View Full Version : Remington to Sell Civilian ACR Rifle in Early 2010
http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2009/10/18/remington-to-sell-civilian-acr-rifle-in-early-2010/
From Accurate Shooter:
Remington to Sell Civilian ACR Rifle in Early 2010
Filed under: News, ▫Articles — Tags: ACR, AR15 Replacement, Bushmaster, Magpul, Masada, Remington — Editor @ 8 am
This past week, Remington held a new products seminar in Kerrville, TX. While Remington tried to impose a “news embargo” through November 15, details leaked out about many of Remington’s new guns.
Remington Adaptive Combat Rifle ACR
The big news is the planned release of a civilian, semi-auto version of the Adaptive Combat Rifle (ACR). The Guns and Hunting Blog “spilled the beans”, revealing that Remington plans to sell a semi-auto ACR in the civilian market, starting in the first half of 2010. Based on a Magpul prototype, the ACR has been under development for two years, as a collaboration between Bushmaster and Remington. Price for the civilian ACR is expected to be under $2000, considerably less than the FN SCAR, a similar weapon now being tested by the U.S. Military.
Remington Adaptive Combat Rifle ACR
The civilian version of the modular ACR will likely sport a 16.5″, 1:7″ twist barrel standard. Multiple barrel lengths can be fitted (see diagram above), and barrels can be changed without tools. Remarkably the entire gun can be field-stripped down to six major components in under 90 seconds. The ACR features integral rails on top of the receiver and on the forearm. The buttstock adjusts for length and also folds back using a hinge at the rear of the receiver. The charging handle is non-reciprocating. Weight with a 14.5″ barrel (no magazine) is 7 pounds.
Adam Heggenstaller of Guns and Hunting reports: “The consumer version will be offered with a 16.5-inch barrel, but Bushmaster will also be making barrels with lengths of 10.5, 14.5 and 18 inches. The first version of the ACR will be chambered in 5.56×45 mm, of course, but since a tool-less disassembly allows you to change bolt heads, barrels and magazines, the ACR can be user-configured to run with other cartridges as well. Ongoing development will focus on the 6.8 mm Rem. SPC, 7.62×39 mm, a yet-to-be-disclosed 6.5 mm round and the .30 Rem AR.”
I'd be interested if it came out in a decent 6.5 round...real interested!
I'm surprised with Bushmaster's involvement they didn't put a 1/9 barrel on it :p
I look forward to seeing this physically on dealers' shelves.....
Well at least this skirts the whole "I want an ACR but I don't want it if Bushmaster is making it" argument. I for one welcome our polymer overlords.
If you read the linked blog that the accurateshooter article is based off of, it seems that the civilian version is still coming from Bushmaster, not Remington. It also links you to an update on the Bushmaster website, saying that they're trying for a release date in the first half of 2010. Looks like we're still stuck with Bushmaster for the semi-auto version.
In the blog linked from accurateshooter you can also see pictures that the guy snapped of the ACR, and I'm disappointed already (you'll understand when you see the barrel, why can't we get away from the m4 profile, especially on a 16"+ barrel?).
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-19-09, 13:37
As it has been explained to me, Remington has the MIL contacts and resources to sell to the military. I always thought that Bushmaster had a lot of gov business, but I guess not much of it is actual MIL, more LEO?
Am I happy it is a Bushmaster, not really. I may cover up all those snake logos with MAGPUL stickers. I bet if you put $100 bucks a month away, you'll be able to buy one with out the wife knowing ;). Not looking to be a early adopter that gets skinned for an early model.
I'd really like to know how much influence the Magpul guys have had over the continued development. If they just dropped off the Massada TD package and Bushmaster has run with it from there, I'm not that excited.
NinjaMedic
10-19-09, 15:28
Why 16.5"?
Cascades236
10-19-09, 16:59
As bad as I want one (sooner than later obviously,) I'll probably wait for the ACR to see a ton of trigger time by other Joe's who have less patience then I.
Misc Ex-Member
10-19-09, 17:01
As bad as I want one (sooner than later obviously,) I'll probably wait for the ACR to see a ton of trigger time by other Joe's who have less patience then I.
I pretty much agree. As far as they layout of the rifle, I think it is about perfect. I don't see me buying one of the first ones, but if everything shakes out okay after a year or so I will probably buy one.
Failure2Stop
10-19-09, 18:09
Dear Remington/BM,
Make this:
http://www.magpul.com/pics/masada_b4.jpg
and include a few rail sections.
The people that are going to drop the $$ on these guns that know what they are doing will be much more impressed by handling characteristics and "modular modularity" than a thick, short handguard covered in rails that will only get thicker when the needed rail covers are added. In case you have not been following AR trends, handguards longer than the standard CAR type are an advantage when it comes to an aggressive grip, use of supported position, and adding lights and lasers to the gun without compromising grip. The HG setup as illustrated in recent pics of the ACR is really only applicable to barrels in the sub-12.5" area.
The above pic, ergonomic ambi controls, and the ability (at the introduction) to use available AR barrels (http://www.magpul.com/pdfs/masada_technote.pdf pg 10) is what people drove themselves into a frenzy over, not the quest for a SCAR look-alike.
Thanks from a nobody
-F2S
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-19-09, 18:16
Why 16.5"?
It is an interesting number.
Just to make sure that it is at least 16? :rolleyes:
16.5 is the closest tenth measurement to 42mm. Do any of the proposed MIL specs, including allies, mention 42mm?
I'd like a pinned 14.5 non-NFA or a 18 inch. To me 16 is too in the middle.
+1 on the Non-railed handguard option. I wonder if we'll be able to buy spare handguards, and mill off the rails. Is the tri-rail handguard metal or plastic?
I wonder if there will be 'massada' kits for the ACR, just like there are Sig 551/552 kits for 556 rifles.
Thomas M-4
10-19-09, 18:22
Dear Remington/BM,
Make this:
and include a few rail sections.
The people that are going to drop the $$ on these guns that know what they are doing will be much more impressed by handling characteristics and "modular modularity" than a thick, short handguard covered in rails that will only get thicker when the needed rail covers are added. In case you have not been following AR trends, handguards longer than the standard CAR type are an advantage when it comes to an aggressive grip, use of supported position, and adding lights and lasers to the gun without compromising grip. The HG setup as illustrated in recent pics of the ACR is really only applicable to barrels in the sub-12.5" area.
The above pic, ergonomic ambi controls, and the ability (at the introduction) to use available AR barrels (http://www.magpul.com/pdfs/masada_technote.pdf pg 10) is what people drove themselves into a frenzy over, not the quest for a SCAR look-alike.
Thanks from a nobody
-F2S
100% Agree with you Failure2Stop please unfuck the handgaurds they where right to begin with Remington are you listing :rolleyes:
geminidglocker
10-19-09, 18:29
Cool. Now Winchester/Browning need to start making a Civy Tavor or Galil. Marlin Model 1919A4 anyone???? I'm sure Savage could make a decent bolt .50BMG???
As bad as I want one (sooner than later obviously,) I'll probably wait for the ACR to see a ton of trigger time by other Joe's who have less patience then I.
Yeah same here. I want one but will try to wait to hear some feedback from others. I really hope they keep the price at $2K or less.
I bet Magpul could make some handguards for this thing. I'm excited!
Spooky
I bet Magpul could make some handguards for this thing.
How much longer do you want to delay this f-ing thing? We are on what, well over 2 years now?
Cool. Now Winchester/Browning need to start making a Civy Tavor or Galil. Marlin Model 1919A4 anyone???? I'm sure Savage could make a decent bolt .50BMG???
Charles Daly is making a Tavor here in the states. Should be available sometime next year. Check out the following thread: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=38532
Anyways: back on topic.
I'm STILL saving/jonsing for an ACR. One day... Until then, just more time to save.
-Adam
How much longer do you want to delay this f-ing thing? We are on what, well over 2 years now?
Not what I intended... I'm sure they could crank some out after the rifle was released.
Spooky
The latest pictures don't show a railed foreend - they show a more skeletonized tube that you can customize with pieces of rail similar to the VTAC/Troy TRX Extreme design.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k274/DyNo541/DSC00554.jpg
I also thought that MagPul has stated that the MOE type handguard will be available. Here's a link (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=124&t=174298&page=3) to a post by MagPul (see the second post on 6/3/2009) in the MagPul forum on TOS...it says....
"Some things are not shown in the Remington ad.
1. Polymer Handguards (already manufactured)
2. PRS Style Stock (already manufactured)
3. Longer Railed Handguard with top rail extension (already designed and shown on Massoud at SHOT)
4. Longer Polymer Handguard (designed and shown with original concept rifle)"
Magpul already said in BARF.com that they are making the Polymer handguard for it, and if i remember correctly it still uses Ar15 barrels.
Charles Daly is making a Tavor here in the states. Should be available sometime next year. Check out the following thread: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=38532
Anyways: back on topic.
I'm STILL saving/jonsing for an ACR. One day... Until then, just more time to save.
-Adam
Importing the Tavor, not making it. It's still an IMI-made gun.
Still kinda surprised they didn't make the grip interchangeable. Given my poor college student status, the ACR could very easily be my next rifle. :D
-B
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7961/acr07.jpg
I noticed it's marked:
B.F.I. Dallas, GA U.S.A.
Model - ACR
Caliber - Multi
I wonder if the production versions will be marked multi?
The pic is from the AAC blog...
http://www.aacblog.com/?p=5218
rifleman2000
10-20-09, 11:18
http://www.bushmaster.com/acr_update.asp
Bushmaster website.
RAM Engineer
10-20-09, 11:34
I liked the looks/design of the rounder MSR-style handguard that was shown off at the AAC Silencer Shoot. More VTAC looking.
Skintop911
10-20-09, 11:38
Is it me, or are there a lot of screws on that thing?
LonghunterCO
10-20-09, 12:44
I wonder if the production versions will be marked multi?
Ever since the beginning (the Masada Days) it was going to be marked "Mulit".
I'll wait and see how the production one looks, but I'm not a fan of the skeletonized look.
RAM Engineer
10-20-09, 13:18
I'll wait and see how the production one looks, but I'm not a fan of the skeletonized look.
You just used the word "look" twice in reference to a gun...
You just used the word "look" twice in reference to a gun...
Sorry, I guess?
From my experience, skeletonized AR hand guards get awfully hot and just aren't that comfortable to shoot, but I'm not going to knock a particular one until the final product is out and there are reviews on it.
As recently as yesterday on TOS, MagPul posted that the original Masada style handguard will be offered. So it sounds like there will be plenty of options.
"The original handguard is already a production item and will be offered."
(http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=293812&page=1)
Failure2Stop
10-20-09, 22:28
Magpul already said in BARF.com that they are making the Polymer handguard for it, and if i remember correctly it still uses Ar15 barrels.
As recently as yesterday on TOS, MagPul posted that the original Masada style handguard will be offered. So it sounds like there will be plenty of options.
Groovy.
Thanks for the heads-up.
Fellow on Lightfighter, present at this last Silencer Shoot, stated that Remington had an aluminum lower with removable pistol grip too. Man I hope this meets the original $1500 goal...
-B
A LF post from the man himself:
The lower with the grip is designed as the "issue" or "entry level" lower. It was designed to be as simple as possible for rapid manufacturing.
Other lowers with additional features are planned. Remington showed off a metal lower that took AR grips and other polymer lowers will also be available.
Switching lowers is very easy and you can even switch out the fire control group in under a minute thanks to the drop in trigger pack.
-B
Importing the Tavor, not making it. It's still an IMI-made gun.
-B
No, actually CD is making it. Read the first post in the link you quoted. Some of the parts will be imported and some made in the US and CD will be manufacturing the completed rifle.
Back to the ACR
I want one but will probably have to wait a while funds wise... Will be nice to finally get this out the door!
Ah, I missed that line when I first read it. Good catch.
I'll admit to being kinda/pretty excited about it. As I've said, hopefully they can maintain their original price goal. Still in po'-college-student mode. :D
-B
N.Franklin
10-23-09, 00:36
Man I hope this meets the original $1500 goal...
-B
Me too, my wife was pissed when I dropped $3k on the SCAR.
baffle Stack
10-23-09, 23:52
Remington to Sell Civilian ACR Rifle in Early 2010
:rolleyes:
I'll believe it when I see it.
BM...Remington....to me if the price is right I'm buying it no matter what.
baffle Stack
10-24-09, 11:44
Yeah me too, I just don't think it will be in 2010. This thing has been pushed back too many times. I expect more of the same.
is there an estimated price on this? Sorry if it's been posted before, I don't want to wade through all the replies :o
is there an estimated price on this? Sorry if it's been posted before, I don't want to wade through all the replies :o
In the link it says a target of under $2k.
ah, thank you. :)
Welcome
variablebinary
10-26-09, 23:21
I'm much more interested now that Fitz has confirmed an aluminum lower. Either way, I've had my place in line for an ACR reserved for 3 months now.
I'm 3rd in line :D
baffle Stack
10-27-09, 20:41
The lower was changed to aluminum? I thought it was going to be made of composite.
No, actually CD is making it. Read the first post in the link you quoted. Some of the parts will be imported and some made in the US and CD will be manufacturing the completed rifle.
Has to be made in USA. I'm guessing the length is an issue and it would have to be limited to a ten round magazine just like the USC and SL-8 right?
variablebinary
10-27-09, 21:23
Has to be made in USA. I'm guessing the length is an issue and it would have to be limited to a ten round magazine jus like the USC and SL-8 right?
A lot of the Tavor is made in the USA already. We give Israel defense aid, but they need to buy gear made in the USA in return
ACR in DMR form? (ETA: Actually, upon closer inspection, I think this may be the Massoud. Still, neat pic.)
http://hotshots2010.uk.com/images/btsGallery/20%20The%20Props.jpg
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-28-09, 23:24
Does anyone have any concept of which retailers will be getting them? I get on wait lists,and then people are able to spot buy stuff before the wait lists get filled at other retialers.
olds442tyguy
10-28-09, 23:29
The aluminum lower is going to be an option down the road and won't be standard.
variablebinary
11-10-09, 03:27
Just saw a new ad in a gun rag, and the ACR has gone through a few changes.
The rail and gas block are very different than what was shown a few months back
MikeCLeonard
11-10-09, 23:16
Just saw a new ad in a gun rag, and the ACR has gone through a few changes.
The rail and gas block are very different than what was shown a few months back
In what ways? Different than the ACR's on display at this years Silencer Shoot?
HK_Shooter_03
11-11-09, 10:50
The latest pictures don't show a railed foreend - they show a more skeletonized tube that you can customize with pieces of rail similar to the VTAC/Troy TRX Extreme design.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k274/DyNo541/DSC00554.jpg
That picture looks familiar, I was wondering where all of those hits came from!
Here's the video that goes with it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJKGXhAtX28
olds442tyguy
11-11-09, 12:33
What's with that version? It has a skeletonized hand guard with no rails and looks like it has screws instead of the built in barrel wrench. It doesn't even look like Magpul's polymer hand guards would work on it. The latest pre-production Remingtons still have the quick change barrel and real rail system AFAIK too. Or am I just missing something here?
Can anyone from Magpul comment on this thing?
wild_wild_wes
11-11-09, 16:56
What happened to the folding stock?
Why on Earth would anyone not incorporate a folding stock if the design permitted it?
Both folding and fixed stocks will be offered.
olds442tyguy
11-11-09, 17:15
What happened to the folding stock?
Why on Earth would anyone not incorporate a folding stock if the design permitted it?
It will be available, that's just the base model stcok. Cost and strength are the two pluses that come to my mind. Add in AWB states and people who simply don't need a folding or collapsing stock. I like the looks of the ACR's basic stock plenty, but the adjustable LOP and decreased storage space win out for me.
Come to think of it though, I never had any problem running an A2 stock. Or the A2 grip even. You won't find either in my possession though.
There are some new videos up on RemingtonMilitary.com
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/intro
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/caliber-change
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/gas-system
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/stock-functionality
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/cycle-of-operation
variablebinary
12-08-09, 13:11
Interesting look at the internal workings of the ACR
There are some new videos up on RemingtonMilitary.com
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/intro
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/caliber-change
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/gas-system
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/stock-functionality
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/cycle-of-operation
ForTehNguyen
12-08-09, 15:29
really cool, volume of the website caught me off guard tho heh
RogerinTPA
12-08-09, 17:54
I'll wait a year or so until they work the bugs out before I ever think of buying one. ;)
A buddy of mine brought up a point. Is this the first "combat" rifle to be released to civillians first before military? Are there any contracts out for this rifle for LE or military?
variablebinary
12-08-09, 19:17
I'll wait a year or so until they work the bugs out before I ever think of buying one. ;)
It will be interesting to see how a weapon as complex as the ACR will hold up over the long haul. Having every cool kid feature packed into one nifty package is sure to have a negative somewhere.
No doubt it's an exciting product though that brings a lot of energy back to the American arms market.
There are some new videos up on RemingtonMilitary.com
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/intro
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/caliber-change
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/gas-system
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/stock-functionality
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/ACR/acr.htm#/cycle-of-operation
Anyone notice that the gas block is different between the ACR shown at the top of that page, and the one shown in the videos? The one at the top has a bayo lug, and what appears to be a different adjusting mechanism.
ForTehNguyen
12-09-09, 18:26
i think originally you needed a tool to adjust the gas block, the newer one you can just use a 5.56 cartridge to adjust. Maybe that was the change
ForTehNguyen
12-17-09, 22:30
get your drool rags ready. The auction winner for the AAC silencer shooter back in October, just got his ACR, final production model. So hopefully soon
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/18/is-this-the-final-consumer-edition-bushmaster-acr/
he posted on ARF
The Official Masada and Massoud Picture Thread - AR15.COM (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=124&t=162008&page=13)
Here is the weapon overall:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Mohitojj/ACRFull.jpg
Left Side:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Mohitojj/BACR.jpg
Right Side:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Mohitojj/SerialNumber.jpg
The Lower with Fixed Stock:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Mohitojj/Lower1.jpg
The Lower and Fire Control Group:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Mohitojj/Lower3.jpg
Grip:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Mohitojj/Grip.jpg
Stocks:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Mohitojj/Stocks.jpg
Gas Block:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Mohitojj/Piston2.jpg
Under The Rail:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Mohitojj/Upper2.jpg
Gen-4 Rail:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Mohitojj/Rail.jpg
Barrel with Piston Kit:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Mohitojj/Piston4.jpg
Upper with Bolt Group:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Mohitojj/Upper.jpg
:rolleyes:
Probably the single most exciting and anticipated new firearm in years, and they stick with the stupid M4 stepped profile???
I'm a little dissapointed to see the original built in popup front sight disappear in favor of the MBUS, but I guess it makes sense from a manufacturing standpoint.
Pretty exciting though, I'm looking forward to fondling one when they make it out in quantity.
variablebinary
12-18-09, 00:59
Not for nothing, but this version looks hideous compared to previous iterations. That hand guard is atrocious.
I personally would prefer the more traditional HK416 style handguard they were showing up until recently. Without it, I think I will revert to the plastic handguard
And I still want to see the 10" model
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Mohitojj/ACRFull.jpg
http://www.rainierarms.com/img/board/masada-1.jpg
http://www.aacblog.com/wp-content/uploads/acr-header.jpg
Color me confused, but where's the charging handle? Is it the black plastic rectangle next to the ejection port?
DocHolliday01
12-18-09, 01:35
On the top picture that VB posted it is halfway down the rail towards the top.
bondmid003
12-18-09, 01:48
This rifle just keeps looking sweeter, I must have one when I get back from deployment
Did they really put the magazine release on the left side?!?
Being as how ambidexterity of controls is one of the selling points of the ACR, I imagine you'll find that mag release on the right side too.
It's interesting seeing the little design tweeks that have been made along the way. I find that I like the iteration in the third picture of variablebinary's last post the best. I can't tell if it's just the handguard that's different or if they've changed/modified the way the handguard mates with the rifle. The final version seems a bit bulkier, but that may be just an optical illusion (caveat: I think the SCAR looks pretty chunky too).
Not gonna lie, I'm getting excited again about this rifle.
-B
Two things already-the rail needs to be a tad longer, the sling plate should be user configurable(I would only want a left side hook(prefer a QD swivel-I would like the light at 10:00 vs 9 though.
I would loose all of the other rails.
And I would use Troys on it.
ForTehNguyen
12-18-09, 09:00
Color me confused, but where's the charging handle? Is it the black plastic rectangle next to the ejection port?
charging handle is more forward than usual because more rearward charging handles interfere with optic mounts. Above the rail in the first pic I posted. Black rectangle is the brass deflector
Controls are full ambi: selector, mag release, bolt catch/release. Biggest thing is the bolt/catch release acts like a Magpul BAD on AR15s, where you engage it from your firing hand's index finger. You can move the charging handle to the other side if you are a leftie also
shooter521
12-18-09, 09:14
Did they really put the magazine release on the left side?!?
Ambi; should be on both sides.
ForTehNguyen
12-18-09, 09:28
Did they really put the magazine release on the left side?!?
most of the black pics were shots of the left side, heres the right side: it is truly full ambi
http://www.aacblog.com/wp-content/uploads/acr-header.jpg
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-18-09, 09:29
Two things already-the rail needs to be a tad longer, the sling plate should be user configurable(I would only want a left side hook(prefer a QD swivel-I would like the light at 10:00 vs 9 though.
I would loose all of the other rails.
And I would use Troys on it.
The rifle looks right with a 10.5 inch barrel, OK with a 14.5, odd with a 16in like here. It would look positively weird if that is the hand guard for the 20in rifle. Really just aesthetics, but aren't they going to have a longer rail?
It is starting to look like it was designed by committee?
I heard a story about how when KFC got big there was a meeting about how to improve the mashed potatoes. The Col was there and at every break in the conversation he would say from teh back of the room "Don't mess with the potatoes", and the conversation would continue. Finally he said, "Don't fuck with the potatoes, or else I'll go to the press and tell everyone that you guys are ruining the food."
I think Magpul should have told Rem/Bushy, "Don't fuck with the potatoes".
bnanaphone
12-18-09, 09:49
Now that is just the fix I needed! The rifle is looking great, except for the handguard with rails everywhere. I liked the original HG like in Variablebinary's second pic from Rainier Arms. One thing I didn't realize was the ability to remove the fire control group as a separate unit, nice.
I have to agree with some previous posts that the 10.5" model looks the most appropriate. I think my OBR fund just turned into a "BACR" fund.
Masada #1 back in March of 2008.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/M4%20Carbine%20Mod%20Class%203-10-08/Masadaresized.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/M4%20Carbine%20Mod%20Class%203-10-08/Robb2.jpg
-the rail needs to be a tad longer,
I agree. I would like to see the rails cover the gasblock on the 14.5" & 16" barrels. They could leave just enough room for disassembly like on the 10.5" barrels.
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4679/acr04.jpg
Not sure I like the G3-like forward position of the charging handle......and I pray that it does not reciprocate like the SCAR. I really want to like the SCAR, but the charging handle is a big turnoff.
My other concern is the barrel lockup. With these short receiver floating barrel designs, you're going to have more stress on the barrel as you bump it around. I know that Magpul prided itself in how you do not need tools to remove the barrel.....but exactly how strong is the lockup? Frankly, I don't want a quick release barrel on a floating barrel design with a short receiver. A great thing about an AK or AR is the strength of the barrel lockup which was a result of strength needed to attach a bayonett. Anyone who's used their rifle in a fight knows just how much your bang it around as your on the move especially in the city.
I agree. I would like to see the rails cover the gasblock on the 14.5" & 16" barrels. They could leave just enough room for disassembly like on the 10.5" barrels.
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4679/acr04.jpg
I'm sure that they left it open to improve cooling of the gas block. Probably why they have the circular cuts on the new design which increases surface area and act as a heat sink.
ForTehNguyen
12-18-09, 10:30
Possibly the rails are optional over the regular handguard. Since its so modular you can just swap out handguard or skeleton rail system.
Not sure I like the G3-like forward position of the charging handle......and I pray that it does not reciprocate like the SCAR. I really want to like the SCAR, but the charging handle is a big turnoff.
ACR's charging handle is non-reciprocating.
-B
ACR's charging handle is non-reciprocating.
-B
ACR 1
SCAR 0
:D
I am very EXCITED about this and am looking forward to the release.
ForTehNguyen
12-18-09, 12:34
I agree. I would like to see the rails cover the gasblock on the 14.5" & 16" barrels. They could leave just enough room for disassembly like on the 10.5" barrels.
You wouldnt want to cover up where the gas has to ventilate after it actuates the piston system. Venting under a handguard is very bad.
Skintop911
12-18-09, 13:21
What's the sight height over bore?
ForTehNguyen
12-18-09, 14:09
more updates from the AAC auction winner:
Advanced Armament Corp. Happy Happy Joy Joy (http://www.aacblog.com/?p=5489)
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/18/bushmaster-acr-photos/
Jesse says ...
Mid length gas system, 16" barrel, m4 profile, AAC break for m42000 Can. New ratchet and lock design.
Gen-4 Rail system with removable pic rail sections. Rail moves a little in rear if twisted. (See Shoot Photos)
Came with both the new style folder with spring lock and the fixed stock.
New style gas block, no bayo lug,
Gun is Black.
All kinds of Q/D options on both sides of the rifle.
Charging handle can be flipped left or right, up or down.
Great fit and function, and is very easy to figure out. Rear upper pin hangs slightly when in out position.
Trigger is 100% better than SCAR and is very crisp. (Looks to be a standard AR style, might be wrong though)
bnanaphone
12-18-09, 14:44
Masada #1 back in March of 2008.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/M4%20Carbine%20Mod%20Class%203-10-08/Masadaresized.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/M4%20Carbine%20Mod%20Class%203-10-08/Robb2.jpg
Templar, what did you think of the MASADA when you shot it? Just curious of handling characteristics from that to a typical 16" M4 that we are use to. I am still 95% sure I am getting one in xxx months.
On the top picture that VB posted it is halfway down the rail towards the top.
Ah, right on, I see it now. I expected a larger handle (and for it to be somewhat further rearward).
Between this and the newly imported MKE MP5 clones, it's going to be an expensive year.
FPembleton
12-19-09, 12:12
Wonder if that plastic foregrip will be an option with the gun when it hits the market. It looks a lot more manageable on a 16" barrel with that than that tiny regular rail.
MikeCLeonard
12-19-09, 18:16
Magpul has said that the plastic handguard will be an aftermarket option.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-20-09, 11:27
So, if you buy a 16 inch model and then want to SBR it, where would you do the engraving? What is the legal reciever - plastic or metal?
decodeddiesel
12-20-09, 11:30
So, if you buy a 16 inch model and then want to SBR it, where would you do the engraving? What is the legal reciever - plastic or metal?
It would be on the aluminum upper. This is where the SN, Model, and Caliber markings are.
Templar, what did you think of the MASADA when you shot it? Just curious of handling characteristics from that to a typical 16" M4 that we are use to. I am still 95% sure I am getting one in xxx months.
I was favorably impressed. I come from a background of using a lot of different systems, not just AR's, so I feel like I have a bit of a more open mind when looking at systems like the Masada/ACR and FN SCAR.
The rifle we had at the class was the first prototype, and had seen many, many thousands of rounds down range.
I hope that Bushmaster can manufacture these things with the quality that they deserve.
I was favorably impressed. I come from a background of using a lot of different systems, not just AR's, so I feel like I have a bit of a more open mind when looking at systems like the Masada/ACR and FN SCAR.
Did you like the ACR or SCAR better?
Did you like the ACR or SCAR better?
I can't answer that fairly.
I shot the Masada prototype #1, which as I said, had many, many thousands of rounds down range and was on it's 3rd. barrel.
It was also a prototype, and as such, was expected to have issues that were to be ironed out in later models. The cocking handle was a big one......it's great as long as you don't have an optic mounted, but if you do, it was hard to get to without barking your knuckles on the optic, which is why on later variants, the cocking handle had been moved up to the HK G3 position.
The SCAR's that I've shot have all be production pieces, a fully matured system.
If this sounds like a cop out, it's not. I honestly do like both systems and think that both offer a lot to shooters and professional trigger pullers.
I hope that Remington/Bushmaster can deliver the ACR with the quality it deserves.
LonghunterCO
12-20-09, 14:33
I am still very interested in the ACR, a few receint posts, on TOS (so that that for what that's worth) about a substantial price increase have tempered that somewhat. I am still hopfull that it is going to be comming to market, and that the price is in the orgionally quoted price range. Just waiting on the word.
With all of the redesigns I can't say I'd be especially surprised if the price went up a little. Still, if they can keep it under $2k and as Templar said build it with the quality it deserves then the ACR will be a winner. I would very much like to see the ACR with a longer handguard (I have long arms and I'm greedy), but as I would most likely be buying the ACR as an SBR it's not so critical an issue for me.
Unrelated, but the gun rocks on Modern Warfare 2. :p
-B
Can I play too? From March of this year.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/MAP1911/DSC_4556.jpg
baffle Stack
12-20-09, 20:29
308, Nice!
ForTehNguyen
12-20-09, 21:18
yea thats the prototype of the .308 version
Can I play too? From March of this year.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/MAP1911/DSC_4556.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Funny%20stuff/coffee.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Funny%20stuff/thumbs_up.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20M4%20Mod-Staff%20Class%206-8%20March%2009/TD2/P1020002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20M4%20Mod-Staff%20Class%206-8%20March%2009/TD2/P1020001.jpg
That rifle has had a hard life. It's at about 11k rounds now, but was cleaned for the first time at about 10,300. The first 3 inches or so of rifling are pretty much gone, but it still held about 2.5moa average groups in a recent test!
ForTehNguyen
12-21-09, 12:53
nice to hear your comments
LonghunterCO
12-21-09, 13:10
That rifle has had a hard life. It's at about 11k rounds now, but was cleaned for the first time at about 10,300. The first 3 inches or so of rifling are pretty much gone, but it still held about 2.5moa average groups in a recent test!
You need to bring one of these to the Magpul Dynam. Carbine class in Pubelo Colorado next year (specifically the September class ;))
ForTehNguyen
12-22-09, 08:55
I wonder if they will still do the precision stock they had from a while back. Would be nice with the 18" barrel
rubberneck
12-22-09, 10:15
I really wish the production versions would come with that forearm. I'd rather bolt rails where I want them. Not that it matters much as I'll probably end up buying one rails or no rails.
ForTehNguyen
12-22-09, 11:41
the regular one has the skeletonized looking handguard where you add rails where you wish. The plastic handguard is an aftermarket part from Magpul while will go over the skeleton rail
LonghunterCO
12-22-09, 13:18
the regular one has the skeletonized looking handguard where you add rails where you wish. The plastic handguard is an aftermarket part from Magpul while will go over the skeleton rail
Where did you hear that? I have only ever heard that the regular handguards were going to be standard with the railed handguard as an option
I certainly hope the plastic will be the standard on at least one of the production models.
ForTehNguyen
12-22-09, 16:32
Where did you hear that? I have only ever heard that the regular handguards were going to be standard with the railed handguard as an option
sorry I misinterpreted the post below as it was aftermarket. They are producing additional length foreends as options, not making the handguard an option. My bad
http://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=520809&postcount=29
oddily enough theres another ACR thread running around in this section:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=42658
I'd buy something like the 7.62 version shown above, seeing as it will be (much) more affordable than an SR-25. As far as a carbine, I'm not seeing too much of an advantage to these designs besides a piston. Ambi controls are meh, I'm not ambidextrous. I think I would be more inclined to go with the LWRC.
I also think the Remington/Bushmaster version is UGLY!
What claim of MOA for the ACR 5.56 version. I asked years ago never got a answer.
FPembleton
12-28-09, 14:26
What claim of MOA for the ACR 5.56 version. I asked years ago never got a answer.
From what I gathered, it's not a cold hammer forged barrel but no one has confirmed this for certain.
What claim of MOA for the ACR 5.56 version. I asked years ago never got a answer.
And that is what I'm gonna need to know before I buy. If it can't beat my Arsenal AK I don't see a reason to buy it.
variablebinary
12-29-09, 04:58
From what I gathered, it's not a cold hammer forged barrel but no one has confirmed this for certain.
What does that matter?
What does that matter?
It is all the new rage! Seriously, most people with normal budgets and shooting abilities would never know the difference!
Spooky
Can I order one while at the SHOT show 2010 Las Vegas? :)
No Bananas
01-02-10, 23:30
What aluminum is used for the gun? (6061 like the SCAR or 7075 like the AR?)?
decodeddiesel
01-03-10, 00:07
What aluminum is used for the gun? (6061 like the SCAR or 7075 like the AR?)?
I hope to hell it's not 6061. I still can't believe FN did that.
variablebinary
01-03-10, 03:04
I hope to hell it's not 6061. I still can't believe FN did that.
I hope you have a doctorate in metallurgy and engineering, and extensive firsthand experience and knowledge of SCAR lab testing and field testing, because at least then you can explain to me why a low stress extrusion on the SCAR sucks because it is 6061.
I don't know even know if that is true or not. I do however look forward to you explanation
decodeddiesel
01-03-10, 06:57
I hope you have a doctorate in metallurgy and engineering, and extensive firsthand experience and knowledge of SCAR lab testing and field testing, because at least then you can explain to me why a low stress extrusion on the SCAR sucks because it is 6061.
I don't know even know if that is true or not. I do however look forward to you explanation
OK, I will answer your question. But, before I do, maybe you should take a step back and look at your post here. Clearly you have some emotional and financial investment in this platform, and your quick little "call out" shows it.
Now do I have a PhD in mettalurgy? Nope. However I really don't feel as though one needs a Ph.D to reference something like Matweb and can clearly see that there is a discrepancy in the characteristics between 6061 and 7075 when it comes to things like hardness, chip resistance, crack resistance, yield strength, etc. In all of these areas 6061 is inferior to 7075. There's a reason why 7075 is so much more expensive than 6061.
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA6061T6
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA7075T73
Now I fully admit I am not an engineer at FN, and therefor have not obviously been directly involved with the development of the weapon, but from my perspective it seems like a poor choice to have used 6061 as opposed to 7075 for the receiver extrusion.
As far as your attempt somehow "call me out" on my personal credentials, I have taken numerous material classes from an accredited university in the past year or two while pursuing my degree in mechanical engineering. So yes I feel as though I have the formal education to comment on what is in my opinion was a poor material choice. Furthermore I work with 6061 and 7075 (as well as numerous other alloys of aluminum) nearly daily at my job and know a thing or two about the particular metallurgy of these 2 alloys. Regardless of what I say or do, multiple co-workers of mine, including one who previously worked at the small arms division of Crane and another who worked at Picatinny, do have advanced degrees in mechanical and chemical engineering. They and I work here http://www.ara.com. Both have worked on, or seen "insider" data on the Mk. 16 SCAR program, and when asked both have commented that the materials used were less than optimal and they had no idea why FN made the decision.
So now I ask, what's your formal education and peer information which makes you so sure 6061 is OK for use in this application? ;)
variablebinary
01-03-10, 09:09
OK, I will answer your question. But, before I do, maybe you should take a step back and look at your post here. Clearly you have some emotional and financial investment in this platform, and your quick little "call out" shows it.
Now do I have a PhD in mettalurgy? Nope. However I really don't feel as though one needs a Ph.D to reference something like Matweb and can clearly see that there is a discrepancy in the characteristics between 6061 and 7075 when it comes to things like hardness, chip resistance, crack resistance, yield strength, etc. In all of these areas 6061 is inferior to 7075. There's a reason why 7075 is so much more expensive than 6061.
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA6061T6
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA7075T73
Now I fully admit I am not an engineer at FN, and therefor have not obviously been directly involved with the development of the weapon, but from my perspective it seems like a poor choice to have used 6061 as opposed to 7075 for the receiver extrusion.
As far as your attempt somehow "call me out" on my personal credentials, I have taken numerous material classes from an accredited university in the past year or two while pursuing my degree in mechanical engineering. So yes I feel as though I have the formal education to comment on what is in my opinion was a poor material choice. Furthermore I work with 6061 and 7075 (as well as numerous other alloys of aluminum) nearly daily at my job and know a thing or two about the particular metallurgy of these 2 alloys. Regardless of what I say or do, multiple co-workers of mine, including one who previously worked at the small arms division of Crane and another who worked at Picatinny, do have advanced degrees in mechanical and chemical engineering. They and I work here http://www.ara.com. Both have worked on, or seen "insider" data on the Mk. 16 SCAR program, and when asked both have commented that the materials used were less than optimal and they had no idea why FN made the decision.
So now I ask, what's your formal education and peer information which makes you so sure 6061 is OK for use in this application? ;)
Thanks for writing all this.
Though, that doesn't quite answer the presented question. As nice as it is to discuss the merit of 6061 vs 7075, we are talking about the SCAR as a complete product, not blocks of raw alloy materials. There is a difference
So if I ask why using 6061 is a bad idea, the answer I am looking for is "SCAR's explode, crack, exhibit premature wear patterns, or are generally proven unfit for duty due to poor performance in theater reported by unit X and program administrators at SOCOM due to the use of 6061 aluminum in the upper extrusion."
Though, we do have two FN reps that post here who are probably well qualified to comment on such things.
And you should read some of my past posts more. You'd see I am not really financially invested in the SCAR because I got it for couple of hundred bucks out of pocket, and I'm not especially bowled over by it either due to the lack of spare parts or barrel options. I'll probably sell it to fund an ACR IF the ACR has better support in place.
ForTehNguyen
01-03-10, 09:31
says "7000 series aluminum" Is there a possibility there is another alloy besides 7025 they would use? It would make sense to use 7025 obviously since thats what ARs are made of and all these companies have the most experience with that alloy.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Picture-18-15.png
decodeddiesel
01-03-10, 10:18
Thanks for writing all this.
Though, that doesn't quite answer the presented question. As nice as it is to discuss the merit of 6061 vs 7075, we are talking about the SCAR as a complete product, not blocks of raw alloy materials. There is a difference
So if I ask why using 6061 is a bad idea, the answer I am looking for is "SCAR's explode, crack, exhibit premature wear patterns, or are generally proven unfit for duty due to poor performance in theater reported by unit X and program administrators at SOCOM due to the use of 6061 aluminum in the upper extrusion."
As stated I am not an engineer at FN and therefore do not have specific knowledge of potential failures of the weapon. Maybe it works just fine with 6061, but to me it seems more like a "design committee" decision to keep the bottom line down. I can comment as to potential issues with the aluminum though.
From a metallurgy standpoint potential problems arising from the use of 6061 are a lack of hardness of the material to avoid deformation, work hardening of the metal which alters the crystalline structure of the metal making it more susceptible to premature cracking, and heat cycling of the metal which would cause it to loose temper and fail in a number of ways. These are well noted deficiencies in 6061 which the use of 7000 series aluminum addresses.
Though, we do have two FN reps that post here who are probably well qualified to comment on such things.
Come one Dude, here you are looking for my Ph.D comment on the metallurgical qualities of the alloy used, yet somehow a sales rep is excluded from requiring such knowledge? I enjoy reading both of the FN reps take on things here at M4C and I am glad they are part of the community, but unless it came from the mouth of a senior engineer at FN I am going to take it at face value (which is it came from a sales rep).
And you should read some of past posts more. You'd see I am not really financially invested in the SCAR because I got it for couple of hundred bucks out of pocket, and I'm not especially bowled over by it either due to the lack of spare parts or barrel options
I'll freely admit, nor am I.
I had a good deal of cash saved up (for a Masada) and a rifle ready to go away in trade to buy a SCAR a few months ago. When it came in and I handled it I was really disappointed. It just felt cheap to me. The anodizing was blotchy and the white numbering was a so poorly applied it was almost laughable, the trigger was horrendous (and this is coming from a guy with extensive experience with the Colt 3 round burst triggers in M4s), and it just seemed to be thrown together from parts in a reject bin. Also as you mentioned the virtual impossibility to SBR the rifle really turned me off.
I'm done here. I'll admit I do not know if the use of 6061 will cause issues, but the engineer in me thinks it is a compromise which FN should not have made in a weapon with a $2200++ price tag.
variablebinary
01-03-10, 11:28
I had a good deal of cash saved up (for a Masada) and a rifle ready to go away in trade to buy a SCAR a few months ago. When it came in and I handled it I was really disappointed. It just felt cheap to me. The anodizing was blotchy and the white numbering was a so poorly applied it was almost laughable, the trigger was horrendous (and this is coming from a guy with extensive experience with the Colt 3 round burst triggers in M4s), and it just seemed to be thrown together from parts in a reject bin. Also as you mentioned the virtual impossibility to SBR the rifle really turned me off.
.
I agree with quite a few of your points. I dont think the SCAR feels cheap, I do however think the anodizing job is on the weak side. I've got wear marks already and its only been to range a couple of times. The trigger is a touch nasty, but I am hoping it breaks in and lightens up. It's not as bad as the Gen1 XCR trigger though. I think its bizarre that FN used some funky spec pistol grip making it a pain to use other grips. Really?
Overall, I think its a good gun. Not a $2500 gun, but a good gun.
Really though, for me my biggest beef is the lack of factory SBR barrels. I wrote FN about it and their response was basically "No, you are a civilian."
At any rate, I will be holding on to my SCAR until I see if the ACR and MR556 are supported any better. I know I can get HK416 spares already, but will there be SBR uppers/barrels. FWIW, I don't think Bushmaster will be stupid enough to not sell spares or SBR barrels.
snakedoctor
01-03-10, 16:58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLy3xABAsEc
Found on a disk at the airport? Smells like Remington viral marketing to me.. ;)
Oh well, ACR vid is ACR vid, who cares about the story behind it. Nice find.
LonghunterCO
01-03-10, 18:21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLy3xABAsEc
Very Cool. Thanks for sharing.
Misc Ex-Member
01-03-10, 18:28
Found on a disk at the airport? Smells like Remington viral marketing to me.. ;)
Good call.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-03-10, 20:12
deleting info---
I have run literatly tens of thousands of fluid dynamics tests of EtOH/H2O blends thru extruded 355mL 6061 alloy containers - in various meteorlogical conditions from sub-freezing/high altitude to over-the-beach operations. You could say, and former significant others have, that it is my life's work.
In my vast research I have found that at a BAC of over 0.15 and a container speed approaching 3m/s, 355mL extruded containers, recently evacuated of their contents, will catastophically loose structural integrity when impacted on a cranium.
:p
thopkins22
01-03-10, 20:47
Not that I believe it matters, but there was a post from someone at Magpul a long time ago either here or in one of the hundred page long threads on AR15.com where they addressed the metal issue.
It was stated that the shape FN decided on was theoretically stronger, but somehow wouldn't work out with 7075. The shape Magpul settled on was not as strong, but could use the stronger material.
I believe that the post inferred that it was six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Is this the first "combat" rifle to be released to civillians first before military? Are there any contracts out for this rifle for LE or military? Not testing purposes, but actual issue field use.
variablebinary
01-04-10, 00:59
Is this the first "combat" rifle to be released to civillians first before military? Are there any contracts out for this rifle for LE or military? Not testing purposes, but actual issue field use.
Yeah, just like LWRC. Just ask their marketing dept ;)
clickclack
01-04-10, 06:39
does anyone know the weight of the 16
Yeah, just like LWRC. Just ask their marketing dept ;)
I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets a kick out of that. Damn they've got a following online!
No Bananas
01-04-10, 19:44
So, is the civilian version going to be called Remington ACR or the Bushmaster:mad: ACR?
The trigger is a touch nasty, but I am hoping it breaks in and lightens up. It's not as bad as the Gen1 XCR trigger though.
I've got a first generation XCR with several thousand rounds through it. Which trigger are you using?
variablebinary
01-04-10, 22:12
I've got a first generation XCR with several thousand rounds through it. Which trigger are you using?
Gen2 Enhanced. Much nicer! Reminds me of the LMT 2 stage.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-04-10, 23:26
So, is the civilian version going to be called Remington ACR or the Bushmaster:mad: ACR?
My understanding is that the civy version will be sold by Bushmaster, while Remington will take the Mil side. I think it was Drake that said that Remington is already selling rifles (700 series based sniper rifles) to the military, so they are an established supplier.
We get the dumb-ass garter snake logo version.
I don't know who will handle LEO stuff.
baffle Stack
01-04-10, 23:37
Good call.
Yep, Magpul marketing is top notch and this is surely viral. Seems a little sub par for Magpul actually, I mean shit they got their gun in the absolute biggest videogame of '09. That alone earned them thousands of potential customers. From a marketing standpoint it was a brilliant move. kinda gay but brilliant none the less. However it still doesn't make up for that fact that this has seen numerous delays and I still cant buy one. Say what you will about the SCAR's inferior alloy, the fact is that i can buy one today and it has had extensive testing by Army Rangers. That alone makes a world of difference. That is real, tangible data being collected by real end users. So far all Magpul has is some DVDs, youtube vids, and "select customers" to tout their gun, until I can buy one I will reserve judgment. All that said I am pretty exited to hear what will be revealed at SHOT. If it isn't a release date I will be disappointed.
ForTehNguyen
01-05-10, 08:49
a bunch of call of duty 12 year olds don't have the money for an ACR anyways. They couldn't care less, much less even fired a real firearm
Yep, Magpul marketing is top notch and this is surely viral. Seems a little sub par for Magpul actually, I mean shit they got their gun in the absolute biggest videogame of '09. That alone earned them thousands of potential customers. From a marketing standpoint it was a brilliant move. kinda gay but brilliant none the less. However it still doesn't make up for that fact that this has seen numerous delays and I still cant buy one. Say what you will about the SCAR's inferior alloy, the fact is that i can buy one today and it has had extensive testing by Army Rangers. That alone makes a world of difference. That is real, tangible data being collected by real end users. So far all Magpul has is some DVDs, youtube vids, and "select customers" to tout their gun, until I can buy one I will reserve judgment. All that said I am pretty exited to hear what will be revealed at SHOT. If it isn't a release date I will be disappointed.
Didn't notice that, my 12 yo son runs the SCAR H and kicks ass with it.
a bunch of call of duty 12 year olds don't have the money for an ACR anyways. They couldn't care less, much less even fired a real firearm
But dad's do and teach the 12 yo to shoot them---
ForTehNguyen
01-05-10, 15:47
But dad's do and teach the 12 yo to shoot them---
youre a nice exception ;) For the most part though, some of the people I see online are /facepalm when it comes to knowing about guns vs. shooting in a game.
baffle Stack
01-10-10, 21:09
a bunch of call of duty 12 year olds don't have the money for an ACR anyways. They couldn't care less, much less even fired a real firearm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEb07RLtkUI
Pie tins will never be safe from this guy lol.
Seems Magpul doesn't need to sell them a real gun to make coin. There are a ton these vids on youtube and lots of them make refrence to MW2:p
Cascades236
01-10-10, 23:06
Wow airsofters are dorks..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEb07RLtkUI
Pie tins will never be safe from this guy lol.
Seems Magpul doesn't need to sell them a real gun to make coin. There are a ton these vids on youtube and lots of them make refrence to MW2:p
Hahaha. "As you can see, this one has a really nice, uh, holographic sticker right here."
I had to turn it off after that.
I hope you have a doctorate in metallurgy and engineering, and extensive firsthand experience and knowledge of SCAR lab testing and field testing, because at least then you can explain to me why a low stress extrusion on the SCAR sucks because it is 6061.
I don't know even know if that is true or not. I do however look forward to you explanation
You know Model 601, 602 and early 603 and 604 rifles were made from 6061, right? Then the military found out in the jungles of Vietnam that 6061 corroded in those conditions so in 1967 Colt switched to 7075.
The more you know. ;)
http://www.bushmaster.com/acr/
http://www.bushmaster.com/acr/
That page seem to hint on it being released at SHOT.
O
Sierrahotel83
01-13-10, 23:16
that is what I thought as well
:D
Still no answer as to the accuracy of the ACR? This question has been ignored for 2yrs. now. Unless i missed it.
FPembleton
03-24-10, 18:01
Still no answer as to the accuracy of the ACR? This question has been ignored for 2yrs. now. Unless i missed it.
I think pretty much everyone stopped caring about such details after SHOT.
No Bananas
03-24-10, 18:25
The ACR/Massada is still vaporware. Have any even been shipped?
Still no answer as to the accuracy of the ACR? This question has been ignored for 2yrs. now. Unless i missed it.
The pre-production one I fired 2 years ago seemed to have acceptable accuracy, it was comparable to my M4 out to about 100 yards...
B
ForTehNguyen
03-25-10, 10:03
they delayed Basic to April release I believe
No Bananas
03-25-10, 10:52
After all the controversey they miss the release date? Will it really be April? I think the best term for the ACR = CLUSTERFAIL
If Magpul ever tries to make a firearm again, I guarantee you they won't be licensing it out to Bushmaster. Not sure how many other companies are as good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...
-B
they delayed Basic to April release I believe
Nope. Vendors are showing the Basic in stock right now:
http://www.pkfirearms.com/without_options/new/1621
You can also find much more expensive ones on GunBroker. :rolleyes:
After all the controversey they miss the release date? Will it really be April? I think the best term for the ACR = CLUSTERFAIL
Actually, Cold War Shooters has at least one right now. They posted pictures of it on Calguns.net under the Centerfire Rifle section.
Hahaha. "As you can see, this one has a really nice, uh, holographic sticker right here."
I had to turn it off after that.
That's about how far I got too. But the music while he was shooting the pie tin was truly awe inspiring.
baffle Stack
03-27-10, 18:10
Hey it actually available, cool. I can't afford one but if I could I would post pics and write a review here hint hint.
Nope. Vendors are showing the Basic in stock right now:
http://www.pkfirearms.com/without_options/new/1621
You can also find much more expensive ones on GunBroker. :rolleyes:
Glad to see it finally available, I suppose.
But I still have zero interest at $2400. I would have been all over it like a fat girl on a twinkie, if it had come in at $1500 with the folder.
And that fucking m203 cutout on the barrel is just retarded. It screams of "We're going to produce what an internal focus group thinks we can sell, rather than what the best possible configuration is". So bushmaster can cram their "We took the time to make the world's finest firearm" and stick it where the sun don't shine.
Yep the price is a deal killer! Plus I have always hated that stupid cut out/M203 on regular AR's! I still don't understand why they still do that. :rolleyes:
Iraq Ninja
03-28-10, 15:08
I should have an ACR waiting for me next month when I get home on leave. I plan on abusing it for a few weeks and will report back here. If anyone in Houston wants to shoot it, just let me know. Will also have an AAC SPR/M4 suppressor for it...
I should have an ACR waiting for me next month when I get home on leave. I plan on abusing it for a few weeks and will report back here. If anyone in Houston wants to shoot it, just let me know. Will also have an AAC SPR/M4 suppressor for it...
Too bad I don't live closer. :D
CleverNickname
03-28-10, 17:18
If anyone in Houston wants to shoot it, just let me know.
I'll take you up on that.
If anyone in Houston wants to shoot it, just let me know. Will also have an AAC SPR/M4 suppressor for it...
I'll also take you up on that offer. Just let me know when and were and I'll be there with mags and ammo. :D
ForTehNguyen
03-29-10, 09:51
I should have an ACR waiting for me next month when I get home on leave. I plan on abusing it for a few weeks and will report back here. If anyone in Houston wants to shoot it, just let me know. Will also have an AAC SPR/M4 suppressor for it...
I would love to take you up on that offer.
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/guns-and-weapons/sneak-peek-bushmaster-acr/?hp=exclusives_title
I think this issue would show up around May or so, its a bimonthly magazine. The May 2010 issue is out now, I saw it at Barnes and Nobles.
Sneak Peek: Bushmaster ACR
Written by Richard Mann. Author Archive »
Look for the full test of Bushmaster's all-new ACR in the July 2010 issue of Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement.
The ACR is a very intuitive design with operator friendly controls but is it reliable?
Put away your XBox. Call of Duty’s Modern Warfare game is no longer the only way you can shoot a Bushmaster ACR. Bushmaster Basic and Enhanced ACRs are shipping to dealers now.
Does the ACR live up to the hype? Does its versatility make it a replacement for several of the ARs in your battery? We put an Enhanced version of the ACR through an extensive test–looking inside, testing for accuracy with ten different loads and running it through combat-style drills—all in an effort to learn why it has been one of the most anticipated weapon systems to date. Check out the July 2010 issue of Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement magazine to learn more about this multi-configurable, switch-barrel, switch-caliber piston driven carbine.
The long awaited Bushmaster ACR is finally here.
The charging handle on the ACR is designed to be operated by the support hand. But what if you’re left handed? Read the story to find out.
The ACR has many desirable features but are they compatible with tactical employment? Read the article to find out what the author has to say.
ForTehNguyen
03-29-10, 09:56
Glad to see it finally available, I suppose.
But I still have zero interest at $2400. I would have been all over it like a fat girl on a twinkie, if it had come in at $1500 with the folder.
And that fucking m203 cutout on the barrel is just retarded. It screams of "We're going to produce what an internal focus group thinks we can sell, rather than what the best possible configuration is". So bushmaster can cram their "We took the time to make the world's finest firearm" and stick it where the sun don't shine.
buds gun shop prices the basic at $2048, and enhanced at $2331. Lowest I've seen, hard to get stuff at Buds sometimes tho
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=bushmaster+ACR&x=0&y=0
heck sign me up too, I'd love to shoot one, I'll even bring my own ammo :p
I-Ninja,
Did you buy a Bushmaster ACR?
I should have an ACR waiting for me next month when I get home on leave. I plan on abusing it for a few weeks and will report back here. If anyone in Houston wants to shoot it, just let me know. Will also have an AAC SPR/M4 suppressor for it...
I-Ninja,
Did you buy a Bushmaster ACR?
It was for research purposes.
Iraq Ninja
03-29-10, 13:13
Yes, I am putting my own money down on a Bushy. I figure once I shoot the heck out of it, I will have some basis by which to judge the product.
I still am very optimistic about the ACR. To me, FAILURE is related to the weapon as a weapon.
I will also try and locate a SCAR so we can do a side by side shoot fest.
I still am very optimistic about the ACR. To me, FAILURE is related to the weapon as a weapon.
Despite my little quip in the last page, I couldn't agree with this statement more.
In fact to be honest, listening to people speak of Bushmaster as though they were among the most vile scum on the earth has become very old. Some timing and possibly pricing mistakes were made, but the reactions are way overdone to me.
Although the Hitler video was spectacular.
Sierrahotel83
03-29-10, 15:20
Sweet good to know Buds will have them in the future maybe I will get to handle one... they are about 30 minutes from me:D
I am considering getting a SCAR myself. I'll be in the 'Stan for quite a bit (or see it looks) so not sure when it's going to happen.
Yes, I am putting my own money down on a Bushy. I figure once I shoot the heck out of it, I will have some basis by which to judge the product.
I still am very optimistic about the ACR. To me, FAILURE is related to the weapon as a weapon.
I will also try and locate a SCAR so we can do a side by side shoot fest.
Yes, I am putting my own money down on a Bushy. I figure once I shoot the heck out of it, I will have some basis by which to judge the product.
What I think is overly funny is that people would buy it if it had the Remington name on it. But they won't because it says Bushmaster on it.
Even though the Remington ACR and the Bushmaster ACR are both made in the same factory on the same line using mostly the same parts (FCG is different, rails and stuff may be different depending on config). The factory is NOT a Bushmaster factory where they make ARs. Bushmaster is the marketing name applied to the civilian ACR.
ForTehNguyen
03-31-10, 16:54
AIM Surplus has it for $2399
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1BMACRBB
https://www.aimsurplus.com/EOS/images/product/f1bmacrbb.jpg
https://www.aimsurplus.com/EOS/images/product/f1bmacrbb1.jpg
ForTehNguyen
03-31-10, 17:03
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/03/31/remington-acr-multiple-lower-receivers/
The standard Bushmaster / Remington ACR receiver is made of polymer with a moulded pistol grip. Remington is also offering another lower receiver that can accommodate an AR-15 pistol grip. See the above image. An employee of Remington MPD told me that they also plan on offering a magnesium alloy receiver to select customers. I suspect that Remington would be willing to offer a lower receiver made out of diamond encrusted platinum if a large enough military customer required it! If the Bushmaster ACR sells well, aftermarket lower receivers could bring in a lot of additional revenue. More than a few customers would be willing to hand over fistfuls of cash for a fancy all-metal lower receiver so that they could differentiate themselves from the crowd.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/remington_acr-tfb-tm.jpg
ForTehNguyen
04-01-10, 12:03
georgia gun store showing $2151.76 for Basic:
http://www.georgiagunstore.com/gun_store_products/Sporting_Long_Guns-Bushmaster-BUSHMASTER_ACR_223_165_BLK_30RD.html?search_result
georgia gun store showing $2151.76 for Basic:
http://www.georgiagunstore.com/gun_store_products/Sporting_Long_Guns-Bushmaster-BUSHMASTER_ACR_223_165_BLK_30RD.html?search_result
How do you sell something that you don't even have ? Is it me, or am I missing something here?
ForTehNguyen
04-01-10, 16:57
not sure what you mean, this is showing the price they are going to sell it for. Buds Gun Shop is even lower. Georgia listed the price for the Basic at $2350 a couple weeks ago, now its $2150.
georgia gun store showing $2151.76 for Basic:
http://www.georgiagunstore.com/gun_store_products/Sporting_Long_Guns-Bushmaster-BUSHMASTER_ACR_223_165_BLK_30RD.html?search_result
Showing what ? That they have not guns currently, to sell at that price. That is not clear ?:rolleyes:
Has Bushmaster even contracted this out to anyone yet? Or at least Military testing? At least the Scar is issued.
Sierrahotel83
04-01-10, 22:35
It wasn't nessacarily built for military usage.... and I think it had the shit tested out of it by Magpul before they were put in production.
ForTehNguyen
04-01-10, 22:36
Showing what ? That they have not guns currently, to sell at that price. That is not clear ?:rolleyes:
and thats the price they will probably going to sell it, not sure what the fuss is about. Midway posts stuff they dont have in stock either: Magpul Iphone cases MOE middy/rifle handguards. etc
Sierrahotel83
04-01-10, 22:42
and thats the price they will probably going to sell it, not sure what the fuss is about. Midway posts stuff they dont have in stock either: Magpul Iphone cases MOE middy/rifle handguards. etc
Yeah I wish people would quit messing with me.... I want that damn iPhone cover:D
It wasn't necessarily built for military usage....
Oh, didn't know that. Then what do they mean by "adaptive combat rifle"?
Sierrahotel83
04-01-10, 23:14
Unless I have my story all jacked up it was designed as a combat rifle but not nessacarily with any particular entity... Also I think they should have stuck with Magpuls name Masada:cool:
Shooters of Columbus had one on the shelf this morning when I went in. Heavier than I expected. They wanted $2999 for it I think. Overall was not impressed but the integrated bad level was kinda cool....
Why does everyone blame shrubmaster for this fiasco? Seems to me magpul has screwed this up from the get go, they only had bushy/remy build the metal parts of this gun, assemble and distribute it. The metal receiver may say BM or REMY on it, but magpul is making the plastic parts. Every pic of the ACR has magpul logos stamped in the buttstock, lower, plastic handguards, sights and the mag. If Bushmaster and Remington has final say so on this rifle then why are they putting someone elses logo on there gun, I wouldn't do it!
Its priced to hi because
1. They have to buy those expensive plastic magpul parts.
2. They have to pay royaltys to magpul for every gun sold.
3. They have to price it around the socom proven SCAR rifle.
4. But what the hell do i know!!!!!!!
No Bananas
04-04-10, 17:57
So. Now that they are available does anybody have one? Range report?
Why does everyone blame shrubmaster for this fiasco? Seems to me magpul has screwed this up from the get go, they only had bushy/remy build the metal parts of this gun, assemble and distribute it.
Based on...?
-B
ForTehNguyen
04-04-10, 18:42
So. Now that they are available does anybody have one? Range report?
only detailed review I know of:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=28&t=187779
FPembleton
04-04-10, 21:38
only detailed review I know of:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=28&t=187779
Would be nice to see a review that's more objective, and not a part of Bushmaster's industry forum...
Eddiesketti
04-04-10, 23:06
There is an article in the Guns and Ammo Combat Arms 2010 magazine.
ForTehNguyen
04-04-10, 23:22
Would be nice to see a review that's more objective, and not a part of Bushmaster's industry forum...
the guy doing the review is an FFL dealer that bought one for himself
Sierrahotel83
04-05-10, 02:07
Wow that was the longest time I have ever spent on TOS at one time if not at all... but it was a good write up... is it just me or is this site easier to read on...:D
ForTehNguyen
04-06-10, 18:20
i went to Barnes and Nobles and read the July 2010 isue of Combat Arms and they had the ACR review. They did a 1000 round test with various cartridges, Mk262 was one of them, mostly the heavier grain stuff. No failures with Pmag or Bravo Company USGI mags, had a couple BOB failures with Tangodown and HK mags. They fired about 500 rounds an hour varying shooting speeds each mag. They said at the end of the article they requested 10,000 rounds from Remington to do a harder test and Remmy agreed, so that test is coming in a few months. Overall they really liked the ACR.
ForTehNguyen
04-07-10, 21:14
I took the liberty to purchase and scan the Combat Arms July 2010 review of the ACR. Attaching them shrunk them down from the original size hopefully not too hard to read.
I would appreciate it if you want to post this elsewhere to host it on your own so my bandwidth doesnt get hammered.
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/413fbc6c.jpghttp://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/ea2da5d8.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/034e7155.jpghttp://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/2936fd32.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/8f30ff27.jpghttp://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/49b132ad.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/5bc712d5.jpghttp://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/48e3ea4a.jpg
I like what I've seen thus far with the ACR. I don't think the quick change barrel will appeal to many but it's a nice feature that may work against ultimate precision (but it ain't a bolt gun any way...).
From an engineering design perspective it is my favorite rifle today. Yes, it's a little heavy and, yes, it's plenty expensive (MSRP comparisons) and, no, I probably won't purchase one - though I already dreamed I had several...
Did I read the article right to understand that Remington is actually going
to release a version to Civvies? Not just Bushmaster.....
T
FPembleton
04-16-10, 18:01
Did I read the article right to understand that Remington is actually going
to release a version to Civvies? Not just Bushmaster.....
T
I think that's wishful thinking, but I don't think the situation has changed any.
I think that's wishful thinking, but I don't think the situation has changed any.
Yeah but read the paragraph on page 10 under The Rifle..... in bold.
"The rifle that I received for testing.... It was exactly like th rifle that will soon
be available to the pubic......"
FPembleton
04-17-10, 00:47
Yeah but read the paragraph on page 10 under The Rifle..... in bold.
"The rifle that I received for testing.... It was exactly like th rifle that will soon
be available to the pubic......"
Yes, but he mentions it is the "enhanced" civilian version. Other than the Remington Military promo photos that we've all seen before, there are pictures of what I assume to be the author with the "enhanced" model with the ghetto Bushmaster rail. This is different from the Remington Military 5 sided rail.
Yes, but he mentions it is the "enhanced" civilian version. Other than the Remington Military promo photos that we've all seen before, there are pictures of what I assume to be the author with the "enhanced" model with the ghetto Bushmaster rail. This is different from the Remington Military 5 sided rail.
I see where he says its "enhanced". But I still hold out hope for
a Remington rifle. Look at the end with the specs and it lists a 10.5"
a 14.5" and a 16.5".... The only reason for a 16.5" could... and could be
a Civvie version. Heck, weld me a brake on the 14.5" and I would be giddy.
T
ForTehNguyen
04-20-10, 20:38
American Rifleman magazine came in and has an ACR review, I'll read it in a bit
ForTehNguyen
04-20-10, 22:31
Here is the American Rifle article. Says Enhanced comes with some Blue Force Tactical 2 Point sling, never heard that before. Also said it retains zero after barrel swap, some current owners experiences say this isnt so.
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/7d12303d.jpghttp://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/d99a6000.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/ae189919.jpghttp://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/80a88313.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/fe5936db.jpghttp://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm49/PreludePowerR/Firearms/88f6fd9d.jpg
I am interested in how the Remington version turns out.
I really don't like the look of the m4 cut barrel on the Bushmaster version. Kinda petty I know.
:)
ForTehNguyen
04-21-10, 08:54
i read the AR15 review thread RTZ test, and the owner says it indeed returns to zero, if you mark the gun so you know how much to tighten the barrel down to on your original zero. (2nd post of page 12)
ForTehNguyen
04-22-10, 20:23
$2300 with 1000rnds of PMC
http://sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/semi4sale.cgi?read=228536
keep waiting its gonna keep falling
I read the article in American Rifleman today on the ACR. They stated that Bushmaster will do civilian and state/local LE sales and Remington will handle military, export and federal LE sales. Makes me wonder if civies will eventually be able to get the Remington make similar to how Colt 6920s can now be had by anyone.
variablebinary
04-23-10, 02:05
I read the article in American Rifleman today on the ACR. They stated that Bushmaster will do civilian and state/local LE sales and Remington will handle military, export and federal LE sales. Makes me wonder if civies will eventually be able to get the Remington make similar to how Colt 6920s can now be had by anyone.
That's a business decision that wont be taken lightly.
Obviously a Remington model has potential to cannibalize Bushmaster ACR sales if they both sell the same product.
Then there is the question of whether there is enough demand to support a Remington ACR and a Bushmaster ACR.
The Remington model will most likely be much more expensive as well
That's a business decision that wont be taken lightly.
Obviously a Remington model has potential to cannibalize Bushmaster ACR sales if they both sell the same product.
Then there is the question of whether there is enough demand to support a Remington ACR and a Bushmaster ACR.
The Remington model will most likely be much more expensive as well
I agree. And I also mis-spoke, the article did not specifically say anything about exports. I probably got the article mixed up with Colt's receiver stamp concerning exports. They say memory is the first thing to go:p But I would assume Rem. would most likely be involved with export sales but who knows. Both the Rem. and BM are supposed to make the ACRs to the same specifications, lets hope so. I, and I think many others as well, are a little concerned with BM's past quality record, being involved in ACR production. I would love to see several members do an AAR for an ACR after using one in a seriously high round count carbine class. I would also like to learn more about the barrel's new finish/coating in place of chrome lining. I'll keep an eye on the ACR, I think it has good potential.
I have just one question for the guys at Remington/Bushmaster: why is it the "Enhanced" model have a shortened forearm??? Why not maintain the longer one (unless it's a mass/weight distribution thing)?
ForTehNguyen
04-24-10, 22:54
$2125 at Buds:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/62888
variablebinary
04-24-10, 23:25
I have just one question for the guys at Remington/Bushmaster: why is it the "Enhanced" model have a shortened forearm??? Why not maintain the longer one (unless it's a mass/weight distribution thing)?
It's always been shorter. Even as the Masada
http://www.magpul-pts.com/pdfs/masada_technote.pdf
I have just one question for the guys at Remington/Bushmaster: why is it the "Enhanced" model have a shortened forearm??? Why not maintain the longer one (unless it's a mass/weight distribution thing)?
So far I like the forearm of the basic (polymer) and the stock of the enhanced.
Oh, I almost forgot. Another interesting tid bit that came from the NRA magazine, that Remington may develop a forged aluminum lower for the ACR.
ForTehNguyen
04-25-10, 09:47
its a magnesium/aluminum alloy to be exact, you can see it on the remingtonmilitary.com website, their PDF. You can swap out the grips on that one.
http://cdn1.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/remington_acr-tfb-tm.jpg
It's always been shorter. Even as the Masada
http://www.magpul-pts.com/pdfs/masada_technote.pdf
Yes, but "why?".
I'd also like an even longer forearm as shown in their potential 18" SPR but that would require moving/re-engineering/re-developing the gas system.
I did find this satisfying from the .pdf link, though:
Question: Can the stock plastic handguards accept rails to mount light, pressure switches and foregrips?
Answer: Yes. The handguard vent holes allow rails or accessories to be mounted at the 3, 6 and 9 o’clock positions with the use of a special flat nut.
ForTehNguyen
04-25-10, 17:24
I did find this satisfying from the .pdf link, though
ACR handguards are designed to utilize the same polymer rail sections and accessories as MOE handguards
wild_wild_wes
04-25-10, 17:52
So far I like the forearm of the basic (polymer) and the stock of the enhanced.
Yes, the fact that you can't order one configured as you wish is another in the series of bad decisions plaguing the ACR.
variablebinary
04-25-10, 22:10
ACR handguards are designed to utilize the same polymer rail sections and accessories as MOE handguards
In theory. Someone had a problem already and had to grind down the screws
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