Archangel armor- finally somebody is thinking

[Iraq Ninja]

Let face it, body armor design hasn't change much since the Battle of Hastings. The materials evolved, but the designers always want to hang the stuff on your shoulders in a way that is not the best for heavy loads.

Even our modern tactical vests can trace its basic design back to the old Second Chance bullet proof vests. I have always thought there was a better way, and it appears that Archangel may be on to something.

The idea seems simple- use modern backpack design and apply it to a tactical vest.

This may be the answer for troops having to carry lots of stuff on their kit.

http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/load-bearing-armor.jpg

Video

http://soldiersystems.net/2008/10/06/load-bearing-armor-from-archangel-armor-and-mystery-ranch/

[TimW]

Very interesting...until I FINALLY got the video to work, I imagined a backpack that had the armor integrated...which then begged the question, "What protection do they have if they have to remove the backpack if they're in a vehicle or get to the contents of their pack?"

The video answered that.

As a new innovation (how's that for redundant?), something just doesn't seem "right", but that's just the whole "it's new and the status quo has worked" thinking.

Wasn't Crye's original armor chassis sort of a similar set up...taking the weight off the shoulders and putting it onto the hips? I can't recall....

I am still now sure how the whole 'clip-on' backpack thing will work. It was tried with several assault vests (widely seen on TV during Stargate SG-1) previously, and if it was such a good idea, my thought is why didn't that idea survive?

I tried it a couple times using a vest, and the problem wasn't getting the pack off (except for the bottom buckles), it was putting it back on...it required a second person or the removal of the vest. How can this be overcome?

If nothing else, I think this out-of-the-box thinking can only lead to improvements in armor carriage systems.

[militarymoron]

Wasn't Crye's original armor chassis sort of a similar set up...taking the weight off the shoulders and putting it onto the hips? I can't recall....
the crye chassis is semi-rigid, and was designed to support and distribute the load more evenly - sort of like a frame sheet in a pack.

dana gleason from mystery ranch is involved in the archangel armour design by supplying the base frame, and also a pack that links directly to the base frame.

[BAC]

Looks cool, and I agree that it's better putting the weight on the waist than on the back, but I'm not sold on the attaching pack for reasons Tim brought up. Since that seems to be the only way to integrate a pack with this armor without doubling up on straps over the shoulders, I don't think this armor/pack system is quite ready just yet. I do like the idea of designing armor and packs to integrate with one another, though. On a side note, they seem to be going against the more recent trend in armor for raising the lowest edge of the armor, which might account for not being able to wear a belt in conjunction with this armor system.


-B

[Iraq Ninja]

Bac,

I am not even worried about the pack aspect of it yet, probably since I don't ever wear a large pack, like the majority of the soldiers in Iraq. A Stan is different.


MM, as you know, I have been using the Crye chassis for the past few years. I am thinking that even the CAGE could benefit from this system. One issue I have with the CAGE is how the rear plate sticks out. It does catch on a lot of things. Someone needs to come up with a pouch system to fill the sides, such as water bladders. I want something custom made to the shape of the CAGE.

In some ways I feel that kit development has reached a chokepoint, due to the weight of armor. Once lightweight armor is a reality, then I think we will see dramatic weight and mass savings.

[militarymoron]

MM, as you know, I have been using the Crye chassis for the past few years. I am thinking that even the CAGE could benefit from this system. One issue I have with the CAGE is how the rear plate sticks out. It does catch on a lot of things. Someone needs to come up with a pouch system to fill the sides, such as water bladders. I want something custom made to the shape of the CAGE.

the issue with that is finding a bladder low profile enough, and the right shape. as you probably know, i have both the Gen I and CAGE crye chassis, and have give it a lot of thought (out of personal interest in making accessories for it). the rear plate sticks out maybe 1" or 1.5", but water bladders tend to bulge into a cylinder shape when full. even the baffled ones create two cylinders. the side-mounted crye pouches with 70oz reservoirs do fill the space on each side of the plate, and are much lower profile than mounting one in the middle of the back plate, but they still add a couple more inches. so far, i haven't found a long, skinny baffled bladder that would work exactly as i want it to.
on my CAGE chassis, i have a Source kangaroo canteen mounted to the side of the back plate, and it provides a bit of water for sipping at the range.

besides water bladders - what else did you have in mind that you would you stick there?

[Iraq Ninja]

MM,

My goal is to not need a backpack at all. Also, to take the "life support" items out of my go bag and use it just for ammo. Basically, have enough on your vest for one or two days of E&E if needed.

My idea looks like a kidney bag, that fits/flows into the space next to the plate. This way, the back of the vest stays flat. I prefer this, not only for riding and driving in vehicles, but also to keep a lower profile in the prone.

I probably want one big, open pouch, and not segmented. The pouch could hold a bladder, or MRE components, sports bars, E&E kit, etc.

Here is a concept pic I made with photoshop.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/Iraqninja/multicam/crye-pouch.jpg

[militarymoron]

iraq ninja - access to a pouch located there would probably be limited to when you take the armour off. even with some kind of release - it's difficult to reach or put back on without help. would that be an issue?

[Iraq Ninja]

Not an issue for me in my role. Might be an issue for Mil folks. This is for stuff you only have to access in your patrol base or laying up position.

Another idea would be to have a pack that hooks around the rear plate, and "wings" out on the sides like my picture.

I also want to develop the idea of using the blast belt without suspenders. The idea came from Caleb Crye, who reported that some of his Tier One customers were using them this way. You just spin the belt around your waist to access things.

BTW, what the name of the velcro style stuff used to hold the pads to the inside of the CAGE, and would it work on mag pouches instead of regular velcro?

[militarymoron]

i think the velcro material was called veltex, but don't quote me on that. i can't remember exactly.

[Iraq Ninja]

Grey Group has the Archangel for sale now. Price is reduced too.

http://stores.greygrouptraining.com/-strse-3304/IFLBA/Detail.bok#

[zushwa]

Grey Group has the Archangel for sale now. Price is reduced too.

http://stores.greygrouptraining.com/-strse-3304/IFLBA/Detail.bok#

It's pretty fucking cool. Anyone local can come in and try it on. You can't truly appreciate it until you wear it.

[militarymoron]

josh - any thoughts on the location of the two SR buckles at the top corners of the front panel? that's exactly where i usually place my rifle butt.

[Iraq Ninja]

Josh,

It would be nice to see more pics of the Archangel, especially on a human. The one on your website appears to be a mannequin and makes it look a bit chunky. I am trying to get a feel about how bulky it is. I know there are other photos on the net, but as you said it has been going through lots of design changes.

Also, I assume it takes soft armor, but what cut?

[zushwa]

Josh,

It would be nice to see more pics of the Archangel, especially on a human. The one on your website appears to be a mannequin and makes it look a bit chunky. I am trying to get a feel about how bulky it is. I know there are other photos on the net, but as you said it has been going through lots of design changes.

Also, I assume it takes soft armor, but what cut?

I'll get one jocked up and some pictures taken. As a plate carrier, it currently holds plate backers, but there are plans for some other innovations in the future.

[Klear Above]

The current iteration of the Archangel IFLBA was built to be used as either a pure plate carrier with soft armor backers/stand alone plates, or to be used with a set of soft armor for more complete coverage. The kit was built to give 1" of protection around the plates (meeting the new standards). We don't have the full cut of armor on hand yet, but it will be coming down the pipe soon. There will also be a pack from Mystery Ranch that is custom designed around the IFLBA design. This carrier is in the grey area between what would be considered a traditional plate carrier (front and back plates and little else), and a full vest (RBAV, RAV). The innovations and comfort gained from placing the load into a well designed built in pack frame are worth the dollars. I genuinely hope that the carriers we push out to the open market go to people that are going to do the job for a living and will benefit from how good this gear rides. ;)

[Iraq Ninja]

The kit was built to give 1" of protection around the plates (meeting the new standards).

Thanks for the update. Can you explain this new 1" standard? I assume this is a new military requirement, and thus not based on logic or need. :)

My concern is working (PSD) out of vehicles, especially driving. The last thing I need is added bulk. I would be interested in hearing your opinion on how it works inside a vehicle, ride comfort, etc. I have no need for the 1" but I guess Big Army says the troops are better with it.

[Luckystiff]

Has anyone looked at this system for use for uniformed LE? Here is where I am coming from with this. Many departments K9 guys are running tac vests now a days. Some officers are using them because of back problems and all the gear we have to carry these days. In years past lots of LE (especially in hot areas) have used external vest they could take the vest off to cool down. Here is an example

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/usmarine0352/ExternalVestCarrier2.jpg

There has been a trend toward tac vests for uniform patrol due to the high rate of back injuries (I am one of the statistics on this one). If this rig could be set up for soft armor where the duty belt was integrated and the load of the belt and the vest were evenly distributed along with proper back support, this could solve a lot of issues. I have read many articles in the last 10 years that have said that uniform LE, with all the gear we are packing these days, are going to have to evolve to an integrated vest at some point. If soft armor was incorporated into the belt (think Blast Belt for inspiration) you could significantly increase an officer’s soft armor coverage. Uniform design would change as well. Officers could use this type of shirt design that would be more comfortable in hot weather:

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/rtr2010/newmulticam01.jpg

I hope someone at Archangel starts to think outside of the Mil and starts thinking about marketing this to LE. I would start with K9 and SWAT. Then make one that looks like a uniform shirt on the front and back for uniform patrol. Ditch the hard plate aspect for this one, trim up the shoulder straps and set it up to work with traditional leather duty gear. This could be a life/carrier saver for some of use.

[BAC]

I'll get one jocked up and some pictures taken. As a plate carrier, it currently holds plate backers, but there are plans for some other innovations in the future.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that would be curious to see this.


-B