340PD because I shoot better with the autoloader than I shot with the revolver.

[Savior 6]

How about a Rohrbaugh Pocket 9MM or .45 ACP ?
Rohrbaughs are nice little guns and fit a pocket really well. It just makes me feel better knowing that I have at least a 9mm on hand. Here is the only size comparison pic I have (R9s next to K9):
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc325/Savior_6/Toys/DSC01618.jpg

[PRGGodfather]

A .380 may be better than a poke in the eye, but there are no loads that meet the minimum penetration requirements for a defense gun, per the FBI protocols. As my brother Pat Aherne says, "If you shoot me with a .380 and I find out about it, I'm gonna be pissed!"

If one must have a .380 for this purpose, the P380 is a decent choice, although pricey. If landing on a Kahr, the PM9 is almost as small and provides better terminal ballistic performance. It's pretty darn tiny already, and one gives up significant terminal performance for negligible size and weight difference if choosing the .380 over the 9mm. For the purposes described, an SW 442 meets that mission very well, and since reloading is unlikely -- making the advantages of detachable magazine feeding moot.

For the record, I cannot encourage the use of .38 Spl or 9mm over .380 enough. Yes, properly placed, even a .22 can be lethal to humans, but given the dynamic aspects of real self-defense incidents, the .380 all too often comes up short.

Good luck, as I am certain Doc GKR would concur.

[Skintop911]

The difference in size, weight, and inconvenience between carrying a .380 and 9mm is so minimal that there just isn't a good reason to consider the former.

.380s are best left to third or fourth guns.

[rob_s]

So this thread, plus the LF thread(s) inspired me to dig some stuff out of the safe.

Mind you, I'm 6'1" and a litle under 170 these days so I'm a scrawny bastard. Guns tried were a Colt Mustang and a Keltec .32, both in pocket holsters.

I gotta tell you, I'm starting to think that I was right all along about pocket carry for me. Neither of these guns come close to hiding, and the Mustang prints so bad that it is painfully obvious that it is a gun. The Mustang pocket holster is from Kramer (http://www.kramerleather.com/productDetail.cfm?productID=25&categoryID=28) and the holster for the Kel Tec is from Sam Andrews (http://www.andrewsleather.com/pocket.htm#pocket).

From this experiment I don't think there's any way in hell I could conceal a J-frame, and I know for damn well that a Glock 26 ain't hiding like this on my body.

Just some food for thought. I'm able to have an un-tucked shit (t-shirt or polo) about 95% of the time whether at work or not and I think I'm going to be sticking to IWB. I just don't see front pocket as viable for my body size/shape/type.

[Dapimpspimp]

Pistols carried in pockets routinely need more cleaning and oiling than weapons carried in traditional belt holsters. Pockets tend to create alot of debris and lint that absolutely coata the interior and exterior of the weapons.

Because of this, I am a fan of Smith and Wesson 642 and 442 revolvers for pocket carry. The design does not need a lot of lubrication and tends to perform better when fouled with lint and debris. The ability of poorly maintained and/or fouled .380 to cycle reliably is a concern. From experience on the range with our officers, the .380 in my opinion is a no go. The PM9 would be a better option over the .380 in terms of reliability and terminal performance.

An advantage of the revolver over the auto, especially when carried in an outer jacket pocket, is the ability to be fired repeatedly through the pocket. I like the ability of having a firing grip on my weapon, with giving my opponent any indication that I am prepared for a gunfight. With the auto's, the slide can get caught inside the pocket and cause a malfunction after the first shot.

I realize that members of this forum are gun enthusiasts and probably take better care of their equipment than the average cop. My main concern would be reliability first and the next would be how well you shoot the weapon.

[PRGGodfather]

Definitely!

If pocket carry isn't for you (and it isn't for everyone), then IWB strong side is likely the most concealable and practical primary carry method. For this purpose, we would encourage selecting a holster with a rigid opening, to allow one-handed reholstering. Not all holsters are the same and the simple suede and clip holsters carry fine, but collapse for reholstering. Still, it's better than nothing, I suppose.

For IWB carry, both kydex and leather have their virtues. Humidity and comfort are factors which will need to be weighed for the individual user.

Bottom line: Carry a gun!! Preferrably, something which will provide terminal ballistics so you can overcome a self-defense scenario. Unarmed is unprepared, but being prepared is a lot more than just carrying a gun -- especially one with insufficient terminal performance.

Find a system that works for your body type and suits the greatest number of situations for your AO and its seasons. It makes sense to select clothing to fit your primary carry -- within reason -- than trying to get your carry to fit your clothes.

Still looking for one that works with a bathing suit, though...

[buckshot1220]

I agree that we should be carrying firearms chambered in service calibers, however, sometimes that just isn't possible.

I have an LCP simply because nothing else (even my PM9) would hide away while wearing a suit. If I left the jacket on yes, but most of the time the jacket comes off at some point and the print screams "Gun!"

Like another member stated "The first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun." I feel better about a having a .380 on me versus leaving my 9mm or .45 at my house.

Find a gun that fits your needs. Run it and make sure it is reliable. Train with it and get proficient with it. Carry it. Whatever "it" is.

[CobraBG]

My choice is a S&W J frame. It's an Air Lite Ti .38 +P 5 shot with a shrouded hammer. I carry it in a Desantis synthetic pocket holster in my right pocket and it hides very well. Shorts, jeans or slacks with a shirt tucked in or out... no problem.

It is light weight and easily concealable so I don't hesitate to carry it. :cool:

[John Hearne]

I've been using what amounts to a P9 Covert. Kahr stopped making them so I had a local gunsmith cut the grip of the P9 so that it takes PM9 magazines. I did this because I liked the simpler recoil system of the P9. The slide was then ceracoated and night sights added. It makes a damn fine pocket gun that I use as a BUG or a primary when I run.

[Marc]

What do you think about a Makarov?
Not too big, very slim, simple and realable, very good accuracy and a "good" ammunition between the 380 and 9mm.

Also have a S&W J frame, but a little "bulky" for most discreet use...

[LanceOregon]

I agree that we should be carrying firearms chambered in service calibers, however, sometimes that just isn't possible.

I have an LCP simply because nothing else (even my PM9) would hide away while wearing a suit. If I left the jacket on yes, but most of the time the jacket comes off at some point and the print screams "Gun!"




You cannot effectively conceal a PM9?

I really find that most hard to believe.

Heck, mine slips right into my pocket, and it does not scream "GUN!"


-

[buckshot1220]

You cannot effectively conceal a PM9?

I really find that most hard to believe.

Heck, mine slips right into my pocket, and it does not scream "GUN!"


-

Your first post and your calling me out? Is this a joke?

Maybe your bigger than I, or maybe you wear overalls?

Seriously though, my PM9 is a little more visible than I'd like when I'm wearing thinner materials such as a suit. I think I should look into Carhartt suits:D

[LanceOregon]

Your first post and your calling me out? Is this a joke?

Maybe your bigger than I, or maybe you wear overalls?

Seriously though, my PM9 is a little more visible than I'd like when I'm wearing thinner materials such as a suit. I think I should look into Carhartt suits:D


I'm sorry, but I think that you are the first person that I have ever seen anywhere COMPLAIN about the size of the Kahr PM9. So that was my honest gut reaction, as I found your post to be extraordinary in nature.

If you choose to wear clothing that makes concealment difficult, well, then that is a choice that you have made.

Myself, I choose to wear slacks that have big pockets. If pants don't have big pockets, then I simply don't buy them. Again, that is a choice, which I simply choose to make. I own a number of nice dress slacks that all have roomy pockets.

And you know what? I also carry a real thin wallet in the same pocket. My pocket holster is on the inside, with my wallet next to it. What does the public see in my pants: simply the outline of a wallet that looks completely normal. At worst, the public may think that I have a thick wallet, full of money and credit cards.

It is a very quick, easy and effective practical draw for me, that can be easily done one handed. My High Noon "Pocket Grabber" holster does a fantastic job.

And I do the same when I wear shorts in the summer. I buy shorts that have large roomy pockets. And my PM9 easily disappears into them too.

I experimented at one point with .380s too. I still own a tiny Colt Government model 380, which is now just relegated to being a collector's piece for me. I might even sell it some day, as prices for them have gone up so very much in recent years. And there are probably lots of guys who would absolutely love to carry it. The gun just wasn't for me. I really could never get into carrying it, despite trying to like it. So the gun still remains in fantastic condition.

In my opinion, the extra power of the 9mm makes dealing with the slightly larger size of the PM9 well worth it.

I've often seen on various message boards folks rave about how much easier the SIG 239 is to carry concealed, compared to any of the other model SIG handguns.

I often then post this photo below, where I photographed my SIG 239 next to my little PM9. The difference in size is simply enormous. In every dimension, and especially in both length and height, there is just no comparison at all.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/PM9_SIG2391_on.jpg


To me, the PM9 is just right.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/pm9.jpg



It all depends on an individual's point of view, really. I have actually seen a number of people post on message boards saying that they are comfortable carrying the tiny little NAA 5 shot .22 LR single action mini-revolvers. And I usually then quote to those folks the energy figures for the gun from the NAA website, which show how those guns make even a .380 look like a real powerhouse.

So how far does one want to go in making their gun tiny for the sake of easy concealment?? If that was the only factor to consider, though, then we would all be carrying this: :D


http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/bush.jpg



And that is about the only concealment option that I criticize and ridicule. I think that there is nothing wrong with carrying the Ruger LCP, if that is what suits you.



-

[buckshot1220]

LanceOregon- I didn't mean to come off as complaining about the size of the PM9. I just pointed out that in the most of the suits I wear the gun prints a little more than I'd like. I'm not taking anything away from the gun and to date I regard it as the best firearms related investment I have made. Simply put, I love the PM9.

That being said, we simply have two different schools of thought. You've mentioned that you will only buy clothes that suit your concealment needs. Basically, you shop and choose your wardrobe around your primary carry, and there is nothing at all wrong with that. On the other hand, people like me don't change our wardrobe or restrict what we buy based on whether a gun will fit or not. Hence, guys like me either wind up with an assortment of varying size handguns or, in some cases, guys just buy a mini CCW to begin with. Again, nothing wrong with this route either.

At the end of the day, we're all carrying and that is what matters.

[Ed L.]

I use a Kahr PM-9 for pocket carry. An important part of the equation is having a tailor deepen your dress pants pockets to give the gun more room so that it doesn't risk printing. Though most 5-11 type pants have enough pocket room, dress pants generally don't and will print hen you sit down.

It becomes a big issue for a gun for concealled carrry in a business environment where you have to pass the same people every day who might notice things that strangers on a street might not, and it might have repercussions for you if you work in an environment where corporate policy prohibits the carry of weapons that are otherwise legal to carry.

Here is a picture of my two pocket guns in Uncle Mike's pocket holsters. I have found that the uncle mike's pocket holsters work better than more expensive models.

Below is a picture of my Kahr PM-9 and S&W 640 both in Uncle Mikes holsters.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/eds-stuff/pockguns.jpg

The PM-9 is shorter and flatter and concealable within suit pants. Most pants come with shallow pockets, necessitating taking them to the tailor to have the pocket deepened.

My PM-9 worked fine except for one burp within the first two magazines. The gun's instruction book says they require a break-in peiod of about 200 rounds of ball ammo. Mine has had more than that number of hollowpoints without a problem.

The other gun is the S&W 640. This prints a bit too much for dress slacks or suit pants at work, but is fine in casual pants like dockers or 5-11s, providing you have had a tailor deepen the pocket. While the S&W 640 doesn't hold as many rounds as the Kahr PM-9, the shape of its grip makes it easier to grasp out of the pocket. It is not a problem carying concealled when out and about, but could be a bit bulky for whereing at work where you see the same people every day and may brush against them in close quarters like a copy machine room.

The great thing about pocket guns is once you get used to them they are very comfortable. Also, if need be you can have your hand on the gun and ready to draw, while to casual observers it appears that you simply have your hand in your pocket.

[LanceOregon]

I carry my PM9 in a High Noon "Pocket Grabber"


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3444/3751106500_085cc9cae3_b.jpg


It cost me an arm and a leg, though, as I had to order a custom one to fit my PM9, since I have installed a Crimson Trace LaserGuard on it. They have a standard production holster for the Ruger LCP with a LaserGuard installed, that is most affordable. But they had not yet adapted the holster for a LaserGuard equipped Kahr PM9, so I had to pay their custom holster fees.

Here is what my Kahr currently looks like outside its holster:

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/ct_laser_PM9_close_on.jpg


It is amazing how big and bright my Kahr's Laser Guard is. Anyone with a Ruger LCP should get this installed on their gun too. It is awesome.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/ctlaser_PM9_on.jpg



Here is what a Ruger LCP looks like with the Crimson Trace LaserGuard for it installed:

http://www.gunblast.com/images/CrimsonTrace-LCP/DSC05201.jpg

[buckshot1220]

LanceOregon- I've been looking at lasers a lot since I shot a KelTec with a laser at the range last week. As you know I have both the PM9 and LCP. I think the LCP will be the first to get the laser as I see it as more of a necessity with the lack of real sights.

[LanceOregon]

The Crimson Trace LaserGuard is a great product. It is so easy to install and sight in. And I was really blown away by how big and bright the dot it sends out is. I incorrectly thought that because it is so tiny, that it would not have much power.

Do consider the High Noon "Pocket Grabber" holster if you add the LaserGuard. These are quality made leather holsters, and they are made to precisely fit handguns. And they now have a model available for the LCP with the LaserGuard installed.

They also have the same type of sticky viscous material on them that the Nemesis pocket holsters have. So they really stay in place in your pocket.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2456/3751106358_7633e2edfa_b.jpg